E191 - Kieran Trippier: How struggle made me stronger

0:00Hi there, I'm Jay Comfrey and this is High Performance, the award winning podcast that reminds you that it's within. As always, hello and thank you to all of our listeners right across the world who tune in to us every week so that we can be your armour, be your partner, be your guide in a world that so often feels negative, divisive and confused. Look, we want these conversations to remind you of your power, of your potential and what you're capable of. So right now, allow myself and Professor Damien Hughes to unlock the mind of a Premier League footballer who's had the most incredible season.

0:35today this awaits you there was one moment in my career where i didn't really want to play anymore and i'll never forget it i was living in in barnsley on my own in an apartment and mum drove up and yeah she just sat me down and just made me realize what they've sacrificed that was a tough for three or four months that i didn't really speak to my wife about it even she realized the the negativity in the stadium that i was getting which was tough it was tough to take So let's talk about going from Sean Dyche's own manager To Maurizio Pochettino as your manager Shock Went on holiday to Cancun Come back thinking I was in good nick Next minute I'm in the fat club And that's when I knew This is different With Simeone I don't think he could ever manage in England Just purely because He was so passionate And the emotion from him was so high You know You're just like ready to go to war for him I have no regrets Even though I could have been playing the championship and I have no relegation clause I took less money I took a gamble having that team who are all on the same page who want to pull in the right direction who might not be as talented as your opposition I'll take that all day over talent players like myself want to play Champions League football again I've had the taste of it for a good number of years and if we brought that back here I dare to think what it would be like this city, this club and the Champions League so today we welcome kieran trippier to the high performance podcast kieran has had an incredible career he will talk over the next hour or so about what it was really like when roberto mancini told him that he didn't have a future at manchester city and as a teenager he was sent home on a plane alone to deal with that news um he will talk about the day that he almost quit football and it was his mom who turned up at his house and said kieran you need to carry on look at the sacrifices that the people around you have made for you to have a career in the game.

2:32He will then discuss what happened when he went to Burnley under Eddie Howe and then Sean Dyche's stories about Sean Dyche as his manager are incredible, as are his lessons about his career at Tottenham. That's also really moving. Kieran openly reveals just how hard it was for him at Tottenham and just how difficult it is so often for footballers who are in the public eye. I've never heard Kieran open up anywhere about the kind of struggles that he had, how he dealt with them and what he learned from them. And by the way, what he has to say about Newcastle United and you amazing Newcastle fans is also pretty cool.

3:07So let's do it. Here we go. Kieran Trippier on the High Performance Podcast.

3:19Welcome to the podcast. Thank you very much. Thank you for having me. so uh what do you believe high performance to be kieran yeah i think it's you know challenges throughout your your life on and off the pitch i've certainly had them in my career yeah this is about giving everything never never never giving up um going back to when i was at city for example and you know never making it there and it's about how you react and how you bounce back from from setbacks and i've took the long route but i'm i'm happy i wouldn't change anything. Well should we start there then? Yeah. So you're at Manchester City you've got dreams of making the first team like everybody else when and how did you realize that that wasn't going to be your path?

4:02Yeah I was lucky enough to have a great youth set up and train with the first team and I didn't realize how tough it would be playing at the top where you'd see the top players you know Bellamy and the careers that he's had and the players there but yeah I think it was difficult because he had Zabaleta and Micah Ridgetts at the time. So I knew it was always going to be difficult. And I think it's when I went Barnsley at first on loan. And as soon as I got the taste of playing week in, week out in the championship and that's what I sort of wanted, you know. And then the new manager came in, Mancini at the time from Mark Hughes.

4:35And yeah, from then on, he started buying every player. And yeah, I knew then it was going to be very difficult for me. So how was it dealt with? Like, when is the moment that you realise you're going? I think it's more pre-season. I think I went on tour in America with Man City at the time and we went to two different states and then next minute the manager basically, Man City at the time, said, oh, we don't need, there was me and there was two other players. So then we had to fly back. And I just felt then as a young boy, you know, traveling with the first team, I was sad, I was devastated because then I had to fly back with the other two lads at the time.

5:13He was my age and I sort of knew then, like really I'm never going to make it. How old were you? I was only about I think 17, 18 at the time. But we've recently seen in the media like Trent Alexander-Arnold is doing a lot of work in this space for kids that have been let go from the academy scheme and often feel the life's at an end and the statistics of making it as a footballer. I think Michael Calvin speaks about it's 0.01, 9%. So how did you put yourself in that category of being able to be in that tiny percentage of people that do process that and still manage to forge a career? Just having that belief really and having my older brother there who played in the football league.

5:57And again, he's had difficult moments when he played. And I always believed in myself from when I worked in the academy with Jim Cassell, Steve Ayres and people like that. I had good guidance. and yeah it's just all about getting on the bike again and and going again really so you then go to Barnsley yeah right give us an idea of what the next challenge in your life is which is forget about the trappings of the beautiful lifestyle at Manchester City you're now going to go play at Barnsley like what did that teach you that you just couldn't learn when you were at City I think it was a tricky period that because um I was young I moved away from home you know playing with Darren Moore made my debut next to him Middlesbrough away so yeah there was a lot of challenges really like I said professionalism at the time when I was so young that wasn't great if I'm going to be honest with you in what way what do you mean by that I was young lads I was living in a hotel with two other lads maybe going out too much when I was young going from you know a yts on 95 pound a week to a little bit more say like 300 thinking you're the big man you know i mean but yeah like i said you know you learn off that can you remember one bit of advice from that period where you maybe sat down with someone and they laid it on the line and it had an impact on you i think there was one time where my mom came um because again i was young I was on more money and, you know, I was doing silly things like going out drinking and stuff like that.

7:31And there was one moment in my career where I didn't really want to play anymore. And I'll never forget it. I was living in Barnsley on my own in an apartment and mum drove up. And yeah, she just sat me down and just made me realize what they've sacrificed, you know. and you know every day Monday to Saturday me and my brother because we we didn't really grow up as a a wealthy family you know my mom and dad have worked so hard to get us in the position we're in today so I think that was the one moment in my career where I really realized you know how much it meant to my mom and that was definitely a turning point for me.

8:06Why didn't you want to play anymore? I don't know it was just more like being alone at 18 in Barnsley I know it's not far away from Bury but yeah when you're so young and at the time I didn't really have that as you do now teams have people who support you and stuff like that and help you manage certain situations so I think that moment when my mum came really really helped me it's interesting though isn't it because all we see in the world of football is the big games under the bright lights and the nice cars and the nights out and the great salaries but you know you're 18 years old at this point and you've already kind of had to hold your own in the Manchester City Academy, failed there, been sent back on a flight on your own from the States.

