Fernando Alonso: 99% of the time you will not succeed (E211)

0:00Before we get going, just a quick reminder that you can download the High Performance App for free. download the app use your exclusive code H-P-A-P-P that's H-P-A-P-P for access where you can hear Simon Sinek guiding me through a process to help me find my why just download the High Performance app for free and use the code H-P-A-P-P for access. Hi there you're listening to High Performance the award-winning podcast that unlocks the minds of some of the most fascinating people on the planet. I'm Jake Humphrey and alongside Professor Damien Hughes we learn from the stories, successes and struggles of our guests, allowing us all to explore, be challenged and to grow.

0:43Here's what's coming up today. When I got to Formula One Michael Sumacher was dominating the sport but I never thought that I was slower than him. When I closed the visor I remember everything that we spoke on Sunday morning with the team, executing the race as a robot. That's the beauty of the sport, that even if you want to do something with no emotion, everything comes alive in certain moments of the race. Second is the first losers. In the sport, you win or you don't. What I regret for sure, and we touched before, was not to enjoy more my time, my career.

1:27Fernando Alonso, one of the greatest ever Formula One drivers, joins us today on High Performance. And you know what? You've spent your life seeing Fernando Alonso be incredible behind the wheel of a car, but you've also seen Fernando Alonso behind the visor of a Formula One helmet, right? For almost the first time, I think that we're lifting the visor. We're having a conversation with Fernando about things that he doesn't talk about. We're asking him questions that he never gets asked. and I can't tell you how fascinating this conversation was. You know, there are times where Damien and I say a lot less because we're just listening intently to the guest and that's absolutely the case with Fernando.

2:06Of course, we talk about Formula One, but we talk about in the context of how do you keep on performing at an elite level? How do you overcome self-doubt and fear? What has he done that allows him to perform to the level he does? and honestly listen to what he says about preparation because it doesn't matter whether you're preparing to race in a Formula One Grand Prix or take some exams at school or present to your colleagues at work or get yourself ready for retirement it doesn't matter what stage of life you're in it doesn't matter what you're doing preparation is the secret sauce and you're about to hear that it has made all the difference for Fernando Alonso a man who in his 40s is as driven as ever and believes he's also the best formula one driver he has ever been fernando alonso the two-time formula one world champion on high performance fernando thank you very much for joining us thank you so when i say high performance what do you think of i think many many things First of all, Formula One, because it's the expression of high performance in motorsport.

3:24But for me, it's maybe delivering higher than expectations and having that extra something on everything you do. And that probably for me means high performance. You see, everyone dreams of delivering a little bit extra, a little bit more. How do you go about finding that little bit extra? Well, I think we all try to give that little bit extra. As you said, it's something that we all try to achieve, but it's a little bit relative, and especially in a sport, you have the comparison with your main competitors. So it's doing that little extra compared to them and finding the best version of yourself, which is an unlimited probably surge because every day there is something that you can learn and you can improve.

4:24So it is a difficult task but it's something that you pursue in life and in sport as well. And is that not tiring? You're now 41 and you've been pursuing that little extra something all your life. Not really, not really because I think even if you are not in a professional sport you will start pursuing something in your personal life or you will try to achieve different goals in different businesses of different things that you may start in your life after your motorsport career. So I think it's a way of living in a way, but it's something that is not tiring. It's just pure motivation, I think, to wake up every morning and do a little bit extra.

5:10So, Fernando, you started your driving career at the tender age of three. Yeah. Tell us a little bit about your family, because I'm interested in your family's motivation to allow you to get behind the wheel of a go-kart at such a young age. Yeah, my first race was at the age of three, which at the moment right now is not legal anymore. I think the driver's license for go-kart started at eight now, so that's good. to don't have kids at three years old behind a wheel. But back then, my father was a go-kart driver, just driving around my region, never on a national level or not international for sure.

5:55And yeah, more for fun than anything else, created a small go-kart handmade for my sister that is five years older than me. So my sister was eight. my sister didn't like the go-kart on that first couple of days that my father tried and then yeah eventually he put me in the go-kart and you know I like it and yeah as I said I did my first race at the age of three it was a street circuit I don't remember anything of course but I have the videos and the photos of that day and I think the race was 15 laps and I did two of them so I got lapped 13 times and in 15. But yeah, they told me that I won the race.

