WORLD CUP DAY 10: Sweden stunned and stick with Ronaldo

0:02Tom Allnutt: Checking out online? Apple Pay makes it simple. When you tap the Apple Pay button, you can review your card information and shipping details. Need to make a change? Just tap to update your details before you pay. Then, all that's left, simply authenticate your purchase with Face ID to check out in seconds. Make online shopping a breeze with Apple Pay. When you're a maintenance engineer in a beverage manufacturing plant, you keep production lines moving and quality on track because there is no room for slowdowns. With Grainger's vast selection of high-quality motors, sensors, belts, and hard-to-find parts, you can get what you need fast and all in one place, so nothing gets in the way of getting the job done.

0:51Call 1-800-GRAINGER, click grainger.com, or just stop by. Grainger. For the ones who get it done.

1:07Hello and welcome to The Game, a football podcast from The Times and Sunday Times. These are our daily World Cup shows giving you the lowdown on the 2026 tournament. I'm Tom Clark, this is Day 10 and later on I'll be chatting to Martin Samuel about England and his thoughts on the World Cup so far. But now I'm joined by the great wanderer of the Times team. He's been to Curaçao, he's seen Congo get a point against Portugal, and today he was at Netherlands thrashing of Sweden. Tom Allnott, I normally reference your knowledge of European football on the regular show, but, I mean, you're a man of the world now, right?

1:40Tom Allnutt: Yeah, I'm feeling quite sort of settled here now, Tom, in Houston. I had two or three days in Mexico, three or four days on the Caribbean island in Curaçao, but I've been here now for three or four days and I'm being kind of tamed by Houston. I'm sort of settling into the shuttle bus schedule. It's very regular here, very functional. Very nice though. Very nice Houston. Yeah, the weather's a bit mad. Like it's kind of warm, but always raining at the same time. But very nice people. And yeah, enjoying it here. Thanks, yeah. Lovely stuff. Lovely stuff. He's done enough traveling, everybody. He's settled now.

2:16He just wants to stay where he is. Let's talk about the game you're at tonight. A remarkable performance, probably by both sides, I would say. I was really excited for this one. I thought it could be a really good test. And maybe you'd say it was. The scoreline for kind of people maybe just listening this in the morning and maybe didn't see it, busy Saturday weekend evening, would suggest, you know, Netherlands dominated. And I think they probably did. But what did you make of it? Because going into this, Netherlands needed a win, needed a performance. And Sweden were brilliant against Tunisia.

2:45What did you make of how it panned out?

2:47Tom Allnutt: Yeah, it was a funny one because I sort of thought it would be tighter than it was. But I think as always with World Cups, you have such a small sample size, don't you, in the first round or two, and you make conclusions about teams and then actually you have to sort of revise those conclusions. I think that was the case with Sweden today. That victory they had over Tunisia 5-1 in the first round was really kind of put in context, I thought, because this was their first serious test, if you like. And to be honest, I think the gap in quality was really clear. you know I mean from the Dutch side you know there was a lot of pressure on this match there was a lot of pressure I think on Koeman there's definitely been a sense in the kind of Dutch media that after that 2-2 draw against Japan you know he was kind of in the line of fire a little bit you know of his second half substitutions in that match where he tried to kind of contain the draw to contain the win sorry and then they conceded late and there's a little bit of sort of tension generally around Koeman to be honest you know there's a lot of talk in the Netherlands about who's going to take over after the World Cup.

3:47Tom Allnutt: Ten Haags being mentioned, Peter Bosch, the PSV Ironhofen coach. There's a feeling, I think, that his tactics are slightly cautious, that the style of play is slightly underwhelming. I would generally kind of summarise and say that maybe people aren't massively overjoyed about Ronald Koeman at the moment. So he needed this win, because I think after that draw against Japan, it really had the group open. And if they hadn't won this one, then they would have been in trouble, to be honest. So it was a resounding victory that I think the players needed. Koeman needed. I think they played well, you know, they got two early goals.

