Alex Greenwood Exclusive: What It Took to Win the Euros - The Story Behind England’s Winning Culture (E364)

0:28Watch it early on the High Performance app. been smooth or perfect or we haven't played particularly fantastic all the time but we know mentally that we can go to a place to find a way to win that is the voice of england lionesses hero alex greenwood a lady who is now a double european champion and without question one of the most composed leaders in football today of course she recently played the full match including taking a penalty and the penalty shootout as england won euro 2025 look damien i wasn't available for this record, this conversation. But I'm so pleased that we got the chance to invite Alex onto the show.

1:05How did you find it? It was an absolute delight, Jake. Alex was humble, but incredibly insightful. I mean, we start the episode at the pivotal moment when the pressure couldn't be higher. She describes what it was like to take a penalty in the Euro final. Now, especially after missing one earlier in the tournament, the courage to step up and take it again. Alex takes us directly inside her mind to explain exactly what was going on in her head. But listen, we also spoke about how body image struggles nearly derailed her confidence. She tells some brilliant stories about Serena Wiegmann and the impact she has in the dressing room.

1:40Listen out, Jake, for a story about a wash bag. And then finally, she talks really movingly about moving to Lyon, why it was the most crucial moment of her whole life. Honestly, this is a really raw and revealing look into the career of one of women's football's finest. And look, Damien, before we get going, you know, there was some very high profile withdrawals from the England squad ahead of the tournament. Was there anything said about that? Yeah, Alex spoke really quite movingly about Millie Bright, Frank Kirby, and especially around her relationship with Mary Erbs. But just as interestingly, she spoke about a conversation that she had with Serena about her own selection and whether she would go.

2:19Listen out for that. It's fascinating. Wow. Love it. Should we do it then? Definitely. Let's welcome Alex Greenwood to High Performance.

2:32Well, Alex, welcome to High Performance. Thank you. Thanks for having me. It's a pleasure to be here. Let's go back to 8.31 on the 27th of July, right? We're in the final of the 2025 European Championships. There's tens of thousands of people in the stadium. There's millions of us watching at home. And you're just about to take what Gary Lineker once described as the loneliest walk in football as you go from the centre circle to take the penalty. Tell us what's going on in your mind. I was quite relaxed, actually. I think the Sweden game before that, I'd taken a penalty and I missed. And I watched it back, the penalty, not the game, the penalty itself.

3:10And everything about the penalty wasn't me. The walk, the way I left the line, the way I put the ball down, all the processes was everything I hadn't practised, which was so unusual. because I'd like to think I'm quite a composed player in them moments. So when I watched it back, I thought, well, if I'm in that situation again, how will it look? And I practiced a couple of times in training that week and honestly, not every penalty went perfect. I probably missed more than I scored, being really honest. But I was something about it. I was really confident. The process felt really good. I felt confident I had watched the keeper, not in that tournament previously, how she dives where she goes went through the process of take a breath take your time I know the keeper likes to stand by the side of the goal and put you off a little bit put the ball down and I think the previous penalty I went across my body I think as a left footer you naturally do that and in that week I'd practiced opening up a little bit more and putting it that way which the keepers would feed back and say that's really difficult we actually have no idea which way you're going to go and I was walking up to the penalty and I thought I'm going my way like I backed myself to score the way I feel comfortable to score whether she goes the right way or not again the penalty didn't go exactly where I wanted it to but yeah thankfully this one went in So how far out did you decide what you were going to do and how you were going to take it?

4:34In the line once I knew what penalty I was taking we come together as a team you get told where you're going you get asked are you comfortable with that yeah okay who's next and next and then when I knew I was second I had originally in the day I thought about all scenarios what could happen in the game during the day when you've got so much time to think if it goes to penalties, I'm going to go open up and go keep his right, my left. And in the line, I said, I'm going my way. I'm sticking to what I know. And if I get it right, I don't think any keeper will save it anyway. I'm really interested in this idea of you watching that previous video because a lot of people would shy away from going back to something like that of watching a failure previously.

5:16Did you do that with anyone? No, I've done it on my own. I do. Quite an analytical person. I enjoy watching the game back. I do because I like to process things. You get a feeling after a game of an emotion, whether you've won, you've lost, you've drew, whatever. And sometimes you can come away and go, we played great today. And you watch the game back and it doesn't necessarily reflect what you thought and vice versa. So I tend to do that quite a lot anyway. But I didn't, like I said, I didn't actually watch the game back. I watched just my penalty. just to see if the feelings I had after the penalty was what it felt like and it married up completely.

5:54The process I'd usually go through or what I'd prepared to do was totally way off, what I'd planned to do. So if anyone was to go back and watch it then, what would they see you doing differently? I'd take my time putting the ball down. I'd probably stare at it, give the keeper an eye or I'd stare at it a little bit. I'd take a breath, take a moment and I think people think as soon as the referee blows the whistle you've got to take the pen but there's no time limit on that. I can take as long as I want. It's my penalty. There's no full-time whistle. It's when you're ready and usually I'd take a breath.

6:29Okay, I'm ready and I'd step up whereas I left the line as soon as it was my turn. I marched straight to the spot to pick the ball up. The ball was on the spot before the keeper had even taken a look at a bottle of where I was potentially going to put it. and all them little small details added up. I'm not saying that's why I missed, but I think it had a massive, massive effect on why it didn't go in the back of the net. So, I mean, you've described a series of sort of like mental checklists that you were doing. Which one is the most essential? I think it's when I put the ball down and I take a step back and then the referee blows the whistle.

7:03I take my breath. She's staring at me and it's me against you. I think that for me personally, for other people it's the walk, For other people, it's how they place the ball. That's super important for some players. But for me, it's after that the whistle goes. So after you've gone back and looked at that miss against Sweden, what do you do with that information after that? Probably ask myself why it looked like that. I probably didn't really have the answer. I tried to put things to it. I was tired. The game had been a really high-intensity game, but the reality is I think I just got the process really wrong.

7:38And I accepted that quite quickly. I think it's always easier to accept it when you win yeah of course everything's easier when you win if we'd have lost that game I'd probably still be thinking about it now but because we won I could watch it and accept it a little bit easier and say okay well if that was to happen again this is what it's going to look like so let's go back to the successful penalty then you've taken it you've scored yeah what happens when you go back to the line after that find your spot in your line who you want to be next to who's nervous who's a talker in the line who says not on everyone's completely different when in the line some people have no idea what's going on next what happens if we win miss what happens if we score sometimes I'm one of them some people say not on some people celebrate when we score some people don't just find your place tend to go at the end or back where you was depending on who's going next and then hope you keep her does pulls out a save So what are you like in the line?

8:36Usually like really like Relaxed, not relaxed as in I'm not fazed by it, but I just think until it's time to actually celebrate the win, I'm just going to celebrate it, yeah. Just clench my fists and maybe when the final penalty goes in, then I'm off, I'm just going to celebrate. That's when you do it. That's when I go for it, yeah.

