WORLD CUP DAY 14: Scotland tortuous and why Mainoo needs minutes

0:02Checking out online? Apple Pay makes it simple. When you tap the Apple Pay button, you can review your card information and shipping details. Need to make a change? Just tap to update your details before you pay. Then, all that's left, simply authenticate your purchase with Face ID to check out in seconds. Make online shopping a breeze with Apple Pay. At PwC, we optimize the systems that put your data to work so you can scale your AI from proof of concept to competitive edge and accelerate your tech evolution so you can redefine what's possible. From blueprint to breakthrough, we take you further with tech so you can outthink, outpace, and outperform.

0:53PwC, so you can. PwC refers to the PwC network and or one or more of its member firms, each of which is a separate legal entity.

1:28nil defeat against Brazil, which leaves their qualification hopes for the knockout stage hanging by a thread. Gregor will offer his analysis in just a second, but first let's hear from our Scottish football correspondent Michael Grant, who sent these thoughts at full time.

1:42Gregor Robertson: Well, I don't know if you can hear me above the noise of this crowd in Miami. Brazilian fans jubilant, as you can imagine. A very, very comfortable win for them and a desperately difficult and tortuous night for Scotland really. 3-0, terrible defending from Scotland in the first half. As they did against Morocco, they dug into the game a little bit, but there's such a lack of attacking quality, completely opposed to what you saw from Brazil where they have such depth and talent and it leaves Scotland really in terrible trouble in this in this World Cup. They are in the list of teams that have finished third and they desperately want to finish in the top eight of those and go through but we're already trying to work out the permutations and the ifs and buts and what they need from other results and it's not good.

2:41Gregor Robertson: Scotland have slipped down this list of 12 teams and we are now kind of thinking that they might already be out of the tournament. They need favours from other groups. It's a desperately disappointing night. They wanted to avoid a heavy defeat, and it's come to them. They had chances. They made some second-half attempts on goal, and they did get some shots on target, which was beyond them in the Morocco game. But it's a sobering and pretty sorry night for Scotland again, I'm afraid. And that might be the last we see of them at the World Cup. Gregor, torturous is one of the words Michael used in that note there to describe Scotland's night.

3:26It was a difficult watch, even for me, I've got to say. I'm sure that's probably quite annoying for you to hear. But, you know, immediate reactions. We're recording this at two o 'clock in the morning. Immediate thoughts now.

3:38Gregor Robertson: Torturous is about the best way to sum up, yeah. I don't know. I thought it was a very strange game, Mike. I think some of the, just reading one or two comments that emerged from the players, from John McGinn and Andy Robertson, and they kind of echoed the sentiments I had during the game, which was like Brazil almost lulled us into a false sense of security. Quite why they felt the need to do that, I'm not sure. That's what seems strange to me. But we had a lot of the ball. We moved it around as if we had almost no threat and actually the opposition's third. But we moved it around against Brazil.

4:15Gregor Robertson: And it was feeling like, oh, this is not so bad. And then we just shot ourselves in the foot, in the other foot, and then in both kneecaps. And, yeah, how can you ever, ever wish to do anything in a World Cup if you give away goals like that? And particularly at that timing in a game as well, for the second game in a row. So, yeah, that was extraordinary. It was just like, I can't believe, you know, surreal to watch. I can't believe this is happening. sort of stuff and the second goal wasn't that much better Andy Robertson you know gifted possession far too easily back to Brazil on the edge of their own box and it was a great cross but Angus Gunn's had a pretty good tournament I think on the whole but he kind of got caught under that one for Vinny Jr.

