Jean Todt: The Mastermind Behind Ferrari and Schumacher’s Dominant Era (E403)

0:00So people who have the idea that Michael Schumacher was overconfident, they've got him completely wrong. Completely. Michael is a kind of shy, generous guy. And he hides his shyness by looking arrogant. To win the World Championship! For the first time in the history, a driver was world champion in the middle of the season. Before starting the new season, he said, could you give me half a day to do some testing to make sure I'm still good?

0:55Never fear a storm. Visit business.warmart.com to get started. I don't know about you, but I love keeping my money where I can actually see it. Unfortunately, big wireless companies seem to like keeping my money too. And after years of overpaying for wireless, I finally got tired of those high wireless bills, the extra fees, the so-called free perks that actually cost more in the long run. So I decided to switch to Mint Mobile. Mint helps you save money on your phone bill. Plan start at just 15 bucks a month, and you'll get high-speed data and unlimited talk and text on the nation's largest 5G network.

1:31Honestly, the wireless service is just as good as the traditional big carriers. So keep your own phone and number, activate with eSIM in minutes, and start saving immediately. No long-term contracts, no hassle. If you like your money, Mint Mobile is for you. Shop plans at mintmobile.com slash HPP. That's mintmobile.com slash HPP. Up-front payment of$45 for three months. Five gigabyte plan required, equivalent to$15 a month. New customer offer for the first three months only. Then full price plan options available. Taxes and fees extra. Cement Mobile for details. Jean, welcome to High Performance.

2:08So many people will see you and instantly be transported back to your glory days as the leader of Ferrari and Formula One. Can I take you back to 1993 when the decision was made to sign Michael Schumacher? Ferrari was not successful at all and they were dying to try to find somebody who could take the job when my name was proposed until I made them it was a long time before I mean we both agreed because I felt it's going to be a very difficult challenge everybody was telling me don't go there you will not last more than two years and for them to take somebody who had no experience of Formula 1 and to take somebody who was not Italian.

2:54So it was a kind of big change. But finally, after long discussions, I think the discussion started in August 92 and we finalized in March 93. The first really dream driver I discussed was Ertan Senna. It was during Monza Grand Prix in 94. Sorry, 93. 93, yeah. 93. I remember he came to my room in Villa d 'Este. We were staying in the same hotel and we spent part of the night together to speak about him joining Ferrari. And he wanted to come. He wanted to come, but he wanted to come in 94. And in 94, we had already a contract with Gerhard Berger and Jean-Alésie. and I said to him, 94 will not be possible.

3:52First, we will not be ready yet and then we have a contract. And he answered to me in Formula 1, contracts are not important. I said, for me, a contract is important. So when did you want Senna to come to Ferrari? In 94. You wanted to come in? Yeah. No, in 95. You wanted him in 95 and he wanted to come. And he wanted to come in 94. But Ayrton Senna wanted to drive for Ferrari. Ayrton Senna wanted to drive for Ferrari. and I heard there were some contacts before me but I cannot talk about I don't know but I mean with me as the head of the Formula One team it was a discussion in September 93 for him arriving in 95 and he wanted to arrive in 94 that's why he went to Williams so after that 94 we still had the same drivers but we were rebuilding the team 95 still rebuilding the team and then we knew that 96 was the year really to try to have and you know very often also amongst engineers some were saying the chassis people we don't have a good engine the engine people we don't have a good chassis and then above all we don't have good drivers so I said okay let's to make sure nobody will be able to say, having Michael, we miss the driver.

5:22So, as he was the best driver, we had to convince to take him. So we discussed mid-early 95, and then we spent one day in Monte Carlo, our lawyer, Henri Pettier and myself, with Michael and Willy Weber, And after one day, we signed the contract. One day. So why were you able to sign Michael Schumacher from a team where he had been successful in one day? I think he thought driving for Ferrari would be different. You know, he liked the challenge. And he, of course, he was very curious, you know, very professionally. He did not want to commit without having some guarantees. And I contacted simultaneously, without them knowing, Rose Brown to propose him the position of technical director and Rory Byrne to propose him the role of chief designer.

6:34And both of them had worked with Michael in the Benetton team. and of course Michael knew about that. And so that's how slowly and slowly we rebuilt the team. In 1996 we won finally three Grand Prix. In 1997 we lost the Drivers' Championship at the last race with this controversial overtaking to Villeneuve where Michael unfortunately did a mistake, but probably the mistake demonstrated a very strong solidarity. Because why you see the strength of a group of people when things don't go well. When all goes well, everybody's friends. What mistake are you talking about there? I mean, the last race in Spain with Villeneuve.

