How I Rebuilt After Losing Three Limbs: Army Veteran Josh Boggi (E438)

0:03New Year's Eve 2010, we were getting ready to go out on a dawn patrol, threatening Afghanistan at that point. It had gone more from sort of conventional war fighting. You shoot us, we shoot back.

0:17To IED's guerrilla tactics, putting stuff in the ground. I took a step to my right. Boom. My world was literally ripped out from underneath me. Next thing I know, I'm in midair, everything slows down, and then you land with a thud and it's like, can't breathe, ears are ringing, dust in your eyes. I didn't realise it was me that had been injured. I woke up in Birmingham a week later. Yes, this has happened, but I'm not going to let that define me.

0:51Well, Josh, welcome to High Performance. Thank you for having me. Good to meet you both. And you. So let's rewind the clock, if we can, which I'm sure in your head you've done many, many times over the years. New Year's Eve 2010, you're 10 days into a delayed deployment and this is six weeks after the birth of your son. 10 days after he was born, I was back in Afghanistan on my third tour. Yeah, New Year's Eve 2010, we were getting ready to go out on a dawn patrol. Our job was to support the Irish Guards. We'd sort of plan to walk a mile down the road, take over a compound, leave some guardsmen in there so they could fight the Taliban, keep them occupied.

1:27so the local village as such could just get on with its daily life. I remember the morning of, you're all going through your drills, putting helmets on, magazines or weapons, cocking, making sure everything's ready, checking each other over, and just going through those normal, mundane skills and drills that you've been taught from basic training to where you find yourself today. You remember it all. I can remember it vividly. I think it's because it's programmed into your mind, like I'm going to do this, this, this, and you've sort of got a routine for getting your own kit ready, etc. and then yeah the order comes over the radio we're stepping off out the back gate and my job at that point we were we were as part of a Royal Engineers search team so the threat from threat in Afghanistan at that point had gone more from sort of conventional war fighting you shoot us we shoot back to IEDs guerrilla tactics putting stuff in the ground so or it would lead to you would be shot at and you would naturally want to find cover so you would jump in a ditch for instance and there would be an IED in there so yeah so the So my job was just following the guy in front of me.

2:30And the guy at the front of the patrol, a guy called Lammy Manny, he had a metal detector. He was walking along about 10 minutes into the patrol. Unfortunately, he stepped on an improvised explosive device. I can vividly remember the dust cloud coming out of the ground. And instantly you knew what needed to happen. My job then and our team's job was to clear a helicopter landing site because at that point in Afghanistan, you had something called the golden hour. If you could get someone from point of injury to a hospital within an hour, I think it was 94, 95 % chance of survival. So the calls are going back to Camp Bastion.

3:03The medics are treating. We're cleared the helicopter landing site. The Chinook comes in. He gets thrown on the back. He's gone. We carry on. Our role that day was clearing the compounds. Is that not a complete mindset shift for you that you've just seen one of your good buddies and one of your comrades blown up and has gone on a helicopter?

3:21Josh Boggi: We weren't. I mean, I knew him before, but we weren't good buddies. we became good buddies post injury and recovering together. But at the time it's like, excuse my French, but shit, right. Shit, it's the fan guys been injured. And you just kick into that, right? Before, before going on a, on a patrol, there'll be a set of orders coming through and actions on, I don't know, IED strike injury, engineer section, nuclear, helicopter, so instantly you kicked into, I need to do this to enable him to be Kasywak back to Camp Bastion. And then once he's gone, that mind shift is the, the mindset shift was just, he's gone, right, I need to now focus on what I'm doing, on the guys that I'm working with, on the task at hand.

4:02And we went straight into it. My role that day was mouse holding. So putting an explosive charge on the side of a wall, not like a wall in the UK. These things are like three foot fixed. So we're using anti-tank mines with plastic explosive sort of mine tape to them, blowing them because we're avoiding doorways because they're vulnerable points. That's likely where the IED is going to be put when you're funneled into something. So I remember I've blown a hole and I've turned around and I've looked at the floor and all the, we sprayed white lines on the floor or any color lines to mark a safe lane, a proven route.

4:35And they were all gone. And I remember looking over and calling one of the lads back, back to me. And I took my tin of spray pan out. I took a step to my right. Boom. My world was literally ripped out from underneath me. I had knelt next to it. I was a feet, two to three feet away from it. I'd put a half a bar mine on a wall. I'd blown a hole. My threat level had gone from up there to down here. I've walked over this ground, took a step to my right and bang. Next thing I know, I'm in midair. Everything slows down. And then you land with a thud and it's like, can't breathe. Ears are ringing, dust in your eyes.

5:11I was in no pain whatsoever. I didn't realise it was me that had been injured. I was just like trying to get up and work out what's going on. and it wasn't until two of my teammates literally jumped in the ditch. I couldn't see, but I could hear what they were doing. I started to come around a bit and they started putting tourniquets on my legs. Now, for those who don't know a tourniquet, imagine taking your belt off and getting it around someone's leg and pulling it tight. To stop the bleeding. To stop the bleeding. I'd lost both my legs. I didn't know at the time my right leg had been stripped when my right leg was gone from the knee down.

5:45My left leg had been stripped of flesh from my boot to my knee. The boot was still on there apparently. And yeah, my two good mates putting tourniquets on my legs. But as I said, I wasn't in any pain. I was like, as you start to come around, it's like, right, okay, I'm in trouble. I know that something's gone wrong. And I remember a mate of mine, Stu was working on my left leg. And I was like, Stu, Stu, fuck my legs. Are my bollocks still there? And I remember him putting his hand straight down my trousers and going, yes, mate, you're still as small as ever. And I was like, brilliant. Okay, but again, I guess it's fight or flight.

6:21That adrenaline kicking in, the shock, the adrenaline, the right, I need to fight, I need to fight. And then my team commander, Gaz, had come running around and he's putting a tourniquet on my arm. My hand was still there. Radius was still there, but my ulna was gone. So, I mean, the surgeons, by the time I got back to the hospital, tried saving it, but it was irreparable, so they sort of cut me off where they had to. But again, lying there, no pain whatsoever. The only pain came was as they were taking me back through the mouse hole I'd made, they dropped the stretcher and I landed on my arm.

6:53But again, you can't fault any of the guys. They saved my life. And I remember lying there. The medic kept coming over to me asking for my zap number just to keep me coherent, gave me a bit of morphine. I think I told the medic to leave me alone. The boys were looking after me. And then, yeah, I heard it. I heard that Chinook, that defining sound of the double rated blade helicopter. Even now, if I'm at home, I look out the window, I hear one. and I remember the minute I heard that I knew I was going to be okay I knew I was alive I was going to get put on that helicopter and again the minute I heard it it was like a pain instantly like the shock and the adrenaline wore off and it was just pure pain the lads I remember it flew over the top I looked at the belly of the Chinook it landed behind me the lads ran me on the back put me on there and I remember vividly shouted airborne to the boys so they knew I was alright and then it was like a scene from a movie like you cut to like a black screen just a doctor's face in your face and there was a doctor a helmet head talking to me and I just remember saying it's really fucking hurting now just knocked me out just knocked me out big needle came out went in my chest induced coma and I woke up in Birmingham a week later stay where you are because in a moment Josh is going to explain to us what happened during his rehab when he was back in the UK We'll be right back after a quick word from our partners.

