George Groves: Down but not out, how I became a world champion at the fourth attempt

0:01Hi there, you're listening to High Performance, the award winning podcast that unlocks the minds of some of the most fascinating people on the planet. I'm Jake Humphrey and alongside Professor Damien Hughes we learn from the stories, successes and struggles of our guests, allowing us all to explore, to be challenged and to grow. After hundreds of conversations we've discovered that every guest has managed to unlock their potential within. This podcast seeks to find out how they did it. Here's what's coming up. my story essentially is winning a world title at the fourth attempt which I didn't think that was going to be my story when I sat out at seven years of age dreaming of becoming a world champion but now I can own it be proud of it that it took unwavering self-belief and a lot of resilience big right hand comes swimming over in the third round I hear the crack I know this sound because I broke my jaw 10 years prior as an amateur boxing in Poland.

1:01So I was like, oh, this is my physio. Comes over and he just puts his hand on my shoulder and he says, Eddie's collapsed in the changing room. So I know instantly what that means. Like he's in a bad way. And yeah, my world kind of changed instantly there and then.

1:30So it's a very warm welcome to George Groves on the High Performance Podcast. George is a former professional boxer, competed for 10 years. He held a WBA super middleweight title. He had a brilliant career. In March 2018, he was ranked as the world's best active super middleweight boxer by Ring Magazine. And he spoke to us about struggles in his career. He spoke to us about the great moments, the hard moments, the big lessons that he learned and why he at times had to do things differently to other people. I'd love to know what you think of this episode. Don't forget you can reach out to us on Instagram, on Twitter.

2:07You can also watch these conversations on YouTube as well as listen to them right here wherever you get your podcasts from. So listen, sit back, enjoy. Time to get you closer to your own version of high performance as we speak to former boxer George Groves.

2:30well George welcome to High Performance thanks for having me on I'm really excited yeah I'm a fan of the show so thanks for having me on let's start then where you know we always do what is your version of High Performance yeah I knew that question was coming so I was trying to think of the best answer performance I like the word performance because for me boxing was a performance you know in that regard so slightly different different take on just you know performing a task but putting on a performance and then a high performance would be in the fight in the moment at the highest level thinking and feeling and slipping and sliding and reacting to the punches that are coming at you and then obviously throwing your punches back and then you dissect it back to how have you got to that point what have you been doing in the build-up what's your training been like always trying to operate with a high performance so I think maybe that's the best way maybe that's one way to say it for me and then when you finish boxing like I have now to go back and re-evaluate and you try and what was success and I've heard many of your other guests talk about it like is it happiness is it is it being happy um is it being present in the moment and yeah there's been times in my career where I felt like I was I was happy I wasn't happy I was present and I wasn't present so now just yeah I suppose a little bit more maybe a little bit more wisdom a little bit more experience and definitely well definitely happiness which is good are you happy?