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10:45And how does the decision get made then that you're taking the second penalty? Before the tournament, you get sent a form. Do you want to take a penalty during the tournament? Yeah, no. If you do, what order or which penalty do you prefer? and you can say one, like you can two, three, four, five, or you can say them all. I could say I prefer two, three and four or one, two and three or five. That's the only one I prefer or none at all. So then obviously they go over that. They'll do their homework, the staff, sorry, the staff will do their homework. We then practice penalties in training as realistic as possible.

11:22They also know players who are more comfortable than not to take penalties. They have stats on penalties and how many players are scored in training. It doesn't necessarily always define who takes one. It depends who's on the pitch. Some players might score everyone in training, get to the game and go, no, it's not for me and that's also fine. Some players you wouldn't expect to step up and take one. So they come to you and say, for example, Alex, you're two, Beffrey, et cetera, et cetera. And you say, yeah, or you say, no, I want to go four. But more often than that, everyone agrees to what they've said So when you were filling in your form what were your answers?

12:04I mean most definitely I'll take one I actually don't think I'll put number two I think I'll put three, four and five just because I've probably never taken a second penalty before naturally I just put three, four and five I suppose a pressure penalty in more cases often is later down the line and I think because I do back myself to score a penalty I've you kind of think, well, I'll take that pressure on. Yep. Maybe I'm more of a senior player. I've taken a lot of penalties. I've been at these tournaments before. So I didn't maybe think like that, but I suppose somewhere deep down, I thought that's probably the right thing to do.

12:42Right. And does Serena come and speak to you? Does she give you any words? Before we went to take them in the huddle, yeah, she speaks. She says, go through your processes, stay calm, back yourself to go the way you want to go. But she's super calm. She has emotion to it, but she's so diligent with her words and so motivational. And she knows that we're prepared anyway, so she doesn't really have to say a lot. What I often wonder when I'm watching the game is, when does your mind start turning towards the penalties? Against Sweden, I think maybe a bit sooner. I probably had an idea it was going to penalties, the way the game was going, the flow of the game, the tempo.

13:23I mean we were putting quite a lot of pressure on Sweden late on slightly different against Spain because you're concentrating that much Spain is so good on the ball and I think they put quite a lot of pressure on us the last five, ten minutes of the game and I was so focused on my job and I don't think I looked up at the clock once which sometimes you would take a little look up how long, okay two minutes next year, left year two minutes stay in it if you're under pressure a little bit or vice versa if it's the other way come on we can get another goal here so a Spain game the only time I thought about it was when the whistle went Sweden game slightly before Right and do you think that does affect how you're playing in the moment of the game?

14:06I don't necessarily think so if I can only relate it back to that tournament not necessarily because I don't think we ever played to get to penalties even in the Spain game I don't think even though we were under quite a lot of pressure I don't think at any point players could disagree with me but you go play for penalties although in that situation the best case scenario probably was to go to penalties because of the pressure we were under but against Sweden our initiative was against them and we were we were on the front I feel if that game would have gone on just a little bit longer we probably could have got another goal but we like the drama and the drama then culminated in that second victory would you describe what it was like when Chloe scored that winning goal it's a feeling I wish I could describe because it's incredible.

14:58I think the first emotion is really, like, have we really just done that again? Of course, you run, you celebrate with your team and then I almost like sat back a minute at a moment and was like, I looked up to the left where the family always was. I actually remember walking saying to Jack, really, have you really, really just done that? it doesn't sink in I don't know if it has still it takes a while to process but it's just pure elation and overwhelming slightly to be honest When you all get together at St George's Park at what point did you look around the dressing room and think we've got something special here Well when we meet at first you go as a a bigger group so the team's actually decided for the Euros immediately she takes a bigger team and then obviously you leave and you find out whether you go or you don't that's been kind of every manager does it differently How does Serena do it?

16:03She previously is a phone call or a FaceTime or the last two have been a FaceTime call and she'll she'll tell you my one this previous one was slightly different we had a conversation before she was making the phone calls about it the reason was because I think I'd been out for a long time with injury I was probably a little bit unsure of what my role was going to be this tournament and I needed to probably have an honest conversation with what that looked like and I think the reason that was was because I've been to so many tournaments and I've played and not played a lot and gone to 2022, for example, and didn't start a game.

16:52And I think my mindset this time was, am I prepared to do that again? Am I prepared to go through what I've been through in terms of injury? And it was a really, really hard journey to get back fit in time for the Euros to then go and be in the same position I was again in 2022. And listen, the team she selected in 2022 was the right one because we won and the way she spoke to me in that tournament about my role was as clear as day and did I like it? No I didn't I didn't like it at all I was I didn't want to be a player who made an impact from the bench as a defender but I knew my role and I was going to make sure I did it the best I possibly could because I knew we had a really good chance of winning and then so fast forward now I think the fact I hadn't played the Portugal game leading into the tournament I didn't start the game I had just come back from a long term injury but I think my my conversation was how does this look like am I part of the team from a from a starting point of view or or squad because I think basically what I'm trying to say to you is if it's if it's a squad situation I don't need experience another player might do and if that's that's what you want to do take somebody you need to.

18:16And did you initiate that conversation or did Serena? No, me. It was definitely me because the feeling of not playing I came on in the Portugal game and then I knew we were then we played Spain and I started that game and I actually played probably the most comfortable I felt on the pitch since being back from injury in terms of pain and moving the way I know my body to move because I still didn't feel quite that and I knew that and I knew but I knew he still had a bit of time for me to get back to that point I just was honest with her I just said I would do anything for England to win and for you I have so much respect for Serena more she's the best manager I've ever worked for without a doubt she is incredible and she's honest and she's to the point and we had a conversation she was obviously no guarantees you're going to stop and I understood that because I wouldn't expect that from a manager but that the message she gave me about how much she needed me in the squad was enough for me to say, I'm going to give you everything I've got this summer, whatever that looks like.

19:20See, what I find remarkable about that is that you have a relationship where you could go and have that conversation with her to say, if you want somebody more experienced just to be a squad player, maybe pick somebody else. How has that relationship been nurtured? I was growing there a little bit vulnerable because, like I said, I'd worked so hard to get back and I was basically opening the door as such for it to go, okay, no problem. Like, that's fine then. We will take someone else. But I know deep, deep down inside, if that answer would have come, I would have been so heartbroken. But I'd made peace with the fact that I couldn't go through 2022 again emotionally.

20:04I didn't have that to give again to the team. And that sounds so selfish because I'm not saying... I can't be a sub or I can't, I've done it enough to know what it's like to be a good teammate, to be there for your team. And that's not their decision. It's the manager's decision ultimately. I'm never going to take it out on the team. But I didn't know whether I emotionally, after what I'd just been through, had enough to give to the girls to sit on the bench again. Not saying at any point, but the whole tournament. I was being really honest with her and I said, I can't give you that. But the relationship comes from Serena being just a really good human being, which is what she is.

20:45And she cares really about you as a human, as well as a footballer. She is the ultimate winner. I've never met someone who'll go to the LEM. She'll go through to win. Go on, give us an example. I said to her before the tournament, this was when we had a small break. I said, are you going to have a break? Are you going to go away and switch off a little bit? she almost looked at me like I'd insulted her a little bit she was like go away I said yeah like you're gonna switch off a little bit you know your squad now like she was like absolutely not she said my work starts now like and I know what she'll have had the team together the staff and I you know of an evening when you walk back to your room they have a little office on the left in the corridor and I see them all in there Serena, staff, the work they put in for us to be successful is absolutely incredible.