6:40So I was happy after all. And yeah, that's how I started. But I'm interested in their perception of risk and what that taught you. Because as you say, the rules have changed now when you have to be eight at least to get behind the wheel of a car. So can you remember anything around the advice that they gave you? Not really. And I think the speed of that go-car obviously it was like five or six kph you could walk alongside the go-car so it was not fast at all and the risk maybe for my parents was not a risky thing to do but I think it's something that especially families in motorsport they have to to deal with it they have to have a different perception of risk because you know every every time we jump on a on a racing car you know anything can happen you know now the cars are very safe the circuits are very safe as well we we are in good hands with our teams the FIA everyone is trying to protect us but anything can happen so I think if I put in in in the shoes of my parents or anyone that is racing for sure there is this risk factor that you have to to know how to deal with it so what did your parents give you when you decided to make this something you wanted to pursue i mean i love the fact that you didn't come from a billionaire family with millions of pounds worth of backing from the very start you know really humble origins but your parents like they must have done something this competitive spirit this will to win even just the emotional confidence they gave you to go out and try your best yeah it is it is a very interesting question because i spoke many times with with with them with my parents and with my family in general because they are not at all competitive.

8:35So I don't know how I can be that competitive in everything I do. They still remember when we were playing games at home or cards or anything at home, I was so competitive and I was so upset with them. I could maybe not talk to them for one day if I was not winning, all these kind of things. And they never understood why I was like that because no one in the family, you know, had this approach. So, yeah, still unknown at the moment. So what did they say when you asked them, like, how did this happen? What's their answer? For them, it was more a fun thing to do on the weekends. Obviously, they had to work on the weekdays.

9:18My mother on a shopping mall just selling perfumes and my father on an explosive company just doing an explosive for the mines in my region. So the weekends was kind of a fun weekend with other families, this motorsport enthusiasm with the kids driving go-karts, but with no expectations at all that that could become one day a professional thing. So I don't know. All started like this. I won the Spanish championship in 1994. And then one Italian mechanic showed me there in the Spanish championship and said, you have to come to Italy and race in your European championships and world championships.

10:09And my father answered, we can't afford to travel to Italy and those kind of things. So they said, okay, I will speak with the factory and they can help you. So, yeah, it's how I started. So can I go back though and ask, is there a particular moment that you remember that you had to win, that that competitive fire was inside of you? From what I remember, it was like a Spanish championship, I think back in 97. I won the world championship, karting world championship in 96. And then I went to, and I stopped racing in Spain for a few years. So I went back in Spain for the Spanish championship in 1997.

10:55And that was the first time that I felt the pressure of winning or the need of winning. Because, you know, everyone expected that if you won the world championship, how you will not win the Spanish championship the following year. And we were not that fast that we can. And, you know, I remember to be a little bit tense or nervous before that start, you know, because I had to win that day. that day eventually i did but uh probably my first memory of okay now i need to deliver you know everyone is expecting a result from me so would you explain a little bit then about how you managed that expectation and how you channeled it what your thoughts were how you approached it well it is it is something that is very individual for me is um when i have this pressure or when i I feel that I have to deliver high expectations.

11:47I try to calm myself. I try to, I normally have a lot of self-confidence. I think that's very important to have confidence on what you are doing and what you are capable of. That releases a little bit of pressure and you are able to over-deliver if you have that confidence on yourself. But then I'm a very technical person as well. So I want to know everything about what I'm doing. when I'm not in my environment, on my comfort place, I get more stressed for sure. So one way to be calm before a race or whatever is to know everything about the strategy, everything about the tyres, hearing from the engineers, from the strategies, two, three, four times, what is the plan, you know.

12:38So that's my approach to the race, to be confident on what we are doing. then maybe it doesn't work but it's not coming from myself or whatever that I'm in doubt but I think this is a very individual thing how we approach this these moments. But it sounds like your approach is to make sure that when the visor goes down and the lights go out you feel like you have done absolutely everything possible to give your best in that race. Yeah I think I think so That could be a good way to explain it. But probably not only motor racing. It's a way of living as well. So when I'm at home relaxing and I made a plan for the day or I go to the gym or there is a tennis match or whatever, I treat that tennis match like a Formula One Grand Prix.

13:25So I have to know everything about with who I will play. If he's too strong, maybe I skip that day the tennis because I hate losing. If it's too weak, maybe, you know, I maybe do extra sport before because that tennis match will not require too much of, you know, activity from myself. This kind of thing. So every day is very well organized on my head. So when do you begin planning then for, say you've got a rest day, when do you begin planning to maximize that rest day? Well, in advance, yes. I know and by now at 41 years old I know my my body I know my head I know everything that I need to to perform on my job so when it comes a long trip or a busy week of events or marketing or whatever I know that I will need extra days of rest so I plan everything well in advance I try to also travel as efficient as possible with the calendar that we have now.