7:36You think that was a mistake? It wasn't when Michael crashed into Jacques. I mean, he crashed him purposely, but he did it badly. In fact, you know, Michael, an amazing guy, every time he lost control, he paid it very expensive. So it cost him the championship, as incidentally in 2006, Monte Carlo qualifying with Alonso, where he purposely spun. He had to live in the back of the grid. It cost him the championship as well. So the two mistakes he did cost him the championship. And some others, you know, I mean, so 97, we lost at the last race. 98 we lost at the last race when he stole at the car and earlier you know when it was when he was lapping Kultar in Spa under the rain you know well obviously the car in front him slowed down unnecessarily could not see and he damaged his car and so lost at the last race 99 a mechanic mistakes made that during the formation lap he lost his breaks incidentally never complained about a mistake which was done by the team he came back in Malaysia at the time we had we had Eddie Irvine who took the lead and incidentally he finished the championship at equal points than Aikinen, but less victories.

9:28But in 1999, finally, we won the Manufacturers World Championship. And we knew that in 2000, that was the last year. Because if we wouldn't have won in 2000, clearly the team would have exploded. And we won. But we won, it was not obvious, because mid-season, I mean I remember in the debriefing where I said we need to win the last four races otherwise team is gone and we won them and then it was a kind of dream period because winning both championships 2000, 1, 2, 3, 4 Would you give us an example a story of a time where you saw a behaviour from Michael Schumacher that you think best explained to people watching this, why he behaved in the way he did, why his behavior was so important, his personality was so vital.

10:29But you know, Michael, in fact, he's a quite fragile human being. He's not the kind of, you know, the typical hard voice or somebody who, in German we say, besser, wisser, who knows better than the others. And I will give you an example for me was amazing and significant of what is Michael after he was world champion before starting the new season he asked me, I'm going back to a private track in Fiorano he said, could you give me half a day where I'm going to do some testing to make sure I'm still good so I mean, and I think it's a big strength not to be sure to be good you know so I think none of us thought we were good we were always scared not being good enough that's why in a way it's a bit painful because we never probably enjoyed as much as we should have done the result but I remember in I think it was in 2004 where for the first time in the history a driver was world champion in the middle of the season in Manicor.

11:52Michael was world champion in Manicor, Grand Prix. And then one race after, we were manufacturers world champion in Budapest. And then next race was Spa, where incidentally, he did not win. And next race was Monza. We had two cars on pole. And I remember myself torturing my head by saying, are we going to the world? how we're going to do it. And then I speak to myself and I think, but you are crazy. What? Why do I care? You have already the most championship. You know, but we forgot very easily. I mean, all that because we're thinking how can we do good next? How can we do better? How can we improve?

12:41We never felt it's done. You know, we always felt we need to do more. And I think this spirit, you know, was, shared by most of the people in the team. So people who have the idea that Michael Schumacher was overconfident and almost arrogant, they've got him completely wrong. Completely. But you know, Michael is a kind of shy, generous guy. And he hides his shyness by looking arrogant. Right. Why does that help him? I don't think it's... You don't do that to help you. I think it's in your character, in your gene. You are like that. And when did you see behind the mask then? To see the real Michael?

13:27I mean, very quickly, because, you know, then, I mean, the problem, we had to fight, going back in 97, you know, all the protection, you realize that he was protected. He realized he was loved, so he, it goes both ways, you know. So clearly, one after the other, from kind of professional relationship, it became friend and family relationship. You've just described all of those seasons, 97, 96, 97, 98, 99, and you still remember the moments that cost you the title in those seasons. Because you know, sometimes people say, what is your best memory? in a way my worst memory is when we lost the title at the last race.

14:19And it happened in 97, 98, 99, 2006, and 2008. Five times. And as that was happening, was there ever a moment when Michael's behavior changed because he was having to be patient, he was having to wait? Like, was he getting angry? Was he getting frustrated? Was he ever saying, maybe I need to leave Ferrari to win? No, I think probably he had some thoughts because he got very good offers from certain teams and so he probably was thinking of it. But I think it was the second or third renewal. He knew he was going to stay for Ferrari. When we interviewed Toto Wolff, he told us an anecdote about coffee cups, that paying attention to detail in his world, he would look for whether there was dirty coffee cups in the reception area because that gave him a clue as to whether the culture was aligned all the way through.

