Gordon Ramsay: 'It's f**king raw!' Reflections on a life of adversity and achievement (E221)

0:00Watch it early on the High Performance app. Available now, Roman Kemp, the broadcaster, opens up a powerful conversation on success and mental health. Hi there, you're listening to High Performance, the award-winning podcast that unlocks the minds of some of the most fascinating people on the planet. I'm Jake Humphrey, and alongside Professor Damien Hughes, we've spoken to over 200 guests as we learn from the stories, successes, and struggles from their lives, allowing us all to explore, be challenged and to grow. Here's what's coming up today. There is a strong chance to do well. It depends on you.

0:41And it's finding gears that you never felt you had in your wheelhouse. And self-motivation is critical. Growing up and watching the destruction that my father was creating and he taught me in many ways how to become a great father by doing the opposite of what he showed me. Christmas morning, one of the most exciting mornings for a kid across the year should be that moment seeing your mum and dad. I didn't see my mum because she was out working. Hard work is about beating competition. We'd operate Monday to Saturday, 16, 17 hours a day. We'd live on Lucas Aid and Mars bars and then Marco would say, hey, look, we've got four new members of staff starting on Monday.

1:25But these four guys and girls would walk in on Monday morning, and we'd have bets who'd be there within 24 hours. They just disappeared. They could not stand the heat. And so it made you stronger. I strive for perfection. My life is about high performance. And when I haven't got that high performance, I need to up the jeopardy. And there's not one plate, one diner, one member of the team ever taken for granted. Stay close to the action.

1:55okay so gordon ramsey on the high performance podcast one of the things that isn't always talked about is the tough times that gordon's gone through in his career i think lots of people know that he had a really difficult start in life we'll talk about that in this episode but the truth is that they built his resilience they created the man that has gone on to have incredible success so actually when those tough times returned during his tv career during his cooking career when he to take big risks when he was living with fear about what his next move was going to be. It was the resiliency built in those early years that saw him through.

2:28You're going to hear about that and you're going to hear about so much more. So let's get straight to it then. He's an incredible guest on this podcast. I'm so excited to bring you this conversation as we welcome Gordon Ramsey to High Performance.

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4:24By the way, there is some bad language, as you might expect, in this episode of High Performance.

4:32Well, Gordon, first of all, thank you so much for finding the time to join us. Good to see you, bud. And you. What is high performance? High performance for me is a double-edged sword. It's dangerous. Very, very few make it. And then when you're on that edge, you understand the consequences when you can't get a high performance. So certain issues with perfection, is hard to sort of congregate your mind on a daily basis. But high performance is about relentlessness in my mind. So are you a perfectionist? I'm a self-confessed perfectionist, yeah. I had a proper insight to perfection early on in my career.

5:19And that's a path that you, you know, there's lanes in life, isn't there? And I'm done with that bullshit about staying in your lane. I want to own my lane. and that's high performance on a daily basis. I need that shot. I think it's one of the most exciting industries to be in as a restaurateur, chef, cook, whatever you want to call it. But there's also the shit end of the stick. There's the double shifts and defrosting frozen food and sticking shit in a fryer. That's the lower divisions of food. And I was determined to get the fuck out of there early because when you start in this industry, you go through those divisions I remember a chef back in Stratford-upon-Avon where I grew up was showing me how to make a roast potato and he was peeling the potatoes blanching them in the deep fat fryer and then sprinkling fucking bobble dust over the top and that was the roast potato so that scared the shit out of me and I think you need to have both ends of the spectrum to understand high performance but it's about climbing that division and owning it.

6:31So I'm interested where the understanding of what you're capable of comes from. Can you remember the first time that you saw, almost saw the possibilities that life can offer if you actually go for something? Yeah, that's a good question. I think when I stood alongside Marco, Marco Pierre-White, for two years and side by side, 16 hours a day, relentless, because I was in that pursuit of perfection and this guy put food on a plate like Picasso. And I wanted to get that level of discipline. And so Marco was up north with some food critic away for the weekend and for some unknown reason, I can't remember, but he couldn't come back to the restaurant to open it after the holidays.

7:12And all of a sudden I was in charge and he was on the phone every two minutes explaining what to do, but I knew what to do, but I'd never been given the reins. And at 22, when you're dropped in the shit like that, it's sink or swim. so I didn't really understand the amount of pressure I was under at that particular time but what I did see was empty plates coming back from the restaurant and it was a high octane, two Michelin star establishment and every customer was licking their lips every customer couldn't quite believe how good the food was and it was that moment shit, Marco's not here but what he's given me and taught me I've just replicated now I need to become individual I need to step away from what he's shown me.

7:55And I need to search for my own DNA. But you already, though, had something, because you don't end up in a Marco Pierre white kitchen unless you're already grafting, chasing perfection, thinking that you actually deserve to be there. Like, even further back, I know you played football as a young guy. Like, was this mindset that Gordon was destined for something there when you were 12, 13, 14, 15? Ooh, that's a tough one. I was hungry. I was in pursuit of something to better myself it's interesting when you grow up with a disadvantaged childhood at the time you don't know it's that bad but there is embarrassing moments at school where you're called out to do the photographs and you've got to go with the family because I had my brother and my sister at the same school because you weren't allowed to do it individually because your parents would never pay for that and then there was the embarrassment every day when you went into the refectory for lunch we had luncheon vouchers and there was a separate queue and so it was like council house kids on the left hand side and posh kids on the right hand side and that gave you a complex that gave you a a sort of a stern warning to get your shit together so I think that's what helped shape me for that level of hunger to get focused because I wasn't embarrassed about what my mum put on the table I was embarrassed about the way it was segregated in the way that you were made to feel separate from the classroom because your mum and dad couldn't afford to give you any money for school lunch.

9:24But also a lot of people will see you as the hugely famous, hugely successful chef and not maybe know that story. When you think about how hard those days were, where does your mind take you back to if you're happy to share actually how difficult it was? Yeah, I'm grateful. I'm grateful for those moments. There was no distractions in those days. So you sort of clung on to anything that's shiny. And spending time with my mum at work, getting into this little tiny restaurant, helping her prep vegetables was a godsend. That was before football practice. That was after school. But also just growing up and watching her handle three jobs.

10:06Christmas morning, one of the most exciting mornings for a kid across the year should be that moment, seeing your mum and dad. But I didn't see my mum because she was out working. So you then understand just how hard life can be. And you don't walk around looking for a pity party. You just want to better yourself. You want to put a new benchmark under the name Ramsey and create something different. How did you take the mindset of, you know, because anyone that has that early on, there is a moment where they think, why is this my life? Why do I have challenge? How did you go about turning those negative experiences into positive action.