5:03Gregor Robertson: to Nodden in the second and Kieran Tierney was kind of shrugged off the ball for the third when he came on he was actually probably our best attacking threat and he came on for the second half so it was weird I actually was going into weird sort of daydreams about picturing Carlo Ancelotti sort of just talking to the players in the changing room the Brazil players saying lads you don't need to press them you don't really need to try and win the ball back they'll give you it and then when they give you it you can punish them and that's what happened I wouldn't be surprised if that was basically his team talk Yeah I think that was maybe one of the more damaging aspects was that you felt Brazil were in first gear for a lot of that game and maybe the the lack of intensity as you say kind of didn't really help Scotland I mean reflecting on this game and the Morocco game and thinking you know I've been up watching these games and as I say I feel a frustration for you that there's not been more of a kind of you know punches thrown by this Scotland team because you quite rightly highlight that frailties in defence at times but But in midfield and attacking areas, you've got some very good players.

6:14And we've said so often that these tournaments are about players of certain levels that maybe we're, as football fans, accustomed to not seeing amazing things from, delivering on the biggest stage. And I just found myself being frustrated that the likes of McGinn, McTominay and some of the others in midfield who are good players, very good players at times, aren't either allowed to offer it more, aren't finding themselves confident enough. I just can't work it out. What do you think that is? Because we've ended up talking about Scotland's defence, Grant Hanley in the Morocco game, Jack Hendry tonight and other things, rather than ever talking about McGinn, McTominay and some of your better players.

6:54Gregor Robertson: Yeah, look, if I had the answer to why that's the case, I would, I don't know, I'd be a happy man and I would be telling you. You wouldn't be sat here with me. for me just all those players you're talking about almost anyone in fact when you get into the final third they look so isolated they don't really the only time there's ever been any sort of patterns or any sort of decent link up play has been down the left with Tierney or with Robertson and usually McGinn or someone just like little one twos or little kind of overloads on the flanks or in very kind of fleeting moments when Ben Gunn and Duk got on the ball When I looked at the team selection today, I was pretty pleased with it.

7:39Gregor Robertson: I was glad that Ganondolk was playing and offered that potential outlet. He just never really got the opportunity. He had one or two forays in the first half. He kept trying to make that run inside as well, which was a decent ploy. Brazil had Gabriel mopping up. They've got some very good players, despite there still not being a Brazil team I'm all that convinced about. And then there's the kind of Scott McTominay question. He's just not really arrived at the tournament at all. And, you know, all the chances that fell to us in the second half tended to fall to McTominay. And he's the man you want them to fall to.

8:21Gregor Robertson: And it just wasn't happening. That header that Alisson kind of got down to, he had the chance right at the end, I think it was on his left foot, he kind of swept it, but just not with any power. and I don't know, he just didn't seem like he was in the groove, in his flow. And that could be said about, as you say, about really all of our sort of talisman players who have stepped up and been really, really big players for Scotland over the years and particularly in the last year or so. It's just not happened for them. And the questions will inevitably fall to Steve Clarke. He's just signed a new contract to 2030.

9:02Gregor Robertson: you have got to remember the context, where we've been or where we've not been we've not been at the party for so long we've not been at World Cup since 1998 before that it was I think 22 years before we'd been at a major tournament at all, before we got to the Euros and now it's a regular occurrence but we've been awfully awfully disappointed on each occasion when we've reached there and like you know I was holding on to some positives in terms of the way we played for spells and reacted against Morocco. I started watching this game thinking, yeah, this looks good, we're confident. And then, yeah, you can't make mistakes like that in the World Cup.

9:44Yeah, Steve Clark speaking after the game saying, you see the quality in the final third of the pitch from Brazil. We didn't have that tonight. It wasn't enough. Let's be honest, the best team won. You cannot make the mistakes at this level because he puts you on the back foot and it becomes a long night for sure. I think we're going home. Just before we get on to potential chances and we try and talk about supercomputers and statistical nonsense and get you wound up about that in a minute, mate. But on Steve Clarke, how are you reflecting on it now? Because you yourself on this podcast and in articles for the previous Euros have expressed frustration at getting to these tournaments and then not delivering.

10:22We're sat here now, three points, a win against Haiti, but ultimately maybe under-clubbing it still. Are you looking at that new contract before the tournament and thinking that maybe sends the wrong message? Or is this the classic kind of reflection of a podcast host and sports editor that I'm trying to mix it after a difficult game?