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10:08Whether you're starting something new or looking for a better way to run the business you already have, Square gives you the tools to take payments, manage your day-to-day, and keep growing. And right now, you can get up to$200 off Square hardware at square.com slash go slash HPP. That's S-Q-U-A-R-E dot com slash G-O slash H-P-P. Run your business your way with Square. Get started today. I think it was a priest at the end of the bed, the military padre that was there. I just remember seeing the little collar. Yeah. I'm thinking, wow, I'm in heaven. No, I wasn't. Next time I woke up was to a nurse doing a functions test on your genitals to make sure they all still work, which would have been great.

10:55but he was probably 40 years old, bald and pulling a rubber glove on. And it's like, you scream, you've got no idea where you are. Third time you wake up, you're just trying to find your rifle. You've gone from the desert, 24 years old fit, to what am I now in this bed? You think you're trying to find your rifle? In my head, I've gone from the desert to where am I now? I didn't have a clue where I was. And this is, I mean, you're in a ketamine-fueled haze to keep the pain under control. I mean, at one point I thought I was on the Millennium Falcon and there were Jedis fighting. At another point, my whole team was stood at the end of my bed just shaking their heads at me in disappointment.

11:31It was terrifying. But yeah, I mean, I spent a week in intensive care and then I finally got out and on the way from leaving intensive care, one of my first real memories is my now ex-partner bringing my son. And I wasn't allowed to touch him, but he was there. And I vividly remember then being wheeled from intensive care up into the normal ward that night. So your son would have been two weeks old. No, he was, sorry, he was two and a half months by this point. But she had him in the car seat. And yeah, I remember then going up to the normal ward, Ward 412 in Birmingham, and having a dream that night that my Sergeant Major had come to the end of my bed and told me to follow him.

12:10So I sat up somehow, crawled to the end of the bed, fell out, knocked myself out, opened my arm up, back in surgery the next day. I was in a deep, dark place. I was completely lost. but I ended up spending six weeks in hospital in Birmingham and as the drug load comes down as in the pain meds the induced coma meds everything's coming down you're starting to become a little bit more coherent and you're starting to come around to the new reality that you find yourself in that brings a fear right?

12:41Josh Boggi: it does and it's a who am I now? like moments change lives I didn't choose to step on this IED I didn't it's happened yeah and on the moments changed lives about two weeks after after the IED and a week after intensive week in intensive care and a week on the normal ward finally managed to get from the bed into a wheelchair and go into the toilet and go for the first time in two weeks and it's an amazing feeling I mean it was painful but wow I've just been to the loo this is an achievement in itself all these little margins little steps but as I'm trying to transfer from the toilet back onto the wheelchair I slipped stumps newly amputated stumps straight onto the floor pain like instant whiteness in your face I've never felt pain like it and I just remember I managed to pull some boxes on before pulling the orange cord for help and the nurses came around and you're just lying there in a fetal position on the floor just like who am I now I've gone from this 24 year old fit engineer airborne soldier to this mess on the floor of a bathroom in Birmingham.

13:50But moments change lives. And the next day in bed, a paratrooper walked past my room. I remember seeing the marine t-shirt. I remember seeing the prosthetic legs. And I nearly fell out the bed pulling the orange cord for the nurse to get him

14:03Josh Boggi: to come back and talk to me. And he did. He came in and just sat in front of me. He was a triple amputee as well. Two legs missing. His left arm missing. And he showed me how the legs worked. And he showed me how the arm worked. And it was literally a, that is it. That is who I need to be. that acceptance moment I accepted in an instant that my legs were gone my arm was gone there's nothing I can do about it now I'm not going to sit here and feel sorry for myself anymore I need to get to where he is how do I do that and that that acceptance moment was the moment I then started to get out of bed a bit more go to physio just trying to do a little stretching did he say stuff to you that soldier as well as well as you just seeing that he was physically the same as you now he gave me no sympathy whatsoever he took the piss out of me but that's what you need in that situation that come on mate stop feeling sorry for yourself up you get um everyone's different and you react differently to different people but that moment was what i needed i didn't need sympathy i didn't need people feel sorry for me telling me it's going to be all right i needed to see where i needed to get to and that was what that moment was that moment where you're flying through the air when you've stepped on the ied reminds me of the psychiatrist gordon turnbull wrote a book on this called trauma where some people get trapped in that moment of where their life is irrevocably changed and you seem to remember it with real clarity I'm wondering of how often you've gone back to that moment the second one is I'm merely taken with your desire to pull your boxes on at that moment so you're still trying to keep some dignity at what sounds like a pretty bleak moment in your life I'm interested if you just tell us a little bit more about both of those I guess in that moment I just felt like that was the right thing to do before asking for help I don't know

15:50Josh Boggi: yeah I guess it was more embarrassment of just being on the floor being as naked as the day you're born and maybe just trying to get some dignity back never really thought about it like that I just put my boxes on but in that moment I don't know I guess it's just maybe just wanting to have a bit of dignity but in the air it was like as the IED went off it was uh i've i've crashed one or two cars but you know when you're gonna hurt yourself time slows down yeah yeah it was that moment like when you're in the air it felt like an eternity and then the minute i landed with a thud and it was like time went back to normal if not sped up um but going back to it as in rethinking about it i never really i sat down with the with the boys my team after after the event when i was back in the uk when i was out of hospital etc etc and we all spoke about in my head I thought I've made a mistake but then when you speak to your team it was like no we just the metal detector didn't find it it was just an accident and that cleared it up a lot because that to me though sounds like the moment where like there's a very distinct before and after in your life there's a before you step on the moment and after it and I'm wondering if that moment has allowed you to almost make that transition to grieving the person you were beforehand so that person who was 24 years old didn't think his life could get any better.

17:15Josh Boggi: Whereas as we go through this today, you'll see that I'm now up here, having died not once, but twice. So yeah, I don't think I've ever grieved that part of me. Do I miss the military? I don't really miss the uniform. I don't really miss the going away. I'm not going to say, there's some stuff you do in the military, you go, why are we doing this? The bullshit. But I do miss the lads and being part of a team and being part of that culture and that team environment. that's the only real thing I've missed about the military but then I've still got that in my life now as well where I'm still in contact with people I've got new groups of friends some of my best friends now are the people I recovered with post-injury so yeah but I'm still still me the old cliche I'm still me yeah I don't think part of me I'm still the same person as I was before I was injured one thing that's leapt out at me from the first very moving first 20 minutes of this conversation is two things the fact that when you first met up with your buddies you assumed you'd made a mistake and it was your fault and and that links to all of the guys when you were in that kind of like drug induced hay standing at the end of your bed shaking their heads at you as if to say you fucked up i think it's very interesting that you're out there fighting for your country doing the best you can dealing with extreme circumstances that very few people could cope with anyway and when you're on the receiving end of bad luck, your natural reaction was to kind of blame yourself.