14:33So you learn from your mistakes in the past and your previous years and experiences. Can we have a really honest conversation about self-doubt? Because I think when you're doing well in karting and you're winning a lot and you're moving through the ranks, your self-confidence grows. Suddenly you end up in Formula One where you are up against the very best people in the world. So you have to create techniques to deal with fear or self-doubt or seeing others that might have different or better skills than you what is your relationship like with self-doubt not not not much true yeah i mean i i know my limitations and but as i said before knowing my limitations i try to avoid those things so what what are they then like what would you say even at this age are your limitations i mean many many things i don't know how to cook i don't know how to play golf i don't know you know there are many things that i i see people around me that they do and i i try to avoid those things i skip those things because i know that i'm not good at and i don't want to compare myself against them because they are better one day if i train or if one day i do a cooking course or whatever then maybe i cook for someone else or something like that so I'm just doing let's say what I know that I can do and on that specific thing I don't have much self doubt or I don't have many problems it's true that you arrive to Formula 1 and you see when I go to Formula 1 Michael Sumacher was dominating the sport but I never thought that I was slower than him in a way maybe it was just a kamikaze approach to Formula 1 and to my start of my career But, you know, I never doubt of having the same car.

16:25Maybe I could challenge him one day. So that's how all my career went so far. There's an interesting observation here that you often look at who's the best in your field, whether it's a Michelin star chef, whether it's Michael Schumacher in Formula One. How does comparison work for you then? Even when I stopped Formula 1 in 2018, I remember I have to try different things in motorsport because my head was just telling me that I have to go a little bit out of my comfort zone in Formula 1. I've been for many years, I was a bit tired of traveling, tired of not having the possibility of win anymore.

17:08And the Indy 500, the 24-hour Le Mans, the Dakar Rally, there were other disciplines in motorsport that I thought they were appealing and in a way self-rewarding because I never considered myself a Formula 1 driver. I just considered myself a driver, you know, in any kind of motorsport. It's not just a specific Formula 1 driving style. So by attempting those, I felt that I had to learn a lot of things from the beginning. So I went to the Le Mans 24-hour, and I had very experienced teammates alongside me, and I have to learn a lot from them, but not publicly. I have to learn, you know, private between them and myself, because everyone expected that the Formula One driver will be very fast in any other car, but I was just not knowing all those techniques.

17:58same with Dakar Rally imagine from Formula 1 to Saudi with a Dakar Rally car it cannot be more opposite driving styles with the left foot in the brake all the time all these kind of things so I have to do a lot of tests I have to learn a lot but never doubting that I could be as good as the best one in each of the disciplines and that was just a test for me but you know a test that it was rewarding and I was happy So did you choose those for the experience or did you choose them because you felt you could be successful in them? Because I was thinking that I could succeed, yes, on those categories.

18:40And because I think in motorsport, there were no precedents of those kind of challenges. Maybe in the past, in the 60s or the 70s, there were drivers, Formula One drivers, they were driving different cars and attempting Le Mans and things like that. But now in the modern motorsport, you develop certain skills from a very young age to drive in that specific discipline. So if you are here in Europe and you are interested in Formula One, you start in go-karts and then Formula Four, Formula Three, Formula Two, Formula One eventually, which are all the same techniques and circuits and these kind of things.

19:20if you are an American boy, you know, you maybe develop your skills in oval racing, in dirt racing, and these kind of things. So it's very difficult at the age of 30 or 25 or 35 to move, you know, to a new discipline and be as quick as them because they're just born into that environment. So that was something that was appealing on my head. And maybe I didn't need that, but it was just a kind of let's do something that it could be a legacy also for the future. Because in a way, a driver that cannot succeed now and get to Formula One, they cannot be frustrated because they didn't make it. They are just phenomenal drivers that they will find their way in different disciplines and they still fulfill a little bit their dreams.

20:11So what was the biggest thing you learned about yourself then when you went into those other disciplines? That I was still able to learn, and Formula One didn't block my senses of learning things, and also the humble approach to many things, which in Formula One is very easy to lose as well, because we live in this bubble that everything is good for us, everyone is taking care of us, we travel in the last day, we do our job, we go back home, we have all the privileges. And then when you go in Dakar and you are two weeks in the middle of nothing on a tent, obviously you are not anymore in a five-star hotel or you don't have all the privilege and you still need to change your suspension, your tyres and cleaning your wind stream.

21:05I loved the images of you on your knees at two o 'clock in the morning banging away at the suspension rods and stuff. Why is being humble important? I think because my family, and coming back to my family, this is probably the first and only advice they gave me always, you know, to stay humble, to stay who we were always in our family and taking all the advantages that this life can bring us, you know, economically and the status and everything that is part of Formula One circus as well. But from time to time also I go back to Spain. I spend one week with my family and that week is kind of a reset of the last two weeks.

21:52That was an unreal life and this was a bubble. But now we go back to the base and we go to the supermarket, we see friends, we just chat, we play cards, whatever. this is the life that I will live you know for the next 40 or 50 years of my life and the life that is also that I want to live in the next 40 or 50 years. So would you describe to us then Fernando a little bit around that inner circle those people that do reset you what are the kind of characteristics and values that they hold there that seem to resonate with you? I think they have this humble approach of everything, yes, but also they have high discipline on everything they do because they had to in the past, you know, to get their jobs, to finish the universities, to be on time on an interview for a job, you know, they have to work hard for their things.

