Is It Any Fun Being a Premier League Player?

0:00Watch it early on the High Performance app. Available now, Roman Kemp, the broadcaster, opens up a powerful conversation on success and mental health.

0:13Hey everyone, welcome back to High Performance. This is the show that aims to understand the stories, the successes and the struggles of the planet's highest performers. And I'm so pleased to say that my fine friend and now global traveller, Damien Hughes, is with us as always. Damien, how's your summer been? Yeah, really good, thanks, Jake. just got back from a billion three-week trip to Canada. So I realised how knackered I was just before we went and it took me about three days to unwind and then after that it was blissful. Well I don't know if you heard it actually Damien but last Friday I had a really fun episode actually.

0:47I spoke to Tom Pidcock and Josh Kerr, two medalists from the Paris 2024 Olympics and I must be honest I've been messaging you. I've not had a reply from you so I assume that's because you took your other phone because you've got this cool thing where when you're on holiday with your family you have a second phone only for pictures and for booking restaurants and finding out where you are right absolutely yeah yeah so yeah I did that again the second phone uh and I've got to give credit again to Dr Peter Atiyah when we sat down with him it was him that shared the idea so I nicked it off him and uh yeah I find it so helpful I put my work stuff in the safe so I I still do an hour in the evening just before we go out.

1:28But then for the rest of the day, you can direct your time and energy and attention to the people that count most for me. I suppose in some ways, we're quite lucky that we get the opportunity to decelerate because I was thinking about footballers and I wonder whether we should have a slightly longer conversation about the life of a footballer because a lot of them have played in the Premier League or other divisions straight away into the Euros and straight away they're back into football again. and look if you are a professional footballer there are loads of great things but also it consumes your life completely so I thought we should title this episode today is being a Premier League footballer any fun like you have worked with them you have met many of them you were involved in helping England prepare for the Euros very recently so when I asked the question is being a Premier League footballer any fun what where does your brain take you immediately my initial answer is it can be as long as you get the other factors right around it so I think when you think about fun there's a couple of elements that need to be there there needs to be a sense of purpose so what you do you need to actually find the moments of joy you need to be surrounded by people and feel that you belong in a right place so I think when all those factors in place fun can happen but I think when they're not there that's where it can often feel like a bit of a slog or a grind and it's no coincidence that the footballers you often hear when they complain about it it's often one of those factors that's missing for them do you think we also need to change the way we talk and think about footballers that if they have an interest outside of the sport right which we all know diversity of interest is healthy for us psychologically right when footballers have that they get criticized and pilloried for it whether it's fashion whether it's writing books whether I remember Daniel Sturridge released a cooking sauce like a stirring sauce everyone criticized him I kind of feel like when footballers try and find fun the world of football very quickly tells us that they shouldn't be doing that yeah I think you're right I think like we have this it's it's almost like a two-dimensional idea that you need to be wholly dedicated to a particular task or otherwise the fact that you might have other outside interests indicates that you're not as committed you're not as dedicated as somebody else and I think that's really unhealthy you know I think the idea of doing other things just gives you a wider sense of perspective gives you the idea that there's a life further out there so that you don't define yourself simply by what you do on a football field because again if you think about like even if you're really successful on a football field and you allow that to define you what happens when you're physically not able to go out there on a football field.

4:09That's where you get lots of footballers struggling in that transition into retirement. So I think we need to have that more holistic point of view that these are people that happen to be very good at playing football. They're not footballers. Well, the Premier League season starts on the day that we're releasing this episode. And I think that I would like to talk to you about a Premier League footballer who's one of the legends and I've worked with for a very long time. should we start by hearing a quick story from when Rio Ferdinand joined us on episode one of High Performance five years ago yeah that sounds great right here he is talking about Ben Foster and the Carling Cup Ben Foster he hadn't grown up at Manchester United he got brought in from Watford I think it was great lad played in the Carling Cup final we won he was man of the match put on a great performance and I remember an article he'd done when he left the club and saying that I was sitting in the change room and I looked over in the corner and the Carlin Cup was just sitting there on its own and I couldn't get my head around it they weren't celebrating there wasn't a party there wasn't what I expected anticipated seeing and I was sitting there I was all at a time I can understand it now but at the time I was frustrated I was thinking that's why you're not a Man United player that's why you had to go that's why you had to leave because you don't understand like you didn't you didn't buy into that early enough that we got a game Tuesday at Champions League we just won the Carlin Cup but what are you going to do celebrate and then all of a sudden put yourself at a negative starting point for the next game against I don't know Roma in the quarter finals of the Champions League no thanks we've got that's bigger bigger pictures over there won that thank you in the back pocket see you later on to the next one Now you see that to me makes total sense because I've worked with Rio for many years right and you know the conversation we were just having before that clip about outside influences and other interests every time I was sitting with the best footballers not the ones who had okay careers but the proper elite footballers you know the Paul Scholes the Frank Lampard's the Steven Gerrard's the Rio Ferdinand's they all had the same opinion you know that if a player was focusing on something else then it was detrimental to the to the game of football I can still remember in my head hearing Rio go it just needs to concentrate on football he should have nothing in his life other than 24-7 football and I do feel Damien as much as we've just had a conversation that it's healthy I feel that if you're going to get to the top top top of your game the absolute elite I do feel that single-minded determination that winning comes above absolutely everything including having fun like I do think that's what gets certain people to to be the best in the world in all honesty yeah and I don't disagree I think that that idea of having that clear-eyed focus that idea of what like what's your intention my intention there is to win and is everything geared up to doing that is is really good but I think it's the ability to flick that switch and when you're at home make sure that you know you're doing everything right you're eating the right food you're getting to sleep and doing the basics but I do think we all need to decompress at certain times and I think sometimes it's the subtlety and the nuance of it that that is worth paying attention to so So I think of the conversation we had with Catherine Ryan, the comedian, where she told us that story.

