WORLD CUP 2026: THE CONTENDERS

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1:06Jame: Hello and welcome to the Game Football Podcast from the Times and Sunday Times. This is our third special World Cup preview show and after England and Scotland, this is the rather ambitious attempt to cover the rest of the world in one massive podcast. On this episode, we'll look at the favourites, the dark horses, the newcomers and the biggest stars hoping to shine on the biggest stage. I'm Tom Clark and joining me for this jam-packed show, we have three of the top football writers from The Times who will be covering many, many stories at the World Cup. It's Tom Allnut, James Geerbrandt and Paul Hurst.

1:40Jame: Team, welcome. Are we up for the challenge? Do we think we can do this? Cover basically every team. We might not mention every team, but we're going to do it. We're going to give it a go, right? Well, your normal thing, Tom, isn't it, in the Premier League, is that you cover all clubs? We try and do all 20 on the Monday show, yeah.

1:56Tom Allnutt: So we should mention all 48, I think.

1:58Jame: At some point. In an hour. We've got to try and work it in. Tom Allnut and James Gearbant with me in the studio in London. Paul Hurst joining me down the line. I've got your kind of itineraries here. So I'm going to run through some of the teams and big moments that you're going to be following. And I'd just like a sense early on of like, what's the one team, what's the one game that you're going to that you're particularly excited about? Tom, I'll start with you. You've got some big hitters in there, some interesting clashes as well. You're at the opening game, of course, Mexico, South Africa.

2:26Jame: You've also seen Portugal, Netherlands, Egypt and Iran in there as well. Anything that you're particularly excited about before you head out?

2:33Tom Allnutt: Maybe the game I'm not going to, which is Curacao against Germany. I'm going to go to Curacao and live how the Curasauans are living their first ever World Cup. So I won't be at the match, but I'll be on a Caribbean island trying to experience what's going on there. Which sounds like a terrible gig, right?

2:50Jame: It's a tough job, really, isn't it? Honestly. James, what about you? You've got some really big, big hitters in there. Brazil, France, Erling Haaland and Norway. Some of the more interesting maybe dark horses that we'll talk about. Japan, Morocco. What's grabbing your attention?

3:05Tom Allnutt: I think I'm really excited to follow Brazil in the group stages. I think Brazil is sort of... It feels like Brazil are maybe the best nation to follow in the group stage. You know they're going to bring the colour, the noise. And I feel like Brazil, they always seem to score one goal of the tournament contender in every group stage.

3:25Jame: well hopefully it'll be Neymar James and after your brilliant piece he'll run over to the press box and go you know kind of that was for you James that was for you with a heart you know little heart celebration for getting him in there and Paul Hurst joining us down the line I could hear him scoffing in my ear Tom at the idea that you know it's a real job that you get paid for to go to a Caribbean island and watch some football but Hurstie you've got it pretty good as well yourself mate I mean yours is a slightly narrower field to answer the question what are you most excited about but you are following argentina and arguably the greatest player to have ever played the game in leonel messi so not a bad gig as well that's not a bad job yeah yeah the caribbean island aspect of tom's cell really you know that was a that was sounded quite appealing to me but but yeah no i mean argentina um leonel messi's last dance if you will you know that is that is a huge huge thing to get really excited about and you know i've covered a few of their games in the last World Cup, I did the Saudi Arabia game, which was just an incredible game to be at, and I thought at that point that they were going home, and that shows how much I know, because obviously they went on to win it, but Messi's just had such an up-and-down relationship with Argentina, with major tournaments, you know, started off so with a lot of heartbreak, and now they seem unstoppable.

4:46Jame: He's won his last three finals, so yeah, no, it's all very it's set up for him to bow out with another one. Yeah, and I think let's start there because I'd like to look at some of the big nations, some of the favourites, because they've also all got kind of big names who are, to use Herstie's phrase there, that I think a lot of people will be using, having a bit of a last dance on the biggest stage. I think there's a theme that we're going to see in this World Cup. Johnny Northcroft's actually writing a piece on this on the Times website. Herstie, coming back to you then on Argentina, what do you make of their team in terms of the research that you've been doing to prepare for the tournament.

5:20Jame: They've got some big names in there. You know, Julian Alvarez has had an amazing season for Atletico Madrid, probably playing alongside Messi at this World Cup. That's pretty strong. Enzo Fernandes and McAllister in midfield. Nico Paz is an interesting young player who might play a part. Look at the defence and you've got some familiar faces in there. Christian Romero. Tottenham fans will be fully expecting him to turn up and look like the best defender in the world as he normally does at the international stage. What are you interested about when it comes to this Argentina team? And it's just that, isn't it?

5:50It's the defence and it's the haphazard nature of it.

5:55Jame: Nico Otamendi is in contention at the World Cup at the age of 38. And I remember I thought he was given his last rites after watching him play terribly for Man City against Norwich in 2019. But he's somehow clung on in there and he's part of this squad. and Tagliafico left back as well. I think he's 33 and I've never really been convinced by him either. But this is what Scaloni does. He sticks to the players that he knows the best. He thinks that they've got a great camaraderie, which is one of the reasons why they won it last time. They didn't have the best team last time, but they won it. And that happens, doesn't it, in World Cups?

6:40Jame: It's often the best tourist, the best group, the best bunch of players in terms of a squad that get you over the line. And he's gone for the same this time. I think there's only 16 survivors from the last World Cup. And if you look at the team, there's probably only going to be one change, really. That's for Angel Di Maria, who's retired since the last tournament. So in terms of the squad, he's stuck with the same names from last time. And, you know, that's his formula. So he thinks that's good enough to win it. Yeah, really interesting, isn't it? And Hurstie remembering that Saudi Arabia defeat, chaps, and talking about this squad in this way of where maybe European viewers will look at it and go, well, you know, Messi, obviously a great, Alvarez, brilliant, but don't know about the rest of it.

7:33Jame: They're in a group with Algeria, Austria and Jordan. You'd expect Argentina to win that group. and it perfectly encapsulates how fascinating these tournaments can be. They could slip up against one of those sides, but then still make the final as they did last time, Tom.

7:45Tom Allnutt: Yeah, I think Messi's a really interesting case because if you think about it, this is kind of the first World Cup that he's played with without pressure, like probably for 20 years since his first one in 2006 when he came in and he was just kind of a kid and everyone was like, wow, this guy is sensational. But equally, there wasn't that sort of weight on his shoulders. He must win the World Cup, which basically happened to Messi in every other major tournament ever since. And this one, he goes into it, I wouldn't say with nothing to lose, but it'll be interesting to see how we see Messi playing without that kind of pressure.