21:44But then you made that lovely comment there about she cares about you as a person. How does that manifest itself? I think if I was to call Serena now, she'd pick up the phone. I think I could call her any time and she'd answer the phone to me. I could ring her about anything and say about life or about football. And I think she'd have a conversation with me. she might not always give me the answers or she might not be able to and she'd tell me that she's touching that way she's very honest you know but I think she always cares about the person before the player and I think by having that it gets so much more out of the players it's an incredible talent to have and a trait that she manages so well You speak around the squad from the outside looking in the strength of relationships not only with the players at the start, but the ones that are part of the wider squad as well as the staff as well.

22:43Seems to be incredibly strong. I'm interested in the role of Dr Kate Hayes in this and what she's done. If you could give us any insights into creating such a cohesive unit. Insight, yeah, she does it. I mean, she is very much someone who will take a back seat. She's very observant. she also will reach out when she thinks it's necessary too and she does um she's done a lot of um work with individuals um she's always been someone who's checked in with me and then she's done group sessions so like we could we could do like a sort of speed dating type of activity where we'd all be sitting in a circle and you'd sit in an outer circle and you'd be in front of someone and you'd maybe tell them something that you've never told them before and then they'd share it back and you've become a little bit vulnerable and then you'd move on and you'd do the same again or she might change the subject and say tell them about someone in your family or share a story or your purpose your reason what is your purpose and she'd make you feel uncomfortable and I think in a team that's that's important because you probably get to know each other on a on a different level to maybe what you're what you would on a training pitch because you don't also maybe understand why so-and-so reacts a certain way if you then understand their story.

24:07Can you give us an example then of where an exercise like that has reaped dividends out on the field? I would probably go back to Axi Dior in the tournament, I think after the France game. Of course, the expectation on us was to... The group we were in was so hard and then the game didn't go as planned and we probably didn't play to, oh no, we didn't play to anywhere near our level. This is that opening game where you got beat to the fans. Yeah. And I think that was almost like, okay, every game now is final. And we got in a room together, some technical staff and every player. We just addressed a couple of things and was just like, the intensity of training has to be better.

24:57A couple of players would challenge each other on standards and demands and how that looks and how that's taken and reciprocated and again become vulnerable with each other and demanded from each other and maybe a way that we've never had to in tournament before because we've always won our opening game you tend to think them sessions happen before you get there but to do one in a tournament is something that's quite new to me it was the best thing we could have done because we got so much out of it. So after that meeting, what did you notice different, say in the next training session when you're out there on the field?

25:37Probably more players felt comfortable. Come on, this has to be better. More voices. Which I like that. I don't expect every player to be loud. I'm not loud. I'm not the loudest captain or the loudest speaker. I would be lying if I'm shouting from the rooftops all the time. I have moments where, So, you know, I do do that. But the intensity of training just went from there to like here. And it was evident within the first session back. I think there's always a line of cross and what you demand from each other because there's days in tournament where you spent that long together. It might not be a demand, but you might be just having a really bad day and you take it the wrong way.

26:23And we built that culture to no matter how you're feeling that day, if you're at 50 % or 60 % or 100 % bring every bit of that that you've got and we'll respect you for you and we'll be grateful for that. Again, I'm interested as an outsider looking in Serena made that comment that this was a New England for this tournament. Yeah. How did you interpret that? A New England was players I think first of all that we had quite a lot of change within the group. A New England as in the target's now on our back and this is something we've probably never experienced before. This New England as such is going to mentally do what it takes to win, physically, tactically, do everything possible that we can to be successful.

27:11Using the word new is kind of as if we've just got rid of the old and come in with the new. That's probably not the case of the meaning of the New England. I think it was more in 2022, we had a great tournament and rode our luck at times, which you have to do in tournaments. And now how this England team looks is new because we've never experienced what we're about to experience. As in, there's a target on our back. We're European champions. Everyone's hunting England now. So that mentality of being the hunted rather than the hunter. Yeah. What did that do in terms of for your preparation or the mentality of the squad?

27:52Again, it's interesting because we had some players who weren't part of 22. To them, it was very new. New is the common word. Well, very fresh. So they didn't really go in with that feeling, which was probably a good thing because it makes everyone else almost be a bit more relaxed as well. I think the players who were in at the 2022 Euros, I think were experienced enough. and I played at such a high level for a long time that it wasn't a sense of fear or, okay, like, how do we deal with this pressure? Because playing for England is pressure anyway. And from 2022 till now, we've played with nothing but pressure because we've asked for it, for one.

28:48We've now put it on ourselves by being successful. and now what are we going to do with being under pressure? Because the road from 22 to now hasn't been smooth or perfect or we haven't played particularly fantastic all the time, but we know mentally that we can go to a place to find a way to win. It reminds me of when you sat down with Paul McGinley, the golfer who was the captain of the European Cup, the Ryder Cup team, who went and spoke to Alex Ferguson about how do you win back-to-back titles. And Ferguson's advice to him was you should always be the hunter and not the hunted. So for him at Manchester United, it was putting Liverpool on the pedestal.

29:27We need to beat their 19 league titles. So it doesn't matter that we've won it twice. We need to still chase Liverpool. Was there any kind of different messaging from Serena that England previously have only ever won one tournament? No, it's not ever something that she'd say. she's very much what are we going to do now she's very much in the present moment so she does never she'll never say Germany have won 4, 5, 6 she's like what are England going to do now and how are we going to win back to back and then I can only imagine after a couple of weeks Serena's going ok how do we England win it back to back to back the type of personality that she is.

30:19And again, I'm probably pretty sure she's already going, when do we sit down and plan what happens for the World Cup and what that looks like, rather than what's happened before. What do you think would surprise people most about her? I don't think she's actually got anything surprising to share. I think what you see in interviews is definitely what you get from Serena. But I also think there's so many layers to Serena as well and I obviously I've mentioned it that she's a caring person and she's actually really funny she comes out with some great stuff and every time I speak to her she asks me to repeat myself two, three times because she can't understand me and she is just an incredible character incredible manager her management style is what gets the best out of the team I think every single player I've never been really in a team every single player is also playing for their manager as well because you've got to leave a lot of players on the bench who are unhappy and are disappointed but the respect from the group for Serena from everyone is something I don't think I've ever really experienced before.