22:50So that discipline, that self-confidence as well, which I think they have in their things, you know, in their lives, they have this confidence of what they are doing. Yeah, I think the values that we all grew up in our families that sometimes in professional sport you can lose them because, as I said, you are just living a life on a speed that is unreal, you know, because we go from one place to the next. Within 24 hours, we do seven or eight different things on a single day. So at the end of the day, driving the car is the least time of the day. We are one hour and a half sitting in the car, but then we have 14 or 15 hours of different activities, acting, photo shooting, meeting prime ministers, you know, things that we are not able to deal sometimes.

23:48At the age we get to Formula One or to professional sports and these kind of things are just dragging you a lot of energy. And can you recount an incident that your family have ever had where they've had to give you feedback where they feel that maybe your head has been distracted by all these amazing experiences? I'm sure yes I don't remember maybe specifically one now but from time to time they are very honest with things that you may think or comments that you say or things that for them they are not that important even sometimes I remember they had to deal with a lot of media attention even at the front of the door of their house or paparazzis when we go summer together with my parents or whatever, these kind of things that I may get stressed as well because I don't want that they get disturbed by all these things.

24:49But, you know, from time to time they tell me, hey, this is not a problem, you know. They are taking a picture, you know. We are just sitting here having a good time. So if they are happy with that picture, you know, it's their life and it's their job. And maybe sometimes I don't see it that way, you know, because it's like they are stealing our privacy and our family time. But I understand what they're saying as well, because it's like, okay, this is life, and Fernando, calm down. You cannot change the world. You cannot make justice on everything that you see in our days. There are things that are like this, and you have to live happy with those.

25:28But is there a piece of wisdom or a piece of advice that your parents have given you that you will sometimes remind yourself of when you're in the middle of the whirlwind yeah sometimes i think they are because they are less let's say less competitive than than what i am they they are often you know happy with anything that happens on a race weekend or in my life or or whatever problems that i have they normally are a good balance for me because for them is oh I feel that is less important so when I get stressed about you know whatever a small thing about the race or about losing two points because we did this mistake or it happened that thing or that incident or whatever I see from them and I hear from them that this is this is very good still very good and I remember the first ever race in Formula One my debut in 2001 with Minardi that I called my father on Sunday morning of the race.

26:34And I said, OK, it's two hours to the race. So, yeah, let's see how it goes. We start with the soft ties and then we will stop in lap 15 for the refueling because back then it was the refueling in Formula One. And he said, OK, you know, I don't care. Whatever the strategies and the team thinks is the best, for sure is the best. try to enjoy because maybe it's your last race and said what do you mean and he said we never know you know this is your first race maybe you are not delivering or you are not quick enough or the team is not happy with you at the end of the race or whatever and then you will always be able to say that you race one formula one grand prix you know you are a grand prix uh driver and uh so that that the kind of approach that my family has that sometimes for me is very valuable and very helpful when I get the stress and for them everything is just a gift it's just an extra and this is very good.

27:32I think that's really interesting actually and probably still is useful now right even after all these years. Can I talk about your mindset of exploration because you talked about you know leaving Formula One to explore other areas I think also it allowed you probably to see Formula One through a completely different lens that you'd seen it through for the you know the previous 20 odd years so when you stepped away from formula one and suddenly overnight you're no longer fernando alonso formula one driver your former formula one driver and you no doubt watch the sport what did you learn that you simply couldn't see when you were in it i saw a lot of things uh first was the was the love that the people had towards my career and my job.

28:19Because when I stopped in 2018, I was tired of traveling and all the things around Formula One and, as I said, not being able to compete for high things. But I didn't have any perception or anything that maybe people thought about the sport or myself in general. But when I stopped, the only thing that I received every time that I was meeting people or any fan or people at the airport or in the hotels or whatever, it was, you need to come back. You need to come back. You know, this kind of thing. So the people, it was a surprise that they loved what we were doing, you know, because for me the last few years before I stopped, it was like, you know, we are nearly anonymous here.

29:02You know, this is not, no one is seeing us and the sport was not maybe great as it is now with all this drive to survive and Netflix and all these things. So I thought that it was much less interest, but I was surprised of how much love I received from people. And then, yeah, I saw Formula One, which is in motorsport, very different than other categories, much more selfish, much more glamorous in a way, but fake in another way. I think it was more pure motorsport, Le Mans or Indy or Dakar for sure. but yeah Formula One had this appeal you know the people want to to attempt to the races wanted to to watch on tv I was watching also on tv the Formula One races I appreciate a little bit more all the stuff that as a driver I didn't like before so the national anthem the parade lab having a little bit more access to the media and the cameras which when you are a driver you hate those moments but when I was just in my living room I was missing those moments and if one or two drivers were a little bit more smiley or a little bit more accessible I think it was appreciated from home so when I came back to the sport I think I took a step more relaxed into those things and I was taking care a little bit more of fans and TV and these kind of things because I understand the importance of it and that was able only because I was two years out of Formula One.