8:15Tom Allnutt: And also, I think Argentina without that kind of pressure, because that pressure has completely dominated the Argentinian team for the best part of two decades. And this time they go into the tournament. I quite like the way that Scaloni, I think, said, you know, we're not going to win the World Cup, we're going to defend it. You know, almost as if there's this idea that this is our tournament now and we can have that kind of confidence and play with that sort of freedom. So I'm looking forward to seeing Argentina. I completely agree with Herstie. I think one of their biggest advantages, if you look at a lot of the major teams, Brazil, France, even England, you might say, there's quite a lot of Germany, a lot of upheaval, a lot of question marks about who's playing where, the system, how does this fit in?

8:48Tom Allnutt: Actually, Argentina kind of know what they're about. Whether or not it's good enough, I don't look at their team on paper and think they have the best team, maybe, but they know what they're about. They know what their best eight or nine players are. They know the system. They know the manager. And I think in a World Cup like this, that's a big advantage.

9:03Jame: James, thoughts on Argentina as well and potentially bring in Brazil, because there's kind of similarities, aren't there, with some of their team in terms of looking at the strengths that they've got in there and then some other areas of the team where maybe we would look at it as Premier League fans and go, well, maybe that's not as strong. But the Brazil 11, Alisson, Gabriel, Marquinhos at centre-back, Guimares, Casemiro in midfield coming off the back of an amazing season for Manchester United. And then any one of these forwards, Hendrick, Gabriel Martinelli, Igor Thiago, an amazing season, Cunha, Neymar, Ryan, Vinicius Jr.

9:35Jame: It's pretty good.

9:36Tom Allnutt: Yeah, Brazil are an interesting case because I think if you look at it through the sort of prism of Brazilian teams through history, I think everyone would say this is not a vintage Brazilian side. I think that's the answer that you get when you talk to Brazilian people. But when you actually look at the team, you're looking at, you know, probably five pretty undisputed world-class players in Alisson, Marquinhos, Gabriel Magalais and Rafinha and Vinicius. And the other members of the team, you've got players who have had a pretty good Premier League season. We think maybe Cunha may start potentially.

10:21Tom Allnutt: Potentially Bruno Guimaraes could start as well. A big weakness for Brazil in a kind of interesting area where they've traditionally been extremely strong is fullback. They've always had world-class fullbacks, it seems, and this is a moment where they really don't. So it's going to be interesting to see who plays in those spots and how that affects them. But I mean, I think they're still one of the teams that certainly could win it, I think.

10:49Jame: Yeah, and in Group C with Scotland, Morocco and Haiti. For all of us, I think for both teams, as we've started with them, They are just so iconic with the World Cup. I mean, for European football fans, for English fans, great kits. You know, it's just the definitive World Cup moment, isn't it? Seeing Argentina and Brazil. How important is it, do you think, for the World Cup, for it to be a great World Cup, to have either Argentina or Brazil potentially both doing well? Tom, I'll start with you.

11:17Tom Allnutt: Yeah, it's a good point. I mean, I think, you know, Brazil, it's funny, isn't it? Because I think in, you know, the last 20 years, Brazil are not the team that haven't won all the tournaments, right? There was a time when Brazil, you'd go into every World Cup and people would be like, Brazil are the favorites. That's not the case anymore. They're not this kind of team who have won everything in the last 10, 15 years. But they still sort of stir the emotions, I think, more than any other team. If I think of a World Cup, and even in this kind of age where you know all the players and you know all the teams, I mean, maybe not in this World Cup.

11:46Tom Allnutt: There are so many, right? But in general, I still think Brazil has that romance. If you say to me, in three seconds, what is the World Cup? You think Brazil. You think the yellow shirts, the fans. the blue and green, that is what it's all about. And I think you're right. I think for a real sort of excellent World Cup, I think you need Brazil to go far. And I think one, you know, James has said about the players, but I think Ancelotti is a really interesting story, this World Cup. You know, how does that work? You know, Brazil having a European manager, a very sort of European team, you know, nearly all of their players playing in Europe.

12:18Tom Allnutt: More and more, I think almost the sort of soul of Brazilian football is becoming quite European. You look in the sort of Brazilian league, some of the best coaches are sort of from Portugal and even the Brazilian clubs are sort of adopting European methods, you know, because of the way they're sort of selling players to sort of basically funneling them to kind of European teams for huge fees. And now the very top of the game, you've got Ancelotti, you know, the kind of like benchmark European-Italian tactician. You know, how does that marry up? You know, and obviously we think of Ancelotti as such a brilliant tournament manager, managing the egos, managing the players.

12:46Tom Allnutt: But can he do it, you know, on a non-club stage? I think that's a great story.

12:50Jame: Yeah. Hirstie, I want to come back to you on two points that guys have mentioned in the studio. Firstly on Argentina and pressure. Tom's suggesting there that for Lionel Messi and for the nation itself, being the holders means pressure off. I'd slightly wonder whether actually it just piles a different type of pressure on to deliver the same joy and euphoria of last time. What do you think? I agree with Tom. I think he's quite... Certainly in terms of the whole squad, they seem very relaxed and very at ease with the fact that they are champions. and I think it is more or less a free hit for them.

13:25I don't think anyone, you know,

13:27Jame: there's not that much pressure on them really. I think there was certainly from, I remember going back to the last World Cup and thinking, you know, it's really kind of, Messi was really under the cosh then to be Maradona, you know, to be the kind of guy who led Argentina to glory glory and in a world cup and be there almost be like the personality as well but that's not him he's he's more of a more of a you know a restrained guy more of a quiet more of a shy guy so i don't think he would ever kind of we would ever get him to say that that he was under pressure but i bet on you know in his heart of hearts he probably was really really under pressure um to to kind of be the new Maradona and sort of deliver on that.

14:16Jame: And he has done in the last three finals. As I said earlier, they'll cup America and World Cup and they cup America again. So I think they're in that groove now of being happy, being comfortable with that tag of being one of their favourites. And like Tom says, they're defending the trophy rather than actually going to win it. They think it's theirs to lose, basically. Yeah, interesting. And just quickly on the Brazilian aspect, we mentioned Casemiro, Mateus Cunha, James picked him out there. Both had very strong finishes to the season with Manchester United. You, of course, cover both Manchester clubs for us.

14:53Jame: That plays a big part in Ancelotti and what he can deliver at this tournament. If you think about maybe nine months ago, the idea of Casemiro going into a World Cup, we would all maybe be disparaging and going, well, they've got no chance. Now they've got the guy who looks absolutely amazing and all Man United fans are thinking, why the hell have we let this guy go? Yeah, well, yeah certainly a year ago you'd have put more money on Toby Collier going to the World Cup than given how he was treated at United but yeah, I mean, the fact that he had at least the United had one fixture a week helped him Casemiro, I don't think he'd be in a position to play every three days, which is why they've released him this summer but then again, this World Cup and how it is the format of it, he doesn't have to play all the three games in the group stages.

