WORLD CUP DAY 20: Mbappe and Olise shine, can Kane and Bellingham follow?

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1:30to discuss last night's matches. But now I'm joined by our chief football correspondent and the football journalist of the year, Johnny Northcroft, to preview England's round of 32 clash with DR Congo. Johnny, you've just landed in Atlanta. How are the spirits, both with you and the Times team and also in the England camp as well? Yeah, everyone's good, I think. Look, it feels like this is what we came for. This is the real World Cup for England. this is a time that you know we get to properly judge them there's these strange almost two years awaiting them between these times at tournaments the knockout stages and it's finally here I'm pretty excited about it now but more importantly Thomas Tuchel seems pretty excited he has been talking about this bringing out the best in him and in everyone else in the camp Hamza and I attended they started training today it was very hot actually in kansas city it's very hot in atlanta but there was a a noticeable sort of sense of fun i guess um from what you could see in the warm-up i mean in these formats you only get to see the warm-up and then they do the real stuff once you've left but you can always pick up a little bit about the vibe the misting tents were out because it was 32 degrees at 10.45am.

2:50It was just, yeah, there's a mood of, I think, of positivity, but, you know, not getting carried away from England. And I think they are pleased that now the knockouts are here. Yeah, as you say, Matt Lawton is there with you. He's been at the Thomas Tuchel press conference, which is just happening as we speak. He just dropped me a line before we started recording. say that you'd ask Thomas Tuchel the question which is very clever from Matt about the idea that England are on at 5pm so it means that rather than being in the pubs at 10pm and 9pm and things actually a load of kids will be going to be able to watch England and Thomas Tuchel's response to Matt Lawton's question was we'd love the idea to entertain them maybe we need to define the entertainment but hopefully they feel the spirit hopefully they feel how much it means to this team I see it every day I feel it every day and hopefully we can transmit it through the TVs and make them proud and happy So as you say, that is a head coach that he gets it, doesn't he?

3:49He knows what's on the line here and he knows that England have a chance if they put in a good performance and win this game that really set them up for the rest of the knockouts. Yeah, I mean, two things. I mean, Thomas Turco, as we said before, he himself is a bit of a fan. You know, he's a fan of English teams, English football. He's a total anglophile. So when he talks about the excitement that an England team can generate, I think he's coming from quite a genuine place because he's coming from an outsider that himself has kind of grown up loving England, loving English football. He's talked about Italia 90 being a teenager back in the garden in Kürnbach.

4:32If I've probably said that in a way that the Schwabians would laugh at. But anyway, his town in northern Bavaria putting his collar up and pretending to be Chris Wardle. You know, not Lothar Matthias, but Chris Wardle in the back garden. And yeah, he does get it. He's got a great knockout record. He's one of the best coaches in the world in terms of that club football knockout record. That was high on the FA's criteria when they did their sort of data piece to sort of define who the next England coach could be. and they looked at the super elite candidates and he scored pretty high, I think the highest in terms of knockout football.

5:18But of course, Gareth Southgate had an incredible knockout record. All of this points to the fact that, look, we can give them the big build-up. They have to win tomorrow. They really have to win. And, you know, yeah. Apologies for saying tomorrow. We've got the time difference, of course. I think a lot of listeners will be listening to it today as in the match day. But yeah, of course England have got to win. And if they don't, all this positive stuff I'm coming out with is just total fluff. Well, I'm sure we've talked about it and Hamza's written about the test that DR Congo will pose. In terms of the England team that we might see, it's been a tournament of many changes.

5:58Thomas Tuchel did flag that, but maybe not necessarily for the reasons that we've actually seen happen. Where are we, where's the lay of the land on the team at the minute, Johnny? as I say there's a press conference happening there's more information that might come out overnight so I'm putting you in a difficult spot here but what can listeners maybe expect from this team? Well we can expect yet another right back I mean at training Rhys James and Jarrell Kwanza were both absent they were meant to have him already gone home so there's going to be another starting right back in this game I think our understanding is that Esri Kwanza might get the nod he is someone that Tuchel loves for his reliability and his defensive capabilities he hasn't played right back I think at all for England but he has obviously done it for Villa a couple of times and I think the thinking is that in the way that he's kind of set the team up that right back slot, that right back's got to be someone who can come in and be a third centre back to allow Nico O 'Reilly to push up and invert and get into midfield and get into attacking positions so that would leave Konza well suited to the job the other option is Jed Spence who has just got a different profile and I think for that reason Konza is probably ahead it would mean John Stones coming back into the team now Stones didn't look match ready really frankly against Croatia but he's had the extra 10 days training since then.