31:33And can you give us an example of when you think back to this last tournament of a moment that you think defines her leadership? Oh wow. she came out with she's not a massive speech manager before the game I love watching documentaries about teams and their managers and I see Arteta giving these incredible speeches sometimes and I find it really fascinating and Serena's never really been that type of manager she's more she's more throughout the week you know like drip feed things and then before the game she's a she'd motivate you for sure but it's not anything like from an emotional level she never really goes that deep there was a game where I'll actually give you two examples one she pulled a chair out and she said I brought this from the dolder and the dolder was our hotel and she stands up on this this chair and we're all like she's only small you know what I mean like she's gonna fall and she gives this speech and she like word to word I can't really remember it but it was the aura that she did it in it was so and because I've never seen her do that before she it was so powerful and it was so relatable and she always draws it back to the team and like the togetherness of the team the mentality the culture and and what what it takes to win and then she had the the other one that again for me was this one was a bit more special I think she's again she walks in before the game and she stands here like this and she waits if Lucy sometimes sits on the floor and she's fixing her shin pads and doing it here or some players are still getting dressed and she don't speak until people are ready she waits she waits and sometimes it's a little bit uncomfortable because you're like come on like sit down because she's staring at you but she she don't she don't say a word she waits and she waits and she waits and she checks everyone ready okay and then she speaks so we're all sat there as we do waiting for her to come in with the staff and she goes everyone up on your feet stand up I was thinking this is different like where's she gonna go with this and she's like interlink everyone like come closer come closer come closer and um she just just alludes to the fact that like we're in this together like this is what we've worked for this is what we've done for the players who have been out injured the players who who work so hard to be back and she just it was nice because it was so rare for her to do it and it was I laughed because she then started to do it a little bit more often and each one looked a little bit different so then I was like what's coming next yeah what's she going to pull out here but she brings a bit of humour to it as well but she she has a she has a purpose to everything that she does and that's what I find so so incredible about her I want to say something about a wash kit, a slogan on a wash kit.

34:37A wash bag, sorry. A wash bag. Tell us about that. Bitches get things done, along them lines. Bitches get things done and she held up this wash bag and she opened it and she's standing there and she gets out an item and she's like, we're going to use this for this reason. And then she says, and we're going to be bitches. like and you know me saying this people are probably sitting there thinking what goes on in England's dressing room like that sounds like absolute carnage like your manager's standing there saying you're going to be bitches but like I said she has a purpose to everything that she does and everything she she'd pull out of the of the wash bag every single one had a meaning for something it became a bit of we were all laughing our head off and but she she didn't break once into laughter at all she was dead serious and we all kind of walked out of that meeting and was like again as much as it was a laugh and a joke and that there was a purpose there was a method to the madness the reason why she did that was for a reason and somewhere along the line you'll understand and I think it was the last the semi-final we walked in the chair and that wash bag was just sat on the you have a middle bit in the chain room where you have your bitches get I think it's get shit done or something like that along them lines I can't even remember but and we all laughed and we thought oh here we go again she's getting the bag out but it was it wasn't that this time she was like just letting us know that's still there brilliant thank you for sharing so if you don't mind me then exploring the in the build-up to the tournament it was you had teammates or members of the squad from the past that either retired or stepped away or were injured.

36:23Yeah. How was that dealt with internally? Yeah, you're talking about Mary. Well, there was Mary, there was Millie. Yeah, Millie, Fran. And Fran. Yeah. I suppose all three look completely different because Millie didn't come to any prep camp. So we were aware that Millie had made a decision not to come to camp. Of course, a player of Millie's ability and experience, you probably sit there and you go that's not ideal she's important to this team obviously completely unaware of the conversation that they've had as in manager to player and then obviously we find out that she's injured which is the reason why she couldn't be a part of the team too and her personal reasons and so on and okay Millie's not coming but she's going to have time to decide if she wants to be available for the Orioles or look after an injury so that was one and then Mary announcement of the time which was for me probably the biggest shock and Mary might be surprised I say that because we've come through the age groups together and we travel to England together quite a lot in the car and we speak you know really honestly with each other because we've gone through quite a lot together and I've seen Mary's journey and she's seen mine and they've both kind of gone and then gone away and met again and I think what she's done for women's goalkeeping in this country is absolutely incredible.

37:53I can't describe you with the personality that she is. She's massive and she fights for things that people wouldn't even think about fighting for. She brings things up that you wouldn't even think about. Like what, for example? The goalkeeping shirt. Now I know I'm not a goalkeeper, but before the tournament, to back yourself, to fight that fight before probably the biggest tournament of your life again, after winning and achieving what you have, for me it's absolutely remarkable to say, I'm not backing down here. I'm going to make sure every little girl, boy, whatever, has the opportunity to buy an England women's goalkeeper kit.

38:31And I admire that a lot because I suppose me being me, I would be like, okay, I will fix that when I come home because right now I have to focus on my processes and that. I'm going to a World Cup. What does my preparation look like? do we need that distraction? Probably not. I'm going to park it and I'll come back and I will make sure I revisit that when I come home which is usually something Mary probably would do and she was so passionate about it. She was like I'm not letting this go. I will take it till the day before the game if I have to and rightly so. Fair play to her because that's the outcome.

39:07She did great things for the team and losing her was massive and she was really she came into the team before she announced it to the world. She came and spent the night with us. She had dinner with us. She done a little speech and super emotional, you know, because she's almost like saying goodbye a little bit, which is just mad because you just don't expect it. But again, another huge personality loss. So then you're like, okay, Millie, Mary. And then from my understanding, Fran had been told that she weren't going to get selected for the Euros. So then within that moment, she... took herself to quite quickly made the decision to retire age and where she was at in her career, in her life, etc.

39:55I don't want to obviously speak for Fran, but from the conversation I've had, she'd accepted, okay, I've done everything I can. Now's the perfect time to retire. So then another player retired and you're thinking, okay, these are three very different personalities, but also so much experience. Been to four or five major tournaments, played so many times for club and country, won numerous amounts of trophies. Okay, what does that look like for us? I guess at first, you know, it's noise. It's noise and we come together and we say, okay, there's going to be noise here. There's going to be even more noise outside here.

40:38What we choose to do is up to us. we absolutely should celebrate these two players who retired Millie's not retired Millie's injured and she can't make the Euros but these two players who retired we celebrate them and we enjoy what we did with them but we have to move on because we will celebrate them properly when we can and that was kind of Serena's message too we have a tournament that we need to go and win so yeah say thank you and appreciate it and we did because, you know, two really important people. But now we move on because we have to. I love that. I love the idea of acknowledging an exit in a dignified and graceful way though, rather than making it acrimonious of an unnecessary distraction.

41:26Yeah, and they massively deserve their moment. I think they will still get their moment because we could only do a small celebration with the time that we had. And I wouldn't even class it as a celebration, to be honest. it was an acknowledgement and thank you and you sure you sure okay yeah but I think they will get their moment of celebrating their success and what they've done for England because both of them have done incredible things in many different ways I'm interested in how you hold that space between your ambition of going but we we need to go and win this tournament and how you have empathy though for people that maybe are struggling or maybe in Millie's case for her own well-publicised sort of challenges that she's been going through.

42:11How do you still have empathy for her on a human level while still being fixated on we need to go and win this tournament? I think for me personally, it's acknowledging it and reaching out to her, which is what I did. I sent her a message. I made it clear. I don't expect a reply. I know you're going through a lot. I know you're obviously dealing with your own issues right now with your injury as well and just to let you know like I respect you for making that decision because by the way it's such a hard decision to make not to come to a tournament but yeah just to let you know that I'm thinking about you and I think for me I can because it's genuine I've gone through a lot with these girls and I don't want them to be in a bad place or struggling with injury like I said many times a year I've gone through it it's a lonely place to be and then to know you've got to sit on the couch and watch the team is difficult but then of course as soon as I've done that and I've acknowledged her because it's it makes me go okay she knows I care about her because I genuinely do I now have to move on to because I have to focus on what's best for the team and that's being ready to play in the tournament And whose legacy would you say still fell on the field even if they weren't in the squad?