15:42Jame: Why does he have to play against Haiti? He could rotate the complete 11 for Haiti and win. And even if they come out of the groups with six points, they're probably going to top the group. I think that would be an interesting factor at this World Cup where how much teams will rotate just because of the sheer length of the tournament. Some of these squads could be away together for six, seven weeks. So you've got to keep everyone happy, keep everyone content.

16:15Tom Allnutt: I think that's such a good point that Hurstie raises. And it's something that we've really seen in club football this season, particularly with Paris Saint-Germain and looking at how few minutes the likes of Mourquinhos and Nuno Mendes played in the domestic league. as Paul says, not only do you have the heat in the USA, the fact that it's at the end of a very long season, the fact that there's going to be one extra round compared to previous tournaments, but also I think the comparative weakness of some of the groups. You mentioned Argentina's group, for example.

16:54Jame: Yeah.

16:55Tom Allnutt: I think affords an opportunity to potentially do a bit more rotation without... I mean, the margins for a World Cup are always small, right? But I think they're a little bit more maybe this time than they were before. So I think there's maybe just a bit more of an opportunity to...

17:17Jame: With those third place teams as well, as we obviously know, getting a chance to go through to the knockout stages. Mentioning squad strength and rotation, I think, is a good way of bringing in two other teams, two of the bigger teams, two of the favourites. France, of course, beaten by Argentina in the final last time. I mean, looking at their squad, goodness me, absolutely remarkable. I mean, I've got a kind of random 11 here selected. But, you know, Mainon in goal, Koundé, Saliba, Upamecano, Hernandez potentially at left back, Chouameni, Rabiot, and then a potential front four of Alise, Cherki, Dembele, Mbappe.

17:53Jame: I mean, absolutely average. Yeah. I mean, they could have a backup front four of Barcola, Douay, Turam and Zaire Emery. I mean, that is absolutely extraordinary. And I mean, I wanted to bring Portugal in here as well, because we mentioned a lot on this show the strength of Arsenal this season, and they've got the best squad. They've got the best squad in the league. They've got the best squad in Europe. Portugal are being widely touted as having the best squad of all the European elite teams. I mean, you know, they've got a lot of PSG styles in there. When you've got a midfield of Fettinha and João Neves, We'll come on to the Ronaldo question in a minute.

18:27Jame: How are we looking at France and Portugal? James, you're going to be covering some France games. But Tom, I'll start with you on Portugal because they're a fascinating team, aren't they? Not just the Ronaldo question, but they're packed with talent. Cancelo, Diaz, Mendes, Vitinha, Jaunevez, Bruno Fernandes off the back of the best season of his life. Rafael Leal, Pedro Neto. It's a brilliant squad. And then they've got this focal point at the top who might not do any running about. and might burst into tears if he misses a penalty. But he can score. Yeah.

18:57Tom Allnutt: I think you always get to this point before, and I do anyway, like before a World Cup where no one's really thought about Portugal. And then a couple of weeks before, you sort of look at some predicted lineups and you think, actually, that Portugal team is pretty good. That looks better than anyone's. And I think at this World Cup, I wonder with the heat whether the midfield is going to be so key to so many games. And I don't look at many midfields and think that they're better than Portugal's. I think that, I mean, you didn't mention Bernardo Silva, for example, who's had such a fantastic season for City.

19:23Tom Allnutt: And I think in these kind of games where it could be about control and tempo, even if he doesn't start bringing on Bernardo for the last 30 minutes, what a luxury that is. Run around and kick a few people, win a few free kicks. Yeah, and keep the ball a bit as well. So I really like Portugal. But in truth, I'm doing a piece about Portugal next week, so I spoke to a couple of people about them, and they're not that optimistic there. People there are sort of slightly down, I think, on their chances, in part because there's sort of a belief that Roberto Martinez is not picking necessarily the best team.

19:53Tom Allnutt: He's kind of picking the big names and Ronaldo's part of that. I think, you know, Jao Felix, for example, is one of his favourites as well. So whether or not they can kind of find that cohesion, I don't know. But I look at the midfield particularly and I think that gives them a great chance.

20:07Jame: Who would the kind of counter to Ronaldo be? You know, you've got Ramos, Geddes on the bench. Would it be Ramos from PSG?

20:14Tom Allnutt: I think Ramos is the main alternative. you could play two of them perhaps in the group stage together so you have one who kind of you do the running and I'll do the scoring but I think instead of just apart from just Ramos as an alternative it's almost like an alternative way of playing it's almost like we could have three players who are younger who can run and press and we have a midfield who's a bit more sort of statesman like where we keep the ball but obviously with Ronaldo we all know there's a way of playing that you have to basically create around him and I think that's what Martinez is going to go with

20:42Jame: James, on France just absolutely packed with world-class talent. I mentioned those kind of two options in forward areas. In terms of mentioning kind of easier groups for some of these bigger teams, that's maybe one of the more difficult ones. I think Senegal and Norway will give them really good games. But France have got to be expecting to get to a final again in terms of, we've already talked about Argentina and expectations. There'll be huge expectation on this France group, won't there?

21:06Tom Allnutt: Yeah, they will be expecting to get to the final, I think. I think, as we've said, I think in terms of the individual calibre of the players within the squad, I think it's probably the best squad of the tournament, really. I mean, they're a fascinating team in many ways because obviously at times in the Deschamps era, which has been, you know, sort of pan out and it's really been an extremely successful era with, you know, one World Cup and two other major finals. But at times in the last major tournament of the Euros, they looked incredibly, I think, limited is the right word. It was just, you know, that kind of remarkable stat that they reached the semifinals without having scored other than a penalty or an own goal in any of the first five rounds.

22:01Tom Allnutt: And, you know, through qualifying, again, they sort of haven't looked, they didn't really blow teams away. They had a 2-2 draw against Iceland. But I think they will be formidable. I think they won't, again, I think they won't necessarily, you know, win games sort of with freewheeling football that tears teams apart if, you know, what we've seen in previous tournaments is any precedent. But I think Deschamps is a manager to be, you know, hugely respected, I think. I mean, it's interesting that, you know, when we talk about the great managers in world football, Ancelotti's name would always come up.

22:43Tom Allnutt: And I think Didier Deschamps' name is very rarely in that conversation.

22:47Jame: Is that because of style then, do you think?

22:49Tom Allnutt: Well, I think it's probably because of style. But if you look at, he's a man who's had four jobs in management and really has succeeded in all of them. You know, taking Monaco to a Champions League final, getting Juventus promoted back into Serie A after the Carchiopoli scandal, winning Ligue 1 with Marseille. and then with France, he's been very successful, it has to be said.

