How Klopp Built a Team Around Youth, with Academy Boss Alex Inglethorpe (E260)

0:28Watch it early on the High Performance app. is Alex Inglethorpe. This is High Performance and you're about to hear a fascinating shout with the man who holds the future of Liverpool Football Club in his hands, the Liverpool Academy Director, Alex Inglethorpe. In the 2024 League Cup final, a bunch of teenage Liverpool Academy graduates helped to win the game for the Reds. But why is the Merseyside Club enjoying such success with young players? What lessons does Alex's approach teach us? Well, it's time to find out. This This conversation was recorded live in front of an audience and we're about to hear the truth about Liverpool's teenage talent.

1:07Before we get going, don't forget you can watch these conversations on YouTube as well as listen to them wherever you get your podcasts. But right now, let's get to it and welcome the Liverpool Academy Director, Alex Inglethorpe, to the show. And before we start, a quick word from our sponsors who allow us to give you this content for free. before we get going just to let you know that you can now enjoy a free trial of high performance plus where you can get early access ad free content exclusive masterclasses and high performance originals just download the high performance app from the app store the market's uncertain revenues tied and hiring on hold that's why results driven companies are using Upwork to keep work moving.

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3:26So let's start where we always do. What do you believe high performance to be, particularly with your Academy hat on? Well, I think probably a bit different for me because high performance with children is a deferred process really so it's it's um sometimes you can wait 10 years to see whether your work has been any good or or to see the sort of the fruits of that work so i think for me high performance is more about the process that sits behind it when you're working with children than perhaps the outcome um and i guess it's also about creating habits habits that will prepare you for life either with or within, you know, within or without football.

4:14And that's our job. So for me, that's where we are. Okay. So you need young players who are patient, right? But then eventually you do get that joy for some of them. And you had that just recently. Let's start by talking about the League Cup final. Five academy prospects were in the team. Three teenagers were in the team. It made all the papers. It was the talk of football for that weekend. what do you believe the secret to that success was? Probably having a manager with the biggest balls in the stadium. Honestly? Yeah, well, I think, you know, there's not many, the boys have got to be good enough in the first instance and they've got to have proven that they are good enough over a period of time in training, but to put them on in the moments that he put them on, I just thought it was an incredible, you know, act of trust, faith from him.

5:05and so there is a tremendous amount of work that takes place to get them to that point but if we're talking specifically about the finalists also it was a perfect storm they were needed, the academy needed to step up at that particular moment because it wasn't as if there was an alternative if you look at the bench and who was on the bench and the options that the manager had he had to look towards youth but there should be a huge amount of credit for him taking that step because there were options He could have left the senior players on if he wanted to. He could have waited to maybe extra time to do that.

5:41But I think that's what makes him unique. And that's what makes him, I think that's what made the final so special. It was the timing of the substitutions. And then, of course, they have to go and play their part. But you were proud. Oh, I couldn't watch. Honestly. Yeah, I'm terrible like that. I'm fine as long as none of the kids are playing. When they are playing, I'm just sort of stood there like that. But it was, I get nervous for them. For me, it's a parental sort of nervousness. You sat there just wanting and wishing that they do as well as they can possibly do. Nice. I'm interested in what we saw at Wembley was almost the flowering of that talent.

6:23But I'm interested in the soil, the culture that you've created at the academy to enable that flowering and blossoming to occur. So would you describe to us, Alex, a little bit around the principles and the way that you've shaped the culture? Yeah, I think first and foremost, the people are the culture, you know, especially if you want to work in development. I'm really lucky that, you know, I'm surrounded by people that I think get development and they understand it. They don't use it as a stepping stone for their own career because I think that's probably a bit of a watch out. if you think that people are using kids as a little bit of an experiment to further their own footballing pathway.

7:02So I think that I'm really, really fortunate to be surrounded by people that have a basic intrinsic motivation to work and to better young footballers. So I think in terms of the culture, we try really, really hard. And it's a fine balance because I think that you could... A safe environment isn't necessarily just about enjoying it and being happy. It's actually making them aware that there are certain truths to football. They're hard. You will get dropped. You are going to get injured. The club perhaps will buy someone in to take your place at some point. There's nothing that I can do to change those rules.

