Heavyweight boxer, Francis Ngannou: How I took responsibility for my own destiny (E238)

0:28Watch it early on the High Performance App. and to grow. Here's what's coming up.

1:00they know all the story they know all the worst thing that is happening there that you don't you have no idea but they have no choice i mean i won look at me now look at my life look at where i was when you think i lost the dream that i was carrying since i was kid i was that night living that dream on top of the wound i was there Oh wow, okay then, here we go. Welcome to the only podcast that NNA fighter and boxer Francis Nganou is doing ahead of his upcoming fight with Anthony Joshua. So we met recently in a central London hotel and you know what, Francis walked into the room with such incredible presence.

1:44Like I'm six foot four and I felt small next to him, but interestingly he walked into the room on his own. He didn't have a huge entourage. It wasn't what you'd normally expect from a boxer. He's a man who's been through so much. The truth is that the things he's experienced in his life have helped to build his confidence and create the independent, strong-willed man that you see today. And we talk in this episode about sharing the ring with Tyson Fury. Of course, we talk about when he knocked Tyson down to the canvas. He also shares his feelings about the upcoming fight with Anthony Joshua, but he shares so much more.

2:20You're going to hear Francis lay bare, his incredibly impoverished upbringing in Cameroon, his loneliness as a child, his treacherous journey as an undocumented migrant to Europe, but how all of those things have built him, have created the fighter and have also created the man. You'll hear about his beliefs, his mindset, his work ethic and his passion. It's all in this episode as we welcome Francis and Garnu. The episode comes next, but first a few messages from our valued partners who allow us to give you this content absolutely free. Of course, I know that ads aren't for everyone. And if you want to listen ad free, then you can do so by going to the App Store and downloading the High Performance app.

3:02Right, let's do it then. Francis and Garnu on High Performance. hey everyone look myself and damien want just one minute of your time to talk to you about whoop game-changing wearable tech and we've partnered with whoop to offer you a 30-day risk-free trial all you need to do is hit the link in the description to this podcast and you can make 2024 your best year yet whoop measures your fitness your recovery and your sleep and best of all, it coaches you through. And we know the importance of getting feedback and consistent behaviours. Whoop helps you get both. And I think that sleep is the underrated golden bullet for high performance.

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5:52Well, Francis, thank you very much for joining us. Thank you. Welcome to the show. What do you believe high performance is? I think it exceeds your limit. I think it goes above average. High performance is about, I would say, it's about making differences, difference between others because there is a performance that everybody would do, but what makes some performance high performance, I think it's the dedication, also the discipline that you put in it. And in order to put those, you need a motivation too. And all that combined with your hard work, then you get the result of you get to the high performance.

6:50I love the idea of doing the things that other people don't do. So let's rewind right back to a young guy growing up in Cameroon. Was there a moment where you realized that maybe the way that you thought was different to the way the people around you were thinking? As soon as I can remember I always knew that that difference was quite obvious since I was kid but didn't and then people around me they notice it and he has a negative effect you know like I was like what maybe seven eight years old and I was questioning like adult like yes but why and in Africa they don't like that you have to obey you have to listen and do what the elder person say or parents and then i have to i need to understand reason of staff and i have my own vision or opinion about staff and i shouldn't according to them and that that make my upbringing even tougher because yes we were very poor yes we our we were very unstable in in our family and even in resource and everything.

8:11But I was just like a bad kid, a kid that question, adult, a kid that disobey, that doesn't respect. And it was bad. So why did you? I don't know. I mean, they were noticing it. But for me, it wasn't something that I'm like, okay, let's do this. I was just a kid. I think it was just my way of thinking that was different, but it wasn't something that I wasn't clever enough at that point to think that I should do things differently, right? It was just me, and I grew up like that. And every time, I would have my own way or my own opinion on doing things. And I was the example not to follow. A lot of people didn't want me around their kids.

9:04They didn't want me around their family. I'm like, I would intoxicate them. Like I have a bad thinking. They want their kids to be respectful. These, and then I don't come. They don't want me to come around and stick these nasty ideas of curiosity, disobeys to their kids or something. I was just a black shit growing up. Can you give us an example of what you're describing? What was the kind of questions you were asking? For example, I was six years old, and then I went to my aunt, who was like the older sister of my mum, and then she has like eight kids in the house. And among those eight kids, I fit in like maybe the fifth.

