WORLD CUP DAY 39: Argentina got what they deserved and "England players must think for themselves."

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0:40Hello and welcome to The Game, football podcast from The Times and Sunday Times. This is day 39, the last and final daily show of the 2026 World Cup. A World Cup won by Spain in an ugly final against Argentina. Now, I have often referred on this podcast to our newspaper's balanced and measured coverage. And so I must clarify that this intro is not representative of the paper's views. But instead, I offer this thought on behalf of myself, but also on behalf of Cape Verde, Egypt, Switzerland and England. Get in there! How's that, you horrible bunch of anti-football crybabies? He's lost it He's 39 He's lost it He's gone He never had it Now Where was I?

1:29On today's show We'll discuss That final Spain's brilliance Ponder whether Rodri might win Another Ballon d 'Or And work out Just how many Argentina players Deserve long suspensions We will also Offer final reflections On England Pick our team Of the tournament And dish out Some other awards too I'm Tom Clark And joining me today We have the football reporter who spent several weeks at this World Cup covering the tournament, it's Tom Allnut. The former footballer who went to two World Cups with Ireland, it's Tony Cascarino. And the former footballer who spent this World Cup being heartbroken by Scotland but falling in love with Kate Verde, it's Gregor Robertson.

2:05Team, we are here! We've done it! We've made it! What a joy! Oh, that intro felt good. I just had to get that out of the system. Oh, it was a tough old watch, wasn't it, that final? My goodness me. really not helping my cause for suggestions that this is the best World Cup ever. I think I'm going to have to reassess that, aren't I? Thoughts? Should we just start with thank God Spain won? I think that's got to be the takeaway, hasn't it? And Tom, I'm going to start with you as the man on this podcast who told us before the semi-finals that Spain would indeed win. Well done. Before the tournament, Tom, actually.

2:36Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're downgrading my predictions. Yeah, all the way back then. All the way back then. He did, he did. He got it right. And deserved winners.

2:44Tom Allnutt: Yeah, I thought so. You know, in this game, 100%, obviously. The stats show that, zero shots on target, Argentina. I mean, Spain were dominant, I thought, from the whole match. And in a way, the sending off, I think, felt like a pivotal moment, but actually, it didn't change that much. The pattern of the game was what it was, right? Like Spain with a better team. And there's been a sense, I think, with Spain all the way, I wouldn't say all the way through, but particularly the knockout stages, just kind of cruising. I mean, even in that France game, I think we said, didn't we, that winning that game 2-0, it was sort of like, it wasn't an epic.

3:14Tom Allnutt: It wasn't like an amazing performance, Spain just doing what Spain do. And in the final, I thought that as well. It was a real golfing class. Didn't make for a great final, but I think the right team won. Yeah, Tony? Well, it was a shocker of a final, but that was all based on Argentina. Yeah. I mean, I couldn't believe what I was witnessing. I'm going to be brutally honest with you. I literally gave up on the game in the second period of extra time. I thought, I'm going to sleep. I can't remember that. Is that because, like me, you were worried they were going to win on penalties? I started the game with thinking look obviously Spain have been the better team but I started the game thinking I'd love Lionel Messi to win two World Cups but not the rest of the team of Argentina and by the time I got to the end of the game I was really not liking the rest of Argentina's players and kept thinking I hope they don't win it I just did not want them to win it at that stage because the game got ugly Tom and I just was like by the end and I got up this morning I watched the end of it and saw the goal and all what happened And it's like, wow, that felt so much.

4:14And a lot of people reference this. It felt so much like 1990 World Cup final, which was a great World Cup, but the final was dreadful. But nothing to do with Spain. I mean, I've never seen a more one-sided game. It was remarkable, wasn't it? And the thing is, I obviously make jokes in that intro. And yes, there were plenty of times when I was frustrated by Argentina, not just as an England fan, but also, you know, Kate Verde, that game, Gregor, we watched it. I thought they were, you know, poor against Egypt. but at least in those games they came back and Messi was brilliant. There was none of that in this game.

4:44Nothing. None of it. You know, Tom, you mentioned before the final, Enzo Fernandes, he's a£100 million midfielder. Julian Alvarez is probably going to become a£125 million striker this. And they offered nothing. I mean, is that down to Scaloni?

5:00Tom Allnutt: Gregor was saying the same thing about France in the semi-final. He said he was angry and shouting at the TV because he wanted to see the real France. I think you have to almost say... So this is down to Spain? I think so. I mean, of course, I'm sure Argentinian fans will be saying what happened there. But you have to say, the way Spain play, they suffocate you. They don't allow you to play. They don't allow you to kind of get a grip on the game because they just have the ball all the time. And it's not always the most exciting to watch, let's be honest. The way Spain play, it's quite methodical.

5:26Tom Allnutt: It's quite calculated. But they don't allow you to express yourself. And I think that's what happened with Argentina. I'm glad you said that at the end because I'll be brutally honest, I've been left a bit cold by Spain. I admire enormously particularly the outer possession stuff the fact that they conceded one goal in eight games that's why they've won the World Cup I don't think they've moved the ball as quickly as past iterations of Spain teams, they're not even as exciting to watch as the Euros winning team because they had the dynamic wingers we spoke about that before, there was the perfect synthesis of Spain's tiki-taki football and a bit more direct and exciting football, they've not really had much of that because Luminiumalo's been working and he's way back to fitness.

6:06Nico Williams hasn't really been fit at all. So I admire it and I take on board all this stuff, particularly after England's recriminations about admiring the culture. And Tom's piece was brilliant about the midfielders and the way that they develop their players and the system. And in fact, they've got a coach who's come through the youth ranks. All of that, I admire it all. But I haven't really enjoyed watching them play this tournament. They're very similar to 94 Brazil, when Dunga played in front of the back four and they controlled the game. And even though they won it, they got huge criticism.

6:38And I'm not... Spain, I would say, were better than that Brazil team. But they got huge criticism, Brazil, when they won it in 94 for that dunga roll in a Brazilian set-up that was always based on attack-minded football. But it was a shocker from Argentina. It's just unimaginable. Just before we come on to Argentina, we're all going to talk about it. You can all have your therapy as well as me in that intro. So, Rodri, what an unbelievable performance in those last two games from him. And probably slightly symbolic of what you're talking about, Gregor, in that he controls and dictates the game so much that he's almost like, let someone else have a go, will you, for goodness sake.

7:13But, I mean, this is a guy that, to me, is now playing even better than he did in this tournament than when he won the Ballon d 'Or. Anyone have thoughts on that? There's just a bit more kind of tenacity and bite in his play. Maybe we just don't see that with Manchester City because he doesn't need to offer it. but kind of goes against the Premier League physicality. Tom?

7:31Tom Allnutt: What was interesting was, I don't know if you saw that video that Guardiola was talking about, it's in October or something last year, and he was kind of saying, we're not going to see the best Rodri this season. He needs to understand that. He's been injured for so long, it's going to take him time to come back. You'll see the best Rodri next summer for Spain at the World Cup. And you kind of think, he's almost kind of like, unlike all the other players, most other players in this tournament, he's kind of peaking at the right time. He looks like someone who's sharp and playing well. But he was in and out of the Man City team at times last year.