8:47I mean, that's a lot for a 17-year-old to process. Then join a football club at a completely different level and then be on your own and then not treat yourself properly and then want to maybe quit the game and your mum's had to come and remind you of actually how far you've come. This is all before the age of 18. And this is, I think, the side of football that is never really spoken about, is it? No, definitely not. And again, I go back to when I was in the youth team and I seen so much quality in my youth setup. And I think there's only about four of us who have made a career out of that team.

9:17And it's scary really. And I think looking back, I don't think the support system was really there in place for players. And did you ever have a plan B for what you would do if football didn't take your eyes? Not really, because I weren't really the cleverest in the school, if I'm going to be honest with you. I always believed that I could make it. but again it's about having that dedication and that professionalism to try and get in the position that I'm in today So just remind me, Eddie Howe bought you up at Burnley and then Sean Dyche came in Why do you smile when I mention that name? He's just a great guy He loves you And I guess the feeling's mutual However, he did describe you on our podcast as a butterball when he first arrived at the club So I think even though you feel you were more professional at this point I wasn't I still I was better than what I was okay so Sean Dyche comes in very high standards fitness is vital for him how did he go about turning you into the player that he wanted you to be lifestyle I think what I was eating what I was drinking stuff like that there was a story I don't know if he told you about when I was in a local restaurant and he just came in as manager and then I sent him off through the doors and I was I was like, oh, no way.

10:33I mean, he came over and looked like I was drinking a Coke. And then he came over and smelt my drink and then just smiled and then walked off and said, I'll see you tomorrow. So, yeah, I was lucky really in that moment. Eyes everywhere all the time. There is. There is. So we've heard from him about how he creates culture at a football club. When we talk about Sean Dyche, the manager, what is the one story from that period where he first arrived at Burnley that made you realise, oh, wow, okay, this is going to be interesting? It was his first meeting because he had a projector with all his rules.

11:04And then obviously it was like, you have to train with shin pads on. So straight away we knew, right, we're in for it here. And just all his principles and his rules. And he's a big believer in leave your egos at the gate and stuff like this. And the togetherness, the way he wants his teams to set up. You have to run or you don't play for him. And that's when we realized really like, it's going to be tough this. But he was brilliant for everybody the way he, if nobody was playing, they weren't, you know, down tooling or anything like that. He proper sorted everyone out and that's what we needed in that time.

11:38And your relationship with him was quite special. When did you first realise that the two of you had like a nice affinity? What did he say to us? I don't offer special rules to anyone apart from drips. That was his son. Yeah. Mate, he seems you was a son. The gaffer were brilliant. I think me personally, helped me out massively with he believed in me a lot as all my other coaches did but he really is he's really the one where he believed in me where I could take my my game to the next level and he really um sorted me out on and off the pitch he really took care of me he was tough with me but in a good way and you know looking back that was that played a big part of my career how did he do it though when you say he gave you that belief like how Wow.

12:25He's like a magician. No, he's just like the arm rounder, you know, just, he would recognise certain moments when you weren't yourself. That was another good thing about him. The right times when to give you the relicking when you needed it or put an arm rounder. And again, that's why I said he's a really good man manager. What was the difference between, like for lay people like us that have never played, what would you say is the big difference between going from the championship to being in the Premier League? I think in the championship, I think if you give certain possession away in certain areas, you can maybe get away with it.

12:58You know, in the Premier League, when we played Chelsea the first game, we went 1-0 up and then Chelsea just, you know, Fabregas, you know, the players like, you know, Costa then just switched it on and then next meet you free one down and it's so clinical and the pace is so much faster than the championship. So yeah, it's totally different. It's totally different than the champ. And I think that year we got promoted as well. I think we sound like three players on a three and I think we got written off to get relegated as well. So Sean Dyche deserves huge credit for what he did for that football club.

13:26Lovely. So do you. Oh, thank you. But nothing lasts forever. No. And eventually Spurs come calling. Yeah. Yeah. And that was, I think at the time when we got promoted, I only had a year left on my contract at Burnley and I could have left on a free, but yeah, Sean Dyche ended up asking me to sign a new contract, which I did. And then, yeah, we got relegated and then Tottenham come calling and I didn't have to think twice, to be honest with you, because I had the opportunity to play European football. Is it one of those things where you couldn't remember the very moment that you first heard of their interest, where you were, what you were doing?

14:01Yeah, it was like, I can't remember if we played, I think it was West Ham at Ulm. It was around about that time, I think like three games to the end of the season, I heard the interest. How did you hear it? Well, I was speaking to Warks, funnily enough, as well, when we played Tottenham at Ulm, and he said a few things to me. and yeah and then that's when I sort of I was hearing the interest and then end of the season came and then yeah I ended up at Tottenham it's interesting Rio Ferdinand says this is like Sir Alex Ferguson used this trick all the time if he knew that a footballer was mates with someone else that he wanted to buy he'd be like just go and have a word just tell them how great this place is and how much that's true yeah exactly that's true can you remember what he said what was the no he was just basically saying the manager's but asked about you a couple of times and stuff like this it wasn't anything like yeah do you want to come to Tottenham or anything?

14:48It was just more... Don't worry, there's no tapping up story coming out of this. No, no, no. Being honest with you, it was just more like the manager asked about you and it was good to hear. But what questions do you ask going back the other way? So I get it's flattering that the manager's asking about you, but what questions are you asking? Is this the right environment for me? To me, I didn't really think it was going to happen at the time because I was at Burnley. Tottenham was a big club. and I didn't think it would happen if I'm going to be honest with you. But yeah, at the time I didn't really ask him any questions about the club or anything like that because I didn't think it was possible that I'd go to Tottenham.

15:24And yeah, as I said before, when the season ended, it happened so quick. How quick? Probably in about two weeks, three weeks. That's when stuff was getting agreed and I was on holiday and stuff like that at the time. And are you the sort of person that wants assurances about playing? No, for me back then it was just more, Tottenham are interested. They have the opportunity to play European football. So for me, it wasn't about being first choice because I knew I wasn't going to be if I signed for Tottenham because obviously Walks was there But that's going to be the first time since Barnsley that you're going to have to move away from Manchester, you're going to have to be living away from home Was that a concern for you?