7:35And he's got all that tournament experience. And then beyond him, Declan Rice should make his return. The intrigue for me is what he does in the wide positions. Does he stick with Marcus Drashford? And does he give Bakayo Saka another game? I mean, it's not you don't stick with Bakayo Saka. He's so good. It's more like, do you think that physically he's up to playing another game? Or do you want to nurse him a little bit? So we're slight kind of doubts about what he's going to do there. But if, you know, my expectation is that he'll keep the starting pair from the last game, which would be Saka and Rashford.

8:11Yeah, and if Konza does come in at right back, Johnny, as our head of sport, James Restle has been talking about with me and you, it would incredibly excitingly mean that England would line up 1-11 with shirt numbers on the pitch. One for the nerds out there, and James will not mind me saying that he is an absolute football nerd, as I am as well. Really, really makes me happy, that kind of thing. it will be the first time listeners since England beat Romania 1-0 in 1970 that they have lined up with show numbers 1-11 in a World Cup and just as another stat the last time they lined up 1-11 at a Euros was the 2004 quarterfinal against Portugal the team that day David James Gary Neville John Terry Sol Campbell Ashley Cole David Beckham Frank Lampard Steven Gerrard Paul Scholes Michael Owen and Wayne Rooney not a bad side and look what happened to them I was not a bad team yeah yeah i was at that game um that was a remarkable match um possibly and i don't want to be too unkind but possibly the the greatest drop-off ever when a substitution was made when wayne rooney went off and derias vassell came on um you know derias was all right but but it wasn't wayne rooney in that tournament um epic penalty shootout i remember like the was it ricardo was Was that the Portuguese goalkeeper that scored in the shootout, Ricardo?

9:30Did he take these gloves off? Was that the one? Yeah. And he'd saved a penalty and then he slaughtered one in. And there was a colleague of ours, I want to name a different juice, but I want to name who it was. But I remember coming down to the, it was mayhem actually with all the Portuguese press, coming down to the press conference and he was kind of standing shell-shocked, as you sometimes are after a really traumatic runner in the doorway of the press conference. and he was going, there was just too much happening. I was like, I know. And then Ricciardo takes a penalty and he just went white and he dismissed it.

10:04He sort of like bolped the way back up to file some extra copy because in his sort of, yeah, confusion, he hadn't clocked that the keeper had taken a pen. Goodness me. Well, I can guarantee listeners that none of the Times team will be missing anything tomorrow. You've got Johnny, Martin Samuel, Matt Lawton and Hamza Khalid Lunat there as well. Johnny it's nice that you mentioned penalties because it leads us on to a piece of yours talking to Thomas Tuchel about his relationship with penalties as a manager it's an interesting one isn't it tell us more and what he said about England's preparation for the potential penalty shootout he was he was in kind of quite soulful reflective mood this week talking about how you know the scars that you pick up as a sports person make here and he's watched the Nadal documentary on the plane over and what struck him was, you know, he said, he's a tennis fan.

11:02He said, oh, you know, my mind, Nadal just won every single game. And then you look at it, you realise how much adversity, even he went through all the losses and disappointments and so on. And then he talked about penalties and said that his whole kind of approach to wanting to get preparation absolutely spot on when it comes to shootouts was sort of formed by the first penalty shootout he had as a as a manager which was a german cup final in 2016 he was dortmund coach went up against guardiola's by munich and he described as this epic sort of you know coaching contest where you know i twisted and then pep twisted and then i changed my shape and then he changed my shape and you know it's a real tussle and it was 0-0 after 120 minutes and standing on the pitch he suddenly realised I've forgotten to do penalties I haven't prepared for this and he looked over and he could see that of course uber efficient Bayern already had their 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 worked out and Tuchel said I was reduced to just kind of asking players do you want one and of course Dortmund lost and he just couldn't forgive himself and from that point on he's always wanted to make sure penalties at the highest level so he started doing his own work on on a methodology for how his teams would address shootouts then came the FA and the FA of you know part of the the plan really implemented by Gareth Southgate and Dan Ashworth all those years ago to turning them around involved looking at penalties you know it was very much what have we done badly in the past what can what can we do better now so Tuchel talked about his delight arriving and finding there was already this penalties system and handbook in place and the two marrying up.