10:02Yeah, we were the same age. And I miss my parents so much at that point. And I love my family and I love my dad, my mom, my siblings and everything. And the divorce separated us. I'm there. I found myself in this family. I'm not seeing my mom. I'm not seeing my dad. I'm not seeing my brother or my sister. and I don't know when I'm going to see them. So I start to reflect to that and thinking about it. And someday it was just me and my aunt in the kitchen and she was walking and I look at her and then I ask her why my mom and my dad couldn't stay together like your husband and you. And I was just like six, about six or close to seven years old.

11:00she look at me like this and since that day she passed away in 2018 and she she didn't believe that i was a kid she knew that this is not a kid this is something else like for her he was like the spirit a different spirit was a spirit was living in the body of a kid like something and uh but in a negative way you know so he was really bad on me that yes like when they say that in africa he's he's a bad way you know well you're loved by people around you your mom and dad weren't there your brothers and sisters weren't there who was loving you at the age of six or seven i was missing them i mean uh sometime i think at that age what kids need is their parents and what they used for, you know.

11:56Until then, the only people that I really know and get familiar with was my parents and my siblings. Why couldn't you stay with them? And all of a sudden, they are not there anymore. I found myself in this city, far away, five hours, at least five hours away from anybody that I know. I remember I was maybe like 12 years, 11 or 12 years old. Then I get sick. and then one of my far cousins came to the house because I was very sick and for a long time and he came to the house and he said, if you're tired of living, you can go now but don't make our sister's life complicated and then when they say that, you know uh we have a they have a story in africa that there is this body that come in the form of a kid and they come in some family and sometimes they can come with blessing and sometimes they can just come with trouble so he was his own way to say like he was speaking to a spirit he wasn't speaking to me as a kid you know like okay if you're tired uh of living you can die now basically like leave our sister now, like give her a break now.

13:22There's an interesting psychological theory on this called around attachment theory that up until the age of five, we learn how do we receive care and affection from our caregivers and that's often the relationship we have with our parents or the adults in our lives. So given that you had to move away to your auntie and you were classed as a troublesome child, how do you think it affected you in terms of establishing relationships now in your adult life at that moment he affected me a lot you know i was very attaching but at the same time when i look at it now it was something that i need for my own growth personal growth for my own development Why?

14:09Because I look back in my life, everything that led me here, it's basically like everything was planned. Like my life, my whole life, I've just been like following a plan. You know, even without knowing what I'm doing, I'm following a plan. Like, if you go at certain moment of my life and change one thing, then there is 80 % of a chance that I wouldn't be here where I am today, right? So what happened at that moment, I started to think about it a lot. And then what I did was that I started to imagine the perfect family that I wanted or the perfect life that I wanted. I imagined it so much that I started to build it, adjust everything to make it perfect.

15:11it then i get to the point that i get that perfect life in my mind and then he become a thing i have this family life in my mind that i was living and then at some point of the day i'm gonna escape basically when it's tough i can escape go to that family you know under that imaginary family that everything is perfect my mom is there my sister my siblings are there my dad is there and then everything is right i'm going to school i don't have a book problem or a pen pen problem everything is perfect it was the best thing that i had at that moment so I was so attached into it and it was evolving over the years and then and that's also something that I get to the point that you know at first you're trying to fit in because I live with my hands for three years and after that I start to move here with my uncle for six months and there and there and everywhere you're trying to fit in you know you're trying to uh feeling whether it's at home or at school or out there just trying to have a friend but my own world get so big that i think at some point uh inconsciently i accepted the situation and just get back in myself i accepted myself my life as he was and i was dealing with me and from that moment i never need to belong anymore and i never need a friend like thing that i was chasing all the time did you have many friends no no i was moving all those time and then like not only i went to some place and then i was stranger at home you know have to get familiar even with kids at home or uh or around in the neighborhood have we have to know each other and i was alone i was a new guy trying to fit in same thing at school and then by the time maybe i trying to they started recognize my face i'm moving somewhere and something that didn't help not only i was a new kid but for some you know when you're a new kids and you're the cool kid it's cool you have friends really quick you're the guy that come with cool stuff and these but it was the reverse year i was a new kid but the one that maybe after two three days at school they're gonna kick him out of the school because he didn't pay a scholar fee or he didn't have a notebook a book to take note on or he didn't have a pen so from that moment not only you're a stranger but you're basically embarrassing nobody wants to be friend with kind of and that's what's make it even harder and i get to the point that and i struggle with that for a long time but things everything changed when i accepted it i'm like okay just having my wall my visual world in my mind was enough for me to escape and when I was dealing with tough stuff I would go hang out with that world that I have in my mind.

