Frank Warren: How I lost it all and made it back (E232)

0:00Watch it early on the High Performance App. Available now Roman Kemp, the broadcaster, that opens up a powerful conversation on success and mental health. Have you downloaded the High Performance app yet? Over the last few months, thousands of you have been working with us to give us feedback on how we can equip you with the tools to go after high performance in your life. On the app, there's a search function to get some of our best guests. There's some billion exclusive access and there's exercises and masterclasses that enable you to go after high performance on your terms. So go to the App Store, find High Performance and download it now.

0:40You're listening to High Performance, the award-winning podcast that unlocks the minds of some of the most fascinating people on the planet. I'm Jake Humphrey and alongside Professor Damien Hughes, we learn from the stories, successes and struggles of our guests, allowing us all to explore, be challenged and to grow. Here's what's coming up today. I've had a lot of setbacks in my life but they're not setbacks they're just tests I don't live in the past I live for today and that's all I care about what I'm doing today because if I'm doing good today hopefully tomorrow will be even better 10 days before the completion I got shot I know who it was I know by the mannerisms and whatever I never see the face I never lied in court told the truth it is what it is and I've got to tell you the only time I talk about it There's moments like this.

1:32Mike Tyson. I just said to him, what are you telling me for? It's your jewellery. I don't wear it. It's your stuff. That's it. And they're supposed to deal with it. And next minute, it was all off all meetings. Without me knowing about it, it didn't... I mean, he just threw a punch and that was it. So today, we welcome the indomitable Frank Warren to High Performance, a man who is well-known as a boxing promoter, but his story, His incredible story is less well known. From breaking down the cartels that controlled the sport, to being shot and having to deal with the aftermath of that, from nailing huge deals and global fights, to losing millions of pounds and seeing his dreams collapse around him.

2:13The story of how Frank Warren has got to where he is today is remarkable. And many of you know that Damien is a professor. He's an expert in high-performing team cultures. what's far less known is that Damien grew up in the boxing gyms of Manchester his dad is one of the most respected boxing trainers this country's ever produced and I know that this conversation was a real honor for Damien and on more than one occasion his dad Brian gets a mention which is always nice I think the thing that stood out for me is that at 71 years old Frank Warren is bringing seven decades of knowledge experience and wisdom to this conversation and that shines through and And if this is the last time that you're listening to this podcast in 2023, huge thanks for your support.

2:55We are releasing an episode on Christmas Day. We are releasing an episode on the 29th. We are also releasing an amazing conversation on the 1st of January to start your new year. So you can stick with High Performance right throughout the festive season. Wherever you are listening in the world, I hope you have a great time with your friends and family. But right now, let's get to it and welcome Frank Warren to High Performance.

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5:05Frank, welcome to the show. Thank you. It's a pleasure being here, Jake. What is high performance to you? High performance is doing your best at all times, rising to the occasion, ensuring that you're delivering in the particular field that you're working in. When the going does get tough, when there's a bit of a business, maybe a mini crisis or something's going wrong, I really do then get into it even more. And I feel like I come alive and I enjoy that. in boxing obviously which is the sport I'm involved with now I'm very good I think at guiding guys careers picking the right moments the knockout punch in boxing is the best timed punch and the best matches are the best timed matches you know for guys coming up you're seeing if the other one's just slipping a bit is he ready to be taken and it's finding those moments in time and and that that is when you that is when you've got to be at your highest and you've got to show the high performance and show that you know what you're doing for them.

6:12If you do not listen in boxing, you're going nowhere. And that was the same for me, by the way, when I started out there. You've got to listen. You've got to watch. You don't know it all. Everybody thinks they know it all like this, and it's not. It's a, I mean, look at your dad. How long did he spend training fighters? How many years? 50 years, yeah. Yeah, and it's the knowledge that you pick up. And that is, and smart people pick it up, that knowledge. and pass it on. And in this business, I mean, boxing is like a magnet for idiots sometimes. You get people who can get, I mean, you couldn't go and manage a football club.

