WORLD CUP DAY 15: Ecuador joy as Brobbey becomes unlikely hero

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1:17Right now, get one of nine legendary cups when you order the FIFA World Cup meal only at McDonald's. At participating McDonald's only for a limited time while supplies last all rights reserved copyright 2026 mcdonald's at the fifa world cup 2026

1:44hello and welcome to the game a football podcast from the times and sunday times these are our daily World Cup shows and this is Day 15. I'm Tom Clark and in part two of today's show I chat to Ian Whittle about Brazil, Spain and Cape Verde's big night to come. But first let's catch you up on another round of final group stage matches. Lots of impressive performances last night but I think the win of the evening and one of the great displays of this group stage came from Ecuador beating Germany 2-1 to progress. I must say I hadn't been that impressed with Ecuador in previous games against Ivory Coast and Curaçao, but they lived up to their Dark Horses tag in this game.

2:25A great second-half fight back. Head coach Sebastian Becker-Chesse, he had said he would quit if they'd failed to get out of the group, so he was in jubilant mood at full-time, jumping into the stands to celebrate with friends and family. Really lovely scenes there. A defeat for Germany, though, and they still finish top of Group E with Ivory Coast second. Our German football expert Konstantin Eckner, he spoke to me before the tournament. He wrote a piece for the Times website which was headlined One of the Great Mysteries of this tournament. How good are Germany? I was chatting to him yesterday and they said, Konstantin, I don't think we actually know the answer to this question yet.

3:02And he agreed. So he's going to be writing another piece for the Times website on a bit of a confusing group stage for Julian Nagelsmann's side. Worries over goalkeeper Manuel Neuer as well. You can read that on the Times website later today. Group F had been labelled by some, me included on this podcast as the group of death but Netherlands finished top after a 3-1 win against a Tunisia side who conceded 12 goals and leave with no points. Paul Hurst was at this game for us and he sent me these thoughts. Hi Tom speaking to you from underneath the Arrowhead Stadium in the mixed zone which is where the players come to get interviewed after the match walk through a car park that was very very wet earlier with a huge thunderstorm about two hours before kickoff.

3:47Luckily that passed, kicked off on time and the Netherlands looked pretty good I'd say going forward. I certainly came here thinking that they looked good defensively, that they generally looked solid and they were a bit, I didn't know how good they would be in attack but I actually found the opposite to the case tonight. I was surprised at how weak they were defensively and how good they were up front. I think the front three are Brian Broby, Daniel Marlon on the right and Cody Atpo on the left worked really well I thought they was an excellent unit and so they were they were good value for the win Brobby with his third goal of the tournament to put the Dutch 2-0 up after an early on goal they did look a little bit vulnerable and the goal that they conceded from a corner was really soft in the second half as a free header so Ronald Koeman given his background as a very good centre half will not be happy with that but his team are through and they've avoided Brazil in the next round.

4:46Their next opponents aren't going to be easy. It's going to be Morocco in the last 32. That'll be a difficult game. They'll have to defend better against them given they've got players like Ashraf Hakimi overlapping on the right wing etc. So they'll have to up their game a little bit. That's something that Koeman's got to deal with in the next few days. For now he's happy that his team are through and they are top of Group F. Thanks to Paul Hurst there. You can read some analysis from him on Netherlands striker Brian Brobby, one of the unexpected stars of this World Cup. Paul has also reported the news of Elliot Anderson's potential£116m move from Nottingham Forest to Manchester City.

5:27Both of those pieces are on the Times website now. The other game in that group finished Japan 1, Sweden 1. Japan finishing second. They'll now face Brazil. Graham Potter's Sweden side in third and through. James Geerbrandt was there reporting for the Times and he offered this analysis at full time so Sweden are through to the knockout stage and I think to a large extent have probably restored some of the good vibes after that rather chastening defeat against the Netherlands and you know we shouldn't underplay what a modern achievement that is for a manager who Graham Potter, who was sacked from his last two Premier League jobs, sacked from Chelsea and then sacked from West Ham, you know, this last season, and a team that finished bottom of their World Cup qualifying group with two points from six matches.

6:28You know, this was a marriage of a team and a coach, you know, both at a pretty low ebb. And so, you know, to have not only qualified for the World Cup, but to have now come through into the knockout stages is a significant achievement and a kind of feel-good story. I do think, having said that, there are underlying that some causes for concern for Sweden in the last two matches against the Netherlands and Japan. Sweden have had about 26 shots, but with an average XG value of about 0.05, so roughly a 5 % scoring chance. And the shots they've conceded have had an average XG value of 0.21. So in other words, the chances they've conceded have been about four times as good as the chances they've created.

