David Seaman: Ronaldinho’s Goal, Gazza’s Pain & Wenger’s Genius (E416)

0:03As a goalkeeper, you're literally 10 seconds away from a major mistake. No matter how well you've played in that game, you make that one mistake, that's what everybody will remember. When the ball was coming over, I was thinking to myself, hit the ball, hit the ball. And I heard it hit the net. And then it's like, what's going to happen now? I came out of my net, Bex and Sven talking to me, but got no idea what they said to me. Can we talk about the day that Arsene Wenger walked through the door? Arsene who? his first week he changed everything and Arsene's encouraging him to pass it and play and I'm like wow never shouting just little instructions every single game

0:40Which of those three holds the best memory? The night you're an I6 one yeah because as much as it wasn't it wasn't a successful tournament it was but we didn't win it do you know what I mean it was it was special you know we went into that under massive pressure. You know, everybody wanting Gazza out of the squad and all that sort of stuff. You know, it was quite a lot of pressure going around. But then we draw with Switzerland in the first game. You know, so that would even build it even more. And then we've got Scotland next. So, yeah, it was a special tournament. Because for me, I felt the England team made England fans love England again.

1:25because before it was a little bit volatile. Yeah. And what do you think happened that made them love England again? They just saw us coming back, coming back from hardly... We went to Singapore and a certain Mr Gascoigne decided to do the dentist's chair. Yeah. And then all the pictures came out from that and the fallout from that wasn't very good. you know so I don't think the country felt that we were preparing in the right way or whatever but it was just out of pressure yeah Were you there that night in Singapore? Do you know what? I would have been and this is why I wasn't is so we played against a blooming dog and duck 11 in Singapore you know and beat them about 11-0 or whatever it was you know it was just and then we got told we could have a night out because we were flying back the next day so I go up to my room and I started getting changed and that.

2:23And I'd just come out of the shower, sat on the bed, put the telly on and it was Arsenal against Chef Wednesday Cup final. I was like, oh, I'll watch this for a little bit and that was it. I bumped. What, you fell asleep? I fell asleep, exactly. And then I woke up the next morning, like go down for breakfast and I'm hearing about all the carnage that went on and all the fun as well. Yeah. Oh, that's the interesting thing though, isn't it? I think the press picked up on that as a wholly negative thing. but in a team I wonder whether actually and you know we can talk later as well about Arsenal because there was a lot of more recent criticism about the Tuesday club and the drinking that went on but I wonder what the what the value is in those moments actually for team spirit for players I think it's massive you know because everybody gets together you know even even like some not with England but like with Arsenal like when you said about the Tuesday club you know some of the Shire players you know they came along and it it brings them into the squad it brings them into the squad even more I want to talk a bit about Euro 96 because you talk about the pressure and the scrutiny that comes with playing for England.

3:26But I never felt that you felt that because the easy smile, the ponytail, the laugh. You almost looked like the calm member of those England squads to me. Yeah, I was. Inside, there's a lot more going on than I was showing because as a goalkeeper, you're literally 10 seconds away from a major mistake. And no matter how well you've played in that game, you make that one mistake, that's what everybody will remember. And that happened a couple of times, like massive ones. But that's just the way I was. When I was getting ready in the dressing room, I would be nice and calm. Martin Keane, he used to say to me, if I felt myself getting too excited or whatever, he said, I'd just look over at you.

4:13and he says you'd be there just like deadpan you know I was just concentrating and he said but that helped him Which mistake still hurts the most when you think back? The Brazilian game the Ronaldinho one you know because and I still get asked today you know like did he mean it and I say well I know it didn't I was told it didn't mean it straight after the game by Gilberto Silva who was an Arsenal team mate but playing for Brazil and I said but it doesn't matter it still went in from like 35 40 yards you know and that for me is a goalkeeping mistake no matter what happens you know but you know the fact that I went I think I went to go to my right then changed it to my left blocked out I couldn't move what was going on then?

4:55do you know what when the ball was coming over I was thinking to myself hit the bar hit the bar because I knew I wasn't getting it I knew I wasn't going to get anywhere near it and I just wanted to hear the sound of it hit the bar and I heard it hit the net and I was like shit yeah you know and then then we've still got half an hour to go alright so I'm on the pitch now and I'm thinking to myself am I going to get treated like Beckham did in 98 if this scoreline stays the same that's on the pitch oh my goodness you're thinking that during the game yeah and how do you balance that with actually then having to do your job it was I found it hard but I did it but I was aware that I was like really nervous you know after that you know and there was a couple of times where, you know, I found myself thinking I've got to go and get that cross, you know, that wasn't mine, you know what I mean?

5:48So it totally goes against what I always used to preach to other goalkeepers and what I used to do myself. Once you've made a mistake, try and relax a little bit and then build it step by step by doing little things, you know, because if you start thinking that you've got to go and make a save or you've got to go and get that cross, you might make another mistake. You know, so I was aware of that in the game. and then obviously they go down Ronaldinho himself gets sent off they go down to 10 men and we still don't equalise and then it's like what's going to happen now and that's why when I came out of my net and I've seen pictures of like Bex and Sven talking to me and Ray Clemens and I've got no idea what they said to me on the pitch on the full time whistle after the full time whistle yeah I mean the interesting thing is I saw Ashley Cole recently talk about that when he came out of the dressing room after that that he said the press were salivating and didn't want to have your head on a stick and he spoke up for you to them and he felt that that came at a cost to him in terms of his own relationship with the press afterwards because I well I was sat next to him at the at the Champions League Cup final and I've stuck up for Ashley before you know like when he left Arsenal and I've always told the truth of you know what I knew then and he's always he stuck up for me as well.

7:10And he said that the press were almost laughing a little bit at me because I remember going into a press conference afterwards and I could not hold it together. I just kept crying because I was too emotional. Because even when the final whistle went, and like I said, when Sven and Bex came to me, I then went to the England fans and I was like, oh, God. It's that feeling of letting everyone down. That's what it felt like. then all that emotion comes out. Well, stay where you are because in a moment David's going to explain how nervous he was returning to England after his Ronaldinho mistake. But then what happened that almost moved into tears?

7:52So I'm now going back on the plane and I'm still thinking like, oh God, what am I going to get treated like? Got off the plane at Heathrow and there was like thousands of fans there and a load of them started singing my name. because I'd had a good tournament, which gets forgetting about. I'd played well. And even in the Brazil game, I'd done well. But there's a mistake there that everybody remembers. But then when everybody started singing my name, honestly, it was like such a relief. Really? I think you get a bit moved even now thinking about it. Because that's like a moment in time where you don't know what's going to happen.

8:29I saw what happened to Bex. you know totally unjustifiable and horrible at times you know not just like the stuff you know the stuff like when he's just walking in the street and things all that goes through your head when I landed and I remember I got my son Robbie on my arm and he was only he'd be what two and but then people started singing my name and it was like massive relief did you have a tear? no I don't think I did not then I'd shed enough before that trust me yeah I bet what after the mistake after the game you know like like I said on the pitch in the press conference afterwards I tried to do that couldn't do it then we get from we get back on the coach we go to the hotel where all the fans all the family are waiting for you there as well you know it's just this yeah just a feeling of letting everybody down but what's that like though for like a Rotherham lad that's almost been trained to keep your emotions but you don't let the world see what's going on in there.

