David Gandy: People underestimated me (E231)

0:28Watch it early on the High Performance App. Performance app and discover the brand new world of High Performance Plus. Details and loads of frequently asked questions are on our website right now. Hi there, you're listening to High Performance, the award-winning podcast that unlocks the minds of some of the most fascinating people on the planet. I'm Jake Humphrey and alongside Professor Damien Hughes, we learn from the stories, successes and struggles of our guests, allowing us all to explore, be challenged and to grow. Here's what's coming up today.

1:31So welcome to High Performance, David Gandhi, a man who turned the male modeling industry on its head. One of the most recognized models on the planet, a man who's been at the top of his game for over 20 years. But who actually is the man behind the good looks? The insecurities, the ambition, the hard work, the rejections, the lessons. It's all on its way in this fantastic episode of the High Performance podcast. And you can actually get even more from David Gandhi on the High Performance app, he will actually share with us the secrets to his daily gym routine. So you can find out what he does to stay in such incredible shape.

2:08If you want that extra free content, then just download the High Performance app right now. Right, let's do it. David Gandy on High Performance.

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4:02David thank you very much for joining us thank you for having us guys what is high performance to you high performance is seeing something as maybe a success to people whether how you gauge that is is up to you but I always Winston Churchill said you know success is defined by him from going into failure to failure without lack of enthusiasm that to me is high performance if you can keep doing that and we all know even on a daily basis you people think of a failure a failure of a business or financial everything else but there's failures every day and you have to sort of overcome those and still high perform and still try and be the best and it's problem solving and i think if you can still have that enthusiasm and keep on going and going and going and you ever meet you know some of the most successful people with like a high performance is they're just overcoming failures, failures, problems in the way, but they conceive fair enough in the future to go, and I'm going to keep plugging away at this.

5:03And to me, that sums up so much of my career. It's just things have gone wrong, but it's still belief and enthusiasm to high perform that you know you're going to get there in the end. So that's kind of what it is to me. So if we rewind as many years as you like, when did you first realise that actually success is keeping on going forwards despite challenges, despite struggles, despite failure? Probably learnt it at school. This is not going to be a big thing. I was bullied at school and all these different things, but I didn't quite fit into school. Didn't fit in with the people, all these different things.

5:38Certain years. What way? I can't really tell you, to one point. But it put me almost, I say, put me in good stead because I didn't worry about anyone else. I didn't worry about what they said. I didn't join, you know, try and fitting. I just kept myself to myself and not trying to follow the crowd or do the same thing. And I realised that was what people call now is a little bit disruptive because that's basically what I did in the fashion industry and what I'm trying to do now. So let's fast forward a little bit to when you decided to eventually go to university and then promptly walk away from completing your university degree when you got the opportunity to be a model.

6:16I wonder whether that disruptor mindset was present then as well. and I think it'd be interesting for people how you came to what is a huge life decision when you're that sort of age to quit university. By that point, and I had done, I don't know, two and three quarter years at university and it's madness, I had a couple of modules to go. I was like, I'm out and people are like, how are you out? You brought a couple to stay. And I was like, no, there is an opportunity here and I'm going to take it. And that's when I got the contract with a model agency. I wasn't the right look at the time. I wasn't the right build.

6:46I was very green into the fashion industry. Didn't have a clue how it worked. but there was an intriguing element to it and then started to observe and i always say it's five years of observing i didn't get many jobs um i was doing okay but it wasn't particularly what i wanted to do but i could see where it could lead so that observation i was looking at the female models and we all knew the female was the female supermodels you know you don't need to know the surnames you got you know chrissy cindy naomi and i was like you don't even need to know their surnames this is how but you couldn't name a male model and i was a why is this and i was intrigued by it you know i'm curious of why this was and you had big models at the time that you wouldn't know names of but we knew them in the industry and they would get to like a certain ceiling and then that was it almost like everyone went oh that's as far as you can go you can't go any further than that so that's why a lot of models were then going to acting or music or something else so my curious I was like, well, how did the female models do it?

7:47And I was very fortunate to work with Naomi and a couple of others. And I asked them. And they said, almost some ways, you know, Christy Turniton sort of came. And I could see she came with not an entourage, but just a couple of members of good teams, PRs. And I said, ah, this is a business. This is a brand. You are a brand. You've built, you know, that name is, when you just say Christy, I know me, you instantly know it. so it's that recognizable and why hasn't a guy done this um but you need a platform to do that you needed to you know be known outside the industry yeah so what were guys doing then that was different to that they weren't running it as a business and they were they didn't have the prs they didn't have the managers they they hadn't they had agencies but they didn't have a brand they didn't name you know so we then got light blue with dr and gabbana there's a whole story how we got that.