12:50So England will be prepared. Doesn't mean they'll win it. But I don't think he'll be walking around saying to Elliot Anderson, do you want one? I think they'll know what they're doing before they attempt it. I'm sure a lot of England fans and listeners will hope it doesn't go that far, particularly with some of the mad penalty shootouts that we've seen at this tournament so far. It's funny, Tom, I was watching the penalty shootouts yesterday and the Germany one and the Netherlands one and it just struck me that I've never seen my country in a penalty shooter and maybe never will. You never know, Johnny.

13:27There's 64 team World Cups coming in all sorts. We might have round of 48 and things to come. You never know. Scotland against Gibraltar in a World Cup nil-nil that goes all the way to penalties. it could happen it could happen you never know listen as long as you're not reporting on one tomorrow I think it's a little bit too soon to be having an England penalty shootout in a World Cup but listen as we keep saying DR Congo will be very tough opposition just one final question before I let you go Johnny in terms of it not getting to penalties and things England will be turning once again to their 9 and 10 won't they Jude Bellingham and Harry Kane as much as there is lots of conversation around the rest of the England team Saka and Rashford as you've already highlighted defence looks a bit suspect is Declan Rice fit one thing is for damn sure Harry Kane and Jude Bellingham are alright they're in some moment aren't they and most importantly they're playing as a partnership I think it's England's biggest reason for hope I wrote a piece about it and I think one of the points I made was that we've seen World Cups won by teams who've got one superstar playing well so to get two playing well at the same time and playing together is pretty good for England.

14:42That's pretty good weaponry. I mean, maybe France have got about eight playing well at the moment, but let's leave that aside. So it's interesting, the Bellingham and Kane journey, really, because at the Euros, I and others were kind of puzzling over whether they could actually play together. You know, that hadn't been the case when Bellingham came into the team, but he played in a deeper position. But the Bellingham of Real Madrid, the number 10, the further forward Bellingham and Kane didn't gel initially. And I think at the Euros, you know, I'll never forget them actually physically bumping into each other at one point in the Slovakia game.

15:18You can see Toplas bumping into each other because they're both trying to occupy the same space. But there's been a growth, of course. It helps that they're both extremely fit. They're probably in the best physical state. I think there's been a maturing process on Jude's part. I think Harry is also a world star now. He's grown in stature even since the Euros. And I think he wears that very well now. And I think Jude is someone who responds to being a teammate of iconic players because I think that's his ambition for himself. So he had a great bromance with Haaland at Dortmund and a great relationship with the likes of Modric and Kroos at Real Madrid.

16:04I think him and Harry, it's that sort of game recognises game thing, that the two of them know that they're on the same level and are enjoying the fact that they're getting to do that. Jude's being very humble and keeps calling Harry the goat and England's greatest ever. And long may it continue, but the FIFA have already picked up on it and in their technical report mentioned how they've got this partnership where they're not passing to each other a lot, But what they're doing is moving in real synchronicity. So Jude going ahead of the back line and Harry dropping off in quite a difficult rotation for teams to deal with.

16:46And of course, we had the first assist between them for three years in the Panama game, and it was a very, very good assist. So it's fun to watch, and it's a real source of optimism. for England. If they could get Declan Rice super fit and firing as well, now you're cooking those three together. But two's not bad at the moment. Yeah, we'll be hoping Jude Bellingham and Harry Kane can deliver the goods for England in that match against DR Congo. Johnny Northcroft, thank you very much for joining me. Johnny, of course, will be bringing you his match report on the Times website not long after full time.

17:27As I mentioned, Matt Lawton, Hansa Kalik Luna and Martin Samuel there with him too. We're just going to take a quick break. We will be back with Gregor Robertson and James Geerbrand to talk about France and Norway just after this.