7:55Tom Allnutt: Exactly. And not in great form, I don't think, earlier on in the season. So, I mean, I think it's sort of symptomatic. I kind of think, you know, you guys are saying, I understand with the kind of the style point, but you've got to say it's kind of nice that there's a team here, which there isn't a Haaland, you know, there isn't a Messi. Le Mignemal has been a different Le Mignemal. Like, there isn't a kind of a star player. And he's still 19. He's still 19 wearing braces, you know? Yeah, yeah. And I mean, like, you look at the side and there are sort of underdogs almost like Koubasi, you know, like what a tournament he's had, you know, like Fabian Ruiz, you know?

8:24Tom Allnutt: I mean, Fedri, you know, probably the best playmaker in the world, not even getting in the team. Laporte, who every time I see him, I'm sad that he left the Premier League. I loved him. I think he's such an underrated centre defender in the modern game with his left foot and his passing, but still being physical as well. You know, Poro and Kukurea, you know, like, and you know, I see him on in goal when you're thinking, well, the best goalkeeper in the Premier League last season is on the bench, you know, like, I think there's something quite refreshing about the fact that in the kind of tournament of stars, you know, that you've got a team all about the team.

8:49Tom Allnutt: In a tournament of kind of super coaches, it's about the under-21s coach. Like, it's kind of a lesson to us, right? We wanted the big names and the big stories, but actually Spain are just kind of doing the boring thing. They're doing the kind of nuts and bolts that other teams need to do. Don't sign really expensive superstar managers. It works through the system. Find a way of playing, and that's what wins your tournament. I think it's another case of both things can be true, Gregor, because I think having watched all the games, I do feel like you, and I think we were both having a bit of a therapy session after Spain beat France a bit just gutted that Mbappe and Alise weren't in a World Cup final.

9:20But you actually think about that game against Argentina, and maybe we would have had a rerun of four years ago because it would have been a bit more end-to-end. Messi would have had a bit more space. I mean, the best player to have ever played the game barely got a kick, did he? Until like right at the end when he dropped basically back into centre-back to try and get the ball to try and start playing some passes. And again, it's all down to Spain. I mean, isn't it just because they won two years ago?

9:41Tom Allnutt: You kind of feel like we've seen this before. There's nothing new about it. In a way, dominance is boring, right? Like it's a bit like when Manchester City win the league again and again, playing the same way. It's like, well, yeah, give us a new story. But Spain are... Well, it's also a bit about taste and what some people like to watch and others. There are people who think Pep Guardiola's team is a bit boring to watch sometimes. I'm not one of them. I think when they're hitting their greatest peaks and heights, they're an absolute joy to watch. I just don't think this team hit their greatest peaks and heights.

10:08They didn't have to. They were really, really solid. They didn't really have great cutting edge or that many fantastic patterns in an attacking sense. They kept the ball really well in the middle third and there was the occasional moment of magic that won them the game or like dogging this. Because the goal that won it was like a certain possible ball to defend at the back post, got the knock back and someone finally puts the latest off and he put it through it. That's what won them. Their goal was against Colm. Defensively, they were superb. And I looked back at 98 and France had had a, you know, as much as they won the World Cup and beat Brazil in the final 3-0, they were great defensively.

10:44Then you can go to the 2002, 2006, Italy, a great World Cup of defending as well. Spain tipped all them boxes. And whatever we say, teams found it really hard to get a goal against them. What a shot of 10 shots on target throughout the tournament they conceded. Who scored the only goal? It's just a pub quiz question for the end of the year to get everyone prepared. Who scored the only goal against Spain at this World Cup? Belgium. Belgium. God. Charles de Catelare. OK. Who's the last team to beat them? God knows. It's a long, old time, isn't it? I know. Do you? Scotland. Oh! What have we done?

11:21We're all chanted. What have we done about 10 minutes into the final World Cup show and we've managed to get a gratuitous mention of Scotland in there? But a brilliant success for Spain and Luis de la Fuente. Tom, we'll come back to your piece about midfielders and their academy system, because it links slightly to what I wanted to talk about with England. Just a very quick word for Lamin, Jamal's younger brother. Keane, I mean, what a kid. What a kid. I guess the biggest cheer in the stadium when he comes on the screen. Living a better life than that lad right now, honestly. I was so, like, a bit tired.

11:50It was like 2 o 'clock in the morning. I was finishing prep for this. I was still in the office. And then all these pictures started dropping of him on the pitch just having the best time, having an absolute ball. Wonderful to see. Should we all get it off our chest then? Argentina. That wasn't very nice to watch, was it? Tony, I want to start with you. You played in an era where you got kicked quite a lot. Yeah. And he did. Was this as bad as that? Was this as bad as that? Worse? Every bit. Some of it was worse. Yeah. Some of the challenges last night... Now, I understand that the referees or the officials had to go a little bit lenient, or they felt they had to.

12:23Yeah. But some of the tackles were way beyond lenient. I just was shocked. I was stacked. McAllister could have been sent off after 10 minutes. Well, Tom... He did a blatant block and then a really bad foul. Only one of them got given as a free kick. And I was like... I started pulling my hair out. I was rocking in my chair going, they're going to win it. I can't believe they're going to win it. Well, there was so much... I mean, we always say the Premier League is one of the toughest leagues for, you know, making tackles, which it's clearly not. This was just so far away from that. I was shocked.

12:51I understand that he wanted to probably get the game more open and more sort of freedom for players and not blowing up all the time and giving fouls. But this is way beyond some of the challenges. Me and Greg were talking beforehand. It's like, wow. There were some serious red card challenges in there. Greg, I wouldn't have got away with some of them in the Football League. The one that tagged Leofico when he planted his studs on Luminumal, with no attempt to get the ball. Whilst pulling him with both arms as well. It was almost to hide it. He was trying to climb on him at the same time. My mouth just crumbled in a heap and threw him off.

13:23The way Argentina played is almost a result of the leniency of the officials. We saw it from early on. We saw that there was a directive, clearly, to let the game flow. And I'm all for that, ordinarily. We all are. There were so many moments where you think, that's too far. You've got to protect the players and also not allow teams to be as cynical as Argentina were. So I think the officiating left a lot to be desired. So hard, though, in a game, isn't it? Because it was the same with Paraguay and France, where you were like, you know, we've talked about it at the time, for the first 20 minutes, you're like, brilliant, Paraguay, they're getting in their faces, unsettling them.

13:58And then you're like, whoa, whoa, whoa, we're getting carried away here. And it's like the officials need to step in there and start throwing out a few yellow cards. Paraguay did that to Germany. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Exactly the same. But it was a bit more defensive and structured. it just changes slightly. I mean, it is a shame as well for this to be, who knows, maybe he'll keep playing and keep walking about in four years' time, age, whatever it will be, 43, Lionel Messi. But does Scaloni, the coach, take any responsibility or blame for this type of performance? Is it because... Well, I've got one that really bothered me.

