E202 - Ashley Cain: Everything losing my daughter taught me

0:01Hi there, this is High Performance, the award winning podcast that unlocks the minds of some of the most fascinating people on the planet. I'm Jake Humphrey, and alongside Professor Damien Hughes, we learn from the stories, successes and struggles of our guests, allowing us all to explore, be challenged and to grow. And before we get going, please be aware, this might be a difficult conversation for you to hear as our guest talks about the trauma of losing his child. Here's what's coming up today. I thought I'm going to stand up out my chair. Because if they walk in and tell me to sit down, I know it's serious.

0:37a team of about four people walks in. Sir, can you please take a seat? Every single second of every single day, I was scared. I was in pain. But I was fearful that every single second could be my last second with my daughter. I am fighting for the rest of my life out of the hope that if I'm a good enough person and I do enough good things that when I take my final few breaths it'll be a beautiful moment because I'll be at peace because I'll know that I've achieved enough to make it up there to be with her again for eternity. There's no time that it's too late because you always have today. It's never too late to reach your potential.

1:36It's never too late to be your best self. And today is always the best time to start.

1:44So this is a conversation with former footballer, former reality TV star, and now charity campaigner, Ashley Kane. Look, Ashley talks in incredibly honest, searing and moving detail about the loss of his beautiful daughter, Azalea. obviously the deep love he has for her shines through in this conversation but there's also a really interesting insight into how human beings react to trauma it's an insight into the energy that they can find that sense of purpose that Ashley has absolutely discovered in his life in fact as you'll hear in this conversation he now reflects on his younger life and refers to it as the lost years where he was just floating along no purpose no pride no true understanding of who and what he was.

2:31And of course, nobody wants to go through the trauma that Ashley's gone through, but there's so much for us to learn from a man who has experienced so many things at such a young age. Look, this was a difficult conversation to have, particularly as both myself and Damien are parents, but I also think it's a really important conversation to have. So I just want to start by thanking Ashley for coming on this podcast, opening up and sharing so much with you. Here he is, Ashley Kane on the High Performance Podcast.

3:09first of all welcome to the show nice to have you with us listen it's great to be here i mean this is probably the only podcast that i've actually recorded that i was a listener of so i was looking forward to this one today amazing so you know how it starts then what is your version of high performance? I used to always think that high performance was about your physicality, your God-given ability as such. And more recently, I've understood and I've realized that it's all about the power of your mind because I've never known how strong, how fast, how fit and how far I could push myself until I went through so much trauma and I found so much love that I'm prepared to break every barrier that's in front of me in order to reach her in the end.

3:56So for me, high performance is all about your mental strength, your purpose, and how willing you are to get there at all costs. So how are you now? How are you today? I'd say I'm level. I'd say that, you know, every day I wake up, I feel sad. I feel upset. I feel angry. I have a lot of underlying anger, which no one would even really know about. because I know how to control it well. The reason that no one would really know is because my objective in the world now is to try and affect everybody that I meet and everyone around me in such an incredible way to lift them, to encourage them to be better and to give them a better time on this earth with hope.

4:41So I guess I suppress a lot of emotions that I'm feeling, but I actually don't mind that. I think it's worth it. And I think with a lot of the training that I do, I call it daily humbling. It brings me back to earth. It makes me understand what the true importance is of who I am and what I'm doing. And it allows me to get through each day and appreciate the good times that I have, that I had, sorry, the good times I will have in the future for the things I'll create. And just the appreciation for the people and the things that I do have around me at the minute. So I guess the answer is that every day is very tough for me.

5:23I finish every evening when I'm at home by visiting my daughter at a resting place that's how I see my little baby girl now but I do that so I can not only show her the respect that she deserves but to tell her I love her, to tell her I miss her and also to say my prayers to God to protect her until hopefully the day that I'm there with her again I start my day off with gratitude, with appreciation for the eight months I had because even though I went through the worst thing I believe a parent can go through, I believe I'm the most blessed man on this planet to have been lucky enough to father a girl like Azalea.

6:01So I'm hurting, but I'm here. I'm level and I'm ready to kick on for another day, as always. That's a brilliant phrase you used, Ash, about a daily humbling. Yeah. I think we could all benefit with a bit of that. Would you tell us a bit more about... One thing that I find out on my journey is that there's so many people at the minute with, while suffering with poor mental health. If I'm going to be completely honest, I think some of that is warranted and some of it can be helped, can be worked on, can be conquered. If I sat on my sofa every day after what happened, you know, people tell me, Ash, you deserve a rest.

6:41I'll be honest. I have two days off and I sat on my sofa and I wish I'm not here anymore. I'm bored. My mind's wondering. So what I choose to do is like, say for example, this weekend, you know, tonight I'll be going home to go back to London. I'll probably kayak 26 miles through the night. I'll get up in the morning. I'll probably kayak another 26 miles. I'll probably kayak another 10 miles through the night. I'll get up Sunday morning and kayak another 26 miles. And then when I get back on Sunday evening, boy, doesn't that sofa seem so sweet. It seems like heaven itself. I think sometimes that we need to put ourselves through a little bit of daily struggle, a little bit of humbling.

7:19So we're not seeking something that's not attainable, but we're actually appreciating what we have right in front of us. I think it's necessary. You know, for people that haven't read your incredible book, and let me just say, it's the first book I've ever read where I've read it in one day. It is an incredible read. It's incredibly difficult to read, but incredibly easy to read at the same time, if you see what I mean and you know all three of us sitting here having this conversation know that incredible feeling of finding out what love actually is for the first time right which is when you hold your child in your arms and you realize that you thought you knew what love was and you really really didn't and of course we will talk about your beautiful daughter whose face shines out from that book um and actually who's like spirit and soul also shines through through your words which is really magical.

8:06But I think that before we talk about her, we need to talk about a life you lived, which in so many ways now on reflection looks like it was actually preparing you and building you for dealing with challenge. Should we share your story right from the very beginning because it is a recurring theme. I mean, can we go back to the testicle? Can we start there? Yeah. Because that's the first time. Why not? Let's start with the testicle, guys. People will be thinking, what are they talking about but it was almost the first time in your book i was like okay this this is a guy that is had to learn to deal with with some challenge let's go through them okay so at the time i was you know 14 years old i was rank one in the uk for 100 and 200 meters in athletics i was at coventry city academy with football i was a budding young prospect i can say that then it was the time to get my big chance to go to england school boys to play an international game against turkey you know i believed i was good enough and when i was in the training camp with england one minute i just felt it felt like someone just punched me straight in my balls like that's what it felt like or kicked me there but no one was near me i remember just going to the ground in so much pain and um there's been a lot of embarrassing moments in my life believe me there has been many i don't think none more embarrassing than this one when the doctor actually asked me if um if i'd had sexual intercourse before 14 years old wow i said where do you want me to sit he went sit over there have you had sexual intercourse and had to say yes in front of my mom after that conversation he told me far worse than the pain in the testicle oh it was far worse you know i'll take that over and over again it ended up i had a torsion they had to try and reverse it which it was unsuccessful and i ended up losing a testicle at 14 years old.

