Dina Asher-Smith: Why Britain's Fastest Woman Feels Unaware of Her Achievements (E435)

0:04You are now Britain's fastest woman. You're a world champion. You're an Olympic medalist. 11 medals. Eight of them are gold. Dina Asher-Smith. Lita coming back. But Asher-Smith wins it again. I just want to say, I'm still next to the real life girl, man. She's the most decorated European athlete in history. If you want to achieve greatness, it's going to hurt. And when you've only got 10 seconds to do your job, even a tenth of a second that's spent thinking about something else, you need to just be focused absolutely on what you're doing. 2022 was a crazy year in my life. It was horrid. I had to do so much psychological work coming into that because the pain, to let go, I was in so much emotional pain.

0:44And to let go of that emotional pain, I would have cried. But when you're racing, you can't cry.

0:53Dina Rashford-Smith, back on High Performance. I am, hi. This time in person. Definitely. It was nice over Zoom, it's even better like this. Much better like this. That time in Zoom was a crazy time for everyone, so I'm really happy to be here in real life. Good. Well, this is also a crazy time for you once again, because you now have a place that no athlete in European Championship history has ever occupied before, and we are surrounded by your medals. They're all around us. Here they are. There's about 900 million more medals at your house, your parents' house, everywhere else where they live.

1:26But you are now Britain's fastest woman. You're a world champion. You're an Olympic medalist. You're the Sunday Times Sportswoman of the Year, twice in back-to-back years in 2018 and again in 2019. And now, after an extraordinary summer in Birmingham, you are the most decorated athlete ever at the European Championships. 11 medals, 8 of them are gold but I think what makes this a very interesting conversation is not where you are now it is how you've got to this point and what the future looks like you're 30 years old, still competing, still at the very top but I've really enjoyed for the last few weeks when we knew we were desperate to have another conversation looking at the kinds of things that you've been saying where you're saying there's very little left to prove yet you still know that there's an Olympic medal that is the kind of gold that you really want.

2:15So I think what I'd love to do today is understand what drives a champion when proving yourself is no longer something that you need to do, whether experience removes fear or creates a new kind of fear and what you have to change when the next generation start chasing you down, as we've seen over the last couple of weeks. Does that sound good? It sounds great. Should we go on this journey together? There's so much research. You know more about myself than I do. So great. Thanks. Interesting for me, when I started reading out the list of achievements, you start looking a bit shy and sheepish. Yeah, I just don't like think about the achievements very often.

2:50And even when people were doing the medal count for me throughout this season and over the last few years, until people were saying it to me and media or my teammates, I didn't know. I don't know how many medals I've got. I just try my best each time. I don't necessarily keep count. So it's been a really eye-opening period for me in the best and most fabulous way because I think the reason why I've got to this point is because I'm so hyper focused on each individual race each individual year yeah and even though I've had a lot of great stuff before I do understand that every time you step on the line it's a blank sheet of paper and you always have to give your best shot like every time you go into training you've got to try your hardest because um that's just the way our sport is so I think that's for better or worse I just never think about what's happened in the past.

3:41So with that in mind, when other people are being wiser than me sometimes and taking a step back, and they're proud of me for a long period of time, I actually had to rejig my mind because I just never look at myself like that. I just stay hyper focused in the moment. So people were like saying it last week. And I was like, yeah, okay, hey, yeah, like 11, 8, it's great, but I want this one now, and I want this one now. And it was only, I think, last week that I started to be like, you know what, all these people might be right. Like, it's actually quite cool. So I should be a bit, I should be proud of it.

4:16I should be happy. So that's probably why I'm still getting used to these things and celebrating them because I'm always trying to be better. But also got to give your achievements time to breathe. but this is where like the mind of a high performer is so fascinating to me because you didn't say there i am proud i am happy you said i should be proud i should be happy you notice things like they're very different yeah yeah that's really interesting i didn't notice that i mean i am i i guess i guess i don't know i just always want to be better and i think it's because i know that i have more inside me and even though i've won all those medals i remember like it was so funny I was doing TV last week and I laid them all out and it was so funny because they were so happy what was there.

5:03And they're right. Like you guys are all right in this situation, by the way. But all I can see is, OK, my first one was 2016. 2014, I was there, but I got hurt. Probably could have meddled. 2022, did not have the most fabulous one. Was not well during that championship. Didn't realise. Could have got more there. Could have got more this time. Hopefully I'm going to get more next time. But then I'm like, oh, LA, the schedule will. How many events will I be able to do? so all I see is like gaps. Really? Yeah. Isn't that interesting? So like sometimes I'm just like, could have been more. But is that not the reason why you've won so much though?

5:37I think so. It's not necessarily healthy. It's not something I'd advise kids to do or go to a primary school and have that mindset. But I think that's probably why we're at this number. Yeah. Because am I right in thinking that when you were little, Dame Kelly Holmes was your heroine and you drew a picture of yourself covered in medals? Is that right? Yeah, just one. And like when I was at school, I just, well, I think when I was in that formative phase of would you want to be, I remember I was watching the Olympic Games in Athens and I just thought she was so incredible. Like I loved her. I did a degree very into history.

6:09So I saw the wreath on her head. She looked like a Grecian goddess princess. And I've always been into fashion anyway. So I was totally loving it. And I was like, yep, that is what I want to do. I want to be that kind of person and so um yeah I drew that picture I'm very happy to have chased it yeah and I wonder whether that little girl would understand why you're happy with what you've done but still not satisfied yeah I think so she'll be just mind-blowing she'll be like can't believe we did it mate so I think this is more me because I think the I've already achieved all the dreams that I wanted to anyway like even when I became a professional athlete like it's very hard to even be somebody who can make a career out of this, somebody who can show up 10, 15 years after they get sponsored at first.

6:53And also somebody who is in the 0.01 % of an already really tough sport. Like I'm well aware that I'm already living an incredible dream, but I just think whilst you're doing that, you might as well go all the way and you might as well absolutely maximize your capacity and maximize your talent. And I'm aware that I just, in my opinion and in the opinion of the people I work with, in the scientists and everybody, that I've still got like a lot of capacity and a lot of topside to kind of chase. So if I'm not hitting it, I'm trying to figure out how I get there. So how quickly after a final, a medal, a success, a good meet, are you immediately thinking about what's next?

7:37Immediately. It's not great. Yeah, immediately. How immediate is immediately? like as soon as I'm even if I'm in the mix zone so you're still on the track still in your running yeah because I'm thinking if you're mid championships and we have four events I'm thinking okay media's great but if I want to start the 200 in the way that I need to run it I need to be recovered so I need to get a massage I need to eat a meal I need to be in ice bath I need to be in bed in about two hours and if these interviews go on forever I get a lot of reach but it's eased into my recovery and the 200 might feel a bit sticky so but I'm just one of those people like I'm always just moving and thinking so i think that non-elite athletes might look at dissatisfaction and think it's a negative and i actually think we can have a really interesting conversation here about dissatisfaction being one of the most powerful things in your armory yeah i think that's it because it doesn't mean that when you're dissatisfied it's not an indictment of your self-esteem your self-worth or your self-confidence it's just like yeah i'm where i am at because i'm good at this but that doesn't mean that I can't do better and I wouldn't necessarily say that I'm dissatisfied it's just that you can be fine and happy with what's going on but you can still want to achieve more and I think that's absolutely fine and what's the reason for needing more do you think have you looked I don't need more it's just I just think you might as well is this this sort of because a lot of people are just content right and they go do you know what I had a good at work, I walk the dog, I ate a biscuit before dinner and I might go on holiday in a few weeks and that's enough.