7:30I think it was related to her comedian colleague, Sarah Pascow, who said she remembers watching Michael McIntyre on TV. And she felt jealous that he had a Saturday night TV show and she didn't. And then when she explored it, she wasn't jealous. She was just envious because she felt that she could do that. so rather than just label something in one way where jealousy can be seen as negative look at the subtlety of the language and say actually I'm envious because I want to do it so what can I do different and I think what what it's a long-winded way of making the point that I think sometimes this singular focus is really really good when you're in that domain or that context but also realizing that if you do choose to be single-minded and you focus there's a cost there's a price to pay for that and that's why it's worth listening to the interview we did with the brilliant Stephen Gerrard on this topic What advice would you give a teenage Stephen coming from Highton?

8:29A teenage Stephen Gerrard from Highton go for it go for it, it's worth it even though the lows are tough go for it, because it's an incredible ride and the highs are difficult to describe go for it, go and enjoy it I suppose in many ways Damien that clip comes back to what we've heard from so many of our guests which is that nothing comes for free you know we spoke to Osir Manura the former NFL player about you know the physical impact on his body and his answer to us was well nothing comes for free I got the amazing joy of playing in the NFL but I know that there is some hits that I've taken along the way that may well come back to haunt me in the future and I think you know if I was to give you the choice right Damien that you could either live a life of incredible highs like Steve and Gerrard enjoyed but also some deep deep lows and in that interview with Steve and he talks about you know leaving the ground where his slip cost Liverpool the chance to win the title and he cried in the back of the car all the way back to his house and cried for a few days like if I gave you the choice of the highs and the lows or a life absolutely straight down the middle what would you choose i'd choose the i'd choose the life of excitement so i'd accept that for every high there's got to be a dip in it but what i would do is i'd i'd go out of my way to equip myself with the ability to learn how to handle those highs that roller coaster and be able to handle the lows so a bit like when we spoke to hector beherin you know he spoke to us about he he'd learned to do that to live life like a candle of not allowing himself to feel the exhilaration that everybody else might feel after a great win but equally then not allowing him to feel the desolation that everybody else feels after a crushing defeat so learning how to live like a candle is probably the choice that I'd do on top of wanting to live that that roller coaster ride what about you what would you do oh mate I would absolutely choose the highs and the lows you know I feel that if you can equip yourself to deal with both so you remember when Robin Van Persie came on and he spoke about how ruthless Louis van Gaal was when he told him like you're gone there's no new contract you need to go I mean we can hear from him now but I also now that I talk about it I remember Rio Ferdinand telling me his last game for Man United Ed Woodward walked into the changing room and said you're not getting a new deal Rio had no chance to say thanks to the fans now you know all those years of giving and giving and giving so if your life is only about giving to get in return then I feel like it's actually more important that you equip yourself with the tools to cope when the bad days come you know and I've experienced that in my second year when things weren't going well I was still scoring 18 goals that second year scoring 12 for the national team so it's not a bad season or something but people were ruthless not good enough bang and then you're on your own and that was sort of like a period where I was thinking yeah I'm not that bad you know telling myself I'm not that bad of a player I'm still scoring okay maybe I'm not like last season or whatever but it was just ruthless hard and then I had to in my last season I had this chat with Louis van Gaaf I think I chatted with you about the Czech where I had two very good seasons with the national team then I worked okay that the season, his first season, my last season at Manchester was not great.