9:57Not only was that embarrassing, but it left me questioning, did that affect my growth? Did it affect my performance? You know, did it make me less of a man? All of these things were going in my mind at such a young age. It was just a bit of a crazy time in my life. And I think that was the start of when everything good in my life was about to happen. It always ended in a big bang. All the big occasions that I had in football where I was about to make my break or rise to a new level, I always had a big injury what happened last is is my last shot you know I went to Romania and I went to a team called Gazmatan Mediash and you know I got them really well out there the game was very technical out there it wasn't so physical so I went out there bigger than I probably should have been you know I hadn't really trained a lot got back from injury and I was probably about yeah I was a big dude you know but it played in my favour out there I was quick I was strong and I played as a number 9 and I basically went on pre-season tour with Gazmatan.

10:56I'd done all that stuff and then in between my contract it was a game and it was the kickoff and I ran forward to get the ball that got played over the top and I jumped up, I can remember it jumped up to chest the ball and as I landed like this, bang, and that was it. I had to get a taxi from Hungary to Romania, had to fly back to London, get a taxi from London home and then get a taxi back to London the next day to get emergency surgery. At that point, I decided that I needed to call it a day. It was no longer worth pursuing it. So beyond deciding to walk away from the game, which I can understand having gone through that persistent track record of setbacks, what were you saying to yourself in that taxi initially once you've overcome the shock that your Achilles has snapped?

11:48That's a pretty dark place. I'm interested in the conversations you were having with yourself. I'll tell you what it was. It was very lonely. You know what? It's really weird you ask that question because I've never felt upset about this before, but it struck a bit of emotion in me because I thought as a kid I was destined for greatness in some way or form, despite all the adversity that I felt at school. I used to get attacked every single day in my school by children, by kids, men that had left 17, 18, 19 years old used to call and wait for me in my gates because of the colour of my skin. Because there was nobody like me in my school.

12:25I used to have to go through that like from 12 years old to 15 years old every single day. You know what I mean? I was fighting, I was battered in. And then despite all the adversity that I faced, all of these things that happened to me, I believed that I was going to be something great. And in that taxi on the way home, I felt extremely lonely and I felt extremely lost because I didn't know where I was going. I didn't know what I was going to do. And I didn't know how I could find a way out to fulfill my destiny of being great anymore. So your whole life at this stage has been spent with a really clear choice of either you can fit in and become one of the pack or you can stand out and be exceptional.

13:11And you've chosen to be exceptional from a young age, whether that's academically with your results, whether it's physically in the different sports you're doing. I've always wanted to win. I've always wanted to do as well as I can. I've always wanted to reach my potential. And the sad thing is it got to a certain point, I think it was after my football, where that died in me. And despite the odds, like I said, I used to go to and from school to my nan's house, you know, and when this stuff was happening to me, mate, like, oh, imagine being a 13-year-old kid and you've got groups of six, seven lads in cars waiting for you outside the gate with weapons and stuff just because you're brown.

13:58You ain't done nothing wrong. And then that becomes every single day, not words, not just hurtful words, but yo, you're going to be in for it today. I used to think, eenie meenie moe, noe moe. Do I run the back way home from school? And it's the quickest way. but there's not many people to walk the back way. So if I'm getting a shoe in, I'm going to get a proper one. Or they'll go the front way, which is a lot longer, but at least I've got people there that could be around me. That was my decision every time. So I was running from a young age, but I'm used to fighting and I'm used to being in uncomfortable positions and I've been used to it since being a kid.

14:34And I don't look back at that. I think that was bullying. I don't look back at it and wish it never happened. For the life that I've had to live, that was necessary. the sad thing about my life is probably in the peak years of my high performance of my performance I was nowhere to be seen in that vicinity because after I retired from football I just had enough but you're someone who goes again yeah so if someone is in the place where you were when you were sitting in that taxi and that feeling that you were going to be special had finally died and you had to come to that sort of dawning realization that the dreams you had as a young guy weren't going to happen what would you say to them to help them get out of being in that place right now i thought that me being special had ended at 22 at 32 now i know that i ain't going to be as special as i want to be until probably i'm 40 50 or 60 there's no time that it's too late because you always have today it's never too late to reach your potential it's never too late to be your best self.

15:39And today is always the best time to start. I would tell people that no matter what you've gone through in life, as long as you're prepared to fight for something, you will find light at the other end of the tunnel. You will find strength at the other side of struggle. And you will find your most powerful self at the other side of your pain. 100 % fact. Because I look back to all of the main parts of my life which evoked a form of greatness in me and they're always through the toughest of struggles so you're talking about having read the book i'd call these the lost years right oh yeah reality show to reality show nightclub to nightclub vip appearance to vip appearance i'm gonna say one thing to start off it was fucking fun a couple of years good and like always i like to use this word sometimes necessary.

16:37You know, I love the word necessary because I believe, you know, a lot of things in life are necessary, whether they are good or they are bad. If I had gone through those years of my life of having such fun, experiencing such crazy things, I could probably, you know, end up having a midlife crisis at 50 and chucking it all down the pan. You know, I've got no urge for that life anymore because I feel like I've fully, you know, exerted myself in it. But what I would say is, and it kind of sums up social media at this day and age. As a guy in his 20s, you know, I'm doing TV shows. I have money. I have women.

17:12I am in a club three nights a week, four nights a week where everybody's coming to see me. I'm flying all over the world, DJing. I have cars, you know, it was absolutely insane. And I just remember like, I drove up to my godfather's gym, you know, to do a session, probably had a heavy weekend. It was probably Thursday at the time, still not recovered, but I thought I need to get a session in. And I remember parking in the Halfords car park and I just put my head down. And I remember like a tear coming down my eye and I thought, I don't know who I am anymore. I felt completely removed from the world because I had no direction.

17:50I had no purpose. I had no place which I could call home in which I wanted to build on and develop and make into a better one to see myself in 40, 50 years time. And I'm not talking about a physical house. I'm talking about like a place of my own growth and my own direction and my own end goal. The reality hit me that at some point I have to grow up. When I look back at it, I thought, what have I really got to show for all of those years of doing that? Had nothing. I didn't have a lot of money as a result. I didn't have a legacy. i didn't have self-respect self-worth or the respect from anyone around me what kind of life is that i think one of the most beautiful parts of your story is that when you needed ashley came to be at the center of things he was still because i think that you think that the beast is the strong one the beast is the powerful one the beast is the one that can deflect all the bullets It's made of titanium.

18:55But I think it's really important that you acknowledge that Ashley Kane is just as strong as the beast is. Because when your daughter started to get ill and you had to be delicate and kind and compassionate, but at the same time, you had to get the nurses and the doctors to buy into where you knew this had to go and you had to support her mum and you were staying in the hotel over the road and having to look after your family at the same time. Please don't ever think that the beast is strong and Ashley Kane is weak because I think at that time you had to be Ashley because Azalea didn't need the beast she needed her dad and her dad is Ashley and the strength that you showed in that time is greater than I think the strength that any of us could muster so understand how strong you are I really appreciate that and this is going to sound really strange yeah but you know in terms of in terms of like physicality and achieving like monstrous feats I'm doing more now than I've ever done in my whole life but the beast plays the smallest part in my life than it's ever played before and you know what it is like there is so many reasons why I will be eternally grateful to my daughter there's so many reasons why I will fight for her for the rest of my life.