3:59I think so yeah I think so you know I think there's like a yin yang in this world so you can't be happy without being sad you know you can't really enjoy something if you haven't had to work hard for it I appreciate all the suffering that I've had obviously there's the physical grueling you know training that everyone every fighter able to talk about and has done and then obviously I've had huge you know disappointments um failures it's felt like at times my story essentially is winning a world title at the fourth attempt which wasn't something that I thought was gonna I didn't think that was gonna be my story when I sat out at seven years of age dreaming of becoming a world champion but now I can I can definitely own it be proud of it that it took unwavering self-belief and a lot of resilience to finally get across that line in the end and get my my hand raised and become a world champion which was as I say was was was always the dream so if you can go to that moment and then work backwards from it the moment you did get your hand raised as world champion how did that feel that achievement of a lifetime's ambition yeah a lifetime's yeah ambition dream uh fulfilled it was it was relief really to be honest I I think at that point it was it was relief um I'd love for it to have well I don't know I'm happy I'm obviously happy with what it was and it it's authentic because that's that's what it was but yeah the idea of like jumping up and down celebrating I watched the ladies win win win the trophy in the football this summer and I was like they don't stop running up and down they're popping champagne cocks as you know I was like when I won when I want my belt all I wanted to do was just go and curl up in the corner and uh and rest because it just it felt like the weight of the world had been lifted from my shoulders I could finally breathe it was you know it really was like a last chance saloon situation it felt like you know I'd always had the drive and you know dedication to been fully committed to you know to boxing the task at hand and at this point it was to become a world champion and yeah I mean I don't know what would have happened if it if it had gone wrong for me that night if it had gone one pair shape so I feel like relief was probably the overwhelming feeling and then is that not disappointing now when you look back on that as that seven-year-old lad that set out on that journey does it not feel a bit disappointing that you got to the top of that mountain and that was the overriding emotion I don't think so as I say I think you know uh don't get me wrong like there's still an awful lot of happiness you know awful lot of happiness just smiled ear to ear with a broken jaw you know for for for weeks and if well I'm still smiling now you know it still will be the best moment in boxing for me so I just you know I had to suffer for it I felt like I had to suffer for it and even in in the actual physical fight as I say Chudinov former world champion Russian has come over people have heard of him but I'm still the favorite you know I've got home advantage it's sort of last chance saloon big right hand comes swimming over in the third round I hear it land I hear the crack I know this sound because I I broke my jaw 10 years prior as an amateur boxing in Poland so I was like oh this is uh this is a bit funky I can't shut my mouth because you know my teeth are in the way um my mouth starts filling up with blood it's like well not so much case or ass or all but it was like who cares like it doesn't matter just get out and do your job man it's you sure every punch after that was searingly painful no yeah but you i mean you do you do necessarily get a bit a bit numb to it but you don't want to be giving away any any free shots because yeah are you done what the i'm not sure what the effects would be like is your punch resistance the same if your jaw's broken?

7:55Or is it just, probably not, probably not. I mean, it was broken on one side so it wasn't like hanging and flapping. I mean, that would have been a real nightmare. But I sat down in the corner and obviously my training time was Shane McGuigan and he reached in to take the gum shield out and I just sort of shake my head as if, just leave it in. So he was unaware and obviously I didn't want to stress him out at that point. I didn't want to go, no, leave it. I think he broke my jaw so I thought, I'll tell him after. That was a conscious decision you went back to that karner and thought, I'm not going to stress my karner out.

8:28I'm just going to bite down and get on with it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, that's kind of, that was definitely me at that point and maybe that will always be me now. But I always like to shoulder the responsibility of most things and definitely my career. So large spells in my career, I was literally self-managed and had to, you know, think on my feet in the moment, live in the moment. And yeah, at that point, I just decided there's absolutely zero benefit from me giving him this instruction, Shane, because then will Shane act differently? So I've had a broken jaw before. I don't know if he's ever had a fighter in the corner with a broken jaw.

9:07So I was like, well, yeah, here we go. You know, just keep going. Next round, I get a cut over the eye, blood streaming into the eye. You know, you're told as an early pro, like, never wipe away the blood. You're giving the referee an excuse that your vision is obscured and there's a reason to stop the fight. But at this point, it is like now, whenever I've got a broken jaw, I can't see him. It's in my interest to actually just dab at the eye a little bit. And yeah, I mean, tuning off is as tough as they come. The only comfort for me at this point is I was landing on him, like I was landing the shots.

9:38So I could hit him. I just couldn't really put a dent in him at this point. But I'm thinking, as I say, it's now, whenever you've worked your entire life to get to this point, they'll have to carry me out. I will succeed. I will get there and then yeah sixth round a couple of rounds later right hand sharp right hand comes in momentarily stunned Chudinov and just like capitalise on this now so yeah just like raining in punches on him I think it's 35 unanswered punches later referee finally calls halted about that's it man I'm there 20 it feels well yeah at that point over 20 years in the making dreaming and since watching Rocky on TV at seven years of age, thinking about becoming a world champion, done, dusted.

10:30See, it's fascinating to get an insight into such, like a cerebral boxer to be able to talk to us around that self-talk that's going on in that moment. But you just used the phrase there that sort of made me just sit up and pay attention when you said, they're going to have to carry me out of here. It's all or nothing now that you're going in. because you're a fighter that actually had come up against somebody that had to be carried out, that had that same mentality of it's all or nothing. And now given how thoughtful you are at this moment of, I'm not going to tell him a corner that I broke my jaw, of this guy's only been down once before and you remembering all of that, where did that memory come into?