14:28How he didn't get Laotona Martinez on the pitch as a centre-forward. You know, he's got the goal against England, the winning goal against England, and he's got three in the tournament, and they were so lacking in the forward areas. and yes, Messi was not involved particularly much, but has he not played a part? Yeah. I mean, offer something different to go after Spain in extra time. Just offer something different. I was surprised he didn't play more football. I guess with the sending off, maybe. But then the sending off is so late in the game. Like, why not? You've still got to get a goal, Tom.

14:53Yeah, yeah. You've still got to get a goal. So you can't just go, well, we'll just get... It was really frustrating. I actually thought that they're a better team with him in it. I know we all can go afterwards and say, who should have been in and shouldn't have. I thought Martinez gave them much, much more as a team. And it showed in the way they came back, you know, in the games they did. Anyone think there'd be any interesting responses to all the Argentina players who play in the Premier League in this modern world of, you know, be it banter or, you know, slightly unpleasant abuse when there's been this global spectacle?

15:27Alexis McAllister, Enzo Fernandes, Romero, all these players that we see week in, week out, might have to take a bit of flack for a couple of weeks, maybe when the season starts again. Martinez, yeah. It's possible, but I'd be like... Possess a great shot. Because the thing is, this final turn, I was very annoyed at them, but they were playing brilliantly. Paul Hurst's reports were like, wow, they've done it again, the holders, they find a way to win, Lionel Messi, da-da-da. That was the general narrative. Now they're pantomime villains. Now, and we've not even mentioned the... Aftermath. ...blatant thuggery of what happened afterwards.

15:59I mean, Paredes, what on earth? That guy... It looked like he was ready to throw a punch at one stage and he's swinging people around Also just screaming in the referee's face All of that too Martin Ziegler tweeted this yesterday that directive has been completely forgotten as it always is Don't surround the referee for years and years and years a directive you can't sound the referee and then even advance to only captains can speak to the referee and it gets forgotten and that's another thing that spoils games like the aggression of the Argentinian players the same in England game it's been the same throughout most of the tournament when they've It's like it makes the game more bitty and attritional.

16:37They're always in his face and complaining. Just book them. Just book them. Then they have to stop. I wish they would just remember this directive.

16:46Tom Allnutt: The stuff at the end reminded me, I was saying before, it reminds me when I used to play on Hackney Marshes. The lads would come for a bit of football and also a punch-up. And at the end, if they lost the game, they'd be like, great, we can have the punch-up now. And the referee is sprinting off into Stoke Newington or something. It's very close. That's the end of the game. It was that kind of thing, wasn't it? It was comical. I felt sorry for some of the Spain players. Really sorry. This is their moment here. And they're having to deal with this admin of the Argentina players. So was it Alex Garcia who gets his throat grabbed by Paredes and then gets surrounded by four coaches from Argentina who pretend that they're doing him a favour but look pretty aggressive?

17:21And was it poor little Gavi on the floor? Thrown, yeah. Getting piled on? It was absolutely disgraceful. You're the World Cup holders. Paredes did it in the game. As soon as he came on, he barged Georgie in the back. got booked and then he did it immediately afterwards again. Like, it wasn't quite as forceful, but they were always just in the kind of trying to be under that line where you're not going to get sent off. But the referees, I don't think the officials clamped down anywhere near enough and that allowed the game to be cynical. And there was a lot of fouls that weren't even given as fouls.

17:52There was loads of them out there. As you're watching, you're thinking, surely that's got to be a foul. And the referee's waving play on. I'm thinking, well... Is there a way of fixing this, though, from a referee? Well, change of directive has to be. Can you do what I'm saying of like, give it 20 minutes and see how it's panning out and actually you're taking it too far and then start. But is that the answer? What's the answer? Well, that's what referees do. That's what they tend to do. He said, you know, McAllister's first tackle, you think, I think even the commentator said, if that was 50 minutes later in the game, then it's probably getting booked.

18:22You know, they're always trying to get the feel for the game, but they actually, you know, dictate how the game is going to unfold. Because if you allow that to go, then you're saying that's a challenge it's okay later in the game so in a final as well they don't want to I know they don't want to be remembered they don't want to be remembered

18:39Tom Allnutt: I think they generally don't want to spoil the game they know that there's a billion people watching they don't want to send someone off Howard Webb waited the longest any refs ever waited to send anyone off for the Netherlands well I said before this game Tom it's like the crazy gang were playing you know the Wimbledon crazy gang of what the antics they used to get that was 1980s you know I just was so surprised that so much was let go after the England game the disappointment is that when they do start to play football exactly that half an hour I thought crikey there I could do all the players that become bouncers for Messi suddenly remember what they can do when they get the ball they've got a very good place and actually although they were down to 10 men but it briefly flickered they had the chance that Simeone hit with a bar after having a few set pieces oh you're gutted for the Simeone family to see that happen The one that Messi played down the line and they crossed and Kubarsi had to make a great block to prevent, I think, maybe Tagli Fico sticking at him.

19:37So they turned it up again. They turned the volume up when they needed to, even with 10 men. Just do that. Cutting the game. A country of that much ability in the history of some of the greatest players to play the game, that they result to what they did. That's a shame. Even Messi started doing it. Did you see with Kukureo when he did the little Kukureo brief who went like that and Messi turns around and goes, Eh, miss, miss, Kukureo said something mean. Have a look on your screen.

20:02Tom Allnutt: The Simioni one was good as well. He saw the ball coming over, right? Oh, and he just stopped. And he was sort of waiting. He thought, I'm just going to try and I'm going to slow down. He's going to knock me over. And I'm going to... It was just like, it was so premeditated. Yeah, lovely. Absolutely ridiculous. I mean, it's a shame for Messi to end like this, isn't it? He's had a lot of good moments. Had some fun? Yeah. It can't always be good. You know, like, I think it's... And also, it's his decision to carry on. You know, like, he won it last time. Yeah. I said to you before that I had a certain simmering resentment about Messi being dominant about this tournament again, you know?

20:31Tom Allnutt: You've had your time. He could have gone out on high and he chose not to. And he still had that moment at the end. There's been some people saying that it was bad of the Argentina players to kind of have their backs to the awards ceremony as Spain were lifting the trophy. But they were in front of their supporters and they were singing and serenading them. And that's when the tears, the emotion, you know, the tears broke and the emotion came out. So, you know, he had that moment. He had that kind of thank you from all the fans. And this tournament will be remembered. In 10 years' time, I think people will look back on this tournament and say, what do you remember about it?

21:00Tom Allnutt: And I think Messi will be in the top three things that people remember the 2026 World Cup for. Definitely, absolutely. We'll talk about some memories in the second half of the show. Anyone got anything better to say on that halftime show than Wayne Rooney? The answer can be no, because that was, I mean, he spoke for a nation, didn't he, then, when he said that? It was crap. Perfect, perfect. And also, so much better delivered in a Scouse accent as well. Absolutely wonderful stuff from Wayne Rooney, one of the pundits of the tournament, cementing his place. We talked already about this end of this tournament, me reassessing my view that this is the greatest World Cup ever after those semi-finals and final.