18:57I'm fascinated by what you're describing is in many ways visualization so in the skill in psychology often sports people use it is to visualize an outcome they want and then construct their whole life to move towards it And I'm interested, how much of that visualization skill that you were doing to imagine the perfect family, do you still use today then, Francis? I still have that. I visualize a lot. You know, like it's something that I grew up with. It's something that I lived with for so many years, you know. And then I find myself, it gets me comfortable. I found myself at some point in life that I didn't have friends and I didn't need friends.

19:49You know, I didn't even need people.

19:57And for some people, when you say that, it's kind of like sad. But that has become my biggest strain, not to be independent, not to be dependent on anybody. or anything so the thing about me is that everything that i'm doing or what we are doing here is cool this is cool this is cool i'm capable of live without all of this if needed if i feel like i need it i'm capable to walk away like there was never something here but how does that impact relationships now like as an adult like with your partner or or making friends or bringing coaches into your circle i will not say he impacts i have a very tight circle i'm very uh lonely person i'm very independent for some people most of the people they don't understand but it's my own way of being one thing that I refuse to do is to let people's judgment impact my life obviously I get to some point in my life and then things start to change and I started to become the cool guy and I started to get invited invitation to parties and stuff like that But I never find my spot.

21:29I will go to the party, then I don't want to be there. I realize that I don't want to be there. And then the way that at some point I need to escape to go somewhere that I'm alone, that's how I refresh, I refuse. Otherwise, I feel like it's drowning my energy, you know. And then I start to maybe turn down. but the problem is that when people get interested about you when you're cool and then they discover the person that you are and i'm like yes you think he's cool because they don't really know you which is exactly the same thing that you have from like maybe five years ago but five years ago nobody give a damn about you 10 years ago nobody gives a damn but they are discovering you now.

22:26And I'm like, yeah, he's doing this because he's cool. No, he's not nice. He doesn't like me. He doesn't this. No, he's just like that. He just likes to be with himself. To this day, like, again, I have my, even when I go home and I love my family so much, I have my own place. There is a place for time for family. There is a time for me. And then when comes time for me, if family is messing around, that's no cool. I need my space. I need my moment with me. And that's how I work. I think it's a really powerful message for people. Because we often forget that all the things that we went through when we were young is the reason why we are where we are today.

23:18You know, there wasn't young Francis and the Francis you are now. They're not two separate people. It's all one. And a lot of this came from the challenge and the hard times. I'd love you to explain to the people watching and listening to this that while you were at school, without the money to take a pen or a book or a bag and you had no friends and you felt you didn't belong with your aunt and all of the family, you were working in a sand mine as well, right? Yeah. I mean, that was three years after because I went to my aunts like I was six right when my parents divorced, right? And then after two years and a half, I went back in the village.

23:59And then at first I was with my grandma. And that's the moment that we started to go to the sand mine because our uncle was working in the sand mine. I mean, at that point, he was our only option, my big brother and I, to go to the sand mine trying to contribute. first of all, like when you go to the sand mine and work, at least you get fit that day. And then the pay, we figure that after. But most of the time we were working with our uncle, which help us when he can. So there wasn't a salary at that point because he was the guy that helped us, obviously. So we were helping him for the most part in order to help us.

24:46And what was it like? I mean, describe what a sand mine is like. First of all, it's not anything that you want a nine-year-old to be working there because it's like strong. You have to dig sand or shovel sand all day long and do all this hard work in the mountain that they are digging, which is dangerous. Sometimes he collapses and even kills people when they're, I mean, yeah, it was tough. At first, we were just like, kind of like helping, doing that. We were, even though I was bigger than nine years old kid, but still wasn't strong enough to carry a big shovel and shovel sand and lift sand from like, I don't know, move sand from 10, 10, eight feet away, you know.