15:58Not then really because my wife who was my girlfriend at the time, she moved down with me so that was a massive massive thing for me at the time to when I got out of my area because my wife's been a massive part of my life and my career so yeah that was a big part how long have you guys been together uh since she's about 18 what is it that she offers you that does allow you to go and perform again somebody to speak to if i'm feeling down uh which there has been throughout my career just to support really you know i have someone there who's fully behind me with whatever decision i make she's there to support me 100 so and she's been a key part of my of my life really so let's talk about going from sean dyche's own manager to mauricio pochettino as your manager yeah first impressions shock big shock if i'm honest with you um went on holiday to cancun come back thinking i was in good nick next minute i'm in the fat club and i was in the altitude chamber yeah uh there was a couple of us and i i thought i was you know my weight was good and then no no i was straight in the chamber after every session and that's when i knew this is different and who delivered that news to you it was uh azuz is a assistant manager yeah yeah so that was probably the first week with just looking at um the longer i got there just looking at all the other players conducting themselves really you know we had obviously lorise harry kane at the time and Jan Vertonghen, Tolby.

17:30So it was a shock really. Right. So this is interesting. What is it that those players are doing that you maybe hadn't seen in your career? And that's not to say that the guys you were playing with before weren't professionals, but this is the elite level now. Yeah. I think what time they're in. You know, when I arrived, they were already finished the gym, for example, especially certainly Harry, what they was eating off the field. As I was there longer, I got really close to a few of them and what they was doing off the field. and yeah, that was a shock for me personally because of where I came from, the culture that I came from and to the new culture at Tottenham.

18:03And obviously you've come from Burnley, right? So, you know, you hadn't signed from Man United or Real Madrid. You weren't coming in as a guaranteed starter necessarily. Can you give us an insight into how you carried yourself, conducted yourself, how you trained in that first training session, how you chose to speak to those other players on the first day? Yeah, well, I was close with Walsh. I knew him from the youth set up with England so he really took care of me there. I think it was just like, just enjoy yourself, just embrace it, try and do as well as you can. Going back, I know I weren't going to be first choice, but it was just like conducting myself in the right way and just learning really, because I was still about 25 at the time, I think I was.

18:44But yeah, just learning off the other players with how they prepare for training and everything on and off the field really. Was there one thing you saw from another player where you thought, I'd never even thought about that, that I'm adopting that now. That's how I'm going to operate day to day. I can only speak on Harry Kane's behalf, really, because he's probably one of the most professional players I play with, if I'm honest. And just the way he is from when he arrives through the building to going in the gym, doing extras, again, eating the right things and the recovering. And yeah, I used to watch him a lot when I was there because obviously it was Harry Kane, weren't it?

19:20so would Harry deliver news to you if he didn't think you were pulling your weight or playing well enough yeah and how would he do that he'd pull you to one side maybe not in like an aggressive way he was just trying to help you know because he he wanted the best he wanted everyone to train the best possible way really yeah so he would do it in a good way H H is a good guy it's interesting though isn't it because we've only spoken to one guest on High Performance who said to us there's a difference between High Performance an elite performance and it feels like you've gone from a high performing environment to an elite environment is that fair to say?

19:56Yeah definitely because obviously playing at Tottenham was the elite you know you was playing I was in the Europa League at the time and then obviously the Champions League so you play with fully internationals I weren't playing with internationals at Burnley you know when internationals used to go off I think there was only five of us at Tottenham's training ground training with the young lads so that says everything about the different mindset and the challenges that I had to overcome really When we interviewed Maurizio He spoke about the message that John McDermott had given him about in any culture, you've got that FIFO effect.

20:26You either fit in or you fuck off. And he said that was very much his mindset of what he had. So I'm interested that you've come from Burnley. How much of it is being explicit that you're being inducted into it of caring this is you need to be in at this time. You need to be eating this food. and how much of it is just you expected to either wise up yourself or we'll just find a way, we'll get someone to replace you. Yeah, of course. It has to come from in yourself to be in on time. You can't be late because Pochettino was mad on that if you was late and he would know as well. So if you tried to walk in and thinking and you was late and you said you was on time, you have people ticking you off every time you come in, what time you arrived in.

21:09And why was that significant? I just think, you know, there's no reason to be late. he was strict but in a good way can we talk about energia universal as he describes it universal energy this belief he has that everyone carries an energy about them and he can feel the energy either by having his hand on you or holding onto your hand or your shoulder or something like that do you remember that first time you sort of realized how him and his just operate yeah there was obviously those times when you know you shake his hand and stuff like that and um there was one moment where I just got carried away and somebody said something I think and then he squeezed my hand and no look me in the eyes um that's when I really shit myself really I thought I did I knew then that moment as well this is this is real he told us that he used to sit there and watch the players walk in in the mornings and he would sort of gauge just by looking at you he would say to us I could tell whether they've slept well had an argument with their partner and if I felt they weren't right I would tell them you're not training today yeah it's funny you say that because you know it's like he knew everything about it it's like he i don't know that he had cameras everywhere he just knew if he was he didn't sleep well or he'll just know if you're in a bad mood and and again he was a good man manager he knew when to pull you in when not to when to speak to you when not to speak to you so but yeah it was it was like a magician at times can we talk about the biggest game of your career so far the champions league final do you have fond memories of the fact that this guy that got released by Man City ended up at Barnsley almost quitting the game got to a Champions League final or do you not like revisiting it because you didn't win?

22:49Of course I'm disappointed that we didn't win it but I'm just really proud of the way my journey's gone if I'm honest with you from what you just mentioned then to a Champions League final I never thought for one second I'll be playing in a Champions League final so to reach it the way that we did reach it it was always a special moment but you know I think the first first five minutes killed the game really in that final when you think back to that run to the final what is the moment that that springs to mind for you I think there's so many I think being honest with you I think the City game when I think it was Razu scored in the last second and then he was he was offside then Llorente Llorente scored but then obviously the Ajax when we was 3-0 down with 45 40 minutes ago and Lucas scores as that trick so what's been said at half time in that game kieran i think it was yeah the fireworks going off to be honest with you um h said a few words uh the manager did and again i don't even know to be honest with you just it was just crazy that last 35 minutes or something yeah it's just having that belief you know got nothing to lose now we're free no down yeah we forget one try and get another and then get another it's easy saying that but could you remember the messages in in there at halftime?

