Keely Hodgkinson's "Insane" Year: Using Spirituality to Overcome Injuries & Setbacks (E375)

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2:24And think about your longevity. This last year has been the most insane year of my life. I went to get my MBE. Two days later, told my hamstring I'm out for the season. Yeah, if you choose to 800, you really like pain. One of my talents is like how hard I can push my body and get the best out of myself. There's a bunch of comments, people being like, you should be embarrassed. She's too busy making TikTok videos. There's so many hours to kill. I'm going to do whatever I want. that is the voice of Olympic champion and as Damien refers to her queen of the north Keely Hodgkins and you were so excited to have Keely back on the show I mean it's been over a year since she was last with us and you know sometimes when the team say someone's coming back on I think well we can't have the same conversation that we had a year ago so do we really need to get someone back into the chair so quickly but I am so glad aren't you that she came back on well definitely what's that quote you like to say about stepping in a river uh the The best time...

3:24Oh, yeah. Yeah, I was giving you a different Stoic quote there. Yeah, the quote is, no man steps in the same river twice because the river is constantly flowing and therefore it's constantly different. And that's exactly what we found with Keely once. She was liberated. There was more maturity. And I sent somebody that was content and from that contentment is a springboard to go on and do even greater things. You know, I always panic when you ask me to relay a quote because I basically read nice stuff and then repeat it like it's my own and then forget them instantly. And I think, is he going to ask me?

3:55Is he going to refer to something that I've totally forgotten? But you're totally right. I think what we got here, and I hope you at home enjoy this, because we feel we got a front row seat actually to her evolution, mental evolution, physical, emotional. She opens up about her post-Olympic gold journey, how she's striving to keep hold of the freedom that she had before. I'll call it the effort and do it mindset that changed everything. She discusses embracing pain with us, why she loves the process of seeing how good pain can make her. And, I mean, what about the spiritual shift? How many current athletes at the top of the game would come on this show and talk about the importance of spirituality?

4:32No, very few. And I think she gives us a real raw look at what motivation means for her and how she's built a confidence by going and doing the inner work before she manifests itself in the results that we've seen. You know, so often we feel that we meet high performers who aren't necessarily very happy, right? and then we ask the question, are they really high performers? Well, you're about to meet someone for whom living is not just about being fast, it's about being happy. And both of us felt at the end of this conversation that happy is the word that sums up Keely at the moment. So it's time to let her take it away as we welcome back to high performance the brilliant Keely Hutchinson.

5:15Hello. Yes, she is. Hi, Keely. Good to see you. I'm sorry, I'm late. It's all right. to see you. You too. You are still the queen of the narfs so don't worry you can do what you want. Well here we are. Hamo doesn't give him that lightly those titles. Oh no no queen of the narfs yeah definitely. Right let's do it. Keely welcome back to High Performance. Yay thanks for having me back. So the last time we spoke it was July 2024. Yes. It was pre-Olympic Games. Now you're here as the Olympic champion. Oh. That went bad. yes quite right applaud yourself yay I did it what's different about the keelies sitting in front of us from the one that we spoke to oh god probably so much you know like this last year has been the most insane year of my life I would say in every way possible like personally on and off the track like just if you'd have said to me in like January this is what's gonna happen this year and this is how things compare and this is what's like how you're gonna feel I would have been like, we need a movie about this.

6:21So I think I've just had a lot of growth. I feel like a different person. I think I look like a different person. And it's just been a really exciting year, even though there's been a lot of troubles and hardship. Like, I've cried a lot this year, but I've also laughed just as much. So, yeah, I'm really happy. So if someone decided to make a movie about this last year, what is the moment in the movie where someone would go, hold on, that's too far, that's not even believable. what is the thing that they would say we can't even put that in because it's too crazy can't even put it in um i wouldn't even say it's one i think it was just the series of events like i've never i've been injured a lot this year so we're going to talk about my career like i've i've been hurt and i've had injuries before i've had things like that and i think it's just having it so close to a season i've never had that and it's almost like you couldn't write it it was almost like one good thing would happen i went to get my mbe that was an incredible experience two days later told my hamstring I'm out for the season it was just the constant contrast of like amazing things happening okay now we're at rock one so I think that's what has been challenging doing things like that and balancing everything like becoming Olympic champion was the best moment ever but also came with a lot of other things a lot of opportunities a lot of fun stuff to do like I really enjoyed my time after the Olympics but like I did get hurt in Paris and didn't finish my season last year.