6:51You couldn't go and, you know, run a cricket team or, you know, various or a Formula One team without any experience. In boxing, they suddenly got a manager on the scene who knows nothing about boxing, but all he's telling them is, you should be getting this amount of money. but knows nothing about boxing. And it ruins so many careers. So many kids get ruined. And it's always, the cause is always money. It's always money. So how do you deal with that when you see that someone has toxic people around them that are no good? I find it difficult with families. Not all families are like it. Some families and their sons and their daughters nowadays, but their sons are, you know, they have great relationships.

7:37There are others where they, well, publicized fallouts over money, where money's gone missing or something's gone wrong. And that's the hardest thing because they've been, you know, for some fighters, when that's happened, there's been a rift cause by somebody in the family against the team that's been working with them. They then step in and take over as being the manager when they've got no experience of being manager. and then do, you know, tell them all whatever. Then you hear down the road, oh, well, you know, a couple of millions gone missing or three millions gone missing. And it happens on time and time again.

8:15And then the whole family gets ruined because of this money, because somebody stole their money off of their brother or their son. And that's a dreadful position. It's a real do that to your own family. I don't think there's anything worse than that. so what advice would you give to a young fighter that comes to you about spotting who they let into that inner circle and who they need to maybe keep outside of it i think it's very difficult to you know i always just say to them look if you're with us this is how it is this is how we're going to do it you're going to get x amount of fights for the first year we'll sit down the second year we'll work out what the money's going to be for the second year and how many fights and that go and obviously at the start of each year that'll happen until they get into the big time then it's a fight-by-fight situation.

9:03It is difficult because they just pick up friends on the way. They pick up people on the way. It happens in football. You think about Anelka when he was at Arsenal and his brother and all the nonsense that went down. It just happens. And people put their trust and it will continue to happen. You can only try and explain it away. But I think now, nowadays, I sort of nap it from the beginning. and I, you know, when you sit down and you walk what you get up, you say, this is going to be hard work at the end. You can see it. Do you then walk away if it's going to be? I have walked away. Yeah, I have.

9:39I have walked away from it. And because life's too short. I've got, you know, I'm not sure I'll be working with somebody who wants to work with me rather than wants to think they're going to use me a bit and to, you know, to do whatever they feel they're going to do because I know it won't work out for them. So what are the red flags then that you spot because you know for everyone life's a negotiation they come from the background want to push themselves up front straight away they want to get in the limelight and all that and it's not about them it's about the fighter it's about the boxer so how do you avoid not being cynical then because you've got to see the next young talent that comes to you but you've been burned you've seen these kind of dysfunctional behaviors how do you avoid cynicism i think what you've got to look at, you look at odds.

10:25You know, how many good, look, life every, every day is not going to be a great day, is it? If it was, then you wouldn't know what a great day is because that would be the norm. You have your ups and downs and so I look at it and think to myself, the percentages are you're going to get a couple of wrong-uns in there and that's how it is. And it might be also a situation where it don't work with them, work with me for them, like it doesn't gel for them and I get that and that's happened as well in the past but, you know, invariably, I think the reputation I've built, our business has built over the years with fighters is that we do deliver and that we do look after guys coming through and building them.

11:05We're very good at that. Can we touch on that then about fighters coming to you and saying, I'm going somewhere else? I remember Gordon Ramsay on this podcast, we spoke about his golden rule for life. He said, take it professionally, not personally. How do you not take it personally when a fighter comes to you and says, I'm offering. In the early days, I used to take it very personally because you put your heart and soul into it and you work hard. It's not just that. I mean, how many fighters stay with the same trainer? They don't. Very few of them stay with the same trainer their whole career.

11:38So, it is what it is. Now, how do I take it now? That's it. You know, on to my next job. You know, I'm not going to get bogged down with that. That's yesterday. I don't dwell in the past. I don't live in the past I live for today and that's all I care about what I'm doing today because if I'm doing good today hopefully tomorrow will be even better how do you do that though? because I've got good good mindset that's my mindset it always has been I mean I'm I don't I've had a lot of setbacks in my life but they're not setbacks they're just tests and get over them and get on with it and do it let's talk about some of them when you say I've had a lot of setbacks in my life where does your brain take you to?

12:23Various things. I mean, from a business perspective, I mean, I built London Arena in Docklands. That was, in those days, was the biggest indoor arena in London. It was a 12 ,500-seat venue, multi-purpose venue. The WWE wrestling tournament there. I had Sinatra there. I had Pavarotti there. I had, you know, all the bands at the time. everybody played there. Can I just ask you then, before we go on to what happened next, what does it feel like when a lad from an estate in Islington has built an arenary in East London and he's hanging out with Frank Sinatra to open this thing? I mean, surely that is a moment where...