12:00And then I had this chat with Louis van Gaal and then he told me, OK, Robin, our ways will part. I'm the coach, you are the player and you have to go. Your time is up. I was like, yeah, but I still have a contract. He said, yeah, I don't care. Robin Van Persie there. Now, there's a bit that he also said that we haven't listened to, but was in the wider interview of where he before he'd gone through experiences like that he'd had to make that really ruthless decision about his friendship group the people that were with him on that journey to make sure that the people that he was surrounding himself with really were invested in him as a person rather than him just as a player and what the advantages he could give so while his professional life might not have been particularly psychologically safe he'd made sure that he had a personal group that did give him that safety and that allowed him to be able to confront difficult situations like that so again it's another tip for anyone so again it's another idea for any of us that are listening to this that making sure we surround ourselves with the right people can again bring us an awful lot of joy and allow us to perform our best and you know what Damien I think we should finish with a bit of advice related to this topic from a rather well known chef take it professionally not personally i can't stress how important that is getting told off is fucking good really healthy but take it professionally don't take it personally there he is look gordon ramsey with a brilliant bit of advice because whether you are robin van percy and you're being told that's it it's all over for you at this football club or whether you're someone listening to this conversation and you know someone has done something to you and you feel slighted and wronged in the workplace don't take it personally take it professionally and that's really what I think this conversation is about you know who knows if it's fun being a Premier League footballer there are certain elements that are fun there are certain elements that are difficult but I think like all of us top flight footballers need to equip themselves with all of the tools that they need to rely on when the times are good and it feels a bit weird but also when the times are bad and it feels a bit difficult yeah I think that's really sound advice Jake but I think it's worth us as well just reflecting that it's been a year now since you stepped away from hosting this Premier League football and being around that world so how are you finding it um sometimes I find it strange uh like I'll confess I had a weird moment um about three or four months ago I was in the gym at home and I just honestly made I burst into tears and I went upstairs to Harriet and I said I don't I have no idea why I'm crying but I just I think I'm really today I'm really missing it and I think the strange thing for me was I got into telly at 18 as you know failed my a-levels ended up getting work experience and that was my first day in television and I've put on an earpiece and honed and developed and grown and then used the skills of a tv presenter two or three times a week every week from 18 to 45 right which is a long time yeah and for the last 12 months I have not put an earpiece on and it kind of in some ways feels like a waste of the skills and the knowledge that i built up there's definitely an ego hit when you have people come up to you in the street going oh i don't see you on the telly anymore what are you doing now and you are and then my answer is well i have i host a podcast and you can see their eyes roll like oh everyone hosts a podcast when they can't get any work do you know what i mean there's that sort of a reaction so i'm then like it's so funny because this plays into all the stuff that we've just spoken about right I have to remind myself that that is the professional me not the personal me like I'm no more or less of a person for hosting you know Champions League finals and big matches in the Premier League but I think the most important lesson really for me is that if I don't stop doing what I always do I can't do something that I never did before so I think life's really strange isn't it we're always guilty of of seeing what we've got based on the decisions that we've made we have no idea what life would have looked like if we would have made other decisions along the way and it comes back to what me and you talk about mate all i could do at that time was do the best i could where i was with what i had and those things led to me leaving bt sport and and doing something different and um yeah there's no point living with regret i don't think but yeah look mate it's fun it's good fun and i do miss elements of it for sure listen uh let's move on because I've got a we've had a few messages actually from from our listeners um we asked them who would they love to hear on high performance Vinay said Bakayo Saka he says how he's dealt with so much so early in his career with so much poise and integrity is impressive um what about Charlie saying Gareth Southgate again because so much has changed since the last interview I mean it would be I think a very different conversation with Gareth don't you yeah definitely I don't think the fact that he's been through some of the difficult times in comparison but I also think it'll be interesting to speak to him once he stepped away and had a sense of perspective that we've been speaking about how a job can be all-consuming and having done that for eight years and he's been more than just a football manager he's been a politician he's been a cultural leader in lots of different ways I think we'll get some really fascinating insights so hopefully we could get him back on Okay User 1517 Jack Wilshere I mean I would love to get Jack Wilshere on high performance because of all the things we've just spoken about like he is a guy that experienced the highs but also the catastrophic lows and I would love to talk to him about how he's rebuilt himself not physically but mentally to go again as a coach so let's see listen if you ever want to get in touch with the show you can email myself and Damien our email address is hpteam at highperformancegroup.co.uk or just keep an eye on our socials.

17:59So Damien, final word from you. What are we saying? Is being a Premier League footballer fun? Yes or no? Yes, as long as you get the other factors around it right. Wonderful. I think it's a yes and also a no. But hey, such is life. Damien, thanks a lot, mate. Thanks, mate. Loved it. And thanks to you for listening as well. We'll see you very soon for another cracking guest here on High Performance.

18:27Thank you.