7:43So I had enough time to like recover with that, but then also enjoy everything that was coming. But then once that was over, I was like locked in, tunnel vision. I was actually more motivated than I'd ever been, which is so interesting because after Tokyo, I probably, I think I spoke about it with you guys last year, I probably hit a bit of a stage of depression after that and everything was hard work and training was hard work and everything just felt very mellow and down. whereas I was like flying high. I was like ready to go, wanted to like, we had the Keeley Classic come out in February which was my own track meet which was really exciting.

8:19Wanted to run in that, didn't, got hurt two days before. There's just that constant up and down but it's life. See I was taken with the conversation we had last time because I went away and looked at some stats where the Danish Olympic Association recorded that 27 % of athletes reported moderate to severe cases of depression. The IOC suggests that it's about 35 % of elite athletes suffer post-Games blues. Can you relate to that? Yeah, definitely after Tokyo. I think that equipped me for what was to come in Paris. So I was like already not prepared. It sounds really depressing when you say like, you don't get too high, so you don't get too low.

9:07I'm very good at keeping my emotions very stable. So I kind of knew coming off the back of that year and everything I've been for the last couple of years of championships and this and that, how to sort of manage that come down a little bit more. So I almost think coming second in Tokyo is probably the best thing that could have happened to me. It allowed me to work towards something. I'm still so young. I was 22 in Paris when I won gold. and also just learn how to manage everything afterwards because I definitely wouldn't have coped with that in 2021. So how did you manage the downs then? I think just surrounding yourself with good people.

9:41I have amazing family and friends. I was trying to understand it. I think it's important to like just, if you try and constantly brush something off, like I'm fine, I'm fine, I'm fine. It never goes away. So I think it's good to sit in the emotions and like let them pass through. If you want to cry, then cry. if you don't feel like doing it today, make that known. But then the other part of me is also like, you know, here you're a professional athlete, you want this, you want to train, you want to go out and do this. So you're forcing yourself to do it. It's a bit of a conflicting moment to be in with your brain because you don't want to do it, but you do want to do it.

10:12And you almost feel guilty for not wanting to do it. But you know that's going to get you where you want to be. So it was a real interesting time. I think I learned a lot through that. It definitely equipped me for coming after Paris, where I've not really had any of that this year. It's a good insight that though, isn't it? into the sort of mental gymnastics that you have to undergo as an athlete. Because people will think 90 % of your life is about making yourself into the perfect physical condition. Yeah. But we're talking already about the perfect mental condition, which is equally as important, maybe arguably more important.

10:43I think more important, 100%. I think you can do everything physically to be like the best you can be. I think I probably learned this in Tokyo as well, just going to the World Championships. that was probably the most underconfident I've ever been going into a world championships I was really like trying to fake it till you make it like just telling myself to be confident and hyping myself up but I would say mentally is definitely the edge I think that's what I'm good at I think that's one of my strengths keeping calm under those pressures how to shut that little voice up in your mind that's telling you everything that could go wrong or you've not had the right preparation this season you're not where how it's been the last couple of years I'm in a whole new territory hoping it goes well so is that why you think you weren't confident going into Tokyo because of the story of the year it was a bit of a weird one so I obviously opened my season in August like literally five weeks ago which is mental and I've never had to do that before I've never had I'm not an athlete that needs loads of races when it comes to track and field there's some athletes that like to build into their season they like to get a few to like dust off the cobwebs I've never really been that type of athlete.