20:15This little girl, you know, taught me how to be strong when I felt weak. She taught me how to be brave when I felt scared. And she taught me that no matter how you're feeling or what you're going through on a day-to-day basis, you can smile and you can make someone else's day a little bit better. Because no matter what she was going through, she gave me the best time I had and ever will have in my life. But another reason why I'll be eternally grateful to my daughter is because she allowed me to be me and she made me not afraid to be me and the true honest and purest version of Ashley Kane was at the forefront and it was a really nice feeling to be able to for once in my life just be who I am and just love and care and feel loved and not be afraid of what anyone else things.

21:08People always say about, you know, mindset and mental strength and all of this kind of stuff, you know, what's the reason for it? The reason for mine is because I love my little girl so much that I'm prepared to go through anything just out of hope that if I do, that I'll get to see her again. It's just because I absolutely love her with every single bone in my body. You know, I lived in hospital for six months, you know, for the first time in my life before having azalea, I built like a nest egg. I thought, you know, I want to do this properly. I want to be a great father, a great partner, a great provider.

21:48I want to make sure that my family has no worries at all. So I was building a little nest egg. I worked relentlessly. I worked very hard to build that. And then, you know, living in hospital for six months, I quickly began to understand, and this was what changed my mindset, that, you know, no matter how much I wanted to take my daughter's illness away, no matter how much I wanted to trade places, no matter how much I wanted to make it better, I couldn't. And that was a big moment for me because that allowed me to identify the fact that I would give 100 % to the few things that were in my control.

22:32Because, you know, in this stuff, we always worry about things that have happened to us or that are going to happen. We always worry about the situation that we're in. And a lot of times we can't affect any of those things. And we waste that much energy putting onus onto all the things that are out of our control that we have no energy left to put into the things that could actually be the things that could get us out of that situation. And so I chose at that point to just control the energy that was around my daughter, be the best man that I could be for every day, always smile in front of her, never let her see me or sense me sad or upset.

23:08And by doing those things at the time, which I believe were necessary, I ended up having the most magnificent time of my life. But what I mean is I was so focused on that little girl that my businesses didn't matter, my income didn't matter, my work didn't matter, my jobs didn't matter, which left me in a pretty bad financial state when I actually lost my daughter. Not only had I lost the one thing in this world that means more to me than anything else, but I had no money left. I didn't have a mindset or attitude at the time that even wanted to go out and get money. And all I was focused on is extending her amazing legacy in trying to help these children fighting cancer and in, you know, trying to help people in this world realize that no matter what you go through, you can make it out of the other side.

24:01That's all I cared about. You know, so I got into a really bad situation because I chose at that point to be fully true to myself, to my purpose and where I'm going. and if things didn't fit into one of those categories, I didn't entertain it to the point that it left me in a very bad financial situation where I was struggling to even be able to get food to the point where not only was my management kind of worried because they knew, but my family, my friends, associates and I just told them that I felt like I was on a divine path. I used to go outside like Forrest Gump every day running and cycling no training plan I didn't even know anything about endurance then I just ran and I ran and I ran and I cycled and I cycled and I cycled because I believed that my daughter was in heaven in the sky so I believed I needed to be outside so she could always see her daddy I remember just getting on my knees one day and saying to God like I've gave my last penny I give all my time I'm going through pain please give me something because I want to take her around the world and I want to create a better life for these kids but I need something to be able to do that and I stuck it out and I stuck it out and I stuck it out and then people started believing and things started coming and I'm so happy that I did and still to this day I turned down 10 times the amount of money than I make I turned down 10 times the opportunities that I take, but I always grab the right ones and I grab the right ones with both hands and I fucking make sure that I rock it till the walls fall off because they're the place where I need to be in the end, you know.

25:50You've found the power of purpose. Yeah. And in some ways, it's a really hard conversation. It's hard to get the tone right with this, isn't it? Because nobody wants to find purpose through losing their daughter. Nobody wants to have anything positive come out of that in some way because it feels, you know, I'm sort of explaining it badly, but it's hard to say, look at the things you've gained from a difficult situation when it's as difficult as it is. I can explain it to you. We all have a purpose. If I look back in my life, with my mentality and my mindset now, after going through what I've gone through, I can look at before I hadn't lost my daughter and realise what purpose that I could have had.

26:30The only difference is I wasn't humble enough to be able to see it because before I had my daughter and after losing my daughter, my life was all about me. That's the difference. You know, I could be a person that wakes up every morning now and goes, you know, I work seven days a week. I work 18 hours a day. I get up at four o 'clock in the morning. I go to bed at 12 o 'clock at night. I'm tired. I'm in pain. I'm suffering trauma. I'm depressed, I'm sad, I'm angry, why me? The only difference is I never ask myself those questions and I've never had so much strength and been able to identify so much purpose until I humble myself enough to realize that my life isn't just about me.

27:17There's a huge world out there, you know, you're not the first person and you're definitely not going to be the last person to go through what you're going through. Unfortunately, we're not unique in that. None of us are. We are all born and we are all going to die. That's a fact. So I just think, you know, life isn't never about what happens to you. What defines you is what you choose to do about it as a result. And it wasn't categorically in losing my daughter that made me find my purpose. it was being humble enough afterwards to be able to see it so can we honor azalea's memory and tell us about her birth tell us about i'd love to yeah i'm interested in the relationship you had with her mom when you found out she was arriving what that did for you yeah so one thing that people would have never known about me i think they can see it clear now i've always been a family man I wanted a big family, I wanted like five, six kids.

28:19And the interesting thing was my partner didn't want kids. Sophia didn't want kids at the time. But I worked on her and I worked on her and I told her I was going to be an amazing dad. I told her I'd be an amazing partner and I knew that she'd be an amazing mom. And we got to the point where we decided that that's what we wanted. The interesting thing is about that is, I'll go back to the point where we're thinking of names. yeah so i had like loads of names for boys it had to be an a you know you've got ashley you've got alicia you've got anthony alpheus a leon alexander abraham adolphus all in our family all a's yeah so it had to be an a so we went away and then we both came back and we had one girl's name each and each of us chose azalea without each other knowing i wanted to call azalea azalea lion cane Saf said, no, she's a girl.