9:40That was uncontrollable. You know, because like you say, I'm trying to fight it. I'm trying to not cry. I'm a six foot four Yorkshireman. Yeah, yeah. That's what I mean. And your generation doesn't show emotions like that. So how does it leave you feeling? It just comes out and then you just feel, I don't know, just vulnerable I think. And then, you know, I've got people around me there that looked after me and you know it was just yeah I couldn't control that it was just emotion that just came out I remember on Harry's Heroes the TV show that you did when Paul Merson broke down in tears on that show and I thought in a similar way I thought that was a really powerful show of vulnerability from him yeah exactly were you expecting that no I was shocked when he came out because it was like when I saw the clip of him you know in the taxi and that it was just like oh I didn't realise that he was back to the old ways of his gambling.

10:36I don't know whether he was drinking, but it was his gambling that was causing the most damage. And seeing him being like that again really shocked me. And then seeing Razor Rudder and then Merce having a real ding-dong at breakfast, because I was there for that. Me and my wife Frankie were there for that. and it was 10 times worse than what we saw on TV. You know, it was really bad. You know, and I was like trying to, I didn't know like who to try and help. Because Mercer's my mate and Razor needs help. Yeah. You know, so that was a real tough time. But then that's different. That's not like emotion for me.

11:21That's to try and go and try and help someone. But what have you learned being in sort of dressing room environments about being able to spot when somebody maybe can't articulate they need help, but you can see all the signs. What are they? Yeah, they just, they stop talking. You know, they go into it like a shell. And then that's, and I felt that I was good at spotting that. You know, and I always made a point of new lads that came into the squad, especially England and things, you know, like when Bex came in, I went over to him and shook his hand and said, welcome to the squad and all that. And he's told that story before, you know, but it was just something that I did with everybody.

11:58I remember how I felt when I first went into my first England squad, which was like back in 87, something like that. You know, I'm like playing a training with people like Brian Robson and Glenn Hoddle and Viv Anderson, Peter Shilton. Yeah. You know, and I was like, oh my God. You know, and you just, you go in there and you just think like, I'll never get to that standard. Really? Honestly. Yeah. You know, because like, they're like way ahead of you. Of course they're going to be, because they're older and they're more experienced. But when you're actually training with them, you're all on the same level.

12:31You know, I remember getting chipped by Glenn and I never saw it coming. You know, he was only like 10 yards out and I was ready for a shot, a hard low shot. And he went, chip! And he went, pfft! I was like, I never saw that coming. I was like, oh my God, what sort of standard is this? Really? Yeah. We'll be right back after a quick word from our partners. Hi, this is Becca Moore for The Girls Podcast. All right, a quick shout out to our presenting sponsor, Apple Cash. Summer is here, which means the group chats are already spiraling with festival and summer plans. And we all know the worst part of being the one who fronts the money for the passes or housing.

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15:14all these amazing great moments you know you're a genuine legend of the English game yet the first thing you think of when you turn around and look at your shirts is a couple of bad moments yeah I know you do I don't know well because obviously it's England you know we'll talk about that one later but the England situation is that never won anything for England you know and I go along with a lot of players now you know obviously since 1966 and that's like a regret if you know what I mean you know because I know how much football means to this country I know how much it means to the fans you know I saw it in Euro 96 you know and I've seen it in other tournaments you know getting to the final at Wembley and all that sort of stuff and I just want I want to be around when England win something because I think it's going to be it's going to be epic Did you believe in those squads you were involved in that you would win a trophy for England?

16:07Yeah the 98 squad was really good the 96 squad was like like a rebuild of because we hadn't qualified for USA in 94. Yeah. So then Terry came in. Terry was just like, so good. Every box he ticked. Man management, tactical, motivation, just looking at him. He was just a proper manager and he knew how to look after players. But even to the fact when before, because obviously we didn't have to qualify. So we were playing friendlies before the tournament, and every get-together we would watch videos of Holland. We're like, why Holland? He's like, at some stage, we will play against Holland. And look at what the score, you know, look at the performance.

16:56And he'd identified that early on. Yeah, he said, because Holland have set the bar high. You know, they are more like the team to beat. You know, them and Germany, obviously. But Holland were the, yeah. Could you give us an example then of Terry's man management? because, as you know, I've spent years working in football and so many England players of your generation say, Terry Venables was the man on every level. I'd love an example of why. The motivational side of it, of him saying, you know, come on, do it for the badge, you know, which when you flip that and you look, and my experience of a foreign manager with Sven, absolutely miles apart.

17:38As in, I didn't get it from Sven. and I got so much from Terry and Glenn as well, Glenn Hoddle, but Terry was just, he knew everything. He knew when to, even sometimes we'd be in the hotel. We'd been together for quite a few weeks and he'd go to me like, David, take him fishing. He's getting on my nerves, being Mr. Gascoigne. So then I would have to take him fishing and look after him and everything. but he knew when for me to go and look after Gazza a bit because he knew that Gazza was such an important player of the squad. But he's not easy to look after. And he knew that about everybody. He knew everybody's character.

18:20And what was the secret to helping Paul be the best he could be? Keeping him happy. I've known Gazza for a long time and I've seen a lot of sides to him, you know, and some mad sides and some downsides, you know, but underneath all that, he's got a heart of gold, you know, and he would do anything for you. And, you know, that's what I wanted to do. I wanted, you know, when I was taking fishing, he'd mess about a little bit, but he loved his fishing. You know, his passion for fishing was massive. You know, he bought then, and we would always fly fish because he can cast a really good line. but he'd be changing his fly like so many times because he'd cast it out a couple of times oh that's not working and he'd take it out his fly was out of the water more than it was in it because he was too busy trying to tie a new one on but he just loved it he was so passionate about it but no patience didn't have the patience for a fisherman no he yeah I've took him so I've done some filming with him since you know and made sure that he was alright you know because he's still got his difficulties and and we went And, you know, he absolutely loved it.

19:32And we were cart fishing, you know, and I said to the producers at the time and Ali Hamidi, I was like, right, I said, I want people to see the side of Gaza that I know, not the one that you know and that you try and get going and, you know, make him do silly things and that. And he was like, oh, okay, okay. And like during the shoot, I was always aware of like, whoa, calm me, you know, like making sure that people saw that side of Gaza. And he had a really good time, you know. He does, he just absolutely loves his fishing. And when you were on the riverbank, that's quite a contrast to the sort of the harsh environment I imagine many football dressing rooms are.