11:48I can come out and just bang. Because Trevor and Jen, who are my coaches, they know what they're doing. They're amazing. I know what I'm doing. We've been doing this a long time now. So opening so late, everything on the mind was, I didn't even think I was going to compete. We'll start there. I didn't even think I was going to compete this year. I tore my hamstring in May, and I was like, oh, God, this is bad. I didn't want to miss all championships, but at the same time, my body's clearly something that's not right. This is the third injury I've had back-to-back in the last year. so that was getting my head around that then it was okay week by week you get injured rehab back into the rehab back on the bike then it's okay let's try run I started running end of June and I put my spikes on for the first time just before London Diamond League so mid-July and I raced in August so this was like just mentally getting over all those things and like you turn up to training it's okay am I going to run today maybe maybe I might feel some fear maybe it's not today maybe it's next week so when i finally got around to being in race shape training ended up going really well we were very surprised but also not completely surprised because i had spent the entire year training just doing alternative training so the fitness was still there i just needed my body to be able to cope with the demands needed for me to run really well over 800 so everything was all about make it to the start line let's just race i just want to race i don't care how it goes i would just like to race i ended up being really good shape so then i thought well I don't have time to waste.

13:13I need to just bang one out. So I absolutely went for it, sent it in Celestia and ran a world lead 154, which was, I was such an amazing day. It was kind of just like the reward from everything and the hard work and all of that. And then it was, okay, let's do one more race. And then that's it. That's all I've got going into Tokyo. I haven't raced in a year. The last time I ran, I became Olympic champion. And that's that. So then going to Tokyo, it was kind of like, I was confident, but you normally need like at least six or seven races, at least. If I was to compare it to Georgia, my training partner, who did really well, she's ran 23 races this year, including the indoors, which I was also meant to do, but didn't do.

13:53And what does that give you that you need? I think if I look back on the final, you could tell I was not race sharp just because it's that practice of running with people. It's that not panicking. it's the composure it's you know it's it's just practice and we've had that long out maybe I underestimate a little bit that I might be okay because I've had two good runs but this year the best way for me to run it was just to absolutely send it because I hadn't had the training that I'd normally had to be able to sit back or do this so that in itself was a bit of an underconfident so I knew going into the final I was gonna have to be quick because I didn't have that change of pace that I normally would have that I had at the Olympics last year and you don't know what the people are going to do when it comes to like you watch the 400 they'll run in a lane nobody gets in your way and 800 I have a plan but everyone else also has a plan and they want to beat you so that's where it gets a little more complicated and I think my lack of races probably showed in the final just with getting caught up at the front with what was going on there a lot of surging if you surge in 800 meters it's going to kill you in that last 100 and that's exactly what happened but overall I think it's been an incredible year and to to finish with a medal on the podium, not the color I would have wanted.

15:07But I think there's like so much to be proud of them. Absolutely. Yeah. If you're still overpaying for wireless, it's time to say yes to saying no. At Mint Mobile, their favorite word is no. No contracts, no monthly bills, no overages, no hidden fees, no BS. I made the switch because I was tired of those ridiculous bills and sneaky charges from my old provider. With Mint, I'm paying$15 a month from getting the same high-speed data, unlimited talk and text, and coverage on the nation's largest 5G network. Honestly, the quality is just as good, if not better than what I had before. And the best part?

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17:08there's two things you said there though that really intrigued me one is around that that first race of the season when you set a world best and you said i went out there and didn't care about how i did how do you keep hold of that sense of just going out there with that with what sounds like a bit of freedom yeah that's been another challenge i've learned this year um i did a lot of talking with Kelly Holmes and we're good friends and she spent a lot of her time a lot of her career injured and I thought who better to talk to than someone who's literally been there and done it so I spent a lot of time talking to her and we just kind of really focused on like you just have to focus on yourself back in like May June and everyone's running and I'm sat on the sidelines watching and I really want to be there that was really tough I didn't enjoy that at all but I just knew okay just gotta ignore it anything can happen in a season like literally anything I can not run in now but then I ended up when I think a lot of people probably thought she's not making it to worlds whatever but I was so focused and so locked into just what I was doing of like making me the best so when I came back to be able to run that no stone was left unturned that I was ready to go so that I had no seconds to waste like nothing so I was just real tunnel vision very much focused on myself I think that's just kind of what paid off for me I guess I think going into races it was just focused on what can I do how can I spend a lot of time learning how can I run the best 800 meters for me and then if we're gonna get into the whole science of it it's like what's the first 200 running what you're coming for in 400 and that's exactly what I did in Celestia I just ran the splits to exactly how I know to to run that certain time and the race just went extremely well there's obviously a challenge that it might not but overall the mindset was just I'm just so happy to be back out here racing I had my Nike I'm sponsored by Nike and they do the Olympic champion call away and I was like good because I thought I'm not even going to get to wear this Olympic champion call away because you only get it for a year you have to then win the world champs and things like that so I was just happy to be back out there in good shape in spikes and just competing again yeah my second question then is you spoke about how you learned to silence that little voice on your shoulder reminding you of what you haven't done or the preparation that hasn't gone as well as you wanted how on earth did you learn to turn the dial down on that voice?

