WORLD CUP DAY 17: England win but do they need to improve?

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1:17Hello and welcome to The Game, a football podcast from The Times and Sunday Times. This is day 17 of our daily World Cup shows. And well, it wasn't always that pretty, but England move into the knockout phase of the 2026 tournament as Group L winners after a 2-0 victory against Panama. I'm Tom Clark and joining me today we have the senior sports writer and Sunday Times columnist Alison Rudd and the former footballer turned journalist Gregor Robertson. But first, let's hear the thoughts of our chief sports correspondent Matt Lawton, who was in New Jersey covering England's win. I thought that was much better from England.

1:52It took a while to get going, just over an hour for that first goal to come. But Jude Bellingham once again, the star player for England. And they're through. Group winners, exactly where they wanted to be. Heading to Atlanta to another air-conditioned stadium. Still room for improvement, but I think I agree with Phil Neville's point that he made on our blog that they were always in control. they were getting the ball more to Harry Kane the dynamic between Bellingham and Morgan Rogers was interesting obviously Declan Rice is going to come back into the side he was rested tonight but yeah I think Thomas Tuchel could be feeling far more positive and as Phil says this was another very negative display from a very defensive team really hard to break down they found a way this time and the fact of the matter is come the actual knockout stages teams will have to come out more than they have in these last two games and I think then we will see the England that Tuchel has created I still have my reservations about Mexico City in the last 16, I think that's going to be tough because of the conditions Mexico are full of running, full of energy obviously acclimatised to the altitude but England have to be happy with this, they're moving in the right direction.

3:11They're in the last 32. Group winners looking strong. So some reasons to be pleased, Matt says there. Improvements from Ghana, he spotted. Alison, you were very impressed after Croatia. I would say bemused after Ghana. I think that's probably a fair assessment. How about now? Given what's come before and how, what was nice about the Croatia game was that you felt there was a trajectory in that match, that England were asked to express themselves, win or lose on your own terms, guys, have faith in yourselves, go for it. And so we saw the sort of energy and passion you get in the Premier League week in, week out.

3:59So the bubble bursts slightly in the next game and you think, okay, well, Ghana, low block, difficult to play against. let's go back to the message from the game against Croatia and it actually felt like I wasn't really sure what message was being sent out Anthony Barry at half time said that England players were a bit too excited and a bit too thrilled to be there a bit too wanting too much and needed to calm it down a bit well weren't they saying the opposite after the first half against Croatia okay the second half against panama was better than the first and if that's going to be a pattern through the knockout stages then great england should go deep into the tournament but i think by now i would have liked to have seen more relationships on the pitch more self-confidence there was um a jitteriness and there was a lack of entertainment hence my overriding feeling was one of ennui.

5:05Yeah, I think there'll be a lot of people around the country who are in pub, beer gardens and things, Saturday night, 10pm, they've got their shirts on, ready and then actually thinking, should we go somewhere else for a dance? Maybe at half time. I'm so pleased you mentioned Anthony Barry as well. Someone, someone in that England camp has got a lot to answer for because someone has clearly had a word with Anthony Barry after that first game against Croatia and went, Anthony, that's not how we do things in modern football. we do platitudes we do nonsense you just fill the airtime and don't say anything interesting and he's because he's where's he gone that is one of the true travesties of this tournament anyway we'll get back to the game Gregor Robertson analyzing an England nil nil is one of your favorite things to do on this podcast probably the second favorite thing to do is trying to extrapolate some meaning from a two nil group win against a lowly team like Panama how are you