21:33But thank God for the old third, fourth place playoff, eh? We heard from Matt Lawton and Ian Whittle at this game. Absolutely bonkers. Absolutely bonkers. It was nice of France. Thank you very much, France, as well, for only turning up for about 20 minutes of this one just to help Thomas Tuchel lift the spirits of this England team. But as I mentioned on yesterday's show, England's best ever finish at a World Cup on foreign soil. Their best ever finish since 1966. overall. Does it quite feel like that?

22:00Tom Allnutt: What do we think? I don't like the third place thing. I think it's sort of like added gloss that doesn't really mean anything. I think it's a semi-final. You know, they got to the semi-finals and that's, you know, just to add the kind of third place, bronze medal, whatever you want, best finish. A Scottish bloke next to you nodding fascinantly, yeah, don't give them any medals. They got to the semis and they went out in the semis. And that's a decent result. I don't, I know that the kind of the beating France sort of adds some, makes everyone feel better. Great game. What a goal by Bellingham.

22:29Tom Allnutt: But I think in the kind of cold analysis of it, England reached the semi-finals. And when it came to it, they weren't up to the task. Has anyone got a problem with Mbappe winning the Golden Boot? As well, yeah. I think that's... I find that really weird. You've been knocked out. You think those goals shouldn't count? You've been knocked out. They always have, I think. I agree. I totally agree. I just think it's such a bad... It's a game that has a completely different feel and energy to it. And so, for him to score the goals that win the Golden For Mbappe to win it in that game, which clearly was a game.

23:00I mean, France were a joke. I mean, as bad as we've been every week ago at Argentina, France were, I mean, they were laughing. Mbappe's laughing during the game. And I mean, you might go, oh, he's laughing because he's a bit embarrassed. They're 3-0 down and 4-0 down. But it was more to do with, we really ain't bothered about this game.

23:18Tom Allnutt: It was as if they had an agreement, like, we're just going to, like, you know, chill about this game, right? And England came out really hard and all the French players were like, what are you doing? We're paying for a draw. It's a draw here, lads. Don't you realise? And then we obviously see the second half. It was fantastic entertainment. So nothing particularly strongly to take in a positive way for England. Does it add to any of the kind of criticism or questioning for Thomas Tuchel? A full 90 minutes and a hat-trick for Bukayo Saka isn't a great look, I'd say, when he didn't get a single minute against Arjun Zina.

23:46Either one of his kind of comments or a sort of thinly veiled saying, although he said, I'm fit. I wish I'd played more. It seemed like he was ready to play. Yeah, look, obviously if he'd been hammered, it would have added to the sort of anger and the unease about his future. But there's been a load of anger anyway, Gregor, to that performance because everyone is looking and going, where was that offensive play that you did against, obviously, you know, against France? Where was that against Sargent-Town? I know it's a different game.

24:19Tom Allnutt: We can't say France were laughing about losing and then also say, where was the performance? That was what, where was that performance? No, no, Tom. I think it'll allow you to ask the question, won't it? No, no, but fans generally, the feeling is, it's not really the result of beating France in the manner they did. It's more to do with the way that England played the game against France. There was clear ambition from Rashford, from Saka, to get behind their back line. You can afford to do that when the game doesn't matter. I understand that some fans will think that, but I think they shouldn't because the game meant nothing, really, in the grand scheme of things.

24:53So the way they approached it, what do you learn? If Saka was really fit and Tuchel thought he was really fit, I think he would have played him. You're saying three days later then, Gregor, that he wasn't fit. I think it's a surprise that he played the longest game of the tournament. Rice as well. Rice looked like Rice of what everyone expected him to be. Declan Rice is a phenomenon, isn't he? Hasn't he played 69 games this season? He's been absolutely flogged. He looked in bits at the end. Did you manage 69 games in three seasons? No. I don't mean that in a mean way. That's just a lot of football games, isn't it?

25:25No, I'm serious. I managed 40 or more games in like two or three seasons of my career. What they're doing is extraordinary. Yeah, absolutely. And doing it season after season. I get that. It's not good for you. I mean, it does help having a week in between midweek. If you're going Saturday, Tuesday, Saturday, Wednesday, and continually over the course of a season, of course it's going to drain you and you're going to lose your edge. And we saw that with Declan Rice, that he did have way more energy. and it's a bit like driving into positions that it was and then one well that's what Declan does really well

25:53Tom Allnutt: there was one point in the middle of the tournament where Rice had like I read the guys saying he's got a calf problem he's got a hamstring strain and he's feeling sick he's got three things but he'll be alright speaking of Declan Rice and midfielders we've touched on your piece in the Sunday Times Tom about Spain's academy depth at midfield obviously Declan Rice a huge tournament for him Elliot Anderson I think particularly impressive for England but again we've ended a tournament we're talking about England and control in games Your piece kind of suggesting that there's something to be learnt from Spain and the kind of inevitability of the way in which they play the game that England could maybe look at.

26:26Tom Allnutt: Yeah, and I think it's really important that the distinction here is not about good players. Like England, we've moved on from the debate 10 years ago. It was sort of like, you know, well, we're not technical enough. Why are we not bringing through, you know, more kind of technicians in midfield? We've moved on from that. England have good players. No one's denying that. Declan Rice is a better footballer than Fabian Ruiz. I think that's clear. and Rice, for example, is technically excellent. His ball-striking ability, he can take corners, look at the goal he scored, he's fantastic technically.

26:54Tom Allnutt: It's not a matter of talking about technical skills anymore. It's about this thing that they have in Spain and they call it understanding the game. I really think that in Spain particularly and in other countries, there's this culture where players have to think for themselves more. And I think you look at the midfielders that Spain have, you know, Rodri particularly, but you know, Fabregas, Iniesta, Xavi, these kind of players, they read the game as it goes on, you know, and they adapt as it goes on. And they're not looking at the bench saying, you know, what are the subs? You know, what's the system?

27:25Tom Allnutt: What are we playing boss? You know, it's sort of, yeah, the coach is there, but it's our job to adapt to the challenges. And that comes right from the bottom. You know, you talk to people in, I was talking to, you know, one of the coaches at Betis, where Gavi and Fabian Ruiz started. And he's saying that, even in the drills we do, we make them have challenges all the time. We change the pitch so it's a weird sort of diamond shape in the middle of the game and everyone goes, what's going on here? We add goals in random places. So it's like, okay, now we've got to do this. Or we suddenly put two players on one team.

27:54Tom Allnutt: So it's 14 v 8. And it's like, okay, this is a challenge for us and we've got to adapt. So you're always thinking. You're training players to sort of think for themselves. And I think it's not about passing. It's not about playing with your left foot. But we're not saying I don't think that England players aren't excellent players. They really are. But I do think that in matches, there's a sense that Spanish players, you know, other players from around Europe, I think they have that ability in their mind to say, okay, this is happening here. Like, how can we control it? Like, how can we impose ourselves and dictate the tempo on this match?