10:46Yeah, I've always been a solution solver. I've never sat there. Even at that age. Even at that age. Because I got involved with sport early on and so I was super fit, good at what I did. And I think having a chance to get involved with football at a high level and that's been taken away from you was a big blow. And so you don't sit there and become bitter for the rest of your life. It's just dust yourself down. Mum always told me, you know, deal with it. get on it early, get your priorities right, you know, focus on what you want out of life. And so those traits still sit there daily, even today.

11:22What do you want to have today? What's the solution when we get problems? So growing up and watching the destruction that my father was creating, and he taught me in many ways how to become a great father by doing the opposite of what he showed me. And so I was desperate for that chance to get out of that mess and create something special for myself. What sort of father was he? Didn't really get on with him in a way that he in many ways was maybe some fair to say a failed magician, but he was into music, played with the Marty Wilds, had these band, did records, etc. But I remember on multiple occasions we're going in and out at bars lumping gear every Saturday night and then sat watching him.

12:07It was never a fun evening because as the drinks got bigger the room got feistier and all of a sudden you're sort of rushed out in the back of a transit van and you're sort of disappearing. So I never really had that connect with him. We never really bonded. We never really spent a lot of time together. So, you know, I make up for that now having two sons, you know, Jack and Oscar. And so we learn from the defaults, don't you? And mum was my mother and father because that's how strong she was. And that's admirable from a woman. That was the connect that I didn't envisage because I never thought I'd be looking towards my mum for, you know, dad's incompetence.

12:48And she filled that void beautifully. And that's an amazing bond when you got that with your mum. And you mentioned football at an early age. You were playing at Rangers. Yeah. And you said it gets taken away from you. Your career was ended really early on by injury, right? Rapidly. Yeah, I was a fiddle, you know, six foot two, naturally left footed. very, very few individuals got past me. And so I was, yeah, I was a steam train. I remember playing at a testimonial for the first team, got my first call-up. And then, of course, he'd just broken into the first team. He was playing for Scotland under-21s.

13:24I was 18 at the time. Dave McPherson just got his first big call-up. And so all of a sudden you're in this amazing team. You're on the sheet. Your name's there, number three on the back of the shirt. And I went in for this 50-50 tackle and it was crunch. And I laid there in such pain, tore my crucial ligament and smashed my cartilage. Then we didn't have private healthcare. You didn't get whisked off to Germany for the latest surgeon. You're on the rubbish heap. You're in the scrap heap. Because there's four or five guys behind me instantly to take my place. That was devastating. Then I came back down to Banbury in Oxfordshire.

14:01And I lived in a council flat with my sister. And then got into college, got into catering. as a way of becoming independent and moving further away from the upset that was in my mind on a daily basis. How painful was that? Brutally painful, especially when your mates are making it and they're progressing and you're seeing the headlines. You're purposely not watching the news. You're purposely not finding out the scores at five to five on a Saturday afternoon because you want to move away from that. So it was that moment that my mum taught me, dust yourself down, pick yourself up and go again.

14:35And then that freedom with the connection with food all of a sudden started to really resonate the sort of the breadth of what you need to understand. And then I got to London. I had to head to London. I had to go into somewhere unique in order to learn unique things. Because if you want to be one of the best, you need to work with the best. And it's not about money. It's not about hours. You just need to work with the best. Whatever they do, you need to follow suit. That's a short-term investment for a long-term gain. I wonder, you know, whether as difficult as those early years were with your relationship with your dad, and, you know, as you said, basically humiliation at school.

15:14You're in the poor kid's queue, right? Yeah. I wonder whether actually those experiences equipped you for, at the end of your football career, to kind of find a way forwards rather, you know, people get derailed for years after that kind of... Yeah. Well, I had a similar parallel, because I could see my father not making it and breaking out. in music, not being sought after, couldn't earn a living and look after the family full-time. He swam for Scotland at the age of 15. And so he had this incredible, strong sort of sport background. But I could see this failed, you know, music guy that wasn't making it, money was getting less and less, the gigs weren't coming in.

15:55And all of a sudden, you know, he ended up playing in crappy bars and sat there with a little pile of CDs, which was embarrassing. So I witnessed him clinging on to something that was never going to happen. And it was to the family's detriment that they all struggled because of him hanging on to something that didn't provide for the family. And so in many ways, with that shock of having football taken away and witnessing my dad clinging on to something for too long, it made me more decisive. And in business, you need to be decisive. And so from an early age, I was super on it to what I needed to do to get out the mess that I was born in.

16:32It's a good reminder, isn't it, for all of us that just because something's hard for you doesn't mean it isn't actually good for you. Have you managed to sort of resolve that in your own head that maybe you are grateful for some of those early experiences because you wouldn't be sitting here having this conversation? Super grateful. Listen, we haven't been diagnosed with a horrendous disease. Yeah. You haven't been given six months to live. So you've got to live in the real world. I do that. I calibrate that on a daily basis. So I got over that early. And then I had father figures in my life. Marco, Pierre White was like a big brother father figure.

17:02Albert Roux at Le Gavroche was another father figure. Guiseuois in Paris, all of a sudden you start going to their wings. And once your talent in that division, then all they do is pass you on to absolute amazing establishments to sort of learn. And I think the secret early on is every time I got to a level, next time I went into another establishment, I came down a level to learn even greater. Because sometimes when you jump too high, the learning stops because they want to know what you've just been taught. So that was bullshit for me because it wasn't making me any better. And I was on that pursuit to garner all this info, intel, intel, everywhere I went, give me the intel.

17:42What is it? How does that sourdough work perfectly? How do you bone out a pigeon beautifully and not waste anything on that carcass? And so that intel was this gathering of, Incredible stuff. Let's talk about where it all began. So you've taken the leap, you've headed down, you've gone to technical college. Yeah. You're living in a flat. Yeah. When you take yourself back to the Gordon Ramsay mindset at that point, what was it? Listen, there was a charity called Banbury Roundtable. And I think every town has these roundtable charities. They paid for my first set of fucking whites. They bought my first set of knives.