30:43I just want to give a quick shout out to my foundational daily nutrition supplement that I take every day to support my whole body health. As always really pleased that AG1 is partnering with the High Performance Podcast. Look for the last three or four weeks I've actually really stepped back from work. I've wound everything down. I wanted to spend time with the kids while they were on school holidays, a bit more time with my wife, having been really busy for the last few months. And what it's actually allowed me to do is really focus on making sure that I get into a routine. And the first thing I do in my daily routine is take AG1.

31:14It takes two seconds, a quick scoop of powder into a shaker, shake it, drink it, and straight away 75 high quality vitamins, probiotics, whole food sourced ingredients are straight into my system. And you know, when James clear came on high performance he spoke about ripple effect habits i feel that ag1 is a ripple effect habit for me because when i start the day taking ag1 i then think to myself look i feel good so therefore i go to the gym therefore i eat better therefore i sleep better i just think it starts the day right for me and if you're thinking about giving it a try and taking on board a simple effective investment for your daily health and you want to try ag1 i can offer you five free ag1 travel packs and a free one year supply of vitamin D with your first purchase go to drinkag1.com forward slash high performance that's drinkag1.com forward slash high performance it's been a game changer for me a game changer for my wife and I truly recommend it and what about for you personally then because we speak to loads of former sports people who say I didn't take one moment to enjoy in my career because I was too focused on winning.

32:22Same. Same. I regret that. I regret that. When I won the two championships back in Renault, my Ferrari time, I mean, it was good, but you are so focused on the next race, on the next weekend. You finish one race, you may win the race and you go to the airport and when you are in the plane, you are thinking about next weekend. So you land at home and you text your engineer, you know we need to test softer at the rear because you know the traction was very bad in this race you know at the end of the race these kind of things and I think with age and now at this point of my career it's like the podiums of this year it seems that when I re-watched the race on TV I seemed the happiest in the podium and I just I was third and two times second but it's because I'm able to enjoy more those kind of moments and And celebrating every weekend is part of my thing now.

33:21Did you think before you had that time out and before you had this new approach that you could either enjoy it or be successful? Not both. And now maybe you realize that actually you can. Yeah, yeah. I had that feeling. And that if I was enjoying too much, it was like I was not professional or I was not wanting that success. Yes, but you realize with time and with maturity that you can do both things and you can work hard, you can be very professional. But at the same time, you have to give back something to the people that work for you and the people that are supporting you. If it's your team or your marketing guys or your media or just the fans on the grandstands, they are there for you and you need to give something back.

34:11so can i ask you then around being in in the cockpit because speaking to some of your colleagues here they say that you have this remarkable ability to be able to spot details in the race not just related to your car but what rivals are doing or what else is going on there and i'm interested in understanding how do you develop that ability to see details do you see patterns or are you looking for certain tells? I think it links a little bit with the preparation and the way that I approach things and races, the level of detail that I need to be calm before the race, asking five times about the strategy and possible scenarios.

34:55What if I lose one place at the start? How this will transform our strategy? What if I gain one place at the start? we will stop one lap before, one lap later, which tyres will be good to have on the car in that scenario, in the other scenario. So because I have that quantity of information before the race, when I see that one car had a bad stop, I immediately go back to what we saw in the morning and that car having that bad stop and losing a little bit of time will maybe give us the opportunity to maybe do extra three laps with this tire because we are not under pressure or there are no threats from behind or whatever.

35:39So maybe I comment that on the radio and they are surprised, like how, you know, Fernando can, after a bad Ferrari P-stop, think that we can extend three laps our next stop. It's not that I realize there and I process all that information. It's that the information was inside already from Sunday morning when we review strategy possibilities. And because it's a communication between the team and me, we know that we are talking in the same page. So it's not that they didn't know that and they are surprised and my suggestion is going forward. Actually, it was their suggestion and it was their strategy and it was their information.

36:20I'm just remembering what we saw a few hours ago. And have you, at any time in 22 years of doing this job, ever become lazy or complacent and gone into a race without that level of detail? No, no. I could be a little bit lazy or not lack of motivation, but yeah, a little bit not fully, fully on it. Maybe during the week of the race, maybe the training or the preparation sometimes we receive a document on the week before the race about the circuit changes about all these things maybe i didn't read it in detail or something like that because i was not motivated to that weekend but always that change when i start the free practice on friday when i start the free practice on friday and you see yourself 12 you want to be 10th because you think that that's maybe possible if you are seventh okay you know the p5 did a mega lap today he maybe does don't repeat that lap tomorrow we can be top five so very easily you you get motivated during the weekend and so by sunday when i close the visor and and the race starts i've been always 100 ready can you just give us some a small bit of insight into what's going on in your mind, your final thoughts as you're closing the visor, as you've done the parade lap, as you're pulling up on the grid?