7:44They are the facts. What you have to do is work with them. and I think make them aware that if this is what you want to do, if this is the direction that you want to go in, that this is what you're going to have to deal with. At the heart of everything we do is something called what we engage, challenge, support. So I think the first... And engagement isn't just... It's not just a high five. It's not just a sort of like... If I walk down a corridor and say to a kid, how are you doing? Chances are they'll say, fine, how are you? fine and you can carry on walking so establishing rapport with them is probably realizing that you know you're not going to get to really understand how they are how they're feeling unless you probably question five six or seven you might have to dig a little bit and then if you've engaged and you can establish your rapport or relationship I think that gives you the right to perhaps challenge you know which is why I still like coaching because I think you know that's my way of establishing rapport if you can then challenge and that doesn't always have to be a negative challenge it could be a positive challenge then you're probably obligated to support and support doesn't necessarily have to come straight away sometimes it's really interesting with kids to see if they figure it out themselves you know I think there's sometimes you know a direction of travel could be that that maybe there's a lot of adults in the room that want to solve a problem straight away and I find it really interesting to see if they can work it out I guess the art is for how long you know how long are you prepared to wait for someone to see if they and figure it out before you make an intervention and see if you can help them in that way.

9:20And you mentioned a really nice example when we were chatting beforehand of something that you called the sun test that to me sounded like a really powerful driver of your academy. Yeah, I mean, I sort of stumbled across it more by anything else. I call it the sun rule because my lad's been there and he's been there since the age of six. And it sort of struck me a little bit when he was in pre-academy and I sat there just watching and I was thinking, I really hope he's with that coach tonight and not with that coach. And then it sort of struck me, well, I'm the director of the academy. I can probably, I should be able to affect that.

9:56And if I don't want my son working with them, why should I have anybody's son working with them? So sort of like it was a bit of an epiphany that I've got 180 sons there now. And if I can take the decisions that I would want to take for my son, then they may not be the right decisions, but they certainly come from the heart and they come from a place where, you know, it's very well-intentioned. So has it changed the way you run and operate having your son in the academy? I'd love to find out how and why. Yeah, he's been my best coach. No question, because I have got it, you know, you suddenly realise that, okay, four times a week, you know, travelling to and from games, having to feed, you know, feed him afterwards, getting to do homework it's hard and until you live it you probably don't have the empathy that you would have had for the parents that are on that journey you speak to them and you might try and understand it but when you've actually gone through it I do think it creates a better level of understanding of the commitment and it's not just for them often it's a sibling that gets dragged along sometimes it's a nan or a grandad that have to take the boy in and it's dealing with the times when they've played and you have I should know better I've had some really bad conversations with my son on the way home the sort of conversations that you'd advise every other parent no no come on don't talk about the game talk about something else and you can't help yourself you sat in the car and I just think you did and what could you have done better well for parents listening to this what are the questions we shouldn't be asking our children and what are the questions you think we should be I think it differs depending on the role that you play within so I think at some point I find it easier if they come to you.

11:38They usually want to come to you at some point and say, how do you think I did? And usually if you can take the emotion out of the game first and let some time go and at some point they usually want to come. And then I suppose everyone will know their son, their child the best and be probably able to answer it in a way which is, you'd hope would be constructive. But I think there has to be a level of honesty there as well. I think it stings a little bit when you get feedback that you don't want. But ultimately, if you try and get better at delivering it, it helps you get somewhere. And then you possibly need solutions as well.

12:16It's possibly easier for me because I have a footballing background, so therefore you talk about football. But at the end of it, I think it depends on the age as well. So somewhere between nine and 13, I would consider that our junior academy. me and I would encourage every parent just to see it like a really good version of a Sunday league club great pitches great coaches um great kit you know no crazy parents on the sideline it's it's all really really it's exactly as Sunday league football should be and I think if you sort of like get to 14 you probably at that stage if you're still in the system at 14 it it could end up as a job in some form you know whether that's as a scholarship or professional so therefore the role of ourselves as an academy is probably gonna try and prepare them for what's next but i think a clear distinction in terms of you know i would say 13 just just enjoy just just literally see it as you know result doesn't matter no of course not so would you describe them for that post-14 period, some of the more radical implementations you've made to start to get these young men ready for a potential career as a professional footballer?