5:54Gregor Robertson: feeling I'm glad you framed it that way to start with because there's not that much to extrapolate I mean Wow thank you very much for listening to the game podcast we'll be back tomorrow No I mean it's the truth the reality is Jude Bellingham is your biggest personality your biggest star your biggest force of nature he's your biggest hope period because he is the guy who always turns up and always in the clutch moments when you need somebody to do something to produce a moment of quality to produce a goal or set one up it's him it's almost always him and you know often Harry Kane's the guy on the end of it so like that's not new I think we kind of we know that by now and there were some people who were kidding themselves about that before the tournament I think they've been reminded of you know how the land lies and you know Morgan Rodgers got an opportunity and didn't take it he won't be playing next week in the next game I'm sure Declan Rice will be back if he's fit and available and Jude Bellingham will be back in the kind of number 10 role beyond that I found it really perplexing actually that Gerald Kwanza was on the pitch like how I don't know how he's playing right back given all the kind of right backs you've had available and kind of still have available even if they're not actually in the squad is pretty remarkable to me even if they were going to kind of had this idea of playing Nico O 'Reilly going to be slightly more advanced or stepping into midfield and Kwanza is who is really a centre half can shuffle across I still just think that was odd and Jed's, actually there is quite a lot to extrapolate, Jed Spence played his way out of the team in that cameo, like you could see his teammates and Tuchel and everyone kind of pulling their hair out with some of the, he put a pass back to Concer when they were 2-0 up that almost kind of, you know, just put him right in the mess and like it was just nonsense and a few kind of over hit ones and things like that So, yeah, I think England are, as is so often the case, a bit of a puzzle.

8:05Gregor Robertson: And it'll be fascinating to see as the level of opponent kind of ratchets up. Whether you're up to it, I'm not sure. Tom, as you were watching that, as a proud Englishman, did you... Not sure about that, but carry on. But did you, you have come across that way on previous podcasts, let me point that out. But did you not feel, I was hoping for more, I don't know, more composure at the back, more control in midfield and more incisiveness at the top? I will we'll come on to the concerns at the back in a minute because that was a bit alarming at times but yes I mean Gregor mentioned it there Morgan Rogers as much as I love him because of his past clubs that he's played for earlier in his career that was disappointing I thought there were large parts of the game where I didn't even realize he was on the pitch or certainly forgot he was on the pitch Marcus Rashford was a bright point for me at least in the first half I think he kind of got a little bit sloppy as the game went on but I think he still looks a better option than Anthony Gordon and I think opposition defenses will be more worried about facing Marcus Rashford he looked to be trying to do things as the cliche goes um so I think that was at least a bright spark um but I agree with you and I agree with your assessment of it being slightly boring at times um but you we kind of wanted a bit more from England we wanted some goals and I think you know my kind of assessment of the performance is probably similar to my assessment of Anthony Barry at halftime where it was the kind of swashbuckling you know where Why has it all gone platitudes and sideways passes and ponderous?

9:43As you both said in the first game, you know, Gregor, I remember you saying, oh, England are going to be fun. And then we've had a nil-nil against Ghana and we've just squeaked through with two nil against Panama. Like, I think that's the major disappointment for me, having seen all the games. England not that fun. And despite all the talk about the attacking talent, not that much by way of excitement in attack. We knew the defence was going to be a weak point. and so it is proving. Yeah, I think that's the real shame in this one. England expected to beat Panama and they did, but not in the manner that I think a lot of fans would have been hoping for.

10:18Gregor, I wanted to ask about that defensive point that Alison raised there. You just said yourself, Jed Spence with an odd cameo, Gerald Kwanza, we don't know how serious that injury is, but never a good sign, is it, when a player immediately signals that he's in trouble and needs to come off. And Panama got through a number of times. they could and maybe should have scored a goal in this one despite England never necessarily having defence as the strongest point of their team in previous tournaments they've looked more solid than this haven't they?

10:47Gregor Robertson: Yes, yeah I mean even like what was the most perplexing part of it for me was I mean there were little half chances in the first half and moments on the counter but when you were 2-0 up and should have had all the control and comfort that Alison's talking about there he began to look kind of panicked and sort of stretched and a bit of a mess. And they had, you know, quite unfortunate Panama not to score that offside goal. Great finish. What a great finish. I was gutted for the lad. There's been a few of those in this tournament where I've just been like, oh, lads, just leave it. Just let them have it.