18:43Josh Boggi: I think that's just human nature really, isn't it? I mean, yes, I did blame myself, but then having that conversation with the lads post, when the drug load had come down massively, I mean, that drug load, I remember sitting on my bed at Headley Court, which is the medical rehab centre we go to post Birmingham, where you get fit with prosthetics, etc. And you're round, people are in the same environment as you. I remember sitting on my bed one day and they're giving all the tablets and you're putting them into little pots and I swear I'm done with this. I don't need these in my life anymore. I'm not in pain.

19:13And I remember going to speak to the doctor and going, I don't want to take these anymore. You can't just come off them. I was like, watch me. And I warned the nurses and I cold turkey one weekend in Hedley Court where he just, I rang my ex-partner at the time and I'm not coming home. I just need to get off these drugs and just sat and shook coming off morphine and things like that. But I've never touched any pain meds other than a paracemal since. But the reason for that was because I wanted to be clear-headed, maybe because there was a doubt in my mind. But then when you sit down with the lads and you go through,

19:46Josh Boggi: you try and piece together what happened, if anything did go wrong, and then from speaking to them, it was just like, mate, it's just bad luck. We'd all walk around it. Like I said, I'd knelt next to it, and I'd put a nine kilogram charge of explosives on the wall and set that off. And it's just bad luck that I took a step to my right and stood on an improvised explosive device. And how much time did you spend questioning why that bad luck came your way? It was more sort of feeling sorry for yourself a little bit. It's like the first two weeks in hospital where you're sort of sitting there feeling sorry for yourself.

20:18Josh Boggi: But then when you have that moment where like the guy walks past my room, that was it. When I was speaking to the lads, that was it. Cool, that's done. Move on. What is the date that we're sitting in this hospital bed? This is 2011 by now. So February 2011, I was discharged from hospital. And that seems fast, doesn't it? Yeah, so six weeks I spent in hospital and then I was allowed to go and live. I couldn't actually go home because I had a flat at the time. I couldn't get up the stairs. So they made my dad's living room, put a hospital bed in there so I could stay there for a little bit. And then sort of seven weeks after injury, I find myself in the audience on Top Gear.

20:56Josh Boggi: I only bring it up because we spoke about it earlier in the Andy Willman episode. And I was thinking, God, I've been trying to get on this show for years, is lose a few limbs and you're in the audience straight away. But no, that was from doing that and then Topgrip straight into Headley Court of Military Rehab where I couldn't have asked for anything more. You're there, you're surrounded by people who are in the same situation as you, some further down the line so you can see where you need to get to. Everyone's pushing everyone else to be better. I mean, it was just the perfect environment to go to post-injury for me.

21:29Well, describe that to us because I'm interested in, you've spoke about that paratrooper walked past your desk, he gave you no sympathy. Your mates, when you're lying on the floor, have sort of made a joke about the size of your manhood. And you've said, that's exactly what I needed. It wasn't a joke, it was just an accurate reflection on the size of his man. I'm going to just, yeah, it was a joke. It was a joke, it was a joke. But you used that phrase, that was exactly what I needed. You've just described Hedley Courts as that. Describe what is exactly what you need.

21:58Josh Boggi: So for me, it was, I've gone from, like I said, I've gone from the desert, 24, masculine, doing the job I love. It's a war. You've gone from war to then a hospital bed to then finding yourself in a hospital, in a recovery centre that's full of people walking around with prosthetic legs or arms missing or bullet wounds or one guy walking around with half his head missing sort of thing. And do you know what? There is no sympathy there because you might feel sorry for yourself. Yeah, I've lost three limbs. Poor me. then you look up and there's a guy walking around with a boxers thing on because he's he's been hitting the head with a bullet and you go wow i'm lucky i am lucky to still be alive i shouldn't be alive and maybe there's an element of that as well that that's not survivor guilt but that unequivocal say i should not be alive if this would have happened to me two or three years before i wouldn't be alive but medical advancement has meant i am alive and you know what i'm not going to sit here and feel sorry for myself because i can see that guy doing it i can see that guy doing it.

22:55I can see that guy doing it. And do you know what? You start making friends there. And when I was learning to walk, I was paired off with a guy called Dave Henson, who's a great mate of mine now, Paralympian. When you're learning to walk, we're learning on

23:08Josh Boggi: the same legs. You're walking up and down the ramp. If I could do it and he couldn't, it would drive him crazy. But then likewise, if you're trying to pick something off the floor and he does it easy and I can't, and it's a competitive nature of it as well. You don't want to be the one sat in your wheelchair. To me, a wheelchair was a set of handcuffs. I'm not Josh in that wheelchair. I'm Josh standing up walking on prosthetics. But then, if I'm being honest, I tried doing it too quickly, didn't listen to doctors. Well, the doctors know what they're on about, or physios or ERIs or whatever. And I ended up putting myself back in hospital where I tried doing too much too quickly.

23:45And that was a sort of a grounding moment as such where, right, let's calm down. This is a long road ahead. So you were a man in a hurry at this point. come off the meds get out of hospital yeah yeah I'd agree with that yeah and maybe that is a detriment to the environment I found myself in where people are so far ahead of you and you want to be like that but I wouldn't have changed it yes that was the again I've gone from 24 years old to rock bottom to falling off the toilet to now building my life back up and I want to get there quickly my son's being able to walk now I want to do things with him I want to lead a normal life I want to learn to drive sort a house out etc I want to just enjoy myself I've died.

24:24I want to go and watch Kasabian at the O2. I want to go and watch Portsmouth again. I want to go and do things like this. And do you know what? I'm happy to be alive. You're also eating too much. You're drinking too much. I found myself a year or two after injury looking in the mirror and going, you fat bastard. Where I'd gone from 24 years old with a purpose to my purpose now is just being happy to be alive and being a dad to my son. And I'd found myself, I'd stagnated. I'd stagnated. I needed a challenge in my life. And that challenge, there was something missing. And that challenge, and that something missing, that challenge was sport.

25:01I'd gone from being fit, active, loved running, didn't really go to the gym, played football at a decent level, to just existing. You've had, you know, these catastrophic injuries. So for some people, just moving, walking, and living would be enough. And then when I look at your sort of biography, after you were able to move again and you'd kind of physically recovered. You didn't just rebuild your life where it was. You're now an Invictus Games competitor. You've done a 3 ,000 mile hand cycle across America. That wasn't all on my own. Just put it in there so the boys, if they're listening, it wasn't just me.

25:39No, you're not trying to take all the credit. You've done a tandem skydive next to Everest. You're the first triple amputee rescue diver in the history of the world. and then we'll talk about the crash in Mallorca in a moment. But what I'm sort of interested in is when you decided that just living, you were grateful to be alive, but then there was a moment where just living wasn't going to be enough. It had to be fully embracing every part of life. And maybe when you first started being competitive, what was that first bit of competition and how did it feel?

26:11Josh Boggi: Great question. And it comes down to that look in the mirror moment. Again, moments change lives. Yes, moments do change lives, but we always have choices and choices define who we become. So for me, I looked in the mirror and went, wow, you fat bastard. And I look back at pictures now and I go, wow, you let yourself go a bit. But you didn't. You were recovering. You were building yourself back up again. You were sorting your life out. You were starting a new relationship. You were trying to make sure your son was all right. Yeah, there was something missing and it comes on to sport and challenge.

