Finding reasons to live with Lindsey Burrow - Handpicked

0:09Watch it early on the High Performance App. I have called some of my very favourite podcast hosts and I've asked them to handpick some of their favourite episodes of their podcasts for us to put on the High Performance app. So I called Peter Attia, who hosts The Drive. He's been a guest on our podcast and he has handpicked his favourite episodes of his podcast, including A Conversation with Lance Armstrong. I also called Chris Williamson, who hosts Modern Wisdom, and he handpicked his favourite episodes for us, including a chat with David Goggins and Jordan Peterson. So the hand-picked podcast episodes from Peter Atiyah and Chris Williamson are live right now on the High Performance app.

0:53Amazing conversations from amazing people and it's their favourite episodes. Download the High Performance app for free right now to hear from them.

1:06Hiya, welcome along to a special episode of the High Performance podcast. Sometimes Damien and I like to just sit down, reflect on guests who've joined us over the past 300 plus episodes and just pick a few salient clips or some thoughts or some quotes from the episode and just talk about them. We call them handpicked. Welcome along. Damien's in the hot seat today. How are you? Yeah, good. Thanks, mate. So I like it when the email comes around from the team saying, we're going to record another handpicked episode. Which episode are you going to choose? And then I sort of flick through the podcast app on my phone and I'm just like wow like there's so many how do you work out which episode to go for I do something similar to you Jake I scroll through the the hundreds of episodes we've been lucky enough to do and I look for two things one those that evoke that kind of warm feeling of remembering when we met them and the experience of it and the emotions that that came up and then the second thing I look for is what's something that I took away like what's the one memory that i think oh i learned something from that i took it away and applied it and in relation to this episode i certainly remember this with real warmth and affection for how we got to get this interview in place it's one of the few episodes i've had where i've struggled to hold it together at times talking to this individual really left me sort of emotionally bereft from some of the situations that they're facing but the courage in which handling it had a real impact on me.

2:35Okay, which one did you go for? I chose Lindsay Burrow, the wife of Rob Burrow, the former Rugby League player that is now battling motor neurone disease. And it was at the time we decided we were going to do a series to celebrate the Rugby League World Cup. And we'd pick some real titans of the sport to come and sit down with us. but I wanted to choose somebody that reflected courage in a different way, somebody that was a high performer in a completely different field. So there was a very personal reason for it. My dad was very ill for a long time with dementia, and we cared for him at home, and I saw the care and the attention and the love that my mum had given to my dad during what ended up being nearly 10 years of caring for him before he passed away.

3:26and that to me was high performance but not in the traditional way that we sometimes were talking about it just the willingness to do the hard work in the shadows to care for somebody when you've had a future that's been cruelly robbed from you I felt Lindsay was the perfect embodiment of it so I'm good friends with Kevin Sinfield and Kevin had passed on Lindsay's message and having had him put a word in for us to get Lindsay to come on it so when I was texting Lindsay she was really reluctant to come and talk to us but again the real reason was because of her own humility she just didn't feel that what she was doing could be classed as high performance so in quite a few conversations with her I managed to persuade her to come on and what she gave us was gold dust in many ways I used a phrase with her that I think what her and Rob are doing are when they're facing death they're giving the rest of us a manifesto of how to live and that's what I think I wanted to just remind people if they want to go back in the archive, listen to this.

4:27I promise it's a real heartwarming and uplifting conversation. Lovely. So should we hear a clip? Yeah, I'd love to. So I'd like to start with the first one, which is Lindsay talking very much around when Rob has bad days, as he sometimes does, how they gain a sense of perspective and be able to get through these bad moments. So let's listen to Lindsay explain more to us. The only times that you see Rob having a bad day is when you have those difficult conversations with the consultants, with the hospital staff, or it's around a birthday or a celebration. And those are really tough times for Rob.