11:23Honestly, for Christ's sake. Honestly, just a few of them. You know, same with the Iraq sending off, you know, yesterday. I was like, oh, come on, leave it, leave it.

11:31Gregor Robertson: Remember the way Panama celebrated when they were 6-0 down when they scored against England the last time in 2018. That was their first ever goal at the World Cup. I don't think it would be far off that. You know, they've been far more organised than... We should say this. Like, a lot of the conversation, you're playing against Croatia in the first game who are an opponent who think you're of... who would feel themselves of a similar level and sort of stature and they've obviously achieved great things in recent years and they've tried to play against you. your next two opponents that was not the case you're trying to break down a back five at least for most of the game and it was difficult and it is difficult so I think that's you know that point has to be made but I mean when you see the way some other teams some contenders have gone about that like look at France in particular I mean it's just a completely different level and they do seem to have all that fun and that speed and that incisiveness and well England have that in flashes and I agree with you about Rashford he was trying to make things happen he was quick he kept cutting in from the right and he put in a couple of dangerous crosses a couple of disappointing crosses he had that shot in the first half at the near post that one on the outside with his left foot in the second half he's not he has often stepped up for England but you don't have anywhere near the same sort of level of faith that he will do it in the clutch moments in the same way as Jude Bellingham so that's the thing I think I look at Jude Bellingham and you feel that you feel that certainty you look at everyone else Saka if he's fit is the next one but he didn't do a great deal when he was on tonight so yeah a lot of kind of uncertainty I would say about even what your kind of your best team is now which is a bit a bit worrying really going into the knockout stage yeah knockout phase yeah Well, that leads to your point, doesn't it, Alison, that maybe you're supposed to, by the end of a group stage, have worked a few things out.

13:32And actually, do you agree with Gregor's point that actually we're maybe more puzzled than we were at the start? Yeah, I mean, I'm slightly concerned that what Tuchel wants or wanted, he's decided he can't have. And so whatever instructions he's giving the players, the effect is one of inhibition rather than expression. because there are 48 teams at this World Cup and I think over half of them, regardless of the size of nation or the calibre and cost of the individual players, you've been able to watch them and think, oh, they all know each other and they know what they're doing and they understand that they've not got any good wingers or they understand that they have to defend deep and concentrate and just hope for the best on the occasional counter-attack or they have faith in their absolute brilliance and ping, ping, ping the ball around and dazzle you.

14:42There's an identity there with a lot of the teams, even the ones that maybe are going out now. But with England, I think you could have tuned in at any point over the three games and seen something completely different each time. And that has always been, always, almost always been England's downfall is that you look at them and you don't see, first of all, you don't say, oh, yes, that's an Englishness or that's an English style of attack or that's a very England way of defending. That's a very English way of controlling midfield. It doesn't exist as a concept, this thing of Englishness. So what we had yet again for periods in this game against Panama was a lot of well-known, very talented individuals who look slightly surprised to find themselves next to somebody else they've met before occasionally.

15:44There was no unifying factor. and my worry would be it looked worse against Panama than it did in the second half against Croatia. Listeners, there are always so many moments of great pleasure hosting this podcast and getting to work with some of these brilliant colleagues but one of my favourites is recording these podcasts and seeing a Gregor Robertson wry grin spread across his face whilst one of us, whether it's Alison, me, Hamza, Matt Lawton, Martin Samuel is analysing another England performance and Greg is just kind of staring into the abyss with a wry grin on his face.