25:42I wasn't strong enough. So we kind of like build up and learn all the system. And at this point, what was your view of your life? Like, did you like your life? Never. That's one thing that my family didn't like about me as well, because they feel like I was rejecting them. Some people feel like I was blaming them for failing, because I wasn't accepting that life. and for them I should have for them I wasn't grateful I was looking seeing my life father and then one thing that I knew is that if someday I have a kid I don't want him to have my life the life that I had that's what I thought at that time today my regret is that my kid might never know my struggle my upbringing, my story which made me yeah i mean i didn't like it at all but third i'm grateful to the life that i had because things would be different i wouldn't be here again i wouldn't be here it's been years now that i start i go home sometime and see those kids that for me at that time they were the perfect kid i envy them so much i wish i belong to their family or something like that and everything was always right for them they always get his uh school uh fee pay up pay on time have book uh uh no pants everything they always go to vacation i've never been in vacation you know vacation time even a weekend for us it's time to go to work you know to try to get something and then they will go to vacation and then when school starts they will come with all these new sneakers new backpack new everything i hate the moment that school starts because that's the moment that you see all those new things around and you're embarrassed with your old shoes that has whole Oh, man.

27:56I hated that moment. I was more happy. I was okay when we get after a couple months because, yes, there are new shoes. It's not that clean anymore. Everything is not flashy anymore, and you don't look so different, right? Kind of like, yeah, it's different, but yeah, right? But at the beginning, everything is fresh. they come you know even a note new notebook has a smell you come to the class and everybody has this new notebook they are opening their notebook and you're out there looking for looking in your old book if you have a uh empty pages so you can take note on before finding time uh expect to have a notebook later on you are a testament though to the fact that the things that are hard for us aren't necessarily bad for us you know you're sitting here today because of the story that you went through and there's something else we'd like just to show you it's a photograph that damien's got um i'd just be interested in your reactions with francis

29:05so it's a photo of you with your dad yes my dad was a carpenter um and then he ended up in the village he was sick for so many years and then they thought whether i would be a builder or a farmer or a uh maybe a carpenter or a mechanic or something and my question was then why can i do something else like this like that like becoming a fighter i'm like no that's not for us uh have you ever seen anybody this, this, that? And then I would be like, I'm not sure about that. I'm going to find out. You know? And they didn't like that. And everything that I was, and even my alternative, because I have no guarantee that this is going to work.

30:03It was just a dream, but I hold this dream so much. I care about this dream so much. But even my alternative wasn't anything close to what they were doing. My life was somewhere else. I was looking to my life, expecting my life to be bright. I mean, my dad died, I was 15, and I was still at school. So, no many things was happening after that. Then I left school. Then I started being on my own. Then get to the point that I was sick again. I realized at some point that, okay, when my dad died, I had an excuse. I was a kid. I was going to school. Then I find myself at some point, I was an adult. I was 22, 24.

30:58Then I'm like, yes. My dad died at home. He didn't even die in the hospital. then I realized, I was like, if the same thing happened to my mom today, like, what, what can I do? You know, for my dad, I had, I have an excuse that I was a kid, I was going to school. Today, I'm an adult and I'm working, but I still can't afford anything. I still can't provide any security to me, to myself, to my family. and what happens if I have a kid and this? And that freaked me out. So take us to the age of 22 then, Francis, when you made the decision to take the leap and actually start to do something different, take a different pathway.

31:47I mean, at age 22, that's when I left the village to go do boxing, you know, because I was like, okay, it's been a dream for so long time and then if you don't do something to make a dream a reality you rather go back to sleep and keep dreaming because he will always he will remains a dream and that's i had to take action but and then the reason why i did that i feel that he was a moment i felt that he was a moment i couldn't do anything even like the job that i was doing i wasn't motivated to do i'm like man come on until when which kind of life is this was i born to just survive would i at some point in my life like find the excitement of living like or by doing something or by trying to do something and uh for like a year i wasn't even doing anything i was the best worker in the village but i wasn't really into it in my mind something was going on so at some point i just left

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35:03So do you think it was the power of that vision that you'd had that created what's often referred to as cognitive dissonance it was uncomfortable to stay where you were because you knew you had this really powerful dream of where you wanted to be Yeah, I have the dream and I also have the, I also need something to happen in my life. I'm also exhausted of this life that nothing has happened. I'm working day after day and still not have any security and still can provide any security. I'm a man already, supposed to be a man and not only take care of myself, but being able to take care of others.