11:08It was there. It was in the moment. I mean, the fight you're referring to is when I box Eddie Goodnick from Germany and it was the fight before this fight. I was already, I beat Martin Murray in a chief support for an anti-Joshua fight, the order of 50-50, and that made me a mandatory challenger for the WBA world title. So my next fight technically could be a world title. Took a little while for the WBA to sort of get that fight over the line. So we had a warm-up bout, a keep busy fight, and Eddie comes over and we have to fight. and yeah it goes a full 12 rounds so it was like yeah I landed a lot of shots on him and the referee probably could have pulled it a bit earlier but still he was never quite in enough trouble for the referee to definitely step in the corner could have easily pulled him out at many stages of the fight because he was never in the fight never going to win the fight no one would have been complaining if the fight got pulled early he didn't and then I get the win great let's go back to the changing room let's talk about when we're going to get a world title shot, preparing for the post-fight press conference.

12:16And my physio, who's Kevin Didlow, takes care of all my medical sort of stuff, he comes over and he just puts his hand on my shoulder and he says, Eddie's collapsed in the changing room. So I know instantly what that means. Like he's in a bad way. When fighters collapse after a fight, they've usually had some sort of bleed on the brain, swelling on the brain, something usually pretty serious which is what had happened to Eddie um they rushed him off the hospital and yeah my um yeah my world kind of changed instantly there and then because um I'd recently become I'd become a father like I'd become a dad four or five months before then and I knew Eddie had three kids and um it was like oh it's not why I got into boxing it's not I didn't getting into boxing to hurt people.

13:10And I'm sure as a kid, you're very much like, well, I'll go out on my shield as such. But when you grow up in the real world and you've got family, you've got responsibilities, boxing ain't really worth that anymore. So, yeah, I mean, that did, that did, that did, that plagued me. I knew then, like, my time in boxing is numbered, you know. Which reminds me of that brilliant book, Dog Rounds, by Elliot Wurzel, I think it is, that spoke about fighters that have been in a ring with somebody that's ended up being either impaired or killed. So he interviews people like Barry McGuigan, that unfortunately one of his opponents died, and, you know, Emile Griffiths, the famous middleweight boxer that was in a similar situation.

13:58And I think what they always say is the person that's responsible, if you like, that administers the punishment, it takes more from them as well than what it might appear to as much as the victim. It robs something of the perpetrator. What would you say it did take from you, that incident? It takes that killer instinct. It takes that spite, that venom, that ruthlessness really. Don't get me wrong, in flash moments you'll have it, but before then, me at 22, I had it all the time. all the time but then becoming a dad knocked me for six you know it softened me I wasn't expecting that soon after that Eddie and then soon after that winning a world title so achieving the dream but yeah I mean like anything I think if you if you hurt someone and yeah more so than anything it robbed me of a bit of killer instinct which is hard it was just really hard for me to say and come to terms with because it's almost what I used to pride myself on boxing's often a sport of delusion isn't it you say I'm in the best shape I've ever been or I'm hitting harder than anyone or I'm tough were you admitting this that I've lost that killer instinct or were you denying it to yourself as well as to others when you sign up for these final three fights I think I was processing it to be honest I mean I think I was processing it it wasn't as sort of black and white as you know a switch had been switched off but because there could be loads of reasons why you feel different and obviously the desire to be a champion desire to be the best desire to beat someone else is there so if there's something that's slightly off key it was really hard to put my finger on what it was and yeah maybe even so it was something that I didn't really want to own up to I think I think even now I'll probably leave leave here tonight and regret saying it well thank you for sharing it So why are you joking?

16:03It's interesting though, isn't it? Because as hard as it is for your boxing, the killer instinct, you also have to get in a ring and be punched by somebody else. So where did it leave you regarding self-doubt and your future? And how hard, because we have a lot of people that listen to this podcast that talk to us about the fact that the biggest issue in their lives is self-doubt, that voice telling them they're not able to do it anymore. They shouldn't be doing it. They should move on and do other things. How did you fight that voice the sort of I guess guidance that our listeners could benefit from I I never like I always had unwavering like self-confidence self self-belief uh always and it it it never left me so where does that come from then and how can we build that into our own lives if it's something that we struggle with yeah I think to believe that you that you're going to be the very best and you obviously got prepare for that as best you can and then it when I go back through what the experiences that I did how I used to think and approach stuff.