16:21Gregor Robertson: I just always wonder when the existential moment comes, you know, and it's come quite early already. You're going to ask about what's England's identity. Who are we? What's England's identity? And listen, before you write it in... It's a huge problem! I know Scotland have none of this either, but it's in a different way. We know it. Yeah, no, like, it's... You're making a valid point, but I don't know I don't know if it's worth having that discussion now you're here you want to wait you want to wait till England are knocked out maybe because like I don't think I think I think what Thomas Tuchel has tried to do at least what he said he's tried to do and he's been very clear and explicit about it has turned England into more of a Premier League team and what did we praise them for in the first game looking like a Premier League team they failed to do that in the next couple of games but I think part of that is about the opposition and where he will stand or fall is when he plays against a team who want to play against them.

17:20Gregor Robertson: And then can they look like a Premier League team and beat them in the way the Premier League teams often do in the Champions League? That's going to be the acid test. Yeah, well, as it stands recording this now, England are due to face Senegal. It could be DR Congo, depending on results later on. I mean, if it is Senegal, that could be that kind of opposition, Gregor. They've been impressive in this tournament. they had a decent go at taking on France who were one of the favourites I mean do you think that game in a weird way suits England better than facing Congo? Perhaps although I mean they're certainly a bigger danger so yeah if you're looking at it stylistically maybe it would make for more fun for us but it would be a tough game as England know, as Thomas Tuchel knows Yeah absolutely, well there are plenty more to come if you, any listeners out there have got answers to the big existential questions that we always pose on this podcast.

18:17Do get in touch with me, tom.clark at thetimes.co.uk. We're going to take a quick break. We'll be back in just a sec.

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20:14Welcome back to the Game Football Podcast from the Times and Sunday Times. I'm Tom Clark and I'm joined by Alison Rudd and Gregor Robertson. Now, an important announcement listeners. Monday's show will be going live in the feed slightly later than these daily shows from this World Cup. Me, Gregor and Tony Cascarino are going to give a full preview to the knockout rounds. Of course, we'll review South Africa against Canada too. And we'll hear from our reporters at Tonight's Argentina. and Portugal games. But we thought you'd want this England analysis now, so this show is going to be out early and there's a little bit of a gap in the feed until Monday afternoon when that show will be out and it'll be on YouTube too.

20:50I just wanted to warn everyone out there, don't be alarmed when you don't hear my slightly frazzled, muted northern tones recorded at 3am on your Spotify feed or on your podcast feed anywhere. The much-feared meltdown has not happened, don't Do not worry. Not yet, anyway. Anyway, if you've got any questions for us about the knockouts that I could ask Tony or Gregor on that show, do get in touch with me. Again, that email is tom.clark at thetimes.co.uk. Now, before we wrap up tonight's episode, I wanted to ask a few questions about how the knockouts are panning out. And Gregor, the boys did it.

21:25Cape Verde through to face Argentina. The big question I have is, what size shirt are you, large or extra large? Because I'm getting them in. I found a retailer that sells Cape Verde. shirts i was having a look this morning at 5 a.m i found some what size do you want do you want home or away give me extra large tom it's been a good summer so far extra large home or away a home home yeah great we'll get matching ones that's cute but we're delighted aren't we

21:53Gregor Robertson: yes there we go ah brilliant stuff isn't it like the scenes in the stadium afterwards were just joyous like incredible incredible story I loved seeing Bubista as well with his cigar in the changing room dancing away like yeah they thoroughly enjoyed it and as well they should because I mean they had some great chances to win it as well there was a couple of hairy moments towards the end against Saudi Arabia but they thoroughly deserve to be in the next round the way they've performed against nations like of the calibre of Spain and Uruguay is extraordinary and then they got over the line and there was a bit of a nervous weight of course but we said it the last time there'd been the story of the tournament and that's even truer now.

22:41Yeah, Alison, there's some absolute crackers in the round of 32. A few I'm less convinced about, a few I'm a little bit upset about but we won't get into that now just to finish with some joyous notes although I'm worried. I'm a bit worried for your Norwegian boys. Ivory Coast, Norway, the hipster derby of the last 32. I'm a bit nervous about that. Ivory Coast have been very impressive so far. Yes, but I'm not. Well, I am. Am I worried? It's an important game to me because in my column today. Bold, very bold. I doubled down on the Norway to win the World Cup view and said that it was actually genius that an entire team was rested.