13:34I'm not sure they're radical. For me, it just feels like common sense. First off, we'd ask them to hand their phones in in the morning. Not for many other reasons, it's just they talk a lot more to each other throughout the day, which is a positive. We would try and limit the amount of money that we would give them as a first contract not because we can't afford it as a club because I think we're you know we could certainly pay more but we don't think it's the right thing to do to give a 17 year old way too much money because you know it's it should be something that perhaps is is earned as you progress and and you know and the club are certainly fantastic at rewarding players as they progress and do and do well they'll do that um I think that our education program is slightly different to most there's the formal education the qualifications that they have to get but we're really keen to give them experiences that would probably just maybe shape their lives a little bit more or certainly give cause to question so you know they do go to food banks and hand out food they do go to homeless shelters they they do go to prisons they will go to schools and and they'll read to to the young kids there.

14:47Not because we, there's no press there, there's no sort of like club badge because we actually think these are the right things to do. And that's, I think, a meaningful part of the education that we give them. Where do you stand with allowing individualism? So if someone wants to wear a nice, I don't know, expensive diamond bracelet, have their ears pierced, turn up in a Lamborghini or a Range Rover when they're 17, 18, 19 years of age, How does that sit with you and the Academy as a wider group? Yeah, not well. I've sort of said to them before, we've got a clause in the contracts about the car they can drive.

15:24Not because we want to be controlling or mean. It's just that sometimes kids, they don't know, and they don't know they don't know. What's the clause? Well, it's a word that limits the type of engine that they can have to something which I would consider safe. Right. and I think it's 1.3. So it limits the sort of car you can drive. And I tell them all, if I don't approve, they can go and park it next door on the David Lloyd and they can walk in. But the reason behind it is that if you've worked 10 years to create an audition for yourself, 10 years where four times a week, 10 years of someone else taking you to training, then you don't want to fail that audition by getting out of the wrong car or wearing the wrong watch or the wrong pair of shoes because ultimately there is going to be an opinion formed on you very, very early on that probably sits before you've even kicked a ball.

16:24And I think we've had some incredible role models at the club in the time that I've been here. You know, started off with Stephen Gerrard and Jamie Carragher. And then, you know, the pattern's been passed on to a, you know, a Henderson, a Lana, a Milner. and now it probably sits with Virgil and Robertson and possibly Trent. And I think more so than the manager, those people will have an opinion on a young person and they will have an opinion on the car they drive or the watch they wear because their frame of reference when they were young is they weren't getting out of a Range Rover. James Milne's first car, I think, was a Ford Focus and Henderson's Fiesta or something like that.

17:07I think Andy Robertson probably didn't have a car for a while. He was working in M &S and doing all the things that he needed to be doing. How would he get to training then, Andy? Take the bus, I would have thought. But I think that those experiences are being grounded and therefore if they see someone perhaps getting out of a car that's different or wearing a watch that costs too much, I think it's human nature that your own frame of reference goes back to how you were as a young player coming through, as a child and maybe not quite having that level of understanding as to why you would want to fill your life with those sort of things early on.

17:49I mean, it sounds to me like what you're describing is you're developing and helping people shape character. And that's a phrase that lots of people use. I'd be curious if you'd break it down and explain what is character and what are some of those character traits that you've seen over your career that facilitate high performance? yeah so i think i mean i think in terms of characters i've said before talent can get you to 16 character gets you to 35 so you know for sure you need resilience because all the things we said before the the truths of football they're not going to go and how do you build that i think first by acknowledging them and not hiding away so acknowledging that they are they are there and then I think a consistency of message, understanding that the journey is going to be a long one but possibly also allowing for, character doesn't mean to say that necessarily you can't be an individual.