19:32Our voice was very loud this year I think more so not in my ability to race but just in a trust in my body I'd never torn my hamstrings before and they're quite a big they're not really a nice one to do they're not comfortable one to do so I couldn't sprint or anything like that so on the start line in Celestia I was more it wasn't a case of was the race going to go bad I think it was more like is my body going to be able to cope with this am I gonna get to 500 and like feel something and then like I remember coming down the back straight and being like is my hamstrings okay and you don't want to be thinking about that is you do not want to be thinking about that in a race because it's off-putting it's something and it's a doubt so that's been the biggest challenge even going into training I remember that week going into the race, I had a session and I thought I could feel something in my hamstrings, so I didn't do it.

20:18Which going into the first effect, that's not what you want at all. I'm like, this is so not it, but it's my mind playing tricks on me. So we're just having those things and even going into the World Champs, it was still there, still there now. I'm still trying to get rid of it and I'm hoping going into this new season, I can put all that behind me now that it's over and build up that confidence again with my legs. But I would say that's the biggest thing and I have a very much like F it and do it mindset I kind of just get up and get on with it and just like if it's going to go it's going to go and if you don't even try you're going to be even more pissed off than it would be if I didn't So are you mentally stronger now than the key we spoke to a year ago?

20:58I think so I thought I was pretty mentally strong then but I think I've definitely grown a lot and learnt a lot and I would be naive to think I was going to go my entire career and not have any problems like this like i said i've had injuries before but nothing as challenging as this um and i think it's actually really important i went through it to be honest i think it's taught me a lot i can take this going into my future and think if you can get through that and all those mental mind games and all that then well we're taught aren't we from a very young age that hard things are bad for us right yeah but actually avoid at all costs hard things can sometimes be the best thing for us What is hard for us isn't necessarily bad for us.

21:38What do you look at over the last 12 months as your own personal lowest moment? It probably was back in like May, June. I think that was just the tip of the iceberg. And when you're going through, are you feeling down and things aren't going well and you're wondering why are things going well? And then the world that we live in now as well with social media and people all of a sudden now have an opinion on what you're doing. And I think from the outside, it really came across like I was doing anything but training, which was so far from the truth. But when you're in those low, normally I would just ignore those things.

22:18I'd be like, well, I know what I'm doing and da-da-da. But when I'm not competing, I keep getting hurt, things keep going wrong, I think they affect you more than what you think. And you start not believing it, but you're like, oh, maybe that issue, like maybe I'm not focused or this and that. And I think that was probably something that was a bit hard to deal with at the time. And I didn't have that last year. There wasn't as many eyes on me, I guess you could say, in terms of what I was running, what I was training, what I was doing. If I just did anything outside of track, it was like, she's not concentrating, she doesn't care anymore.

22:48And that's so far from the truth and so far from who I am. I don't let anything affect my work. I'm so adamant on that. so I think it was just a bit annoying to have that as well as then like I'm doing my absolute best to get back like I all I want to do is run but that's me after just reminds you that social media is not real and again just focus on your own thing when we spoke last time one of the big themes that I took away was about motivation because you told us the story of your dad offering to buy you a pair of shoes from Selfridges and the Greater Manchester Championships when you're a young girl and then you told us about you were setting the target of a beige porsche was your reward did promise yourself a gold medal first of all did you get the porsche and secondly what have you used to motivate yourself since winning that gold um i did not get the porsche i did test drive one though it was so low like it was hurting my 22 year old knees I was like, I actually can't get in and out of this.