28:25Tom Allnutt: You know, and one other kind of strand to it, you know, talking to people in the kind of Spanish system was about the kind of the blurred lines between coaching and players. It's so much more kind of, I think in this country, we have an idea that the manager is there. And maybe it's about the Premier League because we see it every week. You know, the manager is such a strong thing and, you know, the whole sort of Ferguson legacy. And I think in Spain, footballers, even first team players at places like Real Sociedad and Barcelona and, you know, and Athletic Bilbao, they're helping coaching the youth teams.

28:54Tom Allnutt: It's sort of preparing them to be coaches when they're older. But it's also about this idea that we want the players to be sort of mini coaches. We want them to understand the systems and the tactics. It's not just about what you do with the ball. It's also what you do in your brain. and you watch England when they play, I don't think they have that ability to navigate themselves through games. And in that kind of 20-minute period after half-time, you think, well, you know, after the goal, sorry, you know, who's controlling this game? It's not because Rice isn't a good footballer. It's not because Anderson, 116 million joining Man City, isn't a good footballer.

29:23Tom Allnutt: They're good footballers. I just think it's a culture where you have to teach them to also manage football matches as well. Thoughts on that? Yeah, it's a great piece. and a couple of bits that leapt out to me was, you were saying there's also a feeling that maybe the most technical footballers in England are pushed higher up the pitch. And there's also the different names for the position of a defensive midfielder, a holding midfielder. And it's like the controller or the pivot in Spain. So there's just a different attitude to what that player should represent. And that's what we're talking about, really.

30:00the player at the heart of the pitch I kind of control her I like I've I've kind of you know that's been the conversation over the last few days I'm still also slightly hesitant about what England should be aspiring to I don't I don't think England should aspire to be in Spain you spent so long trying to look around at everyone else and see what you know what try and take the best from different nations and you know develop your own sort of blueprint what do you think what do you think it is though is there a team that you're like that should be it I know that's an impossible question, but is there a team that come to mind and a Premier League team?

30:33Tom Allnutt: Well, Tuchel said, let's play like the Premier League. Yeah. And I sort of agree with Gregor, I'm split on this. England should play like England and they should think, what are our strengths and let's do that. They can't play like Spain because Spain is Spain, it's a cultural thing. But I also wonder, can you win a World Cup playing in the Premier League? Given the fatigue, given the heat that's often the case, the conditions, given it's the end of the season, given that in these kind of tight knockout matches, we've seen again and again and again, you don't win by playing basketball and playing high pressing.

31:01Tom Allnutt: You win by controlling the game. And so I wonder, like, does the Premier League style, does it actually win you World Cups? I don't know. Yeah. So I'd add on to that. I think that, especially with all the international teams I've played against in my career, and Spain were one of them, we actually beat Spain in Dublin on 1-0 when they had Michel in midfield. And I've always felt they identified the guy that's really important to their team. And it could be a Rodri. It could be a Zidane. You know, in all different positions that ultimately make the team really click and work, but in their way. It doesn't have to be, well, you have to have the best rugby in the world just to win the World Cup.

31:36You might have the best other position that you know can make a difference in games. And I think a lot of foreign nations do that very well. It would be an enormous cultural reset because it's not just about the football and culture. It would be about supporters. Because, like, if England pass the ball around at the back in Wembley, you see paper airplanes flying around. People don't want to watch Spain and England. They don't. As we were talking earlier, there's a constitution of supporters in this country who don't like watching Man City under Pep Guardiola. So to turn England into that. I also think it's partly about bravery too.

32:14It's not necessary. Tom's right. It's not about skill set. It's about players like someone like Elliot Anderson, I think, could do that job. But people have looked at him throughout his career. And when he got into the Newcastle team, it was wide left on a front three. Or because he's got such a good engine and physicality, he's an eight. He's an all-action number eight. He could do that job, but he's never been asked to do it. So it's about the kind of expectations and what players are asked to do as they kind of develop.

32:46Tom Allnutt: You're saying in the Spanish system, they have this thing they call the pas de seguridad, which is like a safety pass, you know, which is basically when everything's going forward really fast and everyone's a bit out of position, can someone play the safety pass? Back in. Reset. Everything's in front of you again. Take a breath. You know? In England, like, it's that thing, isn't it, where you have a counterattack and the winger decides to turn back and keep it and everyone goes, oh, you know? It's like, why have you done that? Take him on, you know, because that's the culture. We want forward.

33:13Tom Allnutt: We want fast. And you know what? That makes the Premier League what it is. There'll be a lot of people who say, I do not want the Premier League to be like La Liga. And I think that's entirely fair. You see a middle ground there, Tom, somewhere along the line that you can have that but also do the other thing. I guess that's the golden ticket, right? The balance, yeah. That's, to me, the standout because you can't do everything that's so obvious. I mean, saying that, Argentina took four short corners on the spin against England and one of them eventually worked. But doing the same thing, I just think it's that mentality of the player that goes on the pitch and can do one or the other at times.

33:47And they're the truly great players for teams. Yeah, so what we're saying is 70 % England, 30 % Spain. We'll get there in the end. I think 5 % Argentina too. I thought you were going to say 5 % Scotland for a minute there. Oh, we don't want to be a part of that. But that, listeners, is exactly the kind of deep-thinking football debate we like to have on the game podcast. Regular listeners are used to it. If we have got some new listeners from this workup, we hope you've enjoyed it. We will be back with that kind of big-thinking football analysis regularly throughout the season, Mondays and Thursdays, and me and Gregor Robertson try to apply that theory to the Football League every fortnight as well.

34:22Also, there's always a quiz. And I'm bringing back the quiz question for the final World Cup show. Greg has pumped. Look at him. He's like, come on, give me the quiz question. To take us into this break. Spain's Ferran Torres was just the second substitute to score the winning goal in a World Cup final. Who was the first? Find out after the break.

34:49Quick question. When was the last time a display ad changed your mind? Now think about the last time a friend told you about something they loved. Different feeling, right? That's how podcast advertising works. A host who's built real trust with their audience talks about your brand in their own words, in their own voice. It doesn't interrupt the experience. It's part of it. With Acast, you can access the world's largest podcast marketplace. Choose the right shows, the right audiences, the right format. Then watch the data tell you it worked. You're not buying impressions. You're buying influence.

35:23Learn more by visiting acast.com slash advertise.

35:35Welcome back to the Game Football Podcast from the Times and Sunday Times. This is our final daily World Cup show of the 2026 tournament. And we returned with a quiz question. Bit of teamwork on this. We liked it. Bit of teamwork in that debate about the state of modern football before the break and a bit of teamwork in the quiz question. Gregor Robertson is fuming, though, because he did the clue. And then Tom Olmert nipped in with the answer, which was?