4:20Tom Allnutt: And what I liked, I think, and I think what Koeman said he liked afterwards, the plan and the style of play, the identity of the team was really clear, you know, and you think about this Dutch side, they've got a very good, you know, defence, you know, names that we all know, Van de Ven, Van Hecker, Dumfries, you know, these are really good defenders. But as you kind of progress through the team, it maybe gets a little slightly, you know, more underwhelming. They haven't got those kind of, you know, real vintage Dutch craftsmen, you know, there's no van der Vaart in this team, you know, no Schneider, like no Dennis Bergkamp, you know, it's a little bit, you know, they've got Frankie de Jong, who's a lovely playmaker at his best, but actually in the front three, it's more kind of athletes, it's runners, isn't it?

4:57Tom Allnutt: You know, Gakpo and Marlon, and then you've got Brian Brobby, you know, down the middle. And I think the way they play today, it's sort of played to their strengths. You know, they got the ball out wide. They asked the wingers and the fullbacks to beat their men and swing balls into the box. And then they had Brobby in there and they had Gakpo arriving in the back post. And it worked really well today. Whether it's a tactic, it's a bit of a meat and veg tactic, right? And whether it can work against better opposition later in the tournament, in truth, I have my doubts, but it definitely worked today.

5:30Tom Allnutt: And Koeman said in the press conference, this is the kind of win that will strike fear into other teams in the tournament. and I thought that was maybe optimistic, but it will certainly raise morale in the team, which is much needed. Yeah, it reminded me a little bit of how I used to play on FIFA. Just very simple, quick guys out wide, put the cup back in, get players into the box and try and go for a tap-in. That's how it was my basic tactic. It used to want my brother up to no end. Yeah, I don't know if he used to play that on FIFA. Yeah, just sort of run down the wing and then swing it in the box.

5:57Tom Allnutt: It was incredibly frustrating to play against, but really effective. Yeah, my brother hates it. Getting into and moving away from sibling rivalries. I mean, this was highlighted kind of by some people, myself included, as a bit of a group of death. It's a fascinating one and maybe an example of this is a long World Cup. Let's not get too carried away by initial impressions because you've got a Netherlands team now that some people will be going, wow, look at them. And the manager himself, as you've just said, is trying to talk them up. Sweden on a bit of a hiding now. We're recording this before Japan against Tunisia, but you would think that maybe Japan will get at least a draw from that game.

6:33how do you see it looking in that group now how do you see these two teams going forward what does Sweden have to correct is it that Potter's tactics were exposed a little bit here is it a little bit simplistic he needs to think of a plan b how does he go about changing things next because they've got Japan coming up next and for all that opening win was great there could be a scenario

6:53Tom Allnutt: where they finish on three points yeah and you know crucially they really surrendered their goal difference you know because they won that first game 5-1 they've lost you know this one to the Netherlands 5-1 so they're basically you know on zero and actually if they're going to sort of get in that mix in the third place pot then having a new a positive goal difference even of sort of one or two I think is generally thought to to be pretty pretty give you a pretty good chance of going through as as it stands you know if they do lose to Japan and three points is all they have they will then end up with a minus goal difference won't they so that you know they could be struggling to get through so getting hammered today you know it's obvious to say but that wasn't ideal for them you know not only for the points but for their goal difference as well I mean Potter said afterwards you know I think the back three just didn't really work today it sort of played into the Netherlands hands because you know time and time again Gakpo and Marlon just exploited those spaces that you get you know when you when you play against a back three out wide and Potter did change it he went to a back four I think sort of towards the end of the first half but by then they were you know they were two nil down and he sort of said potty you know you don't change a kind of winning team you know after they'd won so well in the first the first match and i can see that but the tactics just didn't it didn't work today um i mean you know quite clearly it's weird watching sweden because when they there were two or three times today when isak and gilchores you know really combined quite nicely and when those two get on the ball and and and play to each other you think you know this team looked like a proper team you know they have two players there who were just massively above the level of of what's behind them and and the problem is is the way they defended was pretty poor like the one-on-one defending today was pretty bad you can have you know arguably the probably maybe the most dangerous strike duo in the tournament but when you have you know a flaky defense like sweden have unfortunately just you know it doesn't cut the mustard i think they're up against it now because you think maybe you know japan are probably the second best team.

8:52Tom Allnutt: The Netherlands are now firmly in command of the group, in my opinion, because they've got Tunisia last, right? So it looks like they should be on to win the group now. But there's an interesting curveball with this group, Tom, because they match up with Morocco and Brazil's group, you know? So you can finish second here and play Brazil. You can finish first and play Morocco. There's not much between Morocco and Brazil, to be honest. So, you know, the reward of finishing first is not particularly high. And actually, maybe you'd rather finish third and just go into the kind of lottery pot of the third place teams.