5:11And you can kind of see it in his eyes and it's kind of thinking, is this going to be my last time? I don't know how long um you know I've got and you said you know I'm I'm coming up to nearly 40 and he said to me the other day I want to you know to get you a ring you know something to remember him by because I don't know if I'm going to be here for your next birthday and that was really tough that was yeah really tough um so yeah um but he just just does it and I don't know how he does it but he does he's just he's just Rob consistent Rob you know going back to what my definition of high performance is it's that consistency and Rob is consistently happy is complete consistently you know a good dad is consistently a good husband a messy husband but good husband but yeah he's just he is consistent that's moving really moving isn't it and you know you heard the emotion in her voice there And it moves you, doesn't it, when you sit and hear that?

6:15Yeah. It was the conversation of we never know what's going to be the last time. You know, what's the last time you'll walk your kids to school? What's the last time you'll hold the hand? What's the last time you'll see somebody? We never know that. And while I accept that that can be a pretty bleak way of looking at life because you're constantly worried about what you will lose when those last times don't occur again, I also think what Lindsay was teaching us there through Rob's message is actually just be your best every time so that you leave nothing unsaid, you leave nothing unspoken, you leave no wishes unfulfilled.

6:54And I think that consistency of just showing up and being your best, regardless of the situation, is a message for any of us, whatever we do. And also, I think, allowing ourselves an opportunity to not always be perfect. Like, Lindsay will be the first to say there are days where she does struggle to cope with it. you know and i think we can't we also can't set unrealistic expectations that we're kind of um that we're just robots that can cope with the worst things that life can throw at us without being derailed ourselves and accepting that fallibility like one of the things that rob did introduce when he was first diagnosed with motor neurone disease was was a no tears policy that he said we don't want to cry and feel sorry for ourselves with this we're going to face it in the best way that we can do.

7:38And I think there's something about that, but there's also that acknowledgement that some days we will feel like crying. We will struggle. We will fail to put a smile on our face, but we can still just allow ourselves to sit in that moment for a while, but then remind ourselves of who we want to be. It was a real powerful manifesto for all of us here. Okay, should we hear another clip? Yeah, I'd like this one, where Lindsay speaks to us around

8:09perspective so let's talk about positivity then in the role of this because i think it it's an easy thing to say and you know like that moment when you when you get given effectively a death sentence and that beautiful phrase that rob said i've got too many reasons to live yes like I it chokes me up when I hear it so tell me about how people listening to this can nurture or develop a sense of positivity even if they're never going to face something as difficult as what you are yeah that there might be times in in their life you know be it through the job you know or stress of work but I think you've just got to kind of focus on you know you've got to have a plan you've got to kind of know where you're going and and just kind of staying focused and and saying and things sometimes things won't always go right um but it's about learning from that and it's about reflecting on that and and how can i and i think the biggest way that we learn is is through through error through through getting things wrong through through getting things wrong and making mistakes and learning from that um and and almost kind of using that negative experience to turn it into something positive and i think that's what we tried to do with Rob's yes it's the worst possible situation Rob has MND but how can we do that well Rob can leave a legacy you know that he can be proud of for his children and and for other people and other sufferers by raising that awareness by getting more government funding by you know raising helping other people with with the disease I think in many ways this conversation is more powerful because it's with Lindsay rather than with Rob you know how Rob was the superhero like Rob was an incredible rugby league player.

9:52Rob flew into tackles. Rob was a hero on the pitch for millions of people. Rob had a six-pack and huge muscles. You almost expect him to be able to deal with challenge because he spent his whole life dealing with challenge. Here is Lindsay. You know the old phrase, we don't know how strong we are until we've got no choice but to be strong. I think to hear her almost emerging from Rob's shadow as his wife and dealing with it in this way, it's so powerful, isn't it? Yeah, definitely. She's not somebody that's ever caught the limelight, you know, even when Rob was his most famous playing for Leeds Rhinos and for England and Great Britain.