23:53I literally had it for four days and I was like, I actually cannot. But it was a beautiful car, but I didn't get it in the end. And then what have I used to motivation this year? To be honest, like last year I enjoyed competing so much. Like I enjoyed that feeling of being in the best shape of your life, being able to put on a performance, like win races, just being able to do what you've worked so hard for was literally all my motivation this year. that's all I wanted to do I didn't have anything anything special or anything I just wanted to be out there I wanted to be on a start line be announced as an Olympic champion and just be dominant in what I know that I'm good at so that was kind of just in my mind on replay the whole time I was in rehab trying to get back on the bike I was like when you get back and you're running really well it's going to be so good so see but I found that interesting because again I think one of the things that I took away from that chat last time Kaylee was your ability to navigate along the spectrum of motivation from intrinsic right the way through to rewards you were promising yourself.

24:55So what was it you were sort of focused on, like intrinsically, as well as running, as well as you could? Were you setting challenges about, this is what I want to be better at, this is how I want to be perceived by arrivals? I think a good thing, when you get injured, you have so much more time to, I have not travelled as much as I spent between April and July at home, which I never get to do. And with that time, I got to see my family more. I got to see my friends more. I got to do, I just wanted to just enjoy life. I think sometimes when athletes get injured, it can very much go, like you said, not to punishment, but it's like tunnel vision.

25:33And I was very much locked into that, but I always make sure that I'm also living life as well. I, you know, I got to see my friend and her boyfriend from the DJ set. I got to go spend loads of time with my family and do all these nice things as well as what I'm doing and it all worked out I think that's what's really important for me so I think maybe that's another way I'm a different person now I don't look at those things as like goals that I want it's more just I just want to enjoy every little thing that comes my way and just have a good time with that and surround myself with great people and experience good things and have you lost any of the kind of the innocence, right, that you might have had pre-Olympics.

26:13Because I sort of, I look at both these two stories and I think, of course, you were in great form mentally, physically going into the Olympics and then went and won it. And that in itself is absolutely praiseworthy and incredible. But actually, it tests a whole different side of you when you're injured and you've got scrutiny and you've got expectation from other people, but also from yourself and your coaches and the other athletes that you're competing against because you're the Olympic champion. and then you mix all that up with you know the self-doubt that comes with not being in the perfect physical shape i think that being able to perform in flow is amazing well done but also being able to perform when it's not when it's not when you're not in flow and things aren't going your way is very different but i think also there's there's an innocence that kind of disappears when suddenly you put onto your instagram that you're off out for a meal and people assume that means you don't care about your work right have you had to change how you kind of interact with social media because of that i try not to yeah i really try not to because it's just me i'm just having a good time but it was like after i did get the bronze at the world champs you know there's a bunch of comments people being like you should be embarrassed like what a letdown of a show like and that's obviously not nice it's like oh she's too busy making tiktok videos but i'm like there's so many hours to kill when you're out there doing nothing i want to do whatever i want i think i just comes back to like in this life.

27:38You really can't just do whatever you want. You just got to block out what people say. So, but like I say, when you're in that low point, that's when it can affect you more. Even though I got the bronze at world, I wasn't happy with it, but I did the best I could. Like I look back at the race and I'm like, there's probably a couple of areas I made some mistakes that might cost me, but it's over with now. What can I do? I can just have to take what it is, learn from that and then move on to the next. I'm very much a person. I take one day to be sad about it and then I don't even think about it again do you you literally give yourself 24 hours and then yeah 24 hours to cry be upset maybe think it's so and so what did I learn from that and then okay it didn't happen carry on you see one of the the ways that you can solve this is by leaning further into training further into hard work you know more early mornings more early nights another way that you can do it is by getting your mind in the right place and that I wanted to talk to you about spirituality because there's some lovely quotes actually that you love spirituality that you've said.

28:35You said, I'm quite spiritual. I believe that things are going to happen. Yes. What does that mean? I've been on a real journey with spirituality this year. I get really into that. I just believe that within the universe, everything is already planned. It's already made. It's going to happen. That's probably one thing that I tell myself sometimes before races. I'm like, all you need to do is show up. It's already planned anyway. wait, what's going to happen is what's going to happen. I think that really keeps me grounded and keeps me present in that moment and not to stress too much about what's going to happen.

