Danny Drinkwater: Why I’m walking away from football (E222)

0:28Watch it early on the High Performance App. here anywhere else. Check it out right now, the High Performance Podcast app. Hi there, you're listening to High Performance, the award-winning podcast that unlocks the minds of some of the most fascinating people on the planet. I'm Jake Humphrey, and alongside Professor Damian Hughes, we learn from the stories, successes and struggles of our guests, allowing us all to explore, be challenged and to grow. So, here's what's coming up today. You know, careers are careers. I mean, football's a short one and they do come to an end, but not being able to, like, kind of go through it how you'd want to go through it, it's kind of tough to take as well, I suppose.

1:10We won the championship. We nearly got relegated the season after, first season in the Prem, and then the second year in the Prem, we go on and win it. Like, if you look at them as three years in football, it's just untouchable. I don't think you're going to get that. And then even the year after that, we got to the quarter-finals of the Champions League. It's not something that happens all the time, and I love football at Leicester, and I've never got it back since I left there. Obviously, I'm sobering up, and I'm in this cell, and I'm thinking, this is not you at all. It's not you as a person, it's not how you want to be as a person.

1:44You need to get hold of yourself here. It's the darkest I've ever felt, 100%. It was almost like you're drowning a bit, and you forgot how to swim. Why am I here and not even playing? So today we welcome a Premier League winner whose story is about so much more than just lifting that trophy. Danny Drinkwater is one of the most talked about and controversial players of the last few years. Yet today, he tells you his story in his own words and nothing is off the table. It's time to find out what really went on behind the headlines. And we start with some big personal news as we welcome Danny Drinkwater to High Performance.

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4:04Welcome to High Performance. Thank you. You seem like a man who's ready to talk. Yeah, just about. Well, let's start with some news then. I suppose you should probably share the news rather than me, right? Yeah, I guess I can do. I'd just like to announce my retirement from professional football. Probably been a long time coming, maybe, especially with the last year. but no I think it's time to officially announce it now. How does it feel even saying that? Do you know what I didn't actually think it bothered me but saying it then it's almost like you know it's scratching the nerve a bit but I think I've been ready for it.

4:39I think like I said outside you know I think not stopping at my peak and kind of it simmered down a little bit has kind of helped the transition definitely. When did the moment sort of dawn on you that alright that's it then? I think I've been in limbo for too long. I think I've either been kind of wanting to play but not getting the opportunity to play at kind of a standard or a level where I felt valued. So I just thought like I'm wrestling here for no reason. I'm happy not playing football, but I'm happy playing football. So do I just shake hands with the sport kind of thing? So I can see like when you say I'd like to announce my retirement, you can see then like the emotion.

5:17What does it stir in you when you say it? I mean, it's all I've known. it's been my life since I was six seven years old I think so it's not you know it's never going to be like an easy thing I think the way it's kind of died down in a way has definitely helped it listen if I was playing week in week out and I had to say like I've got to stop maybe through injury or through just age not being able to like get about the pitch like I'd like to I think it'd be a trickier and is there a level that you wouldn't consider playing that I mean I've had I've had quite a few offers on championship clubs and stuff.

5:53I just never felt like the burn. I just never, it just did nothing for me. I spent last year, the last year playing football on loan at Reading. Found, you know, I was unfit. Found the first six months, like, really hard. Last end of the season, Paul Lins came in. And, you know, just having his old school kind of methods and stuff really helped me. And then I kind of found my feet again towards the end. but I mean going into the season after that not having been snapped up was kind of a bit of like a something don't feel right here kind of thing so I think then it was like I either pushed on fitness wise by myself or I kind of just like I said just shook hands with the sport What's that emotion like when you're a Premier League winner in his early 30s who's bought for multi millions of pounds by one of the biggest clubs in the country and suddenly the offers aren't coming in, is it a sense of rejection?

6:52Do you feel forgotten about? Yeah, it's probably a bit of both. I must have been scratching my head for weeks. I remember speaking to someone else in football and I was like, I just don't get it. How has no one come and took a little chance just to get me really fit? Because they know what I'm capable of when I'm fit. I just need to get fit. I've never been really obsessed with football. I've just absolutely loved it so then the idea of me dropping down is fine I've not got a problem with that it was the idea of not playing to my worth like I when I left United I had this thing in the back of my head that was burning for years and it was to get back to like a top 4 or 5 team and I think when I did that it was almost like you know I'd not only proven it to myself but it was almost like a you know kind of like a dig like shouldn't let me go like i'll prove you wrong kind of thing do you know i mean i think that was kind of one of the big things that spurred me on throughout my career it wasn't the thought of dropping down leagues and stuff till i till i can't move it was the thought of you know kind of proving people wrong i think so what did manchester united teach you then about high performance oh everything i can't remember anyone growing up at united and saying a bad thing like literally from things off the field to everything on the field it taught you how to behave it taught you how to address people it taught you how to you know manage yourself on the pitch you know it wasn't easy I've seen kids like get cut at young ages like like friend really good friends at the time and it wasn't easy but you know if if you was one of the small minority that made it, it was such a good thing.

8:45And who were the people that you remember as being what we would call cultural architects? Who were the people around there setting the tone, letting you know the standards required at that football club? I mean, when you look at Sir Alex, he was always the king. And what about when you got towards the first team? Who were the players you looked at and thought, oh, that's the level, okay. I mean, I was in the same building as Paul Sculls, Roy Keane, Gary Neville. The motivation, you just turned a corner in the corridor and it was like, wow. Like, you know, you were almost like starstruck and you're literally in the gym next to him.

9:17It was a bit surreal. It was this one summer, Cristiano Ronaldo was there for I think nine or ten months, you know, and then the season kind of ended and he left that summer and he wasn't this big machine. You know, he was like a thin, like kind of young teenager as it was and he'd come back after that summer and he looked like he'd just grown. It was crazy. and then even seeing that you know you're looking at that and you're thinking that's where I need to kind of get to that's the kind of level do you know what I mean I remember that that summer that whole season I just absolutely smashed the gym because of what I see in him think out of the gym or somewhere and do you ever remember getting any words of advice or guidance from any of those players you've just referenced yeah there was I mean there was there was a few times where they'd you know they'd pull you I remember we played when we was in the reserves and that.