7:22They've got two top-class centre-forwards or strikers, but they struggle to create really good chances for them, or at least have done in the last two matches. Japan has ever played a really pleasing, neat, precise technical style of football scored a lovely goal through Maeda a really cracking pass from Ritsu Doan and maybe will count themselves a little bit unlucky to have finished as runners up in this group with five points and a very healthy goal difference of plus four but they will now try to win a World Cup knockout match at the fifth time of asking. But it's not an easy assignment for them up against Brazil.

8:11The night concluded with Group D and I've got to tell you listeners, one of the worst games I've seen so far. I've seen all of them. England v Ghana had got the top spot, the award for worst game, but Paraguay nil, Australia nil takes the prize away from Thomas Tuchel's side. Relief for England in that respect. This game, I've been saying to people on this podcast, watch the highlights watch the highlights not only am I saying don't watch the highlights I don't even think there could be any highlights this game really was a damning reflection of the new format of this competition two teams playing for a draw to secure progress the other game in that group was a dead rubber but still entertaining Turkey salvaged some pride with a 3-2 win in the last minute against co-host USA Peter Rutzler was there watching this one and he sent me this full-time report just walked out of Maurizio Pochettino's post-match press conference.

9:05He was a little sharp, actually, in that post-match review. I think he just wanted someone to say congratulations for winning the group. Generally, the mood should be quite positive anyway. I think most of the questions actually were too. Generally, about the fact that they competed quite well with the Turkey team, despite making nine changes. Some of them perhaps left a little slight disjointed feel to the team. Austin Trustee at left back not that comfortable there, Tim Weyer not so comfortable and managed to get 40 minutes into the legs of Christian Pulisic and then obviously Undone in the 90th minute with a late winner for Turkey.

9:45overall I thought they've competed quite well Sebastian Berhalter looked impressive an assist and a goal for him particularly at the start of the second half they seem to pin Turkey back and for Turkey it was a hell of a lot of irony considering that they went two games, 62 shots no goals and then scored with their first two here in Los Angeles but Gennon Montella says they can go home with their chin up I think for them it's been a really quite disappointing tournament. A lot more was expected of them and how they would compete. And particularly in this group, this was thought to be the US's toughest game.

10:22But for the US, they've managed to put minutes into players' legs and rotate players. They look okay. Some familiar weaknesses, some other positives as well in terms of their ability to score goals. They've now scored more goals at the World Cup in this tournament than in any of their previous tournament appearances, including 1930 and 2002, their best displays otherwise. So a lot to take forward. And I assume Pochettino is a bit more positive than he sounded in his presser. So all that means we now know a few round of 32 matches for certain. South Africa v Canada, that kicks us off on Sunday night.

11:03Brazil v Japan, as I mentioned, that's on Monday. Netherlands v Morocco, what an exciting tie that is. That's Tuesday. and USA versus Bosnia and Herzegovina on Thursday. Scotland fans, I've got to say, currently at the time of recording this, you apparently got just a 5 % chance of making it through according to Opta. But of course, if you listened to this podcast yesterday with Gregor Olsen, you'll know that that was 0 % already. I just wanted to wrap up part one of today's show with some of your messages. It's always great to hear from listeners and Times readers. And first up is Jonathan, a South Africa fan who got in touch with me quite rightly after my comments praising South Africa fans for sticking by what I thought was a pretty poor team I've got to say Jonathan I still stand by that I still don't think South Africa would be particularly impressive at this tournament but of course they did get a 1-0 win against South Korea to reach the knockout stage a brilliant achievement for them regardless of how I think they performed and Jonathan sent me this message saying needless to say after hearing your comments on the podcast Tom almost exactly 12 hours after our game against South Korea kicked off I am feeling sleep deprived yet thrilled by Bafana's milestone win.

12:11Waking my son up at nearly 3am, watching with high hopes but low expectations and jumping around and hugging each other in jubilation still hours before the sun came up was very special and right up there with my top 5 sporting highlights, even though I was at Soccer City when Chabalala scored that goal against Mexico. I do still fear a repeat of the Mexico or Czech Republic games, maybe more likely on Sunday, but for now this is dreamland congratulations jonathan south africa's progression really is one for the dreamers thanks for sharing that lovely tale with us murdoch is a scotland fan who messaged to say thank god tom for gregor and johnny calling out scotland's campaign for what it was terrible he says as a scotland fan i was beginning to tire of the whole plucky team with amazing supporters line from seemingly everyone the haiti performance was poor the morocco game was average at best and they only went for it 20 minutes into the second half and the team selection with no Gannon Doak was weird at best.