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19:29Welcome back to the Game Football Podcast from the Times and Sunday Times. These are our daily World Cup shows. I'm Tom Clark and I'm delighted to say that I'm joined by Gregor Robertson for part two of this show to discuss another big night of action. And Gregor, what else can you possibly say about this French team? We're just saying before we came, before I hit record, I was just saying to you, and I think I'd like to put this on record, this job really is a privilege sometimes. Because whilst I am sat in my living room, and it is after midnight, the idea that I get paid to watch that and now chat to you about it is an absolute privilege, because what a team what a joy to watch this French team are, winners against Sweden I mean Sweden, they weren't even that bad France were just incredible weren't they Kylian Mbappe and Michael Alisse honestly, name a more iconic World Cup duo, I can't think of any off the top of my head

20:19Gregor Robertson: I mean I think there's an argument to say they're the best two players on the planet right now Lumi and Jamal would be another one in that conversation but he's been struggling with injury and he's not made that impact on the World Cup so far but like Alisi in particular his rise is it's astonishing it is astonishing I think actually like Bayern could well be braced to receive some offers this summer for him because he's elevated he's played to a whole new level and it feels like the relationship between him and Mbappe is the key thing for France. I mean, we speak about a front four and it's true because Barcala's pace, Dembele, we got a hat-trick the other day, they're all outstanding footballers, but the relationship they have, Mbappe and Alissi, the number of passes they exchange, the way Mbappe drops in and links play with Alissi.

21:12Gregor Robertson: And I think, I was reading, once he described him as clairvoyant, he clearly really, really loves playing with this guy and it shows. and I mean yeah they were just an absolute joy to watch and like terrifying if you're a defender for any nation watching this you're terrified because of the speed they do everything at the speed that they take you on, the speed that their feet move the speed that they they interchange and they can beat you in behind or like the way that Mbappe completely bamboozled Giocares with that step over step over, drop of the shoulder and chop on the outside all in one movement dizzy, incredible so yeah it's hard to remember a team or a nation that is this heavy favourites as well but France are way out in front Yeah, six goals at this tournament for Kylian Mbappe now drawing level with Lionel Messi at the top of undoubtedly the greatest golden boot race in the history of World Cups you've got to say we're going to talk about Erling Haaland in a little bit.

22:21Michael Alisse though, five assists at this World Cup. Only Pelé with six in 1970 has done better in a single edition of the competition. Just a remarkable, I mean it's the way he kind of slaloms and just meanders around the pitch as well which is a little bit Messi-esque I've got to say in terms of just his positioning on the pitch. But when they click into gear and go, and as you say the first goal was fantastic. I really enjoyed the fact that it came from a corner as well because technically that's a different version of set-piece FC, isn't it? It was a great move. You've got Alise, I think.

22:52Alise to Dembele to Mbappe. That's the most elite corner goal ever scored, isn't it? Absolutely, yeah.

22:57Gregor Robertson: And it was very simple, but it was hugely effective. And yeah, as I say, the speed that he went out inside Giocares just gave him no chance whatsoever. It was a remarkable passage of play. but on Alisi again the thing for me is the way he takes the ball in his stride it's a thing of beauty you could get what looks like a very simple pass maybe from Rabiot or someone from midfield into those little pockets of space that he picks up and he just takes it in his stride and immediately he's bearing down on the opposition's defence and then he's capable of doing something like nutmegging the Sweden defender to set up to set up Barcola or chopping outside and slipping it inside the defender to set up Mbappe.

23:48Gregor Robertson: It's just, he's so decisive. I love watching him. I love watching him. I've loved his journey. You know, anyone who's a long-term listener to this podcast, like, you know, we spoke about him when he was playing for Reading as an 18-year-old. Didn't see this coming, but I love his journey and I love his sort of, his aloofness as well. I think the French are really starting to kind of love that too. there was this whole kind of question mark about how how good his french is and mbappe kind of laughed like he said you'll never know because he doesn't want to speak to you guys so uh i think they're really all taken to him and no wonder because he's making them tick um yeah beautiful absolutely lovely i sensed as well with that nutmeg one he was waiting for the chance to nutmeg him it was like he was doing it like five aside you know like the really good guy at five-a-side who's an absolute torture to play against and just very i mean all around them as well exactly i was going to come back to say that i i you know the other thing i was saying to you at the start is i honestly look at them and i've watched all their games i still think they're playing in like i'll give them second gear and sometimes they click it up a gear but overall they still look like they're strolling at times and in that first half i honestly looked like they'd said right we're going to try and score a long-range worldie of some kind before we eventually try and score in the box.