13:06It's surreal. It's surreal. It is. It's very, it is a surreal situation. I was promoting him and we were going for, you know, going out to dinner and so forth with him. Did you hang out with him? Yeah, yeah. it was good fun I was only a kid well I was a kid compared with him but he was he was probably one of the most interesting people I've ever met we went to this restaurant called Mimo's it was in Victoria really good Italian restaurant we went there after the show he still had his tux on he's got sat down a hot towel and we went in there obviously it was late because after it was after he'd finished his finished one of his shows at the arena we're all eating you know sitting down eating and no one else in the restaurant it more or less closed by then and Tuck's bottle of Jack Daniels and he drank he'd done the bottle of Jack Daniels and I remember sitting there his manager was Elliot Weissman he was sitting there and he kept coming no more drink no more he won't be able to do tomorrow but he was just he was just brilliant and the stories were just fabulous Did you learn lots from him?

14:15Yeah I did see a little bit to the other side of him. He got a little bit temperamental. Not with me, with Sing and the thing, but he was great. And he loved the boxing as well, didn't he? He loved it. He actually was the photographer at ringside at Madison Square Gardens for Ali and Frazier. For Time Magazine, I think he did it for Time Magazine. Yeah, yeah. Amazing. So coming back to the London Arena, again, before we talk about what happened there, I'm so interested in how a guy in his early 30s, A, has the idea of building an arena in East London. B, makes it happen. And C, manages to deal with the kind of natural fear that you'd have when you're doing something that big, that brave.

14:58The fights that went on Wembley were put on by what we call the cartel. Mickey Duff. Mickey Duff, Jarvis Astaire. Jarvis Astaire actually was the chairman of Wembley. Royal Albert Hall was Mike Barrett, was also part of the cartel. He had the exclusives there. So you couldn't book these places you couldn't even book York Hall when I first started out in boxing you're a boxing promoter unable to get your fighters to the best venues because it's sewn up correct it took me ages to get there but I got there at the end so at the end what we did or what I did was to this venue came about and I got involved in building it and we're building it in Docklands and the absolute the press was dire who's going to go there it's over in the docks it's dead down there it's you know it's a bad part of london and there was the infrastructure was we was knackered with that i mean absolutely knackered you put your own money into this have you yeah yeah and guaranteed money put a lot of money and i bought harvey and i bought i wound up only in 70 of it i bought harvey out of it as well well so what kind of numbers are we i know it's a long time ago now what sort of numbers i was uh when it went when it went uh i was up i I think I was in for about 16, 17 mil, which was a lot of money back in late days.

16:16And you lost that? Yeah, I paid it back and that was it and got on with it and that was it. So why did it go? Terrible rise in the interest rate. Interest rate went to 16 % and we were paying like 3, 4 % over. So you're paying a lot of money over. We had a group of banks that were backing it, syndicate of banks. I'd done a deal to sell 49 % of the, the venue to the banks and 10 days before the completion date, I got shot. So the banks all sudded off and you can understand that and it all just fell apart. And then from there on, I was just hanging on and hanging on, trying to, you know, get it back on track again.

16:58Now, you're the first of our guests that have ever told us about being shot, but you've also just described it in an incredibly sanguine way. Would you tell us more about that? It was November 89, and I was in the arena. My offices were in the arena, and I had a show, a small show at Barkingside, and Colleen McMillan was fighting on there. Sweet pea. We had a bad little fight, Colleen. I wasn't going. Now, then we finished early. I said, come on, let's go and go to the fights. So we got in the car, went to the fights. As we pulled up, I got out of the car, and I heard a bang, and I looked around.