20:11Did Paul ever open up or reveal a little bit of some of the troubles or the vulnerabilities he was experiencing? The worst that I saw was when he got left out of the squad in 98. I saw a man that was destroyed because he loved England so much, and it was such a shock to him. It was a shock to us, to the squad as well. We always knew how good he could be, and we knew that some of the players, they knew they couldn't create what Gazza could create. So the fact that he's totally out of the squad was a massive blow. But I saw him trying to organise his own plane because he was so devastated, and he didn't want to go back on the FA plane and all that, and then obviously having arguments with Glenn and then throwing flowers and damaging the hotel and all that sort of thing.

20:59But this was just a man that was devastated by the news that he wasn't going to be in a World Cup. Could you do anything in that moment? I was with him. I was trying to sort him out and we were trying to get him, there were me and Paulings, we were trying to get him on the plane because the other lads were going to go on it and we just felt it was the best thing that he got on on the FA plane and eventually calming him down and packing his bags for him. He's like horrible things when you think about it. The fact that I'm packing Paul Gascoigne's bag to get him out of a World Cup. And yeah, it was just, eventually we did it.

21:33We caught him on the plane, but he was a broken man then. But you definitely played in an era where showing weakness or vulnerability wouldn't have been the norm, right? Yeah, yeah, true. How hard is that when you're a fully rounded person with challenges and doubts and fears, but you can't show any of this at work. How does that manifest itself? I was lucky because I didn't really have that many. There was more highs than there were down times. The two down times I had in football was obviously the Naim goal in the Cup Winners' Cup final right at the end and then the Brazil goal. They were like two real big negative times in my life.

22:15I always think that game, the Brazil game, where it was Martin Keown famously said, we needed Churchill and we got Ian Duncan Smith. Like, something that was more cerebral and thoughtful. And yet that was used as a stick to beat Sven with. Afterwards, like, what was your perception of it? Yeah, I just didn't get it with Sven because it was... You know, I had my manager, Bobby Robson, Graham Taylor, Kevin Keegan, Terry, Glenn, and then Sven comes in and it was just like... when he's, you know, like, do it for England or do it for the badge or just didn't seem to have the same meaning. Right. Because he was foreign, do you think?

22:57Yeah. You know, and I don't know why, but that's the way that I felt, you know, and it just didn't have the same, you didn't get the same motivation from it from when, especially Terry, you know, Terry was, like, so good at that. Yeah. But Sven, to be fair to him, tactically, he was very, very good, you know, and got us to a lot of tournaments. but by what 02 so I played in the World Cup came back and I think I played about two or three more games for England and then he gave me the good old phone call I'm leaving you out of the squad I'm going to go with David James When the England manager rings you and says that's it do you try and fight to try and convince them otherwise no?

23:45Not for me no once he's made that decision you ain't going to change it and even if you try and change him be what you say to him he's already had that thought so it's going to be he's got negative thoughts about you so for me I was like okay It's strange though isn't it because you play your last you know when people go oh one day you pick up your kid for the last time and you don't know it's the last time you'll ever pick your kid up you didn't know it was the last time you were going to play for England so you go through these moments and you treat them like every other moment yeah and you don't get the goodbye no a bit like the arson wenger phone call up there towards the end of your arsenal career did you see that coming um a little bit yeah yeah because i there was a game at southampton uh i don't know whether i can't remember who it was against but i let a corner in direct and i was like oh this is not good and we got i think we drew We all got beat.

24:41And then I just, I knew that I wasn't on form. Yeah. With England. And I knew that plus the World Cup, you know, with that mistake. And now this, I was like, yeah, this could be. Still to come, David explains how Arsene Wenger transformed Arsenal and changed one very specific thing. Can we talk about the day that Arsene Wenger walked through the door? Yeah. Arsene who? That's what he was like, honestly. We had no idea what he was like. And then he walked, and we were like, that's our manager. Because he looked like some sort of professor coming out of the university. He had the round glasses. He was really thin, oversized suit, wasn't it?

25:29I know, and we were like, wow. And then, you know, his first week, he changed everything. thing you know the way that we were training you know because like before that we'd had george graham then we had um bruce rey out for a little while but the training totally changed in what way as in we were playing football like with balls like pre-season like not not a lot of running you know just laps or anything like that it's what i call disguise running because you've got a ball with you and all that you know oh yeah this is great but then they're just as tired as before but yeah technique wise I'm passing it not passing it I'm giving it to Tony Adams on the edge of the box and Arsene's encouraging him to pass it and play and I'm like wow and I'm like you can't do it but he did but can I ask you like you're making references there to like the glasses and this professorial air that he came in with and I'm interested like in today's environment take an example like Liam I remember seeing you recently at Chelsea where very quickly you heard that people were calling him the supply teacher.

26:37They were sort of making fun of the way that he carried himself. And yet you're describing that Wenger was carrying himself in a very different way than the usual environment. What was it that Wenger did that got you as a cynical group of blokes to buy into him? Yeah. So the first thing was the way that we trained, you know, like I say, with the ball. And the intensity of the training and quality of the training that was expected was so high. Right. You know, and he was always watching. He didn't, like, say a lot in training, but he was always watching. He'd just shout the odd instruction. Then he'd go back, and then he'd have, like, Pat Rice and Boro, who was his number two that nobody hardly ever saw.

27:24Right. And he was always, like, up in the stand, and he'd come down at halftime and chat with Arsene. and then just his passion of always wanting to watch football and then the players that he brought in so he brought in this new way of you know this nutrition side of it yeah and you know it was like water like room temperature water no fizzy water at all see I remember working in 2012 at the Euros the Poland Ukraine Poland Euros right With Martin Keown. Yeah. And we were drinking fizzy water in the stadium. And he'd been retired probably 10 years. And he went, quickly hid his water. I said, what are you doing?

28:11He goes, arson's here. Honestly, he goes, you hate me drinking fizzy water. He says it dehydrates us. I'm like, mate, you're retired. Yeah. I never drink fizzy water. Okay, I'll have it cold. We weren't even allowed to have it cold. It had to be like room temperature. And then, obviously, the amount of food that we would eat. And we were watching, but the way that he did it was really good and the way he managed it was brilliant because he had Anelka, Vieira, Grimondi, Remy Gard, and then Manu Petit came in. And they were already on this diet. They knew about the diet. And they were eating mounds of food before games.

28:51And the lads are looking. It's different for me because I don't run around much. and you know so I was on yeah it's different but the outfield players are like are they going to be able to run around with that much food in them and they did and they never stopped and then the lads are like ooh so then they start trying it you know for instance my pre-match meal normally was ham and cheese omelette with beans like righty would have a fillet steak with a fried egg on top like three hours before you know so it just totally changed you know with all this this pasta and boiled fish and boiled chicken and boiled veg and zero fat yogurts and crudities and all this sort you know like a massive mixture of food and you have to eat a lot of it as well and that doesn't work right unless you also get results yeah exactly you won his first game didn't he 2-0 from memory I can't remember but I think winning it's so important for him to have started winning games yeah because that's the thing that makes it you're happy to do anything if you're going to win matches and win trophies yeah yeah exactly you know but the but the buzz was different.