23:09Jame: Is that style then their only potential weakness? Do they have a weakness in the team? Do you think there's a weak area of the pitch? I mean, there doesn't seem to be one to me.

23:18Tom Allnutt: I think if you just look at the team on paper, I think you probably are looking at that midfield pivot, which we're expecting to probably be Tchermaini and Rabiot. and you're probably thinking that that is the weaker part of the team, two very good players, of course. Is their style a weakness? I suppose so in some ways. They can appear to be incredibly conservative at times, but it's an approach that has brought them a lot of success, also has to be said. And they also do just have, of course, they have moments where, I remember the semi-final that they played against Spain at the Euros and where France took the lead and obviously Spain ultimately came back to win that game, courtesy of the brilliant match-changing equaliser by Jamal.

24:19Tom Allnutt: But before that equaliser, when it was 1-0 to France, Spain were actually hanging on at times a little bit in that game. And so I think they will have moments when that incredible power that they have will be hard to resist.

24:35Jame: Yeah, you mentioned Spain there. I want to come and bring them in in just a second. And Tom, I'll come back to you. But, Hirstie, just any strong thoughts on France or Portugal? Of course, I'm sure you'll probably pack your Bernardo Silva fan club T-shirt for this tournament. Make sure you'll be proudly wearing that. Bruno Fernandes, of course, again, another player at Manchester United who goes into this tournament in brilliant form. Any thoughts on Portugal or France from you? Yeah, I was very annoyed that you didn't mention Bernardo in that Portugal. First name on the team sheet every day. But yeah, in all seriousness, that is an amazing squad that the Portals have got up until you get to the 41-year-old baby up front.

25:15Jame: I did quite a lot of Portugal games in the last Euros, and he just stung the tournament out really for me. I just think it got to that point where everyone, you know, you'll never get a Portuguese player criticising Ronaldo. You know, they'll say, oh, a great trainer, you know, ultimate professional. But they surely must think in their heart of hearts that if he wasn't in this team, that we could play in a different way. Like Tom said, you know, they could have a more dynamic way of playing. They could be a better pressing team. And, you know, I just think it's that last World Cup where he was finally dropped and they played Gonzalo Gramos in the game against Switzerland and they won 6-3 or 6-2, I think it was, was just like epitomised Portugal.

26:05Jame: that could have been the team that went on to win that World Cup if they had kept Ronaldo out of the team, but they didn't. He holds so much sway over the Portugal, you know, over the nation, basically, over the squad and the actual country as well, that no one's really scared, you know, no one's really got the gumption to say, come on, mate, isn't it about time you, you know, shuffled off? you know isn't it about the time you went and retired you have to be a very brave person to do that obviously Roberto Martinez is not the guy to do that I just think it is you end up with the possibility of wasting a huge opportunity to win a major trophy I know they won the Nations League but you know not the same is it but I just think if Ronaldo plays as badly as he did during the Euros at the World Cup I just don't think he can come away from that with any other feeling than, you know, this should be the time for me to move on.

27:10Jame: Yeah, Tom, you wanted to come in before.

27:12Tom Allnutt: I like Kirsty telling one of the, you know, arguably the greatest player in the game to shuffle off.

27:17Jame: He made his time. Come on.

27:20Tom Allnutt: I feel like he's been influenced by his time covering May United. I do think if I could offer just the slight flip side of Ronaldo, and I don't disagree with a lot of those points, But I think it's funny because, you know, in the previous World Cup, there was such a kind of collective wave for Messi to win it, right? And everyone, I think, as a neutral, sort of wanted Messi to have that on his CV and for that kind of circle to be completed. And if people don't have the same thing with Ronaldo, there is part of me, I've got to say, that I know all the histrionics. I know all the sort of, you know, the baby stuff.

27:49Tom Allnutt: And that is completely true. I know Messi is so much, such an easier kind of person to kind of get behind. Yeah. But I think it would be great if Ronaldo won a World Cup. There would be something for me that like, what is he, 41 now? If he went away, almost like his kind of last thing was just to kind of have one last pushback against Messi and say, you thought you got it, but you haven't. And I would love that. And I know it's not the kind of, but he's one of the greats of the game. And when he leaves, the next World Cup, we assume he won't be there, you know, maybe at 45. He will, he won't be there.

28:22Tom Allnutt: You know, maybe we'll miss him.

28:23Jame: Maybe we'll be thinking, he was one of the greats.

28:26Tom Allnutt: Maybe we did tell him to shuffle off a bit too quickly. I think it would be, if he went all the way to the final and won it, I think it would be fantastic.

28:33Jame: You know what you need to do if you're in a press conference for Portugal, Tom. You just be like, not me, Mr Cristiano, but my friend Paul Hurst thinks we should jog on. There's a tantalising prospect. I wanted to bring in some of the other big nations as well. We're talking about huge stars who've established themselves in the game. Let's talk about Spain and Laminya Mal, one of the future stars, current stars of the game, Tom. Again, it's another really strong team and another team like France that I think a lot of people are thinking, will we get France or Spain in the final? They're in Group H with Uruguay and Saudi Arabia and Cape Verde.

29:07Jame: So again, another kind of group where you're expecting them to be able to rotate to win the group comfortably. But it's another hugely strong team. Unai Simon or David Rea in goal. Poro, Kubasi, I think, probably playing at centre-back. Maybe Llorente, Kukurea, Gavi, Fabian Ruiz, who we all fell in love with at the Euros last time, potentially Danny Almo and then Jamal and Williams on the wings was the kind of thing that propelled them to the European Championships last time. How are Spain looking at themselves, I think is a good question because we've talked about that with some other nations.

29:40Tom Allnutt: I think they're confident. I do think they're right in there, in the mix to win it again. If you look at sort of the pedigree of the Spain team, won the Nations League, I think, in 23. I sort of forget about all these tournaments. But then obviously won the Euros, lost to Portugal in the final, I think, in 25, the Nations League. So we could be talking here about a team who are going into the World Cup, having won their last three international tournaments, as it were. I think there are question marks. Williams, for example, was so important in the last one. It was all about the two wingers, Lamine and Williams, right?

30:11Tom Allnutt: But actually, Nika Williams has had a pretty rubbishy season, really affected by injury. His form has been quite poor. So they have to sort of find a solution there. The experience, the kind of like captain's triumvirate of sort of Rodri, Morata and Carvajal. Well, Carvajal and Morata are not in the squad now. So it feels like a slightly sort of younger team without the kind of traditional captains. Rodri has obviously had a bit of an in and out season for City in terms of injury.

30:32Jame: Yeah.

