Alex Albon: Why I'm ready to be a champion (E226)

0:28Watch it early on the High Performance app. Hi there, you're listening to High Performance, the award-winning podcast that unlocks the minds of some of the most fascinating people on the planet. I'm Jake Humphrey, and alongside Professor Damien Hughes, we learn from the stories, successes and struggles of our guests, allowing us all to explore, be challenged and to grow. Here's what's coming up today. When you go into the car, that's my space. That's where I belong. So everything goes away at that point. we put our helmet on and as soon as that helmet goes on and our earplugs go in we're alone I want to make this team work I really do believe that I enjoy working at this team I enjoy this family feel that this team has and I feel like I'm at near my peak I'm ready I'm ready to win races to fight for a championship if that call came through so confident in where I am right now compared to where I was back then, that I know I could join any team and I know I would do a good job.

1:32So today we welcome one of the nicest guys in sports, Alex Albon, to the podcast. He's one of the most talented Formula One drivers of the modern era, but he's also a man who knows the pain of top level sports. Now here's the really interesting thing. We've never recorded a podcast episode like this before, because we actually recorded this in two separate days. Alex joined us at the Williams factory. And then a few days later, after we'd sat and spoken for a couple of hours, we got a message to say he'd like to come back. He'd like to come back and share what's happened to him since the challenging parts of his career, because he wanted this to be the ultimate conversation about what life is really like as a Formula One driver.

2:14Nothing was off the table in this conversation. He opened up about the personal issues that he had when he was younger. He gave us the truth for the first time about what it's actually like being the second driver at Red Bull and what was happening to him inside the helmet, inside the cockpit when it started going wrong at Red Bull and he lost his job. But also a couple of weeks later, we sat down again because Alex was also keen to show us that these difficult times, these challenging moments, these letdowns, these disappointments, they've created the driver we see today. So the first part was recorded just after the Qatar Grand Prix.

2:49The second part was recorded just after he came back from Brazil. Welcome along to the ultimate conversation about what it's really like to be a modern Formula One driver with Alex Albon.

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4:48let's begin where we always do what is high performance for me i would say high performance is performing under purely under the pressure of of what i what i perceive as as racing which is is what is where i need to perform at i find that especially through your ups and downs the downs are obviously clearly where it becomes most obvious where the greats become i find that if you can perform when you're struggling and in these moments pull yourself up i actually did struggle with that in my career when i had these downs i would be down down and so yeah i think that's where i find the performance performance when it's when it gets tough and were you always competitive if we sort of rewind back to your childhood where did this need to compete come from do you think?

5:38I don't think I was the most competitive kid when I was young. I wanted to win and I did win races as a kid. I was pretty okay growing up going and karting and all this kind of thing. But I also came from a fairly privileged background. I felt like racing for me at the time was a bit more of a not a fun thing but there was no pressure to it. I didn't need it. I could still going to school and having seen my friends and this kind of thing. But then at some point it turned and I think I had some family issues a few years on when I was about 14, 15. We like to call it my mum went on a holiday. But that changed me.

6:20That then became... Firstly, the financial support was gone completely but more than anything it was a need to perform. It wasn't a want. It was almost a survival feeling. This is what I have. This is the only thing I have. I've got to make this work. So that's where the mindset changed and that's where the hunger and the true competitiveness came here. When did the seeds of becoming a racing driver get us home then? Very young. I was like an obsessed kid when I was growing up. One of my first words were Ferrari, which I would call Rari. It was Ferrari and then exhausts. I loved seeing like four tailpipes, which were smokes.

7:04so I used to always shout out Smokes or Rari. I was a massive Michael Schumacher fan. I used to throw the biggest tantrums as a kid if Michael didn't win. My mom used to have a VHS of like a 2001 Formula One highlights review and I knew all the races that he won that year so as soon as I would have an off or a bad day or whatever that was straight in playing a Michael win. So I always wanted to be a racing driver. And my dad used to race. I'll call him a semi-professional. I think he would like that. But he was good. He was genuinely good at his job. And he raced in British touring cars. Not so much.

7:45Not so much. So I got into racing as he stopped. So there was a bit of a crossover there. But he was the one who, he was my engineer, my mechanic, my driver coach. That was very much a father-son thing. And I'm really interested in this period where your mindset shifted and you took this whole thing seriously. It kind of really mattered. obviously we're talking a bit in code and we won't go into the details. Your mum was jailed for a period. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The support you had disappeared. You, I guess, had to grow up at that moment. You do, yes. I also have four siblings. So in many sense, my stepdad, he looked after us and then they were going to school.

8:24Obviously for them it was a huge change as well. Private school, state school, going around. I know it sounds all very first world problem, but it meant a lot. The shift was huge. And so, yeah, there was a feeling of the unknown and a big hit in the face that you've got to sort yourself out and take this thing seriously. So it got pretty intense. And I have to say the first year as I started to adapt to this different, call it life, really, it didn't go that smoothly. You know, I was straight away kicked out of the Red Bull junior team at that time. And so this struggle became a bigger struggle.

9:01and then it was getting to the point where I thought things were starting to run out. The dream was becoming over. And I'd love to have said straight away I found form and I was off and that was what I needed to get me to click. But actually, it wasn't. It was a struggle and it made it a bigger struggle. Mentally, it was much harder. In what way? I think in the very beginning, it was just not having that support around me. That made a big difference. I actually think as well at the very beginning it was almost felt an added pressure because it felt like even if things didn't work out you still had something to fall back on it was important to me but it wasn't the only thing and in some ways I think when everything happened the pressure becomes I've got to make this work I've got to really get a grip of this and the results I had aren't good enough and this is what really matters.

10:01I was 14 at the time, 14, 15. That just adds more stress, more everything. And you do become lonely as well because at that time I didn't, I closed off my friend group. They were doing their thing. I left school at that time as well. You're by yourself and it's just not a good environment to be in. Taking a step back. You must have found some kind of freedom in this period though because you worked hard with your dad helping at this point to find you some race seats. Yeah. Fast forward of just a few short seasons and you're third place in the Formula 1 support series. So you managed to find that freedom from somewhere.

10:34Didn't you? Something clicked at some point. I started to relax a little bit. I started to not put that intensity or pressure on myself. And it was a lot about confidence. I think I lost a lot of general confidence when I had this issue. I went from casting to cars. I struggled in cars. didn't have the feeling didn't have the knowledge of single seaters as it were to begin with i struggled with general life confidence suddenly went from having a lot of friends to no friends started to be a lot more introverted so everything started to fall away a little bit become a little bit more fragmented in just who i was as a person it just took a while to glue it back up you said I think your introduction in your definition of high performance was how you deal with those dark moments.

11:24I'm interested then in, for listeners to this, what were the top tips to get through that dip? For one, it was not to take everything so to heart. It was very tough. It is that feeling like everything's coming into you. And at that time, to be fair, I did have a genuine reason to feel that way. I do think the circumstances I had were quite bad. Who were you able to? Who were you able to lean on? Who were you able to go to and say, this is how I'm feeling, this is my... I'd say my family, but it wasn't perfect. I don't want to say that I transformed as a person. I still carry this very introvertedness that I had from back then.