26:44Josh Boggi: And I've always been a bit of an adrenaline junkie. I just think it's just in my nature. But I remember speaking to one of my old exercise rehab instructors and I was like, I need a challenge. I've looked in the mirror. I need to lose some weight. I need to sort my life out. Not in a way like I wasn't happy with my life, but I just needed a challenge. I needed someone to dangle a carrot in front of me to go, that's what I want to do. A bit like the guy walking past me on the prosthetics. I'd sort of lost. That was my challenge to get to where I was. I'm there now what next and that came from getting on a hand cycle for the first time like I he took me to the new forest uh and I got on one of these bikes and I did like 20 miles went boom happy days I've got this it's easy what challenges have we got coming up and it was a Paris to London charity bike ride um signed up for it first day was meant to be 70 miles but the guy reading the map was clearly a next officer and got us lost so we ended up doing 100 but the end of the first day I was like oh my god what have I done here I was like physically exhausted riding the hand cycle using your arms instead of your legs you're lying flat on the road um so you're smaller muscle group heavier bike but I don't know it's just that get up the next day get on your bike so then how like like to me I'm trying to empathize and I'm thinking I'd feel like a little bit of panic or a sense of overwhelm you know when somebody's read a map wrongly and I did 30 miles on top of what already sounds quite strenuous.

28:14How do you mentally cope with that to be able to, as you say, get up the next morning and just crack on with it?

28:20Josh Boggi: I mean, I was at the time, I was not best pleased, let's put it that way, and the language is probably a bit colourful for me to say into this microphone, but what do you do? The next morning you wake up, they're all going to ride off whatever. Do I want to sit in this hotel and then work out how I get to Paris? No, I'm going to get on my bike and I'm going to stay with a pack and stay with a team and we're going to get to the next hotel and to the next hotel and then next thing you know, you find yourself on horse guards in London and you go, wow, I've done it. And I remember it was a moment.

28:47Josh Boggi: It was like Steve Redgrave after his fourth goal. If anyone sees me in his boat again, they have my permission to shoot me. I said that about the bike. I got home, I threw it in the garage and I went, I'm done with that. I found myself in London two weeks later though, watching two friends I'd made at Headley Court, amputees racing their hand cycles around London in Ride London when the event used to happen. And I couldn't believe the amount of people there. And this is off the back of obviously London 2012. and again it was one of the moments you go that's what I want to do so I got home I mean we went and had a good night that night got home bike came out started working with a coach properly so started working on nutrition stopping booze um a training plan and you know what you start your head becomes clearer you've got a goal a challenge to train towards and that led me to the Invictus Games in London in 2014.

29:38Josh Boggi: I mean, yeah, the Invictus Games, it's an international multi-sport event for wounded injured and sick service personnel from around the globe. It's up to 26 nations now. But when I first heard about it, my wife told me about it. I said, I don't want to do that because it's a big sports day to go and hug an injured soldier, isn't it? I don't want pity. And I didn't want to do it. And it was actually my wife, girlfriend at the time, now wife, that said, you've got to go and do this. You have to go and do it. Look what you're doing. You're training. You've got to go and do it. And I was like, okay.

30:10She convinced me to do it. And then trained a bit for it. I wasn't fully committed to riding the bike. I still enjoy myself a bit too much away from the bike. But went into London and the next thing I know, I'm in the garden of the American Embassy watching the Foo Fighters play to 500 people. And you go, this is kind of a big deal, actually. Okay, this is bigger than I thought it was going to be. and then the next day we were at the Lee Valley Athletic Centre

30:34Josh Boggi: and there was thousands of people watching injured service run around the track. And then my event was cycling and there were thousands of people at the Velo Park in London and you go, this is fantastic, this is great. And I went into my event, I was doing the time trial and a road race on my bike. Time trial, I came away winning a bronze medal and I thought, oh my God, this is amazing. And then the road race, I got absolutely destroyed by a Frenchman and two Americans. losing to a Frenchman affected me massively being a proud Englishman but yeah it was great I'd won a medal I enjoyed myself but when you came back after the games in London I sat down and assessed with my coach how I'd done in the time trial it was only a short time trial but the Frenchman had beat me by over a minute and he'd lapped me in the road race and he was a Scotsman and he knew how much me as an Englishman didn't want to lose to a Frenchman and he found the hook that got me to go, right, okay, well, what do we need to do to make this bike go faster?

31:33And it was, again, one of those moments you go, right, that's what I'm doing now. That needs to stop. That needs to stop. Have a conversation with my girlfriend. I need to commit to this. And I did. I took myself away from distractions.

31:44Josh Boggi: I drove out to Mallorca and spent four months out there and just rode my bike, watched what I ate, came off, didn't drink. And do you know what? Funnily enough, my head's clearer. You can see the bike's going faster. My times are getting better. My body weight's dropping. and I went into the second my second of it's games in Orlando looked at the start sheet and there he is the Frenchman's there he's having it Savignon Blanc if you know what I mean he's having it and a time trial I've heard of him yeah Pinot Noir full Del Boy wouldn't it Chateau Neuf de Pap but yeah he's on the start sheet I have worked my nuts off to get here I'm going to go and destroy him and I absolutely buried myself in the time trial and I came second he beat me by two seconds but it showed by putting the work in I've closed that gap massively and then we went into the road race neck and neck into the final corner and I've gone to sprint but where it's so hot in Orlando and this is not trying to make an excuse my prosthetic arm actually came loose so I couldn't put any power down with my right arm so he ended up beating me in the sprint but again it showed that I closed that gap We'll be right back after a quick word from our partners What if the real question isn't where you're going but the adventures you experience along the way.

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35:22Ticket-inclusive packages offer a range of prime seating and lounge access options, venue-dependent priority entry, food and beverage selections from LA's diverse dining scene and elevated service and continuous support, making your day at the Olympic Games one to remember for a lifetime. Get ahead of the curve with an LA28 hospitality package. Discover more at hospitality.la28.org forward slash highperformance. I think this is a very interesting part of your story, actually, because it's like the classic hero's journey story until this point. You know, you're a hero, right? You're a military soldier.

36:00You have this huge injury. But then the road to recovery so far has just been, I saw this person got inspired. I did this and did it well. And it's been good, good, good, good all the way. But the reality is you're still having to fight every single day. Like a really good example, which I'll tell people about when we arrived, I escorted you to the toilet, all part of the high-performance service. And I just said to Josh when he walked in, I said, there if you want to stand and around there if you want to sit down. And he said, well, I'll go around there because there's a step. And, you know, I wouldn't even remember there's a step in the toilet next to the studio, yet for you it's part of what you're having to think about.

36:36Josh Boggi: There is definitely that, but I mean, I could have easily got up that step, but in my head I've obviously gone, if I slip off the step and fall over, before I'm about to come and do this. So the easy option is just to go around the corner and use that toilet. So the reason why I think this is interesting though is that, you know, you can just talk that everything was great, but you're still having to overcome hurdles that people like us are not even thinking about. I'm interested in, like the physical hurdle I'm sure is frustrating and we can talk about the arm on the bike because that is very hard for you because it's totally out of your control.

37:05You know, no matter what you do, you only have one arm, they have two. But what about the physical hurdles at this point? Were there still scars at this point from what you've been through, do you think?