9:12That's me with 95 % of things in the world. But not with your athletics? I think with certain things in my track, like there are just certain things that I think when you're in a certain category of athlete and you very kindly read out these like accolades, I might as well fill the gaps, you know what I mean? I love that. You know, I just, while you're here and you have the chance to do stuff that your younger self would have never thought you could actually do, I just think you might as well go all the way. Especially if your body wants to and you've got the people around you, you just might as well go for it.

9:47And if you get it, congratulations. If you don't, you tried. But I just think you have to, like, while you can, just absolutely try your best. So that's probably why I just keep going. I think it's a powerful and brilliant mindset. Have you seen the new Pep Guardiola documentary? Absolutely not. I know I don't watch sports stuff can you imagine it's really good I know no but it's not I need to increase my culture on that side well there's a moment where he because I mean the access is incredible you know normally these documentaries they're kind of sanitised and they just show you the bits they want to show you I'm the person that sanitises so this is everything and there's a moment where he's standing up in front of the players and he's visibly emotional and he goes guys I am divorced from the most beautiful woman in the world I because I love her He goes, I still love her with all my heart and she loves me with all my heart.

10:33But we lost one thing, the passion. Guys, we lost the passion. And all I'm asking you to do is live with passion. You've got to have passion at the centre of what you're doing. If you don't have passion, you don't have anything. We'll be right back after a quick word from our partners.

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12:27and hearing you even just talk now i'm like that's you found something that i think is so special but so integral to being a human being which is to have a real passion for something and sometimes i'm so sad when i speak to people and i'm like god you you haven't found what you're passionate about yeah i think it is like that was a beautiful thing that he said by the way you might make me want to watch it so you should you should watch i should yeah but um yeah i think a passion and something that just lights a fire inside you because I just love racing even if it doesn't go my way I just feel like each performance is a jigsaw puzzle because when you get into it and you're in the company of some of the best athletes in the world you know that some people are having a great year some people aren't some people are having just the jigsaw puzzle isn't coming together and it's not that they don't have the capacity or they don't know how to do it or they're not, they're definitely, they execute, they know how to perform under pressure.

13:24It's just a jigsaw puzzle of all these different elements. And I don't know, I just find it fascinating just to pull all these things together. And maybe that's the passion. It's the journey. It's the adrenaline rush when you stand on the line. And even if you haven't had a great season, it's like, is this going to go well? Well, we're about to see. Or even if I'm running the mixed relay and I see somebody who's one of the fastest men in the world just hurtling at me, it's like, am I going to get trampled? Hey, we're going to find out the same time as the nation. Like, do you know what I mean?

13:54So have you got that freedom now? Because I imagine a young athlete, you're restricted. There's a lot of fear in what you're about to do. Have you lost that? I don't think I have that. Really? I don't think I ever really had that. Like, I've definitely had different levels of kind of running into the unknown. But I don't think I was ever fearful. I just think I'm grateful to know that, like, you're running in a straight line. Like, you're very blessed. There is lots of, not to get morose, but like people some people that are watching this at home they have really tough jobs they're doctors they're lawyers they're firefighters like some people actually run into danger and try and save people's lives every day like the most pressing thing in your life is how fast you get from a to b so there's already a bare minimum on how bad a bad day is and um i think i'm very comfortable knowing that what i do is a blessing what i do i'm very fortunate to do what i do i'm very fortunate to be able to prioritize how I chop a few tenths of a second or a hundredths of a second off a time to like cross the finish line just in front of somebody else and I think I just sit in that joy but at the same time run directly into the fire like I'm somebody that if you want to give me like a challenging task I'll be like okay sounds good do you have to do it nope but we're gonna just figure it out as we go along so um yeah but I think that the reason why I'm not scared I don't think there's anything to be scared of like nobody's dying I'm not making a life or death decision like if I say the wrong thing an economy or a fortune 500 country company is not about to crash like it just means that I need to either train a bit harder get a bit stronger or not make the same mistake that I made last time so would you take us into what's going on in your head on competition day let's go back to Birmingham just a short amount of time ago is there a moment where you go into the zone and maybe lose a bit of this freedom or the way that you're talking now, the way you're thinking, like, are you like this all the way through to the moment that you go down on the blocks?

15:50Yeah, because I think I always perform better when I'm not overthinking. So sometimes I'm just better making sure that my lip gloss is nice. And yeah. But I think that's really, you know, it could be a throwaway comment, but actually that is, that tells us a lot. Well, I spend all my time micro-analysing how to get there, but I think you get to the point when you're at race day or at least in the summer season when you need to release control, the more you overthink it and over process it while you're doing it, the slower you're going to run. And have you experienced that before? Absolutely, all the time.

16:18It takes a lot of practice and control to take a step back and not overthink it. So I always run best when I'm kind of like just, I'm just in it. And I'm just kind of flowing with it. And I'm not overthinking each element. Yeah, I've got certain things that I might need to remember. but only one or two things but um some people can really overthink or overthink's the wrong word but every personality is different they can really process each section i don't work best like that i just work best when i run free i'm just thinking about getting through the line first getting through the line well or strong or relaxed or anything and then um just remaining in the moment rather than watching the moment in your head if that makes sense yeah explain that for me So like I'm better just, I feel like if you overthink something, you're kind of almost like you're watching a TV of yourself do it and you're trying to make sure that you do what's on that TV.

17:16But I prefer to just be in the TV, if that's making sense. I prefer to just be in the moment. And I've always, I think most people in our sport perform best like that. But I think for some people like me, it takes a bit of work to get to that place. And what about the motivation to keep on taking yourself to that place? Because I was watching the telly, funnily enough, after Birmingham and you were like, look, your exact words were, I don't really have much to prove. And I think that at this point, you're really, like you're seeing what you can maximize from your body and you're trying to have as much fun as possible while doing it.

17:49And I think that is very interesting to me because so many athletes are fueled by something external, by proving themselves to the world, by pleasing their coach, by pleasing their parents, by doing something that brings external validation. I kind of don't, I don't see that from you. and that makes me wonder what is your fuel at this point in your career I just think that I have some things that I can do I'm not somebody to throw out my personal targets because then BBC I'm not that kind of athlete but I just think there is one thing on your CV that we all know I'd love Olympic even if I got to run a 400 guys I mean not a flat 4 but like the 4x4 God forbid you'll see me crawl over that line but I'm like let's just try and get that for myself because that would be nice.