8:41Go on, tell us. I said to my agent, Tandy Enson, I said, I'm out. I'm done. I don't want to do this anymore. I'm going to do something else. At what stage was that? That was a stage when actually I was doing a lot of commercial catalogue work. You are travelling the world, you're earning good money. But it wasn't what I wanted to do. So how many years in are you at this point? Four and a half, five. Right. And what was that not fulfilling then? anything I wanted to do in like the industry, it was, it was, you weren't working with the best creatives, you weren't leaving any form of legacy, you were seeing these big campaigns, you weren't part of it, you weren't working with, not insulting the photographers, the greatest photographers, and that's what I wanted to do, and I always had in my head, you know, I looked at the Levi's guys, or, you know, that was, you remember the Levi's commercials, and I was like, imagine if you could be in one of those, like, commercials, and that probably would have been enough, you know, to leave that iconic commercial, and I said, that's what I want to do, and she said to me, okay, She said, guys would kill to be in your position of what you're earning and what you're doing at the moment.

9:42I was like, okay, but I see a different pattern here. I think we can go bigger. Now, a lot of agents at that point would have gone, you're mad. No, we're not trying to rock the boat here. Let's continue. She's earning her percentage. They're earning good money. I'm earning good money. She went, okay, I'm cancelling all of your clients as of tomorrow. You're not going to work for anyone because we need to change the perception of how you are in the industry from catalogue commercial to editorial fashion and starting branding. And that's exactly what she did. Scary? No, because I didn't have anything to lose because I didn't want to do it anyway.

10:17Wow. Can I go back and just explore that first observation you had of male models and not household names and you're seeing females. So you've left university. You've gone into an industry that, by your own confession, you don't know a lot about and you're observing it. that willingness to almost pick yourself against these household names these supermodels as opposed to just seeing it as how do i survive in this industry how do i get by is quite an interesting dynamic and i'm interested as to what gave you the confidence to look that far ahead rather than just look to make a living no idea it's once i mean i look back now and go what were you doing like that it's like to have but i didn't have anything to lose and i think that was uh it's different now like once you you get to a point and you've earned the money and you've built your brand to then take a chance of losing that you're losing a lifestyle to me i didn't i was traveling the world but i didn't have it's not the lifestyle that you wanted it but now i you know i've got responsibilities that's how i didn't have responsibilities it was a lovely time it's one of my favorite times and you could sort of imagine you can do my my whole point to my early 20s even late 20s was like what can you do it was a gorgeous thing there were you had options and that still to me was an option to go and do something else but it was near tandy who said and everyone's saying oh you're so amani i remember this amani amani amani and tanya went you're dolce and gabbana you're dolce and gabbana forget amani forget everything else you're dolce and i was like all right and i'm gonna listen to you um and then she orchestrated this uh um there was a party for mariano vanco photographer and dominico and stephano were going to be there so this was a party and tanya said you're going to come to pretend to pick up an airline ticket you've got to have to travel tomorrow this is a complete orchestrated story so i went there and um i said hi mariana thanks for i'm good and there was a ticket that was produced i said thanks so much so let me just go and say hello to you know come say hello to dominica and stephano i said hi guys how are you and they looked and you could see that it's went okay week after i was on the campaign to do the campaign out in LA with Stephen Mizell.

12:26So we did the campaign and then we went back to go and do the show in Milan. And then Heidi called me, my agent, said there's a negotiation started with fragrance. And a fragrance is the pinnacle of what you want as a model. Done what it is, it's Dolce. And we then found out it was light. Well, I didn't know it was light blue. It was light blue, Mario Testino. And then from there, that was the start of everything. So can I ask you about the world of modelling? Because my only frame of reference for that is the film, like The Devil Wears Prada or something like that. Yeah, I don't follow. Right.

13:03But I'm interested. I know nothing about the culture of it. I wonder if you could explain a bit about that to us. I think there's something about the fashion industry is that mystery is the appeal to it. I think people can get wrapped up in the culture. I've never, again, I'm going to say this now, I never really fitted in school, never really fitted in university. never really felt like fitting in the fashion industry. So I very much bring my individual person within the industry. And I think you can delve as much into that as you want, or you can sort of stay quiet. I always say, hopefully people say to me, you're quite grounded.