37:16Josh Boggi: My body was healed. As in, I feel like I was in a good place. I'd need to have the odd surgery on my arm. I mean, when we go back to the arm, I was getting Botox in there at one point to try and stop the sweat because the arm was held on by a silicon liner. Like in Orlando, it filled up the sweat and it came off as I'm trying to race. And there's no more, you're just so demoralized because you've got to this point where you're like, I'm going to beat him. I am having this bloke on this corner. and then your arm comes off. And it's something completely out of your control. And it's not an excuse.

37:45Josh Boggi: It's just a problem that I face. But physically, though, I was in, at this point in life, 2017, I was in great shape. But it was things outside my control, like classification. When I started trying to get into the British cycling team, et cetera, I was told you're going to be this classification. You're going, boom. If I get into there, I am going to be top 10 in the world, easy. then they put you in a different one the classifiers and you go I've gone from there to not even nowhere near competing not being relevant and that was demoralizing and I think that came to a head when I got back from America and it was what now and did you have a dip at that point yeah massively I found myself at a crossroads like my family's over here I've put them off I've got job opportunities over there I've put them off other opportunities behind me put them off and there's bikes in front of me that I'm actually starting to resent now not because of the bike but because of things that are outside my control.

38:40So I made, I'm not going to lie,

38:43Josh Boggi: I went on a bit of a bender, I would say, where I'd not really drunk for a few years and I'm resenting this thing in front of me that I've built my life on, trying to make it go faster. And I found myself just going, do you know what, I'm done. I don't want to race my bike anymore. I want to use it to keep fit. But do you know what, I want to get on that bike. I want to go and ride around the valley. I don't want to look at a Garmin that says, I need to sit at 200 watts for 45 minutes to achieve this. I just want to go look at some cows in the field or go out with my son and ride around on the roads, etc.

39:13So, yes, to answer your question, there was definitely a bit of... Because we haven't spoken about depression at any point in this conversation. Has that ever been part of your story?

39:24Josh Boggi: I wouldn't say... I think there will be, as we come on to it a bit later, but at that point in life, it was more just a, right, this isn't going to happen. and I guess it was more of a, you're clinging on to, I'm going to try and do this, I'm going to try and do this, keep making this bike go faster. You are making it go faster. You're getting, you're getting fitter, you're getting stronger, but things out of your control are letting you down. That's where I got to. I've done this epic thing of cycling across America, but what can top that now? I'm not going to go to a Paralympics. It's that, that, that ship's a sail, unless I go and find a different sport.

40:00But, but you made a comment there where you spoke about, I've like, I'm a father, i'm starting a new relationship i put this job off and you're describing lots of things that for many of us see as real life you know you've almost like push real life away so you can go and pursue this uh the cycling what was going on in those other aspects of your life like we've met another another amputee uh steph reed who spoke about when she lost a leg she was advised that most parents would split up shortly afterwards or relationships crumble when an injury like this occurs in personal relationships or jobs often go by the by.

40:43We haven't really spoken about how real life was starting to encroach on you at this stage either.

40:50Josh Boggi: Yeah, I mean, I sort of maybe just not buried my head in the sand with real life, but that was my focus was riding that bike. And I mean, I've listened to pretty much every podcast you guys have done but all sportsmen say the same thing don't you that's my key driver that's what I need to achieve you've got to be quite selfish to try and get there um but I my wife was so understanding she pushed me to do it because she could see it's what I needed my son when I was giving him medals from races he I mean at the time I thought that was what he wanted um I was still present but my job was to try and ride the bike I guess I was in a fortunate position where I'd been medically discharged from the military at this point so I received a pension so I was financially stable not not I could afford to pay the mortgage and look after the family my wife works full time as well so we were fortunate in that position so there was never a financial constraint but I guess it was just my mindset was this is what I want to do this is why I'm going to do it and this is what I need to do to get there.

41:56But again, it's that moment. Like, right, you sit back and go, right, I've not wasted four years of my life. I've loved every minute of it, but it's that acceptance it isn't going to work. I'm not going to – the next step is to try and go to, I don't know, a World Championships, a Paralympics, wherever. It's not going to happen. So it's a, right, I need to move on. And by doing that, opened up other doors. So like going and doing – you mentioned the scuba diving. I got married and by making that decision allowed other doors to open and it brings me to where I find myself today

42:29Josh Boggi: It also took you to Mallorca This is, again, I mentioned earlier I just used the bike to keep fit now I wasn't bike fit as in I was just happy to be alive I was actually working again and myself and my wife we just went on a cycling holiday to Mallorca to do a lap of the island stop at different hotels I've spent by this point probably a year of my life out in Mallorca training on the bike on my own I think we're on day three or four and we're in the port of Polenza and I'm sat on my bike in the morning and I'm looking up at the mountains in the distance and on top of the mountain it's like it looks like a little golf ball from the port and sort of three hours of cycling and climbing up that mountain and not being as bike fit as it used to be it was hard work I was knackered we We stopped at the top by the petrol station for a bit of a coke and a cake.

43:20And then we carried on cycling. It was to go through the top of the mountain and drop down to the Port of Solaire. As you come around the corner, that little golf ball is now this huge radar dome on top of this mountain. I remember going through the top of the mountain. It's a tunnel and you just see the sea in front of you. And I'm like, boom, I'm done for the day. Ten mile descent and there's a beer. The girls were already shot down. Handbikes going up hills are so slow. with double the weight, smaller muscle group, but that weight helps on the descent. So I thought, I'm just going to enjoy this descent.

43:53Josh Boggi: I wasn't even going to push it. I'm just going to enjoy the descent down to the coast, have a beer, enjoy the hotel. For context, if I was going the other way back into the Port of Polenta, I've had just under 65 miles an hour going down there, bike on the edge, because I know the hill. I know where I can push it. I didn't know this hill. I'm descending, get about a kilometre and a half into it. I'm just easing the bike around the corners and I'm approaching the right-hand hairpin in the road. Move the bike out into the middle of the road and I start to apply my brakes. Squeeze on, squeeze on.

44:23I'm about to turn right. Pull my brakes on. Bang. My front tyre goes. Both my brakes on my hand cycle are on my front wheel. I've got a cliff in front of me and then a lorry coming around the hairpin. I cannot stop this bike. Like my Garmin says I was doing 30 miles an hour. And then it just shows a stop. I remember the lorry coming round and I remember seeing the axle turning underneath because I'm so low. And it was the first time in my life I went, I am dead. I am. I'm in the shit here. That was a conscious thought. Conscious thought. And genuinely my life flashed in front of my eyes. And I accepted I was going to die.

45:11the next thing I know I remember the impact into the lorry as well and then the next thing I know I'm looking up at a clear blue sky I'm still connected into my bike and you go into fuck I'm alive and I remember instant pain and I unclip from the bike and I don't remember this but thankfully I had friends with me descending the mountain two ex-military colleagues as well not colleagues, but people I've met since being injured. And one of the guys who was with me just said, I sat up and went, fuck! And I've gone into full body, checking this arm. It's not broken. I checked my left arm. I've not broken it.