25:08We've got this in the bag. Because Mbappe kept taking pot shots. I think Rabiot had a good one. Alise had a few. And then, I mean, as you say, that overhead kick. Just ridiculous. It was astonishing. Honestly.

25:19Gregor Robertson: Astonishing. And also... Absolutely mad. Also, a run from Barcola as well, early in the half, where he kind of, he cut inside the right back and just took off. I think possibly Barcola's the fastest. It would be a great race. I'd love to see that front forward just race each other, you know? that would be you know I'd pay handsomely to watch that but Barclay just took off and he was going and then he I think it was

25:46Gregor Robertson: the centre half of Sweden and he basically stood him up and just did a drop of the shoulder and completely sent him for a hot dog like just inside the box and that gate opened up the channel of space to take it on his left foot and he hit it over the bar it was you know a disappointing end to the move but that surge of speed as well is just terrifying and you know you come to the you know the whole conversation about how they can be stopped now really and it's hard to see and you don't say that very often about a team you think it would be them kind of getting a bit arrogant or cocky or feeling that it was going to be easy, you don't sense that about them they look like they're really determined as well and it could be Deschamps kind of masterpiece because the teams that he's had before have not been a masterpiece as they've been fairly turgid fairly just effective with a sprinkling of stardust that's often been Mbappe this team if they go all the way will be his masterpiece Yeah absolutely I definitely watched the last dance version of documentary of this France at this tournament as well especially if we get to see a bit behind the scenes with Michael Alisek you mentioned Deschamps there I thought it was quite telling that Mbappe scores that first goal and runs over to the coach obviously Deschamps lost his mum this week and last week sorry and had been home back to France you know you've got your captain your superstar your talisman the great you know the best player in the world probably at the moment scores a goal and goes celebrates with his team and then goes no no I'm going to run to the coach to give him a hug and then equally as he's brought off Deschamps is kind of bowing down to him I mean and on the commentary Ali McCoy was laughing and going Christ I never had a manager do that to me but you get the sense that it's not for ego it's for actually like a bond between them and like that is quite remarkable from Deschamps to have done this for so long with this team and I do it did make me wonder I was just speaking to Martin Samuel who's at this game and is writing a match report for us now that you can read on the Times website I was talking to him about the idea that actually Deschamps gets the absolute best out of these players and of course Mbappe and Alise and Barcola and P Dembele play brilliantly for their clubs but I think the best I see Mbappe is in a French shirt and then you think about players like Rabiot in midfield every time he plays for France he looks like one of the best sitting midfielders in the game and then he's played for his clubs before and he's been linked with all sorts of moves and it's never really happened.

28:16Deschamps has done and yes he's got an amazing players but it still takes brilliant management to manage them all equally and collectively, doesn't it?

28:26Gregor Robertson: Absolutely. And I think that moment, you're right, that was telling. And that's been the one fear or kind of unknown about this squad is that French squads historically too have been slightly combustible and there are a lot of egos. Even the fact that Mbappe left PSG and Dembele won the Ballon d 'Or, won back-to-back Champions Leagues. there's sort of like perhaps a bit of a potentially a threat to the hierarchy there or you know upset the balance a bit but every kind of word that's come out of Mbappe's mouth has been about the team and the collective and on Deschamps you know he clearly has done an outstanding job he's been manager since 2012 I think and like won the World Cup became finalists as well he has done an outstanding job but there's always been a kind of sense that he's not he's not making he's not made all the kind of riches at his disposal as kind of beautiful as they could be there's always been a sense that the football has not been what it could be with this extraordinary I say this extraordinary generation with a series of extraordinary generations really of French players so for that to have changed so dramatically is pretty remarkable in itself because Deschamps has always been renowned for being a pretty conservative coach and having a team that's devastating on the counter-attack and that's not what this team is, this team is dominating every single game so far they still pose that threat on the counter-attack and clearly there's going to be bigger challenges ahead but I think he's recognised that I've got an extraordinarily talented group of attacking players.