24:07What were they saying? Because it's all very ranting and raving play better, but that's not helpful in those moments, is it? No, I can remember you know, I don't think Harry will mind me saying this, but I've not seen Harry go mad really in his career, but he really wasn't happy because I think because he weren't playing as well because he was injured at the time and yeah, he weren't happy, but he didn't say anything in a negative way. It was all positive but just seeing him, me personally, just seeing him and you know how he would dealt with it and the way he spoke to certain players in a good way of course i think that helped me a little bit yeah he's a really positive minded player h i think the really interesting thing there's two interesting things there the first one is that he's injured right yeah so it'd be very easy for him in that moment not to be a leader and go well i'm injured so i'm just going to step back and not get involved in this because this is going to be a disaster we're going to lose this five and then it won't involve me you know self-preservation yeah that's the first thing he chose not to do that the second thing is like you said it's i've very rarely seen him act like this choosing your moments to deliver hard truths to people is one of the key tenets to true high performance and true leadership and it feels like of course he won't mind you saying this because this is a guy that got it right in the moment when it really mattered you know and he's a leader and he's so an important player for club and country and i've been lucky enough to to represent that with him harry is you know sometimes quiet and stuff you know but when he does speak you just you sit there and you listen what did Maurizio say do you remember in the dressing room afterwards what what he said that was pertinent and sticks in the memory not really to be honest with you because in that moment probably I knew my time was up then anyway really why no I knew probably two months before that my time was probably coming to an end at Tottenham anyway so so for me it was just more about there were certain moments during the second half one I weren't performing well anyway I knew that I was struggling with my grind when I needed surgery which I had done when I was in Madrid but I don't think he really said much to me as the manager after the game it was just yeah we were down everyone was quiet of course and we just got out of the stadium as quickly as possible and how did you know that your time at Spurs was coming to an end?

26:20obviously football it's a small world isn't it you you hear things from from people and you know people who i know and who i trust and yeah this is football you know what the you got the message that you're not in norizio's plans is that no it wasn't necessarily weren't in his plans but it was just more um maybe my time was coming to an end where they might wanted to sell me or but listen you know players come and go managers come and go this is football you know i didn't i didn't dwell about it when i heard about certain things maybe some of them was weren't really true maybe they were see but that really interests me because i i think that in life in general in any culture that like the way that you've inducted or the way you enter a culture is important but also the way you exit it is important for other people that see it you know like have the have you been handled fairly have you been treated with respect and dignity and all those other factors and you you were describing really powerfully the management of someone like marit show and how you had that relationship and they could tell you the truth and yet i'm surprised that the ambiguity around this exit of hearing rumors rather than somebody coming and having that kind of honest conversation with you yeah but i think from obviously the the media was speculating a lot of the time and stuff like that but and when i weren't performing well and i've said that plenty of times my last few months at tottenham I wasn't and obviously hearing things it didn't help of course it didn't but I tried to block it out but again it wasn't the right time to speak to anybody you know the manager or the club because I was going through such a big moment in the club's history you know we had City at the time and then Ajax and then obviously the final so it was just more about okay no problem I'll just come back in pre-season and then just have a chat with the manager and see see what things are going on I think actually that's quite a healthy mindset to have in this game because like one of the skills I think to operating in the football world is to realize actually how little control you've got yeah definitely 100 you don't really have much control really if I'm honest with you you get well paid the life is great you play a lot of football but the truth is it's not about that though you know of course it is and I can see when someone says that you see every time the heckles on a footballer's net come up it's frustrating isn't it that that is the stick that every footballer gets beaten with it's almost like we can treat people how they want the media can write what they want the fans can go on social media and say whatever they want because they get well paid i mean that's from the conversations we've had that's almost the biggest permanent frustration of everything no i get it you know from people on the outside that you know players get paid well and they get they have these houses cars or whatever it may be but behind it when you know they're not going for a good moment in football um like for me the last few months at tottenham was was so so hard for me you know i was getting no stick from the tottenham fans and and stuff like you know this is football they pay their well-earned money to come and watch and they expect better but it's tough what players have to go through behind the scenes is really hard you know social media plays a part when a player doesn't perform and then next minute it's all over social media and you're getting memes about year and stuff like that and mentally it's hard it's really tough because social media is so powerful these days and you know a lot of my friends have had it over the past two three years and it's you know as a as a friend it's not nice to see so and i get that in terms of the noise from people that pay the money and think they can say what they want but what would you advise a manager that might be listening to this whether it's in sport or not about how they can sort of turn down the noise and help you.

30:01So what, like, what would you have needed in those last few months at Spurs that maybe, like, you're having a tough time. Yeah. You don't need somebody creating more uncertainty or ambiguity for you. What would you have needed? Well, it's difficult because at the time I was still getting picked, even though I weren't really performing. Well, there were certain moments when I was giving the ball away and I can always remember one at Wembley when I gave the ball away, Marcus scored. So things weren't going my way. What were you thinking in that moment? it was tough it was every little mistake I scored an own goal against Chelsea it was a great finish to be honest but but no again it's hard it does feel doesn't it like how many more things can go wrong here week after week honestly there were certain moments where yeah I was giving the ball away and there was scoring and nothing was going for me and that was tough I'm not one of them players to say to a manager take me out of the team because I think that's backing out really, you know, giving up.

31:01Would it have helped in hindsight? Maybe, but I think that's where the manager maybe, you know, if he took me out, I wouldn't have had any complaints. But yeah, that's the manager decide. But obviously he's still picking me, so I start to go out there and give my best. If you're happy to be vulnerable, I know in sport often people don't want to be vulnerable because they think that it's like seen as a weakness. I think we're hopefully getting to the point in 2023 where people realise it's a strength of a leader to be vulnerable. So there were people that are watching this thinking, oh, it's a meme on Twitter.

31:34It's a comment on Twitter. It's something I'm just yelling about you or your family from the stands. Don't take it to heart. Be braver. Maybe not for you because you've been through it and hopefully you've come out the other side, but for other young lads that are starting out in the game or even for the people that are putting these things on social media. Yeah. What does it really do? No, mentally, especially for young players these days, it's so powerful because if they make a mistake in a certain game, say a big game, and then they're getting called all loads of names on the social media, because young players check social media these days, that's normal.

32:14But then when they see the negative part of it, mentally that's so bad and it can affect a young player so much because maybe they don't feel comfortable coming out speaking to anybody like i didn't many years ago when i was at barnsley so it's just having that balance and again having the right people around you because social media is powerful these days it's a good and bad what was the real world impact on you in that time at tottenham are we talking about not sleeping you know tears everything no it's everything really it's just um when i know i weren't performing well you know and when i said before that i speak to my wife about everything i didn't speak to her because that was a tough for three or four months that i didn't really speak to my wife about it why not i don't know i felt embarrassed really a little bit because i weren't performing you know what i mean and even she realized the the negativity in the stadium that i was getting which was tough it was tough to take the last question on this what would you say to people that send those tweets and think this only a tweet is harmless it's just a message like deal with it no i just think obviously think about the impact it could have on that individual really and you know you'd sometimes we we don't realize what certain people are going through behind the scenes away from football you know um people could be going through a lot of stuff at home with their families or whatever and then they're having this extra negativity at them and it can it can mentally you know hurt them a lot so i'll just just say like just try and you know be careful what you say Did you seek any help any therapy any psychologist No not really no yeah just speaking to my wife all the time or family members This challenging period did that play into the design not just to move but to move abroad Not really I don't think Daniel probably wanted to sell to anyone else in England if I'm honest Again no control No control yeah So when do you get the news that you're not just leaving Tottenham you're leaving and you're going abroad make sure your passport's up to date off you go Yeah, it was a strange one really because Ancelotti was manager at Napoli and my deal was done there.