35:58Tom Allnutt: Goetzer. Mario Goetzer. It's all about the finish, really, isn't it? It's not about the tee-up. Sod the build-up. It's all about the win at the back post. We can all pass the ball around with you. The header, Goetzer, 2014, also against Argentina. Another gratuitous dig against Argentina for you there. I'm really sorry. Not really. Tom, before we continue, we all think you're nuts. You're absolutely mental. But it's been an incredible effort over the last five or six weeks, staying up through the night, watching 104 games, 39 consecutive podcasts, all with a four-month-old daughter. It's been a pleasure.

36:33So we got you a little something. What is this? We got you a medal with an engraving. Oh, you little childless. World Cup 2026 completed it. Is that the first medal you've ever got, Tom? Yes, Tony, it is. And there's a few other bits in here. Tom Clark, World Cup, 2026 completed. Lovely. Lovely stuff. And we've got a few other bits in here because you're so sleep deprived. You've got some chamomile tea to help you get off to sleep. A little sleep mask. Look at this! Scottish themed. And also because you're looking a bit pasty, some vitamin D. It's been too long in the dark, mate. How's that? Yes, I definitely need that.

37:09I do look a bit ill, don't I? Shall I leave this on? This is beautiful. Ah, thanks. That's so nice. He's pleased with that. He's very pleased with that. That's so nice. I always knew this is how the World Cup would end. Thank you very much, everybody. That's so very, very kind. Well done, re-effort. Very, very kind. I'll stick the bag down here out of the way.

37:26Tom Allnutt: What was the lowest point, Tom? What was the moment when you really questioned your life choices? I think I've said this before. A couple of the early games were quite like, ooh, the 5am kick-offs when the sun was fully up. And, you know, my young daughter's starting to murmur in the bedroom next door and I'm thinking, I'm not even near finished here. Probably the toughest point was Morocco's equaliser against the Netherlands, though. I've talked about this already. I was really flagging because I think there'd been an earlier night the night before and then I was back on the proper nights. It was 4am.

37:55I was like, I'll get my head down for a little bit here and brushing my teeth as the cross came in. It was like, Diop! Oh, you're joking me. I've got extra time. I was at that game as well.

38:04Tom Allnutt: It was a good game, actually. But then Koeman absolutely killed it in extra time, didn't he? With like 19 defenders in midfield. and so you were just sat, I was just sat there like this, waiting for penalties going, oh, for God's sake, what am I doing? Because then I still had to record a link to your podcast bit. Yeah. Poor producer Neil. Anyway, thank you very much. That's absolutely wonderful. And yes, Tony, this is the first medal that I've won since. Maybe under 16's cricket triumph with Clifton Cricket Club in the Bolton Leagues. Oh, the boys. Good time. We went unbeaten that year, actually.

38:34Fantastic performance. Anyway, we're not quite finished the World Cup yet. We've got to wrap it up with some fun and some awards of our own. and maybe dish out some medals as well. I thought it'd be fun to start by picking our team of the tournament. A tricky task, made trickier by the fact that I'm not going to let us pick more than one player per nation. Tony Cascarino was very upset about this beforehand. He was like, Tom, we need two per nation. I'm not just doing one. I'm not coming on the show without it. But we're doing one. We're doing one. So it's a team effort. It's a team effort. Let's start with goalkeeper.

39:02I've got the suggestion of Orlando Gil from Paraguay. Thoughts? Good one. That's a good show, yeah. Tall. Yeah, handsome. Good at penalties. Very good at penalties. Probably the only nice guy in that team as well. Although I'm sure he'd probably kick you if he gave you the chance. Other suggestions? Tony, you had Costa at Portugal. Yeah, Portugal, I thought he sort of saved them for a bigger embarrassment. I think you could easily have Unai Simon as well, but we're probably going to have to keep our Spain vote back.

39:29Tom Allnutt: Martinez as well, Emi Martinez for the final performance. I'm afraid there's no Argentine.

39:37I might let you have Messi. Yes, Vecina as well. Yeah, big Vos. I think we've got to keep them. We know who we're keeping back from the Cape Verde Brigade. So we'll keep Orlando Hillard Costa as the two.

39:49Tom Allnutt: I think I'll have room for Curacao. Yeah, he had a very good game against Ecuador. Very good game. 0-0 draw. That was another tough. I think, you know, in the team. We could do Ilo. Can we concede seven? We can't have a goalkeeper, Tom. We concede seven, but what about the next one? The 0-0. We'll keep it in mind. It's on the short list. It could do. Tom Allnut, of course. There's no room for him. Tom Allnut, of course, who did go to Curacao. So perhaps he's trying to make sure he gets an invite back to some of their nicest hotels on a family holiday at some point. Let's keep those in mind. We'll come back and do a completed team at the end.

40:23Right back, I've got a big shout for Daniel Munoz of Colombia. What a couple of games he had early in the group stages. He was one of the people who made those late nights not difficult. The energy up and down that right wing. And his opening goal against Uzbekistan, I think it was, was one of the more underrated finishes. is a stretching volley. I really like a stretching volley. They're difficult to do, aren't they, Tone? Never done one, Tom. They're that difficult. Stretching headers, yes. Not even in training. Stretching headers, yes, absolutely. Other suggestions? I mean, Pedro Porro could be in there as well.

40:52He could. I'm real. He's really surprised. He's played far above levels. It's absolutely amazing, isn't it? Tottenham giving him a new contract. He was that new player. Not only have Tottenham signed a load of players, they've also ended up with Jed Spence and Pedro Porro, two of the best full-backs at the tournament. Absolute cool heroes. Tottenham are going to win the league.

41:08Tom Allnutt: Anyway, we'll save that. Third World Cup winner for the first time ever, I think, isn't it? For one team to have three consecutive World Cup winners. I think that's that now, yeah. So who's that then? Romero. Romero. Yeah. Who was one before that? Is it France? Yeah, France. Lloris. Lloris. Lloris, Romero and Poro. Oh, the Tottenham boys. It's not all bleak after all. Any other shouts for right back? Happy with Munoz? I think Munoz, yeah. Probably the best player as well. You're saving Spain for someone else. Right, centre-backs. Over to you, Gregor. Come on. Who are we going? It's got to be Pico.

41:41Pico! Pico! Pico! There's a list of Cape Verde players we could go for. I think we could have gone for Pina in midfield. I mean, Borges next to him. Borges is great too, yeah. He's great. They're both brilliant, but... Sidney Lopez Cabral. Could be. Goal of the tournament. Yeah. But, no, I think Pico's... You said you sent him off? Yeah, centre-back. Harry Suter. There's two of them. Yeah. We're playing two at the back tone, don't we? Harry Suter was outstanding. What about that penalty, though? What about that penalty? Top corner. It's not landed yet. Top corner on another continent. Yeah, yeah, I know.

42:14Pico Lopez and Harry Suter. It's not the most elite centre-back. No. You've got to save players. You're not going to get all the Spain. It's smart. It's smart. I don't mind it, yeah? Van Hecker. Van Hecker is also on my list.