29:13I said, I know, but I know she's going to be a lion. But we went with Diamond because that's my grandma's maiden name. So it was Azalea Diamond Kane. Little did we know that, you know, Azalea was going to be a Leo and she's born on World Lion Day. Crazy. The maddest thing is, when I actually found out that Saf was pregnant, I remember I went to the shop and bought a pregnancy test. I just had a feeling because me and Saf didn't, you know, Saf didn't conceive easy. We actually ended up going to the doctor to see if there was anything wrong. Turned out there wasn't. we just obviously weren't doing it right i don't know you know but um the one day i went to the shop and i bought a pregnancy test and she walked through the door and i literally opened the door and gave her and i said do you need a wee she went yeah i went please wee i told her to wee and leave it in there and i would get it and then i remember seeing it and it was positive and i shown her and i literally had a drink and and danced the whole night i literally just stood up while saf was on the sofa and I danced for Saf all night.

30:07Then when we had Azalea, it was the first time in my life where I ever felt like my life was, you know, kind of complete, you know, because I felt like, it's not like I had everything that I wanted, but I felt like I had that base there to work on. Like I said, that home where, you know, you make a house into a home. I had that. I've never had that before. And it made me happy because not only that, like I knew that my dad wanted to be a grandma more than my mom. Everything was great until, you know, about when Azalea was three weeks to a month old, she started getting a really stuffy nose. And this was during COVID at the time, isolation, lockdown, couldn't go to the doctor.

30:52So, you know, we rang the doctors or Saf would tell the doctor she's got a blocked nose. You know, he'd say it's a cold, you know, we've got the, we've got the pipette thing, you know, to suck to not have a nose, but I knew I couldn't do that because if my nan from the Caribbean, you know, found out I was sucking snot out of her nose at the pipette, she'd tell me to, you know, she'd say, put your malt around there and suck it out. So I used to just put my mouth around her nose and suck all the snot out because that's how you do it when you're from the Caribbean. But it turned out that, you know, nothing changed.

31:21And then all of a sudden she started getting a bloated tummy. So we rang the doctor again, you know. He said, maybe she's constipated. She got constipation tablets, nothing. Maybe she's got colic. you know, colic medication. And I mean, all of those things I've listed before are pretty normal things for like a one to two month year old child to have, right? One thing that I'd have to urge parents out there to understand is don't let anyone pressurize you into feeling like you're a panicky parent or that you're overreacting. You know, no one knows their child like a parent. That's a fact. And we knew that there wasn't something right.

32:01You know, one morning Sophia seen a bruise on Azalea's belly and it was a raised bruise. So in the end, you know, 111 got contacted and they told us that Azalea needed to go to hospital straight away. So they picked her up in an ambulance and took her in. The mad thing about that moment was, you know, we knew that something was serious at that moment. You know, your little baby's getting picked up in an ambulance to go into hospital. I still don't think I had any idea how serious it could be. And she had her bloods done. And it broke my heart because I didn't know at that point what it was. But to hear Azalea crying to see them pricking her fingers and her toes, I couldn't stand it.

32:46I couldn't take it. And then her bloods got taken and then we're waiting for the results. Now, me being the person that I am, because I'm always thinking, one thing about me, I'm always thinking, people might not think I am, but I am. I stood up. I thought, I'm going to stand up out of my chair. Because if they walk in and tell me to sit down, I know it's serious. A team of about four people walks in. Sir, can you please take a seat? Hit me straight away. I was like this, couldn't breathe. And then they told us that Azalea I've been diagnosed with a very rare and aggressive form of AMR leukemia.

33:36There was high risk and low survival rate. And, you know, when you usually pick up patients that have leukemia, they have like, you know, a white cell count of between 30 and 50. That's even as adults. Azalea's white cell count was 200 at two months old. and I'm not afraid to say I've had a lot of shameful moments in my life. That was one of them because I couldn't stand up. I couldn't function. I felt like part of my soul had been ripped out of my body. I was just upset. I was crying. And luckily, you know, Sophia at that point was right by Zalina in her bed because I was useless at that moment.

34:20I didn't know what to do. I felt like the whole world didn't have any colour anymore. I felt like I was moving in sludge. It was crazy. And then from that moment on, we left from Coventry Hospital to BCH, didn't even go home, and that was our home for the next six months. It was a global pandemic. We couldn't see family. We couldn't see friends. We couldn't go to the shop. We couldn't go home. We couldn't even be in the room at the same time as each other. I slept on the floor for nearly the duration of the six months that was my life and then what we did was I booked a hotel that was over the road from the hospital and what me and Sophia used to do we used to like hi you alright, we switch in yeah, I'd walk down from the hospital she'd walk down from the hotel we'd go like that, hi how's Azalea, is she okay?

35:15yeah she's alright today or no she's not alright today anything that we need to know yeah there's this or not really and we just go like that that that was our life I began to realize you know Azeli was admitted into intensive care straight away they didn't think she'd make it out of intensive care she did all the odds were against that little girl and she'd come very close but she made it through and I remember that one picture with her with a bravery certificate it breaks my heart but you know I look at it and I think that was the start of realising that I had such a strong little lion you know and her journey was very similar to mine with football like every bit of good news that we got on that journey straight away bang it was followed by something terrible I mean they told us that we were going to go through four rounds of chemotherapy she'd have a week of chemotherapy three weeks to recover then a second round to start again usually at the end of every month you get like two days at home as well just to you know experience home she's doing the first round of chemotherapy which they thought that would would be very tormenting on her body you know they thought it'd be very hazardous didn't know she'd be able to make it through she passed the first round of chemotherapy easy you know no side effects they cleared all the disease and they were very confident after the second round she relapsed very quickly for them to realize that there's no point doing round three and round four.

36:43She needs a stem cell transplant. What's difficult about a stem cell transplant is, you know, I'm half Sim Vincent, Vinci, half English, Sophia's half Burmese, half English. So what they told us was that it's going to be incredibly difficult to find Azalea a match because there's no match on the registry at the minute. At that point, you know, I rang Sophia and I said, get to the hospital because I'm going to the hotel and I'm going to get my daughter a match. I literally got on the phone to Anthony Nolan straight away in DKMS, the two largest registries in Europe and the world. And I said, I want to run a campaign for my daughter.

37:22And I worked tirelessly and tirelessly to put this campaign together. And I got it out there. Now, one thing that's mad is, you know, I'll be honest with you guys. Yeah. I've always been disappointed in myself all my life. because I've never ever reached my potential and I've never really known why I was doing what I was doing. I thought, what was the point in football? What was the point in reality TV? What is the point in all of my following that I have? What's the point? When we put the campaign out, we had 80 ,000 people registered to be Azalea's stem cell donor in one weekend. That was more than both of the leading registries in Europe had together in four years.

38:06And by two weeks, it was nearly, I think it was 200 ,000, which meant that, you know, not only would Azalea have a great chance to find a donor, but 200 ,000 other people now will have a potential match, which is absolutely incredible. went to the stem cell transplant. I thought it was going to be some crazy like chamber and all of this. They just literally put the new stem cells in through a central line in the chest. But you know, up until this point, you got to think, you know, the reason why I see life a bit differently now, you know, is because every single second of every single day, I was scared.