10:10And Danny Welbeck, Danny Welbeck was like, he's still obviously a really good footballer, but he was highly thought of in the team. And, you know, quite a lot of the first team and stuff would help him, especially Rio was really close with Welbeck. And then, you know, you'd get people like Fletch and stuff would give you like a nudge and be like, you know, you need to get your head down here and kind of crack on because you're not too far away from where you need to be. Which is obviously, you know, as a young player, you absolutely love that. And what about Ferguson? like he's famous for his man management is there any sort of examples you can give of his i had a few dealings with sir alex to be honest he was i remember there's a few so for some reason i always got proper close with like the chefs at the clubs and i you know i love my food and i love cooking and all that so just naturally and i remember i was waiting for this uh spaghetti bolognese what mike the chef at united at the time used to do fresh i was like buddy hell mike any chance next minute running back in my head i was like what and then he's like you dare speak to him like again i was like oh he's like apologize and then mike the chef's like behind the oven like i'm like sorry mate he's like i thought so that's valuable though isn't it yeah of course yeah it's like you know at the time as a young kid you're probably thinking like you know but then when you get old you're like wow i've taught me so much, so much.

11:32Just being around the building I thought it was a great place to grow older for sure. So how and when was the news broken to you that it wasn't going to happen for you at United? Yeah, it was 21. So I went through all the kind of loan kind of structure that's really beneficial as a player as well at a young age. And yeah, I was about 21 and I think it was when I had a couple of unsuccessful loans that didn't really go to plan. And then I was at Barnsley, which I absolutely loved. Loved that club. And then Leicester came in for a bid and then United kind of like, was saying, I think it's time. And I was like, well, you know, I can't say no.

12:13So I guess I just move on. So when you went to these loans as a young lad, it must have felt like a bit of a culture shock. What was it that you struggled with? I think a part of it was how physical it was. I mean I was still a kid when I was 18, 19 years old I had nothing on me I was like a chicken bone So the day that you have to pack up your stuff and leave and go to Leicester there's obviously an element of like I've been bought by another club I'm wanted you know I'm going to have a career but it's also like that dream of year after year just fighting to become a Manchester United player had gone Was that moment difficult?

12:50Like did you fight and sort of say no I can make it as a United player give me another season or did you just accept the club's decision? No, I think I just accepted it. I think I had no choice, to be honest. I think if the club was to say no to the offers, I think that, you know, you kind of got something behind you then to really, like, get your teeth stuck into kind of thing. But I just think when a club kind of accepts an offer from another club, you know, they're kind of saying, we want the money instead of you kind of thing. Did it hurt? Yeah, it did, yeah, definitely. And I remember going back, now there was no communication at all between me and the club.

13:24It was literally done between, like, agents. And I was like seven years. I was seven years old I was there from, 21. It's quite a long time. And it was nothing like thanks or like well done, good luck and all that at the time. It was a bit deflating for sure. Maybe your first lesson at that moment about how brutal the world of professional sport is. I think it was, mate, yeah, because you go from being protected so much at United to then like, there you go, kind of deal with it. But you do get taught really good things along the way. I'm not saying they left me to the dogs, do you know what I mean?

13:58We did get taught so much things. But what was the moment when you felt like, I'm on my own here? It was a feeling I'm not having that safety net. Well, it turned into the best time of your career. I'm sure you wouldn't argue with that. Let's talk about how special and magical those few years were at Leicester. When you reflect on it, now you've got that great power of hindsight to actually look back properly. Yeah, for sure, yeah. What was the magic? Definitely the team bond was unbelievable. and then I'd probably say me personally I'd probably say balance like I've never felt so like balanced on and off the pitch during my time at Leicester than ever before Explain what you mean by that Dan Like I was I was confident when I got through that first period at Leicester after that I was just full of confidence I wasn't arrogant I was just confident and then on the pitch I was you know I was this communicator but I would never like overstep the communication where I'd maybe make someone feel like a bit of shit.

14:58You know, and then off the pitch, I had like, I was in like a long-term relationship, but then I would also enjoy time with a lot. Everything was just kind of felt right, all felt dead easy. But I think it was just everything felt like such nicely timed for that finish. It's hard to really put into words. And when you reflect on that time, what is the, you know, for a lot of people it would just be like, the trophy lift was the famous moment when you won the Premier League. What do you remember, though, as a moment that kind of summed up what that club did for you and why it was so special? It was, we won the championship, we nearly got relegated the season after, first season in the Prem, and then the second year in the Prem, we go on and win it.

15:42Like, if you look at them as three years in football, it's just untouchable. I don't think you're going to get that. And then even the year after that, we got to the quarterfinals of the Champions League. It's not something that happens all the time, that. So when Pearson gets sacked, that's the first time that you've obviously lost a manager, if you like, at a club. So what was the reaction to his sacking, but equally, what was the reaction when you heard that Ranieri was coming in? I think having Claudio Ranieri come in, it was a huge name and he'd managed some massive clubs. So I think, you know, me including the lads were like, bloody hell.

16:18Like the owners are really having a go here like you know we've just kind of scraped it in the prem like this is a big sign this and what was he like as a manager i was wicked absolutely wicked yeah i loved him i used to call him a granddad honestly he treated him like a grandson it was it was just unbelievable like if there was anything he ever needed even like an extra day off because something that maybe had happened off the pit he'd be like no problem drinks just make sure you look after yourself kind of thing look after your family whatever and then just come back the day after and make sure you're good to go.

16:49For me, it was exactly what I needed at exactly the right time. And when did you know or believe you were going to win the Premier League? I've always said it was City away. I remember that game and it was, we didn't get dominated and luckily score three goals. We kind of dominated the game and kind of battered them. And in the dressing room afterwards, I remember like, fucking hell, lads, like this is our chance this. but if you could pinpoint the difference then between the season before where like you say you've nearly got relegated to go into city and dominating them what was the difference i think going through what we went through so that relegation thing and like coming out of it right at the end i think the momentum of that going into the new season massively helped us because you know we've we've almost like flirted with what the possibility was of going back to the championship and I think that was like a strong feeling for quite a lot of us and then starting the new season in the Prem it was like we're staying in the Prem there's no two ways about it like we need to do everything we can to to make sure we stay in the Prem and then you know you win a game you win a game and then it's like shit but yeah it was just it was just an unbelievable season.

18:01In the moment you lift that trophy is there any part of you that's thinking about Manchester United and the fact they let you go at that point? Yeah there was definitely a part 100 % there was definitely almost relief there was obviously relief that we've just done it finally and personally for me it was like I can still do what I know I can do it was a huge trophy but then you know that summer window there was a few of the big clubs knocking on the door wanting to take me and I was like listen I want to see this through with Leicester I want to win the Champions League it's a journey I want to still be a part of it I think then it was more like my focus was mainly on Leicester and seeing what we can achieve again I didn't want to disappear then from Leicester I wanted to carry on that was just the driver for me massively of course the one thing that is bigger than club football is international football yeah yeah and this was the time that the moment came where you got an England call up how did that feel?