15:30Can you give us any examples of when you've got the right people within your team, how you would ensure that that alignment was consistent? You know, for me, I mean, I'm a detail maniac. So all has to be clinical. I remember randomly every week I was taking the security people and I said, we are going to go through all the factory. You better make sure I don't find one cigarette on the floor. You know, so I mean, for me... Why does that matter so much? Because all has to, you know, it's a mentality. you know if you want to have things perfect I mean to be competitive in in Formula 1 which is pinnacle or motorsport I mean the bar is high so you might be very very focused on making sure that things are perfect and it demonstrates the mentality if people accept to see a burnt cigarette on the floor it doesn't work I love this insight into the management of Ferrari and I fully understand paying attention to detail having stability if you've got good people working with Ross and Rory protecting each other but I think a really interesting part of your management is actually when things aren't so good when you've got to deal with challenges and going back to the incident with Villeneuve in 1997 I'm fascinated how you dealt personally with Michael after that moment I mean first, you know if Michael and so Michael did not know how to cheat he did it from my knowing twice but he did it badly you know I mean it would have been easy I mean he was in first line with Villeneuve at the start you know I mean we have examples two years in a row between Senna and Prost you know so he just had to to break a bit late or something that he could have done at the start he chose to do that 10 laps behind the end.

17:35And do you think when he did that with Villeneuve, was that like instinct? It was in the moment? It wasn't, or was it premeditated? No, I mean, it was just, you know, in emotion. That's why you must be, when you judge somebody in action, you know, you must be very indulgent. It's easy around the tables, you should do that, you should do that. But when you are in the action, you must understand that your brain is reacting differently. And when he thought that he was going to lose the championship because he had to be in front of Villeneuve, he tried to avoid that and he tried wrongly to do it. And he needed support.

18:27It was a bad move. it was unnecessary what did you say to him privately? I mean honestly we are going to protect you we are together you know I mean human mistake I mean humans accept human error did you also say Michael come on you can't do that that's not good enough I mean honestly when we always think if it will happen again what you will do you should not do that but again it's very difficult, I mean, to blame emotion. You need to understand. You need to understand emotion. And then, you know, he did so many amazing things. So, I mean, you have plus and minus. So you have some minus, but you have so much plus.

19:13You know, and I remember before a race, I went, just before the start of a race, I went in his room, in the motorhome, and I said, look, Michael, we have this ID. We don't have money. Will you help? and he said to me, you know, I'm very cautious on all my engagement and all that, but if you tell me to do it, I will do it, of course. I trust you. You know, but Michael was emotional. Look, you know, when it was this earthquake in, I don't remember, in Asia, in Indonesia or something, I mean, where he had this one or two guys of his security was around there at the time. he decided to give without knowing I mean what will be the use of this money he decided to give 6 or 7 millions you know so in a way it was generous but in an emotional manner and do you think that the flawed moments that he had you said in 97 and 2006 do you think that those are the same part of Michael that's also the genius the guy that drove in Barcelona in 96 Hungary 98 you know if you're going to have genius there's also going to be a flawed element to that same you know it started earlier I mean it started when he was very competitive I remember the first time I really realized that he was a quick driver was in I think it was Mont Fuji in in sports car where at the time I was running the Peugeot team and he was driving for Mercedes Mercedes Sauber and I realized he was really good because watching on the screen the lap time and the rain and all that and then I crossed him at the airport and well done he was a young guy you know and then first race he did with Jordan we could see he was special and he had the best car and 92 93 here I remember he was like a machine you know lap after lap very consistent very quick and he developed that but saying that as I said earlier he needed to have the good package because in 96 he did not have the good package but he was still as talented as he was before and what did you learn then about being able to control emotions to then become like a machine and be so consistent I must say It's never a question I raise myself, you know, but I mean, try to, I think it is very important not to lose a sense of reality, not to lose your nerves, you know, being stable, whatever the conditions, the situations.