37:50What's the process at that point? It's just executing the race as a robot, basically. As a robot. No emotion? No emotion. And just there is only one way to see the checkered flag faster than any other possibility. Drive as efficient as possible, taking care of the tires, the battery. We have very complex hybrid engines on the cars and these kind of things. So when I closed the visor, I remember everything that we spoke on Sunday morning with the team, with each of the areas that are important in terms of performance, the engine, the tires, aerodynamics, strategy. and just I tried to deliver what they told me that is the most efficient way to see the checkered flag.

38:44So they did their part. They studied the strategy, the simulations, and all the tools we have run millions of possibilities and scenarios, and we chose one. We picked up one that will be the fastest for us. So I take that responsibility to deliver that job and as the last chain in the team. And I try to have no emotions. Said that, you know, when you are racing, there is this high adrenaline, there are overtakings, there are things that they don't go as planned. And in that moment, obviously, you are very emotional and you are at 180 heartbeat on your adrenaline. So still a human behind and very enthusiastic about what we are doing.

39:37So that's the beauty of the sport, that even if you want to do something with no emotion, everything comes alive in certain moments of the race. So what's interesting here then is how you've had to deal with the emotion that everyone has, which is the emotion of disappointment or feeling let down. Because what we've talked about here is an incredible attention to detail, a relentless discipline, a laser sharp focus for well over half your life for one goal, which is to win a race. Do you know your stats, race entries and race wins? What are they? Race wins 32. 32 wins. 360 Grand Prix. Okay. So you've lost 90 % of the Grand Prix that you've entered.

40:22Yes. You've moved to teams as they've designed cars that are disappointing in their performance. you've had moments throughout your entire career where you've been seconds away from something incredible then it hasn't happened so what advice would you give the people listening to this for how to how to deal with disappointment well failure is needed in life um and you have to to have down moments you have to learn from from many things and and sport in general as you said 90 % of the times you will not succeed. Or 99, you know, it's enough if you succeed one to be worth all the things that you've been trying for many, many years.

41:03And I think not winning and not delivering what you will love to and things like that are essential for any human being to really get better every time. So you need to have that level of confidence and that level of discipline, as we said before, to separate what is a disappointment to what it can be a lesson, you know, and get better for the next time. But would you tell us how you do that? I like the idea of you being a robot when you get in the car, but as a human being, when you step out of it and you go through those reflections, what are the kind of questions or processes that you go through that our listeners could use and adopt in their life It is extremely painful.

41:53It's real pain when you remove the helmet and you are not on the podium and you see others celebrating. And it is something that you cannot digest sometimes for a few hours until you get at night at home or you have to sleep. And the next morning you try to process everything that happened. if it was a mistake from yourself or if it was a strategy mistake or if it's just in our sport that the car is not fast enough how to make that car as fast as the competition and I think it's just you need to have again a plan and you have to have a program in your head that you are willing to respect and you have to start with your self-respect and then to your team and to your teammates and everyone that is working in the team, knowing that there is a plan to achieve certain goals.

42:55There is a plan to get better physically. There is a plan to get better on the straights. There is a plan of having less mechanical issues because we are getting stronger on the real ability side. We are hiring two new people. We are building these new facilities to have a stronger gearbox for the future. Once you get that on your head, I think it's very easy to keep going and to keep delivering your best. If you have any doubt or if you don't have confidence on your team or you lost the trust of your mechanic or if you have two bad pit stops and you never talk about that or you never put in plan an improvement to the system because definitely there are some weaknesses on the system.

43:44If you don't do that, for sure, it is very difficult to get the motivation or to deliver. You need to find and to search for excellence in everything you do. And once you have that, then you have to respect that plan and to achieve that. But what I found particularly interesting in your earlier answer was that you have a plan in place of what you want to execute. But you also seem to plan for what could go wrong. and how do you mitigate against it? What proportion of your planning then is based on executing successfully? And what proportion of it is planning for mistakes, for failures and errors?

44:26Yeah, 80 % is just about executing everything. 20 % of the time and in your head is just plan B, plan C. So you go to your plan initially, but yeah, because if something goes wrong, you need to have something and don't panic and you have a plan but that's not the optimal so you you don't want to to spend too much time in in the sub-optimal and as you reflect on your career what remains the biggest disappointment that you used as fuel at the time to push you forward i will probably yeah if you go back in time you know you change things winning a championship with Ferrari, that will be probably the first thing that I choose.