12:03Once I really truly believed I could get back to... Firstly, I was looking to get back to just where I was from casting point of view. I just wanted to be that driver that I was back then. but then until that point it was not that clear to me Formula 1 was this obvious pathway that I could achieve it was such a I don't think I'm a normal driver in that sense where Formula 1 was this thing and that's all I thought about that's all I wanted to be of course I wanted to be a Formula 1 driver but for me to believe it after everything that I went through I had to almost prove it to myself I needed to see it and I would say only until I got to Formula 2, until I got the call that I was going to be in Formula 1, did I actually realize I'm in it.

12:50So let's go to that moment then. You finished the Formula 2 season. George wins the title. Yes. Lando's the runner-up. You're third, right? Yes. They both get the nod pretty early on that a Formula 1 opportunity awaits for them. You didn't get the nod early on. You were set to go into the Formula E electric racing series, right? Yeah. How did you cope with that? I was I knew I was I was racing these guys I was at the time I was actually second fighting with George for the final race of the championship but I had a disastrous last race stalled twice but we'll forget that bit but these two were the young guns these were the hot shots George was a Mercedes junior driver since he was 14 15 years old and Lando was connected with McLaren for kind of the same amount of time it didn't matter to me seeing these guys have their chances in Formula 1 I thought good they deserve it they are good enough.

13:41On my side, it was a little bit like, I want that chance. So Formula E was when I got approached. Formula E is the electric racing of Formula One. It's the next best thing, career-wise, to do outside of Formula One. I got approached to do Formula E and I thought, amazing, that's great. I actually called Helmut Marko, who's the boss of the Red Bull junior program before I signed the contract just to say, just out of any chance is there a seat going in F1 before I signed this Formula E contract? And he told me no, seats are full. So you know, I signed that contract maybe three, four months before the final race of the season in Formula 2 and then it came to the last race of the year and Helmut Marco got me back again.

14:32So the guy who told me and there's no space. And I thought, great, he's agreed to my terms on my simulator contract. I don't know what it is. I think it's just something he does occasionally. We're speaking about this contract the whole time. This is too much, da-da-da, okay. As I was walking out the door, he was like, by the way, what's your position with your contract, with your Formula E contract, can you get out? And I did make sure, the one thing I did make sure with my Formula E contract was to have a clause in it that if I had a Formula One offer, I was good to go and I said well that's the way it is and he said okay let me get back to you and then within 24 hours it was almost pretty much all done and I was a Formula 1 driver wow excitement, fear, apprehension, what are you thinking?

15:22totally honest, more fear than anything else maybe you see it with me I was a very kind of not the most confident person going through I needed this kind of feeling like I didn't feel like I was quite there yet and had these stumbles along the way. And so when this Formula One opportunity came about, I thought, am I ready now? A lot of the drivers, for example, like George or Lando, they did a lot of testing in old F1 cars, in previous F1 cars before they started. I was going to start my first year in Formula One with literally zero days. I was more anxious and felt like I've got to make the most of this situation.

16:03I haven't been dealt the best cards for this opportunity. But it's Formula One, I've got to take it. What was the fear? What were you fearful of? Formula One is so cutthroat. It's your only moment. You can't mess up. There's drivers who take a bit too long in the championship to get going. It was just, can I get up to speed quick enough? I did have that self-belief that I would be quick enough, but did I have the time to get there? There was this huge build-up. I remember arriving to the first test. It was, as I said, Barcelona. Nervous, of course, but excited too, to drive this Formula One car.

16:42I come out the pit lane. I do three corners and I spin and I put it into the gravel trap. And I remember, I was like, oh, God, okay. I've spun before, no big deal. But then you come in to the garage. There's like a medical car to take you in and there's like 20 cameras just waiting for you. And I was like, wow, this is F1. It sounds that you're aware of the demands that are being placed on you in this seat. The consequences of spinning are evident with all those photographers waiting for you when you come back in. Yeah. You're describing the moment you put the helmet on. Yeah. You're focused on your own abilities.

17:19Yes. So how do you quieten that voice that is nagging away with that inner doubt? It's strange, but I think racing cars are quite unique where we are our own person. We put our helmets on and as soon as that helmet goes on and our earplugs go in, we're alone. It's quite an intimate sport. There's no feeling like anyone's watching you. At least I don't feel like anyone's watching me. I don't feel like my engineers, even though they're talking to me, they're not there with me. And maybe it is this feeling of being slightly introverted, but it's actually where I feel the most calm, the most focused.

18:00When you go into the car, that's my space. That's where I belong. So everything goes away at that point. It went away and things went well and you represented yourself brilliantly. And then you suddenly have another change come to your career. You're no longer a Toro Rosso driver. your one phone call from being a Red Bull driver? It's a very odd situation where I was getting started to get very comfortable. At Toro Rosso, started off well, had a good first test. And then the first few races started to have some good races. I'll qualify my teammate a few times. The pressure, every race was becoming less and less.

18:34I knew after the first race, I knew I belonged. I knew I've got what it takes and I do genuinely believe in myself. And then summer break comes around and then I get the same guy, Helmut Marko, calls me back, back to his office, this time in Austria. That's a bit more serious. You had no idea why? No idea why. I thought it was to go through my residency because he was helping me move to Monaco and it was the same conversation. So he spent the whole time talking to me about this one thing. And then just as the meeting ends, he goes, oh, by the way, you're in the Red Bull seat. I think this is the number to speak to.

19:13this is going to be your engineer, maybe give him a call and figure out. You can't go to the factory, right? Because it's shut down. So everything's legally or by rule, regulation. You're not allowed to speak to anyone during shutdown. But you are going to be announced in about two hours. And that was it. And by the way, obviously at that time, your teammates, literally one of the best drivers in the world. So good luck. And that was six months after my first time in a Formula One car. so it was big. What were the kind of emotions that you experienced in that conversation? Am I good enough? Can I do this?

19:50What's it like to be Max's teammate? I've got two weeks now of nothing just thinking about this opportunity but I can't drive, I can't get into my happy place, I can't get my helmet on. I've got to just prolong this anxiety out. But of course I went into it with more confidence than I did the first time. But it's these opportunities, you just have to take them because Formula One, the way it is, it's so cutthroat but at the same time I thought to myself there are so many drivers who would kill for this opportunity there's so many drivers who wish they could have a spot at a top team and within six months you have got that already you're not going to reject it and I think in hindsight it was probably a bit too early I definitely was not prepared enough for my first year in a top team what do you mean by that?

20:41there's so much that goes on in Formula 1 people always think it's the driving side of things you've just got to perform in the car when it matters and all these kind of things but truthfully for me especially the biggest thing to get used to was everything around of it once you're in that top team the spotlight gets put on you far more than what it was like at Toro Rosso the first race that I went to back it was in Belgium the attention around this whole swap seat swap was massive every mistake every thing you do gets criticized it's quite a hot seat the seat that i was in it's been moved around a fair bit i struggled with the media attention to begin with i also didn't have a manager i didn't have anyone around me so in terms of a personal support i had my family but i was going about it alone you I'd go to the racetracks by myself and I had my trainer to be fair, but it was just us two going around.