30:34Tom Allnutt: But I do think if I kind of come back to that point about, you know, we talk so much about England. And I know that, you know, all the kind of debate about where England are. But I always think at the end of a World Cup when England lose, you sort of think, who could keep the ball for England? They never have that pivot player who can keep the ball. In a major tournament, they always get outpassed and outplayed in the end by someone better. And you think about Spain, you didn't mention Pedri there, who I think is probably, arguably, perhaps the best player in the world at the moment. And if you go into a tournament with someone like him who can just run a game for you and keep everything ticking over, and that's before you even talk about Rodri and Zubimendi, you've got a midfield three there, and probably not all three of them are going to start, but players who can just keep the ball.

31:17Tom Allnutt: And I think in a tournament like this, I think that's going to be so important. And yes, Lamine is the X factor, right? And he's coming in the question mark as well because he picked up a hamstring injury in April. I think Luis de la Fuente said yesterday that he looks like he's going to be fit to start. He doesn't need to, does he, really? In the first two or three games, they can probably ease him in. But he's the X factor they have. And I think if we looked back over the last kind of 10 years, Bain always had good passes. But what Lamine gives them is someone who can beat you, who can go past you one-on-one and score.

31:48Tom Allnutt: He could be the big star of this tournament, right?

31:50Jame: Yeah, absolutely. Speaking of strong teams with some potential question marks, James, I wanted to ask you about Germany. Absolutely fascinated by them. We've got Konstantin Ekner working on a piece which I set in the challenge of the big mystery, how good are Germany? I'm not sure we know the answer to that question, partly because of their team. Fascinating to see Manuel Neuer recalled in a very England of 20 years ago, panic move with the squad announcement. We thought he'd quit. We thought he'd left. Coming back in, he's two years older than the manager, Julian Nagelsmann. They've got some good players in there.

32:21Jame: They've got some very talented young players in there. Musiala as well is obviously very established. Lennart Karl. But I look at their team and don't necessarily think, wow, would that be fair?

32:31Tom Allnutt: So I think with Germany, just to sort of go back over the last kind of 10 years of the German national team, Germany, I think, were genuinely quite bad between sort of 2016 maybe up until about 2021, 2022. They had five, six years really in the doldrums. I think at the last two major tournaments, they've actually played quite well, but just sort of fallen on the wrong side of the margins, if you like. I mean, at the 2022 World Cup, they had this incredible statistic that if you look to all the teams at the end of the group stage, ranked by expected goal difference, Germany were top out of all 32 teams.

33:14Tom Allnutt: And of course, they'd been knocked out. Wow. Just because they, you know, that's sometimes how tournament football is. And then again, at the last Euros, I actually felt Germany, when they played Spain in that quarterfinal, I felt at that point, it was a meeting of the best two teams in the tournament. And so you're kind of looking for them to, you've kind of been looking for them to kick on under Julian Nagelsmann, who, as we know, is a very highly rated for a kind of tactically intellectual type of manager. but it hasn't really quite happened over this kind of qualification cycle. There's still a feeling, I think, that Nagelsmann, you know, hasn't quite, you know, got the most out of the squad or kind of, you know, hit.

33:52Tom Allnutt: He's not maybe doing his own, his best work of his career yet. And I also think if you look at the squad, the squad is just not quite as good as the one they've taken for the last two major tournaments. you had a real loss of class and intelligence and experience with Toni Kroos, Ilkay Gundogan, Lighe Ressane is no longer there, Thomas Müller is no longer there. A huge kind of loss of some really big figures in German football. So I think, to me, they don't belong to that real group of favourites to win the tournament.

34:30Jame: Yeah, interesting. We're going to talk about Netherlands in the second half of the show because I'm absolutely fascinated by their group, Group F, Japan, Netherlands, Sweden and Tunisia. But coming back to some of these big teams we've talked about, I think we've kind of covered the favourites, not including England, of course. There is that already preview show in the game feed as well. Just to kind of wrap up this part one, if you were picking a team to either win or two teams to get to the final, where are we looking over the ones we've mentioned? And it can be a surprise package. It can be the very conventional straight down the line.

34:58Jame: It'll be France. Hersty, I'm going to start with you on this one. Yeah, I think France that team you read out earlier is just incredible I agree maybe Rabiot's not the best midfielder in the world but again it comes back to what James was saying about Deschamps and about the managers knowing what works best for them and what works best for them over a long period of time and I think Elisa is one of my favourite players of the season and I just think he's an outstanding player, very, very skilful, very direct. And I just think he'll be, you know, the tournament's kind of set up for him to shine, I think, like Lillie.

35:43Jame: And then, just speaking from a personal perspective, I've seen a lot of Ryan Cherky in the second half of the season and he's just grown with confidence. I mean, he didn't lack confidence to start off with, obviously, but he's just kind of gone through the roof in the second half of the season. and he's such a real kind of tallies, but a real, you know, a flair player who can pull a trick out of nowhere. And I just, I'm really looking forward to seeing if he can do it on the international stage as well. Yeah. Tom?

36:13Tom Allnutt: I think Spain. Slightly boring choice, isn't it? But I just think they've got a settled team. They've got a nice mix of youngsters, people who can pass. I think they'll go far. It feels like, you know, this tournament, what's that stat? the European teams don't win in South America or North America. Yeah, true. Isn't that right? But I feel like Spain have a sort of South American style about them anyway. So I think they'll do well. Yeah. James, thoughts? I think maybe I could see Brazil winning it under, I mean, under Ansholte's management, I think, you know, it's maybe their time. I think it's been 24 years since their last World Cup triumph.

36:58Tom Allnutt: I think if I was ranking the teams by strength, I don't think I'd have Brazil at the top. I think I probably would have France, Spain. It's the two strongest teams, but I just have a feeling for Brazil.

37:10Jame: Yeah, interesting. I think Portugal could be a contender. Just to finish then, we've mentioned so many big names. I've barely mentioned a bloke called Kylian Mbappe, of course. He's quite good. He did all right at the last World Cup. But Jamal, Mbappe, Messi, Ronaldo, Neymar. Which of these players do you think are going to have the biggest influence? And it can be an influence in any way. I'm going to leave it broad. I'm not going to ask you who is going to be the best player, who's going to be the top scorer. But who do you think is going to maybe make the most headlines of all these big players?

37:37Jame: Tom, I'll start with you.

37:39Tom Allnutt: I mean, if I could push back a little bit on France, I don't know, there's no logic to it, but I sort of wonder if, I know they've got an amazing team, but it just feels like, I think one of their biggest problems is finding the best position for Dembele and Mbappe. Because they haven't quite got this mix in the front three where who's playing down the middle? Who's playing off the left? Who's the guy who sort of scores goals and who's the one we kind of give the freedom to? And Mbappe has had such a weird season. Like he's had such a turbulent time at Real Madrid with the injury, with that weird petition where like millions of people said they didn't want him to play at Real Madrid.