10:43Gregor Robertson: Undoubtedly, there'll be sections of the population in Scotland who very much think that was a mistake. And we're probably even before the World Cup. And even despite the miracle against Denmark, probably we're still slightly uneasy about that. for the reasons that we've just seen that we're kind of, we still seem to be really conservative when we get to these tournaments. My point, my position has always been I've no idea who's going to take over. And I'm actually, I had this conversation tonight, I'm actually looking at, and we're probably drawn towards the end of an era now with players like Andy Robertson.

11:21Gregor Robertson: McGinn has got a good few years in him still and he's into his 30s. Kieran Tierney you can't rely upon in terms of his injury record like Grant Hanley's done like Kenny McLean it's a group of players who've kind of grown together and whatever we say about how poorly we've performed at major tournaments they've achieved a lot and that era's kind of drawn to a close but I'm not sure who comes next in terms of the playing squad as well I'm not sure we have players of that kind of stature or even potentially of that stature ready to step into their, fill their shoes. So the manager's one thing, but I'd say the playing squad is another.

12:10Gregor Robertson: But with Steve Clarke, I still think, I still think you have to look at the bigger picture and what he's done, he's the longest serving Scotland manager now. he has made it a regular occurrence although we have to say again this is a bigger conversation there's different avenues of qualifying now even like if we were to somehow miraculously qualify for the round of 32 it would be with a huge gain of asterisk because it's a bit of a farce really I don't want to be watching Scotland play in Brazil and hear, listen to Liam McLeod the commentator talking about another goal will give us a 30 % uptick in Opta's chances of us qualifying.

12:53Gregor Robertson: This is not what a World Cup should be about. So it's the same in terms of qualifying. We've had the Nations League to help us qualify, but we got there. So Steve Clarke undoubtedly has an enormous amount of credit in the bank, but this has been another hugely disappointing outcome. And there are some things about the team selection and the way he's kind of approached it that have confused me. I mean, like you look at the Haiti game. Like what? Is there something, anything you'd change now, sat here reflecting? Things you'd changed? I mean, I just find it slightly confusing that we started the tournament with a lot of momentum behind Lauren Shankland.

13:34Gregor Robertson: We'd had a great season and we're scoring goals in the two friendlies leading up to the tournament. Started in a kind of 4-4-2 against Haiti and then wasn't seen at all as we introduced two strikers. After Che Adams introduced Linden Dykes, introduced Ross Stewart, he was just still on the bench in the second game against Morocco. And then he starts against Brazil on his own up front and plays for 90 minutes. Like, it was brought off in the 90th minute. He wasn't replaced until the 90th minute. That's all a bit confused to me. But having said all that, I don't think it matters who we play up front.

14:11Gregor Robertson: They never get the ball. They look isolated. They chase lost causes. they have to fight to win headers and hold on to scraps and it's a difficult, thankless task for anyone and none of them have really the kind of individual quality to cut it at this level either I can see why Steve Clark has kind of floundered and been kind of flapping around in the dark trying to figure out who's best to play up front and I can see why he turned to McKenna after Hanley, ultimately what he's doing is trying to make decisions that make up for our inadequacies and two of the biggest are in terms of a centre forward and the centre of our defence, like we're playing Grant Hanley who's 35 and doesn't always get a game for Hibs in the World Cup alongside Jack Henry who's playing in the Saudi Pro League and is you know, he actually performed well, he got away with a bit of a lucky one tonight.

15:16Gregor Robertson: He has performed well, but these guys aren't really, like, to be brutal about it. They aren't good enough when you get to this level. There are other areas of the team that are, but for everything we're talking about in terms of Steve Clark's decisions, there are reasons for it. We're ultimately not good enough in certain areas of the pitch. Yeah, it's interesting, isn't it? Once you unpick it all, it becomes quite challenging to be Steve Clark, and maybe it's not a job that many people would be desperate for so we'll see what happens in the coming days just finally Gregor earlier in the night Group B played out and Bosnia getting a win that means they finish in third with four points a win against Qatar with some good goals I should just say in the other game I don't know whether you caught Switzerland, Canada did you see that one?