18:50Actually, I think it's really important that you are an individual. It's the mavericks that often come through. Like who? I think in terms of how they think, So for me, the Mavericks are the ones who think a little bit differently. So Harry Kane would have been a Maverick for me when he was younger. When you were at Spurs? Yeah, yeah. And that sort of whole group that came through there, I think Curtis, Trent, all of them are Mavericks in as much as they think a little bit differently. Can you give us an example of what that looks like? I think there's an obsessiveness around what they do, which actually if you think about it if you imagine that the sort of like the normal you know normality for most people in terms of masochism or the ability to sort of masochistic behaviour, the ability to hurt themselves sits somewhere fairly general to the right of that you have people that are really obsessive in their nature, need to do things right they tend to be the ones who come through The problem that we have is that society now wants to normalise those people.

20:01And I've got to be very, very careful that we don't try and normalise people that actually have those traits or would have those behaviours that would perhaps allow them to get through. It's probably understanding it and recognising it and then actually embracing it a little bit. It's interesting this then. So are you saying that the players who we would now associate with the Liverpool Academy, Curtis Jones, Trent Alexander-Arnold, when they're 10, 11, 12, 13, are they the ones where you're going, oh, they're the ones pushing you to your limit? Absolutely. I've had more run-ins with those players.

20:38I've had to have more chewing gum on the side, just sort of like, oh my God, driving me mad. They're stubborn. They're also coach-proof, which I love. What do you mean by that? That's an intriguing phrase. I think there's a respect for coaches, definitely. And they see coaches as someone who can help them, but they're going to do it their way. 100 % they're going to do it their way. Right. And I think that they will use you to help and get better, but there's no doubt that you are facilitating their plan. Because often we think the young player that just listens to everything the coach says and does everything the coach says will be the one that makes it.

21:20Yeah, which is a real flaw because I certainly don't know everything and I've not yet met a coach that does. I couldn't tell you now, I could look at under-14s or under-15s, I could not tell you who the next Premier League player is going to be because I would have got it wrong far too many times in the past. So when at Tottenham, I probably had Harry Kane in the group when he was 13. At that time, he'd have been middle of the group and at best. you know to a gold and silver medalist he wasn't even on the podium so would not and then Trent not number one in his group Connor Bradley not number one of that time Jarrell not number one and you could go through all of them and every now and again you are going to you know I've not encountered it yet but I guess I saw Bellingham play when he was young and you could see he was he was a fantastic player and top of the group and remain top of the group.

22:18I guess Rooney would have been someone similar. Michael Owen. Michael Owen. But I don't think Stephen was. Stephen got turned down for the initial at 16. So what have they got then that doesn't put them top of the group but it means they have great careers as pros? I think it's that obsessiveness and that... And also, I think you can't take away from the fact that, you know, young bodies change. Yeah. You know, I think you've... I've listened to the Scott McTonway one. Right. So he would have wanted to be a professional footballer. He would have probably had all the attributes needed, but his body wasn't ready.

22:57And sometimes, you know, through that growth and maturation stage somewhere between 12 and 14, you know, it would be so much easier if it was like, right, everyone start at the same time, everyone finish at the same time, but it doesn't work that way. You know, they will start different times. And I think, you know, I call them the foggy years. You know, sometimes you're best just to sort of literally put a blunt and just forget it. are assessed again when they're 16, 17. Because you cannot tell. And I'm not good enough. I'm nowhere near a good enough judge to be able to say, yep, that's him. If we can explore the Kane example, because that really intrigues me that you've seen him at 13 and now he's England's record goal scorer.

23:33Was there any moments where you observed him, where even in retrospect you can see there was something there that was going to give a hint to his promise? I think a pivotal moment at Tottenham and by the way for one second there's a lot of people that work with players it's never one person and John McDermott should probably take a huge amount of credit for the time spent with Harry but I think there was a time when a good under 16 player very good under 17 player etc and one day I think Brad Fiedler came in and said he finishes like Robbie Fowler and everyone's like oh does he and there's suddenly a level of interest like no back lift hits the ball hard finds corners and it was it probably just shifted our thinking a little bit when you know you get feedback or someone says something like that it's like okay that's you know that's that's praise

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28:27And how much is your job to get in the way and turn them into great players? And how much is your job just to get out their way? Harry Kane is a good example, just to not stop them. Yeah, I think you don't create good players. I think you can stop it perhaps, but I do think as you get a little bit older, you realise that some of your best coaching is where you just turn a blind eye. You know, I remember plenty of times, I was always pretty OCD myself around collecting the footballs in. It comes from a background of being probably Watford as a kid and then Leatherhead, Leighton, Orient, Exeter.