22:10That is very important. What do you think was Michael's greatest ever race? I mean, if you tell me what was the one which for me was the most memorable, at Suzuka in 2004. Because after all this suffering, this emotion and all that, finally, we got the trophy, you know, and we all were hired for that. And I remember taking him to the podium. I said to him, Michael, life will never be the same because we got it home. And how did he change when the success came? It never really changed. Which is a good thing. You know, Michael,

22:57he knew he was a star, but he wanted to be able to live normally. That's why he wanted to live in Switzerland. He wanted to be able to go in a place without being disturbed. He wanted to be able to pick up the kids at school. he wanted to be a normal citizen which was very difficult So can we talk about your decision then to bring Ross and Rory into the team, I'm interested in the dynamics between you and how that eventually led to success. Anyway it was easy decisions you know, I mean we knew that to have a winning team we needed to take best mechanics best engineers best partners so for me I mean I remember we we had some thoughts about Adrian Newe some discussion with him he did not want to come to Italy I remember I had always a lot of respect for Rory Byrne because when I was running the Peugeot sports cars program I tried to hire him but he did not want to come because he wanted to stay in Formula 1 and And Rose Bluane was a referent, a technical director.

24:20So, incidentally, it happened that they were in the same team. But for me, it wasn't belonging to the team. It was, I mean, the personality of Ross on one side and of Rory on the other side. Incidentally, they did not know I was talking to them. And I remember after I signed both of them, I said, look, now you can mention to each other that you have signed. and they said, I remember, okay, I will invite him for a beer tomorrow. But they did not know. So it was not kind of hiring a package. It was individual discussions and decisions. But what did you tell us about the first meeting when you all get together?

24:59Like, how do you get people to buy into the team as opposed to people bringing their own egos or their own agendas? Michael arrived in 96 Ross arrived early 97 a few months before Rory but I mean it was I mean nothing magic nothing historic just get the job done and did you did you keep the signing of Michael secret from Bernie Eccleston? so yes I mean Bernie you know Bernie who I know very well I mean Bernie he likes always so that he is the one behind so I never spoke about that until the day before the announcement I told him and Bernie after said I knew it since a long time or even I contributed which is not true Explain again why you didn't want Bernie to know No, it's no point but honestly it was not Bernie business it was up to us we wanted to have Michael to deal with Michael and that's it but honestly I don't care if somebody wants to say something even if it does correspond to the reality at the end of the day what was important is to have Michael One of the phrases we use often here is evidence leaves clues.

26:38And there were some brilliant moments like Barcelona 96, where Michael won by almost a minute in bad conditions. I wonder the impact on the team when you're fighting and fighting and fighting and sometimes you just get an amazing result. What did that do for you? What did it do for Ferrari? I mean, it's a refreshment.

27:02It puts pressure for two weeks. and I remember also, you know, enjoying a race success. Enjoyment was between the podium and Monday morning. After that, it was forgotten. So, you know, no time to celebration, no time for, and just be focused because we know that it's very fragile. You know, success is never given for granted. It will never last. It can only last if you put effort to make sure that you may do it again. And of course, as soon as things do go even slightly wrong, there will always be many people waiting to criticize. You know, that's, I mean, if you have some understanding of life, you know that things are never given for granted and will not last.

28:01You know, sometimes the mistake is when somebody gives you the key, you need to know that you will have to give back the keys. And then that's finished. You know, the key will not remain for you all the time. And it will be a mistake to think that it is your belonging. So you might be prepared, I mean, to be involved with the responsibility. You know, I mean, you take FIA. FIA, I left FIA on, I think it was 17 or 19, December 2021. I never heard about FIA since then. You know, so I just... Chapter closed. It's okay. So when you start a role, like, because when you talk about you will hand the keys back one day, it reminds me of, we've met members of the New Zealand rugby team that talk about leave the shirt in a better place than you find it.

28:58how would you like to be remembered when you think back in Ferrari from when you came in to the day you left it was obviously in a better place but how would you like people to honestly I don't have a special wish how I want to be remembered I mean I always said I mean probably my my asset is my credibility and my integrity that for me the most important you know nobody can come and tell me you remember can you give us an example in Formula 1 where your integrity was tested I don't think I can but maybe you have something in mind no I was taken by the conversation that you recounted when with Senna and you said no contracts are important and that's what resonated and I was wondering if there was ever any other situations or occasions where you felt you acting with integrity was questioned or challenged.

30:07I mean, I would offer 2002 when you asked Michael and Rubens to swap on track. It wasn't against the rules of Formula One, but people felt it was against the spirit of Formula One. I mean, I like this question. Yeah. So, we'll be right back after a quick word from our partner. Are you a trailblazer? A risk taker? Maybe someone with countless tales of epic adventure? Well, I'm not quite there yet, but I'm working on it. Even the boldest among us started off small, right? Daring themselves to reach greater goals every day. And if you're looking to take on a challenge like that, the Defender is too.