18:21They bought my first floppy hat. And so everyone asked, why did you do so much for charity? It started with charity. And so if it wasn't for that incredible moment, I think it was 62 quid for a set of knives, two chef's jackets, horrendous trousers, and these fucking ridiculous clogs that no one could walk in. And so all of a sudden these knives were your possession and your sort of tools. And so I was polishing them sharply every day. And I remember nipping the end off one of them once and I was gutted the fact that these knives were cheap. These were 17 pounds for a set of like 25 knives. but you respect them and so that moment for me was you've got all the tools now do something with it and then there's that level of insecurity that can't be apparent when you're standing next to such talent because you want to know what they've got and you have to be a sponge without insecurity because the insecurity stops you from learning because you think you're never going to get there and so kitchens are tempestuous boisterous environments and always You see that piston firing every day, and they're all on the make because they want to be superstars.

19:28And it's a tough environment. But I then related those moments back to the dressing room at Ibrox. And if you think the kitchen's tough, wait to see or hear some of the shit you get told and called in a dressing room when no one's listening, and you're getting pummeled. So that gave me the armor and that coat of resilience to get on in the industry. not fast-tracked, but to take the blows when necessary. Let's talk about the steps then. Yeah. Who was the first person that you met, the first chef where you thought, that is what I want to be? I'd say Marco Pioi. When we came down to London for a big exhibition in the industry, it was called Hotel Olympia.

20:11And we came down for the weekend from Banbury. And we never got anywhere near a famous chef. The closest we got was to a neckerchief belonging to Anton Moselman that was in a glass box outside the fucking Dorchester Hotel. And we'd drive by this hotel and we were sort of told to get off the bus and go and look at Anton Edelman's white starched hat and his neckerchief. And that was the closest we got. And so think about that. And then standing next to someone like Marco, you're grateful, but you're going to be one of the most talented sponges. he's ever had by his side. So you process it quickly when you're on that drive for success.

20:56And at this point, what is the drive? Is the drive, I want to become successful? Is the drive, I want to escape where I've come from? Is the drive, I just absolutely love food? No. I saw a chance. I saw a chance of becoming unique. I think we're all blessed with that in our lives somewhere. How did you see that though? I could sense it because it made me ignite. I could see this incredible beginning of something unique. And I think when we look at individuals, figureheads in our lives, and we want to aspire to become them, but when they give you what they've got, all of a sudden, there's this treasure chest of uniqueness.

21:33And so that was unfolding weekly. And then there'd be new kids starting in that kitchen, and within 48 hours, they were gone. They couldn't handle the heat. How did that make you feel? Stronger. Yeah, because we thrive on other people's weaknesses in that business. And that's the shellfish thing to admit, but I'm going to be honest with you. We thrive on other people's weaknesses, especially in the kitchen. That gave you hype. And it gave you the chest beating moment where you can stand tall. And I used to laugh because we were short-staffed. We'd operate Monday to Saturday, 16, 17 hours a day, Sunday off.

22:10You're fucked. I mean, I used to wake up on Sunday, midday and I was fucked. I mean, just physically, mentally exhausted. We'd live on Lucas A, the Mars bars. And then Marco would say, hey, look, we've got four new members of staff starting on Monday. Don't worry. We're going to cut your hours. We're going to start taking half days off during the week and we'll get down to five and a half day a week. You think back then, five and a half day a week. And that was the dream. But these four guys and girls would walk in on Monday morning and we'd have bets who'd be there within 24 hours. They just disappeared.

22:43They could not stand the heat and so it made you stronger was there ever a moment where you thought this is relentless this is ridiculous this is not what i thought it was i can't handle the heat i'm gonna get out of the kitchen never not once fuck no never i wanted it i absolutely wanted it because i could see this opening of escape i could see the grind the grit determination all paying off and i was becoming better, don't forget. So you got to sort of self reflect a little bit. Because all of a sudden, I'd mastered a tortellini, I could make beautiful pasta, I understood how to braise, you know, short ribs.

23:24And so that's the payoff. And when you're not getting that substance back, and you're not learning on that level, then it's time to quit. But I was I was learning so fast. I mean, it was just, it was incredible to what I was gaining. You know, when I was a teenager, I lost my grandma to suicide, right? Which was so difficult as we were, like, as close as you can get, grandma and grandson. And then I was wondering, why did life change so much for me straight after that? And I saw a quote not long ago saying, people who've gone through trauma have a fire lit inside them that people who haven't can never quite understand.

24:02There's a sense of that now, I think. Yeah, there is. I mean, trauma is a tough word. I mean, I think I put that down to experience because it didn't take me out. I also had the parallel of my little brother, 15 months younger than me, as a heroin addict. And so I had to constantly remind myself that him and I were mates. Him and I were sleeping in a bunk bed in a council house on multiple occasions. And this kid was always underneath me and messing around and lifting up the bunk bed and literally with his feet moving the fucking thing to the left and half past two in the morning shaking it. And so we had fun.

24:44And so you have to remind yourself that if I don't stay on the straight and narrow, I don't get out of this shit mess, I don't climb that ladder, I don't get good, and I don't start earning my own keep. If I can't get my own property, if I can't invest in bricks and mortar, that's the result. And so it's a very fresh reminder on a daily basis between your ears. get your shit together because close to you there's an addict that's on the verge of killing himself and that's your little brother and then I saw mum's frustration never having a chance to own her own house and so I think for any woman and guy you know, security's in bricks and mortar and we were, we never, they never owned anything and so when dad was, you know, incredibly drunk he'd turn the place over and then mum would be left getting superglue, putting all these vases together, her favorite bits of you know, China and so at the age of 19 I bought my first flat a tiny little one bedroom flat in Banbury and that was my payoff, I felt then that shit, you know, I'm proud I've got a mortgage, I've got a flat and I've got a mate staying in there but I'm also progressing my career so I was almost in this cycle to sort of better myself too quickly because of the sort of let down I felt for my father.

26:05And brilliant that you were able to take those steps forwards, which is kind of that stretch and reward thing. You were getting stretched, you were getting the rewards. Tiny rewards. Yes. It's a speckle, but it gives you hope. It gives you confidence. You're becoming more into it. And all of a sudden, you're starting to calculate the benefits because you're outsmarting the shit standing behind you. And then you were sort of, you were feeling better. And even at 19, 20, 21, no matter what happened, I had more security at the age of 19 than my father ever did at 55. And while you were having these small steps forwards, you also had this, I guess, a North Star for you at the time, Marco Pierre White in the kitchen, guiding you, challenging you, probably no doubt pushing you to your limits.