29:02You count the footballs in because you're not getting replacements. And I could never understand why I was like always two or three short. It's just driving me mad. I'd be in my office and you know it's sort of cottoned on that one day there's a bit of you know you could just see sort of like heads in the distance and all the rest of it and what they'd done is they were hiding the footballs in the bushes and then in the afternoon going out and having their own session and the best thing I ever did was just turn a blind eye and who was in that group? that would have probably been Andros Townsend Harry Kane Stephen Cook all of that lot you know and other lads that maybe didn't go on but there was just I think if there's a natural desire for kids to practice, to want to do better.

29:44I've got a lad at Liverpool at the minute that actually played in the final, who's exactly the same. You know, if I take my eye off him for a minute, I know he's going to be behind the fence with a football somewhere. And, you know, I think it's probably, as a coach, recognising that you don't have to be all things to all people, that you don't have to be the one that is giving out the information and, you know, correcting technique or advising. Sometimes it's enough just to be there should they need you. And often it's enough just to protect them. So I think my role now is to protect some of the players.

30:17Trent's probably a really good example of, we didn't teach him to pass the ball the way he's passing it. I'd love to think that, I'd love to hoover up a bit of credit and say that it was me that said, you know, when you see that run there, just do that. And it wasn't me. It wasn't anybody else. But what we didn't do was tell him to pass five yards that way, five yards that way, 10 yards in there. I think he had autonomy and freedom to experiment. And often you need that because you're going to get a lot of things wrong. If you're that type of player, if you're the maverick, you're going to get more wrong than right.

30:52If you want to have past completion and you want 90%, pass there, pass there, pass there, no problem. I'd like to explore Trent, if I can. What do you think is the reason why he made it? Fantastic support from family. Yeah. I think tight-knit group around him so I think he was always surrounded by honesty incredible support from home but very honest support very grounding you know even when he was you know he'd won his probably Premier League Champions League I know his mum sort of saying look you know tardy trainers away put them up it doesn't matter how many medals you got you're still doing this and I think that fearlessness that it doesn't matter who's watching no fear of failure no fear of failure whatsoever Did he ever have that?

31:41He'd probably be at a better place to answer and I don't know how to answer that on his behalf but it never felt like it worried him and probably the most important thing, he is off the scale competitive which I thought I was competitive as a player and I thought I was competitive and I still think I'm competitive now but there are levels there are levels and I think when you meet more of the ex-players and you talk about Trent or the current, there are, you know, we say we love the ones that hate to lose. And sometimes when they're little, that manifests itself in crying, you know, sort of like falling on the floor and all the things that you think.

32:20Not shaking hands with the opposition. Not shaking hands with the opposition. All the things you tell your child off for not doing are all the things that you actually maybe want to see in someone that might make. Yeah, you become more, you sort of like then think, okay, well, they might just need that. And you wouldn't condone it. You don't want other kids to sort of like follow that. But if it's a natural reaction and you feel you can channel it in a slightly better way or you trust that just by getting older, you channel it in a slightly different way, then, you know, for me, that would be the common thread of the players that I've worked with is this, you know, there is a real competitive edge to what they do.

32:59And also the players he was with at the academy, I think were probably quite vital, right? Yeah, I think it's, you know, sometimes I think you've got to be fortunate within a group. So I'm told that, you know, Michael Owen and Steven Gerrard, you know, one made the other one better. Michael runs, Steven pass. You know, and Steven probably needed someone to explore his range of passing with. And Michael needed to make runs knowing that the ball had half a chance of getting there. So sometimes you've got to be lucky. for Trent he had a he had a really good sparring partner and a young lad Dutch lad called Bobby Adekanye who's gone to have a really good career himself over in Holland and Italy but Bobby was really I don't know he's really confident in his own ability really super confident and he'd every day tell Trent what he was going to do and you could see Trent hated it with a passion probably hated him with a passion at the time but it was competitive it was real and And I think that's, you know, if you're sparring or if you're rehearsing, then you need that, you know.