17:03It's no different from what, you know, experts will tell you is I'd get myself in boxing wise. I get myself in the best possible shape I could be in, believing that I'm working harder than anyone else. Why was that important? That was what I thought was the right thing to do for success. So I started, I mean, I started kickboxing when I was seven and I started boxing when I was 10. There was no ceiling put on my ambition. I thought I was going to be the greatest of all time. I was like already mapping, as a kid, mapping out my future. Be like, right, I'm going to win the ABAs at least once. Mike Tyson was world champion at 20.

17:37I think I could probably get there. You know what I'm saying? I mean, you grow up, obviously, and then your expectations get adjusted a little bit and you forgive yourself for not becoming a world champion at 20 and stuff like that. But it was always there. I mean, always there. So tell us about that, because some people might look at that through cynical eyes and go delusional but actually there's something real beneficial in having that dream and the aspiration so what would you would you tell us about the benefits of encouraging others to dream and have those kind of high aspirations well you can't really get there without without the you know people talk about oh visualization i'm like what does that mean but actually when i think about it that was all i did forever as a kid you'd be visualizing you go for a run you're visualizing and for me because where I would stumble across it because I would never really visualize the uh the bout or anything like that uh I'd visualize the ring walk the fun bit I'd visualize the wind lifting the belt so without that it's gonna be very difficult to sort of get wherever you really want to want to be I want to ask you another question then because I grew up in boxing and I know there's that old saying isn't there when you walk forward everyone else walks backwards and that's the most terrifying moment at some stage you've got to walk forward into that ring with just you and the other guy there and that to me is often a competition of who can like who can manage their own nervous system enough to stay calm and implement the plan that you've done in training what did you learn about being able to manage your emotions to be able to go out there and execute the dreams that you've been nurturing i used to love it like i i loved it so where did the nerves show up then there's never really never really i mean never on fight night i was always willing to put the work in wherever the work was required so i always felt over qualified over prepared that it's up to me to just go and perform i lost a few uh i lost as an amateur, never boxed anyone who's better than me, never boxed anyone who could beat me on my day.

19:55So it was either I didn't show up or there was something else involved. But I don't, I don't, I don't carry that approach to everything in life, guys. It's interesting that, isn't it? Because that's where the learning comes, right? You now know in your early thirties, failure is the growth. That's where I learned. It's interesting that at the time you, you were like, well, something else must've happened. That's why I lost that fight. I think that's a really interesting and intriguing approach at that time and whether actually it would have been better for you to have been able to go, right, I messed up here.

20:26This is how I can improve. Yeah. So, I mean, the third time I lose a world title shot is I'm out in Vegas. I've had the two big fights with Frotch. I've done Wembley Stadium. So the first fight I lose controversially. I still won't let it go. So controversially, they demand a rematch. You I'm leaving no stone unturned. I'm not taking anything for granted. I'm in there with Kyle Frosch, season fighter, former world champion, no, current world champion, four times world champion. I've got to go out there and do the job. Switch off for a split second. Boom. That's boxing. You pay the ultimate price.

21:03New low. Knocked out in front of 80 ,000 people. And that was the first time where I'm thinking, right, what is my life instead of boxing? Rather than, what's my life after boxing? This is so hard though, because when you're an elite performer like you were, believing you're good enough is the most important thing, right? It's the belief that gets you there in the end. So as soon as you don't have that belief that, you know, you're George Groves, of course you're going to be world champion, even if you're not, you can't lose that, can you? No, it's desire, really. It's desire. Again, not self-belief.

21:37I lost a badou Jack and I watched the fight back and I'm like, I made a mistake there. I should have put a bit more into it. I should have made some changes beforehand, you know, but whatever. At that point, you're making excuses. So you just question your desire. For me, desire was can I leave the sport without becoming a world champion? Absolutely not. So you go again. But identifying that for me, there were things that weren't right at that point. So I need to make some changes. What were they? So I changed trainer. I was working with a guy called Paddy Fitzpatrick who was an amateur coach from Swindon and me and Paddy go on a run together we had the first frotch fight where I come really close second frotch fight where I don't the fight's even but I get knocked out and then three more fights later I fight Badu Jack and yeah I drop a split decision I was like well Paddy's not quite right for me um see can i jump in there because i because i want to give a trainer's perspective on this because i because i saw lots of fighters sort of abandon the coach after a loss and it used to frustrate me because to me i'm not i'm interested in your answer to this rather than trying to presuppose it it was always an excuse you know to me and i always saw fighters and it would often be rather than do that self-reflection of what did i not do it was all you let me down you gave me the wrong tactics you didn't train me properly and it used to frustrate me because i'd see the job of your entourage is to tell you you're great and if you haven't been great it's easier to blame somebody else than it is to hold the mirror up and say maybe you need to look at yourself george so i'm just interested in how you would how you'd respond to that so i didn't i didn't have a huge entourage at the time so um paddy i had a new team i brought paddy in uh i brought barry o 'connell who's an ex-Royal Marine.