13:11Yet another tournament under Steve Clarke where the team is too rigid, lack any kind of ambition and have zero movement. It felt for all the world like we were just happy to be there and bask in the glory of our supporters. Raphael agreed he was commenting below the line on the Spotify episode yesterday saying that I'm Brazilian and I was watching this game hoping Scotland would go through but scoring one goal against Haiti no one deserves to go through like that and the fact it's still possible shows how flawed this new World Cup format is I'm sure we're going to be seeing more comments about the format in the coming days as the group stage winds up thanks for all your comments and questions it's great to hear from you as I say especially fans from all different nations and if you've got anything you'd like to share with us or any questions for Gregor or the rest of the team then do get in touch with me tom.clark at thetimes.co.uk uk rafael i hope you've been listening to this episode as well because we'll be discussing a bit of brazil just after this quick break stick with us hi this is jonathan fields host of the good life project what if your home could welcome you at the door energize your kitchen and calm your bedroom all automatically.

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15:05The cups feature some of the biggest legends in football, like David Beckham, Terry Henry, and Ronaldinho, Christian Pulisic, Lamine Yamal, and Alfonso Davies. Right now, get one of nine legendary cups when you order the FIFA World Cup meal only at McDonald's. At participating McDonald's, only for a limited time while supplies last. All rights reserved. Copyright 2026. McDonald's at the FIFA World Cup 2026. Quick question. When was the last time a display ad changed your mind? Now think about the last time a friend told you about something they loved. Different feeling, right? That's how podcast advertising works.

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16:17Welcome back to the Game Football Podcast from the Times and Sunday Times. These are our daily World Cup shows. I'm Tom Clark and I'm joined for part two of today's episode by another one of the great travellers of the Times World Cup team, Ian Whittle, who we've heard from voice note fashion from many games across the tournament so far. uh ian i wanted to ask first about brazil we obviously did the show yesterday with gregor we had johnny we had michael grant we had lots of scottish misery and i realized this morning indeed we've had a listener and a brazil fan commenting below the show very nicely about scotland actually but i realized hang on a minute we've not even talked about brazil one of the contenders for this tournament you know it was a good win for them i felt like they were in first gear for literally all of this game um but what did you make of them it was an interesting performance but did we learn that much about them probably not probably not i mean i think you're exactly right first gear probably sums it up i've seen a lot of casemiro this season and last night he might have made even less effort than he did for united when he wasn't playing well so that gives you some idea i mean he barely broke well he will have broken sweats it was so hot there but he he really didn't have to stretch himself too much what i found really interesting I'd written something for our blog today about it, was the mixed zone afterwards was suitably chaotic, hundreds of Brazilian journalists.

17:38But there was a real sort of carnival, I'm probably exaggerating things a little bit there, but there was a real sort of relaxed atmosphere. The players came through, even if they didn't stop to speak. They were sort of saying hello to journalists that they knew. Gabriel Martinelli stopped for me and another English journalist because he heard our English voices and we asked him to speak. He only gave us a minute, but everyone was very relaxed in there. They just seemed like a team that knows they're improving and heading in the right direction. And possibly, and I'm sure a lot of your guests have spoken about this already, this tournament, tournament plays about peaking at the right time.

18:12There's no point playing your best football in the group stage or in the first game of the knockout stage because you need to pace yourself. And it looked to me, and the vibe around Brazil last night, was that they are pacing themselves well. Yeah, it also struck me that it's very Carlo Ancelotti-esque, this Brazil team at the minute. You know, it reminded me quite a lot of his Real Madrid teams where sometimes you watch them and think, I don't know whether they're all that. But then actually you're like, well, I still wouldn't like to play them because they've still got Vinicius. They've still got, I thought Cunha, a player who obviously being on the Manchester patch is someone you've seen a lot.

18:43I thought he looked as good as I've ever seen him really for Manchester United, you know, playing in that kind of slightly false nine role. You know, they've got threat all over the pitch, haven't they? I thought that. Again, I wrote about Cunha last night in the blog because I was really impressed with him. He scored, I think, three in his last four games for United. So he ended the season on a high, scored two against Haiti, one last night. I thought he looked very, very good. And you're right, they're doing just enough at the moment, which is, again, is all you can do in the group stages is just beat what's in front of you.