45:51It's my only remaining limb. I've had a happy day. Look down this. Nothing's happened here. And he said, I looked at my left leg and I just picked it up and there was just blood spurting out the end of it. I'd severed an artery again. I was in the shit. thankfully I had friends with me and David who I don't think he'll mind me mentioning it he was injured in Afghanistan as well he just threw his bike in a bush ran over took his cycling jersey and rang it out like a wet towel got it round my leg made a tourniquet as quickly as he could I knew I was in trouble there's no helicopter coming here Afghanistan you knew there's a helicopter coming instantly I'm on the top of a mountain in in Mallorca.

46:35Traffic is chaos. There's an old boy getting a blanket out

46:40Josh Boggi: of his car behind me to give me some decency. And a British anesthetist actually stopped on his bike with his wife and was like, I'm a doctor, can I help? And he gave me some, I think it was ibuprofen or paracetamol, but it was just that placebo effect of giving some pain meds. And it was completely different from Afghan, no pain, instant pain. I just remember drifting in and out of consciousness, thinking I was going to die on the side of that mountain. David and Alan who was there as well were just talking to me put my helmet under my leg to try and raise it yeah I don't know it just it seemed like an eternity but I remember hearing the ambulance siren and thinking I'm going to be alright a bit like the Chinook but that ambulance is at the bottom of a mountain and it's got to take 20 minutes to drive up it and I could just hear it hear it and I just thought I'm going to die on this mountain I'm going to die on this mountain and then it pulled up and they jumped out the back and David said they went to just run off into the woods to try and find the rest of me because they met with a triple amputee lying on the floor with no limbs on and he was like no no no no he was already an amputee and they gave me some pain meds put a proper tour and a K on and then swiftly drove down the mountain and straight into the hospital with Sonaspas I remember getting to the hospital I remember getting they wouldn't treat me until I had my passport for some reason and thankfully as I'd crashed I was like my passport's in the back of my bike and one of the lads grabbed it gave it to him and I was straight into an MRI scanner and I woke up that evening to my wife stood next to me having had five inches of bone amputated and she said to me do not move you cannot move you've snapped your hip you've snapped your femur in the neck of your femur it's held together with by one percent of what it is at the moment do not if you move you're going to lose your stump at the hip right okay don't move they had to get me stable to take me then back into surgery two days later um so you couldn't move for those two days couldn't move told do not move and under no circumstances move and i remember going back into surgery for the the second set where they would pull my stump down and bolt my femur neck back together and i was terrified no one spoke any english it felt like i was going into a bit of a medieval torture chamber and I didn't think I'd come out of that surgery alive but I did I came out they managed to save my hip so I've got a stump seal a stump still yeah try and say that really quickly and yeah I spent two more days in intensive care to be met with you go home from a from a Spanish intensive care nurse and I thought brilliant I'm going home I'm going back to the UK I'm alive I'm going home my surgeon in the UK is ready for me Miss Crick who is words cannot describe how much affection I have for that woman and they just sent me to a normal ward and I stayed there for six days my haemoglobin level your blood cells kept dropping so I wasn't fit enough to fly home and this happened for four or five days and I could feel myself something's not right here something's not right here and I was falling off a cliff and it actually took my surgeon Miss Crick calling the insurance company and going you've got 24 hours to get him home.

49:55She knew what was going on. My wife had said the end of his stomach is black. Sepsis. So eventually this German crew showed up at the airport and I was like, I'm safe, I'm going home. I just wanted to get back to the UK. That was my focus. My wife, God bless her. God knows what I must have put her through. But as we're leaving the hospital, the room, the orange room that I've been in for six days, I haven't been able to leave a nurse came in and went no fly too low sorry that's my best Spanish impression his blood too low and this thank god for this German anesthetist he was like I have blood we are taking him I think that that just lifted me they got me back to the UK I mean at one point with the ketamine they were putting into me I thought I was flying the plane that just to give you a light where your head's at I was all over the place got me into Salisbury Hospital or Miss Crick was there waiting for me, my saviour.

50:54She, I wasn't, they needed to match my blood that evening because I'd had 11 units of blood in Spain. I'd gone from Josh to Jose. They needed to be sure to match my blood in case anything went wrong the next day. So thank God they did because Sunday morning, went into surgery, Miss Crick opened my leg up and I pretty much died of septic shock on her operating table. And the three units of blood they had needed to be pumped into me. So that three-hour simple surgery ended up being 12 hours. And I woke up thinking I'd been at an England-Scotland game all day. I had no idea that I'd literally passed away on my surgeon's operating table.

51:34Right. Blimey.

51:37Josh Boggi: Yeah, and then that was the start of another 10-week stay in hospital. And I never thought I'd get out. There's an absence in this second example that was very present in the way you described your experience at Headley Court, which was a gratitude for just being alive. Did you still feel that or was it something different on the second occasion? There definitely was a gratitude for being alive. At no point did I go, I shouldn't be here for this one. But I don't know, that question, I don't really know how to answer that. I definitely was happy to be alive. Let's go with that one. But the reason I ask is when you describe that moment where you could see the chassis of that lovier that you're about to go under.

52:17And you've said, like, you seem to have made an acceptance that this is it for me. And I'm interested in what, like, what was it that had allowed you to respond to that moment with such sort of equanimity?

52:33Josh Boggi: As in in the moment? Yeah. I guess because there was nothing I could do about it. It was out of my control. Yeah. I'm hurtling towards a lorry at 30 miles an hour on a bike what else am I going to do there's nothing I can do yeah which I I'm I'm on a bike I can't jump off I can't stick my elbows in the wheels I can't but have you ever gone back to that moment like you've said like this idea I definitely went back to that moment when you talked about mental afterwards I thought again have I done something wrong that initial did I not break properly did I not do anything right but thankfully having David and Alan with me and speaking to them and speaking openly about it it was just you're tired blue mate you weren't going too fast like I said if I was going the other way back into Pulitzer I was doing 65 miles an hour down that mountain I was probably doing 30 on this because I didn't know the hill so I was being cautious I think there's something really powerful about this this idea that you've leaned into like traumatic experiences you know rather than deny it or try and delete it from the memory.

53:40I'm quite taken with the idea that you've leaned into it on each occasion to go and explore it and look at your role in it or what you could have done differently. What does that give you? Because there'll be lots of listeners to this that are facing maybe not anything as extreme as that, but they have sort of traumatic experiences that they've almost tried to push away rather than to step into.

54:04Josh Boggi: For me, it's not closure, but acceptance like you've been through you've played it out you've spoken to people who were there and you can come away going that is exactly what happened whereas if you're not sure you're going to doubt yourself in your mind and play it it'll play and the old snowball effect could have done this could have done this did this happen did that happen but sitting down and discussing it it's like after Afghan with my team and then after the bike crash with David and Alan it was closure's not the right word but it's it's a sort of acceptance moment do you know what it was just bad luck whether it was a bit of flint in your tyre whether you went over a pin in the road you don't know but I'm still here so there yes I am grateful I did have I'm not saying PTSD but post crash there was definitely that doubt in my mind and why are you keen to say it wasn't depression it wasn't PTSD it was just doubt because you could have been depressed you're probably right and it's okay to be depressed and it's okay to have PTSD like these are very real things that would be the most normal reaction for the human brain and i've never i you've you know i i have been depressed but it wasn't for any of those like instances this is like a few years ago um i didn't know i was depressed i don't know i was unhappy not unhappy at home but just things in life weren't quite going the right way um maybe i wasn't happy at work maybe i don't know but maybe these small little things add up to you becoming grouchy at home and things like that.