9:20Tom Allnutt: I mean, it might be that finishing third is actually not too bad an idea in this group after all. It's a Graham Potter tactics masterclass, Tom. That's what it is. He's thought about this. He said to his lads today, he's like, boys, this goal difference is far too good. We need to sort it out. But it is interesting. And it's interesting that it's playing out as the potential group of death, but lots more still to come. Let's talk about some of the other teams. I billed it earlier as the great wonder of this tournament. You have seen Portugal. You're going to see them again. that's your next game Uzbekistan Portugal unloads riding on this game Portugal drawing that game against Congo we heard from you directly after that match with a really interesting detailed voice note that we chatted about with the guys but what what what have you made of the kind of murmurings there's been some stories in the press about Ronaldo and his relationship with the players and indeed from Ronaldo's family and people it's never a good sign is it when your family's jumping you know jumping into the local media it's never a good sign there's a lot riding on this game for Portugal as a nation as a as a as a team and for Cristiano Ronaldo himself yeah I just think if I was a professional footballer I would really like you know tell my family members that there is never going to be a moment where you need to post something on Instagram or like you know like post something you're never going to improve my situation by uh by writing something because I mean it just it gives off the it gives off the impression that the Portugal camp is you know not harmonious at best and at worst you know a bit of a mess um and look i mean this is the problem with ronaldo right like it in part you know that there's the debate about his performances and the debate about his role in the team and you know that is that is you know the most important thing clearly but it is also the noise that kind of comes with it right like it's it's the it's the constant sort of weight of i don't know sort of investigation that is always going on you know and i think ruben diaz was sort of speaking about this in a press comments a couple of days ago he just kind of said like everything is noise we don't care about this like i've had you know he sort of almost gave off being really exasperated by this kind of you know debate um and look like basically i mean you know what what happened was joe neves was in the mix zone after the game and he basically just kind of said what players always say about ronaldo you know that he's one of us you know he's he's here to help in the team um he's just another player and this got kind of you know taken massively out of context by the sort of you know ultra fans of Ronaldo you know around the globe who basically sort of thought that he was disrespecting Ronaldo they then sort of you know were flooding in with criticism of Jaunevez or with with criticism of Ronaldo's teammates and then Ronaldo's sister I can't remember her name is it is it Katia I think is her name and she sort of said you know said something about you know how no one was kind of winning duels no one's winning counter-attacks the midfielder playing backwards you know and then you got Ruben Diaz kind of saying the press conference and then there were some fake comments I think by Jao Neves that weren't even anything he even said and then you know Ronaldo's wife kind of said something like oh I see the new generation is coming on well it was just it's all got a little bit kind of like petty a little bit sort of ugly Ronaldo tried to kind of you know post a picture of all the players and he said something like always together always united or something you know so but as I say it's just that thing with Ronaldo that he's a he's a constant story isn't it it's constant noise and and whether or not it's he should or should not be in the team it's just really not ideal the build-up going into what is clearly an important game on on Tuesday yeah and these things can unravel so quickly can't they and it only takes the smallest thing to take hold in a tournament when you only have so few games to kind of set a kind of tone if you like Portugal going into this tournament lots of people saying how strong they were we said it on this show um so really interesting that they're under this pressure what what does Martinez do I mean it's it's kind of an impossible situation isn't it you know you drop him you make him the story again even if you drop him and win he's still the story um you know there's only I can only think of the scenario where you know you play him he maybe scores one maybe maybe creates one I think in that that's the kind of thing he needs doesn't he he needs to assist someone he needs to like run into a channel and pull the ball back for João Neves for a happen that's what needs to happen that's that we can change this narrative but like what do you think what what can they do to sort this out but this is it isn't tom like we're sort of you know forensically wondering like what is the thing that ronaldo needs to do to kind of quieten the noise actually what needs to happen is that portugal need to win the game and portugal need to play well like portugal need to play much better than they did against dr congo like it really i know it's a cliche but it's actually not about ronaldo like portugal have to find a way to play much better than they did in that opening match and it shouldn't really matter like if Ronaldo does or does not score and Portugal play really well then that is a success but I completely understand you know the way you're framing it because it feels like you know we're all kind of wondering you know how many goals does Ronaldo need to score like what does he need to do against Uzbekistan is a penalty enough you know this kind of thing and I think that is part of the problem is that everything is just kind of you know comes through the the Ronaldo lens I honestly think Martinez is is kind of pot committed.