21:42But there's also this just general knowledge about racing. But in Formula 1, firstly, the engineering level is far advanced to anything that happened in Formula 2. But also, when I'm struggling with a car, what do I need to do? Do I need to do some settings on my steering wheel? Will that help? There's literally 30 or 40 different things you can do to solve one problem. and I had no knowledge, really. I didn't have experience. I never went through these problems before. I was underprepared, really. I just didn't have that racing experience, but life experience too. And how did you walk in there and try and bring the team around you?

22:22What did you say to your engineers, your side of the garage, to give them the confidence that this new guy that's been pitched into a team halfway through a season is going to do what Pierre Gasly, who was booted out of the team this season, wasn't able to do, who's also a great driver, by the way. He is, yes. I tried to do most of my talking on the track, really, which I don't think was, again, the greatest thing. At the time, I was 23. So I was still quite awkward and I didn't really understand how to build a relationship that well, especially with 100 people. Really, realistically, 1 ,000 people at a factory, but 100 people at the racetrack.

23:00So I just came in quite quiet, did my race, had a great race, but that's it. there wasn't much deeper than that. And how soon did you begin to think, I'm maybe struggling a little bit, I need to do something more? Did you never have a thought in that second half of that season? It was, so the year after especially was the troubled year. That's when I really started to struggle at Red Bull. What changed then? Because you think you've done the half season great. Yeah, it was great. It was good for a first year. Still was behind a little bit with Max, but had some really good showings. some qualifyings went really well and some races did too the year after the car changed quite a lot, it became much more tricky to drive and I think that's especially where experience helps to get you out of these problems I didn't really know what direction the car needed to go in, I didn't know how to drive around the problems as well which is a big issue and I had a driver who could drive pretty much anything it didn't really affect him too much so what I ended up realising in hindsight what I ended up going down was this feeling of over-analyzing, being over-critical, kind of going a little bit more down that road.

24:11So I spent so much energy in trying to find the solution, trying to find the problem, when really I believe I should have took a step back a bit, trusted myself a bit more, not go through the data so much. I was looking at the data non-stop, having meetings non-stop, coming back to Milton Keynes at the factory, doing all that kind of stuff, doing extra sim days, trying to find solutions for the car and all this kind of thing. Forcing it almost. Forcing it, exactly. And being over-analytical. So sometimes in that sense, it just doesn't work out. And that's the part where now I've come back from that a little bit and be a bit more relaxed.

24:46And how much of it was the fact you were up against Max? So many people have talked about the Red Bull second seat. You can give us the definitive answer of what it is like to be Max Verstappen's teammate. How would you describe it? a lot of people say that car is built around him. He's the Michael Schumacher or Ferrari. He's created this team around him. But truthfully, the car is what it is. He is very quick. So what ends up happening is he has quite a unique driving style, actually. It's not that easy to get along with. My driving style is a bit more on the smooth side. But I like a car that has a good front end.

25:29so quite sharp, quite direct. Max does too, but his level of sharp and direct is a whole different level. It's eye-wateringly sharp. And to give people kind of maybe an explanation of what that might feel like, I don't know if you guys play computer games at all, but if you bump up the sensitivity completely to the max and you move that mouse and it's just darting across the screen everywhere, that's how it feels. becomes so sharp that it makes you a little bit tense and so what ended up happening was especially during my year you start off being a little bit behind but not by much and then as the season goes on and Max wants this front end in the car he wants his car to be sharper and as it goes sharper and sharper he goes quicker and quicker and for you to catch up you have to start taking a little bit more risk you might be a couple of tenths behind one session I'll just try a little bit more okay I've gone off, I've had a crash so then you've got to restart then you've lost a little bit of confidence it takes a little bit more time that gap's growing a little bit and then the next time you try and go out and do another job, another spin or another whatever and it just starts to snowball and every time the car becomes sharper and sharper you start to come more tense and I think it's like any sport if you start to not be in that flow state and you're having to really think about it and every time you go into a corner, you don't know how it's going to react.

27:02You don't have that. It doesn't work. It never works. So were you enjoying being a Red Bull driver at this point? Not at all, no. I was struggling, I think. I was struggling with the attention around it. You know, of course, I deleted all my socials and I got away from the social media side of the thing. I think Formula One in itself is a whole different topic about the new generation and the new fan base that comes with it. It is very different, but it was quite toxic, truthfully. What do you mean by that? Your seats are under the spotlight, the memes that come after you. It's a very Gen Z kind of style of mocking where you become almost a laughing joke and it's the easy go-to.

27:41Whenever something happens, it's always a quote of yours or a spin of yours or whatever it may be. So you get rid of it as much as you can, But Thursdays at a track, you can't. You have media day. And I think most sports might be similar to ours, but there's only two drivers in their team. So you get assigned a lot of time with them. And so the questions you get, you're not performing, who could replace you or this driver's performing, what do you think about him or why are you struggling and all these kind of things. As much as you ignore it, you can't. You actually can't because on a Thursday, you figure out what everyone's been saying.

28:19I was going to ask, as a self-confessed introvert, how do you handle this? Not very well. I would say, to begin with, I blocked it out, took a stiff arm, and tried to get rid of most of it as I could. But the reality of it was it doesn't really work because of these moments where you can't ignore what's going on just because you're getting reminded of it. And it's just noise at the end of the day. And I think, as I understood that it's just noise, I felt, and this sounds strange to say, the more I was self-aware about it, as long as I had my core roots and core feelings of where I'm at and the progress I'm making and the areas I'm working on, it really stopped getting to me at some point.

29:04and I just started to just focus on myself. So, you know, psychologist, working with my trainer, working on certain areas of my racing. I was quite lucky where I had a year away from the sport. So as the negativity grew and grew, by the end of the year, I got to this point where I was flat. I was just destroyed mentally and didn't really have much motivation. It was realistically about six or seven months to process everything and to go back in and to fix it. What was the support network like for a 23-year-old suddenly under the glare of the spotlight, possibly having some mental health challenges and needing to speak to a psychologist, talk about it in the truth for what it was?

29:48What help was there from the team to understand your position? I think Red Bull especially, they have one extremely quick driver, but they're not that used to having young drivers in their team. so you know there was help and there was advice when needed but it's not that obvious actually and so I was with my trainer we looked at sports psychologists just to see if I need to get that confidence back in that inner belief back but it's very small and I think people don't realize that Formula One as much as it is a team sport it's still very individual you have the team and the team do care about you and they do want the best for you.

30:31But it's a strange sport where you have your little circle. It's a team within a team. It's really tough. It's really tough when you don't perform. What was the toughest moment when you look back on that season? It's obvious to say the moment when I got told I wasn't in the team anymore, but I kind of expected it. There was not one moment that stood out, but I think it was just a repetition of not clicking. And every time you're putting so much energy to try to find a solution, you're working hard to try and find a... This is the weekend. This is when it goes right. Exactly. Or we did this on the simulator and that made me feel a bit more confident in the car.