16:04did you see Promise David's goal? I'm having that as goal of the tournament I'm having that as goal of the tournament what a move what a ball over the top touch, cross, outstretched volley from one of the great names of the game, surely. Promise David. I mean, that is absolutely fantastic. If you've not seen it, listeners, please go and check out the highlights to Switzerland against Canada. Also go and check out the highlights to Morocco v Haiti because Gregor Robertson, you can watch two games at once and I was watching Brazil, Scotland, but Morocco, Haiti is a banger. And speaking of good goals, Wilson Isidore's screamer is one of the purest strikes of the football I've seen for a long, long time.

16:43It's proper have it vibes and he absolutely thunder blasts it into the top corner. Fantastic stuff. Definitely go and check out the highlights. So that one, that might cheer you up. But just as a final note then, as I mentioned there with Bosnia finishing in third with those four points, you've hinted there about supercomputers and I mentioned the Steve Clarke quote that Scotland are almost certainly going out in his opinion. Do you think that Scotland deserve to go through as it stands? No.

17:10Gregor Robertson: I mean it's clear so you're going to be watching the rest of the group stage obviously you know not suggesting that you're not a fan so you wouldn't be like oh great fun this would be good but actually sat here now after your three games you don't think they deserve to go through no I mean I saw a line from Steve Clark saying only you know only Scotland can can pull you know can play Haiti in the first game and then have two nations in the top ten after that like yeah we had we had a tough draw but it was they were exciting games and we took it close against Morocco and we kind of stumbled past Haiti with a deflected goal and ultimately no how can we deserve to go through with 3 points and a minus 3 goal difference we discussed it in recent shows, the format is hugely flawed and I think we're starting to see it already just the fact that even the way you're kind of consuming games is influenced by an Opta supercomputer.

18:17Gregor Robertson: It's bizarre. How it can be a 42 % chance, I have no idea. I actually don't really care. I think it's a ludicrous format and we don't deserve to go through it. If we do go through, it would actually be slightly embarrassing right now. A tough night for Scotland. Gregor Robertson, thank you very much for joining us. as always stick with us in part two we're going to be hearing from johnny northcroft in the england camp we'll be back just after this break

18:56checking out online apple pay makes it simple when you tap the apple pay button you can review your card information and shipping details. Need to make a change? Just tap to update your details before you pay. Then, all that's left, simply authenticate your purchase with Face ID to check out in seconds. Make online shopping a breeze with Apple Pay. At PwC, we optimize the systems that put your data to work so you can scale your AI from proof of concept to competitive edge and accelerate your tech evolution so you can redefine what's possible. From blueprint to breakthrough, we take you further with tech.

19:42So you can outthink, outpace, and outperform. PwC. So you can. PwC refers to the PwC network and or one or more of its member firms, each of which is a separate legal entity. Hi, this is Jonathan Fields, host of The Good Life Project. What if your home could welcome you at the door, energize your kitchen and calm your bedroom all automatically. With Pura's family of smart diffusers, you can scent every space perfectly. Choose premium, clean fragrances, adjust the intensity, and set schedules right from your phone. It's whole home scenting designed for the way you live. Build your Pura system today at Pura.com slash whole home.

20:34Welcome back to the Game Football Podcast from the Times and Sunday Times. These are our daily World Cup shows. I'm Tom Clark and for part two I'm joined by our Chief Football Correspondent and Football Journalist of the Year, Johnny Northcroft. Johnny, you joined me from the England camp to talk about England but I cannot not ask you about Scotland. As a proud Scot yourself, you were part of the Scotland Preview shows. We've just heard from Michael Grant in the ground and from Gregor Robertson from his living room. you're in Kansas, how are you feeling? I said to the chaps, Michael described it as torturous and Gregor's final note was that Scotland didn't deserve to go through anything more upbeat from you or about the same?