38:52I was in pain, but I was fearful that every single second could be my last second with my daughter. I couldn't bear the thought of night time. I got really scared at night time because I thought if I close my eyes, when I wake up, she potentially might not be here. That's how I learned to live in the moment and appreciate every single second of every single day. Today's podcast is brought to you in association with AG1. And it is one of my non-negotiables, one of the things that I make sure that every single day I bring into my life. So basically, let me just explain very quickly. AG1 is an all-in-one multivitamin.

39:35It has all of the nutrients. It has all of the goodness that I think my body needs in any given day. I know there's loads of different supplements out there. Trust me, I've tried most of them. I ended up taking about nine or ten different tablets at one point. But what I love about AG1 is that it's over 70 high quality vitamins, probiotics, whole food sourced ingredients. And it's a kind of 10 second part of my daily routine that makes a day long difference to my life. So I grab the powder, I put it in a shaker, put a bit of water in, shake it, drink it. And that's me done. And I promise you when I'm not taking AG1, I notice the difference.

40:11I'd love you to give it a go. And if you're looking for a simple, effective investment for your health, try AG1. honestly it is incredible me my wife a lot of my friends we will swear by it and i've got an offer for you you can get five free ag1 travel packs and a free whole year's supply of vitamin d with your first purchase if you want to take advantage of that offer just go to drink ag1.com forward slash high performance that's drink ag1.com forward slash high performance it's been a game changer for me it just might be for you check it out

40:48Have you kept hold of that lesson? 100%. It's made me be able to see life. You know, we only have the moments that we are living in now. This is a moment in itself, you know. It's a moment to appreciate. The point is I used to stay there every night and the morning times were the best times for me. And that's the reason why I am how I am now. At the minute, I can't go to sleep, you know. I have to have a hard day for me to go to sleep. I go to bed at 12, I get up at 4 because that's what is like a hospital. I'd go to bed at the very last moment until I couldn't stay awake and I'd get up early because I wanted to open my eyes to check if she's alright and then the morning times were the best time the morning times I'd open the blinds she'd already be looking over at me smiling you know I'd put the music on and we'd dance for a few hours you know and that was the most incredible time but then going into the stem cell transplant they told us that it was high risk it was low survival rate for her they told us that there was high chances of complication because you've got GVHD, which is graft versus host disease.

41:49They said that the chemotherapy leading into it and the procedure itself might be, you know, too much for a child so young. It could take three to six months for it to engraft. Three weeks, fully engrafted, no side effects, no GVHD, you're thinking. But you got to think at this point, it's done. this is the cruelest part of the whole story probably we're like oh my god it's done the oncologist is saying you know you can go home you guys in azalea are now outpatients like you come in you know once every couple of weeks get checked out make sure blah blah but you know she's done it so we went home and we got called back in for azalea to have her you know checkups, but this was a day where we're ringing the bell.

42:39So this is when you see on Instagram and Facebook and all these things where the nurse is lying in the corridor and the kids walk down and ring the bell. That's to say that you have beat cancer. So we go into the hospital and, um, obviously Azalea was very popular in the hospital. So pretty much every nurse that was there was waiting in the corridor for her because everyone wanted to see her ring the bell we went in and these are the little things that I don't talk about but you put her in her best out of it you know you make sure you look nice South looks nice because it's a big day it's like your wedding day isn't it it's a thousand times bigger than that and we went in seeing everyone went in the room to get a check up to walk out to ring the bell And the oncologist walks in like she'd just seen a ghost and she said Azalea's relapsed.

43:36And she's not only relapsed, we found tumours in her stomach, in her kidneys, in her spleen, in her lungs.

43:55and then they went there's nothing we can do and at this point I pulled Saf and I pulled the oncologist and I said we're going out to ring that bow because because she deserves to ring that bow and I said while we go down to ring that bow you better think of the next thing that you can do because there's no way I'm taking my daughter home right now I said we've fought too long and fought too hard for this so we went out and rang the bow and then we come back in and I just said what's the plan I said you have to understand I said I've been so kind I said I've been so considerate to all of you guys the whole way through because I know how hard you work I I said, but if you think I'm a man that is going to take his daughter home now to die, I said, you've got another thing coming.

44:46I said, so you better have a think. I said, because we ain't going nowhere. I said, she's a fighter and I said, she'll continue to fight. So we had to battle and try and find new drugs that pharmaceutical companies wouldn't release. We got them because I made sure we got them. We got treatment that they would have never gave us. And we got them because I made sure we got them. and then lastly we found you know this place in singapore there was a there was a few places in the world but nobody would take children under you know two years old china wouldn't accept anybody because of covid so we found this place in singapore which um said that they could you know do something with azalea that had a success with a child that we knew who was speaking to her family.

45:34It was approved by everybody in the UK. So we got everything ready. So she had to have another lumbar punch so they could send samples over blood tests, everything like that. And then we found out how much the treatment was going to be. The initial deposit was£500 ,000 and they thought we'd have to be out there for nearly two years. So basically we set a target of a million pound for the GoFundMe because that would probably cover the first year. that wasn't the full amount that it probably would have amounted to but that would have been enough I was actually planning then to cycle from the hospital in Birmingham to Good Morning Britain Studios as a fundraiser to try and raise it and then talk on GMB and what I ended up doing was when I was on the way to the hospital I ended up posting the campaign the night before but didn't tell anyone and then because I posted it so I was like oh let's just let's just let's just announce it now before you do your ride and I'm like yeah okay it was the fastest million pound ever raised on GoFundMe and it went to 1.6 that goes to show you know how much of an impact that little girl had to the world I remember the smile was what was what got me that day yeah and I've heard that from a lot of people since and in the book that smile was always there no matter what she was put through and no matter what everyone else went through she went through more than anyone and still the smile do you understand that i talk in layman's terms yeah and i just talk what i think yeah and when i try and explain what my daughter did for me there's so many different things but it's just i've never had a hero when you see someone in front of you that's you know fighting like this, overcoming this, and then still trying to stand up, still playing, still smiling, still grabbing you, still pulling you.

47:28She was like a tenacious little cute. She'd have been a nightmare, mate. She'd have been an absolute nightmare. When you're seeing this, I was thinking, what have I got to worry about? What am I worrying about? What am I concerned about? What am I moaning about? Give yourself a wobble. Do you know what I mean? And she was doing that and it was mad because it wasn't just me and Sophia and our family. I was getting thousands and thousands of messages a day. People are going, they don't want to take their life anymore because they've seen what she's battling through. And if she can battle through that, they can battle for anything.

48:01Imagine seeing this, all this for the first time. They're lighting up Niagara Falls Orange. They're like mad stuff. You know, I got messages off the rock. Carmelo Anthony, Lakers play. I just couldn't understand. I thought this girl is shining light in the whole world that's going through a global pandemic so we raised the money we raised the money in under 24 hours but like probably 12 hours we're like we can go so we're literally booking the flights because we already had the hospital and the accommodation sorted we're booking the flights and the oncologist walks in you can't believe it can you it's like a like a story oncologist walks in and says I've got some incredibly bad news she can't at this point she can't speak the oncologist is struggling to speak you know she said we found tumours on Azalea's brain she won't be able to fly she can't have radiotherapy it'll kill her she can't have a lumbar puncture so we can give her intrathecal chemotherapy because there's too much pressure in her head and it will kill her so we think the best thing that you can do is take her home

49:20and try and enjoy your last days I'm saying how can I enjoy anything like that so at this point you know we're taking Azalea home and what was really horrible when she got taken home, she had to be in an ambulance strapped to a bed, yeah. And you're taking her home for end-of-life care. And have you seen that picture where Zaylee's like this? She took a picture and she put her hand up like this when she's going home for the final time. Now, at this point, that was the worst part of my life because no matter if she had 1 % chance, I hung on to the hope that we had. And we were taking her home because it was inevitable that she was going to take her last breath there.