31:11This is going to be the thing that gets me going. This is the thing that's going to work. You're out for the weekend. Doesn't do anything. Doesn't work. So you end up just getting, I guess in some ways, defeated. You used the phrase, Alex, around that time when you said that I was destroyed. Yeah. Which is quite a dramatic phase. And I'm interested in what that looked like to you. But more interestingly, what was the steps that you took to rebuild yourself? So I realized there was two areas I needed to work on. It was first, I felt like I was too much of a yes man at Red Bull. So I was too eager to impress and to please.

31:48So I would always say yes to a lot of things. and I realized my energy, my mental energy, was far too drained even before I got into the car to begin with. And the second thing was just pure performance. Where were my weaknesses to Max? What areas of the car? Was he able to drive these style of cars? Why could he drive it like this way? What areas in race management did I struggle with compared to him? And so I created almost two areas, these two sides. The kind of the racing side and the non-racing side, let's say. But of course, it's all in one. Sat down with my trainer, got myself a manager, got myself a social person, got myself a psychologist, get the network going.

32:30So I had a true team. And I chose people that were maybe not the most experienced in their role, but would fight me to the death. And these are the same people that I have with me to this day. People who wanted an opportunity but cared for me. So I took a guy from Red Bull who always fought my corner. no matter how tough the situation was. He became my manager and then my trainer who's obviously been with me from the very beginning. So I created my network and then on the other side of things was the driving stuff which was actually very tough to do because I couldn't drive the car due to just not having a seat.

33:06I did a lot of work at the simulator which made me understand things a little bit better. So how do I get myself to be the best driver I can be? That's going to put me in the best position. I do that. The one key moment really that we've skipped past is the moment that you get told you're leaving Red Bull. After all the things you've explained, and honestly, it's the first time I've ever really heard a Formula 1 driver say, this is how hard it can be in the public glare. When everyone assumes your life's incredible because you're an F1 driver, actually, the sort of mental challenges that you're having to go through.

33:38Was there any part of you at that point that almost felt like a bit of a sense of relief that this was over or not? No matter how painful it was to experience it, I still wanted it more than anything. And when I got told the news... How did they do it? Christian just went to the office. He told me I used to live about five minutes from the factory, so it wasn't that bad. He told me, listen, I kind of knew it was coming. Saw it in the media a little bit beforehand, but there is this situation that's brewing. And I do genuinely believe this with Christian and Helmut. They really wanted it to work.

34:18The reason why it was told so late was because they gave me to the last race to try and show my worth. So for that I generally do believe they wanted the best for me. But it just didn't work out. And obviously Sergio is going to take your place and we'll keep you as a simulator driver if you accept. We'll try to find you a place for the year after. I remember the walk back to my car, I remember, obviously. had a few moments by myself afterwards. It was tough but I thought I would have felt the relief but all I wanted was to get back again. I think it's that kind of psychotic kind of just need.

35:02And so people often say, you know, how long did it take you to get back into it? But within a week I was back in the simulator again, preparing their car for next year, the year that I wasn't going to be in. So, yeah, it doesn't take too much. How's that then? Because you don't get into Formula One without an ego, right? You don't. It just isn't possible. Yes. What was your ego saying to you when you're basically making the car faster for the two race drivers, working hard on the scene, doing everything behind the scenes? It was the weirdest kind of yin and yang, like everything pulling away from each other because I knew the best thing I can do for myself is to do the best job for the guys.

35:49I have to commit myself more than I ever have done before and I've got to raise my stock. I've got to show not just the team, Red Bull, but I've got to show every other team on the paddock that I'm a valuable asset to this team. The best job I could do is to make this car as quick as it can go. There were some issues on the gear I drove, this feeling that I had about the car. They were genuine. I mean, it wasn't me just saying it, but we fixed a lot of these issues. And I remember in the first test, you know, when Checo and Max were driving the car, it was in Bahrain. And Max, who obviously drove the year I drove with him's car, he said, the car's transformed, it's so stable now.

36:35This is exactly what I needed in the car, you know, that's what I wanted in the car. And I thought to myself, God, if only. I was having to be selfless and it didn't really agree with me that much I was doing my job but it worked out and it was the right thing to do in the end How did you maintain your energy? Because you said in the season before it started to drain you where you had to go in and put a smile on your face and be enthusiastic even though it was tough It was so easy When you want something you don't have to work for it The desire and the motivation to get back into a Formula 1 car was so high.

37:11You know, of course, in some ways, it was pulling me this feeling of not being in a car, but helping other people. But the ambition to be back in a Formula 1 car was so high that my energy levels were sky high. Did you feel you hadn't actually had a fair crack? I felt like I had a fair crack. I just felt that already by that point in the year, I wish I knew the stuff I knew now. already just six months ago, seven months ago. I wish I had that knowledge now. So what did you do to generate interest in Formula One? I kind of did something, I think everyone would do it in the same way as me. I basically got statistics.

37:55I did my research on Pierre Gasly, who I replaced myself in the team, and then Sergio at the time, or currently in the seat. Most of it was relative to Max. speed, qualifying, race maybe 10 like an excel sheet exactly like an excel sheet the problem I had really was during the year that I struggled at Max was qualifying third or fourth sometimes even fifth finishing races generally third or fourth so then I would be maybe three four tenths off him in some races that would put me twelfth, eleventh and they were disastrous but the year after the car was first or second almost every race. Lewis and Max were fighting for the title.

38:40And Chekhov was fourth or third or fifth. But the gap between Max was actually, in most cases, bigger than it was when I was Max's teammate. He's a replacement to me, but people shouldn't discredit as much of a bad year as it was. I was still in reflection better than the teammate he has currently and the teammate he had before me. But I had this statistic and I didn't really know what to do with it and basically gave it to a couple of team bosses and started like that. And that was it, really. It was quite a nice transition. And I could tell straight away with Jos, he was very open, very warm.

39:21He believed in me. I'm convinced he most probably already had a statistic. Most teams do, actually. I think people don't know this, but they have loads of analysis on all the drivers that we don't even realize ourselves. But just me giving him that paper and showing him what I could do. And yeah, he gave me another opportunity. The trust is well placed. You know, we're sitting having this conversation and you're being spoken about now once again, up and down the paddock, you know, all kinds of big teams talking about Alex Albon. But the truth is you look totally at home in this team. Yes. So are you now driving with the very thing that you didn't have at your disposal at Red Bull, which is the freedom?

39:59Yes. Do you now feel that, you know, with all due respect to Williams, if a Ferrari, Mercedes, Red Bull rang you again. You could go to a team fighting for wins tomorrow and drive with freedom. Yes, I do. I have the inner self-confidence. It's taken a long time to get there. I don't think I'm one of these drivers who've had it from the very beginning, but I do. I feel in some ways like I owe the team for what they've given me as a chance to get back into F1, but at the same time, I know I've given them back just as much as what they've given me. if that sounds a little bit arrogant to say. I want to make this team work.

40:37I really do believe that. I enjoy working at this team. I enjoy this family field that this team has. I enjoy seeing what James Vowles can do and how he's pulling this team. Weirdly, I'm getting old. In the world of Formula 1, I'm 27 and I feel like I'm near my peak. As in, you can have your peak for a long time But I'm getting to a point where I feel like my experience and my speed is in a good place. And I'm ready. I'm ready to win races, to fight for a championship. There you go. That's a man talking who has been brutally taught the lessons of how Cupthroat Formula 1 can be. Thanks for so much honesty and so much time.