10:29Lindsay was always happiest in the shadows, just providing a warm family environment for him to come back to. so the fact that she's been able to tap into this sense of purpose that we're all sense making creatures we all want to be able to understand the world and how it works and what our role is in it so this is how we often explain things like conspiracy theories that when we can't make sense of the world we make up stories and what they've done here is they've had to make up some sense from how do you discover at the age of 37 that you've been given as a doctor said to him at that time two years to live you've got a six-month-year-old boy and two other young daughters at primary school you can either allow yourself to wallow in the misery and say why me or what they've done is they've said well why not me what can we do with this this situation that we've faced and they've made sense of it by saying how do we create a world that's more empathetic and understanding for other sufferers of MND.

11:32How do we use our platform to create funding that means that other future sufferers don't need to go through the trials and tribulations that they've done? And I think there's something powerful there for anyone that is facing any kind of challenge. How do you make sense of it in an inspiring way, rather than try to make sense of it in a way that just fulfills a narrative of why me this is so unfair well said final clip well let's listen to it what you and rob are doing are giving us almost like a manifesto for life you know while you're facing a pretty dark uh situation what other lessons for life do you think you could share with us just i think enjoy life because nobody knows what's around the corner nobody knows what path what cards were going to be dealt in life um and I think for me personally what lessons I would I would say you know live in the here and now and if you're going to do something you know it's certainly changed my perspective on life you know having a messy house being late doesn't really matter at the end of the day does it you know at the end of the day if the kids are happy they're fed and and you know they've done what they need to do at the end of the day that that's a good day and I think having that gratitude of just being actually you know today wasn't a bad day after all you know because we've achieved this this and this is is just you know that kind of helps you then to stay positive thinking of thinking of the good things yes within that you know it might have been a struggle because it's taken me an hour to feed rob i've had to do this on the other but actually i'm grateful that we've got rob another day and if that means then doing those things and then that's what i'm going to do because i'm grateful that i've got you know another day with rob and it's another day he can see his children grow up it's another day he can live for another milestone um so i think just live life to the fullest because nobody knows what's around the corner and nobody knows what cards are going to be dealt so just you know live each day to its fullest really the truth is none of us will really know how hard it's been for lindsey once the door is closed on that house and she's looking after rob and looking after the children as well but i think the joy that we can take from this is her ability to simplify the messaging for people.

13:47I think so often it can be too confusing or too painful for people to listen to this kind of stuff, but I think it's actually wonderful that she's able to explain it in such simple terms that really, I think probably, can give us all a small indicator of what she's going through, therefore can hopefully force us almost to make sure that we do do the things that she's suggesting. yeah absolutely i think she's the perfect messenger for anybody that wants to understand high performance we say this so often it's not about being number one it's not about being a millionaire it's not about striving for the next great thing that you want to achieve sometimes high performance is what we say just doing the best you can where you are with what you've got and at this moment in lindsey and rob's life the idea of just being able to get through a day and have each other and appreciate each other, they're small things that in the scheme of it, people might look at and go, well, how does this fit?

14:46That's high performance for them. And I think the message I took away from it was twofold, what Lindsay said. First of all is just be where your feet are. Don't imagine the horrible scenarios that maybe could happen. Don't go back to yesterday and remember how brilliant it was then and what you feel you've been robbed by. Be where your feet are today and appreciate what you have in this moment. But the second one is we need to train our brain to find the bright spot, even in the darkest moments. Our brain will naturally go and seek out the worst case. If you look in the English language, the amount of negative words that we use to describe emotions, far, far out noise, the words we use for positive emotions, because we're wired to see the worst in every situation.

15:34that's part of our brain's very survival kit so we sometimes have to learn how to override that and find the bright spot find something we can be grateful and appreciative for and that's why I wanted to include this episode with Lindsay because I'm hugely grateful and hugely appreciative of her courage to come and sit down with us and share these lessons in what undoubtedly is a difficult situation for her Rob and their children well look thanks for sharing it and of course all of us on the team send our love to lindsay to rob the kids the wider family and if you would like to hear the full conversation with lindsay burrow then just search lindsay burrow on the high performance app thanks a lot damien thanks mate i've loved going back to that one