14:27Tom Allnutt: Yeah. You know, like I sort of think, I don't really know mid tournament, whether you can, whether you can just kind of bail on Ronaldo, you know, because the amount of, of fire that it's going to create in the, in the Portuguese media and the international media, like, I don't know if you can, I mean, you know, maybe you can, I mean, right. It happened in the last world cup and they, and Ramos scored a hat trick. And then, you know, they needed, they tried to bring on Ronaldo as a substitute in the next game and they lost. And, but ultimately this Portugal team throughout qualifying throughout the last few months, has been built around Ronaldo.

14:57Tom Allnutt: This is what they know. So the idea that after one game or two games, they suddenly rip all that up and say, actually, we're going to be a pressing team who are going to have Ronaldo on the bench and we're going to play completely differently. In a way, that is also chaos. That is not the way to run a good tournament team. So I sort of think he's pot committed. Martinez has firmly nailed his colours to the Ronaldo mast and I think he has to stick with it. yeah really interesting maybe a goal line clearance as well I'm just trying to think of all the other scenarios maybe only an elastic tackle maybe a sacrificial red card or something that'd be the way to send him off into his Portugal retirement who knows and we'll be getting more on Ronaldo I'm sure from you in the coming days just before I let you go Tom and we go to a break just your thoughts on the tournament in general as I mentioned at the very top you know you've had the pleasure of seeing lots of different parts of this tournament lots of different countries lots of different sides so much was made before the tournament um about how it was going to be received over there how the fans were going to be what's your experience been of the people that you've met and the kind of the mood at the world cup yeah i mean in terms of like on the ground like i think the fans of the countries in the tournament have have you know as always you know in a world cup have been have been magnificent and i and i really think that you know social media has done a lot of damage in lots of ways but you know it is great you know being able to see all the videos and the brilliant pictures of I mean for example like you know Netherlands and Sweden today are two of the most kind of vivid orange and yellow you know fan marches it's just like it's brilliant it's fantastic that is that is what in my opinion the World Cup is all about I think you know the USA it will depend on where you are like I think here in Houston I'd say it's slightly more of a slow burn you know i think clearly them doing well and and pochettino getting the team playing so well it's just i'm hoping it's going to really catch fire in the tournament but you know talking to locals here you feel like the world cup is just kind of one of many american layers of entertainment you know like i mean i was in a taxi the other day sort of explaining it was quite strange it was it was a weird experience for me explaining kind of the rules of football to an adult male which is just you know something you never have to do right you He was like, what?

17:08Tom Allnutt: So they just like, they leave it at a tie at the end of the match? And I was like, yeah, yeah, it's just the group stage. And then later on, we get to the bits, you know, where it's, where you go to what's called a penalty shootout. What? What? That's like a shootout? Like, it's just like, people are still learning the fabric of this sport, you know, here. And, but that's not to say they're not enthusiastic about it. And as I say, this is a very personal experience in a very small part of this, you know, enormous tournament. so yeah I mean I think in terms of the football I think I think I sort of just tend to think that the World Cup is going to be split into two that in about two or three weeks we'll be looking back and being like do you remember that match between Japan and the Netherlands like it just feels like a completely different time right like and I think the big teams and the big players are going to find their momentum in the knockout rounds you know and I think ultimately like this group stage it means so little in terms of the results like it's all about the kind of the colors and the stories and the fairy tales and the curaSals and the DR Congos you know and that is brilliant but I think ultimately we're going to see a different Spain you know in in the quarterfinals because they're going to have Lamin-Yumar for example playing and fit we're going to see a different Germany I think I think we're going to see a different France like I think the big teams are really going to come to the fore and actually because of the length of it it could be that in a way the teams that sort of pace themselves you know actually the ones that maybe might do very well in the knockouts because more than ever you know this tournament is a is a marathon right not a sprint yeah absolutely mentioning germany they're getting a late winner against ivory coaster important win for them a really intriguing game that one i enjoyed it a lot uh tom all thank you very much for joining me great insights as well as a brilliant commitment to an impression i love anyone who really commits to an impression and that was a fantastic you took me inside that American cab.