38:09Tom Allnutt: He was like on holiday with his girlfriend and everyone went absolutely nuts about it before the Clásico, right? Like he's had a really tough season despite scoring a lot of goals. It just feels like to me, he's coming into a tournament where he's got a lot of kind of emotional baggage. And I just wonder if it's the kind of, where it doesn't quite work, you know? And we might see this France team slightly surprised in not a good way. It's a very interesting dynamic for Deschamps to navigate because you've got Dembele, a guy who is coming off the back of two Champions Leagues. There's a stat which has been doing the rounds.

38:44Tom Allnutt: And the Ballon d 'Or, of course. Which is that no one has ever won two World Cups, two Ballon d 'Or and two Champions Leagues because Ousmane Dembele be the guy. You know, maybe he could. But so you've got Usman Dembele, a guy who's won the last two Champions Leagues, had, you know, two better seasons at club level than Mbappe, really. And is, you know, a more hardworking player. And then you've got Mbappe on the other hand. And it sort of feels like, well, you know, Dembele should kind of have, you know, maybe it's the role, you know, it feels like the team maybe should be geared around Dembele's strengths.

39:17Tom Allnutt: He's the man in form. But the problem is Kylian Mbappe, for his work in a France shirt kind of has to be top dog. You know, if somebody said to you, pick the top 10 international footballers of all time, Mbappe would have to be in the conversation. You'd have to consider him. That's how good his international career has been for France. Whatever his shortcomings at club level, he kind of has to be top dog. So I think that's a fascinating little dynamic

39:51Jame: In terms of potentially making headlines, if you don't say Neymar to the answer to this question after your brilliant piece, then quite frankly, what are you even doing here? But any players that you think could grab the headlines in a positive or negative way?

40:00Tom Allnutt: I think Neymar definitely will be at the centre of something. Whether he doesn't play because he's injured and there does indeed seem to be a little bit of a cloud over how much part he can play in the group stage. whether you know he'll fall out with Ancelotti whether he'll you know let's be you know let's be fair he's a brilliant player with an incredible record at international level whether he does come into the team and has a real say for this Brazil team you know he's really he's really

40:32Jame: pushing this isn't he Tom and Hurst he's really making sure that you know final final of the World Cup Brazil are there all the great names and somewhere there's just this bloke and everyone's Who the hell is that? It's James Geerbrand in there with Neymar side by side, the bloke who made it happen. Hersey, just wrapping us up on that big name point, just before we go to a much-needed break. We've got so much to try and cover. Any of those big names, it can be for a positive or a negative reason that you think they'll steal the headlines. You have to come back to Ronaldo again. I think it's just, he is, you know, love him or hate him, he's the centre of attention.

41:08Jame: He loves being the centre of attention. and you know that is i'm not gonna i'm not gonna decry that i love that i love the fact that you know he we we've been writing about him for so long now that that it's just become you know part of a we're part of the soap opera aren't we we feel the feel the soap opera and um even though i did call him a baby earlier as you know that's um i do think that you know he is the ultimate kind of superstar in terms of the media attention and how much, you know, how much attraction he gets. You know, Donald Trump even knows who he is. So, I mean, he's got to be famous, hasn't he?

41:46Jame: So, there you go. Absolutely. Loads more still to come. In part two, a little quiz question to take us to the break. Couldn't resist. As in the 2010 World Cup, this tournament will open with Mexico v South Africa. 16 years ago, that game finished 1-0. And of course, we all remember Shabalala's goal for all of Africa. But who equalized for Mexico? Find out after the break.

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44:01Jame: Welcome back to the Game Football Podcast from The Times and Sunday Times. I'm Tom Clarke and I've got Tom Allnut, James Gibran and Paul Hurst with me for this jam-packed World Cup preview show trying to cover the rest of the world. The answer to the quiz question that took us into the break was James. Rafael Marquez. Rafael Marquez, 147 caps, five World Cups. A remarkable player for Mexico. Absolutely fascinated by Mexico at this tournament, by the way. Just a quick mention for them. one of the co-hosts of course and also three of the best kits I think you've ever seen at a World Cup lovely green white away kit and then they've just threw out a brilliant third away shirt all in black so so classy make sure you're following the Times in the coming weeks we'll be putting this show out before this weekend before the World Cup begins there's loads and loads of brilliant stuff go and buy a copy of the Times there's this brilliant brilliant guide in there as well we've got our kind of wall guides that are going out this weekend as well loads and loads of brilliant stuff we've got articles on luca modric antoine sameno fabio cannavaro spain germany cristiano ronaldo kilian mbappe loads and loads to come make sure you're following the times and all these journalists on all social media channels guys first question for part two dark horses and surprise packages because i mentioned that group uh where with holland and netherlands and japan potentially i think japan are really fascinating norway as well with Erling Haaland.

45:22Jame: Turkey. I loved Turkey at the last year. I was absolutely one of my favourite teams. I really hope they do well again. Any contenders for the dark horses or surprise packages category? Tom, I'll start with you.

45:33Tom Allnutt: I think Norway are like that team. Was it like Austria have been before? Maybe Turkey or nearly always the kind of dark horses. I think Norway, that team, and probably everyone's going to say the dark horses and they'll probably disappoint. But it looks like they've just got a lot going for them. The qualification campaign was really impressive. Obviously, it edged out Italy in that group. I think it was 8-0-0, like wins, losses, draws, which is, you know, I think they conceded five goals or something. And you look at the players they've got, obviously Haaland, Odegaard, Oskar Bob, Noosa. They've got some, you know, a really nice, talented team.

46:04Tom Allnutt: And I feel like just generally, if you think about Norwegian football, I've got a glimpse, you know, they're doing so well in Europe at the moment. They have this feeling that things are going in the right direction there. And it's a great story. They haven't been in a World Cup, I don't think, since 98, right, when they beat Brazil, I think, in that tournament. I mean, it's been a long time coming. It's a really interesting group and I think they could go well. James? For me, Norway are where Belgium were at in 2014. They've got brilliant players. They've stormed through qualifying. You look at the team and think, they could do really, really well.

46:38Tom Allnutt: But I think it matters that it's their first... Maybe it shouldn't. Maybe it shouldn't matter that it's your first major tournament. Maybe it should just be, you know, why should it matter? But I think it does. I think to come to your first major tournament as a country after literally decades without getting to a major tournament I think is really hard. I think you need to get sometimes a tournament or two under your belt before you reach your peak. A bit like where Belgium were at in 2014 where they needed a couple of tournaments before they were probably at their best of the 2018 World Cup.

47:13Tom Allnutt: My dark horses? Ecuador.

47:15Jame: Yes. Yes, Ecuador. Absolutely. Any particular reason why? Not just Moises Caicedo, of course.

47:21Tom Allnutt: I think they've got a really good team. Defence is probably their strength. They've got Hincapié, Paco of PSG, Ordonez from Club Bridges, a player I really like. And I think their results in qualifying have been hugely impressive. I think they're right up there for Dark Horses.