26:50You've spoken so much about him over the years. I've heard numerous times you've said, oh, Marco, I just had, you know, it was incredible, what a guy. What was it? I think we had similar backgrounds. He lost his mum at a young age. And his father, he didn't have a good relationship. So I think you sort of, you attach yourself to similar circumstances. And then there was an era of confidence that he knew he was better than the field. He'd worked for Nico, Albert, Pierre, Raymond Blanc, and all of a sudden, you know, he was the new kid on the block. I knew after spending a couple of years with Marco that I had to come back to the fold with something different.

27:27So that's what got me into the Gavroche under the Rue brothers. Because it was an area of sort of fine dining that I'd never been exposed to. Three-star Michelin. Marco was two and Le Gavroche was three. But even before I went to Le Gavroche, I knew I had to go to France because I had to come back to the fold and outsmart Marco. He'd never gone to France. He got stopped in his tracks and he got too big too soon. So he couldn't disappear to France. So I knew in my engine room, I had that little advantage that I'm going to fuck off to France, become French, absorb myself in one of the most amazing countries in the world and just gather more intel and come back and outsmart everybody in London.

28:14Did you love the idea of arriving green behind the gills, inexperienced in Marco's kitchen and then having in your head that one day I'm going to be a better chef than you. Yeah, because he wanted you to. He pushed you to the extreme. How did he do that? He drummed it in. You know, if you're going to do it, do it to your best. And if you don't want to do it to your best, get the fuck out of here. Don't waste my time and certainly don't waste yours. And I think it's a lot of life lessons early on because you're getting structured, you're getting hungry, you're getting knowledge, and all of a sudden you're becoming a beast because are the monster he created and the monster you're working for.

28:49And so I see those environments all the time. And I say to the individuals, stay in that environment, get what you need and get out. And when the shit hits the fan, learn to dance in the storm. It's a great place to be in because somewhere down the line, there's going to be a shit storm on your radar and you're going to stand tall in that storm and you're going to get through it. And when the storm would come to you in the kitchen, what was the best way to get out of that storm? Solution. Because I was experienced enough to handle that. And I'd know there wasn't any area in that kitchen, restaurant, bar, wine cellar that I hadn't tackled.

29:25And so that's what you go in search of. And I knew my weaknesses. And that's why stepping into Le Gavroche, I'd never baked before. But if I'm going to have my own business, I need to understand how to bake a poin poland, a sourdough, for catch. I need to understand that. But I came out of Harvey's under Marco's tenor. going into Le Gavroche, I was, you know, posted to get on the fish and the meat, the top two sections. But no, I wanted to become a baker because it was one bit that I hadn't understood the chemistry of baking. So on that trajectory, you've got to still find those weaknesses to enhance, you know, that platform to make sure it is solid.

30:01So when that shitstorm comes, you are not depending on anybody because you've got it in your itinerary. Were you getting arrogant at any point in this period and needing to be slapped down? Or did you remain humble I think arrogant is the wrong word. It's called confidence. And that's misconstrued to those that are lesser talented than you. Look at that arrogant twat. He doesn't like being told, no, dude, I've got my shit together. I know my shit. You're a dreamer. And in this industry, like many industries, there's dreamers that want it, but haven't got it to commit, haven't got it with mindset, haven't got it with their broad shoulders, and haven't got it in their attitude.

30:40So, yeah, I'm going to put that down to confidence, not arrogance. There's a big difference, Jane. So what's arrogance then? Is arrogance… Arrogance is mouthing off you can do it and not living up to the fucking potential. Can we talk then about hard work, attention to detail? Yeah. Because everywhere you look, everyone tells you, I work really hard, I pay great attention to detail. Yes. Take us into those early years as a chef. What did hard work actually look like? Yeah, hard work was that relentless fifth, sixth gear, standing in front of a tiny team and remaining as an example where you're focusing on their weaknesses, offloading everything you've got, and then still finding gears that the team around you never thought you'd have.

31:28Setting examples, first in, last out, being more personable with the staff in a way that you're showing them how good they can become but they need to commit to being good for as long a period as you can get out of them and that takes a lot of convincing because when you're learning it becomes so much more crucial when that teacher is inspirational so you can't shut down so I learned to open up early on and then there's this level of unselfishness chefs are precious dainty little souls that are guarded with everything they've got they don't want to give much So I understood the importance of opening up and talking and showing.

32:07And then when the shit is the fan, here's why it went wrong. This is what we're going to do. Dust yourself down, bounce back. And that journey on the way back is so much more rewarding than sitting on top. And I said to them, the mistakes you've just made, I've made a thousand of them, but never the same mistake twice. Hard work is just that. And then hard work is about beating competition. it's about being in front of the industry and in our industry you move it or it moves you and customers vote with their feet jay no one rings you up and said you know what wasn't that good i'm not coming back they vote with their feet so as a stern indicator i used to look at the waiting list every day and see the waiting list i'd make sure there's a waiting list equivalent to the entire dining room so we never dropped the ball and it was just a message to everybody around me, look, we've got 45 booked for dinner and there's fucking 45 on the waiting list.

33:05Understand the importance of making sure you've got a backup. Plan B. Everyone needs a plan B in life and sometimes there's a plan C in your head but you never want to talk about it. But you do need it. That's interesting. Today's High Performance Podcast is in association with AG1 and actually the last couple of weeks has been a great reminder to me about why AG1 is so important for me because I've been on the road, 10 different cities in eight days, four different countries. And the fact I've been living out of a suitcase, I haven't had my routine means actually I have missed taking my AG1 in the mornings.

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36:21I want to play you a clip when you mentioned giving back and sharing. Yes. Marcus Waring has been on the podcast before. Okay. So this is when he joined us and he spoke about you. He'd just spent three and a half years with Marco White at Harvey's, the rock and roll kitchen, the kitchen that was unlike no other in anywhere in this country that he'd ever seen, anyone had ever seen before. and so he came into Gavroche with that training that tasting that attention to detail that perfection on the cutting of the fish that brilliance of putting food on the plate taste taste taste you look around the kitchen people weren't tasting food they would just go through a process and that's the one thing that was a point of difference so that was when as I focused on him I added that into my arsenal just kept adding and adding and adding and just loved it and mimic it because he was mimicking Marco but Marco was I never had the chance to work with Marco interesting yeah mimicking is a good word I mean I suppose I was grateful and fortunate that I was given that uniqueness from him and that's going back to what you said earlier about the arrogance that's why it is in many ways it looks oh my god how cocky is he no trust me there's a price to pay for success you can't buy it but you can be taught it and I'm done with all that bullshit well it's got to be in your DNA you need a nonno your grandma needs to be a great chef That is absolute fucking bullshit.