30:23Gregor Robertson: What we need is a solid foundation and just let them shine. Yeah they've scored at least three goals in each of their last five World Cup matches. That is the longest streak in the history of the competition for scoring that many goals in a game. I mean you said how can they stop, can anyone stop them? Is there one team that you look at and think that'd be an interesting clash? We mapped out, obviously, on the Monday show routes to the final. Could be a Spain semi-final. We obviously all predicted it could be a rerun of four years ago with Argentina in the final. Do you think either of those teams, I was pondering it before myself and thinking Spain would be interesting, not conceded a goal yet.

31:00Obviously, they've got to get to that semi-final stage yet. Got a lot of players who can keep the ball and keep the ball and stop it from going to Alise and Mbappe. that might be an interesting clash. What do you think? I mean, it'd be more than that,

31:12Gregor Robertson: it'd be fascinating, yeah, because you're right, Spain would want to dominate the game as well and they have been solid defensively so far. And Argentina, you feel like when you get into those late stages too, it would just be set up for the superstars to decide it and that's Lionel Messi and that's Guglielmo Mbappe and now it's Michael Alissi as well. So it would be decided on moments and at the moment it's hard to see any team having more of those opportunities than France. But Argentina have been there and done it and they've got a really experienced squad and as we've been discussing so far already it feels very similar to the last World Cup in that everything is set up to assist Lionel Messi basically and they have a really solid experience foundation as well and they can keep the ball and they you know they're all very experienced so um those two games those two teams they're they'll be mouthwatering clashes but at the moment it like feels like if france didn't do this they'd almost have kind of have let themselves down a little bit yeah well they've got to get past Paraguay first on Saturday at 10pm.

32:35That'll be a fascinating clash of attack versus defence and listen, France's defence is pretty tasty as well. I have a sneaking suspicion that we might be waxing lyrical about France again on this podcast so we'll have to leave it there Gregor. Let's move on to the other big game of the night and listen, I thought there might be a case to start part two with this game. Fascinating as it was, Norway just edging out Ivory Coast 2-1. Really brilliant game this and I've got to say, I say that after what I thought was some slightly stodgy games yesterday, particularly Morocco against Netherlands, which you took the wise decision to skip and go to bed.

33:11I stayed up and watched it, and I'm sure listeners could probably tell by the end of yesterday's podcast with the change in my voice. This game, though, was great. This game, though, was great. Just before I bring in James Geerbrandt, who was there and sent some thoughts, what were your initial musings on the game? All about Erling Haaland or other things that caught your eye?

33:29Gregor Robertson: Erling Haaland as he often does kind of stole the show and even actually just the fact that you know he seemed quite emotional at the end and that's not something you see all that often and you know although he still had a sort of eyebrow raised or whatever he was kind of you could tell that this means a lot for him and I think you could tell that from Odegaard too Odegaard was snarling and flying into tackles and stuff towards the end so there's a kind of force behind this Norway team and Knuse's goal was brilliant it needed that moment of quality, individual quality to bring the game to life and I think Ivory Coast were really good after that, they threw everything at them and possibly a little unfortunate but I think Norway's domination of set plays as well is going to be a big thing for them, I think they faced 14 corners in this game so it's not just in terms of attacking prowess it's how they are in both boxes and Haaland was a big part of that because he's the defensive side of his game was really important too so yeah it was a great game great scenes at the end and I can another reminder that Erling Haaland even if it looks like he's anonymous for much of the game can be so decisive well interesting you mentioned that theme about being anonymous but decisive because that's exactly what James Gearbrandt was talking about both in his match report and in this note that he sent me after the match.

35:03Ivory Coast I thought played really well and can probably count themselves a little bit unlucky they I think have brought one of the best winger groups to this tournament and there's been a lot of focus on Jan Diamand and it wasn't his day didn't play as well but Nicola Pepe and in particular Ahmad Diallo really took over and I thought Ahmad was brilliant when he came on and his goal was absolutely a thing of beauty it was quite an even game to be honest and you know Ivory Coast probably a little unlucky that it didn't go to extra time Norway after the sort of you know momentum checker of that final group match against France Yeah, I think they played well.