18:57I felt like I was there. Thank you very much for joining me. Stick with us. We're just going to take a little break. I'll be back with Martin Samuel after this.

19:18Tom Allnutt: Checking out online? Apple Pay makes it simple. When you tap the Apple Pay button, you can review your card information and shipping details. Need to make a change? Just tap to update your details before you pay. Then, all that's left, simply authenticate your purchase with Face ID to check out in seconds. Make online shopping a breeze with Apple Pay. Hey Yetis, this is Nick and Jack from the Best One Yet podcast. Now, the last company we worked at, they used Paylocity and everything just worked. It wasn't until launching our own media business, this show, that we realized how rare that is. Because Paylocity is one delicious burrito of operational needs.

20:02They roll up HR, finance, and IT seamlessly into one delicious bite. When everything wraps together like that all at once, your workforce, your tech stack, your business, you don't need more tools, you don't even need cilantro. You need one solution. And that is why Paylocity built a single platform to connect HR, finance, and IT with AI-driven insights and automated workflows that simplify the complex and power of what's next. Or as we call it, a delicious operational burrito. Yes, we do. Experience a one place for all your HCM needs, besties. So start now at paylocity.com slash one. Paylocity.com slash O-N-E.

20:37Hi, this is Jonathan Fields, host of The Good Life Project. What if your home could welcome you at the door, energize your kitchen, and calm your bedroom all automatically? With Pura's family of smart diffusers, you can send every space perfectly. Choose premium, clean fragrances, adjust the intensity, and set schedules right from your phone. It's whole home scenting designed for the way you live. Build your Pure system today at pure.com slash whole home.

21:13Welcome back to the Game Football Podcast from The Times and Sunday Times. These are our daily World Cup shows. I'm Tom Clark and I'm delighted to say that for part two of today's show, I'm joined by our chief correspondent, Martin Samuel. Martin, joining us from New York, where you're based for this tournament. Hi, Tom. We're going to talk about England in a sec, because you were there for the big win against Croatia. But I'm just interested generally how you're finding the tournament. So much discussion beforehand, more teams than ever, more matches, you know, new introductions of various rules and things.

21:45You've seen Brazil, you've seen France, you've seen England. how's the vibes how's the mood uh in new york with you you've been to so many tournaments world cup yeah it's the world cup it's good it's always it's always good that's the thing i wrote before the tournament really that um the world cup always wins the world cup always endures and um no matter what they try to do to it um and that's true that's true here um despite the The, you know, things that you see, the many sort of things that you look at and think, well, that's not right. You know, there was very few Senegalese fans in against France and, you know, you lose the colour that you have a lot of World Cups when that happens.

22:34And so, you know, the England fans couldn't put the flags everywhere, which is a very distinctive thing that happens when England play. the hydration brakes are driving everyone up the wall but the football's been good the football's interesting the big players are turning up and turning up early Vinicius Junior I think has now I think his first six World Cup matches he's got three goals and three assists in his first six World Cup matches he's better than Messi better than Mbappé even and Mbappé is a prolific performer at these events. And, you know, Mbappé has turned up. Messi's first game is incredible.

23:21England, Harry Kane, Jude Bellingham, you know, the big players, the big players are turning up and performing. The hosts are doing really well. That's always really, very important in a tournament. You know, I can remember in South Africa watching, wasn't at the match, but I was watching it, I was in a restaurant, I think, and South Africa went out the tournament at the group stage, which was very unexpected. And you could just feel the air going out of the balloon as that happened, really. Whereas here, the United States are absolutely flying to the extent that people are contemplating whether they could win it.

24:03Mexico were the first team to qualify for the knockout stage. Canada were going through. We all know Canada were going through. You know, they've won a game and they've won it by six. So they're going through. And that's great. And that's great. South Korea and Japan in 2002, similar sort of thing. Two countries. They weren't minnows. They weren't Qatar. But they were not really expected. You know, you could have seen Japan going out in the group stage, maybe South Korea. And South Korea ended up being in the semifinals, albeit through some of the most dubious refereeing I've ever seen in my entire life.