35:51But I still don't have that security. And then I look around, I see people that are 50, 60, and they're in the same place like I am. And they were in the same place when they were 20. I realized 30 years happened. 30 years ago, they were in the same place, but nothing has changed in their life. So you resolved to leave Cameroon in the end? I first resolved to leave the village when I was 22, moved to the city, and that's when I started boxing. And I understand real quick that it can work there, but at least I keep training because whether it's in Cameroon or wherever, to become an athlete you need to practice.

36:43so I was practicing you need to have a skill to develop your skill so I was practicing but I knew that nothing was going to happen in Cameroon. What was it about boxing that attracted you as a means of escape? I always loved it as long as I can remember I always loved everything combat related. Movies, fighting, everything that was my thing. boxing uh because i look around at age 13 i look around i mean they kicked me out of the school someday and i was out and i think that was the day that i was like i was pissed you know like okay i've been trying to make this work why it doesn't work right i've been working in the sand inquiry a sand mine for for years now every free time that i have i'm in the sand mine trying to walk to get something but yes i'm still getting embarrassed like this like i was nothing and then uh you know i was in the school and kids will give you that look like yeah whatever like we know right i was so embarrassed but that day i went out and i was so pissed i have tears in my eye think about it and i even think about those look and i'm like yeah but they are not better than me they look at me like they are better than me they are not you know and then i I started trying to convince myself that no, I know what they are viewing me as.

38:27And I realize that I'm even better than them, man. The least that I have, I know the value of it. I earned it. They are just lucky to have parents that can provide. So at the end of the day, I know the effort that I put to have the minimum that I have, even though it's not enough. and i'm going to prove them and i was making this vow to me like with all my from my guts like this gonna happen like i'm gonna prove them they can't keep looking at me like that you know when you're down for so long coming back to a normal level wasn't enough you know just doing like a normal kid wasn't enough. They already have a picture of you.

39:18I wanted to, I needed to do something that's going to put me in the scare that they all have to look at me. Like, I need to step above average so they can look at me. And that's the day that above, between everything, my passion with combat, with fighting, then I realized the thing that would do that for me was boxing. Boxing is the thing that I'm going to do my passion without having a bad reputation as my dad, who was fighting. I realized boxing is the thing that combines everything that I want. I will fight. I will do good. And then all those kids will realize I'm not worthless. Yes, you know, that's the moment that I chose that I'm going to be a boxer.

40:14And I was 13. So nine years after was my first time to see a boxing gym. Wow. Yeah, moving forward nine years after that. But the dream keep living in me and bigger and bigger and bigger. like by the time that I went to find a boxing gym I feel like if I didn't find a boxing gym at that time I would have passed away like I needed it not in us there was nothing else that I want in life except that and then I was looking to do that and you decided you had to come to Europe to make that dream a reality you couldn't achieve it in Cameroon I've read lots of stories where people say france and saganu came to europe and it's one line it doesn't even begin to tell the story of the journey that you took and the journey that you needed all that energy all that desire all that drive to make it because there would have been so many opportunities to turn back on that journey yeah first i wasn't even like my first dream was in europe it was america the United States of America.

41:26I always love the United States of America. And then if you love boxing and you have heard a little bit about boxing, you know that it's happening in the United States of America. They will tell you, you will know Muhammad Ali, you will know Mike Tyson, you will know the famous fight of Mike Tyson, the rivalry between Mike Tyson and Evander Holyfield, you know, all that stuff. And it all happens in America, which is one more reason to go to America. But how to go to America from Cameroon? I mean, no way. First of all, I can afford even like take an appointment to the embassy for visa application.

42:22It's not even thinkable. The only thing that was closer was maybe navigate, immigrate, and get to North Africa and try to get in Europe. And there, maybe you have the opportunity to start something and to build up something to end up maybe in America. because even when I leave Cameroon, he was just for boxing. I have nothing else in mind. I think if he wasn't about boxing, I would just rather stay in my country because even the concept of like living without knowing where I'm going, without knowing if I will ever come back, without knowing anything, it was the most scary thing ever, right? I have only one reason, is to go find an opportunity for boxing.