18:34If I don't get it, I've still had a great career. It's all good. But there are just some things that I think, like, when I look at my numbers, like, I could do. I could achieve. For what reason? Just, I don't want to swear, but I'm just like, might as well. You can swear, haven't you? I was going to say, just for shits and giggles, isn't it? Like, just to say, yeah, like, I did that and I ran that time and I did this, I did that. but I used to be fueled by I guess chasing medals chasing titles but when you kind of done that it's like great and what else motivates you and I just think on my times I have some upside so I'd like to chase that and I also just want to have loads of fun I just want to step on the line and be free and really enjoy the crowd enjoy the atmosphere and just have fun because I don't think that's a privilege that everybody always has during their careers whether that's sport or whether that's anything else so um yeah you remind me of keely you know in that respect she's fab i love she is but she's also one of the very very few athletes who i've interviewed in this setting and like you they've prioritized i just want to have fun yeah you can see on your on your socials the way that you are around the track the way you are with other athletes the way she is as well it's about bringing fun into it.

19:56And I just, I suppose I wonder whether bringing, allowing yourself to have fun is liberating or scary, or whether it starts out being scary when you first decide to. I think it is a bit, it's a bit about relinquishing control, I think. Because sometimes, it depends where you are in your career, depends, every performance, they're all like little logic puzzles, in my opinion, they're all achieved differently. Say you've been hurt, and as a sprinter, you know, hey, if I've had a hamstring injury, my biomechanics needs to be perfect otherwise that hamstring is gonna go bye-bye on international tv so there are times that you really need to be locked in for whatever reason or the other but when everything's been flowing and you're in a good mental space and you feel fabulous you might as well have fun because those moments can be few and far between and when you're in good shape or when you're winning medals you don't know how long that's going to last for and I think you should just enjoy it and soak it up but I think for me that perspective came through a lot of experience as well and also having the privilege of talking to athletes that are competitors and now I'm fortunate enough to call people that you know you whatsapp and the ladies that race me when they're older and they just look back and they're like yeah like I won the Olympic Games I won this I won however many golds at world champs but like I was having a really tough time I wish I'd smiled I wish in that moment I just soaked it up and been proud of my achievements because all the pictures I see it myself like I could just see in my eyes I wasn't happy and when you hear people that you regard as your icons and your heroes talk like that you're like yeah let me just listen to them and just enjoy I'm so pleased you've found this during your career we interviewed Fernando Alonso the two time Formula 1 world champion who told us he doesn't remember the day he became Formula 1 world champion because all he was thinking about was what's next how do I defend it how do I become a two time world champion not a one time world champion after two he wants three and I it's rare that an athlete finds this no I was going to say he's saying that I'm like yeah he's absolutely right because sometimes I think that's also the internal nature of sport though because as soon as you get one thing people are moving on to the next people always want to say even if it's good oh but the next one oh but the next time oh but the next Olympics oh and it's like hey I just achieved one of the greatest things ever let's just be happy for five minutes and then we can start to process but that's something that I also need to learn myself you still struggle with that?

22:13not struggle but I'm just somebody who always I'm very in a good way self-critical so even if it's a good race I'm like could have been better could have been smoother through this phase could have taken the bend differently can we talk about the form that that takes then because this conversation so far has been really lovely and it's been smiling and happy and it's been about freedom and joy yeah not having to prove anything and getting to a place in your career where you are still fast but you also have clarity of thought because you're experienced enough but there is also that moment where you need to go right now I need to be the best I can be.

22:47So what form does your self-analysis take after a race? Breaking down what could have been better. Oh, I've got really incredible scientists that will literally send me a full-page document on where I could have done better, even if I win. Oh, wow. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Even if we're in a relay team, even if we've won the race, we'll still get a page full of our numbers and red, green, red, green, even if we've broken a British record. And what sort of data are they getting there then? Everything. So absolutely everything, everything. there was even a race when I think I might have clipped my toe and my biomech was like yeah on step five you missed that I was like how did you see that I didn't even know I did that and he was like known you since you're 17.

23:24Is that from them watching it have you got they've got cameras sometimes it's a one-page report sometimes even if you've been had cameras when you're training you're getting a three four page report with visuals and graphs and writing and like obviously I know how I feel so as you get older and more experienced and more knowledge they will also to have conversations with you, to feedback. Because even they might have numbers and they might think something's slower, but it might have paid off later down the track. So, you know, it's a dialogue. But no, I know you can do better because somebody will literally tell you very soon after, like, could have done better.

23:58And do you love that information? I love it. Like, I did my best. No, I love it. I think it's fascinating. I think, like, it's an incredible thing about the human body because I do believe that we're continuously seeing how far we can go. And even when you think you can do better, and that might be what you have in yourself right now, it doesn't mean that that's the maximum you've got in yourself next year or the year after or across your whole career. So I think it's fascinating. It's just like, keep learning. And that's the physical stuff. The mental stuff is also fascinating because we've seen at Birmingham the kind of, she's been on the scene a while, but the real emergence of Amy Hunt.

24:34Oh, she's phenomenal, yeah. Beat you over 100 metres this year. And two. Beat you to the European 200 metre title as well. won four goals in Birmingham then stands next to you and again I was watching on the telly as I am and she goes oh I'm here with the goat right I wonder how you kind of balance this idea of mentoring and working and as you say oh she's great loving someone else's success but at the same time being absolutely single minded in your determination that you want to beat her I think it comes very naturally because we kind of since we've been really young we've in this sport you've always had the individual and you have the team So there's a time to be all anew and there's a time to be together.

25:14And you understand there's only so far you can ever go all anew because 20 minutes later or two days later, you're a team. So I think sometimes people look from the outside and normally you're used to seeing individual sports or team sports. I guess, I don't know if Formula 1's like it because they still compete. It's just points when they come together, right? Formula 1? Yeah. No, the first person you want to beat is your teammate. Oh, sorry. I'm like harsh. So because they're in the same car, basically. So the only direct comparison is if someone's got exactly the same raw materials as you. So the first, if the F1 driver, the first person they need to beat is their teammate.