17:34I thought, I thought it was a car backfiring. and I looked and then there was a bloke who was like probably about distance the old engineer is over there what are you about 15, 20 foot away whether it is that distance and he's holding a gun and shaking I remember his hand was shaking like this then it clicked and I thought it was a joke to start with then I heard a bang and I knew then it was it was real I remember all this thing plain as anything I remember as he grabbed him he went what the fuck are you doing and grabbed him and then he's got him on the floor I've suddenly got I've got this pain here and I'm holding him aside and all the blood's coming out and I could then I could feel my lungs starting to I was like gurgling and obviously it's where the blood had gone through my lungs or my lung and it was bubbling up so you know I felt myself getting you know I went down on one knee take a count of ten I went down on one knee and then my dad my uncle my brother they came running out of the venue and they said get the dots because at the show the boxing board had tried a couple of dots so the dots had come out and he said to me he said have you got a handkerchief and I'm like oh there's blood everywhere he said have you got a handkerchief I went yeah he went hold it on on the thing so I'm holding this thing on there and the ambulance is run strike at this particular time.

19:05So they bundled me into the back of this old police van, old paddy wagon. So next minute, that's doing a three-point turn. It's banging up the curb. I'm like, oh, I could feel every bump. And then off we went, and they took me to the appropriately named Shooters Hill Hospital, and that's where I wound up. Police went to my house, told my wife. They said they'd doubt 50-50 whether I would get through the night. So obviously you can imagine the concern for her. She was pregnant at the time with our youngest, Henry. And anyway, I woke up. I don't know if it was the day or a couple of days later. And I'm on the sort of thing of all the bits and pieces in me, tubes in me and my lungs and my drains.

19:51And that was it. And then they kept the newspapers away. And I see the newspapers. And the newspapers were talking about gangland killings and all the shootings, which was all bullshit. I sued all of them by the way but you don't get the apologies they were trying to make out that you were involved no they said the gun was used in a gangland killing so a police source said which was just rubbish it was just all this nonsense going on in some of the newspapers and I sued a few of the newspapers for what? for libel because it was untrue and what the but the banks who I'm working with all this stuff's going on you can imagine it just and it just killed the deal and I knew that that was dead and it was getting, and they were trying to, you know, my family's trying to stop me hearing what's going on outside, but I was, you know, I've got a nurse, a couple of nurses all in there getting me the papers and everything.

20:46And I discharged myself. I had to discharge myself. So I come out of the hospital. I've done about four stone in weight in a very short space of time and I was out, I think I was about nine, 10 days in hospital, came out and then I went back to work the following week. because it was all, you know, I had to show that, you know, that there was, the ship wasn't sinking. But take us into that hospital ward though, Frank, because was there not a moment where the picking the bullet out of you, you reflecting on what by any stretch is a horrible and traumatic event. Did you never just think of throwing the towel in yourself then?

21:23No, my big concern was, my main concern was my family, obviously. and everything was, you know, I knew the repercussions of everything I did was tied up into this business and it wasn't just about the arena but then, after the shooting, getting out there, everything was survival mode and then trying to get the confidence of the banks back and it was tough and I was, I wasn't strong, didn't feel strong but I had to do it and I should have bitten, literally bitten the bullet then and sort of looked at where we were with it and said, right, let's stop this now but I did and I kept fighting and fighting all the way through and it was just it was just tough and in the end we just uh we just had to say right that's enough's enough and uh knocked it on the head so when you say you weren't strong you weren't strong physically or mentally at that physically what about mentally I didn't have time to think about that I was like so all I was concerned with was making sure the kids were all right because the kids had kids at school I went sure my wife's okay making sure that you know everybody's okay and then I had a bit of a thing with my my uncle my late uncle and my dad and that you know especially my uncle came from was a brit from a pretty tough background and he wanted some rich i was like he wanted to go and sort it out and i stopped that from happening so did you know who'd done this no i didn't i didn't know i didn't know at the time but i did get to know and i stopped all that from happening and why did they do it a complete lunatic i mean why would anybody do that i mean you know So it wasn't a business thing, it wasn't a personal thing really?

22:57Well, it was personal, obviously, but I mean, you know, but you say it's a bit, what business thing do you do that you go and shoot somebody? I mean, we're not in a drug dealing business or gangster business, nothing like that at all. It's just an idiot, a complete idiot. Did he get arrested? There was a trial for it and that was it. And I couldn't say who it was because he had a mask on.