23:24they'll be the only team going into the knockout phases who played a game fewer, effectively played a game fewer than anyone else. That's going to be a massive advantage, especially when there's tight turnaround times. Also, it makes them a bit of an enigma because it means that if they should, I don't know, face France again at the semi-final or final stage, France won't know anything about them. whereas Norway will know everything everything about France that is true I hear that is how modern scouting works actually you only base it on the last game that's it that's how it works generally no mentally mentally and emotionally mentally and emotionally that will give Norway a huge advantage yeah yeah who's this big bloke up top by the way and I keep saying this on this podcast if anyone hasn't checked out Erling Haaland's YouTube page from this tournament honestly the guy is absolutely box office off it there's a brilliant clip doing the rounds of a load of american women coming up to him at the place they're staying a y 'all than your region soccer team and he's like no i'm just the social media guy and it's just it's just the guy i absolutely love him to bits um alison rudd a fan i should say listeners as well it's very good tactically from alison rudd here because she's about to head off to cover wimbledon for the times so she's coming hard on norway doubling down thinking that by the time she returns to this podcast, me and Gregor will have forgotten.

24:50We will not. We will not. Well, you won't have forgotten because they'll be there, won't they? Because they'll be in the semifinals. Of course. Silly me. Alison, other than that brilliant hits the derby, any others that you're particularly excited about? I'm interested to see Ecuador in action because we've seen two sides of them in this tournament and I want to know which one will progress. because there's something about their energy and their attitude that I didn't see so much in the opening games. But in the game against Germany, I thought, oh, my goodness, this is a team that's got triple, triple, triple, triple battery power packs.

25:35They won't give up. They play football like it's 1972. It's just they just go for it. They're not scared of a tackle. They're not scared of swarming. It feels like real throwback, happy, energetic football and it's entertaining and passionate. And I would love a team like that to keep going as far as it's physically possible just to see what you can achieve by just playing with your heart and giving absolutely everything. which brings us back to England that was a very contained England performance and sometimes it's hard to connect to a team when you know they're holding back a little bit. Yeah absolutely I'm so glad you mentioned that point about Ecuador Alison I must confess to being that guy I don't know if I've mentioned it but I have watched every World Cup game so far but when they beat Germany in that game there's so many pundits on X and on social media going oh look at this Ecuador team oh fantastic dark horses and I was sat there shouting at the TV going you weren't there man you weren't there for Curacao you weren't there for the nil nil against Curacao where they couldn't find a way to score come on they're not that good anyway we will see which Ecuador turn up against Mexico Gregor just obviously we'll be getting into the matches in detail with Tony Cascarino as I say on that special Monday preview any others that stand out I mean most of them let's be honest

27:01Gregor Robertson: Netherlands, Morocco is going to be a tracker Netherlands in spells have looked to business

27:12Gregor Robertson: Brian Broby has given them a focal point in attack that they've lacked for years when they've had Memphis Depay playing up the top and he's underwhelmed a bit, Morocco in spells again not for a full game have played some of the best football I've seen at the tournament France, Sweden is even interesting because Sweden have got like match winners we saw Alanga come scoring an absolute beauty in the last game Giocares and Issa they've got people who can cause France a problem but France are just like sublime at the moment like the best forward line you can really ever remember seeing since maybe Brazil 20 years ago with like Ronaldo, Rivaldo and Ronaldinho so those and then Brazil Japan I'm still to be convinced about Brazil to be honest like They might be kind of, you've got the Carlo Ancelotti sort of vibes going on, maybe just sort of feeling their way into the tournament, doing what they have to do.