25:51That's a bit rude. And the worst thing is to be beaten by your teammate. Because that's the true comparison. And that's the, it is, but that's the interesting thing about Formula One is like. Yeah. And for us, it's like, if there's more of us doing well, when we come together, we can, look at me, I'm like, we can get these Americans. yeah that's where all of that you know what i mean it's like so yeah obviously you want to be the best always but it's not a bad thing that you've got three four and particularly when the british ladies are five six seven girls running fast that is not a bad thing as long as you're all on the same page when it comes to your team events like that is not a bad thing and if the men are running fast as well that's great because we also do events together so everyone lifts everyone else in my opinion yeah then there's the moment where you want to be oh of course so how what's the switch like in your head uh it's just very natural it's like i mean yeah i want to run i want to be the fastest i want to win the race but at the same time i don't know i think that's a very good i think i see it as natural so i don't even know how to describe it there's just a time and a place for everything if that makes sense yeah but i think it's something that's very natural in our sport so even when you were take for example darryl i've been racing darryl since we were 15 maybe even younger like 11 so we'd have individual races and then when we were even at school level representing the southeast of England or England you line up in your England kit next to each other and then an hour later you've got a relay and we've got to beat Scotland so I think it's just always this kind of balancing between that and I remember when I when we were really young and we got the opportunity to speak to people that have done more than us I remember Michael Johnson one of the first things he said to me when I was younger he was like you can't take your rivalries too seriously he was like this is beyond sport he was like when it's all said and done it can be quite challenging to move from the world of athletes and non-athlete and when it comes down to it there's only going to be a very small amount of you across the world that knows what it's like to stand on the world championship final start line in front of 80 ,000 people who are screaming and you can't hear anything and then you hear nothing and you can hear a pin drop and you have to have the moment of your lives like there are not many people in the world that get this experience that understand what you go through being away from home all the sacrifices the hard work and the intensity so yeah for this period of your life you race each other and then you come into a team but this is only a fraction of your life and for the rest of your life these are people that if you do well you're going to see them every week mate you're going to be on tv together you're going to be at award shows together because hopefully you would have created a legacy and I think that's the mindset that I've always had because that's a talk that when I was in the futures pathway of British athletics that's exactly what we were told from the beginning and I think that's probably why we've had such a good era of relay running as well because that was the tone that we started with yes yeah interesting yeah and I think my first senior relay coach also said as a nation of British athletes you have such an incredible opportunity as the relay and I know I can't keep going on about it but this was how I was introduced to the senior like I my first senior best and my first senior medal was a relay medal in 2013 in Moscow when I was 17 and yeah you can run the individual yeah you can do well but at that time we had an American coach he was like don't forget your medal counts and don't forget that as a nation that has a lot of good sprinters, you can always, like, do incredible things as a team.

29:22And not every country has the privilege of that because they might only have one or two fast people. And, you know, you need four. So, I don't know. I talked a lot. That makes sense. I just think we've, you know, it's just, it's part of our sport. You have to be able to go... So you need them, but then you need to beat them. Exactly. And it's the same for absolutely everybody on that track. And, like, you always hear athletes that are from the smaller nations. and say like, oh, I wish I had a relay team. They always wish they had teammates. But is it not a part of you, though, that looks at Amy and just goes, not now, because I really do want that gold.

29:52Not at all. Really? Not at all. I don't work like that. I don't work like that. I think everybody has a season. Everybody has a time. Like, I think I have a lot of upsides, so I'm not really, that's not really where my mindset is. I'm just, honestly, even in messages that I've been talking to, Imani, everything, how can we push forward as a unit? How can we push forward as a unit? So you'll still share everything you know with everyone around, with all those? Yeah, but we have similar scientists. I mean, maybe not necessarily individual info, but when it comes to the relays and how we can work best when we've got changes, because we all need to interact and be within that 20-meter zone very quickly and minimize that time.

30:31I'm getting really technical. We have to understand how each other accelerates, where they accelerate best, and how I can give people enough space to be their best self. So you do have to understand your competitors as well. if that's making sense. Like we really have an event that's together. I think it's cool. Do you have to communicate? Do you know what I mean? Yeah, and it's rare. It doesn't happen. Not in all countries. In many sports. Well, even in other sports. In many sports, no. So I think, or even I think the 4x4 is the best example because they really get, well, from what I've seen, they really get along because it's such a grueling event.

31:05Like with the pain, again, couldn't be me, but if I have to, it is what it is. Then you'll do it. And then they come together. though but because i think it's them against pain they're really united yeah like they just feel like they're in gladiator or something like lining up against pain so yeah it's an interesting environment internally can we talk about um what you do when things aren't perfect for you yeah because you create this like performance bubble right but then life doesn't always go perfectly so maybe the start's bad or maybe someone unexpectedly comes past you and in the middle of the event, you're thinking, how does that happen?

31:43Or your body doesn't quite feel right or the plan that you've created with your coaches disappears out the window. We'll be right back after a quick word from our partners.

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33:37what's the kind of mental process that stops one unexpected or unfortunate moment from becoming panic oh i think it's just a bit uh self-confidence self-worth understanding that even if things don't go right in one moment it's not it's not an indictment on who you are or your capacity of your quality of athlete it means in that moment this did not go right and as long as you completely understand why that happened how to prevent it and make sure it doesn't happen next time there's no reason to get too bogged down just fix it and move on um yeah just keep it pushing and this speed at which your events happen do you have the opportunity for clarity of thought during the events uh i try not to try and just i this is what i mean but i do better when i'm not overthinking if i'm too hyper aware i think sometimes you spend more time thinking than you do doing and when you've only got 10 seconds or 20 22 21 seconds to do your job by any even a tenth of a second that's spent thinking about something else you need to just be focused absolutely on what you're doing and you've got hours days years to analyze it afterwards just not in the 10 seconds that you're doing it yes yeah because that's the ridiculous thing about your world is let's say you run in a heater semi-final then a final that's 30 seconds of work and it's been years to get to those 30 seconds in which you're being judged so have you managed to remove your self-worth from these medals or from the results from the performances and how have you done that?

35:10I just think I've always had lots of people around me that care about me as a person I think I've never really been too tied to my achievements and I think also going up in the sport and understanding I've been very fortunate to have a lot of competitors that have turned friends, particularly as they start to retire, which also as you get older, you turn up and you're like, oh my gosh, all my mates are like, good luck. Does that sharpen your mind? Not really. Sorry, I went on the tangent, but I mean, not really. I think it's, I think it's just, I think it's also important to, just remember as an athlete, what we do is an honour and a privilege, but like, you're like, as a human being, whether you win or lose this race, like keep it pushing.

35:50Like as long as you're a good person, a nice person, you treat people well, you treat people with respect. Like it's not an indictment on your personality. Try your best, but you don't have to, you know. I take more self-worth from being nice. It's a good person. Yeah, I think that's more normal. You arrive for training. You're in Texas. It's never cool, but it's really hot. And your coach says, this is what we're doing today. What is the training session that makes you go, oh my God, is it really that? What's the one you dread? Excellent question. I think what those sessions are in a cold climate and a hot climate has completely changed.