21:14Absolutely not, I can't disagree with the boys look, I've seen it all before but every time you watch it, it's brutally painful just how Scotland try and aren't good enough really I think we've known that deep down, certainly since the first game, but probably before. And, you know, there was always a hope that Steve Clarke might manage to get one decent result against Morocco or Brazil. But tonight was like, you know, there's a couple of things. Scotland struggled to live up to the fans. And it's another game where we arrive being celebrated off the pitch. and then the whistle blows and yeah, well we see that within seven minutes we concede a pathetic goal and you know that tactic when a coach identifies a weak player in the opposition who you can just give them the ball and then they'll give it back to you it's like Carlo Ancelotti sort of saw 11 of those and just gave us the ball and let us let's work ourselves into our doom so look Gregor's right we don't we don't really deserve to go through we still might um Steve Clarke doesn't think so history tells you something will happen to mathematically mean that we're the last team to miss out but if we do I don't think we can really complain um and it's been I I mean I found the first game torturous and they've got progressively worse.

22:54Fair play to Brazil, but yes, bottom line is technically and probably in terms of courage and tactically, Scotland haven't been good enough in tournaments under Steve Clarke and certainly weren't good enough tonight. Yeah, I'm sure a lot of Scotland fans listening to this will agree with the team there, but if you do have views on Scotland at this tournament, do get in touch with me, tom.clarkatthetimes.co.uk. as I say Johnny you're joining us from the England camp plenty of ponderings for England as well after that draw with Ghana I read out the intro to your brilliant piece the match report on yesterday's show which I think sums things up nicely a couple of points that I wanted to ask you about from developments of the day firstly some news on Rhys James can you give us the latest on that?

23:42Yeah I mean Rhys James has got a tight hamstring he's being assessed we don't know what the severity is at this stage but it seems very unlikely that he'll be fielded against Panama I think that was always unlikely anyway if you look through his recent years he struggles to play three games in a week now ideally England would have got the job done properly last night and they haven't and maybe there would have been a temptation to try and play Rhys James I think the hamstring situation takes that temptation away. He's, you know, one of the things that strikes you is he's a profile different to the other right backs for sure and will get on to the composition of the squad but it feels even more strange that Trevor Chalba was the player brought in when Tino Livermento went home with an injury because now you're looking at a right back cover that is going to be a centre-back possibly playing.

24:47Either Jarrell Konza or we believe perhaps Esri Konza is even further ahead. And that changes the balance of what England are going to be and, as I say, makes you wonder, again, why there's not proper right-back cover, why Trent Alexander-Arnold isn't here. Yeah, well, let's get on to the composition of that squad because that's the theme of your day two analysis on the Times website now. headlined, have England got too many vibes men and not enough game changers I mean this is Thomas Tuchel's problem isn't it, with that squad that he selected you outlined it, Martin Samuel outlined it, I think we must have mentioned it on nearly every preview podcast the squad makes sense until you're 10 minutes away from drawing 0-0 with Garner and you're watching a low block and going, Christ where's Adam Wharton, where's Cole Palmer where's Trent Alexander-Arnold, you know I think I specifically remember you outlining those three players when the squad was selected.

25:45We did a reaction pod and you said, look, it all makes sense. It's all fine. I'm on board, apart from that moment. And England fans had that moment. And there are a lot of fans below the lines, time subscribers, a lot of people in the comments on this podcast as well, echoing that exact point. That is his difficulty now, isn't it, Thomas Tuchel? Yeah, it is. And a difficulty of his own making. and those three players, I put those exact three names to him at the squad announcement and said, look, do you think you've left yourself short of that player that plays a different pass that can just do something a little bit outside the box or something a little bit riskier than the others?