34:04So last season when Trent copped a load of flack in the media, what did you make of that then? I think first off, you become quite defensive. I did. I became quite, I suppose, protective over it. And then like most things, like most criticism, it stings in the beginning and then at some point, it usually takes me sort of two days to, okay. If it's aimed at me, is there any truth in this? How can I reflect differently? What do I need? So I think some of it was probably, you know, I guess it's an opinion whether some of it was fair. Some of it, you know, a lot of it probably very unfair, but some of it fair.

34:47What I was most impressed with was his reaction to it, you know, because it would have been the first time they'd been for a, you know, It's been a fairly seamless ride up until that moment because won the Premier League, won the Champions League, won the FA Cup, won the Carabao Cup, been to World Cups. For someone of such a young age, the curve was only going up. So this would have been the first significant bump in the road that it had in his professional career. And so sometimes you learn more about yourself and you learn more about how you can deal with adversity when you're faced with those challenges.

35:26And what did you see him do that impressed you so much? Well, I don't think he hid away. He confronted it head on. And I think in typical Trent fashion, he decided to... And the only way you can put it right is probably on the pitch. And I thought he adapted to a new position, new role. But I thought he faced up to it. He didn't hide behind excuses. I think he just kept his head down and proved his point with his feet. It's also a reminder to you of the importance of building that resilience at an early age so that when you're in the first team and this criticism comes your way, you've got the tools to deal with it.

36:06Could you give us some of the specific things that you do in the academy so that players fail, so they struggle, so they get it wrong, so they don't always win? Well, I think the game itself is the best teacher for that. but I think what we have to be careful of not doing is I mean there are some naturally occurring bumps in the road that happen in everybody's life you know certainly children's lives that they happen and I think the temptation for adults is to is to perhaps remove them and we've got to be careful as academies that you know we have so much support now we have you know so many different departments that can that can help and and they are really really important that we have those departments but what's really I think critical for us is that you know we just give them time to see whether they can actually overcome these these hurdles themselves and sometimes that's going to be you're not going to you know maybe not going to play in the game you want you know maybe it isn't going to be maybe not selected for Everton or United or City or whoever it's going to be but I think it's probably as a group just resisting that temptation to dive in and and what comes from a really good place of just trying to help which is ultimately if you work in academies.

37:16There's some amazing work going on up and down the country. And we have, you know, we're no different. We have some amazing staff. But sometimes just stepping back and seeing whether they can cope with it themselves, I think is really, really important. So can we talk about the man with the biggest balls in Wembley in that recent cup final, Jürgen? Because I'm interested in when he first came in and he used that iconic phrase of I want to turn doubters into believers. I'm interested in the reaction for you in the academy of hearing a head coach come in and talk about that I think as a club I don't think anyone quite knew what that meant at the time you know it was it was a lovely thing to hear but I don't think anyone really understood what that meant and bit by bit as a club I think the belief from us started to happen around you know we could win games even when the odds were against us I thought we were fantastic under Jürgen I think we've been an incredible underdog club you know when it's stacked against us whether it's been against Dortmund or Barcelona I think for the academy it's been right the majority of kids go and play Everton in the FA Cup go and play Norwich go and play Preston go and play Shrewsbury go and actually play your part now and the expectation and the expectation is no you're going to go and win he's incredible like that I think he's incredible at convincing the club the supporters the city that you can win irrespective of the conditions that you face then you don't always need your best team if you think about Barcelona you know and who was missing and perhaps in previous years there'd have been doubt we can't win without them you know we can't be Everton without them the main team here we have to you know how does he how has he change that mindset then what's he done?

39:14I think he's I think he's an incredible communicator you know and I think that and and by the way I think that there are people far better placed to answer that question than me my job is in the academy my job is not to be with the first team he trusts me to run the academy but he still has to give you he has to give you some kind of a message to pass on to the youngsters right so what's that? I remember speaking to him in lockdown. I wanted to do something with the 16s around, go on then, what's it going to take to get into his squad? And it was really simple. You know, he doesn't need many words to sort of convey what he thinks, but it was, first off, if you pass the academy test, then, you know, already you're in because of character.