24:42and Japan got won their group actually won their group and so that gives a real buzz to the place I was I watched America play their first game and it was in a restaurant it wasn't in a sports bar or anything like that but it was in a restaurant but it was on two televisions and by about second half I'm the only one who was paying any attention to it whatsoever you know goals were going in and there wasn't even a cheer there was nothing I was watching it, the sound down and you're watching it yesterday I watched it I watched about the first hour or so because I was working and writing so I went out and I saw about the first hour a place in Hoboken a school's bar in Hoboken televisions everywhere, it was going nuts it was going nuts I was going to send you a bit of film of it but just at the moment I was filming all the celebrations or whatever, a young lady walked past who was selling shots.

25:41And it's, to be fair, she didn't have as many clothes on as I like to wear to work, certainly. And I'm thinking, this is not a good look for the times. This is really not a good look for the times. So I decided not to send that piece into our live blog. It wasn't Hooters or anything, I just want to say. I'm not in a strip club. It was a sports bar, but that's how they sell shots in America. you know yeah um and but a definite sign of the enthusiasm that's around the place if you notice that yeah kind of as the week is progressing um without a doubt they got a great kit a really noticeable kit as well by the way yeah so brilliant kit one of my favorites it's a it's a brilliant kit and um which obviously looks like a fluttering american flag and um and um so that's noticeable if you know what I mean if people are walking down the street wearing that shirt you notice it in a way you know you know what I'm like about football kits and you know like mediocre all black numbers that people tend to wear and all of it yeah yeah which which is just indistinguishable one looks like the other someone's wearing an America shirt that's an American shirt unless you're in Hamilton and um and you know and so that stands out as well so it's it's a great look it's a great looking tournament in that respect yeah great start indeed I just wanted to follow up about um the big player thing you're gonna one of your next games uh you're watching Norway next and obviously Erling Haaland some of the players you mentioned there have been at the World Cup before this is his first brilliantly uh imposing start if you like as is as is his way how important is it for a tournament or how rare is it reflecting on some of your past ones to have had you know we're we're getting on for 10 days in but as you as you listed earlier and you can keep listing harland included these big players turning up in a big way we're going to talk about harry kane and england in a sec but i've been so struck by players hitting the ground running straight away you know, none of this, like, oh, he's gone missing and things.

27:50There aren't too many, that doesn't apply to too many players. Is that quite rare in your experience, having done so many World Cups? No, it is rare because a lot of the time people turn up absolutely exhausted. Certainly the England team turn up absolutely exhausted. That's always been one of the problems. You know, it's at the end of the season. That's why in Qatar there was a little bit of hopefulness, really, that it wouldn't be the usual syndrome of England, you know, what was it, Platini said about, you know, lions in window and lambs in the summer or whatever. And that was his description of England.

28:27But that happens to a lot of the big players too. Yeah. You know, they've spent the season getting kicked to pieces, a lot of them. It possibly helps, say, with a guy like Messi, who's playing in the MLS. that's not as onerous as you know a season with Barcelona say so that that sort of that helps as well but yeah I mean Vinicius Junior has hit the ground running Mbappe hit the ground you know Mbappe had a first half where you know if you'd have come in and you didn't know your football you'd go oh this guy from France they got fun they can't get rid of him because he can't trap You can drop a bag of cement.

29:06And he comes in and he's sensational in the second half. The two goals he scores. I mean, the second goal he scores is incredible. And I do think that that's, you know, people are coming and they're making big statements. They're making statements that say, right, you know, I've arrived. I am here. I'm here to play. And, you know, you've got to try and match me. You know, and I think that's very, very important. I think that's very important for a tournament. I mean, there's all sorts of dark rumours out here about the sort of pressure that federations were put under by FIFA. I don't believe them, by the way.

29:42I've written about it for the Sunday Times tomorrow. The pressure that federations were put under, there's rumours going around that, you know, there was a lot of pressure put on them to pick the likes of Neymar, to pick the likes of Ronaldo and Messi and even Modric. So all the big names were here, all the stars were here. I don't actually believe it. I just think that FIFA do so many things that are dubious, shall we say, that they leave themselves open to sort of wild conspiracy theories, you know, like the sort of shoehorning of Messi into the Club World Cup when Inter Miami hadn't actually won the MLS Cup.