36:27So like this time, three weeks ago, I was training in Texas and every day, well, my weather report, I was screenshotting it and sending it to everybody. Like, look at me, I'm dying. Pray for me. It was like 38, 41, 40, 39. Like that was the temperature from like the hottest part of the day is like 2 p.m. And it was just it was stuff that you shouldn't be outside. Apple is giving you a heat advisory. We're getting those little buzzes. Like, do you know what I mean? like we shouldn't be outside but here we are and running and I think anything that they're all bad in that weather they're all bad I think if you're doing blocks because you've got to pay attention you can obviously know when your body's trying really hard to self-regulate and there's not much shade there might be a bit of a breeze but it's coming from Arizona so the breeze is hot so it's like you're opening an oven as opposed to a sea breeze and if you've got anything you've got to concentrate or touch the ground you're going to get you're going to get burns it's really hard to concentrate when it's that hot so your attention you really need mentally to be fresh whether you've got ice towels ice vests ice coolers ice any kind of ice you try that but then obviously if you have to run around and around you're probably more likely to vomit when it gets to that temperature let me just talking like this is normal because your body is just struggling to like self-regulate and keep you in the room you've got to make sure that you've hydrated but not over hydrated because you don't want to cramp because if you cramp your day's done if you vomit your day's pretty much done like you can run after it but you're likely to get injured because you've lost all your nutrients so I think when I'm in that climate it's just about making sure that I can train and I can focus that is the most challenging thing everything's hard and what is see look now that's not normal that's what that's when I have to check with people I'm just like yeah that's just that just comes with it that's fine and then people go hmm i think i think when you're talking about not throwing up you hear that a lot of mathics when you're saying oh i hope you don't pass out yeah you didn't pass out i mean that can't be a regular part of no that's the weather's not always like that that's like really rough times yeah yeah i haven't passed out but you've felt absolutely it's time to go inside yeah or like when you're doing something simple and it's a lot tougher and then you go inside you're like oh yeah it was way too hot so what gets you through those moments i just try not to think about it that's not possible it is look at me i'm i told you i'm strange it is um i've got i'm very fortunate to have lots of great staff that have my health and well-being as their priority she says in 41 degrees but um so i I know my coach will cut the session if it's getting a bit too spicy.

39:12And I'm just trying to hit the times. I'm trying to execute. I know. I'm trying to just execute as well as I can. So many people, though, if they're in the gym and it starts to hurt, they will just want to do another set or – because your brain just says, do you know what? I think I've been doing it. This is when I say I've got to check that I'm in the room making sense of people because I think, for me, I've been doing this a long time. I think my – I really don't mind about pain. I think I've got over pain like when I was like 20, 21 because if you're doing this job and you want to be the best in the world at this, it's going to hurt and I think that's just something you have to get over very quickly otherwise you're not going to be very successful.

39:48Like even all the people you see running races, like Keely running her eight, people running a marathon, people running a mile, like it hurts. Like people don't get to these insane performances without a bit of pain. I'm not advocating for that. It's not healthy. Kids, please don't follow that example. But I think if you want to achieve greatness in these physical exertion sports, like where you really are testing your max every single time. It's going to hurt. Increasing that max is going to hurt. These races, sometimes when you're eight races deep in a championship, it's going to hurt. And I think you just have to get used to it.

40:20And so just ignore it, just get over it. It's like Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, it hurts. Okay, what's next? It's like that great military phrase, everybody wants to eat, few people are prepared to hunt. Exactly. Yeah, I just think it's just part of the job. It's like, you want to be elite at this. It's not going to be, it's not, I mean, we're not in a nice and icy sport. This is not, and I mean that from a physical perspective. Like, it does hurt. Like, you will be times when you're like, and... You're rewarded for discomfort in many ways. Because getting yourself to those places is really where the growth can often be.

40:57Yeah, definitely. Like, some days you don't have to be in pain to grow. I would like to say that before the parents are like, this isn't great. But yeah, normally you tend to find yourself increasing your maximum and increasing what you can do when you're in that moment where you think possibly, I can't possibly finish this rep. I can't possibly do another rep. And then you do. And not only do you, but it's great. And you're like, oh, that was fine. And then next time you know, okay, I thought I could do five, but I can do six. I'm not saying you need to always push, but there may be, if you know you can do six, then they can be better quality and they can be sharper and they can be more biomechanically correct.

41:37You can really charge through the line. There are these tweaks that you can do once you've realised that, yeah, okay, I can dance in this arena. I didn't think I could, but I can. And we need to move forwards. Yeah. I think it's important for people to hear this because they see the medals, they see the victory celebrations, they see the success, but this is the cost. This is the cost of that sort of stuff. Yes, it definitely hurts. and you you've taught yourself or you've learned or you've developed the skills to cope with that kind of yeah I just kind of forget about it because you know everybody's in the same boat I think being in a training group helps because everybody's in pain yeah then it's just like why would I mean about the pain everybody feels everybody's on the floor everybody's scrambling for ice and water like everybody's in the same boat you know can I can I talk about yeah you're definitely different yeah that's why I have to check that I'm making sense because I know it's not normal you're making sense but it's also not normal It's not normal.

42:31Two things can be true at the same time. Exactly. Everybody's trying to survive, you know, it's normal. I want to talk about a tough moment that no matter how much sprinting you do or how much of an ethics mindset you develop, it's not going to prepare you to deal with it. If you're happy to talk about it, I wanted to talk about Cicely and your… Oh, my grandma's death. Yeah, that was… 2022 was a crazy year in my life. It was horrid. Yeah. What was your fondest memory of her? I've got so many emotional. I've got so many. I think that I'll be here all day if I was going to talk about the fabulous things.

43:05Like even my handwriting reminds me of her because she's the one that literally taught me how to write. She was one of those very typical Caribbean women that's like, you know, was always matching, was always looking chic, always had a nice little hat on and was always like grace and dignity. Like you will never lose your elegance, your grace and your dignity. So that's how I was brought up. And even like she had this beautiful cursive handwriting and I've got very similar handwriting. and that's because she would be looking over me like right prettier than that right prettier than that so I I have loads of fond memories but I think the thing that I'm most grateful for is just she always instilled in me to hold my head up high and just remember that um yeah and do you know what it is just holding your head up high and always carrying yourself with grace and dignity and whether you're having the best time or not such an easy time and this um has definitely smooth the up and downs that I've had in my own sport just remember to keep keep going on as long as you have your morals your grace and your dignity you're doing great so just keep your head held high and keep trying your best and you're going to be good yeah you've spoken since the start of this conversation about not overthinking things about being in the moment about not being outside yourself looking in about being in flow were you able to do those absolutely not that was psychologically the most challenging time in my life because I think to be able to do all these things and it goes for any time when you've got any kind of mental disturbance if I'm making sense so I count that as it was way more than a mental disturbance but something that affects your mentality yeah you can't flow you can't it's really hard to be outside your body and I think with my grandma I was particularly proud of the world championships in 2022 in Oregon like okay I didn't win but it was an amazing series of races for me probably the best series of races I've ever put together and I'm I can definitely run faster but at that time it was amazing and I had to do so much psychological work coming into that because the pain to let go I was in so much emotional pain and to let go of that emotional pain I would have cried but when you're racing you can't cry so to be in that flow state where you're just in the moment and everything the moment for me was very painful and then my psychologist was who's phenomenal she's a phenomenal psychologist like always I'm always sending her Christmas presents always Christmas hampers because I'm like my career is so much better because of you whatever you need for the rest of your life you're good but um she was like sat down with me and she'd done a great job of kind of helping me kind of come through this and she sat down before the world championships like how much do you want this I was like would you mean and she was like look I'm going to be real with you we're going to have to really go through grief in like the next five days so you can come out the other side and you can tap into your emotions because you run best when you're emotionally happy and vibrant and smiling and that's not authentic for you anymore so we need to go into your deepest darkest most grieving thoughts like we're going to talk every single day and we're going to meet every single day we're going to go for walks you're going to cry it's going to be painful and you I don't think you're she's right I don't think you're ever going to have to have a psychological push like this in your career again but if you want to perform on the other side of it we need to get you through that emotional phase of grief so you can unlock your emotions to perform that was hard like when she said that to me and she was like I don't know if you're ready it's going to be really hard like if you want a mediocre championships fine but I'm going to ask you this because I know you don't want a mediocre championships I was like obviously I don't want a mediocre championships and she was like well we're going to do this and that was a really challenging time for me and I had to focus on really connecting not only move through so many negative emotions in a very short space of time and move through is the wrong word because you're always grieving I think when you lose somebody but just get through that very raw phase yeah in some sort of protracted time frame that was for races like that's that's not normal that's wild yeah but she was like neurologically in your brain as I said she's very good at her job she was like it's possible from a neurological perspective we're going to move through that and you're not going to be healed or happy or anything but you are going to be able to engage with the emotions that takes you from 80 capacity to 110 and I was like well we've got 10 days till the champs like might as well do it like what have I got to lose and then I went and had one of the most focused and well executed championships of my life because I was in a position where I could feel and I could go back into the moment because that whole season I did feel like I was watching myself compete because engaging with who I am and being smiley and being vibrant and just standing on the line and being ready to roar and to fight it just wasn't there because I was already fighting to like be there in the first place so that was one of the hardest earned championships of my life but I learned so much about myself I learned so much about psychology as well how powerful it is and how much it has the power to transform your performances.