43:18And that's how, and that's, I lived with that for so many years. I thought it out for so many years because I'm like, okay, is it a good idea? Maybe I should just stay here, settle, trying to get better. Maybe this, maybe that. Basically, you have heard people that have been gone for years, for decades, or that they never heard of anymore who potentially have died. And I'm like, man, maybe I'd rather have a life without dream instead of having a dream without life. You have all those questions. And how did that make you feel? You debate with yourself. you're trying to find to make a right decision for yourself but there's something inside you that you can resist that you can manage it's your dream you get to the point that you realize that people died chasing their dream or trying unless you die for something so is that the decision you made that you'd rather risk your life to escape and stay there that was the easy decision for me that's a decision that most of us do if you if you know a little bit about immigration that the decision that everybody do you see all those people that been rescued or died in the ocean every day they know all the story they know all the worst thing that is happening there that you don't you have no idea but they have no choice and believe me those who have choice they don't get there because the path to get there is so tough it's so scary and when you're in in it it's so scary when that you have to think twice if and if you have a choice a little bit of a choice it's easy to turn around and go back home you know because when you're in cameron or in senegal or wherever you are in africa and having a dream to go in europe are gonna get do this do this and get there and trying this and then when you get there and see the reality uh you realize that you didn't know the full story at all i mean you didn't you just have a piece of an iceberg in front of you there you have the whole iceberg in front of you and you're like man maybe i'd rather live without the dream though you know you you question that what was the hardest part of the journey?

46:00Talk us through it. The hardest part of the journey was to keep going, to keep going, knowing that you might not be coming back, you might not happen. I made it in Europe inside the zodiac, you know, the small inflatable zodiac like this that you put air on and pattern, you know, stuff that some people have that in their pool. If you have a decent pool, he will fit in your pool. You know, that was our ship. How many people were on that boat? Nine. It was nine of us. That was my seven. So what kept you going when you'd failed two, three, four times? The dream. The dream, the motivation. There was nothing to go back to.

46:51I think when you get to the point that you realize or you convince yourself that there's nothing to go back to. It's too hard, but a little easier than when there's something to go back to. Some people have something to go back to, and it's easy for them to go back. Maybe they are going back to live in their parent's house. I had a small apartment that was rented out. I let that a couple months ago. I had a I was a carrier in the market so I have a position there, I was gone for months, that position wasn't there what I was going back to, to start over, the little money that I make, that I have saved getting there all along the way, you spend it you call, like send me this and then you use it for this purpose trying to get there, and then you spend all that money if you go back is to start over so just to make it really clear to the people watching and listening just talk us through the steps of the journey so you started but you traveled to north africa from cameroon yeah i mean i left cameron from cameron now to nigeria yeah then from nigeria to nigeria and then from nigeria that's where you have to cross the desert and then get to algeria the Sahara Desert and get to Algeria, South Algeria.

48:23And then I have to cross Algeria and get to Morocco. And then from Morocco now, you start to evaluate your option. And then, you know, in Morocco, there's two spent territory. In the West, there's Ceuta. And in the East, North East, there's Amelia, which is like a little bit small territory but will belong to spain and they are protected by fans and guard arm guard both sides so if you get in that perimeter you're basically in spain if you're lucky enough not to get thrown back out you know so some people will try and those option i tried couple times that's where it didn't work um but i believe in the ocean i try ocean over and over and then you ended up you were homeless in paris yes we first get in spain and then get in the get in the um get in prison for like two months.

49:38After that, three hours. Then I was going to Germany because at that time, the Klitschko brothers, there was a Klitschko brothers in Germany, heavyweight boxing. And the train of heavyweight boxing was in Germany. So I was going there. Preferably, I would have come to. I wanted to come in England. but you know even when you're in europe to come to england it's another story you have to go not no friends part the color and then trying to maybe find drug and jump and do all these things and i'm like man i think i'm tired of doing this and i'm too big to i don't know like i just want a base somewhere to start and germany was the place to go and then but i was in the group of people, and most of them, they were going to Paris.