30:44Now, I've driven a Defender for a few years. It's the best car I've ever owned. It's a vehicle built for drivers capable of great things. whether they're heading towards uncharted territory or just fancy a weekend getaway. Defender was engineered to meet challenges head-on so you can explore with confidence. It's the legendary icon of adventure, reimagined through modern design, fit for a new generation of explorers. My kids love it as much as me. It also has a tough, rigid body tested to the extreme, a modern, functional interior built for comfort. It's a vehicle that, like you, is capable of great things.

31:15And with next-gen technology from 3D surround cameras to clear sight ground view, it will help you embrace the impossible. Explore the full Defender lineup at LandRoverUSA.com. This episode is brought to you in association with Claude.ai. Now, if there's one thing that I'm proud of here on High Performance, it's that our conversations are real, they're honest, they're impactful. You can trust them. But that doesn't mean that we can't use AI. And I've actually really enjoyed creating a template for an interview and then asking AI some pretty complex questions. Like, how can I hone this? How can I make it better?

31:46How can the things that I want to talk about be even more impactful? Because I think that AI isn't just about making your workflow more seamless or more easy. It's also about increasing the amount of impact that you have in the world. And Claude is the AI for minds that don't stop at good enough. It's the collaborator that actually understands your entire workflow and thinks with you. Whether you're debugging code at midnight or strategizing your next business move, Claude extends your thinking to tackle the problems that matter. I also love the fact that Claude can do some really deep research for me.

32:16I'm talking about research for guests on this show that would have taken hours, maybe even days, can be done in seconds. And also, Cowork brings Claude Codes agentic power to your desktop. There's no terminal required, so anyone can use and have Claude do real work. Point it to a folder on your computer or add connectors like Google Drive and Gmail. Describe what you need and it just handles the rest, like organizing files, building spreadsheets, drafting reports or scattered notes. Queue up tasks and come back to finished work. Are you ready to tackle bigger problems? Get started with Claude today at claude.ai slash performance.

32:50That's claude.ai slash performance. Oh, and check out Claude Pro, which includes access to all the features mentioned in today's episode. Claude.ai slash performance. I don't know about you, but I love keeping my money where I can actually see it. Unfortunately, a big wireless company seemed to like keeping my money too. And after years of overpaying for wireless, I finally got tired of those high wireless bills, the extra fees, the so-called free perks that actually cost more in the long run. So I decided to switch to Mint Mobile. Mint helps you save money on your phone bill. Plans start at just 15 bucks a month, and you'll get high-speed data and unlimited talk and text on the nation's largest 5G network.

33:29Honestly, the wireless service is just as good as the traditional big carriers. So keep your own phone and number, activate with eSIM in minutes, and start saving immediately. No long-term contracts, no hassle. If you like your money, Mint Mobile is for you. Shop plans at mintmobile.com slash HPP. That's mintmobile.com slash HPP. Upfront payment of$45 for three months. Five gigabyte plan required, equivalent to$15 a month. New customer offer for the first three months only, then full price plan options available. Taxes and fees extra. See Mint Mobile for details. I mean, for me, it has always been the terror to lose.

34:11You know, because we lost so much at the last race. So probably in certain years, we should have been less cautious. You know, but I mean, let's say the team discipline was after a certain amount of races, it will be a priority to one driver. You know, so in 20... 2002. In 2002. I mean, we started the race. In Austria. Debriefing. With team order. You know, and it was, if you are in front of Michael before the last pit stop, you must let Michael go. And it was agreed. Wrongly or rightly, but it was agreed before and accepted. Because Michael was leading the world championship. Because Michael, and again, because we did not want to take the chance to lose at the last race.

35:12Probably wrongly today. It's easy to say at the end of the season, but it could not have been wrongly. So anyway, it was accepted. And when we were to the end of the race, where an agreement was taken and accepted, I mean Ruben didn't like to commit to what was decided, which created a big embarrassment. So normally I would not go on the radio. You know, that was engineers, Ross working on the race development. So I had to go on the radio and remind what was agreed. and I must say Ruben did not do it nicely and he put the team in a big controversial situation even Michael but it was agreed and then you know I remember I think it was the same year in Indianapolis Indianapolis they were first and second and and Michael waited for Ruben he was leading the race Michael waited for Rubens to arrive at the finishing line together and Rubens passed him.