18:56no that was mad the first call up because it was it was getting talked about quite a bit and you know why is he not in the squads and all that stuff but I didn't really pay too much attention so I was trying not to I think when I did equaled the feeling of lifting the trophy for me How did you find out? We was training on the pitch. It was obviously before the training session, the lads and that, you know, it was like, oh, drinks, you want to get cold up? And I'm like, no, no, leave it, you've got no chance. Like, it's got to train kind of thing. And then the kit man, mackerel at the time, at Leicester, ran out, drinks, drinks, you're in the squad.

19:26And then the kind of training stopped and that, everyone just buzzing, you know, high fives everywhere and that. Didn't really sink in, and then when I got home, told my dad, and yeah, probably the first time I've seen him cry, to be honest. he wasn't as emotional when you won the league no no no no that England call up for him I think was like the big the big thing what did that do for you oh yeah it made it mad in it validation everything like looking at like wow finally made him proud kind of thing you know you go from win the league to like getting your England call up and it's like this is what I've worked kind of so hard for and what was it like when you turn up for your first yeah it was mad it was mad I remember I mean it wasn't the time when like you know there was Steven Gerrard, Frank Lampard and John Terrys.

20:09It wasn't that time, but still had like unbelievable players who I looked up to for like the majority of my career. And I was, I mean, you look at like Gaz Cahill, there was James Milner, you know, players I've played with like throughout England levels, schoolboy that I was now playing in the first team with. That was like a, that was really good, man. The first England period for me was, I was kind of chuffed for myself. So Leicester was a fairy tale? Yeah. England wasn't? No, it wasn't. Not really. After the fourth or fifth time, or maybe even less, third or fourth time, the kind of, the shine kind of comes off a bit and the kind of reality hits and that.

20:48You know, I wasn't really playing. I remember my debut, I got my match on my debut and I was thinking, fucking, I'm flying. Like, buzzing, when's the next one? You know, and then I went to the next one, didn't really play. And then I was like, scratching my head, got cut from the Euros. And I was like, scratching my head again, thinking, what's going on? Let's talk about the Euros, I mean, because that was sort of felt from the outside especially brutal how did it feel for you it was it was i didn't expect it at all i remember when they brought jack wilshon to the squad for this so it was it was that first we had like a training camp before it and i know i know jack i've played with him in the school boys he's unbelievable player unbelievable when he was brought in i kind of knew that and i kind of thought this is a he's not played all season like what's this about and then we go like a week into the training kind of schedule and you get a feeling so yeah Roy Hodgson and Gary Neville at the time though you've obviously got the relationship with Gary from your days at United so what what were they saying to you during this period?

21:47Not much to be honest there wasn't there wasn't like a lot of personal interaction to do with the game it wasn't like do this a bit more and you're going to 100 % be on the plane there was none of that So if you loved Ranieri Yeah How was the relationship with Roy? No way near the same In what way? Well, I mean, I wouldn't call Roy Hodson my granddad, I'd call Claudio Renier my granddad. I just don't think we probably enjoyed each other's characters as much as what me and Claudio possibly did. So how do they break the news that you're... It was a phone call to the room. So it was like, yeah, it was mad, honestly.

22:23So before we disappear off-duty kind of thing, it was, right, I'm going to go back to your rooms and then we'll call a meeting in like an hour. Sound. And then the phone rings. and then I was like who rang? Roy and I was like I know who this is so I answered are you? and then it was obviously Roy yeah yeah I'll come he won't miss go to his room so I was like yeah yeah no problem come down and on the way down I was like I know I'm cut

22:53so then we obviously just we spoke nothing like you know I think it was about this and this it was just we just decided with Jack instead of you you've had an unbelievable season kind of thing, don't let it kind of get to you. Go and enjoy your summer. So I was like... And you said sound. You know, and then obviously when it kind of, you know, when you come off your oldies and you're watching the team and then it's like, the fuck? Like I should be there, I should be trying to help them. But you know, it's been taking out your hands, you can't do anything that would be the closest I've got to possibly playing in the Euros 100 % and it's just been taken away do you know what I mean but what's interesting is like you spoke about Claudio Ranieri and it wasn't big things he was doing to build that relationship so was there some small things that you think yeah they could have done that better or I mean with me personally it was a bit it was it felt almost a bit prison-y like international football you know you'd go to St.

23:55George's Park and you'd be in St George's Park for four, five, six days, whatever. And you're literally stuck in the hotel. Like I live an hour away from that. So I don't know, to get the best out of each player, could you not give them the option of maybe living in at home and traveling in? I don't know. Possibly. I mean, I used to travel further to Leicester. So that to me was like walking a park. Well, let's move forwards then. So the England thing happens. You go back to Leicester you get to the quarterfinals of the Champions League amazing I'd love to know how you first heard of Chelsea's interest it was yeah it was the season after we won the Prem so I was I was aware of that through the whole summer there was I think it was through my agent and stuff there was quite a lot of contact and then Golo-Canti deal happened and they had a bit of a falling out between the clubs over the deal so then they kind of come back and was like listen we still want to get this done you know but the relationships kind of fell off between us and Leicester and I was like listen I'm I want to stay for this for this Champions League thing anyway let's you know we revisit it whatever and then the January window come and we were still in the Champions League so I was like I'm not leaving this there's just no chance and then obviously I think it was was it February I think we might have fell out the Champions League so I think then from coming out of the Champions League to the end of the season at Leicester.

25:22It was always a bit like, I felt imbalanced. Do you know what I was saying before about my balance? And like I felt then it was a bit of an imbalance. I kind of knew I was going to Chelsea. It was just really hard work to get out. Really hard work. How do you mean? It wasn't done in the right way for me. It got a bit like, it got a bit silly really. Can you give us an example? The director had been in meetings and I'd have to barge in and like try and cause a scene just to get an answer out of him. Do you know what I mean? It shouldn't have been like that. It should have been like, thanks, just sit tight, we just want this much.

25:55Just be patient, it's going to happen. That's how I would have liked it to have gone. But you know, it just got a bit silly. So when you barge in, what are you saying? Well, just the typical angry little Danny, aren't I? Get a fucking deal done, what's going on? And they say? I'm in a meeting, like, what? Get a fucking deal done. And it was just silly, it was just getting daft. And then I remember, even Riyadh's got a bit, you know it was never it was never easy getting out I mean it never is really getting out of a club to be honest and it's not one I wanted to leave it's just I had to leave I knew like that had kind of completed its journey and there was no chance I was missing out on this opportunity so it just it just needed to happen and it was just it was just a shame the way it did and do you think you managed to influence what happened in the end?