37:42But like anything successful, you can work at it. And I can prove that on multiple occasions. I have a different technique with young chefs today. I teach them how to taste first before I teach them how to cook. Because they don't understand how it tastes to perfection. They shouldn't be cooking it. So let's talk about the taste factors. Close your eyes. Tell me what that tastes like. And so then there's multiple taste tests that is called an education on the palate. And then we go to cook. so they understand what it tastes like at its absolute moment of perfection. Then we're going to cook it.

38:17And too many chefs cook first and then they start tasting. No, taste the fucking thing first. Register where we're going with it and then go back. It's the opposite way around, but it works brilliantly. And I think when we discuss this story of relentlessness and attention to detail and focus and drive, you started this podcast by saying high performance is actually a double-edged sword. Yeah. And am I right in thinking that there was a moment where you had to, did you take time out and go and walk on a boat? Yeah, I sort of crammed this sort of six-year incredible culinary uniqueness. Two-star, three-star, three-star, two-star establishments.

38:53I was beaten to a pulp and I was fucked. And there's that moment in your mind, right, time out. I was 25 years of age. Didn't have a pot to piss in, by the way. I had to reverse charges calling my mum which was always embarrassing and she was this amazing woman that worked for the social security and on the back of the way that she was abused in her marriage she then went and worked in these incredible homes for battered women and so she was connected to all the sort of local police stations and she worked for women's aid and there was this incredible sort of job she had mentoring these young women And so I remember phoning her and reversing the charges.

39:38I felt so fucking bad. But I said, mum, I'm reversing the charges because I'm skint. So what are you doing? I said, I'm going to go work on a boat. She said, what? Why are you on a boat? I said, I just need some time out. So I got down to Monaco and there's a sort of a yachty world down there. And it's a beautiful thing to do, provided it doesn't suck you in. And it's a little bit like the raw below deck. If you thought Below Deck today, you should have seen it fucking 20 years ago. It was ridiculous. And I got onto this amazing boat with this wonderful owner, a private man, beautiful man called Reg Grundy.

40:15At the time, he had Sailor of the Century and Neighbors as his big hits, Australian, and he was based in Bermuda, and he wanted a personal chef. So it was the most glorious 12 fucking months of my entire life because what I was doing in this tiny galley, two hours a day, was a fraction of what I was doing. But all his knowledge was going back to him and he didn't want fine dining. He just wanted really good food, cooked beautifully. So we met the boat in Monaco, went down to Sardinia, Sicily, did all the south of France and then October we crossed the Atlantic and went over to Antigua and did the Caribbean.

40:50It was a tax-free salary. I had an amazing cabin, beautiful life. I was doing three tank dives a day, scuba diving and then my batteries were charging and it's an amazing world to be in but there's no governing body you can do what you want and no one's going to tell you off and so here i was in the situation cash positive but it wasn't enough on this glorious yacht working for this amazing owner i wanted then to be put to the test i needed to be under the spotlight and that's where i came back and I opened my first restaurant, Aubergine, at the age of 27. And that was set up through Marco's contacts.

41:32They had these Italian partners and I got given 25 % of a restaurant. I knew jack shit about a P &L. I didn't understand how to run a business, but I could certainly cook. And so it turned out I'd been given 25 % of debt because this restaurant had failed massively. And so you learn quickly. But man, this tiny little bistro at the back of Beyond a Fulham Road went from this little shithole to this two-star Michelin, six months fully booked and advanced restaurant that was just a little powerhouse. And then I started pissing people off the big wigs in the two and three-star Michelin establishments in these hotels because this tiny little restaurant with a basement kitchen, which was like a fucking hellhole, half the size of this thing, but nowhere near as glamorous as this.

42:16And it was powerful. We went from zero to two stars in three years. What was the secret? The secret was the lightness. I had garnered this technique of cooking odd cuisine with very little cream, very little butter, but delivered something unique. And nobody was doing food like that. No one was along that style. We were uniquely individual because it was, you know, using beautiful poaching methods and then grilling them after we were aerating sauces. And it was just, it was light, it was unique, and it was attractive, really attractive. There's a recurring theme as well here though about following your instincts, following your gut.

42:54You know, the football doesn't work out and you go down and you enroll in technical college and you sort of follow your gut there and then you go and do various culinary jobs, meet Marco and your gut tells you there's something this guy can teach me. You knew when to take a step away and go and walk on a boat. You knew when to come back to London and to do this and you also very cleverly understood what people wanted on their plates at that point. And you also had to follow your gut when aubergine ended, right? Yeah. I mean, I wanted security for myself. You know, we couldn't be any more successful with two-star Michelin on the verge of getting three.

43:27But I had no ownership. And then I realized that I'm fucking done working for other people. I've got to commit and I want to work for myself. And then you risk it all again. Tana and I bought our first flat together and I had to convince her that I need the money, the equity to give the bank security because there's only a three-year lease at La Tocleur, the restaurant we were buying for restaurant Gordon Ramsay. And the banks told us to fuck off. There's no way we've got security on that. There's no head lease. There's no validity in this thing. So it doesn't make sense. I said, no, it will do because I've got all this knowledge.

44:01I'm going to get three stars. No, no, you're unproven. So that really got me riled to come back with an answer. Fuck it. I'm going to put everything I've got into this business and it will work. So that was the moment where I asked for patience from Tana. We just had our first baby, Megan, and it was shit or bust. And there's that moment again. But I've been there several times in my life. How did you know it would work? Because I've been there several times in my life. I had bounced back from adversity as a youngster. I was faced with shit and embarrassment going to see my parents. I was protecting my mum unbeknown to my father.

44:43And so all these little caveats make this big, meaningful purpose that I knew I was going to make it. To walk away from that restaurant, to risk your flat with your wife, with your newborn child, there's a lot on your shoulders at that point. I'm interested in where the little dissenting voice, the doubt, the imposter syndrome, the fear, what role were they playing? Success needs, and then the lining level of jeopardy. and there's no success anywhere in the world that hasn't got jeopardy. I strive for perfection. My life is about high performance and when I haven't got that high performance, I need to up the jeopardy because that's what creates.