23:37And I was already working with Dan Lawrence, who's a S &C coach. And that was pretty much the team, really. So I'd gone from being under the haymaker umbrella, pretty much kept away from the business side of stuff by Adam. Frustratedly, I wanted to be more involved. I wanted to be more aware. Adam had left. I'm now self-managed and I'm managed in a world title pay-per-view fight. So everything comes at me. From there, I go into Wembley Stadium, post-war attendance record for boxing in the UK. It's mega. Now I'm trying to juggle sponsorship deals, this deal, that deal, the fight, liaised, sort out sanctioning bodies, working with just every problem you could ever imagine.

24:20It landed on my lap. But you don't want to blame the coach, but you have to be aware when stuff isn't going right. And sometimes I've got seven key traits of a champion. And the last one, number seven, is be willing to start over. It's be willing to go back to the drawing board and start again. And that can be the hardest one of all because you feel like you're giving up on the dream or you're giving up on the work that you've already put in. But for me right there and then, I needed a change and the ruthlessness is still there. it's like sure you want loyalty in boxing but at the same time it can't be at the expense of the end goal

25:13so why not surround yourself with more people who can do all the things that you don't actually need to be doing like fighting fires dealing with ticket sales solving problems here there and everywhere so you can just focus on fighting because you know you've lost three world title fights on the bounce one of the things that could have been changed instead of the personnel around you was just get more people yeah so so up until this point i had i didn't really have any trust in anyone so i didn't i didn't trust anyone uh from from boxing in general boxing boxing boxing it's hard to trust a lot of people in boxing who have your best interests at heart and fortunately for me by the end of my career I did accumulate a lot of people there who put me first which is it's the ultimate dream for a fighter and I think anyone else who wants to work in boxing and isn't a fighter should have that mentality but I did after that I put myself on the market I reached out to Shane McGuigan who was doing great things.

26:20He had Carl Frampton in the gym, who was a world champion at the time. I remember walking in the gym, talking to Shane and just being like, right, here we go. This is it. Talking about people who might be there to help me. Barry McGuigan's in the corner. Barry McGuigan, every story I had to tell about adversity, he's already faced it. You know, he's already had it. He's already, he's been involved in mega fights and big fights. He's come way with big losses. He's had a heartache and sadness throughout his boxing career. So he was there and he's only there to help. So then being back in the gym, a bit more camaraderie and we didn't rush back.

26:53You know, it wasn't like, right, next fight's got to be for a world title, a world title eliminator. I had a fight January at the Copper Box. Not a huge arena. No one wants to fight in January. But sure, man, I'll go for it. I'll headline. I'll get back in the picture. Spended in a good win with Shane. Chief support for the next two anti-Joshua fights. Stepped up in opposition against um david brofeed stepped up again in opposition again against martin murray now i'm managing for world title again but this time i've got a team who take a lot of the responsibility for me which is which was vital because talking about the ticket sales and all of that that period that you're one of the first fighters that i can think of that almost seem to understand that you're doing pay-per-view so you're going to have to drive viewers to the fight so you've got to manufacture a beef with your opponent or you've got to engage in mind games that are going to get the public interested in a fight they might not have heard of without it.

27:55I'm interested in how much thought and preparation you put into these kind of narratives, if you want to call it that, that would build a fight and get people interested. And what did that give you? But equally, what did it take away from you? Yeah, no, I mean, for a real fight, So the first time this kind of really came around for me, I've boxed James Zagel, who was the Olympic champion. He won the Olympics in Beijing 2008. We're clubmates. We're both from the same amateur club. Boxers, amateurs, became fierce rivals since then. Both turned professional around the same time, but obviously he's turning professional with an Olympic gold medal.