26:42100 % so the deal happens deal happens they don't want an angry Danny staying at Leicester so no no Do you think that, maybe they thought that? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, going back to my 90 days, honestly, I used to be, I remember Ollie, Warren Joyce, and a few of the reserve managers, I think we were in at McFelan, I think we were in the meet at the time, and they were like, are you sure this is what you want to do? Play football? I was like, what do you mean? Yeah. Don't know what else I'm going to do. You just seem like so angry all the time. Oh, right. Okay. They couldn't see you, the enjoyment that you were getting out of there.

27:16But it was just my way of expressing, as a young kid, you know what I mean? And what did that do for you? I mean, I'd like to say it fired me up. I'd like to say it made sure I didn't do the mistake again. You know, it was my way of learning kind of thing, but if I could look at it a different way, 100 % I would have done. I just didn't have the tools to do it. You know, I just didn't know how to speak kindly to myself to then learn from kind of like a bad pass or like a, you know, a crap shot or a bad touch or something. You know, it was always like, fuck's sake, come on you, what are you doing?

27:47it's kind of my reaction to stuff and did you have the tools at Leicester before you got angry to try and have like a civil conversation first with myself no no you just it was just like zero to ten pretty much like so if I was doing all the good passes all the right passes and then I wouldn't be like well done mate like well done it would just be like oh so you wouldn't give yourself the pat on the back nah not really nah looking back now I'm thinking like why didn't you some of your stuff you used to do mate it used to be class so where does that come from then? like my dad's exactly the same if not me on steroids like he's so bad with it so my dad's like he works in labour like he's a building trade but honestly like if you listen to him trying to fix a radiator you'd be thinking a bomb went off and it's like what the fuck am I listening to here?

28:34and was he tough with you as a lad? yeah but nothing out of the ordinary? no nothing out of the ordinary no I just you know I think it was just again like I don't think he had the tools to know how to deal with things differently and I think I just kind of like picked up on stuff kind of on the way through so you see as a father now yourself yeah what would you do differently than what your dad did for you when you're watching your lad play football no everything everything different i've to be honest i've with my little man i don't think a little part of me has been like pushing him into football kind of like do what you want to do mate do what you want to do so you're trying to get out of leicester right were you able to use these tools to, like positive tools to get out?

29:15Or did you go straight to the angry Danny as soon as you thought the deal wasn't going to happen? No, no, I remember, it was Craig Shakespeare at the time with the manager. And I remember going to him and saying, Shakes, listen, you know this needs to happen. Gutted, it's underneath you. I don't want to leave you. But you know, the opportunity is just too good. I just, it's been sat there for a bit. I can't, I can't not go. Then we kind of talk as people, you know, are you sure you'll be happy in London? Yeah, I think I'd love it to be honest. And then it's like, you know, you kind of look at it from outside of football and then he'd be like I don't know what they're going to do drinks to be honest but just be patient maybe there's not much I can do without shakes this needs to happen this might sound a silly question because I get moving to Chelsea is exciting but what was it for you was it the idea of getting to that top four club that you had from United or was it the financial incentive what was it that was driving you to be so desperate it was that that burning in the background getting back to a top four it was me wanting to prove people wrong again like United told me like but I'm gonna get back there don't worry about that obviously listen the finances are great like you know you're getting put you was on so much and then you're getting put on this much but it was it was always about that top four yeah and being like regular Champions League like Europa Cup all them big tournaments it was all about that so should we talk then about life at Chelsea yeah yeah of course yeah you know people will make that assumption 35 million quid whatever was paid for you phenomenal wages living in London back at a top club what was the reality of that move like?

30:50As a whole it was obviously garbage but you know if you break it down I had some unbelievable times there not unbelievable but like you know really good times so I mean the first day was madness like literally it was left Leicester deal hadn't been done and from what I know I don't think Leicester planned to get it done drove down sat down there with my agent and a few other people was in like a hotel for majority of the day and then we got an extension on the deadline because it was never done in time i remember so michael eminola at the time we've you know he's like bear in mind i think it was like one two o 'clock in the morning he was the director of football at chelsea yeah yeah correct yeah and then he's like you know shouting down the corridor let's get this deal done and all this and I'm sad, thinking, fuck you, now what's going on?

31:38And anyway, we get the extension and signed it and all that, and Michael's still in his office. So I've walked down like sheepish and put a face on. Mike's like, not got the deal done. It's not been done. He's like, fuck you, what? And I've gone, way! And he's like, oh, jinx, you dickhead. So I'm like, no, it's all done. Obviously buzzing then. Yeah, I bet. So did you have a conversation with the manager? no only previous on the phone never met him what i've seen him i've seen his work in the season and i'm all over it i'm thinking wow this guy's a genius and like tactically like he looked he looked like way better than anything else i've ever seen but it was more about like when we when we'd speak it'd be more about i'm excited to get you at the club you know you kind of look like the player that'll slide right in and all the right things when do you think things first started no longer going right at Chelsea?

32:37So, I mean, the third season was a bit trick-eyed. You know, I picked up, like, three or four niggly little injuries that were just... I mean, it's just part of football, really. You can't really point any things like that. Was there any part of you that was acting, like, differently? Because, you know, you've been a great pro till this point. Were you suddenly earning loads of money, out on the lash, having a bit of fun in London, not fully focused on your football? Like, had you changed? Oh, in the second season, 100%. Not in the first season? No, no, I was... You arrived and you were... I was on it, yeah.

33:07I was dying to get going. It was never the fee that bothered me. That was like, that's just separate. It was more like, I need to prove myself again now. You know, I've ticked a box by getting back to a top four. Now I need to stay there kind of thing and, you know, prove to myself. Not about anyone else. It's myself now. And then, you know, you kind of get the injury, you know, it's like, right, okay, go again, come back. And then it was literally, at the end of that season, like, with Chelsea, it was just i had this one moment i disappointed massively and can't say too much but hopefully you know in the future it's going to get solved the kind of thing but that summer after that i was like i need to go this just isn't for me this is it's not really worked from the get-go and then this has happened so i could do we go in here this isn't going to go any better and i remember in that first season I moved like I bought a big house to move all my family down all my dogs everything have a good go of it and I was ready to just like forget about that and just go where I needed to get just so like my career would kind of not go the way it's gone so you you had to get out I was I was trying to leave that first window I appreciate confidences but what was it was it a personal or was it a professional thing no it was I mean I can't say too much yet, I don't think, but it was to do with a club, yeah.