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25:13well i'm interested in in you taking the higher ground because growing up on the estate in is yeah that's not like you don't turn the other cheek so what is it you've learned in the period of your life up until this moment to decide to do that i think what my what the thing for me was at the time was i knew it'd be the ruination for me it's easy to do that that'd been easy for to you know i could yeah you know what or pate but i didn't want it and it was like planning to what everybody sort of would have thought was going to happen. And I didn't want that. I didn't want that. I wanted my kids to have a better life.

25:57I wanted to, at that time, I believed that we could still, you know, turn this business, you know, I mean, I didn't know the banks were immediately out of it then. I believed that we could, you know, that we could move forward. And that for me is more important. I'm here. I'm doing it. No one's, you know, you haven't got the better of me in this. You know, I'm still doing what I'm doing. You know, some idiot tried to do this. All you are is what you are, is an idiot. What have you gained from it? Nothing. Who are you? Nothing. What are you known for? Maybe that's it, rather than being known for something that you may have been proud of what you've done in your life.

26:43That's it. but honestly it wasn't even worth it I mean I wouldn't advocate my kids do that what I did but that's how I was brought up that's the background I come from you know so I didn't I can't say I don't know any different because I'm intelligent enough to know different but that wasn't in me to do something like I say and I couldn't have to be quite hand on my heart I could not have said it was him I know who it was I know by the mannerisms and whatever I never see the face I never lied in court told the truth despite the facts in court or the stuff they were throwing at me you'd have thought I was the one who shot someone it is what it is and I've got to tell you the only time I talk about is like moments like this and it's never discussed it doesn't even it's not even in my mind it's not something I even sit there and think if I really did sit and think about I probably would go and do something about it but I don't and it's not worth it because it's pure negativity What good is going to come out of it, any of thinking about that?

27:47Nothing. I think about the good things. I think about, I've got to see my son, who my wife was carrying, I've got to see him born. And that for me is all I needed to want. So let's talk about what keeps you going then, because you're suddenly at this point where you've had to fight to get involved in the boxing game. You've then had to deal with the cartels so that you can actually promote fights. you've built and lost the London arena you've been shot in the process I mean this would be enough for most people yet you're sitting in front of us today in your 70s arguably about to put on one of the biggest fights of your entire promotion career when Fury takes on Yousik we've then got another huge fight happening in Saudi just a few weeks after that it certainly doesn't feel like you've slowed down so what's this all about?

28:33why do you keep going? because I enjoy it I enjoy it you know I'm 71 years young that's how I am I don't want to be putting my feet up there's times sometimes when you think oh I'll suck this or whatever but if I do that I would absolutely go downhill fast I wonder whether having rivals also keeps your energy up you know like Matchroom who've been around a long time now created a great business done some brilliant work over the years and you know how hard it is so you know how well they've done I wonder whether actually as much as there's a rivalry both you and the Hearns would sit there and go yeah we were inspired by them to push on and be better and you redrove each other forward I know it sounds I don't even think about them that doesn't and I can understand why you say that it's a bit like Rangers Celtic or Arsenal I would look at a big rival of mine in the podcast world or the TV world and be like I'm inspired by them that's the level that's the standard I'm going to be even better I'll get that Ali Frazier Ali and Frazier you don't have that no I don't because I only focus on what we're doing.

29:41It doesn't matter what they're doing. I've got no control over what they're doing. I can only control what I'm doing. I can only make happen what I'm involved with. And if I'm successful, you know, my sons at Queensbury are successful in what we're doing, then we're doing well. And we are it. We are at this moment. And everything goes in cycles. You know, you have your ups and downs. And at the moment, we're flying. You know, we're gangbusters. we're doing these big shows we're the ones who are pulling them together we I mean heavyweight division I think we're in a very short space of time from when Tyson came back and I said that we will wind up with the strongest heavyweight situation and with the best heavyweight which is Tyson and bringing all these other guys through we brought some really good youngsters through we've got guys in really good positions and that's what we you know where we're at we've got this young kid Moses Ituama who I'm telling you is going to be remember that name Moses Itoama I'm telling you he's going to be the next big thing in heavyweight division and and it's just it's great you know you go into the office I'll go in my office there's people who've been working with me for you know 28, 29 years some of them have been there a lot of young kids there now a lot of youngsters and it's fun I mean and you know the thing about what I'm around most of the time is young people because they're young fighters.