39:59So, we pride ourselves at the academy. I don't think anyone has ever really failed on character. Might not have just been good enough, and that's fine. That's absolutely fine. But you don't go there and fail on the basics of working hard, running hard, trying your best. So there's a certain test that he would feel you needed to pass just to get to him. And then when you're there, he talks about, if you're not playing football, you should be watching football. I think he loves you to watch it, loves you to love football, genuinely be in love with football. And the third message was really just be patient, trust me.

40:38just you know if you lose patience then it's over so just trust me trust you know and that's hard for a kid because every 17 year old believes that they are ready to play for Liverpool every single one of them will all think now that if they play tomorrow that they're ready so it's hard to feel ready at 17 but not maybe get your chance to 21, 22 whatever it's going to be there's an awful lot of trust that has to go in that time and how I mean I'm interested in in the topic of patience, because we live in an increasingly impatient world. How do you introduce and teach patients to 17-year-olds? I don't think you can.

41:18I think they're just wired to feel, and especially if they spent their life preparing for something, they just want the moment to come along. I think it's more our role at the academy, my role at the academy is probably when they just lose that bit of patience or lose that bit of focus, is to try and help them back onto the path a little bit. But every single one of them, if they were needed to play, would all believe that they could go and play and be successful. And if they didn't think that, they wouldn't be there. Exactly, yeah. I think one of your big challenges is, like, Liverpool needs to humble these players, right?

41:54They need to realise that to play for the Liverpool first team is a remarkable privilege and an incredibly difficult thing to achieve. But you've also got to let them know that it's possible. so other than seeing it so you can believe it which would be the Carabao Cup final what can you do to help the players realise that it's bloody difficult but it was also possible I'm not sure we've cracked that one really well it's a really good question because like you say I think that and it's possibly going to change with you know with each manager at the minute you know we've got to the stage and perhaps because of the length of time the manager is here that he trusts his own decision-making, that we've had an awful lot of opportunity.

42:38That may not always be the case. Things go in cycles. I'm not daft enough to think that this is going to continue forever. Sometimes I think that you just have to accept that the answer isn't there. I haven't got an answer for that. One of the big things that Liverpool need to find the answer to is who the next manager is going to be, right? and there's this conversation about the Liverpool way I'm interested in what your thoughts are at the moment with a new manager coming in you know how vital Jürgen has been for this football club we talk about the Liverpool way so what are your emotions like around this current situation?

43:17Well I think it took me I'm still not quite there in terms of what the Liverpool way is but 11 years in I'm closer It's taken that long? Yeah because I think it's a conceptual idea and I think you realise what it isn't. So you realise that it's not a system. It's not a shape. It's very much around the people that you work with. It's a connection to the fans. It's the city. And I think over time, if you stay there long enough, you can become a part of the Liverpool way. But perhaps more importantly, the Liverpool way actually becomes a part of you. And how has that happened for you? When have you realised what it actually means to be part of Liverpool?

43:59the connection to the club is there's some really weird emotions you get when you're at the stage and I always thought it was a bit mythical previous coming in and you sort of hear about the Liverpool atmosphere and the fans and all the rest of it but it's real you know there are certain nights there are certain times where it's more than the goosebumps you know get a little bit emotional around you know what's going to go on here and you do feel a connection a connection to something far far far bigger and more important than yourself. And you realise, you know, just how important the badge, the club is to the city and the supporters.

44:39And, you know, I think that connection with the city and the supporters, it's certainly been unique for me and it's been a, you know, it's been a privilege to be a part of. But I'm not sure it's something that will leave you either. I don't think, like some clubs, I think you can leave and move on and next thing. I'm not just sure this will leave. And that leads me then to an area of interest. I think what Liverpool do better than most clubs is the way that they integrate former players into the academy and the club as a whole. Has there ever been a moment where you've sort of tapped into that history, that legacy through the lens of a former player that has given you an insight into what a special club it is?