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36:48so basically you've arrived at Chelsea the very first opportunity to leave you feel you need to go and to this day you're unable to tell people what it was it wasn't so what I can't say happened before I wanted to go so it was me then thinking like this is just not for me like I need to go so that was previous and now in the summer I'm trying to leave and then my agent's saying listen like they're not letting you go you're getting another manager in stick around she's she's not letting you go stick around so i'm like what the fuck right okay i'm making out like you know me staying at chelsea is a really bad thing still a great thing but when you get a feeling i kind of i knew it wasn't gonna go the way i wanted it to go but it was just out of my hands at that point and if you were able to tell people now what had happened would they have a greater understanding of what happened afterwards and why things got so difficult.

37:47Possibly, yeah. It'd make more sense. So although we can't talk about that moment specifically, you can tell us the impact it had on you? I mean, you can see the impact. The season after, didn't play a single minute. You know, that's when we go back to what you were saying a second ago where I'd get stuck into the London City life. You know, I'd be partying way more than what I kind of want to do. and my focus was on football for the first time. And you use that term balance quite a few times, so it sounds now that things have gone completely out of balance. I'm interested in who was around you to remind you of that balance or to help you try and find a better place.

38:29I mean, it was probably me, to be honest, looking in the mirror kind of thing. It wasn't coming externally. You know, I'd be going into training knowing I wasn't playing and sometimes, not even training, it was so strange like I'd go to training and I'd be doing fitness on my own whilst the lads were training and I've never been in that position in my life and I was like what is going on here this is so foreign to me this and it's like the fuck I'm here to play football not to like you know I'm an athletics runner like get me on the pitch didn't you try and have a conversation with the club and say listen let's just sort this out Like, this isn't working for anybody.

39:12At the start, I did. It was Sarri. He was a great guy, by the way. And we got along top. It was so strange. Like, we got along top. I just don't think we've seen eye to eyes. I don't even know if it was from him, looking back now. But I was given an hour to, like, find an English club. And I was like, what are you fucking... How do you mean? So, we had the meeting. He pulled me into his office. This is, like, an hour before the window closes. This is under Sarri now? Under Sarri, yeah. And Gianfranco's always in there, who's, again, a really nice guy. And we're talking, just having chat. And then he goes, let's talk serious kind of thing.

39:47I think you're going to get frustrated with your playing time this season. I'm like, what? Where's this? Like, you know, they just signed Jorginho kind of thing, which is fair. But, you know, I'd been a part of his pre-season plans and stuff. I was always playing games. I'm like, what? Where's this come from? And then Gianfranco, and I was like, I've got an hour. Like, what's going on? Like, no, no, like, you know, there's a load of Italian clubs. I was like, I've just had a kid. Like, I ain't going anywhere. So what do you want me to do? He's like, oh. So I was like, what the fuck? So I just walked out.

40:17It was a difficult one that because I was in a position there where, you know, first of all, it was a surprise. And then secondly, it's going way against what I wanted. So then it's like, they will just go to Italy or go to Spain in the leagues. And then I'm like, no, man, my priority is my kid. Like, you've got no chance. like this is this is all change now I'm I'm sticking in I'm this is me I'm settling here there was talk of Cesc going at the time but then you know he stayed Jorginho came in so I knew it would be hard work listen I knew it wasn't going to be easy but I did not want to become a part of that loan market that Chelsea's got it was just never in my plans when I joined ever you've walked out of the office you've decided that I'm I'm going to stay here yeah how did you go about resetting expectations if you did i think a part of me did a part of me didn't want to let it go though it was i was literally going in training and my mindset totally changed so like i i'd where in the past i'd go into training and i'd be 100 on it every day i'd be grafting i'd be probably i'd like to say i'd work just as hard as the hardest person on the pitch you know but i'd have my off days where i'd get pissed off or whatever like natural but i was now going into training just to keep people entertained like I'd go in and be like on the drive in I'd be like right drinks just don't be a **** today kind of thing just be a nice guy like don't let it piss you off too much you know if you can make people laugh did you feel you'd been forced into this you know football's controlled by transfer windows anyway so I knew as soon as this one went I had another four or five months until January so it was like just get on with it and then that window come and I was like you know I didn't have a schedule with my son at the time it was still all over the place with custody kind of thing but I was still not willing to to go to then mess that up even more because that was my priority so I think it was taken out of my hands I didn't have, there's nothing really that I could have done better at that stage What do you reflect on as the lowest point?

42:24I'd probably say that season yeah, I just think the whole season was just tough it was so hard because then you know I've got things happening off the pitch and then things are not happening how I'd like to on the pitch and you know we talked about we said about balance again like if shit hits the fan off the pitch but it's going good on the pitch you can kind of juggle it a bit whereas if both are like all over the place you just don't know how to like react to anything it was it was a strange position and what came first was it the off the field problems you think precipitated what went on on it or was it the other way around i don't think it was one or the other i just think at the time you know like that was the club's decision and the manager's decision and then this is kind of happening and it just kind of all like fitted in where i just didn't know really how to how to manage myself we had a conversation with jordan henderson who spoke about, again, almost lacking the tools to be able to handle some of the professional challenges.

43:28He was coming home and he almost wouldn't open up to his wife and that created issues that he eventually managed to resolve. And I'm interested in what this professional situation was doing for you, going home and dealing with some of the challenges you were facing. I was a single lad in London at the time, So I was, you know, without giving too much detail away, I was like, I was being a single lad in London. I was getting stuck into living in the city. I was trying to enjoy that side of life as a kind of cover for everything else, basically. You know, that's what I'd use to kind of enjoy myself because everything else was going pretty shitty.

44:09You look back now and it was, you know, I'd be going out drinking, I'd be, you know, single, like I said, so I'd be getting older, like any bird I kind of can, and it was just mad. It was just not me as a focused footballer, do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. People will look at this and go, you're earning huge money. Yeah, it means... You're a huge football club. You don't even have to go to work. You can just be your own guy. You're in the capital of England and you're single. You must have been having a great time. What is the reality? I mean, it does sound great, to be fair. It sounds great.

44:45But when everything's not going right, and you've got that, that is irrelevant. It's secondary, like earning the wage is absolutely pointless. It doesn't mean a thing. I think anyone thinking earning a good amount of money is going to solve all your problems. It's just not true at all. And then you've got like, you're playing for Chelsea, you're earning all that money, like you said. But I'm not playing for Chelsea. Yeah, I'm earning money kind of thing, but I'm not playing. I'm not earning how I want to earn it. for me it's a kick in the bollocks really and then you get you know you're waking up with like a hangover and then it's like fuck kind of last night's you know happiness has kind of disappeared and stuff and it's back to reality and then you're going like right I've got to go into training now and not kind of train so I'm not getting like that enjoyment out of work I mean I'm trying to put it into perspective for people so I mean imagine like you're going to an office job maybe and then you go into the office and it's not a place where you want to be because the people you're working with working for don't want you don't want you exactly don't want you but you're going in there you're putting on a brave face and you're trying to make the best of it how unhappy were you?