30:22They just won the regular season. Every major American sport's got a regular season and a postseason. You're not champions until you've won the postseason. they'd only won the regular season and Infantino runs on the pitch and goes oh you've qualified for the club World Cup and so things like that, things like Ronaldo should have got banned for three matches, suddenly he got a one match ban and two games suspended so he could play at the World Cup and so of course there's wild conspiracy theories that Brazil have picked Neymar after three years out of the team and you know all these dark rumours about how they're under pressure from FIFA but that aside actually the the you know but that's the old guard that's the sort of marquee names uh on which the tournament was sold from its inception if you know what i mean uh in america but what is happening is the new the next generation the younger guys harland and bappy all of those guys are turning up and going right here we go and and that's great it's great to watch yeah yeah you mentioned statements there let's talk about England and that statement win that statement second half against Croatia you've written about it a couple of times on the Times website and I've referenced the pieces when chatting to Johnny but but for pod listeners what what was it was so impressive for you in in that game you know you've seen so many England starts at tournaments what what was it about this win was it the second half was it the changes was it the manner of the win what was it the the manner of the win I think you know four goals against anybody for in a tournament because tournaments are cagey.

31:56That's what we always say. You open up, oh, it's all very cagey. You know, if we'd have drawn one all with Croatia or even nil-nil with Croatia, you'd have gone, well, that's the tournament result. That's the sort of thing that you do. You don't take too many chances first off. But in the second half, certainly, once Tuchel spoke to them at halftime, and it was brilliant. It was brilliant. If you reference in the piece, It's Giles Cohen's column about Tuchel's half-time speech today in the Times. It's sensational.

32:33And that changed the dynamic. And now you look at the Garner game, and it's interesting, the Garner game, because we do have a habit of, you know, when we start well sometimes, we find, you know, the second game is often a little bit difficult. You know, the old difficult third album syndrome. and, you know, you sort of, there's a little bit of that sometimes. But I think Tuchel looks like somebody that won't let them sink into that, you know, judging by what he did at half-time. And, you know, look, we're going to be playing somebody at the weekend that is a step up, aren't we, from Croatia's forward line because Semenyo is an exceptional player.

33:25And so we're going to be playing, so that's a little bit of a worry because our defence didn't look the greatest. But that's the thing. A lot of the teams that have impressed here so far, you take France, you would look at them and think, yeah, France, you can get them though, can't you? That defence, the full-back's very, very high. you know you look at looks at them against uh senegal you're looking at this thinking this is 2-2-6 at the moment i mean they've got the two full backs up they've got the four guys up as well this is this is this is insanity how is this going to work if someone goes at them um but equally you can look at england um against croatia and go okay okay the defense the defense could, you know, someone could catch hold of us at the back.

34:15But the rest of it was really positive. Kane starts off to a flyer. So hopefully we have got, we're rid of this debate that happens at every tournament, which is by the second game. Should we drop Harry Kane? You know, oh, Sir Alfie dropped Jimmy Greaves or he didn't pick Jimmy Greaves. Oh no, not this. The way to win a World Cup is leave your best player now. so hopefully we're beyond that you know Harry Kane is our best striker without a doubt and he will play every time we need him to play we might not need him to play by the time we get to Panama who knows Jude Bellingham in the number 10 looked great looked like Jude Bellingham looked like exactly what you wanted everyone knows I'm a fan and he looked like him I thought Elliot Anderson had a cracking game as well I really did And, you know, that was one of those things that you wanted to see because we haven't played anybody in the qualifiers.

35:12We haven't played anybody that you can make a judge. So you're looking at it thinking, well, Anderson looks good in an England shirt, but we haven't played anybody yet. But now we've played somebody and he looked good. So that's a positive. I think if Saka gets fit, that's an upgrade on Nani Madureki, who I thought worked very hard, had a good game, but you just think if Saka gets into the positions that Madureki gets into, and he does, there's a little bit more quality in his final ball than there is in Madureki's, so that would be an upgrade. But Madureki worked, and Gordon, worked ever so hard, run people ragged, and then, of course, Saka comes on, Lassford comes on, and you come on and you can, oh, here we go, you know, this is because the other two guys have run everyone into the ground.