34:22I had a good conversation with him on the phone. My wife went out with my mum and her mum to have a look at the city and look at schools. And to be fair, my wife didn't really like it. And then, yeah, Let's Go Madrid came in out of nowhere. So you turned Napoli down because your wife had... Yeah, and obviously then there was talk of Ancelotti leaving Napoli and that was one of the big reasons why I wanted to go there as well to play for him. and yeah that didn't happen and then yeah out of nowhere i got a call from the agent saying let's go my dribble on a signer so let's get it done let's go see when i look back at that period when we're doing the research for this like the thing i'm intrigued about this period of your life is the idea of cognitive overload and what i mean is that you've got so many things competing for your attention you've got you go into a new league where you don't speak the language you've got a demanding coach you've got other issues going on at that time um in your in your career you've got a wife who needs to move house children need to find a school yeah find a house to live in that's tough as well yeah like i was breathless when i was reading it thinking fucking hell like how did you cope with that to not only go in and get a place in the team but to end up winning la liga as well it's tough and you know maybe fans when you have to move countries and that's why just going back a little bit that's why I have so much respect for the foreign players that come to England because I'd play one of them thinking how's he not settled in and stuff like this but I realise how tough it is when I went to Spain my wife was finding it really hard the first six months and there's so many factors in that and that's why I have so much respect for all the players who come here and live so many years in the English Premier League and hats off to them because it's hard you know what it's one of the big challenges for me is that the more i have these sorts of conversations the more i struggle with my other job of being a football presenter because you know i'm the guy that has to stand there with ex-players going he's played nine games in the premier league and hasn't scored having arrived from argentina or something like no definitely and listen i was only two out two hours away from uh from england when i lived in spain but these boys you know from paraguay argentina brazil it's it's a long way and some of them they're here alone and mentally for them obviously if they're not performing in the Premier League if they've come for a big fee and then the media get tough with them and then social media as well and that can have a big big impact there's so many players over the years in the Premier League who have probably not performed to the levels that they should have but what happens behind the scenes is it's really hard and I can only go off my experience in Spain where again I didn't know the language when I first went there and I was always thinking about is my wife okay is my children okay so that was tough so tell us how do you actually deal with that how do you compartmentalize you know i've got to leave my wife and kids now and i've got to go in and i've got diego simeone and his assistants putting you through what is regarded as commonly some of the most brutal physical sessions you're trying to integrate with lads where you don't speak the language how on earth do you cope with that that people listening to this could maybe facing their own challenges learn from yeah so when i when i first went there we went to the the states for pre-season then went to mexico so i was away for quite a long time and to be fair my wife handled it really well even though it was tough for her in certain moments in certain situations she she tried to make an effort with um other players wives who maybe spoke a little bit of english like morata's wife spoke a bit of english and stuff like that he was a big help for us and my family for me i weren't really bothered because i like testing myself i like testing you know my mental state and stuff like and yeah i was heard about it i was like let's go full throttle like pack our bags let's go we'll spend

38:15let's talk about diego simeone so we've gone from mark mancini to mark robbins yeah mark robbins to eddie howe to sean dyge to maurizio pochettino and then Diego Simeone yeah he's different he's different certainly in what way? everything I think the way you see him on the touchline is that's just how he is in training I know it's I'm not making that up that's just how he is before every game you'll see him for like 40 minutes just storming up and down the corridor just looking down at the floor for literally about 40 minutes I don't know what he's thinking about but as a manager it's unbelievable incredible Explain how and why So basically if you don't run You're not going to play for him regardless of how much You cost, how good you are If you don't run for him you don't play, simple as that The respect that he has from Not just the players that play That don't play as well It's like I've never seen anything like it before The idolising there It's incredible to see How does that manifest itself?

39:17Just the way he manages all the players The way he's just so clever The way he picks and chooses wins the pool players out to put players in and when they're not playing puts an arm around them the freedom it gives you when you when you play for the club yeah it was mad do you remember what he said to you like what was your induction from him the first meeting with him what got said he don't really speak English to be honest with you so did he have a translator then or did he yeah we had Burgos he's called he's right on man he was brilliant he's got a face and reputation is that right Burgos and Nelson them two they're lunatics them two but no it was just just basically he's really happy to have me I can remember meeting him in in the mountains when we had pre-season just saying he's happy to have me here had you already signed at this stage yeah so he was not backing out literally done my press conference and then straight to the I thought maybe I can go home get some things he said no no he's straight in the mountains literally from the stadium straight into pre-season and what was that like it was good you know I had there was Morata he was there Costa who spoke a bit of English so I had a couple of people who spoke English who really helped me settle in and basically I had that Burgos for the full six months just stood behind me just running with me basically when the manager's speaking he's basically shouting to me in English where he wants me to be and it was a good learning curve when you see comments like he shouldn't be going or he's not going to play it's not right for him does that derail you a bit or does it do the opposite?

40:48for me it's more everyone's entitled to their own opinion and to play in Spain, to play for Let's Go Madrid, to play for Diego Simeone. And at the time, I didn't think that at the time, but it was just more, just go and enjoy it, you know. And what was the big difference between the two football cultures? Well, when we played our first Madrid derby, we had to go outside and I thought it was like, it was banter or something, you know. Koke said, we have to go outside. So we had to finish our dinner and we had to stand on the balcony and there was about, just less than 10 ,000 Let's Go Madrid fans.

41:20but then there was one main guy on the big tannoy and you had to stand there and just listen to him for a good 10-15 minutes and then they'll just start setting fireworks off singing you have to you have to clap them and then yeah go in what did that do for you they were just like different of course and i just like that basically the guy was just saying to the new signings because it's about four or five of us meet joao at a time hector a couple of players you know what it means to play for a Madrid, you know, you need to die for this year, you need to do this and then obviously someone was translating it to me at the time because I didn't have a clue what he was saying but it was just like, okay, this is different pressure but yeah, one that I'm ready for I read an interview with Simeone again while we're doing the prep and one of the things that he'd said was about moving to England, it was something that he hadn't done because he didn't speak the language like he said and so much of his approach and his success is about emotion and communication and engaging with people yeah definitely so how did he do that with you it's hard to say really it was just more from body language you know it was sort of certain situation training if i didn't do something right which i knew i didn't he would let me know for his body language and i would just scream at me in spanish so i knew i'd done something wrong do you know what i mean so but there's always a translator there where you know when i've once So I had a lot of one-to-one meetings with him because he just said to me the first thing, what's the one thing you want to improve?