13:42You're back to your kind of Essex roots. And I say, yeah, that's the kind of way I've been brought up. So it's an incredible industry and that's why i think there was a fascination to me to be more involved in it um but i always got to a point where instead of the industry using you which i think it does to a lot of people is i wanted to use the industry and be in complete control and that's where i saw it i didn't want to be i saw i saw a lot of people who were told where to be what to do what to wear how to do their hair how to where they should be and i was like you're not in control of anything so again to turning a complete business just turning into a business model so when we got light blue we then that was it it was everyone knew me they didn't know my name they knew me as the guy in the white swimming jumps so then we started to build a team pr the agencies and and to then build the name um into a brand but you must have had to sell like the grand vision like what were you thinking at that point were you thinking i i want the david gandy brand to be here in five years or 10 years or next week next month thought yes so i mean we always i mean i always work in my head anyone from tell people five year or ten year plans um but that was i think the underlying thing was build a brand build a name be in control of it so my thought was why do you want to work 350 days a year for different brands earning this amount of money when you can work for two brands work for six days a year on quadruple the money that was literally my logical thing people yeah but that you men can't get that you can't get exclusive contracts so that's what that's what the female models were doing yeah yeah of course they worked for and you know cindy crawford said you know i want a marriage i don't want a one night stand with a brand so you work with a brand and that's where my you know longevity with uh mns dolce yubana jaguar vitabiotics um mns that all came about longevity longevity um i'm working with them working on working with them on a three-year a four-year plan um that those days i mean we still do that but if you look at those days have completely changed now like talking to brands about longevity above six months i mean they're just about social the next next next next and i try and go and explain to a brand look this has to be a two-year three-year collaboration so would you take us into those meetings then because i'm interested in how you how you change minds and get people to invest in that longer term relationship some of its management who approach anyway so you know vitbiotics was um sort of a meeting that came about where they were walking out of a meeting and they'd just come out of a meeting saying we want to go we want to move away from just using sports people to more lifestyle i walked in had been using wellman for a long time it says on thing i've been using wellman since i was 20 not a lie it's actually genuine and i said it's nice to meet you i'm you know David, your products are great.

16:38I really like respect. I use your proteins. I use Wellman since I was 20. And of course, that just came about and almost light bulbs went off like around the room to management. They went, oh, hang on a minute. Let's just go back and we'll have a quick conversation. And they said, how do you see it? And I said to them, I said, look, I love what you do. I would love to go on and help you with the creative. I think that can be improved. And I think you like your lifestyle, you know, if you're selling a lifestyle, you need to sell it in shoots and creative. That's what I do. that's what we do to bring our team and that then we've collaborated together and we've seen that you know women do extremely extremely well hence you know we've been going six years with them yeah the biggest thing for me was of course there's still the connotations about a male model most people the only as you said you don't have anything you don't know much about the fashion industry about the culture about the people but often the conceptions are are completely wrong like you know to you know being that sort of zoolander model that's what you're seen as like not much of a brain being told what to do and all those different things so when i i had to when i walked into meetings of course i would hear it people would go what we're meeting the guy in the white pants this guy so that was i was like right so in the meeting i had to straight away change that within the first five minutes so there's a lot of people listening to this that may be battling stereotypes in different ways it might be race gender disability religion yours is the the stereotype of the dumb male model so how do you go about challenging that stereotype well i've always sort of said you you uh you take on the doubters by being successful that's that's that's the biggest hit on anyone anyone can insult you no one can insult me as much as I can insult myself by the way like that's I'm my biggest critic I can imagine there's people listening to this that think that in many ways you you've won the genetic lottery you've got a distinctive look but I'm interested in the kind of self-talk that you engage in do you see that that there's an element of look or do you beat yourself up for what you haven't done or what you can't do I didn't beat myself up I don't think I hope I worked my strengths I always sort of said to people you work within there are still limits to what you can do there's a lot of guys and I don't think I don't look in my room and go yeah you've got it it's what it takes because there are guys in every agency that are better looking better models into the fashion industry more than me always have been the difference was I just did it a bit differently I ran it as a business and had the name of the branding that's the way I did it differently and I said yeah definitely not the best model definitely not the best looking, never ever thought I was you know for Wellwear now is my team which is my new clothing brand my team literally have to force me to go and like model for my own stuff because I want to give the opportunity I think there are better models that can do it than me and that I've kind of always thought that so it's always the business creative side that I've probably loved more than I did you know more than actually being in front of the camera and I keep trying to come back do you have doubts about how you look or not you know you can probably call that um and anything is like there's an imposter syndrome I think in anything I think I've always had that I think a lot of people having a lot of successful if you talk to successful people they've had it but I always try and put a positive on something and said you should have it and they were what do you mean by that i said because if you have not got imposter syndrome and you're you are not challenging yourself if you're sitting there every day going i'm very comfortable i know what i'm doing and that's a lot of people is absolutely fine not for me i'm like right i've done this what's that next where am i going from there put yourself in a situation that's kind of scary and i've always kind of done that today's putting yourself in going what on earth am i doing here probably why don't really think you know i go to the British Fashion Award and go, what are you doing here on the red carpet?