36:37Yes. You know, you think in a way the candidity, you say? Candid, yeah, being candid, yeah. Of Michael waiting for his teammate to go to the finishing line and we never spoke about that and Michael never complained. so in that moment in Indy or in the moment in Austria what's your approach to management and leading the team after that race like how did you approach Rubens? I must say it was very embarrassing because then Michael was very embarrassed and in fact we got penalized simply for wrong procedure on the podium which is true because Michael was so embarrassed that he gave his position to Rubens so that was the thing you know but honestly it's little to do on that.

37:28But you must have had something to say to Rubens. Of course I did but you know if you are in a bad face I mean you will make your own story but I mean at the time everybody will remember because at the team meeting before the start of the race you have the technical director you have the two race engineers and you have the two drivers so everybody knew about it.

37:54difficult for you but you know that human being that's very again that's emotion we were talking earlier about emotion so I should accept the emotion of Ruben I need to accept the emotion of Michael that are the consequences emotion of Michael had some consequences emotion of Ruben have had some consequences but that's the price to pay well that's exactly the price to pay for being the leader of the biggest Formula 1 team in the world was the embarrassing thing for you that you had to be the person to come over the team radio and deliver the news no it's my job I mean being a team leader means also being a fireman if there's a fire you need to extinguish it you don't leave the fire going on And how did you protect the team after the backlash and the criticism that followed?

38:52You know, in a way, it's a smoke. You know, the team. But, you know, it's better to be attacked, being first and second, than being attacked because you don't finish the race. So, it did not hurt me. So, you know, you spoke earlier when you came into Ferrari and you were constantly asking, how can we get better? How can we improve? when you come towards the end of a chapter, what are the questions you're asking yourself then? But, you know, then, you know, I was saying also it's a life is going from place A to place B, you know, and you don't know what is going to be valid for all of us, you know, and going on place B, you find different things on the road.

39:42so I found FIA during FIA I found UN before that I found Brain Institute, something is sure I decided in 2008 that it was time to give something back you know so for me my interest is to give something back I could have done incidentally I remember something when I left Ferrari

40:15Dietrich Mateschitz wanted me to join. So he came to have lunch at home in Paris with me twice. To join Red Bull? Yeah. Oh, really? And he really wanted, he was keen, you know, and he did not like to travel, so he came twice at home. In what job? To do what job for Red Bull? I mean, to run the team and to run motorsport activities of Red Bull. And I say, no, because for me, this chapter is over. I was running the kind of iconic brand with success. So in a way, I could not do better. And I wanted to do other things. So it was time for me to give something back. It was the period of my life, and it's still the period of my life where I want to give something back.

41:06in some world where there is even competitivity, money, people forget that. That's why for me it is important to travel, to see poverty, to see people who don't have access to medical care, people who don't have access to public transportation, and to try to give a little hand, little, it would be very presumptuous to say that we are changing the world, but even giving little. You know, see eyes of people who are in the need who smile, make people smiling. It's a win. It's a different win, you know, but I think it is very important. When you were the president of the FIA, sadly Formula One lost Jules Bianchi in an accident in Japan and he later died.

41:57How did that change the way that you saw the world? I mean, you know, we started a discussion by saying motorsport is dangerous. So a lot of effort, you know, and incidentally we're talking Max Mosley, a lot of people who are in charge have been putting priority on improving safety. you see that in motor racing you see that in motorbike racing and incidentally that's one of the reasons I consider motor racing as a laboratory and we must do something you know I will I will cover that in a while but so between 94 when Ertan Sena and Roland Ratzon Berger die the same weekend you know it had been even more priority on safety governing body, teams drivers and unfortunately it was the accident of Jules Bianchi which was devastating I mean for the family for the sport, in a way for my son who was his manager, who loved him like his brother and

43:27we only thought of putting even more effort and then in 2009 it was Felipe Massa you know Felipe Massa got in the in lap he got a chock absorber of Ruben Barrichello which almost destroyed his head. So I really said, we need to do something. So I asked engineers, what is the most vulnerable part now after all the progress which have been done? And the head, cockpit. But we need to find something. So I got proposal about the LO. And I said, okay, let's work on it. And incidentally at the time, the one who was in charge of this program was Laurent Miquet, now running Red Bull. And I asked him to work on the project, and he made a proposal.