50:35And I stopped to Paris, like, oh, let's take a look in Paris, since everybody is about Paris, Paris, Paris, Paris. And then I stopped there, and then next day, I found a gym, I met somebody, and then met people. And then in like a week, I had a network, a small network around me, organization. I started to know things in paris and i'm like you know what it's not that bad maybe from here i can build you know when you can shout loud from anywhere they can hear you from far far distance i think from paris i can shout love that loud look it was the best thing that ever happened to you because you met someone they took a chance they took you into the boxing ring you ended up with a contract to fight in the UFC amazingly first I met uh first I went to the boxing gym yeah I didn't even know MMA I went to the boxing gym and I met a guy name of the name of DJ Carmel who helped me uh in a lot of aspect in Paris which is one yeah I mean he's the person that helped me the most like he talked to the boxing coach to get me in the gym and all the stuff he helped me financially like my first sneaker in paris he bought it to me my first my phone people were making fun on a phone on me with on my phone and then he gave me a new phone he gave me an apartment for two months so from the street to his apart to one apartment that he has in paris I lived there for two months.

52:20He was the guy. When you look back at Didier and the impact that he had, subsequently now when you're fighting the heavyweight champions of the world, how much do you feel you owe somebody that took a chance on you when nobody else would? How do you think about him now? Well, it's easy. I think positive about him. um didje and i was we're still in contact and then um again i'm grateful that i met him to with all the help that he has helped me we kept a good relationship and um i'm not disregarding everything that he has done to me or that every anybody have done to me but one thing that I always fight again, which most of people will not accept, is that it's not somebody that helped me or anybody that helped me will make me who I am.

53:21Because if you're a stupid person, they can help you as much as they want. You won't do anything. Your life depends on you. And the reason why I always fight against that, because most of people basically in Africa when I grew up, most of people think like if you have somebody that cannot help you, you can be anything and I strongly disagree with that. People can help you, but the only person that will help you and decide on your life and change your life is you. From the moment that you take that decision and put the work in, that's when you change your life. Somebody can bring everything in your life.

54:00Every of us know somebody that was born in a great family and they take good care and trying to make him a good life and he still ended up being an idiot. It's all about you. So I like to take credit myself for what I've become. It's not like I have done anything wrong, right? I give credit to who deserve, right? But I give credit to myself first as well because I've been the one going into all this, putting myself into this, right? My parents helped me, getting me in this world, you know, from the moment that I was the most vulnerable in my life that was there. And I will always be grateful for that.

54:49But I still get the credit of my life. And you deserve the credit because you continue to make really brave decisions. You know, you ended up in UFC, you became the heavyweight champion, and then you walked away from the UFC. like nobody does that francis like tell us the thinking tell us how you came to decision to walk away from ufc my dream my decision my principle um first we disagree on a lot of way that things were going i think the biggest mistake that the ufc did was to try to mistreat me or to muscles me up that can work on me i'm so stubborn to be master up you know like uh and then from that moment not only he allowed me to understand the business and to understand the mistake that was in the contract and whenever they come around with a contract i said we're gonna fix those because this gives you the power of this and take um take all my right and i can't do anything we have to make things fair and i'm like no we always do like that good for you but always do like that doesn't mean it's right and what works for somebody not necessarily work for somebody what doesn't work for others might work for me how about we try something us and uh there wasn't down for that and were you scared when you walked away yeah of course i mean you have this um big uh this big corporation this big company that has a lot of power they have a lot of investor they have a lot of financial power a lot of people have an interest in this company and then you're saying you're getting in the position that basically you're making them losing money the company will do everything to save that so you walked away francis and a lot of people watching and listening to this will be familiar about when you took on the impossible odds of facing Tyson Fury for the heavyweight championship I wouldn't ask you if you'll take us to that moment where you knocked him down you're stood in the opposite corner and you're seeing the heavyweight champion of the world on the canvas what was going through your mind nothing I was in that fight I was thinking about him I was thinking of what will happen next I I wasn't thinking about, you know, I don't carry my story in the ring and start, you know, you are there, you're fighting and you're like, okay, he's gonna come back up, this is gonna happen.