31:11They're, you know, invariably most of them are young and you get a buzz out of that. See, but that intrigues me, Frank, because there's a lot of people that get to 71 and almost be fearful of young people with young ideas and fresh concepts. How do you stay open to the new ideas of a younger generation? I think at the end, I mean, for me, boxing's about one thing. It's about a good fight. You can dress it all up. When I got involved in boxing, the cartel, as we call them, the main event used to be a fanfare. You might get a few soldiers in there with the bugles or the trumpets, playing the fanfare, or they might put a scratchy old 78 record on, playing a fanfare.

31:57Nothing else. They used to glove up in the ring, you remember? Yeah, yeah. Before the fight, they'd be glove up in the ring. There was no live boxing on television. They'd show it the following night on sports night, and the highlights would go on grandstand on the Saturday. So that's the environment I got into. I remember the first show I did, Ray Clark was the, he was the general secretary of the boxing board of control. We're bringing the fighters into music. No one, you know, no one had done that. So all this music going, blaring, and he's sitting there like that and they've all got their hands.

32:27They turn this music down and almost, you know, but for then it was quite innovative. There was no advertising on the canvas, There's nothing on them anywhere. We brought the advertising in, ring card, girls, all that, just to glitch it up and whatever. But you know, at the end of the day, what mattered was what happened when that first bell went, because that's what it's all about. So what do you think then of this new YouTube generation as fighters? Because if you're talking about a show, that's a hell of a show. It's a hell of a show. If you're talking about the quality of the fighting, you can question it.

32:59That's a different thing. Look, for me, I started off in unlicensed boxing, as they called it. I promoted Lenny McLean who was my second cousin so I promoted him so what they're doing now is no different than what I did back then but the guys I was doing it with were coming from a fighting background you know a YouTuber doing it and I'm not being disrespectful they've built a business up through being a you know being a YouTuber and they've got hundreds of thousands or millions of followers and two of them think they can go and make some money out fighting each other, providing they're medically supervised, providing that it's properly refereed and everything's there, good luck to them, God bless them.

33:46I have no problem with that. But what I do have a problem is when people talk about it like it is what I would call, I suppose, legitimate boxing or licensed boxing. Because a lot of these guys wouldn't get a license for the last five minutes. Come on. But good, yeah, they get money, as I say, as long as they don't get hurt. Good luck to them. But, you know, we got involved in one. I've got Tommy Fury, Tyson's brother, for Jake Paul. Jake Paul actually now has a license and he was licensed when the fight was made. And Tommy, I think that was his 8th or 9th fight. But the level the pair of them are at is down here.

34:27You know, they win a British title at this stage of the game. Whether they go on to do that, I don't know. but at the time that fight was made they would struggle and what would they get for a fight eight round money which is not a lot of money they went and got millions apiece so how can you say don't do it so what would they normally earn if they were just a couple of regular fighters at a low level eight rounder you might lucky to get eight grand ten grand a fight and they would have made from this fight four or five million millions each so how'd you nut that Mike Tyson I've got to ask you because I remember that you'd arranged for him to come and train at my dad's gym when he first fought Julius Francis so he came up to Manchester and there was all the hullabaloo around him when he first came in fighting in England and then he came back later on didn't he to fight Lou Savarese in Glasgow your confrontation that most men wouldn't survive and I'm interested if you'd tell us about it it's well documented he went into of graft jewellers and spent sort of four or five million on jewellery in there.

35:34Million? Million. And basically thought or told them that I was going to settle the bill. You know, why would I do that? That's number one. And I can imagine the misses. Why would I do that? And he went back and I actually called Jay Larkin, who's at Showtime, Ken Hurstman, who's the lawyer at Showtime. I said, listen, he's spending a fortune. And I went, don't, they said, don't worry. I told his manager, who was Shelley Finkel at the time, they said to him, you know, they'll just have to take it off his purse. But the bill never got settled. So he was coming back to fight and that got pushed back a couple of times.

36:11And Graf want to get paid. Obviously, they're coming on to me. And I just said to him, it will get, you know, I'm just passing on the information, you know, what they've been telling me. And cut a long story short, he didn't get settled. The fight kept getting pushed back, the second fight. Then he was coming in. We sold out Scotland. We was doing a show in Scotland, sold it out, and then he pulled out of it. And then about eight days later, they said, he's coming back, we can do it. I said, well, look, people cancelled their tickets, hotels and all this and that. It was pretty much a disaster.