20:47Someone's going to pull you aside and go, yeah, you've had a good 20 years. Like, let's forget this. But it's all those situations. And that goes to, like, challenging other things in life as well, like, I don't know, powerboat racing that I've done and, you know, racing in the milieu and milieu and all these different things. I'm not having a clue what I'm doing there. But it's a massive challenge and it scares the living daylights out of me. but the but the feeling i get from you know sort of taking you know sort of achieving that is worth it there's always a bit of you know a reward at the end for a couple of days have you got comfortable with people having an opinion about how you look how you stand the color of your eyes the waves in your hair the size of your pecs it's like that's what the fashion industry is like you are just standing there going judge me yeah you have to have a thick skin but you realize again you know i'm now we have done creatives and i i have to cast models i've been in the worst castings ever you know i'd like this and i probably overcompensate you know i've been into where they look at your book they don't even speak to you and then they close the book and hand it to you and you walk out never ever going to be like that and when i say i'm like you're coming and they're like literally models are with me for half an hour because i'm chatting to them again to know them but they have to be an ambassador for my brand and i might like them and i might think they're great ambassador but for that creative at that moment i have to visually you have to assess them you know is that the best person for the job and you're assessing someone on the way they look if it isn't within the industry the people at home looking at the magazines or the snipes on social media you know let's be totally honest people look at you and I think Born Gorgeous had a really nice, easy life.

22:29People took his photo and paid him millions of pounds for the privilege. It's so easy to have an opinion about David Gandhi, right? Yeah, I suppose so. But it happens like that. But it can happen like that. There are people taken off the street, and the next week they're shooting the Calvin Klein campaign or the Marnie campaign. And it continues. They don't have to work. And we should celebrate that, right? Human nature should go in. Isn't that incredible that life can deal with that for someone? Would I have, maybe I wouldn't have liked, but a slightly easier, you know, going into the industry.

22:58Yeah, I would have loved that. It wasn't the funnest five years, you know, and there were constantly things where you just thought you were going to get. One of them, I got the Ralph Lauren campaign and then I was on the way to the airport and they cancelled me. And you had your, you're on the way to the campaign, you're on the way to the airport. And I said, sorry, we're going different direction. That, to come from that high to that low, you just went, my God. And to pick yourself up. To then go, okay. and I actually remember just like getting back home sitting on the stairs and going what am I doing here like this is tell us about that because that sounds unbelievably brutal well that's something you have to get used to as well in the industry there's lots of examples like that I did a I won't mention the name but this is actually when I was even had sort of a name and they brought me in to do a show and I didn't fit the clothes clearly didn't fit the clothes too big yeah I was always too big for a lot of stuff they used to you know Tom Ford used to go here's a big guy and I was like, am I really that big?

23:52I'm a 40 chest and a 32 waist. I'm not big. I just criticise the industry and go, look, maybe your sample size is bigger than 36 or 38 and a normal person will wear them. And so, yeah, I, again, put the clothes on. They said, yeah, it doesn't matter. Just get them on the runway. And then they looked at me and I looked at myself and they went, yeah, you can't go on. Literally pulled me off runway. Go in front of everyone, in front of all the guys. I'm saying, where are you going? I went, I'm going home. So what do you do at that moment, though? I don't know, you can have a gin tonic.

24:25Which I like as a strategy. But I'm interested in, how do you then pick yourself up to put yourself back in? Okay, so I always say try and turn it on a positive. This was for a big brand. So to me, I would have walked in that show and you then would have been associated with that brand. To me, I was taken away, not working with that brand. There's other brands that are going to work with you on that. So if you're doing that brand, it takes you away from working with a lot of other brands. So positive, I'm not doing that for other opportunities with other brands. There was one time we were out in LA and we went to, I'm not name dropping here, but I'm going to.

25:02I just shot the makeup with her makeup, Scarlett Johansson for Dolce. And we then got flown to LA to do an alcohol brand with Scarlett Johansson. I didn't realize at the time and they didn't realize that we just were. So we got to LA and she said, David, have you seen the Dolce pictures? I have, they're amazing. And you suddenly had this like loud room went a little bit quiet and someone had picked up where we'd worked together before. So there was like, okay, so you go off to make up, David, why don't you just go and sit in that corner over there for a second? I was like, okay, we sit there for an hour and no one's saying, you're going, should I be getting makeup, getting hair or anything?

25:36And they go, no, no, just stay there. And you realize when no one talks to you in the fashion industry, that something's wrong. You go, okay. So I sit there and go, literally waiting for my phone to call and it full calls. I was like, oh, there we go. Hi, hi. Hi, David. yeah they've pulled you because you've done the campaign with scarlet and said well but they're not going to pull scarlet of course they went no i went okay i said um what's happening with pay and they said well therefore you get full pay don't have to do the campaign i was okay i went i'm going to take a couple of days off went to uh hire a very fast car not fastest car went up to carmel and nice weekend got paid and didn't and not associated with that brand i saw it as a bonus and that sounds a bit egotistical and a bit sort of, there's not a negative behind that to me.

26:23I was like, yeah, absolutely great, saw the campaign, it was shit. Glad I wasn't part of it. It was all win-win. And I always say try and turn something into a positive for everyone. In that instance, it's kind of easy to turn it into a positive, right, because you've got paid for doing something that you didn't need to do and you've come out well. There will definitely be times where it's harder to try and find a positive. And I know you do a lot of work for men's mental health campaigns so I'm sure you understand where I'm going with this like how challenging has it been at times for your mental health?