28:31He's the golden boy of this generation. Skip forward a couple of years. I've got the Commonwealth title. He's got the British title and we're going to collide. our paths are going to cross because neither of us are going to show weakness in going a different route I get made mandatory for the British Championship so a fight date is set and me and James' build up just took off we end up headlining this show but I would always be prepared Damien before any encounter with James Aguil and I knew James obviously we'd been from the same club hadn't spoken a few years but I knew his nature I knew what he was like.

29:12And I would make, I would usually make a sweeping statement type sort of assumption of someone's character and then decide, is there any insecurities in that character? And then just have a little dig and a poke and see where we go with it. Now that stuff always plays through to being good watching, good listening, drives the pay-per-view machine or the boxing machine. So they want to get you together as many times as they possibly can. And I would always try and differentiate myself when I could to stand out. But there and then it's about getting a reaction from your opponent. So this is when the fight starts then?

29:52For me, the fight starts. The first press conference, the fight started. So I'd be like, what's he going to wear? Right, he's going to show up in his gym kit because that's what he likes to wear. I was like, right, what am I going to wear? I'm going to wear a suit with a Larry tie. Why are you going to do that? I'm going to look stark contrast to him. The tie is a bit of a peacock effect. I'm going to stand out. I've got to have to do something to make sure that people are not just listening to what he says. And I've got to be ready with what I want to say. I want it to be clear, concise. You're going to get asked a bunch of the same questions from journalists, but I'm going to have to answer these questions a different way each and every time.

30:32Otherwise, it's boring for me and they're going to write the same stuff. any question he's got I'm going to I'm going to have an answer for I'm going to be I might even be obnoxious I might intercut him and break into him if he stutters on something I'll answer it for him so now they're under pressure to say something decent because if they don't then I'm ready to snipe in at them so that and yeah I mean I carried that sort of through my career by the time you did the Rubik's Cube so yeah Cole Frotch we'd already had the first fight I'd already I mean now he's admitted you've got into his head haven't he because by the second fight he's admitting that you'd needled him enough that he had to go and seek support yeah so this is I think this is before he's admitted that so the first press conference to announce the rematch were at Wembley Stadium and yeah Carl can I think sometimes it's nerves but he can ramble so and he's had a long illustrious career so at times he will go back to the very start and I thought if he goes right back to the very start I'm going to solve a Rubik's Cube sitting next to him at a press conference so I sat there and I pretended that I just got it out of the packet and learned it but I didn't and solved it I learned the algorithms a week before I was like I got it down to about two and a half minutes I thought I've got two and a half minutes here the pressure's on I can't not finish it there's some serious practice gone on for this moment I always wanted to be a bit different I always wanted So that's maybe it's part of being a high performer, high performance.

32:08I'd be like, right, I need to differentiate myself from everyone else. So it's boxing. It's an individual sport. You don't carry fans like you do in football. You know, it's not, it's you. They're back an individual. So yeah, you know, as I say, I'd make myself as available as possible. I'd do as much media as I could. and if there was anything alternative or funny or something, we'd have a go. See, but what I love about your approaches, having sort of been along to these weigh-ins or the press conferences with boxers, a lot of them, it's about ramping up the testosterone. Do you know what I mean?

32:47Like pretending to put the head in or being threatening. And yours reminded me of that famous one when Nassim Hamed first boxed Steve Robinson down in Cardiff and he went over and shook his hand and said, thanks for giving me the opportunity to fight for your world title. And then when he replied, he said, I'm confident I'm going to beat you. So what I'll do is I'll give you the whole of my purse if you beat me. Will you give me all of your purse if I beat you? And Stevie Robinson hesitated and Hamad went, I've got you. The fact that you couldn't answer me instantly was clever that he got in his head by being cerebral and a bit smart rather than just being abusive or, you know, like there's nothing particularly clever about that.

33:28whereas what you were doing was well thought out and precise. Yeah, I always wanted to keep it professional. Nothing personal, really. You know, nothing that's actually really personal, you know. Why was that important? Because we are professionals. Would you mind sharing with us your seven traits of a champion? Yeah, if I should get them off now. Come on, son. So, number one is to keep going. Why was that important? It's the easiest one to start with. And sometimes even if it's just an idea in your brain, like stick with it, keep going, right? Just keep going to start with. Usually right at the start is the easiest way to just sort of quit and give up.