48:04Like I really felt it. But yeah, that was intense. That was a lot. That was a challenging 10 days. And what was she able to do to help you to process as much as you could in that short time? Because a lot of people actually listen to this podcast and reach out to us because they come to this for a bit of help when they're going through a tough time. And a lot of it does revolve around grief actually, people that just can't move forwards. well I think she said you'll never I think my mum was good with this but you're never going to move forward you never I think with grief you never ever feel the same I'm not my I feel like I grew up during that period before my grandma died I was a child now I'm an adult that for me was the switch in life because she passed away from cancer so it was a very challenging like I saw it I saw way too much saw way too much so um it was I feel like I lost my childhood through that summer and through that period or my somewhat naivety and grief will never leave you just get better at dealing with it so I was just hoping to be on the other side on a protracted time frame and my she's done it for other things that have happened since in my career as well she's like if you really want to move through this and almost flush yourself out emotionally neurologically you need to say and talk about the most painful things that you need to go right into the wounds and we need to know no beating around the bush I don't have time for you to dance around the niceties she's I'm not going to tell anybody obviously it's confidential just me and you we'll go away from everybody you need to cry you need to feel all of it like and you're going to be emotionally exhausted like we'll do the worst bits on your training days that you know they're not the big low training days but she's like I need you to go right for the pain and you need to discuss it and we need to process it and I need to talk about it with you I need to talk about how you feel even any regrets that you have with her more time you would have said the things you wish you would have said anything that's lingering we need to discuss it it needs to be out on the table so i can help you work through this both emotionally and neurologically and it's very tough because she's asking some very very bare questions what was the sort of question that opens you up the most well it was just like do you have any regrets do you think she would be proud of you do you no oh yeah no she was like we're going she's as i said very good at her job not mentioning names I don't want her to get poached by anyone.

50:20But she's on my face. Always the competitor. Yeah, always. Absolutely not. But she was just like, we're going through this. I don't want you to line up and have any, well, you will always have emotional baggage, but I want you to be as clear as possible so you can stand on the line. You can feel, you can connect emotionally. You can connect to powering through the track. You can connect to the crowd. You can connect and open yourself up to the environment, to perform I don't want any emotional uh rains on you so we're gonna you're gonna go through this and I think it's a beautiful place that I've got to that level with her as a psychologist where so that means even if there's something quite challenging that you have to go through now I know that she knows how to get it out of you so any that's why I also think any challenge that I might come across if it's mental or anything like because I've been through so much especially in that period.

51:16Like I know that there's ways to move through this. I know that it's only temporary. I know that if I have the right conversations and do the right thing and work with the right people, like nothing is insurmountable. So I think that's also why I'm able to stand on the line so free. And if things don't go to plan, there's always a solution because even with something like grief, I had somebody walk me through it. It was painful. Zero out of 10. Don't recommend it. But it was possible to perform through that period. I wonder whether that, in a strange way, as much as you wouldn't want to have lost Sislin, whether that almost gave you more freedom because it's like, if you can perform and medal in this...

51:56I could do anything. What could stop you? Absolutely. I have a lot of those moments in my career, whether they're public and known or not, like even if it's through illness that you weren't sure and all of that, like when you've kind of performed in conditions that are just in the absolute opposite to an ideal performance environment, and even if it hasn't gone 100 % the way you wanted, even if it's like 85%, then who am I to stop, put any limits on what I can achieve when everything might be a bit smoother? And I think that's why I just, even if things don't go your way, like there's always room for growth.

52:28There's always room that you can do better because I just haven't reached my top side. That's it really. And did it change your relationship with winning, that kind of grief? Absolutely. There are a few achievements through my career that I'm the proudest of. Funnily enough, I think the career highlights that you even like read out, they are obviously great, but they're not necessarily the ones that were forged in, that were the hardest one. Like sometimes if you have a smooth year and everything's lovely, great, fab, it's beautiful, I love that for you. But there are some times when you've earned a bronze and you've had to literally claw your way to that bronze medal that even though it's a bronze and people are like, came third, like you're just holding it and you're so proud.

53:12Because the path there has not been easy. And sometimes it's much more challenging than the gold. And I think that's also the beautiful thing about sport and our sport, because you just never know what's going on in somebody's life. So somebody might be coming fifth and they might be used to winning, but they might have come fifth that year and they're so happy. They're bouncing around and you're looking at them like, you're a multiple time Olympic champion, like fifth. You are used to much more than fifth. They're like, oh, you'd never guess. This happened, this happened, this happened, this happened.

53:39I didn't even know I was going to be here. my leg's hanging on and I managed to come fifth like they're so happy and then the next year bang top of the podium you know because they're learning about their capacities even in the times that are tough and I think I've had a few years of that where things haven't gone according to plan but nevertheless I've been able to do and do things that if some people had the same season they would just have wrapped it up and um but that's also what motivates you to know that you have so much more to come in the future as well I think there's something else which I've been impressed by and I say this as the dad of a little girl who is a teenager and sort of emerging into the world and becoming a young woman from being a little girl and I see the things that you've said and the changes that have happened around the way they're filming young athletes females it's good on the start line you know as a dad it felt inappropriate at times and and I'm so pleased they brought the changes in but also the way you've spoken about female athletes having periods and how much that changes your body and you're totally right what you say that if this was something that affected everyone, not just female athletes, and it changed your biomechanics completely and your hormones.