29:57It was like real positive buzz because we knew we were like, because I'm watching players now playing the ball and passing and they've hardly done it before. Right. And they were enjoying it. So then they're enjoying training and then that's transferring to the games. And then we're looking at the players that are coming in. Like, Nicolas and Elka, I'm telling you now, was off the charts good when he first came to Arsenal. And he was 17. Yeah. He didn't speak much French. Much French, much English. His French was pretty good. His right foot was better. Well, you were on the receiving end of it, probably, in training.

30:28And I remember being in training, and I think it was Tony and Boldy were playing against him, and he was embarrassing them a little bit. And then they started trying to kick him, and they still couldn't gain. Honestly, he was so good. And then you've got Patrick Diar and people like that that came in, and just the quality of the players that was there. But the standard in training was so high. and expectation in training. But I think you're alluding to people like Tony or Steve Bold and some of those characters. I'm interested if you tell us a little bit about what preceded Arsene coming in. Tell us about the Tuesday Club.

31:09Yeah, so the Tuesday Club was us having a few drinks on a Tuesday afternoon stroke night. Yeah. But it was always done, and George knew about this, because it was back in the day when you didn't play as many games. So Wednesday was off. And so we would go to hybrid and George would give us a real physical session because he knew we were going out. And then we would go out. We'd have Wednesday off back in training on Thursday. But yeah, it was just, we would go to the races or be going to London or wherever, and then just have a good bit of fun. But like everybody. Because this is the bit that I think we often given Paul Merson's struggles in the years afterwards or Tony Adams has spoke about it I think we often then decry what those Tuesday Club sessions became but actually there was an awful lot of benefits from them as well Yeah there was because of team bonding and it got everybody together and you didn't always have to go and people would like miss one go to the next one and it was just it just had so much fun you know and it was back in the day where there weren't so many mobile phones or there weren't mobile phones with cameras on them you know so we could have a laugh you know and we'd get away with it but you know for the team I just felt it was so good that you know because everybody would come and have a good like a release I suppose on a Tuesday and what about like were issues sorted out there as well the kind of thing like I've heard Brian Robson and I was going to ask you about his role as Terry Venables assistant later but Brian Robson spoken really powerfully about how often disputes or little niggles would get resolved in these kind of social sessions that maybe wouldn't have done in a dressing room environment.

33:02Yeah, a little bit. We didn't talk a lot about football, though. Right. You know, it was just about going out and having a laugh, you know. Or if somebody had a bad game or something, there'd be a little bit of mickey-taking, you know, and then that, like, brings it out, and it's like, oh, come on, like, next game, you know. it was that sort of vibe about it it was never really I can't remember getting into trouble you know like with scuffles or anything like that it was just mainly like good fun and so did Arsene then ban Chuzo Club when he became the manager um no he didn't ban it but the fact was that we started because we started playing more games now that the Wednesday was hardly ever off right and then the other thing was is that if you'd had a few the night before and you'd turned up in training, he stood out like a sore thumb.

33:53Because it was so intense. Because most of the other ones weren't on it. They had not had a drink, and it was so intense. So it just, like, slowly faded out. But he was, he didn't, he didn't say, right, no drinking or anything like that, you know, because even, like, straight after a game, you know, we'd be, like, straight to the bar and have a few beers and then get back on the coach, you know, and then, you know, and he knew exactly what we were doing, but he managed it so well that he didn't, it didn't like upset us that way you know because I hear managers coming in and like banning red sauce and all that all these sort of normal things that we do you know banning them straight away which then causes a rift straight away Arsene didn't do anything like that to cause any rifts at all because he wasn't he wasn't a guy that liked confrontation like one on one confrontation he didn't like that even to the point where if he named a team on a Saturday say at like half one and he'd flip up the first page of the flip board and he would be there and then the players that weren't involved straight after the meeting they'd be like oh boss can I have a word no I'll see you Monday and then he would avoid the Monday just hated it yeah he just didn't he didn't want to do it yeah because anyone I've spoken to that played under him they talk about how inspired they were to play for him what did he do with you to give you the confidence to know that you were the number one and what he expected from you in a game he just he would he was wise because he didn't because I don't forget I was 26 when I joined Arsenal so I'd had so that was 90 and Alisson came in what 96 so I'd had 6 years at Arsenal as number 1 and that's 7 years now with Bob Bob Wilson my coach because he used to come to QPR before I signed for Arsenal so Bob was like my guy that I spoke to and listened to and Alisson worked that out really quickly so he would go to Bob rather than coming to me, you know, and he wouldn't.

35:49But Arsene was like, he would never like blame anybody. For instance, at halftime, I don't know that you know this, but at halftime when we went in, it was total silence in the dressing room, purposely. And you went in, you got your drinks, you got your energy bars or whatever you used to have at halftime, and you sat down and you hardly, you didn't even speak to the guy next to you, you just waited. You were just quiet and quiet and quiet. and then Arsene would say the last two or three minutes before we went out he would say his little bit never shouting just little instructions back out every single game and why was it so quiet then?

36:24why were players not because he he didn't like players having a go at each other at half time so that was an instruction from him? yeah that was him yeah even once when we we were losing at half time at Highbury and Pat Rice came in first and he started having a go at a couple of lads and in front of all of us Arsene just turned around and went Pat sit down and be quiet and we were like you know what it's almost like being at school he's like Pat so that that was the sort of silence that he was after the only time that I saw I saw him lose it was at we played at Man United and we were five down I think at half time and he came in and he got his water bottle in his hand and and in his French accent he like he slammed it down in the middle of the dressing room and in his French accent he went this is not unacceptable but in his French accent it didn't sound right so I'm like oh and then as I like as I lock up I see Ray Parler and Ray's going so it was one of those like naughty schoolboy moments where you dare look at each other because it was you know you shouldn't be laughing but the way it sounded and that's the only time I've ever seen him lose it but can you think of a time when in that three minutes where he comes in at the end of a soundbless room that he said something that was profound that subsequently changed the game?

37:45No, because it was always tactical. It wasn't motivational. Okay. It was always tactical, you know, and it was always about us. You know, pre-match, we never did anything on the opposition. Only we did set pieces, you know, where we stand for set pieces. If they did something a little bit different, he'd highlight it. And that would be it. We hardly did any research on the away team. Really? Yeah. But that builds a confidence in us. And he always used to say, because if we play well, we win. That was his confidence. Even to the point when he went to the Brummie Press, I think it was the year or two years before the Invincibles, he said it.

38:28He said, we could go unbeaten this season. We were like, thanks for that pressure. But he believed it. He knew. Yeah. So interesting. So would he ever do like a Fergie-type, Churchillian, like, rousing speech? Never. I never saw that from him at all. Not once? Not once. Even before a major final? No. You know, he would, like, as you're going out before, like, you know, when he would just say the tactical side of it and everything, and then it would be like, right, come on, let's go. And then as he said that, we were like, come on, lads, and he'd be like, come on. You know, and that was it. The high was always there.