50:13And there was no hope. And I was scared and Sophia was scared as a parent because all the time you're with your little girl in hospital, you've got nurses, you've got oncologists, you've got people to come in and be there in case something happens. the reality is we didn't know how Azalea was going to pass away. When Azalea was crying and she was in pain, she would bleed from her eyes. She would bleed from her ears. She would bleed from her nose. Because it was ripping apart her body. And I found hope again. Because hope was no longer, I want my daughter to live and I want her to survive. My hope was that when she passes away, I hope it's peaceful and I hope it's in my arms.

50:56And I held on to that. And I remember like, the morning that it was, me and Sophia just both knew that this was going to be it. And we didn't, we took all of her monitors off. And we wrapped our arms around her. And I just remember like, I just, I just remember looking at her. She got... Another one, two.

51:30One, two, three, four. I was going to saw her baby. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight. It's okay, baby. 1, we're here, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12.

52:09Unless you didn't breathe again.

52:16I never will be able to explain how that feels. I had to have medical attention because when we found out that we thought it was going to be the last breath, we rang the ambulance anyway, even though we didn't think it would come. I had to get put on gas in there because I couldn't breathe. My whole body locked up. I felt that a part of me died when my daughter took her last breath. It left me. A part of my soul left me. I wasn't the same person after that. The maddest thing is, and I haven't really talked about this, I thought it would be okay to keep her at home. And I could, and it was all right.

53:00I was still with my little girl and, you know, I could still walk around with her, still put her in a chair. Weren't ready for the funeral director to pick her up. I thought I'd just have her there forever now. I'll keep her there. You don't really see sense at those points. You're not really ready to accept the reality of it. that um that moment in the book stands out quite clearly where you it's almost the first time the loss of control because i know that when she went into hospital for the first time you created club 100 which was total positivity in this room with this little girl at all times which is credit to you and the family around you that whenever you were with azalea it was it was a purely a positive experience for her she didn't see the sadness and then when you went home um and it was how on earth are we gonna get through the days end of life care with our daughter i don't think i can was flipped by you and by saf and by the family to be we enjoy every single second with her at home and even when she died the other control was in our arms how we want it to be um in the book it's very moving when you talk about the funeral is the first time that you have no control and she's on her own um and i think for someone who lived controlling every possible controllable that was the most moving moment really of the book for me that you know at the very last moment there was no no control was there that's the hard thing and like i say you know in life you I like to be a person that, you know, can learn something from a situation for it to make me a better man, you know, no matter what it is.

54:49And even though I had new control, I made sure I found a new hope. I didn't let it, I let it be that the thing that I, that we make sure that happens now is that, you know, our daughter goes peacefully and she goes in our arms. even till the day like a few days before she passed away we were taking her into hospital and forcing the hospital to take azalea so she could have um blood transfusions platelet transfusions so we knew that she wouldn't bleed out we shouldn't bleed out from the inside because the platelets stopped that they wouldn't they didn't want to they wouldn't take her me and Sophia made them take her so that wasn't the case so that she could go peacefully we didn't stop fighting until the last minute you know but there's something I want to contrast two of those moments that first of all thank you for sharing them you described that you felt ashamed when those four doctors came in and you'd stood up to prepare yourself for the bad news when they asked you to sit down and your reaction to it, which to us is very human.

56:05You're in shock, but you described the sense of shame you felt. And yet that moment when she passed away, what is significant is you don't attach shame to that. Your human reaction of needing gas and air and being in such a deep state of grief, you accept that as human. And I'm wondering whether that's possibly the best lesson that you've taken from it, that you felt you had to be invulnerable in that first meeting, but what she's taught you. No, do you know what I take from it? I take from it, like, what sport do you guys play? Mine's boxing. So you're sparring, right? You're sparring and, you know, you sprain your wrist.

56:48Like that bang, you take a hit, you sprain your wrist. And then you go for the next four, you've got four rounds to do. and you know it's a bit sore but you're still putting punches straight through him bang bang bang bang bang as soon as you've done your last round of sparring you're like fuck fucking wrist I don't think I sprained it I might have broke it you know what I mean like when I've done these challenges I'm hurting but like I'm fine as soon as I finish I feel like I've I've broke something because the adrenaline's gone that for me was that moment she took her last breath and she didn't need me to be strong anymore and i just i just went i'm interested in um how what you went through impacted your faith the whole way like during the journey you know and after losing azalea it made me question it because i thought you know if there is the good old Lord up there, how possibly can this be happening?

57:52You know, why would he do this? But then I started to think, number one, if I am a true man of faith, which I'd like to believe that I am, then I would know that Azalea is now in peace. She's in paradise and she's in heaven. She definitely made it to heaven because she's as pure as pure can be. and she's in the place where we all wish to go in the end. I don't believe there is heaven and hell. I believe that we're living in hell, because there's so many things that we have to combat on a day-to-day basis, and I believe that, you know, in the end, we should be working towards making our way to heaven.

58:35So that's what I thought. But the most important part was I sat there, and it made me upset because I thought faith is the only thing that I have left right now and what I mean by that is because if I don't have faith I don't believe in God if I don't believe in God it means there is no heaven if there is no heaven then my daughter isn't up there and I have nowhere to go home in the end to be with her again if I'm completely honest I I am fighting for the rest of my life out of the hope that if I'm a good enough person and I do enough good things, that when I take my final few breaths, it'll be a beautiful moment because I'll be at peace.

59:32Because I'll know that I've achieved enough to make it up there to be with her again for eternity. my dad said that to me you know you read my book yeah my dad said to me after reading the book my dad's a hard man I didn't even touch him until about two years ago he would tell me he loved me you know we used to grapple we used to scrap but we wouldn't hug or hold hands or whatever you know what I mean the guy never told me he was proud of me in my life you know he was always what I did wrong or I ain't doing this or yeah whatever it was you know after he read my book you know not only did he say that I should be proud of myself and he was proud of me and that little girl would definitely be proud of me but he said what really hurt him and what's really sad is I'm living the rest of my life for the final few seconds and the only thing I can say to him is you're right does that make you sad?