47:36Jame: That's a really interesting group as well, isn't it? Group E, Curaçao, Ecuador, Ivory Coast and Germany as well. It comes back to that point in part one about Germany. Like, that could be a really tricky group for them.

47:44Tom Allnutt: The other thing that's really interesting about that group is it's a group that you arguably don't want to win because the winner of that group is on course for a last 16 game, probably against France.

47:55Jame: Yeah, absolutely. Every time I've done the Times World Cup predictor, I've got Germany being knocked out by France very early on in the knockout stages. And, Hirstie, any dark horses or teams that you're particularly excited about that we've not mentioned already? Again, Norway. Harland is really up for this World Cup. We've spoken to her a couple of times this season and he mentions it. Whenever we mention the World Cup, he had that big smile and he was really really excited about it and he started to get to his best level towards the end of the season and he was also injury free in fact when Pep rested him on the last game of the season a Norwegian journalist texted me saying is there any reason why Harland's not playing he was thinking he was in the English panic

48:40Jame: so I asked he said no he's just rested and the Norwegian journalist replied, tell Pep in the press conference after thank you from the entire nation of Norway.

48:56Jame: So yeah, they're all very excited about it, Haaland in particular and like Tom was saying about Bodo, I saw them beat City earlier this season and they were just remarkable, really good. They've got three players in the squad and I just think there's a general kind of feel-good factor around them and so yeah, I quite fancy them to get through, even though it's a really, really difficult group they're in. Yeah, big character on a big stage as well. I mean, I've mentioned them already, but Japan, I think, could be a really interesting team to watch. And that group is fascinating. Group F, Netherlands, because I think we didn't mention them in part one.

49:29Jame: They've got a really strong squad. They've got another one of those squads that you look at and go, oh, good players, good players, experienced players. Should do really well, right? But then they're in a group with Tunisia. That won't be an easy game. Sweden and Graham. I mean, what a great story that is. We've not even mentioned that. Graham Potter is going to a World Cup, everybody. Remarkable, remarkable stuff. If someone had had that in the kind of guess prediction card at the start of last season, you would have been very, very impressed.

49:53Tom Allnutt: West Ham fans not particularly congratulatory, I don't think. No, I don't think so.

49:56Jame: I don't think so. But, you know, again, another interesting team and another interesting name in terms of Victor Jokerez leading the line for them. Had a strong end to the season with lots of people, including our pal Gregor Robertson, still questioning him. So that'll be fascinating too. One is to bring in the question around African nations. Senegal, we didn't mention James in that group in the conversation earlier, but a really strong team. You've got other nations as well. Morocco, Morocco, packed with brilliant star players. Ashraf Hakimi as well, in terms of listing some of the accolades that players have won.

50:31Jame: He's going into this tournament having won a brilliant, brilliant amount of trophies and hauls. What do we think of some of the African nations going into this tournament? Anyone that particularly catches your eye? James, I'll start with you.

50:43Tom Allnutt: I think Senegal look to have the strongest squad to me. So I would probably go with them, I think.

50:50Jame: Yeah, I think there's a chance that England could be meeting them at some point, isn't there, along the way, depending on your permutations, Tom?

50:56Tom Allnutt: I quite like the African teams. I think Senegal, Morocco, you know, went to the semis in Qatar.

51:01Jame: Yeah.

51:02Tom Allnutt: Even Egypt, not like a particularly sexy team, but like defend really well, really hard to beat. I think they've got quite a kind group. Like, I feel like those three teams could all do quite well. and you wonder how the African Cup Nations final would affect Morocco's Senegal. Will they both come out of it feeling like they have a point to prove? I think Morocco have had a bit more upheaval. They changed the manager. But I like them both. I think in their qualification campaign, they both look like they... Even Ivory Coast as well, I think. They've got a decent team. So I won the...

51:30Jame: I've got one of Yandy Amande as well, one of the players who's going to be hotly sought after this summer.

51:35Tom Allnutt: Yeah, exactly. So I think after a few years where maybe the African team's been slightly quieter, save Morocco, I think this could be a good World Cup for them.

51:42Jame: Yeah, Egypt as well. Mo Salah having a last dance as well. We didn't even mention him in terms of some of the older players bowing out. Hirstie, any of the teams we've mentioned there? Any of the ones you feel we've missed out? Yeah, Ivory Coast, again, like Tom said, I quite like the idea of seeing Ahmad on the big stage as well. He's one of my favourite players, really kind of a hard-working player. But yeah, Morocco, I covered Morocco quite a lot in the last World Cup and they were just a brilliant team to watch. Hakeem is probably the best right back of the world, isn't he? He's been a key player for PSG over the last couple of seasons.

52:19Jame: So really looking forward to seeing them. But yeah, I think there's quite a big selection who could go through. But yeah, I quite fancy seeing Ivory Coast do well. Yeah, Brahim Diaz as well. A fascinating angle to the Morocco situation as well. Ian Hawkey's potentially going to write a piece on them in the coming weeks. Keep an eye on the Times website. let's just run through some of the first timers. You've got Jordan, Curaçao, Cape Verde, Uzbekistan. Uzbekistan are the team for me, partly because of their manager, Fabio Cannavaro. 20 years on from lifting the World Cup, of course, with Italy.

52:49Jame: 20 years on from then winning the Ballon d 'Or. He's managing Uzbekistan. I think this has probably passed a lot of people by. What if you said Cannavaro will be at the World Cup with Uzbekistan, but not with Italy? Yeah, exactly. Well, that's the theme of a piece that Alison Rudd is going to write. You've not got Italy there. kind of a perceptive you know perception of a dearth of like managerial talent within the Italian game and you've got Cannavaro whose managerial career has included Al Nasser Guangzhou China national team a little spell at Udinese but Dinamo Zagreb and then went to Uzbekistan and takes them to a World Cup fantastic achievement and some of the other new nations that are going to be there as well whilst we're mentioning new nations I wanted to get your thoughts on the challenge that I've set myself guys I am going to try and watch every single game at this World Cup.

53:35Jame: I'm going to work through the night UK time so that I can speak to all of you from the games. And I just wanted to run through some of the thrillers that I've got to look forward to. There's a particular day that I'm excited about, June 16th into June 17th. So I'll just give you a run through here using our brilliant Times wall chart. 2 a.m. I'm going to start with Iran v New Zealand. Nice. Then I have a bit of a break. Then I come back and get France-Senegal, 8 p.m. Nice. You know, have a bit of breakfast, get ready. Wait, it's 2am and then 8pm? Yeah, so I've got a little sleep in the middle.