41:21No problem. Hey guys, I'm really sorry for the brief interruption to today's episode. I just want to spend the next few moments telling you about some of the fantastic partners we work with here on High Performance who make these episodes possible. But make sure you stick around because in the second half of this conversation, we're going to hear what happened when Alex called us to arrange a second conversation. The next section of today's High Performance podcast is brought to you by Indeed, the UK's number one job site, which makes finding better work easier and more effortless. And the reason why we wanted to work with Indeed is that Indeed and High Performance agree in a key area.

42:02Hiring for skills, not academic credentials. And actually the High Performance podcast team has really grown in the last six months. And every single one of the people that we've hired, their skills, their abilities, their approach to life, their attitude, their personality matter far, far more to us than their academic credentials. And actually, I can look at my own story. You know, for those of you that aren't aware, I completely flunked my A-levels. If you're listening outside of the UK, these are the exams that you take between the ages of like 16 and 18. And for those three subjects, after two years of effort, I got an E, which is the lowest pass you can get.

42:41An N, which stands for nearly an E. And a U, which stands for ungraded. And I don't blame my parents for this because they believed strongly in academia. year but they said if I was going to amount to anything then I had to get exam results you know the belief was without good exam results I wasn't able to get a job and I think you know my parents grew up in a period where getting a job for life was the most important thing but the truth is that since I failed those A-levels I've not been asked once in any job what did I get for my A-levels and what changed it for me was that just a couple of days after I'd failed and I was feeling really down a friend came to visit my mum and dad and she gave me a book called Feel the Fear and do it anyway.

43:23And it basically taught me to look beyond myself, really, to look beyond those exam results, to realise that I was far more than something written down on a piece of paper. And I took that ethos into going and meeting people. And I went and met a local TV channel. And I actually said to them, look, I know I've failed my A-levels, but I don't think it matters because I can offer you far more than someone who's just done well at their exams. And their eyes lit up. And it was the first time I realised that people in the workplace, they want to hear these messages. And my advice there is, even if you're not doing the job that you think you're going to do for life, lean into the elements of that job that you love.

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46:51Learn more at capella.edu. Right, let's get back to it now. Alex Albon, the Williams Formula One driver on high performance.

47:05I think that conversation with Alex Albon is the most fascinating insight into the true challenges of being a Formula One driver. And Damien and myself both applaud him for talking to us with such honesty and openness. I think when you're competing at the very top level of sport, all too often you're worried about talking like that because of, I don't know, maybe like it shows a weakness or a vulnerability that people are often afraid to share. But I think actually it's a superpower. The truth is that Alex Albon has found another superpower by going through those challenging times. And that is why it gives me great pleasure to say that we're sitting down with Alex once again, new location, London this time.

47:43Before we go into where you're at now and what your future looks like, that first conversation was probably, what, 48 hours after the Qatar Grand Prix, which has been described as the hardest Grand Prix in many years physically on the drivers. I suppose really the way you felt that day, and you can probably explain it better to us than I can, is a really good indicator, though, into the demands on your life, on your physical abilities, on your mental abilities. That was a tough week for you when we last spoke. It is. I would say most probably Formula 1, it doesn't come across in watching it on TV most probably how physical it can get sometimes.

48:19And we see now a couple of weeks later, man, you look refreshed, you look about. As much as I can do. I'm still, I've just got back from Brazil. So we've been in the simulator the last two days. But unlike last time, I've had a night's sleep. not directly from the simulator to the podcast room. So I feel better, yes. So if I said to you, like, where are you now? What would your answer be? I would say I'm happier than I've ever been. I feel like I'm driving the best I've driven, but also in the best mental headspace. I think them two together, they go hand in hand, obviously. What's your definition of happiness, Emma?

48:59I think it's being in control of everything going around you. I feel when I compare myself to where I was four or five years ago, I feel confident in myself. I'm able to focus on the right things, the things that matter to me. I'm able to take care and provide for the people around me as well. And at the same time, honestly, it sounds almost selfish in some ways, but I'm performing well. And it's a tricky one to say, but we are so dependent as much as we try not to be a lot of our happiness comes from from our performance yeah and it's quite hard to get away from that but that's the reality that you know obviously when things are going well on track and i feel like i'm in a good place i'm driving well there is inevitably this buzz and this confidence around what's going on in my life right now so we've spoken to a number of guests that have learned not to tie their happiness to the outcome but to the performance and the process.

49:58So Brazil... That is truly it. And with my trainer as well, that's what we focus on as much as we can is how can you create a platform that helps you operate at your best and delivers that outcome. But to do that took a lot of time actually. I feel like what I learned over the last four or five years was what created where I am now. And you can't really understand what that is until you go through all these hard times. So would you do me a favor and just break down either like a week or a day or a weekend, just to explain to us the kinds of decisions you're making, the kinds of people you've got around you, and what that does for you?

50:39Because I think as great as it is to hear it from you, it's actually really valuable for people in any walk of life. Of course. So I'll take you into a week of, I mean, of course, these weeks are decided weeks before the actual weekend of a race, but most of it starts from the Sunday before. so for example my simulator days are already will always be on a mandra Tuesday I like it that way because you still have a good memory for the weekend itself it's not too far behind that you're almost when you're at the track you're still trying to remember what you did at simulator I also do it that way because it gives me enough time in between to to still train before a Friday before we start our weekends but also take my mind away from just a full week of driving and driving and driving in them two sim days i've basically eliminated as much as possible any interference that's not driving related so for example when you go to a team simulator day there will be requests for your presence in other things signing items or things afterwards marketing things in between on your lunch break or afterwards all them kind of things are really important to make sure they're eliminated and that's the kind of thing of being much more the not the bad guy but putting yourself as priority for all these kind of things the driving to the sim and everything that's obviously all taken care of i don't want to waste energy doing stay i stay in hotels right by the sim right by the factory just to make sure that i'm i'm more fresh and more prepared each day they matter to me the wednesdays and thursdays they tend to be travel days so how long will you spend in the sim we start at nine um so i'm there for 8 30 and that's a lot of it's just down to we'll have a chat beforehand do meetings what do we want to improve from last last race are there any things that we feel like we need to try for next year as well is whatever it may be we'll all have goals and areas that we feel like we need to think about for the weekend which we'll do in simulator beforehand and it will finish around 6 p.m., 7 p.m., depending.

52:47So it's a full day. We don't actually get out the car only for lunch is when we get out the car. So at least I do, so that we're just in the zone basically. And then after that, it's Wednesday, Thursday, mostly travel. That's all being taken care of. And at the same time, whilst this is happening, my structure for the weekend, so the Thursdays are media days, which as I'm sure you know, they can be quite intense. What have you learned to do to protect yourself on that day where that's kind of the least in control day of your week, I would imagine? It is, but you still can control it and that's really important.