36:45So we redid whatever the deal was going to be. He came in, and the first time he came in, they wouldn't let him through the airport. Sorry, they wouldn't let us pick him up from the VIP or whatever area you want to call it. They wanted him to go through the airport. And it was mayhem. I mean, it was unbelievable. The press, people, it was just like, it was great publicity, but it was what it was. Second time, they told him he's got to go out the back way now. And he was really pissed and he wasn't the same person. He was taking antidepressants. He was Loflow or whatever he was on at the time, which you know everybody was aware of what he was telling I'm not telling any secrets out of school and he but he was he was totally different and he went into this jeweler's shop went back in there and there was a girl working there they fired her or she'd left and he basically had bought all this jewelry because he met her how it turned out he met her in the in the hotel he was staying at the Grove and we set a gym up there and he met her in there she works in there and he's giving it Jack the Lad going in and buying all this stuff give her the commission and anyway that was the basics of it all and anyway I got a call and I went up to see him he's pissed about so I said what about anyway so I went up there and he was really pissed off that this girl had got fired and or well she'd left or whatever happened and about this jury and whatever and I just said to him you don't what are you telling me for it's your jewellery I don't wear it it's your stuff that's it and they're supposed to deal with it and next minute we it was all off all meetings without me knowing about it it didn't I mean he just threw a punch and that was it you didn't see the punch coming well I didn't expect it at all it's not like you know he's Mike Tyson he's a professional fighter he's a bit of a handful to say the least so that was that we had a little bit of a fracas and then at the end the fight went ahead they wanted me Ken Hirschman and wanted me to call the police, which I didn't do.

38:56And that was it. And I said, he can fight. They flew everybody in from the state because he would have been in trouble. This is what's so stupid. I'd done him a favor. I'd done him a huge favor. He was on parole. If I'd have said something or done something, he would have wound up back in prison finishing his sentence, rightly or wrongly. That's what would have happened. And I didn't do that. I didn't pay him. I told him I'm finding him so he can fight and he's not getting paid that's it you find him his purse yeah and that's it did you tell him that while you were in the room I told no not there I mean it was after this was after the event and that was that and then I haven't seen him until I was out in Saudi which was about was that about a month ago or so when we was out there that's the first time I seen him and we were sitting in in His Excellency Turkey's house and he was I'm here and he's right and then he come over that's the first time I've seen him but not and he came over and he went and he said brother getting hold of me and I'm like and then he started kissing me and I thought what the fuck did you get flashbacks ready to approach him no that I weren't going to stand for that because that's what I stood for the first time but it is what it is and it's like the nonsense at the end of the day it's just garbage or fun right we've reached the point where we do some quick fire questions so the first one is what are your three non-negotiable behaviours for living a high performance life what are your rules what are the behaviours that you expect I don't stand for bad manners yep I don't stand for bullying and being professional at all time what advice would you give a teenage friend just starting out follow your dream keep working hard the harder you work the luckier you'll get just work hard be dedicated you can't cut corners you've got to really really focus on the prize biggest strength greatest weakness biggest strength my biggest strength is probably one mindedness and your greatest weakness one mindedness works both ways if you could go back to one moment of your life what would it be and why I think when I I look back I mean I've had I've been blessed I mean I've been I mean I got invited to Nelson Mandela's house after after Nigel Benn got beaten by Sugar Boy Malinga I thought it was a joke and they phoned me next time in his house sitting with the most impressive person I've ever met my whole life sitting there this man who's a boxing nut love these boxing couple of quick boxing specific ones Fury or Yousik Fury all day long why too big too fast too strong greatest fighter of all time greatest fighter I've seen in the flesh would be

42:02Sugar Ray Leonard he's the best I've seen in the flesh in film on film probably Ray Robinson and who would win in a fight between a prime Tyson Fury and a prime Mike Tyson it's a tough fight but he wouldn't have it all his own ways. I mean, I know what his strengths are, Mike Tyson. Mike Tyson would not be able to bully. He was a bully. He'd bully guys before the fight. He'd bully them at the weigh-in. And the fights he lost were against guys he couldn't bully, like Evander Holyfield. Couldn't bully him. Evander Holyfield was a warrior. And Tyson, he wouldn't be able to bully and I'd fancy Tyson to beat him.