57:30And I knew that Tyson is the guy that will always come back from knockdown or something like that. The guy almost come back from knockout. So knockdown wouldn't be an issue for him. So he was cool, but how to handle the fight, I wasn't thinking about anything else except that fight at that moment. Maybe afterward or now we can reflect on that, but at that moment, that's not the thing that you think. And so many people watch that thought, this guy's won. Then they announce the results on the scorecards. You lose to a split decision. Your face, I expected you to look sad, down. Why? I mean, I won.

58:13Look at me now. Look at my life. look at where i was when you think i lost you think because some foolish judges make some decision that changed anything in my life my family that i was telling you about they were sitting in the first row watching that fight the dream that i was carrying since i was kid i was that night living that dream on top of the world i was there and for all the people that been doubting me i was there proving them wrong for everybody that ever looked me look down to me look me down i was there proving them wrong hi there there was whom watching me on their tv i've won everything you think like because some judges make a decision it's not a court the only decision that a judge can make to change my life is a court if he signed me to go to jail but i'm out here in fact because of that fight from that fight i won this fight i won everything i won everything that night on or that in that fight i think i won everything from boxing and the least that they could have get back was to get that like oh you son of the bitch you are not taking everything from us you know like what would have happened if i have they have given me a decision it makes the boxing look really bad like they need to save a face at some point i understand listen thank you so much for joining us the final thing you're about to fight anthony joshua very soon i saw anthony yesterday he said he said my job when i fight someone is to break their spirit and take their soul is it possible to do that to you after the life you've lived and the journey you've been on?

59:54You know, I will never say, they say never say never, nothing is impossible. Right? We don't know the strength of Anthony Joshua, but even though I don't believe he has that strength, but we're going to find out in two months. We're going to find out, and I think the reverse is going to happen. I'm going to be the one taking his soul.

1:00:26Damien. Jake. I mean, what an interesting conversation. I think that you can't talk to Francis Ngannou about being a fighter without understanding the man behind the fighter. And I think that's what that conversation was about. Yeah, absolutely. There's an old saying in boxing that when everyone else steps out of the ring, there's only one person steps forward. And that one person is what we were discovering today. Somebody with that history, that story, that resilience. That's what we want to know, who's under the arc lights. you know what I thought was really interesting is like he has said openly he wants to be the baddest man on the planet you know that's the journey that he is on to prove he is the baddest man on the planet yet the person that's just sat in front of us is calm um eloquent quietly spoken he doesn't bring a huge energy into the room he doesn't he didn't come in with 15 20 people in an entourage you'd almost miss him if he quietly walked into the back of a room do you know what I mean, it's not what you would expect from someone in his position.

1:01:24And I mean that wholly as a compliment. Yeah, yeah. Well, I think context is always relevant here, that I think in a boxing context, being the baddest man on the planet means a certain thing. It's being belligerent, being gnarly and nasty. But that doesn't mean you have to be like that in every other aspect of your life. You can be that decent, calm, understated person in lots of other ways. And I think there's something really powerful about that. and I just I look at him now in the position he's in and I think you know that his response to the defeat by Tyson Fury is the perfect example of this whatever happens to him as he's just told us he's already won yeah and that is such a powerful mindset to have and I think that people have listened or watched that conversation can take an awful lot from that from being comfortable in your own skin where you're at it almost it insulates you from the rest of the world and the things that happen to you.

1:02:17Yeah, but I think if anyone's listening to that thinking, well, what can I do with that? Remember, this is about the learned experiences of some of the planet's highest performers. I think there's something there about being a daydreamer, but daydreaming with a purpose. I think what Francis described was the power of cognitive dissonance, which says that your brain can't cope with having two conflicting thoughts. So you had the reality of working in the sand mines and the dream of having a better life elsewhere and what was really interesting to me was at the age of 22 how uncomfortable his life had been because he had these two conflicting thoughts and he had to make a decision i either dial down the vividness of my dream and accept my reality or i walk away from reality and go after my dream and i think there's something really powerful for all of us there of it doesn't matter where you're from it's where you want to get to and colouring that in in technicolour is powerful that any of us can do for whatever our dreams are what an uh an amazing man an amazing story and i think that so much of his incredible story is yet to be written what a pleasure that was yeah absolutely brilliant what an incredible conversation um thank you so much to francis for giving up his time so this was recorded just before he did a press conference ahead of the aj fight he was being pulled in a million different directions, but he still found time to sit down and share so much with us.

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