42:48I just said my defending. And then literally it was, from then on, it was relentless, even after trading one-to-one. It was good because that's what I wanted to do. I mean, that's really, I mean, there's some famous research on this about how communication happens. It's often attributed to a guy called Albert Morabian that says that only 7 % of our communication is through what we say. you know but over 93 % of it is communicated through both what we see but more importantly how we make people feel the emotions so how would you rate given that that's what Simeone sort of specializes in conveying and transferring emotions how important would you say that is for people listening that maybe as leaders the transference of emotion in terms of getting your message across and getting people to buy in yeah it's so important and like so i'll come back to him we'll come back to the one we said about emotion with simeon i don't think he could ever manage in england just purely because it when he was speaking in the dressing room before any game he was so passionate and the emotion from him was so high you know you're just like ready to go to war for him that's why he'd get frustrated by managing england because he couldn't get his message across to the certain individual or the players because it's that emotional so and the reason i'm asking this question is that when we've sat down with jordan henderson and steven gerrard before that they told us examples where managers over here have used techniques like showing them photographs or letters from their family all right yeah to sort of heighten emotion and what they've said is it's really quite a tricky balancing act because you don't want to over arouse an individual but you do want to stimulate them enough to want to go and give that extra so what would you say that sweet spot that he seems to manage is?

44:36I think there was quite a few situations when we was going for the title to be honest with you and he was just saying every time in the morning when you wanted to say hello or good morning to somebody you weren't allowed to say that you had to say like you know we're champions the sounds crazy but that's what it was yeah we're going to be champions every home game away game there was scarves and there must have been thousands of them going back years all um pictures and videos of us back in our youth team and scoring goals or creating assists or photos and yeah that's when you knew in that moment it was real you know and there was one moment when we played Valo de Lidth away last game of the season to win the league and he texted me at like he did a lot of times where he just texts you at random times so he texts me like 11 o 'clock at night half 11 saying basically come downstairs so I went downstairs and then he showed me an interview that I did when I first signed him a press conference and it was just like what do I want to achieve coming for Let's Go Madrid and I just said you know to work with a manager and I want to win La Liga and he showed it to me turned it off and then he just walked out and do you know what I mean those little moments when you think about it You get goosebumps actually when you hear that.

45:56Yeah, and you can feel that. And I went back to my room thinking, like, he didn't even say anything to me. Just show me the video of what I said because I wanted to win La Liga. And the next day we did. Sean Dyche told us that one of, like, his most treasured memories was when you're out on the field after you've beaten Valadalea and you're celebrating, you phone him up to say thank you. Yeah, yeah. How much of that would you have done anyway? Or how much of it was inspired by that kind of emotional leadership that you've been experiencing? Yeah, because Dyche, again, like, Of course, Eddie Howe back when I was at Burnley, Mark Robbins and all the other coaches have done a lot for me.

46:30But the moment where I was playing regular football and where I needed the help and guidance, he was there. And he helped me so much and was actually speaking to each other the night before. And yeah, I just gave him a quick FaceTime and I just said, you know, thank you for everything that you've done. And yeah, it was just a real good moment for us both really. It's nice. And I think what is nice about that is that maybe Diego also played an important role in that because he's reminding you throughout your time at that football club. 100%. This isn't about being here. This is the journey you've been on.

46:59And that's why it was good. He was showing us videos from when I was at Tottenham, Burnley. So it's in your head then, isn't it? It's like... It was brilliant, honestly. And he always talks about the Luis Suarez moment. From when he first signed, saying he'll win us the title or last kick of the game. And he did. Let's talk briefly then about the thrill of achievement, right? So Johnny Wilkinson came on this podcast and said he tried for 20 years to be the world's best rugby player. He achieved it in 2003. how long do you think the thrill lasted for him i can't tell you 30 seconds wow and then he was ready to go like right what's next yeah you you win la liga you spent your whole career wanting a trophy like that to go with my youth cup one how did it feel yeah and just um an unbelievable feeling i just really when i got home when i went for dinner with my wife they're just reflecting of where i came from how i've done it what people have sacrificed to get me in this position that position that I'm in today and just people doubted me and it's I didn't go let's prove anybody wrong it was just well I have no regrets in every decision that I make and I always believe in myself so is it time to talk about Newcastle do you think yeah right I'm going to read uh three tweets why would Trippier leave Atletico Madrid and go to Newcastle just to play in the championship World Cup year and Kieran leaves Madrid Champions League for Newcastle who will get relegated good luck in the championship when you hear those now knowing that next season is looking at champions league not championship how do you feel when you hear those i just feel i came here to set out what i wanted to do and when people say those it's not to prove anybody wrong it's just yeah you know i believe and i would go back to before when i said that i have no regrets in every decision that I make.

48:44This was the perfect decision for me. And, um, there was loads of comments when I first signed there, as you could imagine, you know, different, you know, he came here for money or whatever it may be, but what people don't actually realize is I came here on less money than when I was at Madrid. So yeah, that's true. So you took a pay cut to come to Newcastle. I come here on less money than what I was on at Madrid. I could have signed a new three contract at Madrid. So the obvious question is, why? Why would you take a pay cut? Because I had to come back to England for my family, my children. I was going through a difficult moment with other stuff that was going on in my personal life as well, which could have sort of affected with the club, etc.