34:17But you don't. Number two would be stay focused. How did you do it? I suppose whatever your goal is or your dream or your ambition is to sort of figure it out and just make sure that you don't let other niggling doubts creep in. So staying focused, focused on that goal and make sure that you get the work done. You know, I relate a lot of stuff to boxing so make sure that, you know, keep the diet in check so the weight don't balloon right up in case I get a call when there's a fight on the horizon. You stay in the gym, you stay active so the body's always ticking over. It might be to take care of the brand because you've got to do some media or some alternative media while you're not in the gym or you're recovering from an injury or rehab or something like that.

35:01So staying focused on the task at hand is important. Number three, to be willing to make sacrifices. So you've got to make sacrifices. Four, to not waste time, which is hard. So when you say to not waste time, do you mean to just be permanently focused on the boxing? Everything is boxing? For me, yeah. I mean I had a career you know box is a short career it could be over at any point so don't waste any time seize the day take the opportunities if the opportunity is there take it don't waste time next one will be live with clear intentions number six is to take responsibility which was hard talk about myself going climbing 10 feet from Everest and walking around telling everyone I'm world champion you're not take responsibility losing a split decision out there with battery jack am I blaming the trainer no but I'm taking responsibility that I might need something else I might need I might need a new set up a new gym a new coach or something else so to own own up to your shortcomings when they come take responsibility and the last one number seven is be willing to start over be willing to go again so describe to us then the moment at Wembley with 80 ,000 people watching where you've done everything you can to generate this post-war crowd.

36:27You've left no stone unturned. And then you are faced with having to pick yourself up off the canvas and process what must have felt like a crushing defeat at the moment. Because we've all had it, we've all faced moments like that, but yours was done under such a public spotlight. Tell us how you learned to process that and come back. yeah no that I mean that was horrific it was absolutely horrific um and I didn't I don't even know I don't think I processed it properly at the time I mean I think I was numb from it like not just the punch but uh we come out of Wembley I had a little flat in West London that was I'd bought a couple years before but we planned to come home that night and it was just a really weird sobering sort of place to be.

37:19I wasn't in a good place, obviously. Knew I had to take the loss with humility, but I was seething, like rock bottom, like absolute rock bottom. But we go on holiday, me and the Mississippi book, we just go the next day, pack a bag and go. And then once we went, it was in Dubai, literally that day, land, and I'm on the phone to Kalasau and like, I'm ready to go like what can we do so I'm already scheming to get back I'm chasing it like I'm absolutely chasing it but in my brain I'm like again I think I still was thinking world champion without a belt like who next I'm making up for lost ground got to chase it so just chasing it but it was it was awful it was awful couldn't enjoy any of it So what advice George would you give to anyone listening to this that maybe is facing their own canvas moment where they're having to learn how to pick themselves up from a setback or failure or a disappointment what what lessons did you learn from it that are applicable what didn't leave me at that point was desire like desire and drive which is vital um what i would have done differently is just took a little bit more time to to breathe to assess and absorb the situation speak speak to the people around you you know like I've never had a therapist or anything but um I've always bounced ideas off the people closest to me and um that serves me really well my wife in particular you know we'll we'll we'll chew the fat on stuff and usually you'll come to a logical conclusion and then you trust your gut you know you you my guts never really failed never really fail you so um that would probably be my my advice if you have felt some some shortcomings i mean there's always someone out there worse off than you there's always something to it and there's always something to be to be thankful for and there's always a lesson to be learned so just don't lose that desire at that point stay switched on stay um focused and uh but for me right now i could have done with probably just letting the dust settle a little bit and see if there's any other changes I needed to make before you know going back to it back back to work but I think I think that's probably the best I could say for the listeners no thank you thanks for being so candid about what's a difficult moment appreciate it so we always end with our quick fire questions the first one is what three non-negotiable behaviors do you and the people around you need to buy into uh well yeah i'll go back to what i've in the first two will be uh belief like self-belief confidence unwavering self-belief and there will come a time when maybe you'll have to let go of the dream but until then give it everything you've finally got and then i think trust your gut if you can um surround yourself with with the right people good people when you can and then trust your gut on that if you could go back to one moment of your life what would that be and why i don't i mean people ask me would i change anything and i don't think i would because i wouldn't roll the dice on a different outcome not being where i am now and i think i am happy you know i'm as happy as as i want to be um and i'm happy now because of lots of the suffering that i've you know that i faced or what felt like suffering i would love to go back to wembley stadium with roch not necessarily for a different outcome, but I was so consumed with the performance that I never really took in the atmosphere.