53:19So who are these people that are interviewing me? Is it a waste of time? Are they actually important and is there a meaning behind it? And when we spoke to you last time, Alex, you'd spoken around the relationship that you'd gone and recruited and developed with a psychologist. Yes. To help you with the mental preparation as well. So what you've described so far is a lot of the physical demands that are placed on you. Yes. Where do you make the time during this week to start getting yourself in the right headspace? To be fair, again, it's more routine, more than anything. I don't feel like I do so, nothing crazy different to what I did a few years ago.

53:55The one thing which stands out to me is giving myself me time. Like I said, Thursdays, Fridays, Thursdays, Sundays, we're in demand. I think if anyone has the chance to spend time with us over them four days, in our hospitality, you'll be surprised how little time we actually get to ourselves. If we're not driving, we're in meetings. And if we're not in meetings, we're doing duties of something else. So I block out time. I actually give my team an hour to an hour and a half every day. And always at least 45 minutes before I drive, there's nothing they can touch in my schedule. So that's a time where I'm a data-driven person, so that gives me time to look on onboard, to look at data.

54:37I like to do imagery, so I go through laps in my head, visualize the laps that I want to be doing before I drive them. And that just gets me in my zone, so stuff like that. What have you learned about not allowing those intrusive thoughts in? Because you explained to us before, like a rebel you overdrove to try and solve the problems. we're talking after you've not even made the first corner of the previous race that you drove in. Yes. So how are you able to insulate yourself from that thought going, oh, I hope that doesn't happen again, or, oh, you struggled here last year. Yeah, that's true.

55:10I see it as a challenge. So I create a challenge upon myself. So I'll give you a good example. In Brazil, just last week, we were nowhere. My qualifying lap, my first qualifying lap wasn't good. And my teammate was actually quicker than me. I see it weirdly as a challenge and I go instead of being negative about it oh no you know this might be the first time where or one of the few times where I don't make it into Q2 let's put it all and show myself everything I've done how much better of a person I am how much better of a driver I am and I knew exactly going into that next lap with a new set of tyres I just have inner confidence I just know that I'm so self-aware that thinking negatively is bad for me, that I will make sure that I'm positive going into the next run.

56:05So for me, it was like, okay, I've almost got this. I know I can overcome this. And I did a really good lap. And I think for us, it was like P9 or P10 in qualifying for that qualifying lap. I like it. I see it as a challenge. But there's your evidence as well. The fact that lap was good is your evidence that this stuff isn't just random words. It works. You know, my girlfriend is a golfer. I think golf is actually one of the worst sports for this because there's too much time to think. The ball doesn't move. You walk to the ball. You've done a bad shot and you can create a whole negative mindset the whole time you're walking to your next shot.

56:39Our brains work quickly and it works in racing too. So if we have a bad run, we can quickly go into a negative spiral whilst we're driving. I think because I was more towards the negative side when I was a driver four or five years ago, I am totally against being negative now. So as soon as I feel negative, it's such an easy switch for me. And I think I hope other people might feel the same. It's so obvious that being negative is not good. It has no meaning. It has no help. It's not going to make you drive any better. It's only going to make things worse. so why think negative? It sounds so simple but just because I'm so performance driven just to know that being negative is slower it's easy for me to think positive and the switch is not that difficult.

57:28And you're describing a process that sounds remarkably similar to an interview we did with a world championship boxer called Josh Warrington where he spoke about the loneliness of the dressing room before you go out to fight where those automatic negative thoughts start to try and worm their way into your head. And one of the ideas he spoke about, Alex, was that he goes to the trouble of writing down all the hurdles that he's passed over. So if he feels that that's happening, he's got something written just to remind him. And I'm interested, do you capture anything that helps you be able to go back and reconnect with all the obstacles you've managed?

58:07For example, just as simple as that Q, that qualifying lap that I did there, that's justification in itself. It's just easy. It's proof in the pudding. As the years have gone by, especially these last two years, I come up with scenarios in my head or think about scenarios in my head that I've experienced in the last four or five years, four or five years ago. And inevitably, because it's racing, these last two years, I've experienced a similar position that I've been in to them four or five years ago. and as soon as I have this almost it's almost a deja vu but it's a real deja vu I use it as an opportunity to show to myself that I've overcome that hurdle and so I would say within 95 99 % of times I have and that's just a confidence fulfilling exercise that I've now just gone I'm in this position like I was then let's turn that and show that I can I am a better person than I was back then.

59:07So how do you embed that in your memory then? Do you write it down? It's stuck. I don't need to write it down, it's stuck. It's almost like I'm challenging myself. I'm challenging myself from four or five years ago. And what about you're on the grid, lights out, it's just moments away. What's the work you're doing at that point? Is that totally process-driven at that point or is there still emotion moving around? It's still process-driven in some ways. So another thing which I've done to improve my starts especially, just purely if I'm talking about starts and my procedure to start. We have basically built up a rig.

59:42We call it a start rig. We do about 300, 400 starts before we actually do the start itself. It's basically, it's almost a seat with the pedals. Everything's in the exact position that it is in the real car. At the track. It's actually normally in a driver's room, either mine or Logan's. And we'll just go through these starts. And there's a target. We have to be within one millimeter on our clutch drops our clutches are on our hands not on our feet unlike a road car and it's very difficult to be precise and it's the the way that you drop the clutch that creates the wheel spin or not and you're trying to be as on the limit as you can so routine it's there's still a process to what we do i i actually used to be more prepared so as i have gotten older i've realized i don't want to i don't want to write everything down i used to write everything down in notebook what pit stops am i doing are there any moments in the race is there a corner that i want to tire save a little bit more or is there something that i learned in the race run i've got rid of that weirdly and for me it's just because i'm more confident in myself i don't need the validation or or the this i don't need as much structure because i've learned to trust yourself exactly i've learned to trust myself there's still things that i remember before the race it's good to know what pit stop you you've got to pit at but still and more confident, I think, the more routine that you do.

1:01:01You're just, you're better prepared in a different way. So what's the best bit of feedback that a member of your team has given you that's maybe given you pause for thought and then forced a change of direction? I would say, to be fair to you, this person isn't in my team. So I'm going off in a bit of a tangent. But the best piece of advice I got given, which was at the start of my Formula 1 career, was by a team boss called Francis Tost, who at the time the team was called Toro Rosso. And he was, he's an elder man, but he's gone through it. He's been at it from the ground up. One of them get your hands dirty kind of guys.

1:01:36He told me the first time I met him was, he's German, so you could imagine it was Alex. Before, I'm not going to do the accent actually. I decided mid-quote. Alex, you only got as far as Alex. He was talking to me about Formula One. I was a rookie, obviously. and he said Alex if there's one thing you need to learn about Formula One is don't give a fuck it doesn't sound that deep but it's so true and I didn't really understand it until I went through the tough times and that's when that's where we talk about this kind of putting yourself first and being selfish that's when it really started to for me to understand what he meant because at the time it was I don't really give a fuck but actually I do and I think I cared too much at the beginning.