45:12If I can go back in time, 2010, 2012, we were within a few laps to winning a championship. And that probably could have changed a little bit the outcome of many things and the history behind a few things. And that was disappointing for sure to miss those. And then, as I said, you know, because this is difficult to change and you never know and you depend on many other people and other teams as well and performance of the cars and things. It's difficult to regret something because this is out of your hands. What I regret for sure and we touched before was not to enjoy more my time, my career. I know that I'm at the end of it and there is a new life in a few years' time for me without driving.

46:05and when I will look back to my career, I will see a lot of good things and good friendships and incredible experiences. But it's like I should have enjoyed more and if I had the opportunity to live my exact life once more, maybe I don't change anything on my teams or my choices or this Ferrari maybe title or whatever. I will just change to live a little bit more all those moments and try to have more memories from those moments. I won the championship in Brazil in 2005 and 2006, and I hardly remember anything from those afternoons and nights, which is sad. So these are the kind of things that I will change.

46:53Every time I hear or see an interview with you, people obsess about the third world title, right? but when we sit here and talk about this sort of new mentality you've got towards racing I wonder whether, of course you'd love to win a third world title but I wonder whether for you it's actually just about enjoying the process and maybe that makes you the best driver you've been in your entire career perhaps I don't know what you think Yeah, exactly like that I would love to win the championship once again but it's not the highest priority I think I'm enjoying the process of especially now with Heston Martin to become a contender for the future.

47:32I'm loving the time with the team, how we are all growing up in many different areas. I will try 99 % Dakar again. It's not that the third world title is less of a priority. It is a priority. But winning Dakar one day, it is a high priority for me as well. I will maybe have to attempt that race 8, 10 years or whatever until maybe one day I got lucky and I can fight for the win. But if I win in Formula One, in endurance racing and in Dakar, that will feel for me something special as a driver and as a person. So those kind of challenges are in my head at the moment. Amazing. Right. We've reached the point for our final few questions, our quickfire round.

48:20So the first one is the three non-negotiable behaviors that you and the people around you need to buy into. I would say discipline is one. Integrity. And confidence. I like the people that have this power of convincing you when they talk about something because they are so sure of what they are doing. And this is very powerful. if you could go back to one moment of your life what would it be and why i will go back to my school time because i don't know when you are young you are free you're you have endless possibility of you know doing whatever you want in the future and with your life and and this is kind of a feeling that you you miss later in your life you know so college i think it's a beautiful time.

49:18What is the hidden cost of your achievements of living the life that you live? Nothing really. I think you lose your privacy. This is a very important thing and you have to deal with and we are all different in terms of dealing with this thing. For me, it is not easy coming from where I come from and things, losing your privacy and not being anonymous anymore in any place in the world and constrain yourself to do certain things at certain times just to avoid stress. That's a high price to pay. What about growth and relationships, particularly away from Formula 1? You're 41 and you're not married, you have no children.

50:03Has that been a sacrifice you've had to make? Probably, yes. Yeah, I love kids and probably not being in the sport and not being a Formula 1 driver, I probably would have my own family by now, but that's something that you never know. So I don't think too much on this. What's one piece of advice you would give to a young Fernando starter now? To enjoy more, as we said. To take care more about, you know, your friends, family. It's not that I didn't take care, but, you know, it seems that you always want to spend more time with them. my grandparents that they are not with me anymore. These kind of things, you know, if you could have a conversation with yourself, you know, a few years ago, you will advise these kind of things.

50:55How happy are you? From what? One to ten? Yeah. Nine, 9.5. That's good. What's the most valuable piece of advice that you've ever received? On the personal life, my parents are always giving me you know the sense of being a good person humble trying to take care of yourself and the others I think this is something that I always appreciated and my parents are always giving me the best advices on the professional side of things I remember when I was in go-kart I was 13 or something like that and I finished second in the world championship the first year that I attempted and I was so happy it was my second international race in the podium in the world championship that was just incredible and I arrived to the team and it seemed that I was the only one happy so the head of mechanics back then in go-kart in my team came to me and put me in one of the sides of the tent and he said be happy, enjoy, but there is not much to celebrate second is the first losers in a sport, you win or you don't to finish second, seventh or eleventh is the same there is only one guy with a trophy and it's not us so I understand your emotion but this is nothing to celebrate, it was shocking because I was 13 and I thought that that was really rude and that was really bad for a kid.

52:44But then with time, I understood that that was a good advice in general, especially in the sports or when you are competing for something, you win or you don't. It's not that you train and you are here at the simulator or at the races or whatever to finish seventh. Seventh is the same as 17th. There is only one guy winning. And the final question, for the many people that have listened to this of all ages, all backgrounds, what would you like to leave ringing in their ears? Your one golden rule for them to find their own version of high performance? I think self-confidence, being prepared for everything you do in life.