55:37Josh Boggi: And it was actually listening to one of your podcasts, Mark Cavendish. Really? When he spoke about depression. Which is when he spoke about little things like Peter's breathing or the way she was walking would make him so angry. And then, you know what? It's so interesting this. And it gives me goosebumps thinking about it because that conversation has led to more men reaching out and DMing me or messaging me saying, I had no idea I was depressed till I heard that conversation because I didn't know what depression was I actually reached out to Mark afterwards I've been fortunate enough to meet him a few times at cycling events things in the past and I had a quick conversation with him and still check in with him every now and again Did you tell him?

56:14Yeah

56:14Josh Boggi: and I've never opened big roughy toughy I'm not gonna speak about this but yeah I reached out to him and just having that simple conversation it made me realise right okay maybe it's just small things but what do I do now do I let that small thing I'm not saying my wife's breath annoys me as much as Peter's annoys Mark but how do we deal with that let's deal with that and then that'll lead you to dealing with the next thing and the next thing how did you deal with it did you have therapy the therapy was speaking to Mark and opening up and then it was again listening to Bradley Wiggins who I've been fortunate to meet when he's self I can't think of a word yeah self-diagnosed himself and these are my problems yes I could go and speak to someone that probably will help but how do I overcome the issue in front of me well I need to face it it's the same as anything go back to the military there's an issue in front of you there we're going to work as a team to overcome that on the bike overcome this diving becoming you mentioned earlier scuba diving when I was doing that it was like this is how able-bodied people do it you need to hit that crack on right that's my problem to overcome how am I going to get an unresponsive diver from the bottom of the ocean up onto that boat and then start going into resuscitation right okay let's work through the problem step by step by step and it is that step by step process that then gets you to to where i've got him on the boat and you've passed the test if you could have this whole journey all over again and you could not step to to one side and stand on that ied and you have a very different story going forwards where do you sit now is that a question of sort of regret you're asking there it's more a question of if you had your time again would you want this to be your story um yes where i am now i wouldn't have been where i am now and in the role i am i'm doing for for a job etc and the things i've done with my life if i hadn't have stepped on that ied but i won't let that ied define who i am and yes i walk around on prosthetics yes i've got a prosthetic arm but i still try and lead the most normal in quotes life as i possibly can it's not normal but I'll try and make it as normal as I can not just for me for my family for my son for my little girl there's things I can't do that I used to do play football okay I can't play football but I can coach it so I can use my voice and my experience to I used to coach my son's football team my role at Invictus now I've competed in the games and I've seen what the power of sport is in recovery and rehabilitation so within my role now working in nations around the globe 26 of them like Ukraine where there is a great need what can my experiences now shape programs to get sports recovery introduced early into veterans and service personnel's recovery journeys so no I wouldn't change it at all there's also um a lovely kind of cyclical element to your story as well you are as you mentioned now working for the Invictus Games Foundation helping to change the lives of thousands of people and the games is soon going to be in Birmingham and of course as you said at the very beginning after that moment happened in Afghanistan, the next thing you remember is waking up in Birmingham.

59:24So I think that's going to be a significant Invictus Games for you from a personal perspective.

59:30Josh Boggi: Absolutely. I competed the first games. It's been seven since. I hope I got that right because I'll probably get told off by the time I get back to the office. Birmingham's going to be the eighth. For so many UK military personnel, it's where they came back to. It's where they woke up from their comas or whatever. in that ward in Birmingham. I actually went back there a few weeks ago. And for me, I remember being there. I don't really remember leaving the ward, the drug-fuelled haze and things like that. But I walked in there and I saw one of my nurses. I hadn't seen her for 15 years. Her name was Lauren.

1:00:10Josh Boggi: She's gone from a corporal to a wing commander in the Irish. She's doing really well for herself. But I walked in and I knew exactly what bed I'd been in and the private room I had. and where the common room and stuff was. Now, I've been back to that hospital since for more surgeries, but never to that ward. So that was weird. That was a bit of closure, but you know what I mean? Just closing that loop. But the fact that the Games themselves now are coming back to Birmingham, it's going to be epic. I mean, the NEC is a great venue anyway. Birmingham is such a multicultural city. Having those 26 nations coming to Birmingham, where we all came back to, to come and compete in the Invictus Games.

1:00:49Josh Boggi: Like I said, it's an international multi-sport adaptive event. Yeah, the plans they've got there, it's going to be fantastic. So cool. Yeah, and again, I've been there. I've done it. I'm wearing a t-shirt and so many others have. Some of my good friends are now ambassadors for it, etc. So seeing these guys and girls that are coming through early in their recovery journeys and the bounce they're going to get from spending time in that environment with themselves, but also their families will come as well. So their families are going to see them recovering and competing on an international stage, they've probably gone from some dark places to where they'll find themselves.

1:01:23Josh Boggi: Yeah, I can't wait for it. But it's not just them. The games are one week. I mean, the foundation I work for is 51 weeks of the year. And I mentioned Ukraine. I've been there quite a few times and I've seen the need. Being stood in one of their recovery centres as a, I'm not saying a tourist, but as a, I've been there when you've been stood there early in your recovery journey. and I don't know, the England cricket team show up, you feel like a bit of an animal in a zoo where people are just coming and looking at you and you're like, oh, great, cheers, nice one. And I've then gone on to be there with the Duke of Sussex in Ukraine in one of these centres and stood there next to my colleague, David.

1:02:00It was just like, right, this is where the need is great. This is where we need to focus a lot of our attention on, building sports recovery programmes in Ukraine, building capacity, supporting... Sorry, so what do we want to do? We want to get more veterans doing more sports in more places in Ukraine. What do you say to those people when you walk past them in the bed, in the bed where you were, that you would have wanted to have heard?

1:02:23Josh Boggi: I think just by standing there, just by standing there and showing them that there is light at the end of the tunnel, like the guy walking past my room on his prosthetic legs and explaining that there is life after injury and that there are these avenues to go down and that sport is a great vehicle to help you rebuild confidence, to give you purpose back, self-esteem back, and to show people that, yes, this has happened, but I'm not going to let that define me. This is who I'm going to be. I just want to show that no matter what happens in life, you've always got a choice. I keep saying it, moments change lives.

1:03:01Josh Boggi: And by that moment, by me standing there, if that's someone's moment to go, that's where I want to be, then so be it. And big credit, by the way, to the Duke of Sussex for creating the Invictus game, sticking with it and you've travelled with him I wouldn't be sat here now and we were the foundation wouldn't exist if it wasn't the Duke of Sussex it wasn't for the Duke of Sussex yeah I mean when he walks in a room you just see you don't really see the stuff that goes on behind the cameras when he's at the games but he's always around the competitors he's always around the families he's always getting involved and you can see us and he's just so comfortable in that environment it's a joy to be around can I ask the difference because there's a lovely story I know about you about the Millies in 2013 where you were reluctant to go because you didn't want to be like the animal in the zoo having your head patted and patronised so you can see through that facade of false nurse or people doing it for the wrong reasons what does he do uh that that is the difference that you can make authentic there's no icebreaker needed he is a former serviceman he has been to Afghanistan he has seen what we have been through and he has been on Plains home where there are guys with legs and arms missing and he's been to the Warrior Games and seen what goes on over there and from there the Invictus Games was born when he's in that environment he is the most genuine person in the world now tell us about the Millies the Millies I can't remember the Millies I got a bit drunk after that no the Millies I don't know I just guess it was so for context I was nominated for the Overcoming Adversity Award it was after that first Paris to London bike ride um and I just wasn't interested whatsoever I didn't want to be on telly or anything like that.