35:51I do think it's hard, no matter how much talent you have in the team, when you come to your first major tournament in years. I've said before, I think Norway are kind of where Belgium were at in 2014. And I kind of stand by that comparison. And I think, you know, simply to have reached this stage, no matter that, yes, on paper, they probably should have got out of the group in second place. and on paper they probably should have been favorites for this match. I still think it's a big achievement for them to have done so, having not played in a major tournament for 30 years. And Haaland, what more can you say about him?

36:29I'm just fascinated by how low-key he is. This was such a kind of uninvolved performance, where he completed eight passes. We were sort of looking at the first hydration break to see if he'd you know he had one touch and he'd had which was with his head so he hadn't touched the ball with his feet in the first quarter of the match and even the goal itself you know it was just was simply a case of letting the ball hit the foot more than than than shooting it he and i think that ability to be so laconic so kind of minimalist is in some ways almost his superpower You know, we've very rarely have ever seen any player play at this level of kind of stardom in the way that Haaland does to interpret the striker's role in such a minimalist way.

37:24And yet you look at his record, 60 goals in 53 internationals and no one has got there faster. Yeah, James there, Gregor, kind of really nicely highlighting the subtle, easy, simple genius of Erling Haaland. And I must say, though, we've already chatted about this over message during the game. Was that just a heavy touch that he scored with? I mean, I love the bloke and I think he's being brilliant. But it didn't look like a shot. No. Because the way he reacted afterwards and, you know, James talked about it. What do you think? I can't quite decide.

37:56Gregor Robertson: I can't either. I don't know whether he was trying to control it or whether he was in two minds as he was striking the ball. But there was something pretty unnatural about it. and I think his heart would have been in his mouth as it kind of rolled over the line very slowly with the goalkeeper scrambling to try and get behind it but thankfully for Halland in Norway it found the back of the net and he sort of wry smile summed up that goal probably better than anything it was a great pass by Oscar Bob actually for Patrick Berg really smart, he kind of cut in from the right on his left foot and zipped it in for Berg and Berg was outstanding Berg was really interesting Midfielder plays for Bodo Glimt he's played there almost his whole career apart from a year at Lenz in France I actually was reading according to his Wikipedia page anyway his father, his grandfather two of his uncles and his great uncle all played for Bodo Glimt and three of them also played for Norway so like he's kind of after he had the Europe lens he's just, I'm just going back home now and obviously both who glimpsed Rijs and everything has been astonishing, I think he's their captain he was brilliant and he was also the only player of the 10 changes who kept his place so obviously Stolbacke made 10 changes for their final group game against France made another 10 changes for this game but he was the sole player who kept his place and the France game was his first start so I think he's kind of nailed down a spot and he's really got loads of energy in midfield so I thought he was outstanding and yeah, just the kind of awareness to cut it back I think some players might have shot once Oscar Bobba played him in just the awareness to cut it back for Haaland was great so yeah, but Haaland ultimately steals the show and crikey, he had 27 touches 7 of them were in his own penalty box but will he care?

40:03Gregor Robertson: Not one bit. How many times have you spoken about that in Manchester City games this season as well? Exactly. We've just got to forget all this striker's touches in the box and all this kind of thing. As long as he scores, it doesn't matter. And Erling Haaland does score 13. He's got 13 goals in each of his last 13 competitive internationals for Norway. 25 goals in that run. I mean, what? Like that's absolutely mad. And it is a joyous thing, isn't it? it's been talked about so much we talked about it on this podcast Tony Cascarino has done a brilliant piece on it from the Times website it is as much as I don't want to admit this for Gianni and Fantino and FIFA it is absolutely class to be at this halfway stage in the tournament have the top scorers list read Mbappe, Messi, Haaland and then actually loads of other class players beneath them but those three sitting top of the charts is just great isn't it?