54:43You know, I saw this thing... I have a lot of studies. It said the other day, if men had the same cycle, if men had the same physiological change as a woman when they go through their menstrual cycle, it's the equivalent to a man aging 150 years in 24 hours. Can you... Seriously. We'd have think pieces. Can you imagine how different the world would be if that's what went on. But I think there's also an element of that as a legacy piece for you. I don't know whether you've ever thought about that. Yeah, I have. There's actually, there's so many things that I love to do in the world and like, I'm sure like throughout my career and afterwards, there are things I'm going to be able to do touchpoint on and that is definitely one of them.

55:27But I definitely think it's a really underexplored and, sorry, it's a really underexplored area because like there was a certain point I guess in my career I think before even 2022 maybe every bar every major hamstring or back injury I had was to do my menstrual cycle and it might not have been directly but it's like if you've lost sleep and why did you lose sleep oh oh your pelvic position is annoying why oh this and it's just all been collected I was getting really fast straight I have to admit that I was just getting really annoyed and like I am very fortunate to have a great team so they were able to do better and I don't have the same problems now but we were able to work towards that and really shoring up that period every month but yeah there are some of us that everybody's periods are different and it could just put a complete sledgehammer through your performance once a month and sometimes you have if you have particularly bad periods you have no idea what the symptoms might be every month like they might be consistent but they might not they might get a complete curveball you might suddenly not be able to engage your lower core in the same way and as a sprinter like if you're not engaging your lower core you've got different bodies parts of your bodies that are taking strain and then how big oh how strong sorry are those bodies that aren't used to taking strain how long are they going to hold do you have a championship this week do you have eight races and eight warm-ups this week oh is your hamstring and hip flex gonna like that oh okay if your hip flexor turns off what happens your calves get overloaded Yeah, that's very science-y, but I think there needs to be a lot more work done.

57:07And I think we're, are we getting better? Eh, the TV angle thing was a good change, but I do think that there's a lot of scope to be done. I think there's a lot of people that want to do the work, but I think it needs investment because, you know, money makes everything go around. Everybody can have the intention. If it's on a volunteer basis, you're not going to get the greatest minds in the world together spending the time that's required to really make any real headway on it. Yeah, and actually I don't think that this isn't just a sports conversation when it comes to the menstrual cycle because you've got women who are walking into a big meeting and they don't feel like they felt last week because things are different.

57:42And I look at a little girl like Flo, my daughter, and I think you understand your body really well, right? And you've got loads of people around you saying, listen, we've got all the data. This is why this week you're not going to run like you ran last week. What about the 15, 16-year-old club athlete female performers who are berating themselves and massively critical. They're confused. They're like, why am I three-tenths down? Am I not good enough anymore? Maybe I should sack this whole thing off. Like, I think for them, it's a really important conversation. Or even they haven't slept the whole week and they're like, am I anxious?

58:12Do I need to do better on my mental? It's like, no, babe. Your cool body temperature is through the roof. You can't settle down to sleep. The more you talk about this stuff, the better it is for people that don't have a voice. But I know that even if, say, you've got women, you're in a boardroom and suddenly they're trying to give a big presentation and they get a hot flush, it's tough. like there's a lot of things that I think as a society we should be working harder to have more open conversations with and yeah maybe solutions but also just make everybody feel more comfortable with whether that's men women mothers fathers all of the people around so that's why I want us to have this conversation because I think most guys might shy away from this definitely do you know what I mean even with my team I'm so fortunate they're like how are you feeling I'm like overall all I'm good but I did not sleep at all last night I had like three hours sleep start my period and I'm very fortunate that I work with people my physios like okay cool we know what thank you for letting me know we're going to loosen off your back we're going to do this we're going to do that and then my coach will be like we'll adjust that it is how it should be and I'm fortunate but I do make a point to work with people who are that way inclined as well I think it's an essential part performance particularly at this end of my career like I don't have time for people who are going to be funny okay I've always got time for all people but you know I'm not going to necessarily give my time to people who are going to be funny about it because if I want to perform at my max I have to have people that are willing to go there with all of you and not just cherry pick you know what they want to talk about I do still have a daughter there that when I try and talk to her about periods she literally will leave the room and be like dad give it a few years dad I'm having this conversation with you wait till she hits 18 21 exactly yeah it's all on the table yeah um last time we spoke um there was one person who you were fulsome in your praise of and that's John Blackie yeah who has he just retired?

59:56He had his retirement due yesterday. Amazing. I was there. He was, him and his family were kind of emotional. It was very beautiful. Yeah. Well, now is the perfect moment then to pay homage to him and what he did for your career. Because even when you stopped working with him, I imagine that you were probably still relying on a bit of his wisdom now and then. So much. Okay, so. On the end of the phone. Really? On the end of the phone. So, in honour of John Blackie's amazing career for you and for many other athletes. how would you describe what he did for you in your career? I think what he did for me in my career actually can't be put into words.

1:00:32I think for me, just trying to say it as a sound, but I don't think that I could achieve the depth or even have enough superlatives for what he did for me and not just me, so many other athletes that he's coached. Because obviously I went on to have a career in athletics. But I think when you have such a good man as a coach and somebody that prioritises you as a person, before you as a performer, it unlocks so many things across your life. Like you get confidence, you get the self-esteem, you get the sense of if I work hard, I can do anything. Therefore, whatever industry you want to go and be in, whether that is sport or you want to go and work as a doctor or you want to be a lawyer or you want to do anything, somebody like that has taught you if you want to be good at something and if you want to give something a shot, you commit to it and this is how you do it.

1:01:18And I've always been grateful for somebody, for John, because he is so steadfast and so calm and so honest that you know that you can always trust him. And again, as I said, there's not enough superlatives and he's somebody that we're always going to be on the phone. What's the story that you share that best sums up your relationship? That's a good question. It's hard because we worked together for 20 years and we still work together now. I saw him yesterday. there's a few. I think definitely when I've had times when I've been really upset with my performance, say I've been injured at a really terrible, just a terrible timing or something like that.

1:02:04He's always had the ability to like keep my head above water and make sure that I'm in a spot or even if I'm just not in the best mood, he's like, just go on the start line and I run a crazy time. And he's like, right, okay, so next steps we're gonna, that was excellent. and now we're going to push on, yeah? So he's always been able to kind of manage me emotionally and he's known me like the back of his hand. But he's also really fun and training with him was always fun. I really struggled to put into words, really struggled to put into words the influence that he's had on me and my career and also so many athletes because I think he's just phenomenal.