1:04:42Josh Boggi: Again, it was my wife telling me probably a big deal. She should go and do it. And do you know what? Again, it's one of the... I'm glad I did. It was horrible going up on stage. I was in my old military number twos. I'm an amputee. I've got the same amount of blood in my body as before I was injured. I get really hot really quickly. I've been in the Maldives in 40 degrees and gone, I'm cold. I'm putting a rab jacket on. And then I've been in Sweden at minus 20 in a t-shirt going, I'm too hot. You just body can't self-regulate. and I just remember being at the Millies it was so hot in that room and I was in military twos like basically walking around in curtains and my name got called to say I'd won the Overcoming Adversity Award and I just remember going up on stage and just dripping with sweat and then Sir Bradley Wiggins came out and actually gave me the award and it was just a bit like oh my god I'm just Josh from Portsmouth and I shouldn't be on this stage I've got a bit of imposter syndrome sitting here now to be honest but because of that and the reason I say that is because of that though afterwards Sir Brad said to me let's go for a bike ride one day and I go back to the feeling like I'm getting your hat okay you're brilliant yeah that's never going to happen and a month later I found myself in Mallorca with Team Sky and this is the year after he'd won the Tour de France and I found myself cycling down the road from Alcudia to Polenza next to Sir Bradley Wiggins and it was eye-opening it was one of them conversations and I remember asking him a question going what do you do on the days you can't be bothered like because we all have them and he was like they're the most important days it's not today is I'm getting up and riding this bike today not for today but for in four years time when I need one second to win a gold medal and I was just like that mentality I love it and it's a bit like I liked how Team Sky worked as well the guy was there doing the laundry then you had the chefs and then you had this it was like a military unit everyone knew their jobs everyone knew what they were doing and that's why it was successful the rider's job to get on the ride and bury himself.

1:06:40And yeah, I just love that environment. But yeah, that all came from taking that leap of faith and going to the Millies. Are you ready to finish with some quickfire questions? Thank you so much to our brilliant partner Vitality, the Life and Health Insurer, that's proven to help the members live up to five years longer by nudging us towards healthier lifestyle choices. So let's find out about some of your lifestyle choices. First of all, the three non-negotiable behaviours that you think are most important in life.

1:07:07Josh Boggi: If you're going to do something, commit to it. Don't do it half-heartedly. Challenges are just things that life throw at us. So it's up to you to overcome it. And try and do it with a bit of a smile on your face. Nice. Yeah. Today is what will define what you do in four years' time. So it's that putting in the hard work now will get you to where you want to get to. What is the most important habit in your life that pays back dividends? Getting up at five in the morning. Why? Because I used to be one of these people that was sleeping and, I don't know, So habits, I've read Atomic Habits. That changed my outset, especially after listening to the podcast.

1:07:42Josh Boggi: Getting up at five. I have that inner battle with my head straight away, the chimp, and he's telling me, what are you getting up for? And then my alarm will go off at five past two and that's it, get up. I'm up. Have a glass of water, have some coffee. Gym for six. Home for half seven. Good to go for the rest of the day. Get up. What's your biggest strength? Stubbornness. What's your greatest weakness? Self-doubt. What advice would you give to a young Josh? Alcohol is not the answer. I don't drink anymore. And it's one of the best. I've never had an issue with alcohol, as in being reliant on it, but binge drinking.

1:08:17Military, work hard, play hard. And there's things I regret because I've been drunk at the time. So alcohol is not the answer. What's one goal that you haven't yet said out loud? Make it to 60. I've just turned 40. Let's make it to 60. There you go. It's a good number.

1:08:36Josh Boggi: Yeah. And finally, Josh, what does high performance mean to you? Being the best version of yourself with what you've got on the day you've got it. So for me, being in the military, that would have been being the fittest, the strongest, most purpose, doing your job properly, be the best, as the army would say. Whereas now it can still be high performance, it can still be winning medals, it can still be climbing mountains, it can still be, sometimes it can be just getting out of bed in the morning. it's it's being the best version of yourself with what you've got at that time brilliant you can find out more about living longer with vitality pioneers in prevention as well as offering top health and life insurance by checking out vitality.co.uk josh thank you for the most incredible hour and a bit of conversation thank you very much gentlemen how was it for you i was very nervous coming in here um especially after our moment in the toilet jake uh we won't mention that again no what happens in the toilet it stays in the toilet no thank you very much really appreciate your time damien jake what do you think loved it loved it i loved um that adapt and overcome mentality that he'd learned in the military seeing how it was applied outside of that environment to me was a master class what did you think i think it's a great reminder for all of us how adaptable human beings are, how resilient human beings are.

1:10:00And this is a man who hasn't just had to kind of adapt once or adapt twice. He's had to do it multiple times. You know, I had to go from a guy who was in the military to a guy who wasn't physically capable anymore. A guy who had four limbs to a guy who had one and a half limbs. A guy who was competing as a cyclist and then had such a huge crash, he wasn't able to do that anymore. He's now having to adapt again to a guy who's a former Invictus Games competitor who's kind of looking at what comes next. And I think that, you know, we often get overawed by the things that are in front of us and forget that actually there are people like Josh and they are the beacon for the fact that whatever you're dealing with in your life, it's overcomable, it's dealable with, and you will be okay.

1:10:45And I think the more we can tell these stories, the more powerful it is for our community. Yeah, absolutely. I think there's one other thing though that I'd encourage people listening to this that might have been inspired by it is look at the power of environment you know when he speaks around headley court was almost like the perfect place to recover from because you saw other people that were had gone through similar traumatic experiences and were further along on the recovery that was an inspiration for him people that could push him and not give him sympathy but a challenge instead was really powerful whereas maybe there's that second incident in majorca he didn't have that and he as he said himself he found it so much harder so i think you're right this ability to adapt can often be woven into our environment and we need to put ourselves in positions and places that can allow us and to to be able to find those alternative uh ways through you're totally right i really i really enjoyed it and i think um he's an incredible guy so thank you yeah thanks mate i hope you enjoyed that as well um if you did then please dive into the archives because as we mentioned actually a couple of times during the conversation with Josh, we have got so many amazing chats in the High Performance Archive with people who've shown incredible resilience, people who've been through instantaneous physical changes such as Josh described or people who've had to deal with real mental health challenges throughout their life.

1:12:07And I would love you to delve into the archive and enjoy those. Please remember wherever you're watching to like, subscribe, to share the show and make such a difference for us. We'll see you next time on High Performance, but for now remain humble, curious and empathetic. Bye-bye.

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