19:13Kunio certainly didn't want to watch. Neymar obviously came on last night. That's a great sort of wild card to add to the mix. I was quietly impressed, although you have to contact, put it in the context of all the Scottish misery which you've already analysed quite enough thank you very much yeah exactly um so plenty more to come from Brazil we think also plenty more to come we think from Spain another team that you've seen this tournament you watched their last game their win against Saudi Arabia they are playing later on against Uruguay and really interesting game that one I've watched Uruguay twice I don't think Spain will have any problems in this one but what did you make of Spain in that game obviously Luminum Al started and then came off it felt like Like, you know, get him on the pitch and they're all right.

19:55Yeah, exactly that. I mean, it was interesting. I listened in to the press conferences. I wasn't at the Cape Verde game, but I listened in to the press conferences. And the entire 75 % of the press conference was the Spanish media asking De La Fuente, why didn't he start? You know, how long can he play? How long before he's fit? How long before he can start a game? And we got the answer in the very next game. And there was a palpable buzz. It was in Atlanta, the game last Sunday, Saturday. I've lost track of days, Sunday, I think. And there was a real buzz around the whole stadium the minute he touched the ball, which was after about 40 seconds.

20:30He skinned a defender twice, crossed it. They could have scored from it. And then, of course, he did score an early goal. It will be interesting. He's got to start in the last game today, surely. But I think this last game, the first game you can write off as an aberration, first match nerves, Kate Verde, won the story, won the defensive performance, great goalkeeper performance. The second game, Saudi Arabia. The Saudi were terrible. I mean, they really looked like they had stage fright. They froze defensively. Tons of mistakes, unnecessary turnovers at the back. They sort of shot themselves in the foot to a large degree.

21:03But Spain were very impressive. I think this Uruguay game will be a much better... And I take your points and reservations about Uruguay, but I think this will be a much clearer indication of which way Spain are trending. As long as your mile stays fit, you'd have to say they're trending up. Yeah. In terms of both those teams then, or any other teams that you've seen perhaps, who falls into the category of best team that you've seen? Obviously difficult to judge, as you say, Spain and Brazil playing against opposition, who disappointed, but which would you pick? It depends which day you see them on, on which day you catch them on, doesn't it?

21:34I would say for now Brazil. I would have to say Brazil just based on last night. But again, the context is Saudi were terrible against Spain defensively. Scotland were terrible last night against Brazil defensively. So there's a long way. I think this is one of the issues of an expanded tournament where by definition the depth has decreased exponentially by a third or whatever the increase of number of teams is. So a lot of these group games are going to be really difficult to assess properly. I think the real business starts on Sunday in the last 32, doesn't it? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, in terms of your experience covering football, which is lengthy, and being at big tournaments and things, what's your experience of this tournament been?

22:12You touched on one of the problems there with this expanded format. Do you think it's been well received so far in America? Do you think it's going well? I think overall the football's been good. I mean, everyone will have their own. In fact, you'll have a better opinion than me because you've seen every single game. I've only seen a handful and three lives. I think overall the football has been good despite my reservations about the expanded format. This third place qualifier thing, you know, a huge issue last night for the Scots was they now have to go back to Charlotte. And I'm sure you talked about this with the guys.

22:42They have to go back to Charlotte and sit for three days, not knowing, although they may well know before Saturday, not knowing whether they advance or not. So that's a bit unsatisfactory. It's a very messy draw, isn't it, because of all the permutations. So I'm not sure about that going forward, but ultimately that's down to Infantino and money, so I suspect it's not going anywhere, that format. The tournament generally, pretty good. Usual headaches of queues to get places and traffic, first world problems like that. What I will say is generally the tournament suffered because it went head-to-head over here in the first couple of days with the NBA Finals, and I'm sure you guys followed bits of it from over there.

23:20The New York Knicks won the Finals for the first time since 1973, and the American media, the American sports, well, general media, but certainly the sports media went crazy for it. So the World Cup really suffered from that. It was very much in the shadow of that. But slowly, obviously, the Knicks thing gets consigned to history. The US have won their first two games, and now there are genuine conversations about can the US win the World Cup on TalkSport every five minutes. So I think bit by bit, the country is embracing it. But it's still, you know, if you go away from the big cities, if you go away from the big match centres, it is still a pretty tough sell.

23:58You know, you could wander around parts of Dallas when I was there last weekend, which is a huge sprawling city, Dallas and Fort Worth. If you weren't within a sort of two-mile radius of the stadium, you wouldn't know the World Cup was taking place. So it'll be interesting. I think a lot will hinge on how good the US turn out to be. That's an unknown at this point, isn't it? Yeah, if they can keep that momentum going, it could be massive. And the fun thing is, as you say, I've watched all these games, I've watched everything so far. There's still so long to go. I keep having to explain to my wife that there's still at least basically a month left until this whole thing finishes.