43:39that's really difficult I think because because they're three very very different personalities I think Mary's point of view she was someone who would challenge when it's needed or she was just a huge character full of energy and she'd probably say what you're thinking she would be that person so I think in terms of personality were treated and probably from a personal point of view of someone who I aligned with it would be Mary because we had a very personal connection as well and again it's hard because also these three girls who I'm talking about I've gone through so much with them like Fran we were two youngest at 2015 we were roommates we shared things with each other of you know hard times that she's gone through like they're really personal moments that you go through with someone Millie as well like we've gone through so many tournaments together okay probably slight competitors that time but with the utmost respect for each other yeah so it's hard to say one or the other was was missed but I think from a personal point of view maybe from a communication point of view and someone who I would lean on for certain situations I want to talk a little bit about your own origin story growing up in Bootle who was it who spotted that seed of talent that has blossomed I'll probably say it's my uncle Billy his name is I think growing up in Liverpool it's a football city anyway it's you're red or you're blue you know in your family you might have Evertonians you might have Liverpoolians and on Derby Day it's we don't speak we don't talk we're not family today and that's how it was and my dad was a a massive Liverpool fan.

45:29His side of the family was majority Liverpool. My mum's side was Blues, Everton, through and through. My mum grew up as a kid, as an Everton fan, but my dad changed her to a Liverpool fan. As it goes, that happens, I suppose. So I grew up a Liverpool fan, a massive one. I'd go to the games when I could. But I think I was quite a boisterous kid. I was very outgoing. Mum said I was always on the go. I was a bit of a nightmare child. you know, just constant energy all the time. And she was like, what do I do with this kid? Like, she's just got energy all the time. And she said, I would, I'd just boot a ball or I'd throw a ball.

46:09She's just a very sporty kid. So she was like, well, does she go athletics? Does she go netball? And my uncle's like, take him and play football. She's like, I'm not having my daughter playing football. I've got an elder sister who is the complete opposite to me. Literally polar opposite. Nails, do her hair. Have a boyfriend, go out with her friends. And then she had this other little princess who just had no interest in being a princess at all. Just wanted to play football. And I just love sport. I just love football. I was obsessed. So what age did it start to appear evident that this could be a career?

46:43I think as a professional career, probably like 16, 17. I always knew I was going to play football in some way. And I knew and I was so obsessed. and when your friends go out on the weekends and I did it because it was, I wanted to fit in, I suppose, but I hated being there because I wanted to play so well on the Saturday and the Sunday for the team and I knew the right thing was to be in bed and do all the right things and as much as I knew then, which was the right thing was to go to sleep and when you listen to professional footballers then that was the right thing to do and I joined Devon at a really early age and then I went to, I'd go and watch the first team, which you had to do at a young age and then I trained with them relatively early I was 15 with the first team me and Nikita Paris and the game was very close to being on the verge of turning professional there was rumours about it there was you do little things here and there the WSL then was going to turn professional how that looked I had no idea I just knew I wanted to be a part of it So when you start playing with the more senior women Yeah what age did you feel comfortable like?

47:52I belong here. More like 18, 19. I made me Champions League debut. I was 16. I played in Champions League and I definitely knew I had potential to be a very good player. But I also know I had so much work to do because I used to, obviously I had Rachel Una who was so country miles ahead of me as a left back then, who I idolised. I think one thing I can always say I've done, as a player as a person is especially towards football is give absolutely everything I've got I might not always be the most talented in the team or the fastest the quickest the goal scorer the most popular choice a player but I'll always always work hard and I think that comes from your upbringing the people you surround yourself with and I actually sometimes think I don't know where I got that from like my mum was a really hard worker when it comes to jobs if she had to do two or three jobs to make sure I got to football and so be it.

48:53Likewise, my dad. I don't know how I align that with football so much, but I struggled really hard with knowing I wouldn't have worked hard enough. That was something that I felt, I still feel really passionate about. Go on, say more about that. I just think it's so, so important. I think it defines you as a character. I think you're setting an example for yourself, for the people around you, for your family, for what you believe in. I just don't think it costs anything to work as hard as you possibly can. How did you come to recognise the difference between working hard though and working smart?

49:29Yeah, that's a good question. Probably something I'm still working with, being really honest. I'm much better now than I've ever been. There's a very fine line and I think the obsession with working hard almost overtook football. as in a sense of I would do training away from football that was then affecting the football because I was overtraining, doing things I probably shouldn't have done, just going 5K runs and silly things really because I was just so obsessed with it. I was scared to fail. I was obsessed with wanting to achieve what I set out to achieve. And also as well, I think it probably, at like 14, 15 when you become a woman your body starts to change slightly and at that point you're seeing pictures of yourself and you're like is that how I want to look?

50:25Sort of body conscious about certain things and then that falls down into eating habits and it becomes like a slippery slope to be honest and you have to grab it quick enough before it gets out of hand and I see it a lot I see it a lot with females because I'm around them a lot with body image and comments that people say about you're on social media or have a perception of the way you are, how you look. And you don't have a choice of a picture that's posted on social media. And some people choose to read, some people don't. And it comes back to the hard work probably crossed the line of that a little bit more than the real reason why I was doing it, which was to be the best footballer I could be.

51:11Yeah. And you describe it as a bit of a slippery slope. How far down that slope did you fall? I mean, to an unhealthy place. I think you become like, I'm not going to eat that because I've gained weight or I would prefer to look slimmer in that picture. and this was like relatively young like I'm like 15, 16 years of age and yeah I think it was really unhealthy it was really difficult to know what was right and wrong because as much as I'd ever and at the time you know there'd be times where you'd have to log what you eat and stuff like that or you'd track certain calories and weigh in and weigh out and so on and so forth and it's a subject that's super sensitive to a lot of girls and me as well and females in general because I would probably say more than not are conscious of how they look and it can be detrimental to performance.

52:18And being able to climb out of that hole that it sounds like you maybe got yourself into, what did you learn that you could pass on to listeners or any other young women listening to this? I got to a point where it was impacting me, not just football, but probably life as well. And I probably went back to when I didn't feel comfortable. I was still performing really high and I was still getting selected for England and I was still playing at a really high level. Okay, you can always improve on fitness and you can always improve on speed and agility and all them small details, but I wasn't a million miles away.

52:56so I've actually done more damage to my body and my performance by doing it this way than small changes. So I was probably realising that my performance in training and in games was having a huge effect because I wasn't fuelled enough, I wasn't energised enough to play a game on a Sunday and I'd go home and go to the gym and that's just super, super unhealthy and also family, people around me, we're like this is out of control and we'll stop you from playing football if you carry on right which is harsh it's hard it sounds harsh but it was what needed to be said and the minute you mentioned football to me and taking that away from me that like broke my heart a little bit so I was like okay I probably need to do something about this so because that's an interesting one about your inner circle that you've got good people around you is what you said can you recall if they any particular line or any particular bit of advice that you got from that inner circle that did have quite a profound impact it probably hurt my dad more than anyone because I was a little girl and he could see how much it was affecting me but he didn't it wasn't more advice with my dad it was more I think the way he knew how to get to me was hurt her a little bit like make it feel really real and I actually think I was playing out of me in the street by my nans and we'd use an entry as a goal and I was almost like a little bit like well I said it and he came out to me and he I can kind of live a pearl kit on and I remember him saying to me, this has to stop because you're going to training tonight.