26:26Just rip up the script. And what I've tried to delve into in my piece today is that Tuchel's very much a plan A man. he's got a particular way of playing that he wants to perfect actually so if it's not working you know typically he looks at penetration from passing triangles and the wide players and his version of if it's not working is to change the wide players or to try and do better at set pieces or whatever and that idea of needing a different type doesn't really sit with him so what he's done in the squad is is chosen you know players of similar profile and then made the rest of the squad up with guys who are there for culture, for vibes.

27:08I was looking at the bench yesterday. You've got three reserve centre-backs now, three non-playing centre-backs at the moment in Danburn, Chalabar and Quansa, three. And then there's John Stone sitting there as well. You've got Ivan Toney, who Tuchel's looking on only for very, very particular circumstances like penalty shootouts or last five minutes of a knockout game where you need a goal you've got Jordan Henderson there for the culture you've got fourth choice goalkeeper added for the culture so he's he's focused on perfecting plan a and getting this this sort of happy group and who knows it might work for him but the danger is that that he's has he left himself enough tools in the box that's what I wonder it certainly felt like they could have done something something different yesterday.

28:02He didn't like the question when it was put to him by ITV's Gabriel Clark about lack of imagination. That's not how he sees the game. But surely when you've got 26 players and then you get to replace a player, surely amid all of that, there was room for somebody who offers a little bit different. And I think what England have to hope for now is that, yes, this is a team that is set up to do well against top sides. And when there's a bit of space, he's got players who need space running players so maybe against the good opponents the better opponents this side will work but what if that round of 32 game is against a team that plays a bit like Ghana DR Congo maybe and Algeria maybe Cape Verde if you repeat last night's game you end up in a penalty shootout yeah I just wanted before we get onto Panama and potentially go going forward just wanted to ask about Ivan Tony it was a topic that I had mentioned to Gregor and Alison in the post-match reaction show and Alison used phrases talking about in these games when there's a low block don't be so ponderous create a bit of chaos just try and disrupt Ghana I mean I was watching it thinking if Ivan Tony's your wild card or one of three wild cards is the last 10 minutes against a low block not the time for a wild card.

29:25Or at least Oli Watkins and Harry Kane. I just found that really interesting that Rodgers came on, Ezi came on, Rashford came on, Saka came on. But as you say, it's just like-for-like replacements, really. So how do you change that? Is there a scenario in which we will see Harry Kane and another striker, do you think? Or will it only be the last five minutes against Algeria when England are 1-0 down? No, I think there's got to be. I totally agree with Alison. that was an Ivan Toney scenario the last 10 minutes England did manage to get the ball into the box more it was curious he didn't come on Tuchel did make one kind of unorthodox change which was taking Elliot Anderson off and putting Eze on so he could play with two number 10s but it didn't really work and yeah I was a bit confused because when he explained the Ivan Toney selection to us he said not only is it because of what Tony offers in terms of aerial prowess, blah blah blah but it's what he does to Harry Kane it's the fact that Harry suddenly becomes a free player in the box and not the guy that's being marked by everyone and I thought that was the scenario for it last night so it's a curious one Tuchel didn't seem that bothered and maybe we are getting too bothered because this is what happens in tournaments, England, when the first game we get too excited, they flop in the second, we get too despondent, and then they're all right in the end, maybe took us looking at this going, come on lads.

31:00And Harry Kane said to calm down last night as well. But I was left a bit concerned. In terms of moving forwards now, obviously another reflection that we were having yesterday is that Panama becomes a different game now. Martin Samuel, our colleague, has written about this on the Times website now, you know, we can't afford any complacency as an England camp also maybe can't afford as many changes. I mean, Declan Rice walking out of the ground last night with a bit of a kind of ice pack on him. Hamza, our colleague, reporting that he told him as he walked past, no, no, I'm fine. But I get the impression that Declan Rice is the kind of guy that could have the flu and he'd say, oh, no, I'm fine, I'm fine, I'm absolutely fine.