42:25Tom Allnutt: Kibossi, we should mention. Yeah. Gomez for Paraguay was probably the only other player, big commanding captain. I thought he was one of those amazing centre-backs, kind of like the ones that you see in the football league who look like they can't run, but managed to intercept and block absolutely everything. I mean, Twan Zebi played really well for DR Congo. Yes, yes, that's another good shout. Well, Pico, and then I'm open. Group vote. Suter, Twan Zebi, Van Hecker. I think Kass is quite heavy and strong on Suter. I thought he was brilliant for Australia. He was absolutely brilliant until the penalty let him down.

42:55But he did step up first to take it. Left-back is a problem position. I think we could throw Gregor Robertson in there. But, I mean, Ricardo Rodriguez is the only suggestion I've got, but that's not because he had a great tournament, but just because it doesn't feel like an international tournament without seeing Ricardo Rodriguez playing for Switzerland in left-back and looking quite good. One of those players that you're like, oh, he's quite good, isn't he? Probably just because he's left-footed and got a bit of a ponytail. Any other thoughts, Gregor, the left-back union? I mean, just throw Jed Spence in there, but again, we're probably holding out for someone else, aren't we?

43:25Might have to hold back the England slot for someone, I think. Yeah. That's tough, I don't know. Listen, if you want to be the guy on an end of World Cup podcast who sacks off Jude Bellingham for Jed Spence. No, no, no, I don't think so. I don't think so. Even Nuno Mendes was like... Well, he got injured, didn't he, as well? Yeah. Anthony Robinson was the only other one, I thought, had a decent start for USA. We're going to have him. Van Venn was there at the start on the Dutch team, but they played a strange... They changed the formation all the time. It's not easy. No, I thought... You know who I'd go for, actually?

43:55Masraoui. Yes. Masraoui, although he's not really a left-back, he played left-back and he was really good. That might give us a problem in midfield. He stepped into midfield. That might give us a problem with the midfielders. But we'll keep it in mind. We'll keep it in mind. We'll come back. Oh, God, no. I think I've got a strict 4-3-3 policy going on here. We'll throw it all out the window. Defensive midfielder. Should we go for Rodri? Yeah, I think it's hard to... I think you could make a case for Elliot Anderson being England's best and most consistent player in a position that a year ago, if you'd said Elliot Anderson is going to be one of England's stars, you'd be maybe a bit surprised.

44:28But it's got to be Rodri, hasn't it? It has, yeah. Central midfield ahead of him. I'm thinking a little like kind of, you know, DM, a centre mid, an attacking mid is what I'm seeing for this team. Centre mid. I mean, Bouadi was a great tournament. Yeah, Morocco, Bouadi. Bouadi. So that then gives us a problem at left back. My other shout, which is a bit, Tielemans dragged Belgium through a lot of the time and managed to get a move to Man United as well, which I'm not saying you should be factored in whether you got a move or not, but it does make for a good summer. I love Patrick Berwick as well.

44:56That's going to give us a problem at centre forward though, isn't it? Now, well. Okay, well, we can have Bouadi. Shall we have Bouadi then? And then we've got to pick Anthony Robinson as left back. Okay. Yeah, happy with that. Yeah, right, let's do that. Bouadi, centre mid. Attacking mid. It's got to be Bellingham. It's got to be Jude Bellingham. And what a goal that was. I mean... It's sort of forgotten that goal, hasn't it? I said it. It's a John Barnes type of goal, wasn't it? He had one similar when he'd just come on and he didn't execute it. It was like just the moment he came on, just as soon as he comes onto the game, he's making the biggest impact.

45:29He's completely controlling it. I said it on yesterday's podcast. I mean, I was talking to myself because it was just me and some voice notes and some stats. But I mean, the most Jude Bellingham thing ever, isn't it? Saka hat-trick, Mbappe taking the golden boot. And he's like, Tommy, give us 10 minutes, will you? Just give us 10 minutes. I just want to go and try a few things. Unbelievable. What a tournament. Seven goals. That's the most by any England player at any tournament. More than Kane at two tournaments now playing as a striker. He's not even playing as a striker. He scored seven goals.

45:58I genuinely think there's a case that we're slightly underplaying how well he was, how good he was. If there was another attacking midfielder for Brazil or France or someone who'd scored seven goals, we'd be banging on about it. Just going back on the point Tom made earlier about the different way of thinking in Spanish football and what he's done at Madrid. He had two months of not playing last year as well for Madrid when he got injured. It felt like he was fresh. It felt like he's even grown from the player that was at Dortmund and got to Madrid the first season, which was unbelievable. And the second season was more tricky because of the way Madrid did.

46:31He did unbelievable in the tournament.

46:33Tom Allnutt: It's interesting that, just to pick up on that, because Xabi Alonso apparently when Bellingham first went to Real Madrid was a bit like, he looked at videos of what Bellingham was doing. He was like, he's everywhere. Get him in there. We need to like, you know, he runs around too much. You know, that's that kind of thing we're talking about, right? It's sort of like, you know, you've got this English player. He wants to kind of be a box-to-box, like warrior, be everywhere. Yeah. And then, you know, you've got the Spanish coach who sort of wants to get in there, you know, and stay there. It is like profile as well.

46:58I've just been in Scotland through the weekend and he's huge in Scotland Jude Bellingham like all my friends daughters and you know sons and stuff love him just walking around going like this he's huge in America like this is he's gone absolutely stratospheric in this World Cup as well and deservedly so got a kind of front three here this is where it gets tricky so let's do it all at once because I think we've got right side send striker left side which France player are we going for Elise or Mbappe goodness me I think Mbappé actually as much as I've loved the least he dropped at the last couple of games his level dropped and like Mbappé has done a bit too but he still scored goals and made talent contributions do you know what that means that's good news because you can now have Berg in midfield and you can now have Masraoui at left back because we're not going to have Haaland it's all coming together it's all coming together so then who are our wingers then who are our wingers this Messi bloke probably gets in he's still got to give it to Messi I know it was an awful final in many ways but and then the other wing who we got diamande i thought young player making a bright start i did i actually thought as crap as brazil were at times that vinicius was good yeah i would have gone vinicius um zico at egypt for a left field shout buchanan for canada liked watching them yes yeah yeah just stick carlin on the wing and hope for the best to get in the box i mean you You could play Mbappe on the left if you want.

48:23A Bosnian left winger. Yes, a very long name. He's very good. He looked really decent, but he's not good enough to be in the XI. Come on then, let's pick one though. We need one. Diamande, Vinicius or Zico at Egypt? Vinicius. I think Vinicius. Right, so that means our completed team of the tournament is... It's an alternative. It's got to be called the alternative team. Completed the definitive team of the tournament. Definitive. Definitive. I've forgotten which goalkeeper we're going for. Orlando Hill? Costa. Orlando Hill or Diego Costa both they can play a half each Daniel Munoz at right back Pico Lopez and Harry Suter at centre back Mous Roury at left back I like it Rodri it gets stronger as you go through the team Rodri at defensive midfielder Berg for Norway at centre mid Jude Bellingham and then a front three of Messi Mbappe and Vinicius good team not bad come on we could see goals

49:14Tom Allnutt: we would yeah you've got Rodri sat there it'd be fine They might beat Spain, actually, because Spain haven't got any strikers anyway, so Pico would sort it out. It would be all fine. Any other accolades that you'd like to dish out? We need to wrap up soon. I could keep talking about this World Cup forever. Favourite teams overall? I mean, no surprise which my favourite team is. The boys. The absolute boys. They'd take goal as well. Sidney Lopez-Gabrero's goal against Argentina was... It was the goal of the tournament and the moment of the tournament. Just like... It was extraordinary. Just for any new listeners who might be unaware.