54:31And I'm telling you now that I won't take it anymore if this carries on. It's got to stop because it's unhealthy and it's not good. You know, you'd say you've got the capability to be a really good footballer and you're damaging yourself. And like I said, I was really young so I didn't really know how much damage I was doing then. I probably understand this so much more now and I don't think it ever leaves you. I don't think that subconscious about what you eat ever leaves you I think it's still always there I still think about it but I think about it differently now as in I need to do that to be the best on Sunday and to win and to be strong and fit and have no injuries whereas then it was I do that to see if I look better or yeah if that picture looks nicer than what it did before well thank you for sharing that because I know it's a sensitive topic the level you operate with today though you know like you hear the talk of marginal gains and the one percenters how do you know which information to listen to and which ones just to discard though for for your own well-being i suppose that comes with experience i'm massive on one percenters i think they're so important i think for me personally they are really important and i suppose you get to a point where you learn what works for you and that takes time like um I don't expect any 19-year-old to know what is perfect for them because you'd have so much going on, so much information.

56:02Like you said, you get told to do this then. Right now, as we play, we get told when to eat. We get to cook for us. We get to put in front of you. Everything's done for you, but it's the bit away from there. That am I, 1%. What do you do when the door's closed or when you leave the training ground? When no one sees you, it's such a cliche thing to say. what you do behind closed doors and you do hear it a lot from athletes but I do think and I'm a big believer that majority of your work is done when you leave the training ground. So if somebody was to come and shadow you for a day what would be the biggest surprise that they'd see when the door's closed and nobody else is around?

56:43I don't know if they'd last very long because I think I'm lucky because of Jack as well and because he's played the game and still now even though he's a retired footballer he still operates as a footballer This is your partner that you've been with since 6th form Since 6th form, yeah which I'm super grateful for because I don't know if anyone else in the world could ever put up with that and we have the same outlook on everything which is what we do in our spare time and I think the biggest thing is when I get home it's not I'm home and my day job is done how does the next meal look speak about football a lot I do I probably analyse football a hell of a lot whereas Jack's very straight to the point you know this is how it looks this is what which counteracts it works because we counteract each other a little bit but I think we're just very diligent if we if there's a day where maybe I've come home from training and I'm a little bit frustrated about the session I didn't feel like I got out what I've needed to there's a choice am I going to go and do more and I'll do more for the right reasons what does that look like does it mean I go and run on a treadmill does it mean I go and get in the pool and look after me body a little bit more and I'm so grateful that he understands that I make them decisions because he's probably in the car with me to go and do it so yeah I probably say that when the door's closed it's it's not like yeah I'm I'm done I'm gonna chill it's okay what does what does it look like for Sunday I kind of work backwards in that way.

58:19I was intrigued to explore that relationship with Jack because he's been with you on the journey like say from starting out at Everton right the way through to your career. What advice or feedback does Jack give you that you feel has had the biggest impact? Jack's very much someone who he'll just be completely honest and sometimes it's hard to hear because he watches the game from someone who's played the game so he'll hear what you're from, how I perform, and obviously he'll say great win or what a performance from the team, but he very quickly comes back to a moment. What was you thinking? He'll ask me, what was you thinking in that moment when you went 1v1 with a striker?

59:02Why did you show her on a left foot rather than a right foot? He's a very detail-orientated person and it's interesting because he played that way too and he's so detailed about how he prepared for games again what he had when he had it when he slept I'm obviously not just saying it but he is probably the most professional person I've ever met in my life and his attention to detail was just incredible and similar we're probably very lucky we had each other because I was very much the same right obviously Jack moving away from the game in the worst way possible has probably also benefited me because he gets to be with me more.

59:49He gets to come to games more. He gets to watch games more from a partner's point of view and he's still also like a coach as well. But he's just very honest and he'll be the first to say well done. But he'll be the first to say I think you're better than that.

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1:02:13can we now talk about your wider career because i'm i'm intrigued by the fact that you are well traveled as a footballer you know you've been to france as well as being incredibly successful here in england what have those experiences taught you about pressure and how you deal with it i would say france made me the player i am today and the reason i say that is because i was so far out my comfort zone than I've ever been that it challenged me in ways I never knew was possible and I was at Man United at the time I was the captain at Man United and genuinely I live five minutes away from the training ground 10 minutes from the stadium 45 minutes from family it was like how easy can you want it like not to the point where you'd take your foot off the gas but I had like everything was so smooth Jack was flying in football we lived together like it was life was amazing it was perfect it was exactly what you'd want it to be and then I had a call from my agent at the time who said we just got back from the France World Cup 2019 early on I want to sign you and I thought okay there'd been a little tiny bit of interest previously never happened never didn't think it'd ever happen again there's no problem that happens in football and it came round and I was like wow what do I do we've just been promoted to the Women's Super League I was captain of this club who was going to go on, who had massive ambitions and, you know, wanted to set a stall out women's football and, you know, all these incredible ideas.

1:03:50And I was like, am I ready to leave this opportunity that I've got? And I spoke to Jack, I spoke to family, and I just thought, I don't know ever if this opportunity is going to happen again. And I never want to regret any decision I've made. and I really, really, really want to compete for Champions League football and potentially win it. And I think that's when that winning mentality thing takes over a little bit and I made the decision, I signed and, sorry, I didn't sign, I agreed to go. It was obviously a really hard conversation with Casey, who was the manager at the time, which she somewhat understood.

1:04:27And once I agreed, it's really weird, but I had an instant feeling of regret, which is crazy. I was like, what have I done? Like, I'm leaving me home. I'm leaving Jack. I'm leaving me family to go and play in France. Like, what am I doing? But I was like, okay, you're just feeling a little bit anxious. Like, it's normal. You're going to live in a different country. It's fine. You'll be fine when you get there. And the feeling didn't go. It just didn't go. And I got there. And my mum flew out with me. And I was saying to her on the plane, Mum, I don't, is this the right thing? I don't know whether I'm doing the right thing here.

1:05:05and she's like you'll be fine like don't you know you love winning and you've worked so hard for this all your life like take it with both hands we're not going anywhere like we'll be here for you whenever you need us I was like okay mum said it's gonna be alright so maybe it is and I constantly check in with Jack what am I doing am I doing the right thing I was seeking reassurance yeah have I made the wrong decision I almost want them to say yeah you've made the wrong decision to confirm the way I felt but he never did and no one did and I was like why do I feel like this? Do you experience feelings like this previously?