1:02:26And it's strange for a team boss to say that because at the end of the day, he wants you to care about the team. He wants you to care about the image of the team. But he wasn't like that. He said, you put yourself first and then that's it. Talk to us as well about the environment at Williams. Because I think as much as all of those tough times, you know, personally and professionally have equipped you for being where you are. If you're driving in a toxic environment, it's actually very easy for those demons to resurface? It is and that is part of it. Truthfully I'm in a good part of my career I'm performing well, everything feels easy and I know it feels easy a lot because of the results and the performance in the car are backing that.

1:03:13Needless to say it happens a lot in Formula 1. I think a good example would be Daniel Ricciardo when he was doing so well in his career and then he had struggled, had that dip in McLaren but you see him now he's back up to to that form can you relate to what he's been through totally and I think actually I saw it so much and we we did talk about it this feeling like it's easy when things are going well but once things go badly it's it can come from nowhere and part of me realizes you know next year for some reason it could go that way I'm pretty sure it won't but it could go that way and so you've got to be prepared for it in some ways and like you said them demons can come back but i think you're creating an environment and a structure in your in your processes that the chances of it happening are much lower but also if it does happen the security and and the again i've gone through it i know what it's like i'm best prepared for it now were you able to i'm not trying to betray any confidence this here but were you able to offer him to daniel some some advice because you're kind of yeah a couple of years further down the line aren't you in terms of these experiences i tried to i didn't want to get too involved so and i didn't know daniel that one when we did talk about it so i know him better now but um i just explained to him what i went through yeah and i said i wonder if it'd be interesting to know if you've gone through if you're going through the same thing in terms of advice it was more that the brake is going to help and i felt that which he didn't do but i didn't and this helped me reset a little bit but you know he only had six months out whereas i had a year i drove a different car I drove into DTM which is basically it's like a modified Ferrari a GT3 car and when I took that year away I got to a point where I was driving something that was so alien to me but by the time I ended my Red Bull stint because I didn't have the confidence I was driving too tense I was afraid of every little slide or snap I was over correcting or you could feel it in my hands.

1:05:12I could tell I was just too tense driving the car. I wasn't trusting it. I wasn't confident enough in that car. And when I went to that GT3 car, the cars are about 30 seconds a lap slower. They're terribly slow. But I was on the limit of a car. And I lost that tenseness. I felt, you know, I was sliding that thing around and it helped me reset a little bit. And so when I got back into the F1 car, which was a Williams this time, I lost a lot of the tenseness. I was back to feeling comfortable again with the car sliding around. I actually think that benefited me. That was a nice reset. I'm not sure what Daniel did in his six months, but I did say, listen, this has helped me.

1:05:50Can I ask you an intensely personal question so you don't have to answer it, but I'm interested in how important faith is to you because some of what you've described is what I understand maybe the Buddhist faith teaches about being able to let things go. and I'm interested if that's been a feature of your life. So I am Buddhist. My mum is most probably a lot more, she practices Buddhism much more than I do. There are elements which I feel exactly that, where I've definitely used and I don't know if anyone's spent time, I've had the privilege to be able to ask questions to monks who have such amazing way of words and being able to tell how to deal with certain situations.

1:06:35So things like that have been very beneficial. And on the other side, I don't know if you have, for example, my mom, she's extremely superstitious. And she's created a lot of superstition around her life. And naturally, I became superstitious as well. As time has gone on, I've basically been using much more of the kind of Buddhism language and being able to use words and be able to reset. And again, as you said, let things go and relax much better. but at the same time get rid of superstition because I really was almost, some of them negative thoughts going in, a lot of it can be down to superstition.

1:07:13You know, in the same ways that even if you do the things that are not bad luck, it doesn't mean they're good luck. It just means they're not bad luck. So that's just, that's a doubt. You're creating a doubt for no reason, basically. And so I started to immediately do things which I thought was unlucky to prove to myself that they weren't unlucky. And that was just a way to get rid of all that kind of stuff and start afresh. If you weren't telling us about some of those conversations with the monks, like what's one of the pieces of wisdom you'd remember? Most of it is down to life lessons, but life lessons that can apply to racing.

1:07:48I just remember, to be honest, it's more of a memory than anything else. I remember my family in Thailand, they're all Buddhist. And there was a temple, it's about three hours drive from Bangkok where they all live. I arrived to this place it was a sanctuary and basically told him what I'm telling you the negative parts of it the the moments around my Red Bull career the feelings I had about negativity and he would always have an answer for me in a completely different context but it would be things oh gosh it's really hard for him to remember but he would he would use modern day learnings or he'd use old stories to always say you're basically going through this example or this example a lot of them were older stories about you know there's there was once a traveler who did this and so and you're basically you got to be this kind of person and yeah i wish i wish i could give you the exact example but i just remember feeling this this this release of tension even in that moment you know okay that makes so much more sense why am I so worried?

1:08:57Why am I going towards this, you should call it that chimpanzee brain, jumping to that negative so quickly? I kind of remember coming back from that, feeling much more reset. So here's the real test then, right, of how far you've come on this journey. Sure. Your phone goes this afternoon and it's Christian Horner saying, Alex, come back to Red Bull, right? Yeah. Is the immediate thought, the chimp brain going, what, I can't go back there? My memories are so bad of that time in my life. Look how badly I drove. Look how much I struggled. Look what happened. What do you go? I back myself to go anywhere now.

1:09:32I definitely back myself to go anywhere. I'm in a great position now at Williams. I'm very happy with where I am. I'm happy to see the progress of the team. But inevitably, the progress of the team is dependent on realistically what James Vowles is doing and also myself, my own inputs. But there's a time frame. I feel like right now I'm driving at the best possible period of my life and I know there's still more to come but at the same time I want to be I'm in a period where I feel like I want to win races I want to be on podiums and if that call came through it's a possibility and I don't in some ways for example I'm so confident in where I am right now compared to where I was back then that I know I could join any team and I know I would do a good job but I have no doubt in that So yes, I do think I'm ready for the challenge.

1:10:22But let's see what's out there. Really interesting. And look, thank you so much for being so honest with us. My final question before we move on to the quick fast to wrap this up is this idea of dreaming, whether you allow yourself to do this. Obviously, you'd love to be the world champion. Do you allow your brain to go there? And is it important for you to try and make some decisions at some point to make that a reality? Because let's be honest, William's amazing team, perfect, almost. it's hard to explain this. It's almost like the perfect team for what you've been through. Yes. To rebuild you.

1:10:54Yes. And, you know, they deserve so much credit for the culture they've built and the work they've done with you. But there is also an argument here that the years run out pretty quick for a Formula One driver. Like, you can't hang around if you want to be a world champion. Yes. So how do you balance your loyalty to Williams, your love and respect for what they've done with needing to basically get the shot at the world title that I'm sure you feel you deserve? it's more short term I think than most people think because it's so results-based you have to focus in the present all the time as much as you can at least for me I find that thinking about the past or the future too far ahead is the past is is good for the learnings the future is as you said it's a little bit dreaming and it's not realistically going to help you to dream too far ahead.

1:11:44That's more about structure and I leave that to my manager to worry about. But for me it's about being in the spotlight and focusing on what I can do. And I still am very strong in the way that anything I do now, it's only going to better my chances into the future. And if I can do these results and prove people, prove to these top teams, if it's not Williams, these top teams, the level that I'm at, that's all done in the now. And the structure and the teams, if you do the job now, they're going to come knocking. And that's why people say, you know, about Williams and where do you see yourself with Williams and into next year and the years after.