26:58Yeah I mean it's I've always said that there have been dark times and I don't think it's much to do with being in the fashion industry though I think that's just me it can be a very lonely you are traveling the world I said sometimes you're going for days with that really. Sometimes you're going from job to job, but you're going, you might go from London, then you're going to Barcelona, and then you're doing a job, then you go from Barcelona to somewhere else, but not just to get to another location. And this is like a three or four day trip to get somewhere. And if you don't know anyone, you're going from airport to sitting in an airplane seat, to going to a hotel, to going back to an airplane.

27:34You're not really speaking to anyone for days. I think it's quite weird. It's a strange concept. But now if you speak to my other half, you'll realize that I don't talk that much. And she says that. How's your day? Yeah, it's fine. You know, that's basically very men as my father was. Her father's the same. You know, men are very much like that. I think you can be quite solitary. And there's a difference between lonely and loneliness. And I was never lonely. And I used to enjoy that. And actually, my other half has had to understand that I need time to myself. And that's with the dog and that can be with the children.

28:12But there is a time where I like, and she doesn't understand that. You know, she's at a party. She engulfs being at parties, events, being around people. To me, it drains me. And I need to be the exact opposite. And she used to laugh at me. She goes, what did you do last night when we were first dating? I went to cinema. Who with? Myself. Where did you go? when I went to dinner with who? Myself. I was very much and that's probably going back to school when I did I was very comfortable and I think you should be it worries me if people aren't comfortable in their own company. I always think there's something wrong that they have to have other people's opinions or other people to build their ego and I didn't need that.

28:54So people criticising building ego I never particularly needed that. But you have a dark time so how have they when you talk about a darkness how does that manifest itself and what have you learned? Yeah, I mean, probably, I mean, if you kind of think about it, when I'm working, I do have so many projects on the go. I drive people around the bend. When I'm finishing, not even finishing one, there's another idea, and there's another idea, and there's something else I want to do. There's loads of stuff going on. And I've realized I need to do that. It's when you slow down sometimes. because in my 20s and 30s it was just I want opportunities and work I was it wasn't selfishness but there was a point where I'm going to take hopefully every opportunity everything that comes about and I don't want to have to worry about anyone else during that time it was me and I need to build this career and it's put me in good stead to be able to you know ease off a little bit now and be with my family and my girls and not worry so much still got a million projects on but not to have to travel in and i loved it so but if that stopped then that's my mind would start you start probably thinking and you always have to think is this my last campaign is this my last job is this is it you know i'm gonna get those thoughts yeah yeah absolutely because you never know you walk if everything you have you have a good and you think is this the last one is this the last time i'm going to work for this brand but you then realize that you just that's why I suppose I have many projects and many working with many brands because if one you know and you do stop eventually every collaboration everything eventually ends but you then just have to work on the next thing so that's why I sort of built it for my mind you know my mindset in some ways um but yeah it's um I don't think the industry is because I'd never really listened to them it was a thing of when the industry and I was I wasn't a big guy when I was 19 you know 20 21 when I went into the industry in year 22 um but you know i was bigger and then i just built i got bigger and bigger because i took over the gym was my reset was my escape so of course if you're competitive then you want to get bigger and you want to get muscular and you want to build and i always say that that you know i was always training before and they go well you you know you have to be fit you don't have to be fit in the industry at all you don't have to have the you know a great body but in my mindset that made me i've always just done it for myself today's high performance podcast is in association with ag1 and actually the last couple of weeks has been a great reminder to me about why ag1 is so important for me because i've been on the road the fact i've been living out of a suitcase i haven't had my routine means actually i have missed taking my ag1 in the mornings and i've honestly noticed the difference i've had a drop in energy i haven't felt great because for me ag1 is my daily nutritional insurance it's good for my energy.

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34:21so can you tell us a little bit then david around one of our favorite phrases we heard from we interviewed maro itoji the england rugby player and at his club saracens they've got a sign or an acronym stitched into the back of their shirts that stands for the shit that no one sees so internally within their world they value all the stuff that isn't in the spotlight it's the work that goes on behind the scenes and i'm interested can you give us a bit of an insight then into the shit that no one sees for you looking so good doing these great modeling campaigns and all the other things around the brand we've probably touched on it you know about how you have we've strategically had to work at that and that's the meetings and the shit and you know and no one no one hears about the campaigns that you got pulled from or the ones you got cancelled from last minute that's a bit shit but if you make it positive you make it positive there's always been a bit of a side to me they talk about in in fact in in the fashion industry as well yes you are very fortunate to look the way you do um and have the body you do but it's not attainable they say you know are you creating images and isn't attainable so if i talk about in the physical form i go hang on wait a minute i've gone from being a chubby teenager to quite skinny you know i shot up to like six you know six two six three so it's quite skinny i didn't like that for my mental health i want to be bigger so i got bigger and every evening when probably everyone else is having dinner i'm at the gym so i put you know even now when my two girls i put the girls to bed half past nine i'm at the gym i get home at half past 10 i cook dinner i'm still working my mobile phone still on all throughout this whole business and that's what i've been doing for 22 years so no one understands that no one sees you doing that and of course now with social a lot of people do put it on but i'm quite private in that respect so no one sees the work that goes into it um and it's still a fascination in people when they say how do you get the body you do and you You go, it's hard work.