1:05:38No, I'd never felt like that before ever it was really abnormal feeling I was but I was going to play for the best women's team in the world and at the time the best contract I'd ever had and all these great things that I've always aspired to want to do and win Champions League and play abroad and have a different experience I've outspokenly said I want to do all these things and then it got to it I'd agreed to do it and I had a feeling of like regret which is so unusual and yeah it's it's it's really hard to describe about why i don't know why i felt that way it was really unusual but you're super analytical so what is your best guess at why you felt like that i guess it was probably leaving what i had behind that fear of will it still be there when i come back or will i be as successful as i'm meant to be or will a club in England want me if it doesn't work?

1:06:35I probably over-analysed and over-analysed means a little bit of negativity and then I felt super anxious all the time I was struggling to sleep, struggling to eat when I got there I didn't have a place because the move happened super quick I didn't have an opportunity to find a place to live because we were going straight to America for pre-season I was literally living out of a suitcase in a hotel I'd never been to Lyon before I had no idea couldn't speak a word of French apart from bonjour which you learn in school and I was just I was going into a dressing room with players who to me were a little bit like I can describe I felt like I didn't belong in a way I was walking in with Wendy Renard and Marjan and Eugène Le Samir Amadeen Henry Sarah Bahadi I could go on and on and on and I sat there and I was like I do not belong in this dressing room like I am not good enough to be here which is crazy because I've never ever doubted myself like that before but yeah I sat there and I was like oh god like this is this is crazy so what did you do?

1:07:47I think revert back to type and say work hard on the training pitch and I think your your characteristics or your quality will shine through and if it doesn't I'll make sure it does at some point I think that's that's what what I've kept going back to even though it was still difficult you know I'd train and you're in France you leave you go home and the best part of 18 hours a day is spent on your own in a flat in France and I don't speak the language you know I'm still getting to know the team they were in England we're very outgoing people and do you want to go here for dinner do you want to do that it's not like that as much in France quite different people went home to their families and very much different cultures so I spent 18 hours a day sitting there thinking what have I done and it's just a negative cycle but as somebody that like you say was still wrestling with this idea of not going overboard not working hard to your own detriment how did you manage to avoid doing that I think probably at times I did not over again not over trained but like I said go back to my characteristics what makes me feel comfortable going to the gym so I signed up for a gym in Lyon and I'd go there and fortunately at the time Nikita Paris was there as well and she was experiencing similar feelings we shared that with each other and so we'd go and we'd just go and sit in a sauna and we'd talk and I could have a conversation in Scouts and English and feel slightly at home a little bit but I think like I said I wanted to go there and I want that feeling then of okay I'm here to win what have I got to do to win because I'm not I'd signed the contract and I knew, it's crazy, at the end of it, at the beginning of it, I'd already probably said, I'm only staying here for one season, I'm already planning to leave before I'd even began, which is just, for me that's so crazy because I had no idea what the next 12 months was to come, I could absolutely love it, but I'd already made that decision when I'd signed, I was going to leave at the end of it, which again, like I said, is so unusual because all I've ever wanted to do was play for the biggest clubs in the world and be successful.

1:09:58And here I had this opportunity and I was running away from it a little bit. It probably took me till Christmas time where I thought, okay, I belong here. I'm good enough to be here. There's times in training where I'm probably one of the best players in training because I work harder than you and I'm technically as good as you. I'll run after training and it's funny their culture's different to ours they don't run a lot or lift and by the end of the time I was at Lyon I had players French players joining me and running and in the gym lifting weights and I took a lot of pride in that because that English mentality of you know we work hard and you can't always have the best players at some point you've got to rely on something else and if that's being fitter stronger than fast than the opposition I do think Lyon are going to rely on that at some point So using your analogy you know going back to that penalty against Sweden and then the penalty against Spain in the 25 euros, where you're watching and you're observing very different sets of behaviours in each one.

1:11:02If someone was watching you in that first three months from joining up until Christmas and then watching you in that period after Christmas when you said, I finally felt I belonged, what would they have seen that was different? The people closest, closest to me would have been like, I'm two completely different people. Players, some which probably wouldn't have noticed no difference, apart from, you know, she's taking time to sell, but she's here now. Not anything personality-wise, because I'm very good at masking all them emotions and turn up for training, I'll smile. I'll pretend that I'm learning French and try and have a go with them.

1:11:39But the closest, closest people to me would probably say, I just went from being super anxious all the time and finding any flight home I possibly could, any day off I had. She actually looks like she's really enjoying her time there and she's settled and she's found her people. She's now there for the reason that she went and that's to play football, enjoy it and win. So now that you're a senior leader and a captain at Manchester City, how has that experience from France shaped how you lead in the dressing room? I would say in every single way. And I'll obviously dissect it a little bit because I appreciate so much players who come from abroad, way more than maybe I did previously.

1:12:27And the reason I say that is because it's really not easy to play abroad a different language. One walking into a dressing room that you don't really know their culture, what each individual is like, that is so, so difficult to do that. and I respect every single person who makes that decision to go and play in a different country. I admire it. I think it's incredible and as the captain now, as a leader, a more leadership role, I respect more players who take a little bit of time to settle. Say the player comes with a massive expectation and maybe delivering a little bit on small things and just that, listen like I'm here for it if you need me I understand you know you're living on your would you go and have that conversation with them absolutely yeah without a doubt whether I feel like they're struggling or they're not whether I get the feeling or the sense actually they fit and they're absolutely amazing or whether I think that play is really struggling I'll always try and let them know if if you need anything if you've if you need me away from football you can pick up the phone to me and I'll answer it if you find it difficult to have a conversation with staff or the language barriers there, let me know and I'll help you as much as I can.

1:13:50And I'll obviously try and delegate that as well to other senior players who are in a dressing room who've been and experienced these things as well. As you're saying it, the memory's just come to me that Michelle Agumanga spoke about your impact of integrating her as the youngest member of the current Euros winning team into that. What sort of advice would you give to a young person coming into the squad because you were obviously the youngest when you went into the was it the 2015 World Cup squad yeah 2015 Canada yeah I guess that because I've experienced it I know the pressure now to play for England compared to 2015 is night and day is completely different the just explain more what you mean by that I suppose going to Canada there wasn't we didn't go to Canada expecting to win the World Cup at all we we went there with no real pressure to be honest we never won a trophy before from my obviously experience within the group we'd never medaled before at a tournament or yeah even received any source of Achille when we were there so I went there as a as a 17, 18 year old like how is this going to be and I walked away with a bronze medal and then that then became the expectation that England go and England go finished with a medal that's 2015 2017 the Netherlands again get to a semi-final okay now it's minimum you get to a semi-final again 2019 World Cup France semi-final lose to USA for me that was now normal that's the minimum expectation but before that there wasn't any expectation whereas Michelle came into a team where the expectation target on our back were European champions from 2022 and we'd just got to a World Cup final six months ago Michelle wasn't even in the squad let alone coming to a Euro she had no idea she was going to be a part of this team and I'd just speak to her on a human level as enjoy it like take it for what it is if you get a moment take it and I promise you every player has a role to play in this team because whether you play every minute of every game or you play no minutes at all, 23 plays are so important.