1:00:24no not at all we did an interview with a Paralympian called Steph Reid who spoke to us about an accident she'd endured where she lost her leg in a motorboat incident and she spoke to us about the psychologist at the hospital when she was 16 when it happened to her told her that most parents don't stay together after a traumatic event like that it can often drive them apart i'm interested in how this has impacted your relationship with azalea's mum but equally how how you deal with relationships in other areas of your life now yeah interesting question you know I don't usually really speak on this but if I'm going to be completely honest you know I will love Saf for the rest of my life you know I will be there for Saf and I will care for Saf and I believe that'll be replicated by her you know we do live together at the minute you You know, it's like we're a couple, but not a couple.

1:01:31We're not like a couple because we have no future and we don't have a relationship. I mean, in terms of like we spend time with each other, we help each other out, and we are working at the foundation with a joint kind of mission of creating a brighter future. We're always going to have this bond because, you know, I gave Saf and she gave me the greatest thing we could have given each other in this world. but I think what it does is you know when life is smooth and when life is sweet yeah and when you haven't got a burning desire in your stomach for something you are in a relationship because a relationship has to be about compromise doesn't it you know you have to you know put as much into the other person as you put into yourself you know I think what this kind of thing has done for me and my relationship with Saf and going forward, it's not so much like I'm not available for people because I'm available for my family, I'm available for Saf, I'm available for my friends, but I don't really have a joint mission with anyone else in the things that I individually need to do.

1:02:37I don't really want to go out for meals and I really don't want to go out for dates and I don't really want to go on holidays. That's not what it is. For me, I kind of think that I'm a good man. I think that I'm a good friend. I think I'm a good family member. I even think I'm a, you know, a good person to staff. I guess the difference is I know that my journey is going to be very lonely. And sometimes when I can distance myself from people is because I don't want to hurt them because I'm not trying to hurt them. I'm not doing anything to hurt them, but I can't give them as much of me as they need because all of me has to go down this path to where I want to go in the end.

1:03:21I can't say what Saf thinks but I think for me it's not that I don't kind of love everyone around me as much, it's just that I'm not willing to compromise on the person I need to be in the places where I need to go. I'm going away next month you know flying to Canada you know I'm doing a thousand mile kayak from Canada to the Arctic Circle to Alaska, world's toughest survival endurance race. A real good chance possibly that I don't make it back. You know, when you're in these big waters, these cold waters, these rough waters, you can't predict them. If you go in and you're drowning, you're finished.

1:03:59It's unsupported. If you get hypothermia, it's two to four days for any rescue crew to get to you. If you're in grizzly bear or wolf territory and they're hungry and have had a bad day, you're fucked. I'm the least experienced person to have ever attempted the race. I'm going away thinking that there is a good chance that I don't come back from this. So it's going to definitely be my biggest challenge yet. And, you know, most people around me, well, I think pretty much every single person around me has asked me not to do it and doesn't want me to do it. But there's something about me now, which is I keep the promises that I make.

1:04:39I was a brave enough man on my daughter's day to stand up and speak her eulogy, you know, and I said I wanted to take her to the top of every mountain, to the bottom of every valley, along every road, across every ocean, north to south, east to west. I told her I'd take her there. So whenever I get a little bit scared or a little bit worried, I just think whenever would I get to take my daughter from Canada to the Arctic Circle to Alaska, and I know that she'll be watching me and i truly believe that i will be protected until she needs me back and if she needs me back i'm fine because i can go home and that's what i think but i'm not planning on that but you're not being reckless because there's a thought in your head that actually if that did happen after all the good you've done at the moment you'd get into heaven so if it happens nah nah because you you know listen you've spoken in the past about you know the drinking and And then suicidal thoughts.

1:05:35Yeah. And maybe even getting close to doing that. And I just think that we all have to be really careful that we are still protecting ourselves rather than putting all of our energy into charity, all of our energy into going down the Yukon, all of our energy into physical challenges, all our energy into keeping the memory of those we've lost alive, that we forget that we also need something in a selfish way sometimes. And I know that you can't see that because everything's for her. but Ashley Kane also needs stuff you know yeah but Ashley Kane is the person that is you know doing these things but also I get the benefit of feeling like I can help people every single day don't get me wrong I'm also getting to come to some pretty cool places and meet some cool people I still have my life and I'm fully aware of that my daughter's allowed me to be in certain situations that I would have never made into before which I'm grateful for but you know when I talked about being special and doing things, bro, I ain't even started.

1:06:37I don't think I've achieved a lot. I don't feel like I've achieved jack shit yet. I'm literally just getting warmed up. And this is what I was going to say about when I was talking to you guys before, you know, the Azalea Foundation has done so much in the last two years, an incredible amount in its foundation, in its infancy. My journey that I'm on now only started two years ago. You know, I'm still in my infancy. I'm not trying to, and I do not think I'm the best athlete out there. I don't think I'm going to run the quickest 100 miles, the quickest kayak ultra, the fastest 1 ,000 miles, anything like that.

1:07:11Because the difference is, if you've got like a David Goggins or someone else, they've been training for 10 years to do ultras. They're probably 75 kilos. People that kayak, they've been doing it all their life. My point is, if I'm going to run 100 miles, I train for two, three months. So I'm going to kayak 100 miles. I've trained for two, three months. With this Yukon thing, I've been training a bit longer. But my point is I want to consume the world and know that not only am I nearly fit and capable enough to do it, but it's more I have the mental capacity to drive through at all costs. And that's the power of me as a person.

1:07:46I'm 95 kilos. I'm a big dude. I'm not meant to run marathons. I ain't meant to do all this enjoyment stuff, but I can because my will is strong enough. and I feel like that's what I take from this thing, not being the best, but being capable, being able to do it. And I ain't finished, I'm literally just getting started. So, you know, I want to make it back from this and I've got credentials to go further and further again. And I think it's incredible, but there's a quiet skill I'm interested in, whether you've had the time to practice getting comfortable with the discomfort of sitting on that sofa and just dealing with the uncomfortable thoughts.

1:08:25Have you had counselling since Azalea died? No. Because it sounds to me, Ash, as if one of your coping mechanisms is to fill it with activity and this sense of purpose. And I get how powerful that is for you to be able to do that. but I'm also wondering whether that ability just to be able to sit with those uncomfortable thoughts is somewhere where you could go next. What do you think sitting in a kayak here with no conversation, pitch black, no sound, no nothing, do you not think that's sitting in uncomfortable thoughts? Do you think you're not thinking then? It is, yeah, but it's also still doing an activity.

1:09:12it's still with a sense of purpose behind it. What would you suggest then? I'm not suggesting anything. I'm just interested in that taxi ride in Romania when you've got a snaps Achilles and those feelings of loneliness. I travel back and forth to London and everywhere most days. I mean, look, the benefit, I guess, of, I'm going to count you there. I've had this before, but, you know, I am, number one, I talk to so many different people. So, you know, when you talk about counseling, I've never been to counseling, but bloody hell, this was like a counseling session today. You know, I do this kind of thing every day, different podcasts, different interviews, even my own show where I talk to people about grief.