36:25It's just training. You know, that's all it is. But I know a lot of, you know, female models, Victoria's Secret models and all those things, their training was incredible. They trained like athletes to get to where they are, you know, to get the physique, you know, the physique of what they have. When I'm saying you train like athletes, you really, really do. So there's a lot of shit that goes on behind things. But again, like in any business, you don't uh you don't hear about it you you see the good side of it and people think about the good side when someone comes to me and a guy says how do i get to a young model how do i get to where you you've got to and i it's an i said look it's an impossible thing for me to tell you but i've been doing this for 21 22 years and you know i the one that always gets people is as well i didn't really have a bit you know a big job for dolce for six years and you can see them switch off they're like switches okay six years not waiting six years i'm so i'm not saying you have to wait six years but that's how long it took me that's perseverance so you know you have to believe in what your that my thought process of where i wanted to be was correct um and you can see like so many young people now like oh yeah no i when do you think well i want to go and be in supermodel tomorrow okay not gonna happen but i have to be realistic so um yeah so it's um you don't but that goes as i said in every business and every ceo i've met and every successful person athlete they've all been through you know you don't see the shit at the end of the day you don't see no one sees the hard work of a senior of a successful person of course there are shortcuts right and you're now in your 40s i don't i don't know whether you have fear about aging and looking different or whether that excites you because it moves you into a whole nother sphere um i don't I don't worry too much about it.

38:21But I've been fortunate enough that starting, I don't rely. Yes, I rely on looks, but not as much as I probably used to. And it's just aging. You know, it's just I try my best. Also, if you look at a lifestyle that is traveling the world on airplanes, not much sleep for 22 years, it's not, nothing, you know, is good about that for aging or for skin or anything else. So, yeah, I believe in growing old gracefully. I think I look all right to add kids. Happens to that age. But the kids is actually a relevant point here because I think, you know, I like the fact that when people think, oh, David Gandhi looks unattainable, you'll say, no, that's not true.

39:06If you put the time and the work and have the patience, you know, you can build muscle, right? Anyone can. That's basically it. But now you could happily have a filler here or a Botox there or an injection here or there to make your face look different. Would you do that? Or is actually the sort of the honesty of this more important than that? Because there is a sort of something toxic about that, particularly for young people looking at those in the public eye and seeing people that make that decision. i think the foot of the story someone put this way without going too far with botox and all those different things is these days is people ask me how long to get ready to red carpet i'm literally 20 minutes now that's not both things i don't have time i'm no rough i'm very fortunate over the years built a wardrobe but you know for young people to look at these people on the red carpet nowadays and the same stars the amount of work that's gone into that's a team of stylists that's a grooming team that happens weeks before um you know that event i'm sort of more genuine like yeah i take i might get a suit made but you know very rarely do anymore so how long to take you literally 20 minutes because that's just a lifestyle change and then that's but i've always kind of been that way in some ways it's like i i don't have the time that's not that doesn't interest me whatsoever and i see this sort of society that everyone's worried about what everyone else is doing what everyone else looks like where everyone is aging what everyone else is doing and following exactly the same as everyone else like globalization and fashion has led to this everyone kind of dressing the same a bit um and it was it was enlaw roosevelt who once said you know great minds talk talk about ideas uh medium minds talk about events small minds talk about other people now you can adapt that a little bit now yeah but everything i wanted in the company in in my you know in everything i've thought about is ideas i don't really care what anyone else is doing i don't care what what are the ideas what are the ideas to if there's problems how can we solve them that's the big thinking of everything and that's what people don't seem to be able to do these days how many years old is well where two now okay so you're two years old and you've already got a collaboration with packet which is you know really recognizable around the world right so um we have many entrepreneurs many people building brands listening to this how was how has it happened so quickly for well where what collaborations i think just the growth have you been clear from day one that this is something that you wanted that quickly my own brand's been something i wanted in my head i will not pay any bones about it guys this is the hardest thing i've done in 22 years um why it's just a whole different ballgame owning your whole thing being founder and creative director let's get into that come on what's hard well first i'd probably say that when you're when you've got your when people want you to do something for their to better their brand they're very enthusiastic about you coming on and helping you and then because they're getting something from it when you start your own brand i learned the sameness as well is that people stop talking to you because you're a rival um and i heard this from brands they were like you know autograph is killing you know, David Gandy Autograph is killing us, you know, at a brand.