45:17Yeah, and I do feel that that, I mean, it's so true what you're saying. that for sure is unique for me. I wouldn't speak on behalf of every other club, but upon coming into Liverpool, you do feel that a lot of the ex-players see you as a custodian of something that, you know, all right, you've been past this and we're going to judge now, see if you're any good. And if you're any good, then okay. But I think, you know, I think that the level of interest, and I've got Kenny Dalgleish texting me last night wanting to know where the under-15s are playing on Sunday. Because he wants to come along to the academy to watch it.

45:56I've got Rob Jones phoning up players who are on loan, Steve McManaman that's coming in to train with the under-18s. I've got Michael Thomas every day coming in. Michael's unbelievable. It works. There are times I've been at a game with the under-12s, 13s, and he's there, and then he'll disappear. I say, where are you going? He said, I'm going to watch the under-11s. They're over in Stoke. And he'll drive off. And it is so unique. and I'm missing you know there are loads more ex-players who I think have a continued not just passing interest in what the club is doing but it is their club and they feel like like I said they're the custodians of it and what they do is they pass it on and you know I sincerely hope that you know the players that are playing at the minute in the first team at one point in the future will be handed on that baton themselves and have that that right to sort of like, you know, okay, we're going to make sure that the values of the club and how we are at the club is passed on to a future generation and that's all I can hope for.

46:55And before we wrap up with a few quick fire questions, you know, people in this room are here because they love being part of Liverpool and the Liverpool first team and what that means and the trophies that come with it. So what would you, what would you tell the people in here and the people listening to this conversation about what the future looks like for Liverpool Football Club from your perspective? It's an incredibly special club and And, you know, the future isn't just for the football side to shape. It's for everybody to shape. Everybody will play their part in that. You know, I happen to think from an academy perspective, which is the part that I guess I am responsible for.

47:31I think it's in good shape. But, you know, I think that we guard against complacency and, you know, we certainly haven't cracked it. But, you know, I'm always going to believe there are players playing in our academy that are capable of playing 500 games for the first team. And more importantly, we've never just wanted debuts. We've never just wanted boys to get on the pitch and put a shirt on. That's amazing. Never take it away. But the benchmark is we want boys to go and play and actually win trophies for the club. That's what the club has been based on. That's what the history of the club has been based on.

48:04And, you know, we'd love to continue to play our part in that. Very good. Right. Some quickfire questions. What are the three non-negotiable behaviours in the Liverpool Academy that matter the most? Work ethic. humility,

48:20spirit. What's the best piece of advice you've ever been offered, or why? Wake up each day and know that you don't know. I think because if you wake up each day knowing you don't know, I think it naturally forces you to go and look for the answer. What's your biggest strength and what's your greatest weakness? Strength probably...

48:47probably obsessiveness weakness probably obsessiveness yeah what advice would you give to a teenage Alex just starting out on his journey don't worry so much don't worry it'll work out don't overthink it just enjoy it more than perhaps I have done which player in the Liverpool first team currently epitomises best what the academy is all about and why the obvious one is Trent and I would probably go with that. And the reason being that if the benchmark is to win things as an academy graduate, if it is to sort of like further the club's history and legacy, then at the minute, you know, he's probably got a few medals that the other ones would want.

49:31So he would be our poster boy. And the final message is, what's your one golden rule to live in a high-performance life? That's a really good question. I wish I had an answer that was readily accessible. I'm not sure it's a golden rule, but I think it, like I said,

49:54I think for me it would be probably around seeing potential, spotting potential in people, whether that's a player or a member of staff or anybody that you meet really, it's probably trying to understand and recognise what they could become rather than what they are. Very good. What an interesting insight into your life and the life of the academy, which as we know is the lifeblood of the first team in the football club. So thank you very much, ladies and gentlemen, Alex Inglethorpe. Thank you very much.

50:39well what a cool conversation with Alex and we've spoken to so many people involved in football and you can check out all of their conversations on the high performance app and actually you can currently get a free trial of high performance plus which will give you early access to our latest episodes add free content exclusive masterclasses and high performance originals totally free. Just download the High Performance app from the App Store. But that's it for this episode. Remember, stay humble, curious and empathetic. And we'll see you again next time.

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