1:09:53I'm constantly, whether it's people on the street, it's not just family members or people that are close to me. I'm talking to so many different people on the day-to-day basis, either about their problems or venting my own or talking about what I've been through. You know, I've written the book, I've narrated the book. I spend a lot of time in my life isolated because it's not like when I'm not working, I'm just around people. Of course, I have moments where I have to sit on my sofa. Of course, I travel a lot. Of course, I have those moments where I need to be by myself because I do need to think.

1:10:27I go visit my daughter at a resting place every single night, sometimes for 10 minutes, sometimes for an hour. I sit by myself and think. I'm always thinking. One of the most recent things that happened is I went on holiday, my brother and my cousin, Tamika and Mattie. It was one of the most rewarding things I've ever done since losing Azalea and one of the best times I've ever had. And probably the first time that I didn't feel guilty for actually just doing something for me. You know, we laughed, we cried, we reminisced, we trained. It was beautiful. So I do have, you know, my own time, but what it is, is I just have a burning desire to, to, to, to, to fulfill my destiny.

1:11:09And I think some people are chosen to do things. Some people aren't, some people are chosen to do things and they take it and they make it. Some people fail. I just don't want to be the person that I felt because even though you may sit here and say, you know, do you ever think you you need to sit in your thoughts or whatever you think you need to rest. Everything that I've done so far has helped people, has benefited people. And sometimes, like I said, yeah, your life ain't just about you. It's how much you can affect other people. And I always make sure that I'm in a good enough, strong enough condition to carry on fighting.

1:11:45And as long as I can carry on fighting, I'll keep swinging and I'll keep swinging until I can't swing no more. You know, because I believe that I'm here for a reason and I don't want to fulfill that. Love it. Final question. We often term it your golden rule for living a high performance life. What would you leave us with? I guess I'd like to tell people that hard times are inevitable. We're going to have to face them at some point. But I always advise people not to run away from those hard times, from that pain, from that struggle. I'd always tell people to face it, sometimes running head on into it, and learn how to embrace it.

1:12:30Because with a bit of persistence, with a bit of grit, and with a bit of fight, you will find the light at the other end of the darkness. You will find strength at the other side of your struggle, and you will find unimaginable power at the other side of your pain. You don't have to be 100 % every day. Just showing up is enough. keep showing up. I think obviously nobody would ever want to go through what you've gone through. And thank you very much for sharing, you know, the real searing honesty of the story and the journey you've been on. But I sit here and I see a man with absolute clarity, total understanding of where he is, where he needs to go and a rock solid self-belief that he's going to get there and he's going to change the world for the better.

1:13:22So thank you, God, for Azalea, right? Every day. Thank you. Damien. Jake. Well, that was an incredibly moving conversation. Both of us have had to sort of just have a bit of time to gather ourselves before we record this little wrap-up. I think it would be very hard to instantaneously reflect on the conversation that we just had. And as parents, it's really hard for anyone, it's hard to hear that conversation. I think as parents, it carries a particular pain because it's probably your biggest fear as a parent. But I actually think that when you look at Ashley, you see someone who has harnessed the power of that pain.

1:14:08And I think that when people have been through something that he has, when people have been through a trauma, you know you talk about post-traumatic growth sitting in front of us was a guy who has experienced post-traumatic growth and as heartbreaking as it is he is using the death of beautiful little azalea to drive real change in this world yeah i mean it's one of the most difficult conversations that that i've had on the podcast like you say so the emotion was palpable but I think what Asher's taught us is something around staying in that moment of pain that moment of discomfort and exploring it rather than seeking to deny it or dismiss it or even delete it from our lives actually go and explore it and tell us what is it teaching us and I think what's obviously happened for him is that he's explored this sense of purpose the idea that he wants to honor Azalea's memory and the difference he can make for so many others and there's that old saying the two most important days of your life are the day you're born and the day you realize why you were born and i think what he's described there is that second day that the the reason he was put on the earth he's got an answer to that and the power and purpose that gives him is uh is incredible to witness i hope for his sake that in the coming years and this is obviously still so fresh for him and the trauma is still so so new um that i want him to find i'd like him to find a bit a bit of balance if it's the right thing for him i think that you know hopefully there'll be a day where he can still honor her memory he can still do amazing things for families going through the same thing that he went through you know the the light that she's shone in his life will never be dimmed but I also hope that he can find a way forwards, like another life as well.

1:16:03So he still is and always will be Azalea's dad, but he can be someone else as well as that, you know? Do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was reminded of when we spoke to Kevin Sinfield on this, where Kevin spoke about some of the physical endurance challenges he's taken on to honour his friendship with Rob Burrow. And Kevin seems to reconcile himself to the fact that physically he won't always be able to when to go through those endurance challenges but he'll find a way of doing it whether it's through speaking at dinners fundraising or just shining a spotlight on it and i hope for ash that he manages to find something where he doesn't have to subject himself to further pain further endurance to be able to uh to make a difference but also so he can actually like meet another partner yeah maybe have another child you know be comfortable in his own skin in the silence without needing that period to be just purely reflection on the past you know like he i want him to live and grow again you know yeah and that was what like we mentioned to him at the end and then he seemed to bissel a little bit with the idea that he he hasn't gained that acceptance of sitting in the silence and being comfortable with that discomfort you know because he said i do it when i'm in a canoe in my kayak where i'm practicing but what i meant is not having to do something with activity just sitting alone and without having to move or uh or be engaged in that activity so like you say i think that's i think we're speaking to him at a very particular stage of his journey out of the grief yeah and i think that if we were to come back and speak to him in a couple of years time i'd hope that he'll have moved on and be in a different place to be able to reflect on that but also let's all allow him to be where his feet are like where he is now is where he needs to be yeah it may well be that this is where he always is always for a long period of time you know it's about what's right for him on his very personal grieving process after you know a trauma that is unimaginable and we wouldn't wish on anyone.

1:18:15I think what I'd encourage anyone to take away from this, though, is exactly what you say, that everybody grieves in their own way. Everybody needs their own space. And I think to allow people that time and space and just to be with them, you don't have to answer the question. You don't have to push them in a direction. You just have to stand with them wherever they are at that moment. is a really powerful lesson for any of us that want to be an encourager for others on their own high-performance journey. Thanks, mate. Thank you, mate. So there you go. Ashley Cain opening up and sharing so much of his story, his emotion and the things he's learned on the High Performance Podcast.

1:18:58Of course, every single member of the team, and I'm sure you'll join me in wishing him well on the Yukon 1000. Sounds like a frightening thing to be taking part in. But, you know, as we discussed in that conversation, the clarity and the strength that you're given when you find a true purpose in your life can do so much for you. And I know that Ashley will attack that challenge with all of the energy, the vigor and the desire in his body. Of course, as well as listening to this conversation, you can watch this on our YouTube channel as well. Just go to YouTube and search for the High Performance Podcast.

1:19:31But I just want to say thank you to you for continuing to trust us on High Performance with these kinds of conversations. I know that despite that being a hard listen, there are so many things all of us can take away, not least the fact that we should be grateful for the time we spend with the people we love. Thank you very much for listening, and I'll see you soon for another episode of the High Performance Podcast.

1:20:07Thank you.