49:48Possibly the game of the tournament. I am wearing a Kate Verde shirt in the studio. Gregor Robertson has got one. He's decided not to wear his with pride, unfortunately. And that game against Argentina was possibly the game of the tournament. Yeah. Because it had everything. So many peaks and troughs and comebacks. Quick, if we're brutally honest, the game in the tournament was the 6-4 England versus Argentina. But because it's France, sorry, 6-4 against France, It was... England, Mexico, surely the game of the tournament, isn't it? Yeah, I think that's probably up there. Surely.

50:22Tom Allnutt: I think that's probably right. So you're telling me the 6-4... Yeah, you can't take it seriously. You can't take it seriously. Well, why did they give the golden boot to Mbappe? I'm with you on that. Let it go, Tone. Let it go. Tom, you were there in the flesh. Any matches of the tournament that we've missed? I didn't do any absolute classics, got to say. More cultured. More thinking manful. Yeah, I was on Portugal most of the time, the group stage, that wasn't great. Croatia, Portugal. Hey, they could have. He wasn't at that one. I wasn't at that one. It was the one they didn't give me. Tough, tough kick.

50:55Tom Allnutt: I mean, I think generally, I've got to say, more broadly, one of the things I think the World Cup missed was kind of big upsets, right? I feel like there wasn't like a game where it was like, wow, this match, we never thought this would happen. Paraguay got close with Germany, but we sort of knew that Germany weren't very good. Ecuador being Germany as well, you kind of had the signs. That was one of the games. Germany weren't. What about any, on the darker side? you know the worst manager worst performance for our team yeah I should just say before people get upset that Egypt Argentina is definitely up there for game of the tournament as well there'll be a lot of people shouting at me I'd actually say Cape Verde Uruguay as well because that was when the dream began that's when you thought oh hang on a minute that 0-0 v Spain wasn't a flash in the pan these guys are a proper set of footballers here this is a proper team 0-0 yeah 0-0 the Spain one the key Uruguay Cape Verde was the 2-2 oh 2-2 right okay the long range free kick and everyone going mental yes and then the comeback equaliser and Uruguay just generally imploding as well it was a long time where did you go on the if you said you wanted to do worst if you go on the coaching side with Bielsa's Uruguay that was dreadful you had Tunisia as well and then you had Martinez with Portugal I thought really poor because that was such a gifted squad worst team is a good accolade to dish out on a podcast

52:13I'm getting there before you guys do. He got in before us. Apart from Scotland. I think for context-wise, Scotland won their game that everyone wanted them to. Don't give us the fans. We won Boston's heart. Great. You did. I'm saying that Portugal didn't. Portugal went into this, everyone going, look at that midfield. They could win it. Tom, you saw them. Worst team at the tournament, context-wise?

52:38Tom Allnutt: Yeah, proportionally to talent. To talent. Talent versus result. Yeah. Portugal, I think, probably the most disappointing. Because you look at the players they've got. With a different manager, perhaps without Ronaldo going into the Euros, you think they'll be one of the favourites. So in comparison to what they delivered, really underwhelming performances. Went out exactly when you thought they would go out. Yeah, I agree. Yeah, absolutely dismal stuff. Tunisia, though. They were pretty bad, I've got to say. Favourite goals? Have we missed any? We've mentioned Gregor has already said. Alvarez for Argentina.

53:07Alvarez, that was a pretty good finish. That was a striking half, that one. Isidore for Haiti against Morocco. that was another moment that brightened up my late night. What a strike that is. Unbelievable. And I've said this before, promised David for Canada. Lovely long ball brought down by Saliba, their midfielder, who I thought was a really classy looking player. Crossed and another stretching finish. I love a stretching finish. A little bit of effort. But that don't count. Oh, he's not happy with this third playoff. Get him on to Infantino. Zico as well for Egypt. The goal that did stand against Argentina.

53:38The one that didn't stand was actually probably the greatest goal of all time. Borough's nice little, you know, little worky-worky. Lovely little worky-worky, yeah. In terms of players that we've seen, we've mentioned some players already, the ones we know. Any that, I'm going to call this the Martin Odegaard for bloody hell, where's that been all year? Because, my God, if Martin Odegaard plays like that for Arsenal next season, they've got one hell of a player. Yeah, McAllister as well. Yeah. He was way better than he's been at club level. Borough, like we talked on earlier, but yeah. Brian Broby as well.

54:08Lovely to see Sunderland decked out across this World Cup with goal scorers all over the place. Favourite manager? Don't need to be the best manager, just your favourite. I've got a couple of suggestions. Javier Guiri for his Gordon thing. For his Gordon thing, which if you've not seen, just type it into the internet. Not for the coaching, for the swearing. Yeah, for the swearing at Anthony Gordon and the laugh afterwards is the great thing. Murat Yakin, again, kind of... I just like Switzerland being there. Just feels like an international tournament. He's very suave. lots of good memes about him looking a bit like a Bond villain and with his cigar in the changing room after they qualified I mean it's the most yeah wearing jeans and like an untucked shirt and just turning up with a nation of just over 500 ,000 people and just swaggering into the World Cup knockout stages but also in all seriousness being able to change the momentum and the flow of a game in an instant with a couple of substitutes like going from being defensive to suddenly like being the most threatening team on the counter attack or like turning the game into a big game of basketball he was magnificent yeah a lovely note to end on Kate Verde again the team of the tournament we should have given them the third place medal shouldn't we that would have been a better solution so that is it World Cup 2026 is done 39 days 39 podcasts covering 104 games if this was a high-end production we'd have a lovely emotional montage to end on but instead you'll just have to make do with the mumble thank yous of a sleep-deprived host thanks to the brilliant team of reporters on the ground at the tournament for their insights throughout this World Cup and to Alison Rudd, Tony Cascarino and especially my mate Gregor Robertson for joining me back home in the early hours.

55:44Thanks to our video producer, Jonathan and the ever wonderful producer, Neil. Thanks to you for watching and listening and getting in touch. It's always great to hear from you. We are going to take a whopping two-day break and return this Thursday with a show that catches up on what we've missed elsewhere in the footballing world. Can't wait. See you then.

56:34We'll see you next time. See who's listening and book host read sponsorships or run your own ads all from one platform. Transparent pricing, real time data, complete control. Start advertising on podcasts by visiting a cast dot com slash advertise.