45:24And when I go into these situations and it's all safe and easy and a piece of cake, I'll turn it upside down purposely to create a little bit more drama, a little bit more jeopardy to keep me on my toes. That's self-perpetuated. So you'll never see that because you won't know what level I'm turning it up or dialing it in or dialing it down. You know, though, there's a conscious decision like I need to put something in my life here. I want that because I don't want it all plain sailing. I think that's the bit that I was never in doubt. I had five years success at Aubergine and so Rollos Road was definitely going to work.

46:03I didn't take things for granted. I just wanted to prove the point because I had disgruntled backers that were screwing me at the time. I had 25 % of the success that I created that was getting sort of trodden on. And I had nothing to show for it. So again, you turn it up, dial it in. And I remember going to the bank, I think it was the Bank of Scotland, and I said, look, we're going to operate Monday to Friday, just like the Tom Clare. And these four guys and two women said, you're closing Saturday, Sunday? It's your busiest days. I said, no, fuck off. Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday are going to be my busiest days.

46:38I know, but there's no restaurant that will ever succeed unless it's open for Saturday and Sunday lunch. I'm like, Sunday fucking lunch? Who's cooking Sunday lunch? I'm going to be off. So that's why they literally ignored the business plan, didn't want to invest in it, didn't want to give me... I think I was only asking for like half a million pounds. I'd saved something like 350 ,000 pounds, which doesn't seem a lot, but back then it was fucking huge. But Pierre Kaufman, this amazing Frenchman, he let me pay half the money on year one and the second half of the money year two out of cash flow.

47:08One of the most generous strokes I've ever seen by a Frenchman. And so I never forget that moment. No, because they're tight bastards. And they are tough. But there's that mentorship thing again, someone stepping up for you. Incredible. And had he not done that, I would have been fucked. I'd never have made it. So there was the double-edged sword of paying him back and not him getting access to the lease again. And so there was so much jeopardy. I'll go back to the point about I enjoyed the jeopardy because I needed that level of shit. It's got to work. So that propels you even more with the velocity of jeopardy.

47:38And it's really important in our lives to keep that jeopardy because it really does make you perform automatically. And very few businesses understand the word jeopardy. Is that why TV was attractive? Because it was another challenge? Oh, fucking hell, hold on a minute. TV for me back then, it was boiling point. That was not TV. That was brutal. That was a documentary, you know, following the pursuit of trying to stand on your two feet. By the way, I decided to watch that before this. Shit, no, Jake. Jesus Christ. You've got too much time on your hands. Was it anywhere you didn't let the cameras go?

48:11I mean... Well, listen, you know... That was a proper reality TV. I mean, I got... I mean, it was ironic because an amazing lady called Pat Llewellyn who founded, you know, The Naked Chef and Two Fat Ladies and Kitchen Nightmares, she said, look, you know, what do you want me to do with you? There's Boiling Point and there's The Naked Chef. You've got this Essex kid sliding down a fucking banister, lovely jubbly throw it in the tray and fuck off for a game of golf come back and stuff your face and you got you running around like a fucking idiot with your head cut off uh screaming at everybody i said yeah but i'm searching for three stars said you need to stick to what you're good at and that's perfection and so it was interesting because i was so naive i had no idea what that fucking microphone meant because i forgot the cameras and people say why do you get so upset because no that's the same we're on or off camera that's me I'm not going to play up for the sake of it I'm passionate about what I do did you need that to get the three stars or if you did sit and watch it back now would you be going I didn't need to act like that to be successful ITV called me in to a viewing a week before Boiling Point was going out and it was on Channel 4 then ITV were making it ITV studios were making it for Channel 4 and I sat in this it was like a little fucking mini cinema there was like teas, coffees, biscuits.

49:31I had a packet of figs. I thought, shit, this is amazing. And then I turned around. I'm in the room on my own. There's a booth with a glass wall and I could see a couple of execs back there. So I fucking sat back in this chair. Fucking screen opened up and then fucking the opening credits went. I went, oh my God. That's enough. Thank you very much indeed. I'm out of here. And yeah, I think I shat an egg roll. I literally shat my pants. I couldn't quite believe just how raw that thing was. And I was naive. I was, you know, half stupid, but I was in pursuit of something I'd strived for. And there was nothing that was getting in my way because everything was depending on it.

50:14We were in temporary lodgings. We had a tiny little studio. Tana had stopped working then because of Megan. We couldn't afford any home help. And so every dish I was sending, I was focusing on that jeopardy again it's the jeopardy that keeps me buoyant to creating a high performance mechanism some may say that's a little bit too far but I didn't know any different I'm not blaming anybody because that was all my own self-doing but boiling point Jesus Christ what a moment and it led to what is now an outstanding media career with my background I find it particularly interesting. I remember you bursting on the scene.

50:58And as you say, not just very different to Jamie Oliver, right? You were different to everybody. And I wonder, as it started to go and producers started talking to you about formats and personalities and having an impact, how much did you think about your TV persona? I didn't. Not at all. I didn't give a shit. So even when you were going on track shows and saying outrageous stuff or dropping the odd swear word, that wasn't... You weren't thinking, how can I have the most impact in this next 10 minutes on this chat? I never had those preconceived ideas, Jake. You don't go in there with that. I mean, my first breakthrough was Kitchen Nightmares.

51:37And I'd go into these restaurants, and they'd let me off the lead at the front of the door like a fucking sniffer dog. I'd go in there, and there's the cameraman, the sound, and the producer. I turned that place upside down. I took those things incredibly personal. and so we'd spend 10 days in this business turning the chef around redecorating the place launching it and then I'd go back a fucking month later this is for somebody else's business that's the point because I can understand why you care about yours why did you care about their business? but because it wasn't a format for me it wasn't about IP or format or success remember the first program it was 5.8 million viewers channel 4 fucking kitchen nightmares and so then all the intrusion started then everyone wanted to know who you were What was your background?

52:22What makes this guy tick? I'm like, I'm the same on or off. There's no... And I always say there's this celebrity chef moment that we're not, and we're a real chef that works on TV. And so these restaurants then get put back on the map. They go out. Viewers flock to them. These restaurants get so successful. But then when they don't work, you get blamed. When they're mega successful, you don't get any thanks. And so, yeah, Kitchen Nightmares was an important one for me because I think you got to see the sort of nuts and bolts of the industry on how stupid some of these owners are. And I just called it out.