40:54Gregor Robertson: It certainly is yeah like they're you know I read James Geobrand's piece as well in the paper which I would advise anyone to seek out and he kind of made the point that this is this kind of bombastic tournament, the biggest that there's ever been and so many people come to football for the first time and say oh Erling Haaland he's a superstar, let's watch this and see him do almost nothing it must be quite bizarre for a lot of people who are coming to football or just checking out a game in the World Cup and looking for one of the superstars but that's what kind of marks him out as so different from Mbappé because you watch Mbappé play for France you're like oh my god he is a superstar everything he does the speed of his feet, his technique there's everything about him wow and Messi comes alive more often in a game and is so decisive.

41:51Gregor Robertson: Haaland is like just this huge huge kind of force of nature who clearly decides games but for so long in those games he's doing absolutely nothing it's a really really really kind of unique state of affairs so yeah James has kind of articulated that very well and I advise anyone to seek out his match report Yeah definitely give it a read on the Times website Do that again because I just started choking Yeah definitely check that out on the Times website now but Gregor it does mean Sunday night we've got what we wanted on Monday's prediction show Gabriel against Haaland Brazil v Norway honestly there's so many things I'm excited about about this tournament things that have happened things that are to come this is right up there because the other thing is Gabriel and that Brazil defence haven't really been tested yet and the idea that Gabriel has now got a couple of days thinking right I'm going to show him because that is what he'll be thinking isn't it no doubt no doubt there have been some titanic battles between them of course with Arsenal and Man City so you know it's one of those where you feel like he's going to try and take it upon himself to shackle them as well like they're two big personalities that will want to get the better of the other and that promises to be absolutely box office Yeah can't wait just a quick word for Ivory Coast one of my favourite teams of the tournament so far I am sad to see them go I think it would have been great to see them go a little bit further because as we mentioned on Monday's show I think Norway v Ivory Coast didn't deserve to be around a 32 game I think quarter finals or round of 16 at the very least um impressive all over the pitch I thought but as James mentioned in his note there a great group of wingers Yandy Amande but Ahmad Diallo's goal what a goal wow what a brilliant goal his second brilliant goal of this tournament I mean Michael Carrick and Manchester United have got to work out a way to get him in the team more haven't they I mean for so long he was the kind a bright spark in a really stuttering team.

43:51Now they've got it together and in the Champions League, I'm really excited to hopefully see him get some game time next season.

43:57Gregor Robertson: Yeah, I mean, the way, the kind of close control was the thing that was so remarkable. The way he kind of, the ball was like stuck to his foot. Yeah, the way he kind of weaved in and out and then I think he exchanged a one-two with Pepe. And when a lot of people were like, shoot, shoot, or a lot of people would have shot, he still had the composure to kind of cut back for a more advantageous shot on his left foot. Great composure that was. And then fired it into the ground to score. And he was clearly running away making a point. The fact that he didn't start was pretty remarkable actually because he's, you know, James is right.

44:33Gregor Robertson: They have a great kind of cast of wide forwards. Diamande is clearly someone who's very much in demand and he's rapid. But he didn't really impact or influence the game as much as he has in previous ones and Ahmad when he's in that kind of form is a star so it was a surprise he didn't start and he was clearly a bit upset about that but he very very very very nearly you know he got the team back in and he almost got them in again with the free kick, that was a great free kick towards the end that had to be palmed away so yeah, a big season ahead for him with Manchester United and Ivory Coast were good.

45:18Gregor Robertson: They were a great addition to the tournament and I think before this game they were only behind for three minutes in their group stages I heard. So they've actually been a bit unfortunate I think. Yeah, a brilliant performance from Norway to get past a very good Ivory Coast team. All that's left is to wrap up the final game of the night but listen, it's not happened yet. So Gregor Robertson is off to bed I'm off to watch Mexico v Ecuador. Let's see what jazzy, hazy-like jingle producer Neil can find to mark the transition from my voice now, just after midnight, to my voice at 4am.

46:05Well, thanks to a storm in Mexico, 4am becomes 5am, but co-hosts Mexico ensured their game didn't go to extra time and penalties. So listen, I'll take it. They beat Ecuador 2-0 to progress. A brilliant first-half display. This loads of high-intensity football and they really used a raucous home crowd to inspire them. They scored some fantastic goals too. Make sure you watch the highlights this morning. They reached a round of 16 where they will face England if, and it's a big if, if Thomas Tuchel's side can get past DR Congo. We will find out later today. I'm off to bed. I'll see you tomorrow.

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