39:07you know right up to my last game for arsenal my last game for arsenal i win the fa cup as captain you know so i'm like on the pitch i lifted the trophy got my captain's armband on and everything and then um then i got to portugal i was on the year-to-year contract and arson would phone me up he says right i've got an offer for you i was like okay what you got he went i want him to be my number three goalkeeper you know this is what you just won the fa just won the fa cup and i was captain because Patrick Vieira was injured and then he said but I want you to be my goalkeeping coach I was like oh okay it's something that I'm thinking about because Bob Wilson my coach was retiring and he's been my coach for 15 years and then he went but there's a 75 % wage drop and I just started laughing I just like I said boss you know what I'm going to do I still feel I can play at least another year and I've got offers on the table so and that's why I went to Man City.

40:02And did you try and negotiate with Arsenal and try and stay at Arsenal? No, that's a message and he's done that with other big players before. You know, it's an offer that, it is an offer but it's a little offer and I think it was like, it was my time to think, well, yeah, my time at Arsenal is over. And City had already made contact? Yeah. City, Birmingham, I spoke to Steve Bruce, you know, so I'd got a choice of either going back to Birmingham where I was rebuilding my career, Oregon and Man City. But Man City were in the Premier League. They offered me the same money. Yeah, so it was quite an easy decision.

40:45But then when I went to City, it was like, whoa. Because then you realise how good Arsenal are and how good they are in every aspect of football. That's interesting. So take us to almost the first realisation that things were different at City at that time? So, like, for instance, it was Kevin Keegan that was manager, you know, and you've got Arthur Cox, Derek Fizakley, Pete Burnett and Stuart Pearce were his backroom staff. You know, apart from Pearce, they're all old school. Yeah. You know, so even down to the point of, like, meeting for the first game, like, what time are we meeting? You know, I'm thinking, are we in the hotel the night before?

41:27Are we hotel in the morning? Which is exactly what I did for up with Arsenal. And I'll meet at half one for a three o 'clock kickoff. I was like, what? I was like, what about food? You know, because with Arson, we always ate like three hours before kickoff, like a massive meal. And he was like, oh, and Kevin was like, no, no, no. He says, trust the lads. He says, I'm sure they'll eat properly. And I'm like, they're footballers. I said, like, half of them are on their own. Quick McDonald's on the way in. Exactly, yeah. You know, so it was, you know, that side of it was a shock. and then weirdly like my back four were like the two centre-ars were two Frenchmen that didn't speak much English I think my right back was Chinese guy my left back was Russian or Ukrainian and there wasn't a lot of English spoken that back four you know and then me having to to try and get some sort of communication to him in a match you know alright we did it in training as well but it's slower and do you think that impacted performance a little bit only on certain certain bits you know like you know like man on for instance you know how quick does that translate to her by the time it has done he's right on yeah the man is on yeah we sat down once with Petr Cech who told us that he learnt Spanish yeah to be able to tell his Spanish defenders yeah quickly because he realised that actually that's a real competitive advantage to be able to communicate Okay, so how was your Chinese?

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45:55It must have been an interesting time that for you though, because as you say, your career was largely highs, right? You've had a really fortunate and excellent football career. There you are playing in an FA Cup final. Six months later, you're at a club with different values, a manager with a different approach, a back four with different communication abilities and you get injured that season. and you got that nasty injury, which pretty much ended your career. It went, so I was playing for Man City away at Wolves, and the ball's down the other end, and I'm in the goal, and I was like, and I'd never had this feeling before, and people had said to me, like, you'll get a sign when you know it's time to retire.

46:35And I was in goal, and I just, in my head, I just went, what am I doing here? Don't know why, but it just came in, and I was like, ooh, that's my sign. Was it scary or weird? It was weird, but I was, do you know what? I was ready. I was ready to retire, you know, because I was, I'd have been 40 then. Yeah. Yeah. So I knew it was coming, you know, and that's why I want to talk about that other shit, because I made a certain say when I was 39. But, you know, so then that night, I actually rented a ground floor apartment right next door to Kevin, because Kevin owned the apartment. He owned the two ground floor ones.

47:14So I went and seen him. I said, look, just to let you know, I'm going to retire in the summer. So then he could make plans to get another goalkeeper in. And he was like, oh, great. Well, not great, but he just said, oh, thanks a lot. And then 10 days later, we played away at Portsmouth, and I went down at, I think it was Shikubu, and I went down at his feet, and my knee stuck in the ground, and it flipped me forward a little bit. And as it did, his knee hit my shoulder. Total accident. And then I was like, oh, and I had to come off. I couldn't carry on. And then I went for scans and x-rays, and they said, look, you've sprained your AC joint.

47:47You know, you could start, there's a lot of wear and tear. Your shoulder could start dislocating. I was like, I'm ready to retire. And I had a chat with Kevin and he said, look, he said, I've got a chance of getting David James. And I said, get him and I'll retire and then freeze up a space in the squad. So it was as quick as that. Yeah, but I think important that you'd already had that realisation a few games before that you were done. I think it's a really painful, you know, I used to work closely with Owen Hargreaves. Right. An injury robbed him, right? Yeah. Some of the best years of his life.

48:17Won the Champions League at 18 with Bayern, won it again with United, and then the wrong things were done in his knees and he never played football again. And then was pilloried and criticised by fans. And I think only now, I spoke to him recently and he said that other players retiring who he played with was the best thing for him. Because then he was back where he would have been. Do you know what I mean? Whereas at least you didn't have your career taken before you were ready. It sounds like you... Well, I nearly did at 19. You know, obviously, when I was at Leeds, I got released by Leeds United, the team that I've always supported.

48:50So then I'm at that stage. I'm like, what am I going to do now? When one of your idols, Eddie Gray, tells you that they're letting you go. What did he say to you that day? He said, and this is just after. So I've got, on my phone, I've got team photos of me in the first team photo of Leeds. I'm a Leeds fan. you know I was a boyhood school you know school boy fan as well you know so like that picture meant so much to me and literally like about a month later I get told that I'm I'm leaving um and it was out of the blue you had no idea yeah and he just came in because John Lukic was the first team goalkeeper yeah you know it's so ironic that later on I'd go and take his job but he was the first team goalkeeper and it was me and I was only 19 you know so that was and I I hadn't played for the first team.

49:41I'd only played in a couple of friendlies and things. So I could understand it a little bit, but he just said, look, we're letting you go and I'm going to get an experienced goalkeeper in. And he brought back David Harvey. Wow. The old league goalie. Yeah, I know. So then I'm like, so what do I do? What am I going to do now? He's told me that I'm not good enough. They don't need me. And like a week passed and I'm just at home thinking, what do I do? you know my mum and dad had a grocery shop that sold fresh bread and sandwiches and all that and before like when this close season went I'd go and help the local bread bakers to deliver the bread around Rotherham and that was like decent money it was like five quid a day it was good cashing hand and I'm thinking I'm going to be doing that yeah how did that make you feel just like I know he said lost but I suppose I was in a little way, you know, because I spent all that time trying to be a footballer, you know, trying to be a professional.