49:29But I've got my reasons why I came back. I had good chats with the manager and I just thought, you know what, why not? I knew there was 19th in the league. I have no regrets even though I could have been playing the championship and I have no relegation clause I took less money I took a gamble but again I have no regrets that's it let's talk about when you first arrived then you came into January and it was like let's be totally frank it was touch and go whether this club was going to get relegated at that point of course then there was this incredible like felt like this shift didn't it and we spoke with Eddie about it on this podcast and he just talked about this incredible belief that like washed over the city can you give us your sort of emotional recollection of that period when this club was saved as a premier league football club yeah certainly weren't my first game against cambridge when we got knocked out so that was uh what were you thinking then yeah that was tough i had good chats to manage about trying to help the players around me in a difficult moment and uh when we got beat by cambridge it was just i'd more be going in the dressing room just saying forget about it you know you know we've got a massive game is Watford who we played after we just need to focus on the league but the moment when it's unfortunate I got injured as well I was devastated because yeah I was trying to help help a club stay in the league not just me but the team but the moment I realised that we were probably going to be safe was I don't know which game I think maybe the Southampton away maybe but to be honest we went on a crazy run and that belief came from the manager and the players that were signed in January the right characters which is the most important thing in the team you need to have the right right characters in the squad so tell us more about that go on you need to have the the right characters who are on the same page to pull in one direction and the manager's been a big believer in that the way he wants the club to be run the way he wants to set his teams up and you need to have a good dressing room and you know how are people gonna handle themselves when they're not in the squad when they're not playing for example you look at wilson alex now two on fire strikers there's no bitterness there's no complaining the ball just ready and if you have that in your team that'll take you so far so far and what about Eddie let's go right from when you first spoke to him yeah what did he say to you to sell this football club do you know what he didn't have to say anything to him I'm not just saying that he didn't say anything to me to sell it to me it was just more he actually came out to Madrid to watch us train October time I think before he even found out he was going to get this job and I was having a few words and trying to plant the seed if you ever get a job in England again you know I'll come back and yeah he took over Newcastle but yeah the changes from now until when I first had him 12 years ago was incredible incredible change back then we would score four but would concede two three goals and I think it was early years of his management when he was at Burnley and then he went back to Bournemouth I think for me looking at the manager is when he took the time out I think when he had to reflect and go and look at how all the teams work, how they operate, and you look at him now, he's flying as a manager.

52:35And what about his man management? How's that different? Yeah, I think his man management's top. Because I think back then, the dressing room that we had in Burnley then was tough. I think we're proper old school players, you know, and tough for the manager at the time. I think he'll admit that. but looking at him now is he's got players that he trusts he has good leaders in the dressing room who can handle any situation if he doesn't need to go to him we can take that and indoors we can deal with it and it's just about the trust and the connection that we have who are the leaders then in the in the current Newcastle dressing room so we have a leadership group meeting there's me Dan Byrne Callum Wilson obviously Jamala Sells and Matt Ritchie um yeah so we normally have a like and meet and see if everything's okay, if there's any problems.

53:24And it's quite nice, I think, having a group rather than an individual because I think sometimes it's difficult for one person to kind of, that tall poppy syndrome, the other guy is always doing those extra bits. Whereas if there's a group of you, I think it provides a bit of sort of psychological safety, doesn't it? Yeah, definitely. We've all had different experiences, all those players, and that's always an advantage as well. And it's always good for the manager as well, where the manager doesn't need to get involved in anything that happens that he doesn't know about because we can deal with that as the leadership group.

53:55And yeah, I think it's a good balance between the players and the manager. So if we take some of the incidents that you described, like with Pochettino was really hot on timekeeping, you've got to be early, or Sean Dice is hot on leaving your ego at the gates, not being disrespectful. What are the kind of standards then that you insist on for a good dressing room that you say, these are non-negotiable. We need to have these kinds of behaviours firmly understood. I think it's just the demands of everyone. And I think that's what we've got here. We demand a lot in training, not just myself, all the players.

54:30And I think that's grown throughout this season. And positivity as well is key. You know, you need to have a positive group, no negativity or, it can be like a domino effect then. So how do you deal with it when somebody is bringing that kind of negative energy to the group? Yeah, maybe, you know, me and Jam speak a lot. Because obviously he's club captain and we speak a lot. And, you know, maybe he would say, oh, do you want to go and speak to him after training or just have a word of him in a positive way? Because if you go in all guns blazing, it's not going to help anyone. And the whole of football is looking at this club now thinking, how can you be in a relegation scrap last season and in the top four this season?

55:09How much has getting through that relegation period with a lot of the same players that are still involved now. Yeah, it's massive. Yeah, it's massive. And it's gone a lot faster than what I thought. Of course it has. But again, I think the players deserve huge credit and the players that have come in, the way they've adapted to the manager's methods because he demands a lot in training on and off the pitch. So everyone deserves huge credit. Certainly the players that was there before they take over because I think that doesn't get spoken about enough. The players that was there, they've done incredible and obviously that comes from coaching as well but yeah it's crazy I didn't think we would be pushing this high up in the table so soon You've played at all different levels in more than one country where does this isn't a question about talent this is a question about mentality and self-belief and spirit where does the current Newcastle dressing room sit in that respect compared to all the other dressing rooms you've been in Yeah definitely up there certainly because what they've had to overcome before the takeover when there was rock bottom I think on 19th on about seven points and then going on staying up and then kicking on again to be third in the league to overcome the hurdles that we have overcome people from the outside they wouldn't be able to keep up the pace still fall off etc etc and mentally the way they've overcome all those hurdles is brilliant and testament to them as well so if you had to a portion like um numbers on this i'm interested in in your experience because i'm as i'm listening to you i'm thinking about like something that stands out in all your experiences has been great team spirits when success has achieved that idea of its great team spirit seems to be significant if you had to give me a figure for how significant you think it is as a competitive advantage compared to talent what sort of number would you offer?

57:09I think it's bigger than talent having that team who are all on the same page who want to pull in the right direction who might not be as talented as your opposition I'll take that all day over talent 100 % you look at us this season we've competed gone toe-to-toe with Man City at home which is a thrilling game we've gone toe-toe with everyone in the league and I'll take that all day Can we talk about the football club as a whole? Yeah it humbles a player doesn't it the size the scale and the passion up here for football it does and when people have said that to me in the past or when i've played there against newcastle i don't think you realize how big the club is when you play for them the support all around the city when people say it's a football city it certainly is yeah even when i'm taking my kids to school or yeah you know they say to you oh what a good result even the day and that's what you're speaking to them for half an hour you know and that's how passionate that they are and it's good and they remind you of their old times as well when they weren't going for a good moment so they're always proud Do you remember the moment when you signed when you really realised the power of the fans here because I think there's very few football clubs in the UK, you can probably name three or four maybe five where the fans understand their responsibility, where they realise that they're standing on the terrace representing the previous generations and they're going to hand it down to the next generation and they have a genuine part to play when did you realize the power of the fans here and get that real sense of what they do for this club well on my first game is cambridge it was a sellout and like no disrespect to cambridge um you don't see that in the premier league a premier league started selling out the stadiums um on a wednesday night or whenever it was but the fans have been incredible since i've been there you know you see the the big banners they have the war flags and the atmosphere is it's incredible and I can always go back to the one against Arsenal at home last year when it was the best atmosphere I've been involved in for sure.