52:59I literally called it out. But yeah. And so that's me, by the way. But then I think back to the bollockings I got with Marco or Albert, Guy Savoie, Joe Robichon. They taught me well. They taught me really well. And loads of chefs have done the TV thing. No chef has done it to the level and the sustained level that you have does that also come back to the competitive nature as well uh god it's a tough one isn't it um you know that's a really good question it's a tough one to yeah and we've just finished season 22 of hell's kitchen yeah and um it's airing next week and now you can't do it for that long without loving and you loved cooking you loved i suppose what i'm trying to say i run a restaurant fox run a show and so so it's a second so you're still the chef fucking right i am because i don't do that on a daily basis so when i get a chance to do it and run a restaurant i love it because it's me it's live the curtains are up and there's real bookings there's individuals cooking and if the lamb is raw it's fucking raw but they're on this show for a quarter million dollars to lift their career but if you've been cooking for 10 years you can't fucking cook a rack of lamb.

54:09What the fuck are you doing in here? How do you deserve a quarter of a million dollars when you're not fit for purpose? And so I can't then turn around and say, oh shit, the camera's watching. Oh, can you hear me? I'm going to give it to them. I'm going to absolutely let rip. And maybe that's just the way I am. That's the way I'm taught. So I don't want to go in there. Would you be so kind to pass me the raw lamb? I'll serve it to the fucking dog for dinner. I just, no, you Muppet get your shit together or fuck off and coming back to the double-edged sword the TV career goes amazing things are flying you've popped in the States which as we all know every broadcaster in the UK would love to do and very few manage it but then at the same time some of the reviews are tricky the Harden's that had some of your restaurants in the most disappointing country experiences there was huge profit drop loss of a star at Claridge's I'm very interested in how Gordon Ramsay dealt with that I don't think it's any different to a critic critiquing Man City winning the treble or Man United finishing fourth.

55:11You've got to put up with that shit. What you do need to learn in life, anyone in high performance, is that you're judged by individuals that know less about food than you do. And so it's the nature of the beast. Because I don't give a fuck. Never have done, never will do. But when it starts getting personal and they're launching these guys on the back of your name because they want to nominate the most disappointing meal. That's easy mud throwing. Had you taken your eye off the ball, do you think? Or was it just... No. You were there to be shut down, maybe? But do you buy the Hartle's Guide? No.

55:45Is it still printed now? I wouldn't know. I've never looked at it. Nor would I. Makes two of us. But this Michelin star would have hurt. We're talking about a completely different caliber of recognition here. Yeah. A global, iconic guide that visits these restaurants incognito. So, Jake, I sleep at night with both eyes closed. Don't you fucking worry about that. And 23 years at Three Michelin Stars. Trust me. I'm a happy boy. Good. Let's talk about happiness then. Yes. Where does family fit into that happiness for you? The balance. Yeah. This industry is an absolute bitch if you don't control it.

56:27Because it's lost too many good chefs. to depression, suicide. It's lost too many phenomenal individuals because they've been sucked in and beaten by the industry. They can't let go. The minute I won my third Michelin star, I learned to delegate. I learned to offload and I learned to become unselfish and get those individuals to share the success that we were building, to create thoroughbreds, a breeding stable. and Manchester United of kitchens that can go on and win and lose on a weekly basis, but still be renowned as one of the best in the world. And as we sit here today, what do you still feel you have to achieve?

57:11That's a tough one. Anything that I've strived for from a culinary perspective. There's one little clink in the armour. I won two stars in France, in Bordeaux, Russian Gordon Ramsay at Le Presse d 'Argent. And I love the French. I love the glamour of Horde Cuisine. And I think that would really sort of confirm that final notch on my sort of deathbed, the fact that we won three stars in France. And we're one star away from that. So if it happens, brilliant. If it doesn't, so what? But that would be the final swan song because growing up on a council estate, living in 15 different shitty homes, And being taught how to cook, to go back to France, the sort of the birthplace of hors cuisine and win three stars.

58:06But I'm so fucking close. You have no idea. And yeah, that's the one little clink. Yeah, so we're not done yet. I think that is really interesting to talk about the fact that you're chasing a star. How old are you now? 84. How old do you feel? I don't feel 84. 56. When you say chasing, it's the confirmation how good that is. We are so close. We are so close. So yeah, 56. Going back to the importance of the delegation and not getting sucked into it. When you're in the orchestra, you're focusing on those fine tunes and that high octane perfection. When you're conducting, you've got 55 of you in the orchestra and that's exactly the same with the position we're in now.

59:01So coming from playing to conducting it's a very difficult transition. Really difficult transition. And that's what we're sort of harmonizing on a daily basis in a beautiful way by the way. And how old were you when you won your first star? 28, 27. So 20 years since your first star. Yeah. You're close to getting another one the one that as you say would give that ultimate confirmation. Yes. This is the power of consistency. This is the joy of longevity. This is the thing that so few people manage. What do you think the secret is? Brutal honesty with the team. We don't sit on laurels and we stay in front of the competition.

59:47A restaurant Gordon Ramsay today celebrates 25 years. Restaurants have a shelf life. 72 % of them closed in the first three years. We're 24 years next year at Three Star Michelin. So far, so good because of the systems in place and there's not one plate, one diner, one member of the team ever taken for granted. Stay close to the action. That's what we do. And stay close to the people that are most important to you. I think before we wrap this up, I've read and watched and listened to a lot of stuff and I just want to talk about Tana for a moment there right when you were at the centre the epicentre of your seriously busy life still there today I know you went through a personal trauma losing a child a few years ago I'd love you just to tell us the secret to a long-term marriage which has its highs and its lows Yeah.

1:00:49The amount of time you don't see is hard. And so we worked out very early on in life that the time we're going to have is make it quality. So I committed to those two days off Saturday, Sunday, and she knew I was exhausted and shattered. But you need to work in harmony. You need to get that level of support. You need to be on the same page. So the secret of that relationship is communication and then dealing with the trauma of losing an amazing tiny little baby and just watching that devastation unfold and everything happening live and you're there you value each other we started off as best mates and we we were young we were stupid and we were skint.

1:01:42I remember going to ask her father if I could borrow 20 grand for the deposit for a flat that we fell in love with. And I thought this was all going well. Lunch is good. I'll pay for lunch. And I said, oh, by the way, Chris, about that deposit, Tana and I, we've got half of it. We need the other 20 grand. I'll pay you back in a year. He said, okay. Yeah. here's what I'll do. I'll have another lunch with you when you sell your Porsche. I thought, you fucker. But, you clever fucker. Here I am, driving around in a flash fucking 911. 911 turbo conversion. And Tyler and I loved the car. And we didn't even have a fucking house.