50:44Well, I was a professional for one year. Yeah. I did apprenticeship at Leeds two years then because they weren't, they were, like back then you signed schoolboy forms when you were 15. You're like, no, they're signing up at my seven and eight year olds. Yeah. But back then it was like you signed as a 15 year old and then you're with the club. Then you sign your first contract when you're 16 if you're good enough. But I didn't sign any schoolboy forms because I wanted to go around all the other clubs just to have a look you know but being a leeds fan it was as soon as they said yes i was yeah yeah you know so so from that to to then at 19 like not knowing what i was going to do you know thinking delivering the bread or whatever then i got a call or my dad got a call saying that peterborough coming for me because and it worked out because martin wilkinson was the one of the coaches at leeds with i think it was with alan clark and they'd left.

51:37Alan got psyched and then Martin had left and he got the job at Peterborough, found out that I'd been released and he came in for me. I said to my dad, where's Peterborough? Because I'd got no idea he was a 19-year-old. Yeah. Before we get into that though, can I go back? Because when I was reading about you, your background intrigues me. Your dad was a steel worker. Your mum worked in a bar. Your mum worked in the bar. They own this grocery store. I'm interested in what that environment, growing up in that environment, what did it give you that you could call on at moments when Eddie Gray is telling you that your career at Leeds is over?

52:15I don't know what it gave me, but what did take over was the motivation of proving people wrong. That became my main focus, like all the way through getting up to to like the most the proudest feeling that I ever had in football was when I played in the World Cup in France 98 the first game walking out I'm a lad from Rotherham it's gone through all that and I'm now playing in the World Cup for my country honestly I had like total body goosebumps really it was an unreal feeling and when you think back now what moment do you see in your head of of that day that day the walk out yeah Coming out of the tunnel.

53:00Coming out of the tunnel and then walking up and then lining up. And who were you next to? Probably Tony Adams. Yeah. He was a decent player. Who I'd always been at the side of. Lifted a few trophies next to him and all that sort of stuff. But at that moment, did you feel you'd proved people wrong or you'd proved yourself right? I would say I proved people wrong. Just so proud to get there. Yeah. And this is after Euro 96, don't forget. So I was, I'd done all right, did all right there. but that feeling of like playing in that World Cup you know and I tell this story to because I'm involved at Arsenal I go in one day a week with a young goalkeeper so sometimes I'm with the under 18s or I'm with the under 21s you know and along along that journey at the end of the season some of them lads aren't getting contracts you know and I can have a little chat with them and say look you know look at my my pathway and they're like why what do you mean I was like well I was released at 19 they're like what and they can't believe it you know that and I said to them, as much as you feel it's over now, there's another chance.

54:01But were you trying to prove, like, who was it you were trying to prove wrong? Was it Eddie Gray? A little bit, yeah. It's always Eddie, you know, and I've met him since and, you know, we've had a laugh about it. The funny story about all this, about with Eddie and proving him wrong and blah, blah, blah, is that my mum and dad still live in Rotherham, so they go out Sunday lunches in Yorkshire and then they went into a pub and they saw Eddie in the corner having his Sunday lunch and my mum says, oh my God, I'm going to say hello. My dad's going, don't, don't, don't go over. Oh, this was a few years ago.

54:32So we're like, when I was still playing for Arsenal. And she went over, she says, oh, hello Eddie, I'm David Seamans, mum, do you remember our David? And he laughed and he was great with it. She said that, he says, yeah, I know. He said that, I had to get a goalkeeper in and blah, blah, blah. There's probably though, a real value in what Eddie did. And you should almost get to the point where you're grateful for the fact that he made that decision because it lit a fire in you. Exactly. That obviously took you all the way to the top. Yeah. You know, and it's hard to accept that, if I'm honest, even now.

55:11Really? Because the way that I felt then was like, I was so devastated. I cried on my own driving home. You know, that's how much it affected me. The biggest motivation comes back again. Prove and roll. Let's talk a little bit about your dad. I wonder whether his bowel cancer diagnosis was almost that first kind of awareness of mortality. Yeah, because you think that your parents are like bulletproof. Yeah. And then when he was diagnosed, he got no symptoms. There was a national screening program. There was a little test that came through in the post. And my dad normally would, I'm not doing that.

55:50I don't need that. There's nothing wrong. But I don't know why. and I'll ask him I need to ask him this actually I was just like well why did you do it? Yeah. What made you change your mind to do it? And how old was he at the time? He would be 65. Right. And he did the test and he obviously sent it away and then they came back and they were like you need to come in and they you know they scanned him and everything and he got a two inch diameter lump in his bowel and he had no symptoms whatsoever. And did he tell you about it when he got the call? He told us that he got that and that he was going to have to have an operation.

56:28He didn't know, obviously didn't know until they went in, as to what they would have to do, because whether it means a colostomy bag or whatever, all the things that goes along with bowel cancer. He'd not got any idea, really. Luckily, because they caught it early, and all the stats say if there is any symptoms at all, try and get it checked out because the earlier that you can get it the prevention is so much higher you know with my dad he had I think he had I think it was about a third of his bowel removed and that was it he didn't have chemo he didn't have any radiotherapy or anything like that obviously he had different tablets and things and he still rattles around now on about 20 tablets a day but you know we're down 15 years down the line or more and what's it because it's not rare now as we know, a cancer diagnosis, but there was something in that that inspired you to work with the Bobby Moore Fund to help raise awareness of bowel cancer.

57:31Why did you decide that you wanted to talk about it? Well, because previously to my dad being diagnosed, my mother-in-law died of bowel cancer. Right. And, you know, that was like a real shock. Yeah. Because she, you know, like, she always seemed healthy. But then she was the type of lady that wouldn't, she didn't want to have any treatment or anything, and just gave up, but I don't know, just didn't want to go through all the chemo and all that sort of thing. Which is understandable for some people. And then it took her away. So then that was like my first experience of it, and how quick it can happen.

58:14And she was a nurse as well, so she knew what was going on. And so then that's when I started getting involved a little bit. And then obviously then my dad gained it. Then I met Stephanie. And it was just one of those things where I really wanted to do this because obviously I'm now really passionate about it. Stephanie's amazing. What about Bobby? Did you ever meet Bobby? Yeah, I did once. No way. Yeah, I know. But obviously before everybody knew that he was ill or anything like that, I remember it was Arsenal, and we played away at West Ham's ground at Upton Park, or the bowling. I don't know which one West Ham fans call it.

58:57And I remember after the game, I'd been in the bar, and I came down the steps, and he was there at the bottom of the steps. Oh, my God. And I was just so excited to go and shake his hand. And I've done that with quite a few. Even if they don't know me, I don't care. I'm still going to go in and shake their hand. I've done it with Arnold Palmer in Florida. the one I missed was Tiger Tiger walked past me I didn't shake his hand but with Bobby it was just wow he's like he won the World Cup as captain for England what did you say to him or what did he say to you I just said to him it was a pleasure to meet you and he was like oh nice it's great it's well played today you know you deserved it and it was your three points at West Ham I bet you didn't say that to him I did not you wimp I've loved that I've loved sort of reminiscing have you?