36:07So it's a good setup. It's a good setup, you know. We're a good team. We're a good team. Is there any changes that you'd like to see or that you think could be made for the Ghana game, either in the team or in the approach, or do you think it's pretty well set up? It's difficult, isn't it? You know, there's a debate around Bart Gwehi and whether you bring Gwehi back. particularly as their main threat is a player that he plays against every single week, you could actually look at that and go, well, it's the smart thing to do against Semenyo to play Gehi, to play John Stones, and to play Nico O 'Reilly.

36:45So you've got three Manchester City guys who know him inside out. Unfortunately, if you play where he played against Panama, he's against Rhys James. That's where he played against Panama. He would be against the right back, not the left back but you know you you could argue that so that would be Gehi for Konza but obviously you know Thomas Tuchel either sees something in Gehi that he's not quite convinced by or he sees something in Konza that he's very convinced by John Stones looked to me like a guy hadn't played much elite football um in that first match um but i think croatio are a better team than ghana i just think ghana have got one player that you know can can really hurt you uh which is perhaps a step up on croatia but i think croatio are better i think we beat the second best team in the group i think we're the best team in the group and i think we beat the second best team the group and we put four goals on them as well and so when i was when i wrote that piece and when i was sort of ranking the uh the first round of games i had um francis win over senegal at number one and our win against crazier's number two and i was really pleased i acknowledged the united states at number three four one against paraguay because paraguay won last night so paraguay aren't mugs they won with 10 men last night honestly i mean i watched that and they defended absolutely brilliantly and it made me think where the hell was this in the first game and it then made me think hang on a minute this means usa are a proper proper team because if they put four past this slot with 11 then turkey could barely get near them with 10 like amazing so yeah and they was and they were so comfortable against australia yesterday once they went two new up i know everyone's moaning about the referee or it was a bit like scotland moaning about the referee and moaning about the referee.

38:40But once they were two no up, they were never losing it. Yeah. And that's without Pulisic, who, you know, back home, where you are, Tom, people will not realise this. But over here, Pulisic is like David Beckham. You know, he's on every advert. He's, you know, Christian Pulisic that we remember as being, when he played for Chelsea but that was it wasn't it he wasn't the worst player he was a terrible player but he wasn't he was okay he didn't look bad but over here he's big and them not having Pulisic yesterday and winning comfortably against an Australian team that had won their first match is big as well and people are genuinely saying you know You are genuinely hearing conversations.

39:35People like Thierry and me are being asked, can the United States win the World Cup? Yeah. And the funny thing is, I mean, whether it's politeness or not, nobody is saying no. No one turns around and goes, oh, do me a favour. Because actually, at the moment, they look as good as any team. Their first two results are very good results. Score six goals. They look a lot like, you know, as you will know, having seen them, they look a lot like Pochettino's Spurs team. They've got that sort of energy, that press, you know, they're technical. You know, Pochettino's, you know, done a very, very good job with them here.

40:17You know, and before the season, before the tournament, sorry, not before the season, before the tournament, there were questions about Pochettino, about whether this would work. They'd had some tricky results and everything. in their friendlies. But it's all come together. It's all come together for me. Yeah, absolutely. We'll be hoping England can follow up with another big statement win against Ghana. Martin Samuel, thank you very much for your big statement. As always on the Game Podcast, you can read Martin's column and the rest of his articles from the World Cup on the Times website now.

40:53Martin, thank you very much for joining me on today's show. Thanks very much, Tom. Thank you too for listening. All of you out there, we hope you're enjoying these daily World Cup shows. We'll be back with another one tomorrow. We'll see you then.

41:31into one delicious bite. When everything wraps together like that all at once, your workforce, your tech stack, your business, you don't need more tools. You don't even need cilantro. You need one solution. And that is why Paylocity built a single platform to connect HR, finance, and IT with AI-driven insights and automated workflows that simplify the complex and power what's next. Or as we call it, a delicious operational burrito. Yes, we do. Experience a one place for all your HCM needs, besties. So start now at paylocity.com slash one. at paylossity.com slash O-N-E. When you're a maintenance engineer in a beverage manufacturing plant, you keep production lines moving and quality on track because there's no room for slowdowns.

42:12With Grainger's vast selection of high-quality motors, sensors, belts, and hard-to-find parts, you can get what you need fast and all in one place so nothing gets in the way of getting the job done. Call 1-800-GRAINGER, click grainger.com, or just stop by. Grainger, for the ones who get it done.