28:10Gregor Robertson: But Japan have been really good as well, a really exciting team to watch. And Dyson Maeda's goal in the last game was like one of the best passages to play in the tournament. Great kind of, Doan rolled inside, played a little bounce pass and then zipped it into Maeda. It was a great move, great piece of football. And they've been great to watch too. so yeah most of them really is like some some great ties in the which means unfortunately we're going to lose some great teams early on Australia Egypt that is not a great tie I'm upset about that one but anyway we will come on to that in more detail with Tony Cascarino just before we go guys anyone got any tips on what I can do tomorrow night because I'm worried the breakdown will come anyone got any box sets I can watch there's only one game what on earth am I going to do after South Africa against Canada has finished at 8pm.

28:58Just going to stare out the window at 10.30. What am I supposed to do? Any tips? You do what the rest of the country is doing when they're not watching the football or for those people who don't like football, they've been watching the pit. Right. Okay. Do you know what that is? It sounds like what I've been working in for the last couple of weeks. No, no idea. No idea. it is it got is it got you know cultured people with left foots and fun names and really crazy football kits and things because otherwise i'm not interested there there are there are the it's about a hospital an a and e in pittsburgh and um there's a lot of um injured sports people come in so you've got that angle doesn't sound like it to me and you know what as well there is the great thing about um last night's fixtures where you had the french game and things at 8 p.m and then there was such a big gap i honestly was like i you know i did the washing up got ready here prepped the football newsletter and then i genuinely was like i don't know what i'm going to do for an hour so i put on the bbc's world cup classics highlights and you know where you just leave it to play next episode next episode next episode had a lovely time saw tony cascarina the world cup 94 lovely i had a great time yeah there's no trouble is i've no consistency through

30:14Gregor Robertson: those now i've burnt through those it must be strange for you no consistency with the kickoff times you know like that's often the case at a tour i mean we know when they are there's the three games there's blah blah blah but now they can be anything and you've had some some torturous nights i bet tom recently oh no i've had a lovely time lots of ice lollies i've seen lots of ice lollies yeah well i've just you know you've had to had to knock the negronis on the head haven't i because then you would literally be working drunk so i've had gone for ice lollies instead I've seen some good thunderstorms in the middle of the night though but we're surviving I think or maybe I am on the break there's still a long way to go and as you just said there's a strange rhythm to these fixtures Switzerland are playing someone on Friday morning at 4 o 'clock in the morning who knows but I'll be there anyway we'll wrap it up there I can hear producer Neil falling asleep on the other end of the line as we speak and he wants to get on with producing this show and delivering it to you very, very soon.

31:10Thank you very much to Gregor Robertson, Matt Lawton and Alison Rudd for joining me. We will be back tomorrow on Monday, just at that slightly later time. So we'll see you then. But wait, hang on a minute, listeners. We are not finished yet. I just said goodbye, put the laptop down, taken the microphone out and walked back to my editing desk to finish editing for the night and watch a bit of DR Congo and Portugal and up flash the news that Steve Clarke has resigned as head coach following Scotland's exit from this World Cup. A statement from the Scottish FA released not long after Croatia's win over Ghana.

31:44That sealed Scotland's fate at this tournament. And the statement said, emotional part of this goodbye is for my players, without whom we wouldn't have had any of the memories that we've accumulated from 2019 until now, Clark has said in a letter to supporters, sorry, they deserve all the praise and adulation that they receive. And it was a truly an honour to be called their gaffer. Thanks for having me and good luck to my successor. So I am obviously joined by Gregor Robertson, who has also thrown the headphones back on and got his microphone back out to react to this news. Gregor, Steve Clark has been a subject of this World Cup podcast throughout the campaign because of Scotland's struggles.

32:21But as you said to me the last time, where the hell did they go from here? But what's your reaction to this? Quite a shock?