24:30It's an absolute marathon, not a sprint. Let's finish off by talking about the game you're going to in the next 24 hours, the big one as far as I'm concerned. This is the biggest game of the entire group stage. Cape Verde with a shot at qualification for the knockouts. A phenomenal, phenomenal story. You've written a piece previewing this game for the Times website and you've been around the camp and went to the press conference, I believe, is that right? A couple of them, yeah, two times, yeah. I mean, the mood, you talked about the mood in the Brazil ranks, you know, in the mix zones and things after the game.

25:04Presumably, it's absolute pure joying with it around Cape Verde. you you could not begin to describe it hopefully i tried in a piece today hopefully it gets conveys some of the mood um yeah i mean not only in with a chance of qualifying but thinking in with a chance of winning the group if results go their way are they not i've not done the full mathematical permutations yet but i think if uruguay win and beat spain and and cape verde beat saudi which on current form you would back uh the cape verde win certainly uh then they win the group which would just be phenomenal i what i found interesting i hope it came across in the piece is they're here to have fun they're here to have a great experience they're here to represent a very small country you know a country that that has some some problems back at home as they explained to me but um once it comes down to the football you will not find a more serious bunch of pros at this tournament that the Tampa Bay staff were telling me you know they kind of fool in the open session that we were allowed to attend they fool around and they have light-hearted competitions and and they they generally enjoy themselves but the Tampa Bay staff were saying the minute that our backs are turned, it is really professional.

26:11It is no messing around. It is all business. And crikey, we saw the net result of that in the first two games, didn't we? I really took to them. They had time for everyone. The players and the manager shake all the media's hands. People are rushing over with, their training staff are rushing over with bottles of water for us because it was 90-odd degrees the other day and there was no shade. I mean, just a really pleasant bunch of people. So I'm a little bit biased now, having spent a couple of days with them. But you can't deny just one of the best stories of the tournament so far. Absolutely.

26:44As I introed the other day, we are all Cape Verde, and I think all listeners are as well with this big game. So it's reassuring to hear that Vazinha, Pico Lopez, all these people who become household names, the fame's not gone to their head then. Oh, goodness, no. I mean, Pico Lopez was fascinating. He was chatting away to the local Cape Verde media in what I assume, because I don't speak Portuguese, was perfectly acceptable Portuguese. But the minute myself and somebody else started speaking to him in English, you could tell he was relieved. And he actually said, no, I'd prefer to speak English.

27:13And then he starts speaking this broad Dublin accent, which was the last thing you expect. The guy switches from conversational, very good conversational Portuguese into broad Dublin accent. It was quite a surreal cultural moment, really. But yeah, they're all just as genuine as I'm sure they were the day they arrived. And just finally, I mean, as I mentioned, a long career covering football for you. What do you think? How would this rank if Kate Verde managed to pull this off and beat Saudi Arabia and get to the knockout stages? I mean, at a World Cup level, it's up there, isn't it? I mean, I'm struggling to think of anything that would surpass it.

27:47There have been upsets. I wasn't around in 1950 when the USA beat England, I hated to. And presumably that tops a lot of lists. But yeah, I mean, I just, especially in the modern game, when you're looking at the disparity, we often talk, don't we, in English football about the disparity of wage bills. Well, let's work out at some stage the disparity in the wage bill between the England team or the Brazil team and the Cape Verde team. I think you would struggle to make, to come up with a bigger and better one. Again, I'm thinking of North Korea versus Italy in 1966. But again, they're different times, different comparisons and different sort of sticking posts.

28:25So, yeah, I think this would have to be up there. Yeah. Also, Wits, you know how it goes. Recency bias dictates all. I think once if this happens it's the biggest story in football ever ever until the next one Ian Whittle thank you very much for joining me you can read Ian's updates in the Times live blog tomorrow and his match report on Cape Verde thank you very much for listening to today's show we will be back tomorrow come on Cape Verde

29:01Hey, Pablo Torre here. As a sports journalist, I've covered global sports for many years now. And there is one thing that I can promise you. Nothing compares to the World Cup. And this time, it is even better thanks to McDonald's. You have the chance to take home one of nine legendary cups when you order the FIFA World Cup meal. The cups feature some of the biggest legends in football, like David Beckham, Terry Henry, and Ronaldinho, Christian Pulisic, Lamine Yamal, and Alfonso Davies. Right now, get one of nine legendary cups when you order the FIFA World Cup meal only at McDonald's. At participating McDonald's, only for a limited time, while supplies last, all rights reserved, copyright 2026, McDonald's at the FIFA World Cup 2026.

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