46:03yeah I was unhappy man yeah I mean listen I loved certain parts of it like outside of football I loved it but as soon as I was in the car on the way in I was like fuck But we always have high agency, right, over our lives. We always can decide how we react to certain situations. You know, no one else was making you go out and drink and have a great time and everything else, right? So why were you not able to just press stop on this and go, right, the best thing for me is to still be as professional as possible? I mean, I'd like to think I was, to be honest. Like, I know I was drinking and doing all that stuff that we've discussed, but I'd still go into training and I'd make sure I was as good as I could be for the lads that was my only way I could be professional around the place it wasn't you know in the go on and win the Europa League that year and I'd like to think you know me being a bit of a clown around the place in the day kind of helped them but But you got arrested and charged with drink driving No there was times where That's not taking control of your life No accountability is massive for me I mean that was a massive wake up sign for me like massive because i remember i was in the cell for i think it was 23 hours i was in it and you know they usually take two or three hours on things i think and i was in there and i was obviously like i'm sobering up and i'm in this cell and i'm thinking what the fuck are you doing mate this is not you at all it's not you as a person it's not how you want to be as a person like you need to get hold of yourself here you know and that's when i started seeking outside help with it all so i was then speaking to like you know psychologists and stuff saying listen like something's not right here this isn't me like i need kind of some direction some something some other focus to improve myself again and what was the advice coming back to you from these experts?

48:07Do you know, one thing that's always stuck in my head, what they've, what they said was, they say about spinning plates, I mean, it's quite, I think it's quite a well-known thing now, but, you know, if you're trying to spin so many plates, there's only so many kind of like plates you can spin at once. I was trying to spin so many at one time, it was just getting way too much. So then I think, you know, slowly like things started to like come together a bit and then everything got a bit lighter you know so i wasn't going out drinking as much i'd go out when i want to go out you know i wasn't doing maybe as rash things as what i was doing in the first six months would you mind sharing with us because i think it is so valuable for people to hear a former professional footballer talk about this um your mental health i think it's huge man i think mental health is probably more important than your physical health to be honest you know you've got you can be physically fit but if you're not mentally well you're gonna your body's gonna break down you know so i think priority every day of the week should be mental health 100 percent now mentally and where were you i'm not sure if i was in the deepest hole but i was it's the darkest i've ever felt 100 you know i've always been about i've always been the kind of personality that up like you know just get on with it brush things you know the typical like kind of man stuff but during that stage i just couldn't shift anything it was almost like you're drowning a bit and you forgot how to swim and with an upbringing that you've had did you feel it was your responsibility to deal with that alone yep and everyone else's they can't see it don't let them see it you can't hurt them i mean i feel like i get a bit upset everybody else it makes it a bit more harder for me when family's involved.

49:57That's what gets me. What do you mean? Just the responsibility of like, of making them possibly feel a bit shit as well. Do you feel you let them down? Yeah. So what, like, what did your mum and dad say when you came out of the cell? They're obviously disappointed, like any parent would be, do you know what I mean? But, I think they kind of knew as well, like I wasn't being myself. So I don't think they like, they didn't held it against me, because they knew like, I was going through, from outside it looked a bit shitty, but they were obviously close to me, so they kind of know it's shitty. A bit stupid, isn't it, Dan?

50:35Yeah, kind of let me go with it kind of thing. Did you tell them how hard it was? Not at first, no. Not at first, no. Because I didn't want to put any responsibility on them. I think when you're going through these things, you almost kind of bring everything in. And then... you know, and then it obviously gets too much, then it's just literally like, like, it's like a flood. I've never really been through that before. I've never had to deal with it before. So this was like my first low point. So again, I was just a bit like, what's going on here? Like, why do I feel like, you know, loads of questions.

51:16Why do I feel like this? Why do I feel like this? How do we deal with it? You know, it's something I've learned off again. It's mad. So if someone was listening to this then, Danny, what would you say would be the most effective first step if they recognised they're at that low point? What did you take? I mean, talking's massive. And feeling like you can trust the person you're talking to is massive. And just be kind to yourself, man. It's never just going to be simple. Things may have felt simple, but it's not always going to be that way. Just give yourself a break, man. Just give yourself a little pat on the back when you need it kind of thing.

51:52kindness is actually an important element to all this as well because while all this is going on you know there's memes on the internet about danny drink water you're being nicknamed danny drink beer danny drink cocktails i saw i remember seeing an espn article calling you the second worst premier league signing ever and it's like this is someone who's suffering with their mental health having a really difficult time and then the public pylon happens as well luckily for me I've never really focused on that. You know, I've never, even when it's been going good, I've never really focused on it. But, you know, you see it.

52:28It obviously chips away. I mean, I'm not a fan of mainstream media at all. I just think it's not a good thing. So I kind of stay away from it. But, you know, my mates look at it, my mates tell me about it. So, yeah, it's a bit like, just another thing, is it? One more thing to go with it, sound. Try and deal with that. Was there ever a point where you wanted just to talk like this almost. Yeah, 100%. Why didn't you? At the time, I don't think you feel like you can trust a lot of people. And even if you do, is it going to be then put out in the right way? I don't know if it is. Obviously, a moment came for a reset, right?

53:09Yep. Burnley. Yep. Now the question that people listening to this will be thinking is, hold on, really bad at Chelsea. He gets a chance to make a move. Goes to Burnley, who wanted him because they signed him. and he ends up getting in a scrap outside the nightclub. Is this guy not learning his lessons? Yeah, it does. It looks pretty bad, doesn't it? So there was a few clubs and I picked Berlin because I could drive from home 45 minutes in the car and I could be close to my son. You know, in hindsight now, I would have gone to another club, worked under a different manager, and the whole thing would have been totally different.

53:43But that's an easy thing to say, isn't it? I worked with Sean Dyche at Watford. He was the assistant at Watford at the time. when I didn't enjoy it at all. You know, and I've gone to Burnley just hoping it'd be different, but knowing that I was close to my son. So that was the main reason why I chose that club. And then going into it, I knew his teams were fully, like, fit. I knew they were machines. And I was like, right, exactly what I need. But it didn't work. It just did not work at all. Why not? You know, Sean Dash's got his own ways, kind of thing. You know, you've seen loads of players go under Sean Dyche and not be successful.