54:07Jame: You know, changed some nappies, had a bit of a sleep. Got up for my night shift. Start with France-Senegal. Then I've got Iraq-Norway at 11pm. Pretty good. I'll be there, I think. Yeah, absolutely. We'll be chatting, James. We will be chatting. Got to keep the vibes coming for me on that one because I've got to then stay up for Argentina-Algeria. Hersty, you're going to be there for that one as well. So you've got to help me shuffle through to 5am and Austria v Jordan. What a 24 hours that is, guys. I mean, if this job isn't a privilege, I don't know what is.

54:37Tom Allnutt: That is Pete Wellkopf, isn't it? I mean, it just doesn't get better than that. Everyone in here is laughing at me. You need France, Senegal to be good, I think. If that's a nil-nil in the middle of that, that's going to be a real morale. Exactly, exactly, yeah.

54:47Jame: And there's a few other belters as well along the way. I was showing this to my wife and she was just questioning my life choices. But we've also got New Zealand, Egypt at 2 a.m. at one point. This is maybe South Africa, South Korea, 2 a.m., pretty good. when the games start doubling up Cape Verde, Saudi Arabia is on at the same time as Uruguay, Spain, that's going to be quite tricky but I think maybe the truest test will be Jordan Algeria at 4am on June 23rd make sure you're listening to the daily podcasts from the game and see what analysis I can provide from that game loads of brilliant stuff, I'm looking forward to it, I should just mention at this point as well before we come to the end of this show we are going to be doing a special episode with Peter Rutzler.

55:29Jame: He is following Team USA throughout the tournament, so we're going to look a bit closely at the host nations. He's just on his honeymoon at the minute, so it's a decent excuse for missing this show. But when he's back next week, we'll be chatting to him. Chaps, anything we've not mentioned, not covered, it is the impossible task of kind of previewing the rest of the world in a one-hour podcast. But any teams, any players, just before I get to the end, I'm going to ask you for a kind of big prediction to wrap up. But anything that you feel that will grab the attention, anything that listeners and viewers to this on YouTube should be keeping an eye out for.

55:59Jame: James? You can say Brazil and Neymar again, if you like.

56:02Tom Allnutt: No, no, I don't want to say Brazil and Neymar again. I like just picking a nation completely at random, but I'm fascinated to see the same group as Brazil, how Haiti get on.

56:14Jame: Yeah.

56:15Tom Allnutt: Their second World Cup, they played in 1974, I think. And they've actually got some, they've got a real interesting mix of some, you know, really, you know, players who have played in the Premier League, like Jean-Ric Nebelegaard and Wilson Isidore with obviously, you know, your players who are playing at sort of like, you know, in the American second division. I think there's actually, there's one player in the squad who actually plays his club football in Haiti. I think it'll be, you know, fascinating to see how they get on.

56:42Jame: Yeah, absolutely. A warning sign for Gregor Robertson and Johnny Northcroft there in terms of Haiti's potential brilliance. That is the big first game, isn't it? Anyone worried for Gregor on that one? I'm a little bit worried. I'm worried for him, yeah. Yeah, I'm worried for him. Gregor Robertson will be joining us for another Scotland show. So, Tom, in terms of James' point there, anything that you've caught your eye that may be in your preview prep?

57:01Tom Allnutt: Can I say Donald Trump?

57:02Jame: Yes, you are allowed to say Donald Trump.

57:04Tom Allnutt: I wonder if, like, will he try and sack Pochettino, like, mid-tournament? If they don't beat, who have they got in the first game? Paraguay. Will he sort of say, I always said Argentinian managers weren't as good as Americans. And he'll, like, you know, put on his truth so sure that it's tight. He'll think of Pochettino like, you know, a television presenter who he can just kind of get rid of, right? So, like, I can imagine Potts will then have to sort of go and have a meeting with Donald Trump in the White House and they'll have to square it out, you know? I mean, Trump is going to say something, right?

57:32Tom Allnutt: Trump is going to be a part of this.

57:33Jame: He's definitely going to be a big part of this. There's also the fact that we need to keep stressing that this is the co-host, there's three host tournaments, the three host nations for this tournament. I think a lot of people keep forgetting that. It's not just a USA-based tournament. Hersty, any names, any players, any nations, any storylines that you think that we've not mentioned yet? Well, I was interested about Vinicius. I was going to ask James about Vinicius. You know, this is a guy who's like, whenever I've seen him, he's been a remarkable player, really one of the top five players in the world.

58:03Jame: How key will Vinicius be to Brazil, James? Is he the main kind of guy now?

58:11Tom Allnutt: I think Ancelotti was, I think he gave some interview recently where he said Brazil have, we have two of the top five players in Brazil without specifying, but I'd sort of, I think, believed that he was referring to Vinicius and Rafinha. So I think Vinicius is, I think he kind of is the main man. You know, I think with, I think Neymar's role is not that of the main man anymore, especially with the injury kind of concerns over him. his kind of slight, you know, his lack of consistent football. I think Neymar's role now is more of the kind of the elder statesman who, you know, might come on and, you know, have 20 minutes of magic somewhere along the line.

59:01Tom Allnutt: But I think, yes, I think Vinicius probably, Vinicius and Rafinha, I think, are the guys who have got to step up, I guess, for Brazil at this tournament. Absolutely. I was just going to say as well, it feels like a World Cup of managers, right? This must be the most stacked tournament in the history of the game in terms of elite managers. You've got two cool Pochettino, Ancelotti, Deschamps. You've got some really good club managers who I think have taken jobs with the countries. In part, maybe because it's such a big and seismic tournament in the USA, but also because of the way the club game is now, it's quite nice to manage countries.

59:38Tom Allnutt: You sort of think, how is that going to affect? Is it going to be a tactical tournament? Are those kind of changes in extra time going to make a big difference? It might be a tournament where the managers also kind of take centre stage.

59:49Jame: Yeah, that's a good final take to end on there. We'll have to wrap it up. Tom Allnott, Paul Hurst and James Gibran, thank you very much for joining me on this jam-packed show. Make sure you're following all three of them on their social media platforms out there in USA, Mexico and Canada. Of course, we'll be keeping you up to date with all the latest from the tournament next week and we will be doing daily shows. Don't forget that, daily World Cup shows. so this won't be the last you'll hear of them or of the amazing teams and players that they're covering. That's it for now. Thank you for listening.

1:00:15Jame: We'll be back with another show very soon. See you then.

1:00:25Since he got out, bad things keep happening.

1:00:30Tom Allnutt: Cape Fear is now streaming on Apple TV. Why would I want to hurt you? Why? Starring Academy Award winner, Javier Bardem. Why? And Academy Award nominee, Amy Adams.

1:00:44Jame: He is coming after my family. Why?

1:00:49Tom Allnutt: Cape Fear, now streaming on Apple TV. Subscription required.

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