1:02:43I keep encouraging him. I'm like, please, even yesterday I asked him, please write a book. He's like, no. I was like, okay. Well, the answer's no. He never wants any of the fame or the applauded or the attention that I think other people in his position might readily take. Because for him, it's always been about the athletes. And even though I definitely like remunerated him, he was really keen on never taking a fee, like which is crazy. So obviously, like I found other ways to like make it even and balance it out. So whether his wife needs something for his house or anything, like we definitely there was definitely stuff going on for my own sanity but at the forefront of his mind was like he just he just wants to do right by people he really loves coaching he loves track and field he loves developing people he likes seeing the spark in people's eyes when they kind of go and achieve their goals and do better than they thought they could and i think i've just everybody's always got a lot of time in life for those kind of people uh we're going to move on to our quick fire questions in a moment before we go there i want you to take me to la 2028 yes Olympic 200-meter final, you're 32.

1:03:48Maybe Amy Hunt's next to you or a couple of places down. You've got 20-odd seconds to chase the one medal you have wanted your entire career. What does the 32-year Dina Asher Smith need to understand in that moment that the little girl who drew herself wearing those medals and even the Dina who went to her first Olympics didn't yet understand? I don't want to get emotional, but what a privilege. What a privilege it is to be on this line for your fourth Olympic Games like just having an incredible time but she's gonna know exactly what to do like she's made so many mistakes before that there'll be a different road back this time but um what a privilege I think I don't I don't think you necessarily always have that as the first thought because you're thinking about whatever your coach is telling you you need to do in that moment to be successful but I think the overriding thought is just what a privilege and absolutely just do your absolute best in this moment like just yeah what a gift yeah I'm excited to watch it it makes you emotional thinking about it no but well when you ask me to compare it to the eight-year-old that's not something that I would tend to do in like a sentence or a thought because you're so hyper focused in the moment again you're going to be thinking about I mean I don't know what the coaching cues will be in two years time but whatever you've been told directly to go out there and do and that's what's going to be in your mind but where when you put it in that long trajectory what a privilege it is to be in the minutiae of yeah how do i get this olympic gold that will be your last olympics right yeah melbourne's melbourne's far like both geographically and time time so therefore like i'm almost positive it will be but all my mates that's like the older than me they seem to be coming out of retirement they seem to be just popping out retirement or even if they haven't said it out loud and they're retired they're sending me messages like oh i'm training i'm just feeling how it goes like it's a really interesting time to be a female sprinter really interesting time they're just loads of loads of them are just completely tearing up the rule book of what it means to be a female athlete so i think that'll be my last one but if you spoke to some of them five ten years ago they'll be like never again and then i'm getting little messages of them stretching like yeah i just went for a knee surgery just trying to figure out all of it and then we're just going to see if i can get back on track not exposing names well but that shows you how much this sport never leaves people it doesn't and what a privilege it is to do it and that's really why i think it's likely although not certain to be your last and that's why i think it's likely though of all of your events that is the moment to think about the eight-year-old girl yeah i mean it depends i don't want to get emotional in the moment though sometimes you just gotta get it done maybe afterwards yeah maybe not okay maybe just not yeah don't think about the eight year old girl maybe we're just going to stay in the moment and execute you know far more than me about psychology yeah I'm like maybe maybe we're just going to stay in the moment the eight year old girl we can think about that afterwards correct the journey we can get into the emotional details of that afterwards we just need to be stone cold in that moment okay why don't we get together back in the studio in late 2028 yeah and we can talk about the eight year old girl but on that day in LA we'll leave her be where she belongs yeah and you'll be figuring out if hopefully in 2028 I would have figured out how to execute that mix really and not just be terrified for the whole back straight.

1:07:07I love the, have you seen that quote though? The only two people in life that you have to make happy is the eight-year-old you with big dreams for your future. Yeah. And the 88-year-old you who would love to be where you are now. I've heard that quote, it's incredible. Incredible, but that's how I live life, honestly. That's why I'm just like, my eight-year-old self is happy. And I kind of also, when it comes to my grandma, I kind of figure out how my 88-year-old self, and she's, I mean, I've been through that psychological thing, remember. So I know she would be happy and I'm very comfortable in that.

1:07:32You're unbreakable. Yeah, hopefully. Are you ready for some quick fire questions? I am. I'm brought to you by Vitality. Okay, cute. I'm sure you know well. Yeah. The life and health insurer who have proven to help people live up to five years longer by nudging us towards healthier lifestyle choices. So let's do it. What are the three, and you have done these, but it was a few years ago, the three most important non-negotiable behaviours, do you think? Honesty. Dignity. and effort. What's one habit that's changed everything for you? Getting up as soon as I wake up and not going on my phone. No, oh my God, yeah.

1:08:08Greatest advice you've ever been given? Just try your best, try your hardest and your best is often good enough. One goal that you haven't yet said out loud? I can't say out loud. If I haven't yet said out loud, no, come on. Now's not the time or the place. I keep most of my goals private, to be honest. But they're good to have. Excellent. They're what keeps you going and that's what keeps you motivated. And when they're exciting goals, it definitely is what bounces you up and gets ready to chase everything. Yeah. What's your biggest strength? Yeah, my mental resilience. That's definitely something.

1:08:41Nice. Your greatest weakness? Sometimes I care a lot about people, which is never a weakness in life. Never a weakness. Really happy for my emotions. Really happy for my empathy. But there's always a time and a place. What advice would you give to a young Dina just starting out? oh do better than me babe do better always want to be better like I always say to young children when they're like oh my god I want to be like you I want to be like you like I love that thank you but you want to be better than me like I'm not perfect I made loads of mistakes like look at the success but also understand the failures like lots of from a British perspective often when I was coming up I was doing a lot of this stuff for the first time like I was kind of I don't want to say it but I was kind of breaching new ground for our nation a lot so like lots of mistakes so look at the positives but also look at the times i've messed up and learn from both of them and then just do better and finally your one golden rule for living a high performance life have fun yeah enjoy it it's good it's a blessing well done uh you can find out more about living longer with vitality at vitality.co.uk a life and health insurer that aims to help you change your behavior which then can change your life and they are pioneers in prevention as well as top health and life insurance cover providers.

1:09:55Dina, I love that conversation. That was a fabulous interview. Thank you. What an amazing conversation with an incredible person. I think what's really interesting there is that there's a few times, isn't there, that you can see Dina starting to get emotional and she kind of checks herself and stops herself from going there. And it's a reminder that she still, despite all the freedom she has, needs to live a life of control because her whole life revolves around performing at the moment that she needs to perform, despite all the little things that go on. And how many times did she mention in the interview, there are things that have happened that I still haven't spoken about where, I mean, as she said at the end, that I'm so mentally resilient.

1:10:31I hope you really enjoyed that conversation. Maybe you have a young athlete in your household. Maybe you have someone who's struggling at the moment with grief or some of the other topics that we discussed. I'd love you to share this with them. Please remember to subscribe and follow the show. You can rate and review High Performance wherever you listen to it or watch it. But I really appreciate you coming back for more. And I will see you next time for more. For now, though, stay humble, curious, and empathetic. See you next time.

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