54:24I think I was just one of them. For what reason? Well, first of all, I wasn't playing. You know, he got me fit, but I wasn't playing. You know, he kind of sticks with his teams and it's really, really hard to get in. I'm in this similar position at Burnley Football Club than I was at Chelsea Football Club. So then, in my head, I'm thinking, what am I doing here when I can be at Chelsea doing the exact same thing? like what is going on bear in mind like some of Sean Dyches ways are wicked like off the pitch he's class off the pitch I like you know his meetings were brilliant you know he's got I don't know how long he's been doing it but he's got this real thing of like the mental side of stuff and you know he's class but then this I mean this Villa thing came up then you know and I could stay at home again and it's another reset happy days like I have to get this done so So did he kind of get rid of you because of the nightclub?

55:20No, no, he wanted me to stay. He wanted you to stay, yeah. And what happened with that nightclub incident? I can't remember much about it, to be honest. I just remember, again, I was in a nightclub drinking and then got into a little scuffle and then got, like, levered by a few of them. And then I was up in the morning and just my ankle. I just couldn't remember what happened. Went into the training ground, got it looked at and then I've obviously like, I think I've like fractured or something in my foot. Never happened to any bone in my body at all, so it's been like pretty solid. And I was like, shit, what's going on here?

55:59It was a big hiccup in what I wanted to be like a successful loan. But for me, it never felt like a make or break kind of moment that. It was a strange one, you know, because if it was, like I would have been told to leave by them. Like he wanted to keep me, which I can't understand to be honest, because he wasn't playing me. And I think we both knew all I needed was games. And like I said, that's when the Villa thing came up, which was massive. So you went to Villa? Went to Villa, yeah. And how did that go? Same. No, honestly, that's one thing I always... I mean, I don't think I've said this much, but I wish...

56:38That's one club I wish went different, Villa. Because from the moment I walked in, I was like... It surprised me. and it was, it felt almost similar to Leicester. So I was like, come on, like finally a club where I feel like I can kick on a bit. Manager was Dean Smith at the time, great, chucked me straight in, but you know, probably I wasn't nowhere near ready. I was miles off it, to be honest. Debus, stinking, two or three games later, obviously like still stinking. I'm out of games now for a year and a half, so the speed feels like way too quick and I'm thinking fuck like it's got away from me a bit here so I end up doing way too much physical work than what I should be doing like this is myself now trying to push myself a bit too much, changed my diet went vegan, pushed myself too much physically I'd go in quite early at training I'd swim, I'd do gym, I'd train with a team, I'd do more fitness on my own on the pitch and then that was like my day then whereas when I'm flying I go in training chill out train with a team chill out done do the odd gym session just to make sure my muscles are firing other than that that was me whereas now like I'm I'm doing way too much but I know I'm trying to catch up to something and I thought this is the way I need to do it when it wasn't so how did you end up headbutting your team mate that was after the Leicester game so I've gone back to King Power here it's away Villa Leicester and I think we get beat like 4-1 or something I didn't even get on the pitch and I'm like sat on the bench and I'm thinking fucking hell like this is a place where I used to dominate like week in week out here for quite a good period of time how painful was that that was yeah that was that was probably like football in terms where I thought I've just had enough of this why am I here and not even playing I've come back and I love football at Leicester and I've never got it back since I left there which you know is partly my fault and I thought oh I'm going back to where I love football you know not starting fine when I get on the pitch fucking buzzing I'll be flying all over the place didn't get on and then anyone in football will tell you that the day after a game, if you've not played, they are absolute head loss sessions.

59:15So they are where, like nobody's played minutes and it's, you know, just to get some movement into your legs and it's just not nice at all as any player. So then we're in a game and then me and the lad end up having like a little argument and then it kind of carries on and, you know, he just tells me to shut up a few times too many and then next minute, you know, he's on the floor kind of thing. And as soon as I did that, I felt like shit. Not because of what I did, but because I knew, like, I just knew I reacted to something where I didn't need to react to it. I should have just walked away. I just let him say his peace and walk away.

59:53Where I was in, like, what I felt like was such a rut that I thought, fuck no, mate, you're getting it. I should have just walked off. Should have just walked off. Have you ever done anything like that before? I mean, I've had fights and stuff, but I've never, like, I've never been told to shut up. two or three times and then reacted to it, you know, I'd just like say something back and then whatever happens, happens kind of thing. But I'd never, no, I'd never do that. I'd never do that. From what you said though, correct me if I'm wrong, but it almost feels at this point like you're almost seeing your career slip away now.

1:00:26Oh yeah, massively. Oh, it was going and I could feel it going. And I think that's why I was trying so hard to do all them extra bits, to try and crawl it back. Yeah. And the hard thing was as well is I knew Dean Smith was, not counting on me but I knew we thought you know we're going to get you back here we'll get you back so then you've got that additional complex layer of feeling like you're letting people down again yeah yeah I think I have yeah well I have in the background now knowing about it and then even that's when Covid came so literally the Covid period and the season gets extended and my loan contract runs out and I'm at this point I'm saying to the gaffer and that like obviously listen I really appreciate everything like sorry I kind of let you down but like I'm grateful I want you to know like I really appreciate and he's like what do you mean?

1:01:16I can you know go back to Chelsea no no like we want you to stay so I'm like what? what do you mean you want me to stay? what for? and he's like what do you mean what for? got like eight massive games left or something it was this is it's a reset again it's a massive opportunity so I was like Gafferman I'm just no I just don't want to let you down again anyway we ended up having a conversation ended up signing the extension and that was even for me i was like fucking hell that's that's good that like i really appreciate that like let's see what we can make of it then what did you make of it well covid came and i i felt for the first time in two years i was on an even playing field with the rest of the lads for fitness because i got myself into great shape and no one had played games now i think for like two or three months was it so i felt like fucking hell like mint and then we had a couple of friendlies west brom felt really good did really good and i felt you know what drinks buzzing made the right decision here thanks gaffer sorted me right out i'm back leicester away first half of the game really good dominated again hamstring goes fucking hamstring goes i know and it's like what fucking and then and then it's like what chance have i got here like what chance i actually got and it was like a grade two six weeks out and then i stayed at villa stayed at villa it was like the club were great got back fit i think the lads had only played one game because it was such a tricky time when it joined covid first training session in with the boys boom hamstring again same leg and i'm like fuck's sake what's going on what actually is going on do you know when you just I just couldn't feel like I could catch a break anywhere.

1:03:00I've got me trying to get my career back on to where I need to get it or feel like I want to get it. And I'm just getting injured. So what can you do? What can you actually do? I literally felt like my hands were just, everything was just out of my hands at that point. So what did you do? Went back to Chelsea.