32:27Gregor Robertson: Yeah, it's a surprise. I mean, considering he signed a new contract just before the World Cup, he'd been seven years in charge. It seemed like, I was reading Michael Grant's excellent analysis of Scotland's failings and where we go next earlier today. And it certainly seemed as though Clark was up for a kind of seeing in a new sort of cycle in terms of the playing squad. because as I said the other day after the disappointment against Brazil this is kind of the end of an era or end of a cycle because a lot of players are into their 30s or players who've been part of this team and this journey for a long time are at the end of that journey now and I think a line has been drawn just now and it seems that Steve Clark now has probably had a change of heart and doesn't want to be the guy to to see in that new sort of era because and as I said before there's a bit of uncertainty I'm not entirely sure there's not a lot of the players who are our kind of high caliber players were kind of emerged as teenagers and we don't really look and see many teenagers emerging who've got that potential in Scottish football at the moment which is a concern so So, you know, Michael's piece started with, here we go again then.

33:53Gregor Robertson: And it was like, okay, we're going to have this analysis of where we're going wrong and developing players and actually coaches now. We've been famed for being a country that produces some of the best managers and coaches in the world through history. And that's no longer really the case either. So, you know, there'll be a lot of deep introspection, I think, in the coming days. and probably Clark's exit will even add to that. But if you're looking for an answer about who's next, I don't know, Tom. It's tough. There's not. Scottish managers are doing well just now. Derek McInnes would have been one of them.

34:34Gregor Robertson: He's just joined Rangers and he was at a peak with Hearts last season. Beyond that, it's tough. Yeah, well, we won't get into too much of that. We'll maybe come back to it on Monday, sure. but just give me a sense of, you know, you were just talking just recently on this same very show that we just stopped recording with me and Alison about England fans and their perspective. I mean, you're a former player and a journalist, but you are also a fan of this Scotland team, first and foremost. You know, you talk about on this show watching with your pals and things. Will there be upset at Steve Clarke going?

35:05Will there be a lot of people actually quite pleased? Yeah, I think, I mean, I think anyone who's sensible

35:14Gregor Robertson: should be able to see, to step back for a moment and look at the bigger picture and, you know, have some perspective and the fact that we've just competed in our first World Cup for 28 years. He's the guy who led us there after back-to-back Euro campaigns and it'd been more than 20 years since we'd been at them as well. So, like, he has achieved a lot. You know, I said that in the last show and I had a bit of pushback from one or two listeners who said, achieved what? Like, no, when you think about the barren spell that came before Steve Clarke, he has achieved a lot what's been an enormous disappointment is how we've performed when we've reached the major tournaments and there's even kind of nuance to that conversation too I think because we did play the 5th and 6th ranked teams in the world we hated Turnhoud to be not to give everyone a decent game and it's more about I think the sort of unease or the reason there won't be that much love lost among the Scottish public is just the way we approached a lot of those games and this has kind of been the conversation we had over the last few weeks as well just we can understand when you approach a game conservatively but you just want to have a bit more gumption and gallus going forward and we never ever at any stage really of any of the three tournaments we've reached under Steve Clarke showed enough of that and I think that's the next step but as I said before you can only work with the tools at its disposal and there were some glaring holes and gaps or drop-offs in sort of level from our top level players to like a centre half or a centre forward and when you get to a World Cup that's illuminated pretty brutally so I still would want to say thank you to Steve Clark because he you know most of my adult life I've not seen Scotland at a major tournament and there was a lot of excitement going into all these major tournaments even if ultimately the end result was always the same major disappointment yeah well listeners if you've got questions maybe for gregor on monday show do get in touch with me tom.clark at the times.co.uk gregor thank you very much for joining me again for an extra bolt-on part of this game podcast after that breaking news that steve clark is quitting as scotland manager unless there's any more breaking news when i go back to my desk in two minutes that will be it for today's show.

37:39Just to reiterate again, we will be back on Monday at a slightly later time because we'll be back in the studio as well and on YouTube. So we'll see you then.

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