31:38It does change this game now, doesn't it? Because whilst Rhys James might well be rested, and as you said earlier, that might have always been the case, some of these other big players, we talked about the physical load and strain that they're under, maybe those changes can't be made. What do you expect selection-wise for this Panama game? Yeah, I think ideal world, Declan Rice does get rested because this sort of problem he's got is not new. He was suffering towards the end of the season. I think in an ideal world, maybe Harry Kane was going to get rested in this game or at least spared the full 90 minutes.

32:14And I'm not quite sure that's possible. Tuchel will rotate. he's told us that but I think he's slightly limited because Panama are actually ranked above Ghana, I think the rankings are probably false but they aren't mugs as you say and England there's also something called momentum you've got to try and play yourself in the form and pick up momentum and England lost all the momentum that they've had from the second half against Croatia So yeah, I think he's a bit limited and that's a risk as well because after that we're about to go into this cycle where England will have the most packed schedule because that's the consequence of being the last group to play.

33:01And when the games are coming every three days, I think you want your players to be as fresh and rested as possible going into that. so I just think last night needlessly complicated everything for England and Martin's right, we've seen them do it before Yeah, I'll tell you as well Johnny after watching the Panama-Croatia game after wrapping up the work last night England are going to get kicked Panama, bad-hide attack Listen, we learnt that a couple of years ago they ain't changed, I'm telling you that Luka Modric got absolutely booted all over the pitch as did the rest of the Croatia team so listen, Declan Rice, whether he plays or not be careful, watch those ankles and knees just a final question then on some specifics and some players lots of people talking throughout this tournament about Marcus Rashford, Anthony Gordon starts again for those two games I don't think necessarily has produced anything that maybe he can do maybe Barcelona fans will be hoping he can do next season you talk about resting Declan Rice Kobi Maynou is a player who sat on the bench currently, hasn't featured yet and does at least have that kind of spark, desire to take the ball on a turn.

34:10Do you think we might see some of these players, some tweaks? Yeah, I mean, the other aspect is you need to play players in case then you do have an injury and suddenly they become a starter. Cobb-Aimene is a great example of that. I would say he has to be the first cab off the ranking midfield. So he needs to play, he needs some minutes, and he probably should have come on last night, because as you say, Tom, he's good on the half turn. He's more intricate as a passer than the other ones. I see Ossian was a pretty good five-a-side player almost, that he could nip his way through to compact, congested areas with his passing.

34:45And Rashford was pretty miserable as he walked out of the stadium last night, and rightly so. He had to not only wait for Anthony Gordon to be taken off, but he then had to wait for Nonny Maduecki to be taken off, because he switched wings. and Rashford's looked the most in form of all the wide players so far so he has to start surely and then as I say it becomes those judgement calls from Tuchel, I suspect Stones will come back and maybe Konza does go across and he plays safe at the back, maybe goes for height and power to combat the Panamanians but yeah look England are still going to go through and you can talk yourself into despondency but I used the word earlier it's now just a bit more complicated Yeah, a bit more complicated but you can help understand it all with Johnny's piece on the Times website now and plenty of other brilliant coverage from all the Times team in the England camp Johnny Northcroft, thank you very much for joining me thank you too for listening we'll be back with another daily World Cup show tomorrow we'll see you then

36:05At PwC, we optimize the systems that put your data to work so you can scale your AI from proof of concept to competitive edge and accelerate your tech evolution so you can redefine what's possible. From blueprint to breakthrough, we take you further with tech so you can outthink, outpace and outperform. PwC, so you can. PwC refers to the PwC network and or one or more of its member firms, each of which is a separate legal entity. Hi, this is Ben Green from The Athletic FC. The podcast you're about to listen to is brought to you by Hotels.com. As a Hotels.com member, you save up to 20 % on hundreds of thousands of hotels and earn rewards on every single stay, which means the trips you're taking now help pay for the ones you're already dreaming about.

36:52And unlike some other places, there are no blackout dates. So when you want to travel, your rewards are ready to go. so the next time you're planning a work trip or a getaway make sure to book it at hotels.com and start earning rewards hotels.com it's all in the name