1:02:33We didn't have a flat. We didn't have a roof over our heads. That's the best advice he ever gave me. sell your fucking Porsche. I did sell it. And 10 years later, I went and bought it back. Same car? Same fucking car. Yes. How did that feel? It felt amazing. I get embarrassed with the toys because I used to be embarrassed with my father dropping us off at school with his Vauxhall Viva. There was more fucking rust on the inside than there was on the outside. And so you start getting into sort of 10, 11, 12 years of age. And because three of us were in the same school, we'd asked to be dropped off way before because this beaten up fucking car was barely working.

1:03:12So we'd constantly go to car auctions and buy all shit cars and start the most from there, alternates from there, seats from this one. And this thing looked like a fucking scrapyard going to school. So I get embarrassed with what I've invested in now as a collection of amazing supercars. But it's amazing when you can't stop thinking about the sort of the beginning of this journey. And then you sort of, you don't want to indulge, but you want to enjoy the sort of fruits of your labor. And before I quick fire questions, that's actually where I want to end. You know, having those cars is a real clear message for people who are maybe listening to this, and maybe they are in the same place that Gordon Ramsay was when he was 12, 13 years of age.

1:03:50What would your message be to those young people that feel that life has dealt the cards in such a way that they're never going to be sitting in the chair that you're sitting in right now? Yeah, you've got every chance of success. It's never around money. There's a level of success you can get just by getting out of a tiny situation you're in. And then you climb that ladder one week, one month, one year at a time. And you pat yourself down that you've done well. Don't look for other people to do that for you. And so there is a strong chance to do well. it depends on you and it's finding gears that you never felt you had in your wheelhouse and self-motivation is critical and somewhere down the line we're all going to get dealt a dysfunctional card in life just by situations and the earlier you get dealt a dysfunctional card in life the fucking better because it gives you a much stronger hand when you come to play it.

1:05:06Beautiful. Quickfire questions, Gordon. Please. So let's start with your three non-negotiables that you and the people around you must buy into. Three non-negotiable behaviors. First one is, you need to be a sponge. Yeah. The best listening device is you. Sponge. The second one is, take it professionally, not personally. I can't stress how important that is. Getting told off is fucking good. Really healthy. But take it professionally. Don't take it personally. And the third one is thick skin. You're never going to please everyone. Stop worrying about keeping everybody happy in the room. Fuck it.

1:05:54It doesn't exist. Remember that. Your advice to a young Gordon just starting out? Stay hungry and stay fit. if you go back to one moment in your life where would you go and why if I had one moment to go back in life and why that's a tough fucking question fucking hell Jake one moment I've got 25 how long have you got come on you'll know the one one moment it would be never employ family we haven't even touched on that subject have we don't need to nah the press did that for us beautifully and I mean that and I can say that open honestly because we have five kids and I never want to put the onus on my team oh it's fucking Ramsey's daughter oh it's Ramsey's son five amazing kids and what I learned back from 2010 was you know don't mix family and business stay independent look after family but don't mix it I saw Meg go to work this morning and she took a degree from Oxford Brookes and she's now in the Met Police and she's putting her stab vest on and you think God, everything I've done and created it's too easy to say hey Meg, go and run one of Daddy's restaurants there's no fucking way she wants anything to do she loves the restaurant she's a great chef but she's now a police officer And that gives me such amount of happiness to see that individuality.

1:07:36Jack as a Royal Marine Commando and training and just where he is now, four years into the Marines. Holly into the fashion and Tilly into her university, her final year. We're going to have two of the kids that have got degree. We didn't get A-levels. We didn't even get... University wasn't even on our agenda. So you have to understand how hard it is for those kids because it's too easy just to fall onto your parents' radar and pick them up and stick them in a restaurant because they can't be fucking bothered. No. And that's the strength of Tana and I communicating together and feeding off each other's strengths and supporting our weaknesses.

1:08:19Love that. And the final question, your one final message really to the people that have listened to this fascinating conversation and thank you for sharing so much with us. your one golden rule, if you like, to living a high-performance life? My one golden rule to living a high-performance life is never fear a storm. Learn to dance in the rain. It's got me through so much shit in my life. I'm so happy when people tell me, be careful. It's stormy out there. I fucking love it.

1:08:57Damien. Jake. Well, you weren't there for the recording with Gordon Ramsay. What did you make of it? Loved it. It was like a classic high-performance episode to me. I loved the stories about the hard work, the origins coming from quite humble backgrounds, the willingness to take great leaps, you know, his story about working with Marco Pierre White. I found intriguing. And what really shone out for me was how passionate he is about his craft. This is a man that's constantly revising, reflecting and enhancing what he can do in the kitchen. I loved his constant search for challenge. I love the fact that he looks for the challenge, that he's then inspired by the adversity that comes with the challenge and that he takes energy from that.

1:09:40It's almost like if he's not being backed into a corner by someone else, he'll back himself into the corner and out will come that fiery, fighting, ultra-confident Gordon that's keen to show people wrong and prove that he's right. and I also like love the optimism yeah everything he did was filled with optimism and that is great when you've come from such a negative upbringing and I think it's the one thing that I'd love people to learn from it is the power of just being optimistic and it allows you to take the challenge and take the risk but didn't you also say to me when we were chatting about it afterwards that it was the purposefulness of him that everything he did had to be laser focused yeah and I really like that.

1:10:20It just means that he never floats. He's never kind of just floating through. You know, when we spoke about what you're up to, what have you been doing, it was like, I was here because I was here and then I went to this country for this and tomorrow I'm flying to this country to do this and then I've got this project. Everything was really intentional with him. Laser focused on what he was doing. Total understanding of why he's doing it. And then I think that allows him to know what he wants to get out of it. I left inspired. Yeah, I could tell. And I thought you did a great job as well, mate.

1:10:48I totally enjoyed listening to that. Even without my wingman? No, no, I really enjoyed listening to that. That was brilliant. So, well done. So, there we go. Gordon Ramsay on the High Performance Podcast. Listen, if you want High Performance in your hand every single day, then you can download the High Performance app. You will get daily boosts, so you'll hear messages from our guests. You'll get early access to episodes, hear them before anybody else. Exclusive content and loads more still to come. I honestly recommend that you go to the App Store right now, download High Performance, and use your unique access code, HPAPP, for access.

1:11:23Thank you so much for listening. Please continue to spread the learnings that you're taking from these conversations wherever you are in the world. Chase world-class basics, remain humble, and remember, high performance looks different to everyone. So chase your own version. Thanks for listening.

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