1:16:14The plays you play, your score, they take all the accolades outside from media, from partnerships and sponsors, etc. But from within, what we see every player do who does not even step foot on the pitch is the reason why we win them trophies. See, as you're saying it though, I'm really intrigued because you've got such a fascinating position in the history of women's football, haven't you? because you've been there in that period where you're going in just to take part and now you're there like you say with the target on your back you're going with minimum expectations of semi-finals finals and gold medals around your neck I'm interested in terms of what you've learned about yourself in that process I've definitely matured as a as a footballer I think I think I mean, naturally, you're going to do that anyway.

1:17:10With experience, you're naturally mature anyway. I think for me as a footballer, I've also probably developed massively over from 2015 to 2025. Over the course of 10 years, I've changed the way I play. I've obviously experienced a lot at different clubs, being in successful teams, winning trophies at club level. I also do think I've changed as well off the pitch in terms of your communication, the way you are with people and I don't mean that just on the pitch I mean off the pitch being consistent with how you do things every single day I think you earn an element of trust from your teammates because whether you win whether you lose whether you play well or you don't you're the same I'm not saying I smile when we lose but I think overall if you're super consistent with how you treat people how you walk into the gym what you do in the gym how you train your perception of training or your analysis and so on because it's something I do because it works for me.

1:18:14You gain trust from your fellow teammates and I think that has a massive knock-on effect to how they approach you or the trust they have with you or the advice you give them whether they take it or they don't. What habits or behaviours do you think are now non-negotiable in the England camp? The non-negotiables would be, I think, respect. one for each other which respect is such a genetic word I think that looks how you treat not just the place but staff and your wider staff and what I mean by that is you leave the places you found it if you go into a hotel staff within the hotel you treat everyone with respect and that's something that's really important to us I think commitment commitment to each other commitment to the to the goal to the shorter goal, the short-term goal, the long-term goal.

1:19:09That commitment is really, really, really important. And are you going to commit yourself day in, day out for the bigger picture, the bigger purpose? There's a lot of trust that goes into it because we all go away to our clubs. Like I said, you go home after your day and is your bigger purpose still to win at the end of the summer? Your work ethic, your attitude to training, all these small things that are non-negotiables I know sometimes people say non-negotiables are like doing recovery and I don't think they're a non-negotiable I think they're an expectation now I think our non-negotiables are how we operate as a team the way we are with each other the way we are with our wider circle and the message we want to deliver to our fans and our younger generation and that's probably ours our purpose if that makes sense Yeah, yeah, it does.

1:20:05Absolutely. So as we start to wrap up then, Alex, we started this conversation talking about you making that decision to go and step up and take that second kick in the final. What's the bravest decision out of all the ones that you've ever made? I think I actually think leaving and going to France was probably the bravest decision I've ever made and to some people that sounds crazy because I've signed for the biggest club in the world at the time but for me it was the bravest because it was so far out my comfort zone I could have ever imagined that it actually had the best outcome it ever could have not just because I was successful by the way in terms of trophies but I came back a completely different person in terms of my outlook on life and football and my respect for players in terms of playing abroad and I almost think it almost harmed me a little bit and allowed me to be a bit more okay not everything has to be perfect all the time you can analyze whatever you want but it's not always going to be perfect so just relax a little bit more and do your processes and if you stick to it it'll be okay and my final question for you alex is that roger federer once said that all athletes die twice one when they retire and then secondly when they actually pass away when your career's over and i hope it's many years yet what do you hope your teammates are going to describe you?

1:21:36I hope to say that I was someone who was always there for the team, always put the team first. Actually a really good person. I hope to say I'm a good person before they mention anything about football, because I think that's more important. I think football, your ability takes care of itself, but to be a good human holds more value to me. What a great answer. Can we do quickfire questions? Yeah, of course.

1:22:05What are the three non-negotiables that you and the people around you are expected to buy into? Hard work, humble and consistency. If you could go back to one moment of your life, what would it be and why? That's hard because maybe that one moment wasn't that long ago. I'm maybe going to go a little bit different to this answer because I relate a lot to football, but maybe a moment when Jack play football just to watch him again one more time. Is there a particular game or a moment that he's go to? The header, the header he scored to help them get promoted was special, like them moments were special but I think just he had a routine of when he walked out of the tunnel and before the kick-off he'd do this routine he'd do and just a couple of steps back would jump up for the header just to get to see him do that again one more time would mean a lot.

1:23:03Lovely. What's one piece of advice that you'd pass on to a teenage Alex just starting out? I have no regrets. I have no regrets and honestly enjoy the journey. Enjoy every moment. It's honestly a privilege to do this as a job and maybe something I would change a little bit in young years was to be in the moment a little bit more and celebrate it rather than what's next, what's next constantly. So, yeah. How have you learned to do that more recently then? More experience. I've probably said that word a few times, but I think being content, just being a lot more content as a person, actually getting a little bit older, how many more times am I going to experience this?

1:23:50So actually, I've worked really hard to be here and I'm here and we achieved something special and I'm not just talking about by the way just a couple of weeks ago a week ago but over the last couple of years when I'm with my family I try and be a lot more present because usually I'm thinking when's football or when's the next game or if I'm in the room I want to be in the room if I'm just one enjoy the win enjoy it while it's here and tomorrow's a new day and we'll move on then but while I'm here let's enjoy it and the final question is what's your one golden rule to live in a high performance life?

1:24:28Consistency. Consistency and that's a very, it's a very generic word, but I think you've got to be consistent, not just in your job, but consistent in life, consistent in your personality traits, consistent in everything you do. How you treat people, respect for people, how hard you work. Again, then you go down, how you do your recovery, how you train, but for me consistency has a greater purpose than what people think This has been a consistently brilliant interview with consistently brilliant answers so thank you for joining us today Thank you so much, I really appreciate it Cheers Thank you Well what a great conversation Damien, thanks for that I think it's really interesting that you think that you're seeing everything that happens in modern sport because of social media because of various YouTube channels, because of players' own individual social media accounts.

1:25:28But actually, it's only when you get someone like Alex and really give them the space and the time to open up about what the actual experience was like at something like the Euros that you really see the truth. It's interesting, isn't it, how little we actually see of what's going on? Yeah, absolutely, Jake. I think this is it, that we only see the tip of the iceberg. You know, for example, like the conversation about Mary Earps and her retirement and what sounded like an awful lot of noise from outside the camp when you hear about how they responded with grace and dignity and allowed her to leave feel it with her head held high you realize the difference between the external narrative and then when we hear what's going on really inside the camp and look I always like asking you as well Damien you know was there one thing that Alex said or one experience that she shared that kind of makes you think a bit differently about your own life or your life going forwards yeah definitely I think, you know, it's literally just over a week ago since she was on the highest of highs.

1:26:24And yet when she came to us, she was just incredibly calm and considered in what she said. And then when we wrapped up, we asked her what's the one golden rule for high performance in her life. And she spoke about consistency, not getting too high, but not allowing yourself to get too low. And I think that's a really important message for all of us, really. You know what I mean? Like you've got to enjoy the moments when you're in them. but you've not got to allow them to define you. Brilliant. Thanks a lot, mate. Thank you, mate. And of course, big thanks to Alex for joining us to reveal what really went on in the Lionesses camp this summer.

1:27:00Don't forget, for more conversations like that, you can check out the back catalogue of High Performance on our app. And myself, Damien and the whole team, we'll see you again soon for another episode of High Performance.

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