44:33And when the proposal was presented to the teams, certain teams, certain drivers, a lot were against. They said, it's not Formula One. So my question was to engineers, is it going to protect the head better? The answer was yes, so we'll do it. And I remember Romain Grosjean commenting the day of the announcement of the decision, saying it's a sad day for Formula One. And a few months after, he lost his car, the first lap in Barren, and he went through the barrier. And the barrier was like a knife. without a law he would have lost his head which he admitted so that was probably the best answer that it was right to do it the work that you're doing now although linked to sport and movement and cars and travel is very important it's very different to Formula 1 what gives you the thrill for the work that you're doing now with the UN I mean simply because first of all I consider that life is a book you know, with a movie so with chapters I was blessed enough to have a few chapters in what was still is, incidentally, my passion but then I thought I've been quite successful I was in a way quite comfortable in my life and on the other side I think it's very important never to lose sight of what is happening globally in the world And something which is hurting me quite a lot is discrepancy between wealth and poverty.

46:24So I thought I would put my kind of reputation for something different which could help those who are not as fortunate as we are. So clearly, I mean, it started in around 2003, 2004 by doing something around the medical institute, which is called Brain Institute. And it's something, you know, I've always been, I mean, very scared by being hurt in motor racing. And we know that motorsport is dangerous. And it has improved significantly over the decades. But unfortunately, during my career as a co-driver, as running a rally team, cross-country team, endurance team, I was feeling accident. So I thought it was time to give back.

47:27After I left Ferrari early 2009 and very quickly I was elected president of the FIA and FIA, we have two different responsibilities. One around motorsport as a regulator and the regulator of motorsport and the other one by being the umbrella of automobile association, you know, which is fascinating life for road users. And I realized the number of victims on the road, at the time, 1.3 million people were dying on the road every year. And about 50 million people were injured with full-time disability. And it's the number one cause of death and injuries for young generations from 5 to 29. I said, I think it's something which has to change.

48:26Incidentally, I give you this book, A Silent Pandemic, you know, because everybody is under the threat of having a road crash. So, of course, depending on the countries, it's different. Incidentally, the UK is one of the best countries, so you should be proud of that. But 90 % of those figures are occurring in low - and middle-income countries. So, as the president of the FIA, I had some contact with international organization, and I thought it's something we need to address with UN. I was fortunate to be able to be introduced to Ban Ki-moon and his team, and we had a very good discussion, very good contact, until he decided on the 1st of April 2015 to appoint me for the first time as Secretary General Special Envoy for Road Safety.

49:24And I was passionate about that. I thought it was a great responsibility, but it was always going back to chapter. It was also a way to give something back. And since then, you know, it's a kind of renewal agreement. I'm reappointed until the end of this year. Then we will see because it will be a new election for the Secretary of the United Nations and all that. But still, at the moment, it's something which takes quite a lot of my time and where I feel passionate even if, I mean, I must confess that a lot needs still to be done to address properly this silent pandemic. Look, the fact that you're 79 and can talk so passionately for so long about that is a good reminder to people that keeping passion at the heart of what you do in life is so vitally important.

50:21Time for some quickfire questions, Jean. From your amazing career, what are the three non-negotiable behaviors that you think are most important in life? I mean, I said integrity,

50:37honesty, and humility. What's the single best piece of advice you've ever received and why? You know, for me, advice is to learn by example. I don't think somebody really told me you should do that or not do that. But, I mean, you learn from yourself. You see and you learn by behavior. I always said for me the most fascinating thing is human being. You know, population of the planet is 8 billion people. We all have the same specifications. And you have 8 billion prototypes on Earth. And it's fascinating. and you don't know how it works. What is your biggest strength? Hard worker, never give up.

51:30And your greatest weakness?

51:37Maybe a bit impatient, a bit not very tolerant and to have a too big memory. and finally your advice to people that have listened to this conversation about how they can live their own high performance life i think you but you know i mean you you can see you know very often i think people are getting lazy in certain parts of the world you know and you know why asian people are developing so much because I mean the commitment, you know, I think high commitment is very important. And the tendency in the developed countries is people are less committed. So I'm more with, you know, maybe I will be unpopular, but I hate teleworking.

52:35You know, for me, the best way to, I mean, to have success, to communicate is to be together. you know eye in eye working together collaborating together not through a video yeah Jean thank you very much for your time absolutely fascinating thank you fabulous thank you