42:44And I didn't want to do it, but it's disruptive. You know, one of the things we did in Swimwear was pretty much, you know, I looked at All of Our Brown. I was on holiday, and I said, I need to do something for David Gandy Autograph. And I loved All of Our Brown. It's one of the pinnacle brands. Incredible success. I said, but what if we did those Swimwear, they're 150 quid. What if we did them at MMS for 30? And we put the side adjusters and the colors and did that. We sold a pair every minute on launch. that's why I kind of look at doing all the time but you are competition and you are competition in the industry you are in so I think that's the difference so where you could rely on people to help or you ask favours that's now no longer and businesses there's some really ruthless business people around and it's hard it's really really hard.

43:37So what's been the biggest lesson you've learned?

43:42stupidly to come back to originally what i've done in my in this fashion industry is do everything yourself bring it all in-house we've been promised the earth by other brands um creatives all these different things and then you learn yeah you can't rely on horribly terribly you can't rely on anyone that's why the team were where they are i mean i can't thank them enough we are all doing three or four jobs each how big is the team six people not big and you wake up in the morning go to sleep at night thinking of well where this is like some laser laser sometimes when you're asleep as well i think that's something to point out loads of people as well if you're going to do the entrepreneurial thing i mean it is all consuming yeah i mean collaboration with m &s and collaboration brands is different you can turn them on and off you can you can be involved kind of as much or as little as you like but i was massively involved with with mns and i still to this day love mns always did that's why i worked with them but we had a you know kind of a collaboration for eight years that was a long time in the industry and then you go and you need to to me this was the last thing can i do it this was the last thing and i didn't need to do it but it was the last thing that was gonna if i hadn't done it 20 years if this fails if it succeeds i would have gone I wonder what I've happened what is it?

45:03can I do it? what to you is it? I suppose it's a bit like anything it's that risk and reward everything I've done everything I've done there's a little bit of risk the risk of completely shone down all my brands I worked with you know when I said to Tandy in 2005 there was a risk it wasn't a risk to me at the time but clearly it was a risk so but if you judging on your name higher perform and get to that reward for achieving that is worth it so can you expand on your on how you take risks because I've heard this theme crop up a number of times in whether it's you walking away from two modules left of the university degree to go and pursue a career in modelling that's a risk but you said had nothing to lose you decide that you're going to turn down brands to focus on like rather than work for 20 brands you'll work for two and build a relationship that's a risk but again you said i had nothing to lose now you do have plenty to lose so how has your relationship with risk changed over the years going back to sports and many things there's you know and in life there's a 27 club apparently you you have self-deprecation after the age of 27 before that i think we all know this is guys we're scared living that if i had a boy because i knew he'd try and kill himself in cars or sports or skiing or something i used to how me and my friends you know since i've known through throughout all life i have no idea the stupid things that we used to do and then at 27 you don't think about the risks and after that you start thinking about um the risks and what you're going to lose or what you could lose and it changes changing you know formula one those guys at 25 don't think about death don't think about the risk they just go for it yeah 30 year old be like and that that as a sportsman you can't do that you cannot have that doubt you've just got to go for it um and i think that changes the more it's good you know you have success you have lifestyle you i have responsibilities you know my children need to go to school We have homes.

47:19Everything needs to be paid for. We have a lifestyle. I want to travel like I did with my parents. So, of course, you're not risking. But also, that's management. Even if something happens, you've planned for those problems to happen and still be able to live. So, it's not risking too much. Financially, I wouldn't say I'm a big risk taker because I don't know as much within that world. So we're talking, you know, a lot of people who put a lot of money into the stock market and trading and all these different things. I've invested in 20 companies. And I've got, obviously, brands and companies of my own.

47:56But I don't understand that as much. I just couldn't take those risks. I don't understand that. But there's something in me that, for some reason, I always said gut feeling. Any time I've ever not, you know, not gone with my gut instinct, it's gone wrong. That's honestly true. And I thought, yeah, you knew this. Why did you do it? And, you know, we're going back to going from failure to failure. I've learned more from failure than I have from success. Sometimes I don't trust success. Something comes very easily. I don't trust it. I'm like, that's an anomaly. Why did that happen? But failure, if you keep on going, you're learning alone, as long as you don't carry on those failures.

48:32So what would you say has been your biggest failing then? And what did you take from that?