41:02So that's a real shame. And I was obviously grieving after the loss. I didn't take in any atmosphere after the fight. So that would be where I'd like to venture back to. What book would you offer up to the members of the High Performance Book Club? I'm not a big reader to be honest it's not how I sort of like to consume media I don't it doesn't stick stick with me but I thought about that question on the way in and it's not even really the same sort of media but what I used to like to do and I still like to do is I like to go running in the dark with music and it's actually pretty good for solving a lot of your problems that might be way back I just end up in a bit of a trance like flow flow yeah when you're driving or whatnot but this is even better so I used to go running around Old Deer Park in Richmond and you'd end up doing your sweat runs quite late at night and obviously when you're sweating and you're dehydrated you're a little bit more emotional anyway and it would be pitch black and I'd have music in my ears safe in the knowledge that if someone attacked me I could probably outrun them or defend yourself but But that was pretty cool.

42:21That was the closest I would get. I mean, yeah, I'd work out a lot of problems that way. And the final question is really your last message to the listeners of this podcast. What is your one golden rule for living a high-performance life? Yeah, I think if you want to perform to the best of your ability, like I said in the opening show, be in the arena, slipping and sliding, making the punches, missing, firing back, live in the moment, be happy and be present with the belief that you're there to conquer the world. Top man. Thank you for joining us. Thank you.

43:01Damien. Jake. What I thought was really interesting there was the desire to lead from the front. I mean, he said a lot of times, you know, I led from the front. It was me. I was front and center. The need to take that on himself. I just wonder whether, in hindsight, if he'd have got the perfect people around him earlier on, taken on less himself, delegated more to others, maybe that world title would have come earlier. Yeah, absolutely. I think sometimes we talk about entourages, especially when you think about it in terms of boxing or young athletes, as a negative influence, the idea of being surrounded by people that are just telling you what you want to hear and blowing smoke up your backside.

43:39but actually a good entourage is essential people that take the pressure off you do skills that you're not capable of and allow you to focus and it's just as important for a fighter as much as the skills that you're acquiring in the ring so i think it's important for anyone listening to this to ask themselves have i got the right entourage around me to allow me to go and focus and perform and also you know don't feel that you have to do it yourself you know life's a team sport i i think there are very few things in life that we do better on our own and with a group of people yeah and and that's almost like the irony of something like boxing there's so many paradoxes it's known as chess with gloves on so you've got to be cerebral but equally it's a physical game and it's almost like the ultimate individual sport and yet it is a team game with the people that are in your dressing room and that's a powerful lesson for anybody in any pursuit yeah life is a team sport and also remember this is a guy who had the trauma of really badly damaging an opponent then had the three world title fights finally conquered the world and only felt relief you know i can't remind people often enough how important it is to not think that there is this amazing moment of hallelujah at the end of life it is only the doing that gives you the joy yeah i think we hear it so often and I don't think it can be repeated frequently enough this idea of you've got to enjoy the journey like Joey said even if he had that chance to go back he'd go back to that night of his most crushing loss just so he could at least enjoy the experience and I think all too often we're focused on where we want to get to rather than how we're going to get there thanks mate loved it thank you mate well look thank you so much to George for coming on the podcast and sharing his thoughts with us and as always big thanks goes to you for growing and sharing this podcast among your community please continue to spread the learnings you're taking from these conversations send them to a friend pop them in a whatsapp group stick them on linkedin share them in a work conversation or a work setting but please just remember there is no secret it is all there for you so chase world class basics don't get high on your own supply remain humble curious and empathetic by the way i just want to say uh george has his own podcast as well called the george groves boxing club and like all of the best podcasts so much of the conversation he has isn't actually about boxing it's about life and mindset and resilience and understanding and empathy so uh feel free to check out george's podcast george groves boxing club you won't regret it

46:25Thank you.