42:40Tyson Fury to beat Mike Tyson. Yep. Final question. Your one golden rule that you'd like to leave people thinking about for living a high-performance life. If you're going to live a high-performance life, you need high-performance fuel. So don't drink crepe wine. Best one yet. Good. Thank you so much, Frank. Really appreciate your time. Very best of luck with everything.

43:05Damien. Jake. What a life. Yeah. Brilliant. I mean, the ultimate sort of hero's journey, isn't it? The guy that's come from humble origins, he's sort of gone off on his own adventures, he's learnt lessons from incredible people along the way and now he's bringing them back here to share with us what a real privilege it was. He's actually interestingly humble as well, which you wouldn't expect, because I really wanted him to go deep on the things that he's done, how he's done it, you know, real deep on the specifics. But I guess it's either his love of discovering young talent and helping them to grow, or whether it's just his love of elite sports people.

43:43But he defends all the time to the boxers and the stories about other people and other people's achievements. Like, hold on, mate, you were in your early 30s and you built the bloody London Arena, 12 ,000 seats. Like, tell us how you did that. It's so normal for him now. He's going, well, you know, I had a chat with someone and we decided to go ahead and do it. Well, not many people in life do that sort of stuff and then lose it all and keep going. Like, I think the story is incredible. I just wanted more about exactly how he's done it, you know? Yeah, I do. But I think contrary to the popular impression of a promoter of being loud and brash and constantly telling you how amazing things are, I think he gave us a really intriguing look into the power of humility, the power of patience, the power of investing time and waiting for the right moment to come.

44:31And I think that's applicable for all of us. There's no shortcuts to wherever we want to get to. And Frank was great at illustrating that. And I think also he's a clear man of principle as well. and I do believe that his entire business life is based on the power of his principles. I mean, you spoke to him afterwards, you know, a few sort of stories revolving your dad and your dad's career in boxing and you could tell the way that he was reacting when we were talking about those stories. Like, you could see he's a man with a real clear moral compass in certain areas. Yeah, very much. So my dad and Frank had worked together for over 40 years when my dad was working as a boxing coach where he was bringing lots of young talent to Frank and they worked in partnership together for a long time.

45:14And again, that was entirely consistent with the man that I knew when I was young, of somebody that was inherently decent, somebody that was transparent in terms of what he was trying to do, but somebody that had that strong moral compass of a difference between right and wrong in his world. Like even the example of not going and pursuing the man that shot him, not looking to give in to those temptations of going just to get revenge but taking the higher ground and thinking about the impact that I'd have on his own children is a good example of somebody that has got that strong moral compass like you say.

45:54Enjoyed that chat, thanks mate. Yeah, I think there's a value sometimes in talking to people that are maybe towards the latter end of their career that have lived a life and that are willing to share it and Frank was a really good example of how generous that generation can be. Thank you so much for listening to this episode. Don't forget one of the biggest and most valuable things that you can do for us is hit subscribe. Whether it's here where you get your podcasts, whether it's on YouTube, it makes a massive difference to us. Thanks once again for your support throughout the year. Don't forget to hear even more from High Performance.

46:28You can download the High Performance app and have High Performance in your hand every single day. Thanks for continuing to listen, to learn and to spread. At Capella University, learning online doesn't mean learning alone. You'll get support from people who care about your success, like your enrollment specialist who gets to know you and the goals you'd like to achieve. You'll also get a designated academic coach who's with you throughout your entire program. Plus, career coaches are available to help you navigate your professional goals. A different future is closer than you think with Capella University.

47:06Learn more at capella.edu. Dr. India Woods here. As a veterinarian, I demand a lot of my scrubs on the job. That's why I show up in figs. Figs are made for the sometimes crazy situations I find myself in. It doesn't matter if I have to squat, sit, bend, or even chase after one of my patients. Figs moves with me and keeps me comfortable in the highest pressure situations. Figs gives me one less thing to worry about. Get 15 % off your first order by visiting wearfigs.com and use code FIGSRX at checkout. That's wearfigs.com, code FIGSRX. The messages that you're hearing from these conversations remain humble, curious, and empathetic.

47:47And we'll see you very soon.

48:05you