48:41if you go to well where as I just said trusting other people and that's yeah we bought everything in the house cost us a fortune to do it ruined our business plan everything else if you don't know your purpose in life find your passion your passion will lead you to your purpose and there's a purpose to this there's got to be a purpose it's not to make it is to make of course every business is to make money to be successful that's you know an ego thing um and i hope it will be but there is and taking on the big boys in the industry i suppose that's my ego so like can i take the guys on and and create this industry and disrupt a little bit and uh but there's a purpose behind this and a serious purpose if we're all serious about the environment then we need to talk about it and there's a seriousness to it and while damien's interested in the purpose i'm interested in the process because i think that's so helpful for other people like are you ceo of this brand are you running this day today founder and creative director and so we've all got about three hats on so how are you hiring people so my best friend uh charlie t he started a creative branding agency um and during lockdown he said finally i've got you in one place at one time let's have a chat i finished my mns and we were in a point where i had six months i couldn't do anything um and i said wait okay let's start brainstorming and um we did and we came up you know the concept of of world where no one is bigger than anyone else no one is better and i encourage everyone and i never want to micromanage never want to like everyone is there because they are the best at what they do and that's why i trust everyone's i have to make those decisions at the end that's what i've done in the in the industry i still have to be i said but leave this with me and i say it to brands sometimes as well or i say it to the creators within brands i said blame me if this goes wrong i'll take the i'll take the blame for this because some of this you know corporates above that is not believing in this so if it goes wrong blame me but it's not going to go wrong so that's why i always say to people so yeah i take that problem but it's a it's a team effort and they're just incredible at the moment is what we are you know is what we what we are achieved with not you know not very little hopefully um you know you need a visionary and you need someone to come along to really you know for our growth but we are growing very very well um but to take it to that next stop to really really sort of take on the big boys then you know that's the next round of financing and everything else i wish you all the luck i'm i'm so excited for you to you know become a founder of a brand and i think you spent your career actually breaking down doors for others to walk through like the first male model to do what you did with branding and now look what you do you're saying to all of those guys who are used to just having their photo taken and being judged from the outside as you know good looking but not that bright you're saying just show the world what you can achieve and i think that's probably a big reason why this feels so passion driven for you and hopefully that will continue good luck right we've reached our quickfire questions the three non-negotiable behaviors that you and the people around you should buy into drive commitment kindness honesty great what's the best piece of advice you've ever received and why no one's given me that much advice that sounds a really strange thing so what advice would you give to a teenage david just starting out enjoy the moment more there's times like my best moments life i don't even think i can remember because i was already on to the next element what can this lead to what are we working on next if you could go back to one moment of your life what would it be and why i could go on both my daughters being born with a magical moment if i had to go on a work uh element it was on a speed boat after shooting light blue coming back with mario testino on the team and going okay so that's this is what i've worked for this is what i've you know this is what i've had i've put up with all the shit for five years i think this one i think this one could be special it was the excitement of where this could lead and i don't think uh yeah i've had those moments but it was just that that one was incredible your biggest strength your greatest weakness greatest strength Strength.

52:51Commitment, I suppose, to people, to brands, to work and drive. And your greatest weakness? Trusting people. Lastly, your one golden rule for living a high-performance life? Think outside the box. Which you have done again and again. Listen, thank you so much for taking the time. Thanks, guys. It's been such an interesting journey from the beginning to here. I'm so excited to see where Wellware goes in the future. Thank you. It still feels like after all these years, you're at the beginning of your journey, which is the most exciting place to be. Thank you. Cheers, guys. Really, really enjoyed it.

53:31Cheers, David. Cheers,

53:35David. Damien, Jake. David spoke there about sort of being judged as a male model, but he is the antithesis of what you'd imagine a male model to be. And it's a great reminder that we all exist, putting people in boxes, framing people in this image that we believe. And I love it when he comes on a podcast like this and challenges our thinking. Like, what a bright guy. Absolutely, yeah. And I think it is a good reminder that sometimes that our brain naturally puts people into stereotypes that a male model, as David said himself, has traditionally for years been mew and people then attribute that they must be dumb because you don't hear them speaking.

54:16They rely on the looks. And he's a great example that, not to judge a book by its cover, incredibly handsome man, but also somebody that's got quite a lot of nuance, subtlety and deep thinking that's going on as well. I mean, he said it in the podcast. I didn't belong at school. I don't feel I belong in the modelling world. I feel I've never belonged anywhere. and I think that's a really powerful realisation for people listening to this not to think that they're struggling and nobody else is you know even David Gandy has lived a life wracked with self-doubt and imposter syndrome and fear at times that's great to know yeah definitely I love that idea of marching to the beat of your own drum though the story told of sort of going in the library at school at lunch times because I didn't have anyone else to speak to so I learnt to be comfortable in my own company you know he's still doing that as a model now when he's going off and he says i'll go and dining restaurants on my own i travel on my own i'm not afraid of being in my own company and i think there's something that we can all learn there that we often distract ourselves with noise around us but sometimes learning to be comfortable with our own thoughts our own actions and who we are ourselves gives us that authenticity that in david's work really shines through indeed thanks Thanks a lot, mate.

55:36Thank you, mate. I really hope you enjoyed this conversation with David Gandy. If you can hit subscribe for these conversations wherever you get your podcasts, it makes a massive difference to us. But please continue to spread the learnings you're taking from these conversations. Remain humble, curious, empathetic, and find your own version of high performance. Take care.

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