59:51yeah I do because that's that's all I do now you know my playing days are over you know I've recently just done Soccer Aid and I don't even play in that anymore you know because I know that it's done you know and I mean you mentioned about Harry's Heroes that's the last time that I played in the second series of that I remember making a save and it just popped out and I tried to get up and it was like and I was like oh my god That feels so bad. Yeah. But I've often wondered about, like, you're 63 coming up for this year, yeah. And we're talking about events that took place 20, 30 years ago. And I'm interested, like, does that frustrate you to think about that time now and that's all people want to talk to you about as opposed to the man you are today?

1:00:38No, it's a mixture, you know, because of, you know, like, of what I did. Yeah. And then of what I've done since I retired as well, you know, like dancing on ice and stuff like that, you know, mass dancer and things, you know, all them sort of things. I want to say I enjoyed doing them. Dancing on ice was the most nerve-wracking thing I've ever done in my life. Because? Because I'm out of my comfort zone. I could skate, right, because I used to skate as a kid, but I was never taught. I used to go to the local rink, you know, trying to impress the girls that you do and all that in Sheffield. And I knew I could skate.

1:01:13But the dancing side of it, I don't like dancing at all. I know I can't dance. I know I can't sing. And I don't do it. I don't even do it, even when I've had a few pints. So doing that, my love for ice skating overtook the realisation of wearing lycra and sequins and makeup. But waiting in the tunnel of Dancing on Ice live for the second show. the first show was still pretty daunting but we didn't know how many people were going to watch it I got through we found out the viewing figures peaked at like 14.4 million and we were like oh my god then the real yeah so like I'm waiting in the tunnel nervous as anything you played in World Cups I'm amazed that you were impacted in that way it's skating and I'm totally out of my comfort zone and your mouth is like so dry you go out and you have to stop in the middle Even that can be hard for some people.

1:02:13And then you present and smile, and your mouth's that dry, your top lip stays up there, and you're like, oh, what is going on? And you have a little wobble in your routine, and it's just scary.

1:02:26But some people talk about that rather than my football career. I've even had, oh, you're that guy from Dancing on Ice. Not David Seaman, the ex-footballer. Yeah. But that's cool in some ways, isn't it? It is. Did you ever have identity issues when you retired and are lacking purpose or anything? No, I took the disguise off. I got rid of the Tash and Ponytail, didn't I? But the voice still stayed the same. Did you do that on purpose, the Tash and the Ponytail? The Ponytail came off for Bob Bimore. I did that live on TV. Charles Wertham just snipped it off. We got money for that. And it's the same.

1:03:03My charity work, I'm passionate about that. You know, obviously the Bob and More Fund and Cancer Research UK, Willow, Bob Wilson's charity as well. Me and my wife, Frankie, are presidents, co-presidents of that now with Bob. You know, and then the British Heart Foundation as well, you know, because I even had like at the end of my career, you know, like we get like a heart murmur, like a regular heartbeat. That was kicking in at the end of my career as well. You know, so that was, you know, another charity and another thing that I wanted to get involved in, you know. So, you know, but like with the Bobby Moore fun stuff, it's just, it was a cold, you know, of life and death.

1:03:41You know, I'd seen that take family members away. And how did you find, like, adjusting to civilian life, we'll call it? Because we've spoken to, like, when Chris Hoy, when Chris said that when he became a dad, like he said, I'd always been the number one in my family. My needs were the most important, and then becoming a dad. He said I got relegated to number three overnight. and like it's quite a selfish world that you have to inhabit professionally. So what were the kind of adjustments you had to make? Well, it wasn't children because I'd had children all the way through because I've got 40-year-olds, you know.

1:04:16So by 22, 23, I've got two kids, you know. So I'd spent a lot of my time with my football career along with raising children and raising a family. It was strange, like going to a, not having everything done for you, like by the club. When you're going abroad and stuff, you know, like I'd go away with the family and I'd be like, oh yeah, but we just walked through like, no, you've got to go through that bit there and then that bit there or just little things. Yeah. But not, it wasn't massively different, you know? And I think the best thing for me was that I was, I was ready to retire. Yeah. You know, so I was looking forward to it.

1:04:50You know, I was looking forward to having more time to go fishing and do my, you know, play a bit of golf and then do my charity work. And it's weird, you know, and then, and even like doing the coaching. so the coaching side of it came a little bit later on and the reason was is that i started to do my badges and back then when i was doing it i got told while i was on the course that i had to do my outfield coaching badge before i could do my goalkeeping badge and that like me being stubborn yorkman like just rubbed me up this total i was like i'm not doing it and i just left it you know And then Ray Clemens set up this thing where you could get a goalkeeping diploma, which enabled ex-goalkeepers that were at clubs to carry on coaching because they got this qualification.

1:05:40You know, nothing to do with how good they were. I think you earned your diploma in that Arsenal show. Exactly. What an interesting conversation. Brilliant. Honestly, so interesting. Before we finish, we've got a few quickfire questions, if you would allow us. Yeah, please. Through all the things you've learned and the career you've had, What are the three non-negotiable behaviours that you think matter the most? Straight away, lateness. Hate lateness. Right. Yeah. Always look after your teammates. Yeah. And when you win, really celebrate. Love that. What advice would you give to a teenage David just starting out?

1:06:12I want to say believe in your dreams. Because, you know, I dreamt of playing for England and being a professional footballer. And then my, you know, then when that, along that path, along that journey that I had, you know, where there was a lot of, some downs and then, a massive down being released to then to get where I was, was a great dream. What's been your biggest strength? Being really strong mentally. You know, because as a goalkeeper, you need to be. Because you can make that mistake in that first five minutes and then can you carry on for the rest of the game by being a goalkeeper or do you get worse because you're so nervous that then you close your team again?

1:06:55I've used that a lot, you know. Even in, you know, like my private life and stuff, you know, there's been times where I've had to really knuckle down. When we spoke to Petr Cech, he spoke about when he was a young boy, he was crippled with the anxiety of, if I make a mistake, I cost my team. And he said all through his career, he had the view that the score is always nil-nil. It doesn't matter if we're winning 5-0, losing 5-0. The score is always nil-nil, was what he'd say. What looked like, was there a trick or a technique you used to keep that sense of calm. No, it was just, it was always about winning.

1:07:28You know, it was always like try and win. Because I was also good at cricket because I had that, at 16, I had the choice of going to Yorkshire as a fast bowler or going to Leeds as a goalkeeper. Yes, I was good at cricket, I was good at basketball. But we were always like really successful. You know, so it was always about trying to win things. Yeah. All the time. So I think you, sometimes we have people on here and they're having to go through mental gymnastics to be elite performers. They're struggling with self-doubt. They're having to see therapists. They're like going to bed fearful. Like apart from really that England moment, I don't think you've overthought your career, have you?