53:28You know, you cannot underestimate even the easiest thing in life or something that you do every day in your job or whatever and you get used to, there is always something that will change one day. Technology will change, something will change, and you have to adapt to that and deliver that extra again because there is a new way of doing things. And, yeah, the world is changing. You have to adapt and you have to deliver something extra. So you cannot be happy with anything. you have to always search for something better it's really good it's fantastic do you enjoy having these sorts of conversations because most of the interviews you do in your career are simply about the racing i do like reflecting well listen thanks thank you very much you know i i sort of i think um this team have got you at the perfect time because i think fernando 15 years ago wouldn't have actually cared about a project would he he would have said i don't care i want to win today and i think you're now a man who sees the bigger picture sees the journey sees what you can do when you all pull together and i think it's the perfect team at the perfect time would you agree i do agree and yeah i think this in life it's not only in in sports in general i think when you are 20 you see life in a way and when you are 40 you see it in a completely different way unfortunately in life when you have the experience of 40 you will love to have 20 because you have your body ready for for the knowledge that you have at 40 but in motorsport I think at the age of 40 and the knowledge that you have at 40 is not a big disadvantage not to have the body of 20 because we're still driving cars and it's more a mental thing and create automatism on your hands steering wheel, all this kind of thing.

55:17So I think at the moment I feel good because my sport is good at the age of 40 and that knowledge and still delivering if I was a footballer or a tennis player or whatever, that will be more painful. Brilliant. Thank you so much.

55:37Damien. Jake. I obviously worked with Fernando for a few years in Formula One and in that time not only worked with him but studied him to learn about him. The man who's just sat in front of us is a different person to the guy that I used to work with without question. And it's a great reminder to people listening to this how change how a break how stepping back how seeing things through a new lens can do so much for us well his final answer is one golden rule captured that very point jake around you've got to adapt you've got to keep changing and keep embracing change not fearing it and that's a man that's obviously done that and had the humility that his parents instilled in him to not lose sight of that to be willing to keep looking at himself and reflecting i think there's so many fascinating things to take away from that.

56:27I mean, I love this conversation about when the visor goes down and we all have this idea that he's living in the moment, that he's studying the race, that it's a very kind of, like a very alive experience during a Grand Prix. But what he's just told us is that it's about the preparation. So that actually it's almost mathematical. You know, he describes himself as a robot during the race. And I think there's, again, a great lesson for people that if you get your preparation right, it allows you to do the most incredible things in the heat of the moment. But marry it up with what he said, that 20 % of that preparation is about, let's plan for plan B and plan C.

57:05So we almost work out, we know what we want to do, but how are we going to deal with and adapt to change as and when it happens? I think there's something valuable for all of us in life. And let me ask you a question, right? Having just had that conversation with him, who is like, let's reframe success, okay? Who is the more successful Fernando Alonso? So the guy that won two world titles, but it's just admitted to us, he has no memory or recollection of it. Or the guy who is now finishing second and third in the Grand Prix, he's on the podium, he knows the end of his career is not a million miles away, yet he's savouring and enjoying and living every moment.

57:40Which of those two Fernandos, the championship winner or the podium finisher is successful? Well, the short answer is both. But I think in terms of what he's talking about, of what he can take away and applied to the rest of his life. It's the second guy. But that answer he gave us about the most valuable piece of advice when he was 13 years of age and that bloke telling him that there's only one winner coming second, his first loser. I think that's still in him somewhere. But I think what's incredibly valuable for this is this is a guy that scaled both mountains. This isn't somebody that has spent his career coming second and trying to justify it.

58:18This is a man that has scaled that mountain and what's having us, there's a better way of doing it, which is what he's found now. Well, there we go. Fernando Alonso, as he has rarely seen and heard. It was a privilege. So there we go. Fernando Alonso on High Performance, one of the most requested high-performance guests and someone actually that we've been trying to bring you since we started this podcast over three years ago. Formula One is a sport driven by marginal gains, looking for that edge. And if you would like to find your edge, then we would like to help you do that. We have created the High Performance app.

58:54It has exclusive content. It has daily boosts. It just gets you closer to your own version of High Performance. We've created it for you, with you. We've had thousands of High Performance podcast listeners giving us regular feedback, telling us what they want to see. So if you want to get involved, then just click the link in the description to this podcast so that you can download the High Performance app and get closer to your own version of high performance. And finally, to everybody at Aston Martin, to Fernando Alonso for taking the time to have a long-form interview like that. Thank you so, so much for helping us get closer to our own version of high performance.

59:31It was fascinating. We feel privileged to have had that conversation. And for you listening, see you for more very soon.

59:46Thank you.