1:03:23Went back to Chelsea and then went on loan to Turkey. Cas and Pascha, which was again brand new for me. So I'm going. I need to, this is my last chances. I need to work at it. Went, did the fitness test fine. Went down in the gym the day after to do some fitness stuff on myself and my calf goes. My calf goes. Oh man. And again, it's that thing again, like it's out of my hands. Like I've tried literally, I've tried everything. When was that famous challenge on that kid that then went viral as well when you were playing for the under 23s? Was that right towards the end at Chelsea? So I think that was before the person passed your loan, yeah.

1:04:07I think so. That was just frustration again? I mean, yeah, I can't remember much about it. I just remember him making a big tackle on me and I'm just thinking fucking little shit. Kind of just lashed out a bit. But again, you know, it was like a little kick. Like, whoopee-doo, man. Whoopee-doo. But then, you know. You're a story at this point. Exactly. exactly and you know it's an easy target and that's absolutely fine no problem but don't think I'm not like I'm just going to take getting splattered by some little kid like piss off just because I'm going through it a bit I ain't taking that so how does it feel having gone through that with us for the last little while yeah it sounds a bit sore doesn't it you know it's not been easy it sounds like for someone it would be tough and this is a thing about expressing yourself like when you're going through it if you're expressing yourself with someone like you can talk to or trust it does sound like it'd be hard work when you internalise things which I was doing I didn't get it myself but then when I spoke to someone it was like fuck that does sound like a hard time and like you know careers are careers I mean football's a short one and they do come to an end but not being able to like kind of go through it how you'd want to go through it it's kind of tough to take as well, I suppose.

1:05:27So how do you feel that you're almost in that position, but you're walking away from the sport now? So what have you learned that would have served you well from when you left United, left Leicester, now you're leaving football completely? I mean, I'd say, listen, it's not just about your physical state. You need to prioritise your mental state. That's probably where you should be focusing on. if you look at like all the people or players or even other sports you know the drivers or anything that's like peak they all have like a really good or what i'd i'd look at and say like mental state you know like you know they all seem quite content or they always have some kind of stability or like balance or they're in kind of the right place mentally so i just think if young players can get that at a young age that would be absolutely crucial for them in the long term and are you at a point now where you can sit here and go bloody hell you know best part of a 20-year professional career and i won the premier league or do you sit here and go that chelsea period dominates my thoughts i i let myself down on too many occasions where are you at today yeah i probably start with like you've let yourself down kind of things somewhere down the line a few times but folk made drinks like you've you've played for England you've won the Premier you won the FA Cup you know you've played in Charity Shields like you've done great like you've literally done great like this is this is me coming from you know playing football on the estate as a kid wanting to be this professional footballer like I've done it and I think now that's the thing whereas you know if I had the same mindset maybe six years ago I would be like I've not even had a shit career but I've not like I know now I've not I've done things that most lads only dream of you know and taking the medals out of it you know I've travelled the world like maybe not seen what I'd like to see with football because you know you're on a schedule but there's so many more benefits as well to winning trophies life experiences everything you know the people you meet yeah I mean I've done class I'm not that one what are the lessons you're going to take then from that incredible set of experiences into this next chapter of your life?

1:07:45Well, I'd like to think again, it's helped me grow. So I'm a better person from everything. If I can help other people doing it or on their way through, just a bit of perspective on stuff. And, you know, I'd like to be able to do that. Well, listen, mate, thank you so much for coming on this podcast. Absolute pleasure. People have watched this unfold not actually knowing the true story. Yeah. And for you to come on and share it in the way you have, it's helpful for people who didn't know, but it's probably more helpful for people who are still to come. Thank you. Hopefully it will help. Top man.

1:08:18Thank you so much for coming and sharing. I was looking at that, I loved it.

1:08:25Damien. Jake. That was a really hard listen at times actually, wasn't it? Brutal, yeah. I think whilst I have tremendous sympathy for Danny, there's also an element of frustration as well for him that there was a number of opportunities and moments where it's a sliding doors moment. It could have been very different for him. I think he had such a great youth career at United. He then had an incredible time at Leicester. It's obvious that the damage to him in that early period at Chelsea was so great that, of course, he's responsible. No one gets by on the wheel of a car, drunk, without taking responsibility for that.

1:09:09And that is an act that is a horrendous thing to do. But obviously his mental health and his struggles and his lack of self-worth and his darkness was such that it went on for a long period of time and almost just didn't allow him to kind of, to see what he used to be before he was in this place. Does that make sense? Yeah, definitely. I think it's a really good example of when somebody's identity gets wrapped up into who they think they are. So you take away the idea of Danny the footballer, who's left Danny the man wasn't necessarily somebody that by his own admittance he'd invested much time in developing and spending time with so therefore he's left with a vacuum and he's filling it with all the activities almost of like a young adolescent boy the adolescent that he'd never been allowed to be because he was pursuing a career at Manchester United at the time and all of this of course compounded by his admission that there's no one harder on him than himself so you know the self the negative self-talk then the kind of self-loathing at this point clearly was was huge and you saw him tear up when talking about the impact on his family and the sort of the sense of shame that would have been wrapped up in this as well but i think the other really important thing is we need this to be a conversation where people also have empathy for the situation that he was in you know this is a guy that was struggling in a really bad place and that's not to make excuses for some of the stuff that he did but it's to put into context some of other stuff that went on one of my favorite theories that is is the work of a guy called kurt lewin a famous social psychologist that said our behavior is a function of both our personality and the environment that we're in so we can maybe look at the personality element separately but the environment stuff will always have a big part of it so the easiest way of explaining it is that when you cut somebody up in traffic it's because you're in a rush when somebody does it to you we label them a dick or the rude or abrasive or whatever and I think it's easy to look from the outside in and make judgments on Danny's personality whereas when what we've tried to do here is step back and look at the environment that you see a guy that has been isolated from his dream these are all quite brutal experiences that then shape how you do behave and how you do react at those key moments and I think just hearing that is invaluable for us to be able to have as you say greater empathy absolutely well we wish him the very best in retirement absolutely yeah i think it's really brave that he's chosen to come here and share something about the incredible success of his career but equally the pitfalls that uh he fell into so there we go like i told you you would perhaps see a sighted danny drinkwater you hadn't seen before and i would love to know what you've thought of that episode there are only two things that you can do to help us out you know the first one is to share and spread these podcasts to get more people listening to them and the second thing is to just hit the subscribe button it takes a few moments but it means we can grow this podcast channel and attract even more people to come on this platform and share their stories remember remain humble curious and chase your own version of high performance thanks for listening

1:12:32Thank you.

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