1:08:07No. You haven't had to go through mental gymnastics to be able to cope with being an England and an Arsenal and a footballing legend. It just kind of happened, right? Yeah, and it did. But I had my dad and Bob. They were like my mentors and my helpers. because he'd been a goalkeeper before so like whatever he said I understood you know and I would get sometimes I'd have managers saying stuff to me in the you know like George Graham would be like oh you should have had that cross blah blah blah and I'm like you know it would go in there and straight out of there because he's never been in that situation but Bob had you know so Bob was always there but then like you said though the mental gymnastics we didn't have people there that could have helped us yes it wasn't a thing wasn't talked about no what about like you've you've been divorced twice is that right yeah I wonder whether in some ways that is the cost of the career that you've had has been the personal life challenges I know you're very happily married to Frankie and I've met her a few times she's amazing yeah better at better at ice skating than you as well just a bit but I wonder whether that is almost the hidden side of David Seaman that we didn't see in those golden days that's like what I said you know about you know things that happen in your private life that they still make you mentally stronger you know because you've got to a certain situation where you need to make a decision you know what happens do you stay or do you leave or whatever you do you've got to go for it you know and in my head that's the reasons why you know I just I was but then I feel that I was strong enough to make those decisions and for me they were the right decisions quite taken with your relationship with Bob Wilson I mean was it when you were at QPR that you first met him yes So what was it that drew you towards him that made you trust him so deeply?

1:09:56Well, what it was, so Don Howe was the coach at QPR, one of the coaches, and he'd spoken to Bob and asked if he would come in and give me some lessons. Lessons? It's weird. You know, like come and coach me for QPR and he would come in once a week while he was still at Arsenal as well. Right. Yeah, you know, so obviously he was going back and telling George that, you know, well, this goal is not bad. Yeah. And then, but I don't know, it was just a relationship that we had but then again it's the fact that Bob played for Arsenal you know and as he told me he was always he was the first goalkeeper to win the double for Arsenal and he used to tell me that all the time and even to the point where like cup finals or like deciding matches to win a league or whatever he always leave like a little note like when I used to get changed or a pair of his gloves you know if I can do it in these gloves guess what look what you can do in yours and these like sort of little motivational snippets that were brilliant you know and you know and then even like when his daughter Anna was diagnosed with cancer you know like little bits like do it for Anna and all that sort of stuff and it was just he was so good at that the motivational side of it whereas technically it wasn't it wasn't really there for that he was there to to make sure that I was right in my head and that I had everything covered in the week in training or he would even ask me, he says like, is there something you want to work on this week?

1:11:24You know, if a certain situation had happened in a game where I'm not doing it right, I'd be like, oh, let's just cover that a bit, just get it out of there and then move on. He was so good at that. With Bob, and I didn't really get it from many others goalkeeping coaches, that I could gain confidence through training. Who do you still maintain is the best striker you faced? Brazilian Ronaldo. Really? Yeah. I didn't know what he was going to do. And I always used to watch on TV different strikers, see what they do, and he had the little toe poke in it. He had the shot where he hardly had any back lift, and he'd make little side footers or he'd hit it with pace.

1:12:03And even in the game against Brazil, I made 1v1. I saved a couple with him. Nobody remembers that. There was a few other saves, but him that I've played against, I would say him and Ronaldinho obviously are you know they're two pretty good players decent aren't they greatest weakness yeah I can be quite stubborn and is that a weakness can be yeah yeah I don't don't always agree with people and finally David what's your golden rule to live in a high performance life you've got to enjoy it you've got to love doing what you're doing because I loved being a goalkeeper even from going into the playground as a probably nine or ten year old joining with the big boys that were playing football where I wasn't allowed to go over this white line until I was old enough going up to them can I come and play football?

1:13:01Like oh yeah, you're tall going goal. You know, so I gained confidence from them praising me because I was stopping the ball but then I just loved being in goal so I was like I'll go in goal. so it was just the love of being a goalkeeper you know and I get people coming now to me saying oh yeah I really like being a goalkeeper but I like being striker as well I'm like you need to love it you need to absolutely love what you're doing well listen when you've been successful at something and the caps behind you are proof of that and you've loved it as well when you've won at life and that's a pretty rare thing so thank you so much for coming on and sharing your story with us absolute pleasure brilliant thank you cheers thank you Damien Jay I actually like David's simplistic approach to elite performance I think sometimes we get carried away with thinking there has to be more going on there has to be a hidden depth there has to be a secret that we can uncover on this podcast but actually well I just played football and I really enjoyed it and how often maybe the two are linked are we joined by guests who haven't enjoyed the journey and they've thought it and overthought it and cogitated on it for hours and hours.

1:14:14And he's like, well, I played football and loved it. He's the winner. Brilliant. I like it sometimes when we get a bit of a swipe of a guest. You know, like when we had Colin Bell on and he was like, you two lads keep going on about motion. I just got on with the job. 105-year-old Colin gave us a bit of a chasing experience to go. Sometimes you just have to do your job. And like, well, David didn't quite swipe us like Colin did. I like the idea of exactly as you say sometimes it's just because I've enjoyed what I did I persevered until I got where I wanted to and I generally dealt with it all pretty well.

1:14:51And it wasn't complicated and high performance doesn't always need to be complicated and it's interesting because you know to give people an insight into the way that these things work you know if we're recording a number of guests in a day I might focus on some you might focus on others in terms of the prep and you've done a lot of the prep for this conversation and actually I was looking once the interview began i was looking through some of the questions that you diligently worked on thinking no no no because they were because loads of them were about like the hidden cost of playing for england yeah we are talking about like what lessons did you learn from your dad that you had to discard and you go well actually his dad sounds a pretty brilliant character that just sort of kept him on the straight and narrow was a mentor and lifted him up when he needed it you know sometimes that idea of i just wanted to prove somebody wrong that It doubted me and that was enough fuel to sustain the career.

1:15:39There's your answer. You know, for some people that works. Yeah, but there was also loads of good stuff in there. I love the fact that he felt like really hurt, obviously by Eddie Gray and then spent years trying to prove him wrong. Fantastic. And it worked. Well done. I loved his stories about Arsene Wenger and the fact that Arsene never really came in and balled them out. He just spoke very briefly about tactics and that was enough. I love that. I love the you know what I was thinking of when he was telling us about Wenger coming in was our conversation with Steve Hansen of don't come in with rules just come in and just show them a better way don't come in and tell them this is the Tuesday Club's band just like don't ban it just see the consequences of actually not doing it because others are not doing it and I want to work you hard so he didn't have to come in and be a dictator he could just come in and seduce these guys to to follow him yeah I enjoyed it thanks mate yeah me too thank you I hope you enjoyed that conversation as well by the way if you check out YouTube you can see the moment that David Seaman and I talked about those three shirts that he brought in and also the two England caps that he brought with him as well so if you want to see that conversation you can find it on YouTube there'll be the link in the description to this episode and I hope you enjoyed it please hit follow please subscribe and we'll see you again for another episode of High Performance

1:17:31We'll see you next time. podcasts, book host reads, or run your own ads and track every conversion in real time. Same skills you already have, brand new results. Acast, acast.com slash advertise.