59:08And you know what? I actually liken the Newcastle fans to your career. You have to bear with me on this. Dealing with setbacks, dealing with people doubting you, dealing with criticism, dealing at times with ridicule, having to be challenged and then finally getting the reward you deserve. It's a long time since these fans have lifted a trophy. for a long time there was an owner of this football club who didn't have their best interests at heart and almost seemed from the outset like he didn't realise the value of the fans here and actually at the same time that you've arrived here they're finally getting the rewards for all the years that they carried on spending their money carried on supporting, carried on cheering carried on having their hearts broken and I don't think we can underestimate actually that they are genuinely adding to the success that this football club is experiencing at the moment.

59:57No, definitely. And they've had to go through tough times, of course they have, but now it's a new journey. Now it's, they can dare to dream, you know. There's a first cup final in so long. Obviously we gutted we didn't win, but that's just the start, you know. That's just the stepping stone of where this club wants to go, where it deserves to be. And the fans are so valuable, you know. Throughout the season, when we've been going through a tough moment, where we've needed them, they've always been there. They've always reacted. to the situation we go one no down or we're on top and we certainly value them so highly and well may that continue of course and um yeah four four four cup finals left listen you'll be fine have you allowed yourself to think about champions league football you must have started to dream yeah it would be i'd be sillier to say i've not i don't want to lie to you um but we shouldn't be scared to say we want to play champions league football um i know the managers or people have been a bit we'll take it a game at a time.

1:00:57I understand that but you know players like myself want to play Champions League football again. I've had the taste of it for a good number of years and if we brought that back here I dare to think what it would be like this city, this club in the Champions League. Do you think that the current squad could deliver on that stage? Yeah I think we could. I think if we're on the same page and we're pulling in the same direction that would take you so far and it's so powerful so So I think it'd be a great occasion for the lads to be playing Champions League football. But yeah, let's see what happens.

1:01:31Attitude over ability, right? Definitely. And the poster out or the banner out there, we're not here to be popular. Yeah, it's massive. We're here to compete. What does that say to you? That just says everything about the clubs, the supporters, you know. Yeah, I just think the Walker Sleeping Giant, if I'm honest with you now. I think you look at Villa, you look at Brighton who are pushing. Of course, other teams might not have done as well this season, but you've got to give credit to, I think, us, Villa, Brighton. It's so competitive, this league. There's no easy game in this league. You've got to respect your opposition.

1:02:08Yeah, you've seen teams now push for the top four, top five now. Time for the quick fire questions. Okay. What are the three non-negotiable behaviours that you and the people around you need to buy into? Don't be late. Always give understanding training. Commitment. What's your biggest weakness and your greatest strength? I think my strength is communication as like a leader, people around me. Weakness, I would say have a bit more belief, I think. As my weakness, believe more. What is the thing that people get wrong or misunderstand most about you, do you think? Honest, honesty, I think. I think I'm a very honest person and honest player.

1:02:50And, you know, I'm committed. What advice would you give to a teenage Kieran just starting out? Always give 100%, listen. And yeah, never, you know, listen to anybody who says you can't make it or you can't do anything. Always have that self-belief. And your final message for the listeners to this who come to these podcasts because they want the kind of lessons and the learnings you've had from your life. What would you like to leave them with? your one golden rule really for living a high performance life I would always say have that belief have that commitment if you're ever going through a bad moment speak up don't be scared and the most important thing just give absolutely everything give 110 % in every situation that you're in and have no regrets lovely listen mate thank you so much for that it's been fascinating I think the most interesting thing for people listening to this is a reminder that from the outside football looks like one thing but as you've just described in very vulnerable brilliant detail you know often it can be something very different so uh let's never underestimate the mental strength of the people that do the job that you do and thanks for talking about it because i think it's it's powerful you know no thank you for having me on it's been really good thank you

1:04:10Damien. Jake. Well I think in many ways that conversation is exactly what we set out to do which is to offer the truth behind someone's football career and I didn't know almost I don't think I knew any of the things actually that Kieran revealed to us in that conversation but I found it riveting. Yeah I think the image that came to my mind was that classic picture of an iceberg where you see the stuff above the surface of the water but it's the size and the depth of the iceberg underneath it that often we miss and don't appreciate and when you think of like you say all the challenges the difficulties the setbacks Kieran's gone through that happen in the shadows underneath the surface his performance is extraordinary in that context I think that's exactly the point you have to remember that throughout all of those challenges that he told us about.

1:04:57He was still having to deliver on the pitch. He was still taking Tottenham to a Champions League final. He was still winning La Liga with Atletico Madrid. And I think that is the true challenge that most people don't understand when it comes to elite athletes or anybody in that position is dealing with the hard stuff, but still delivering. And you know how often people get this podcast wrong and they go, oh, you're high performance. That's just about people talking about their success. Like that was a conversation really with Kieran about overcoming adversity. That's high performance. Yeah. And I love, I mean, what really came out to me was that, was just that willingness to throw yourself into it and have a go, like remove excuses because excuses remove the learning and just keep, so the example of his transition across to Spain and his view is, well, I just viewed it as an exciting opportunity.

1:05:46I think that is a really key distinction that any of us can learn from. And I really liked the fact that he would pick attitude over ability every time. And I think that's a great reminder for people listening to this podcast, that culture is, you don't either have a good or bad culture. You create a good or a bad culture, whether it is Sean Dyche and the strict rules about snooze and gloves and hats. Whether it is Maurizio Pochettino making sure that when you shake his hand, you look him in the eye. Whether it is Diego Simeone and that amazing story of just showing him a clip of him saying he wants to win La Liga Atletico and then walking out the room.

1:06:24or Eddie Howe getting them to create a senior leadership group here and that leadership group taking Newcastle to the Champions League. All of those are people creating cultures, making specific intentional decisions to take something from where it is to where it should be. And I think that's a great lesson. Well, that final comment that you made there, Jake, I think is key. It's intentional. And I think when you listen to Kieran, that those things are not gimmicks. They're not things that are done because you've seen somebody else do it. you've done it because you understand the intent behind it.

1:06:55We don't wear snoods because we don't wear them when we're playing. You know, we shake people's hands because it's a sign of respect and we need to respect each other. You know, we play as we train. All those things are intentional and that they're then all put together. And that's what creates that culture that he describes, like you say, as the ultimate competitive advantage. I really enjoyed it again. Yeah, it was a real privilege to hear somebody in Kieran's status some position being willing to come and speak so freely so i found it a real privilege thanks mate cheers mate well as always thank you so much for joining us um amazing to hear from kieran trippier i only want you to do a couple of things for me first of all please reach out i want to know what you made of this conversation i want to know the thing that resonated most with you the thing that you learned from the most and please man just share it by you sharing and subscribing it means we can grow this channel, the bigger we grow it, the greater the names we can attract and the more impact we can have for you.

1:07:53Thanks for listening and see you soon.