1:12:26The best job I can do is to do the best job I can do at Williams and to bring this team up to as high of a position as I can get them to. With my development and my feedback, these teams, they want the same thing. You know, them qualities. So it doesn't hinder how you go about it. Because at the end of the day, if you are that person, you can go wherever you want. Did you grow up dreaming of a certain team? There's always dreams, of course. If you just go on my Instagram, you'll see which team it was. I was a massive Ferrari fanboy. You know, Michael, when I was growing up, just anything. My mom would, if I didn't eat my vegetables, it wasn't anything other than, well, Michael eats his vegetables.

1:13:09there I am just munching away straight away and it was the same thing for example with with anything if I had to do my homework Michael does his homework there I am writing away so it was ingrained in me that I always wanted to be like Michael be like Mike be like Mike he's a different Mike I love the fact that as a kid you you were able to dream and after all the sort of difficult things that Formula One threw your way in the early years it's nice you can dream again thank you ready for some quick fire questions tell me yes okay quick fire questions your three non-negotiables you and the people around you need to buy into?

1:13:43They have to be competitive. I'd say they also have to be passionate. But I feel like passion and competition is the same thing. And for me, they have to be self-critical. If you could go back to one moment of your life, what would it be and why? How we talked about, I want to go back to 2019, 2020. I want to see what happens. If I was the person I am now, then I wouldn't want to go any further back than that. because I feel like I've been on a journey and that's what's made me. But let's choose then. What do you think this new Alex would do in that car then? I honestly don't think the driving would change too much, but it's just, it's truly the mental approach and the experience.

1:14:24I think I would be much more of a leader, much more confident in myself, make decisions without doubting them. Next question, your biggest strength, your greatest weakness? Yes. My biggest strength, I would say, is that I'm self-aware. I stand by that. I think that I'm pretty honest on myself and I don't use it, for example, to open up is a reflection of me being totally aware of who I am. The negative is also the same thing. I find that I'm still working on that and i don't know about you guys but i i sometimes find being so unaware in some athletes you can sense that they just there is no switch there is no no self knowledge of i think michael jordan kind of at least to me looked like that where he just it was there was he was the best and that's it there was no doubt in it maybe there was and he hit it i'm i'm intrigued by that mindset and I look at that mindset and I think wow you can't just be that kind of mindset that has a different different kind.

1:15:35So what advice would you give to a teenage Alex just starting out on his journey? I never truly had the confidence that I that I'm at now and I still feel like there's more you know I'm still not the most totally confident person there is but I'm on I'm in that journey and you could imagine me as a kid I was the opposite side I was quite low down. I think a lot of that comes from what, you know, me being introverted and all that kind of thing. It's really hard to give him advice because I know he didn't listen. You know, my dad and my mom and my dad would always feed me with a lot of confidence and always tell me, you know, you don't know how good you are and all this kind of stuff.

1:16:12But I never really took it to heart. And I think I'd shake him. I'm like, no, it's true. So that, yeah. nice and look the final question having followed this roller coaster ride that your career has been thank you so much for sharing so much with us what sitting here today is your one golden rule that you'd love to share with people about living a high performance life my golden rule i personally think it's the it's the appetite and the hunger to constantly figure out purely what helps you perform at your best i think a lot of what i've done is i'm still in that phase and i i love trying to unlock and figure out what gets me to perform better is it the structure is it my mentality and that's not really a true answer but it's it's that discovery phase i find if you can if you're always wanting to learn more about yourself and figure out how what makes you tick you should be on a good path i hope brilliant look mate thank you so much for taking the time to chat to us on two separate occasions.

1:17:20And there'll be a lot of people listening to this that might be at a place in their life where they are where you were at Red Bull and things are not in flow and they're struggling and it's difficult. And to hear you talk like this and to remind people that things pass and that life changes and nothing's fixed, I think it's a powerful thing to share and it's rare from an athlete at the top of their game. So thank you. No problem. Thank you, guys. Thank you.

1:17:43Damien. Jay. I actually really like the fact that, you know, Alex reached out to us after that first conversation at Williams and just said, I told you about the tough times and it's really important to have that conversation. But I'd now like to finish my story by telling you where I am today. And I, I think if we just spoke about the hard times with him without referencing the things we've just spoken about, it wouldn't be the truth. Like it wouldn't be the, it wouldn't be the helpful stuff that we can offer people. Cause it's important to know that people like Alex go through really hard times, but look where they are now.

1:18:13So if someone's in a tough moment now, he's a he's a great role model of where you can eventually get to i think this podcast or the two podcasts if you like jake are almost emblematic of exactly what alex has told us he does so he's gone away he's reflected and he's gone how can we do this better how can we come back and just actually take the positives from it as well so i think it's a great example of somebody actually role modeling the mentality and the processes that he goes through in his day job in Formula One. Also, where he is today, you know, talking about the way he sets himself up for a race weekend with that 45 minutes before the race starts and making sure that he doesn't allow any negative thoughts in and even the energy he gets from wishing that he could have that Red Bull time back, knowing what he knows now.

1:19:02I think the truth is that the only way for him to be in this place is to have been in that place. and there's no way that he could know all these things and yes you get people like max for step who rolls into formula lewis hamilton another example they roll in and they just fly from minute one he almost had to go through those dark times to be in the places that now and and that's kind of the best thing that's ever happened to him perhaps yeah if we're willing to go to those uncomfortable moments reflect on them we will find learnings stuff that we can take away and apply in our day-to-day life when things are hopefully a little bit more stable or successful.

1:19:42So I think what Alex has offered us is a fantastic blueprint for how we live our lives. Take those tough moments, learn from them, reflect on them, and take the valuable stuff and apply it. Great. And another reminder that just because someone's an elite athlete or a top sports person or a business leader, it doesn't necessarily mean they have the tools to deal with the setbacks and the struggles you know he flew through a junior career and it was only going through the setbacks that gave him the the tools if you like to deal with those and it's a reminder that we will all face difficult times but you know lessons from the likes of Alex Albon about where he is now is invaluable stuff which again you know if people are listening to this and going I want to learn more around it go and listen to Bear Grylls talk about how the kid who never gets picked for the football team is learning life skills that are going to allow him to be successful going on listen to emily mate let's talk about golden time before big interviews to just pause and collect her thoughts you know we're hearing so many examples from other guests around methodologies regardless of their industry that any of us can apply in our own lives great i loved it mate thank you pal me too thank you so there you have it alex albon recorded um across two different days and wasn't it an interesting chat as always huge thanks to you for listening to these podcasts all i'd ask is that you do one thing you send this to someone who you think could learn from realizing that the setbacks and the difficult and dark moments in our life can lead us to the greatest moments and can i just put on record a personal thanks to the team at williams to alex's personal team and to alex himself for opening up in this really important way i think he's going to go on to do incredible things in his Formula One career.

1:21:31And I'll tell you what, I'm sure you agree with me when you've heard him talk in the way he has. You just want the very best for him. Thanks for listening and we'll see you soon.

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