29:11And you can take that into everything in life. If you make a wrong decision, it doesn't matter. The path is already aligned. You'll find your way back around. If you're debating breaking up with someone, well, it's okay because if it's going to happen, you guys will get back together in the future. That's just how I view life and the spirituality seems to be the best thing that fits me with that. So I just find it super interesting. And I just think everything for me always happens for a reason. I can always find a reason that it happens. So even looking back on this injury, it might take a couple months or weeks or maybe even a year to figure out why that may have happened.

29:46But I'll always be able to see the lesson and learn from it. I'm very big on like, I'm quite self-aware, I think, very big on like self-growth and looking into that and how can I be a better person or how can I do this better what can I learn from that what's this taught me what's this person in my life it's going to teach me and I don't know I think it's just real interesting it's kind of deep but I just really like that kind of stuff. And what's prompted this exploration into spirituality? I think I just maybe crave a deeper understanding of life I don't know without getting too deep so I find like human behavior is very interesting how our past can shape our perspectives and everybody's got a story and a journey and what makes them who they are and how you can be influenced by people around you and it's such a real thing like who you surround yourself with really can impact you and I'm the type of person if I'm around someone with a different accent I start talking like them and even just things like that why does that happen why do we pick each other's mannerisms and what can we learn from this and if something goes wrong well why did that go wrong what was the lesson there and I don't know I just think you get a lot of self-reflection from it and you can really connect with people from it and just think about things a bit more.

30:58I kind of like doing that. So often here on High Performance, we talk to incredible people about their routines, their habits, the tools they use to achieve high performance. But you know what? It's not just our guests that need to be on top of their game to create this kind of stuff. Behind the scenes, we've got a whole team working, planning, researching, refining our content to bring you the very best, most powerful episodes possible. And therefore streamlining our workflow when we've got a lot of people creating a lot of content is absolutely essential. So I thought we'd do something a bit different today.

31:29And I'm quite excited about this actually, almost, well, I think it is actually for the first time. We're going to take you behind the scenes on what happens here on High Performance. And I'm not alone to do this. So hi, Will. Hi, Jake. So Will is our OG producer. You were here right at the beginning, right? Six years ago. What would you say things would look like for High Performance then? It has changed so much from how we work as a team then to how we work now. So let's lift the lid on some of the processes behind the scenes that keep the show running. Okay, well, let's do that. Because Will and I are currently working on a Google Doc.

32:04Before we go any further, how are you finding being on the mic? A little bit strange being a side of the mic, not going to lie. Well, you've been good so far. Better than Damien, actually. So we use Google Workspace and Gemini across everything in the business, whether it's Google Sheets in the finance department, our guest scheduling, managing, summarizing, responding to emails. We absolutely love it. So let's have a little look then at the work that we're doing. We've got a bank of questions we're trying to create for a sporting legend that's joining us on high performance. So we're going to ask Gemini in Docs for some fresh thought starters around our guest and 10 thought-provoking questions for an elite athlete about the psychological challenges of dealing with setbacks and rehabilitation.

32:48And immediately, straight away, it starts giving me things that we can think about. And I think the biggest thing, right, is you get mental fatigue when you're doing episode after episode after episode. They kind of all blend into one. You kind of need something just to go, what about probing in this area? Have you thought about attacking it from this angle? and I think that that's what Gemini does for us. Yeah, let's look at some of those questions. There's one here that said, how do you handle the pressure of an uncertain return timeline and the fear of re-injury both mentally and emotionally?

33:17What do I like here? Can you share techniques to stay present and focused during matches, blocking out distractions from the crowd, opponents or personal pressures? And I think that the nice thing about these questions and when you work with Gemini a lot and you feel like it understands you and the show that you're working on and the kind of things that you're after, It gives us great questions that are kind of adaptable for our audience to use because we're not all elite sports people. We're not all business gurus. We're not all going to change the world. But I think we can all learn from these kinds of questions, right?

33:46Time is so important when we're recording so much. And, you know, we've got multiple things going on in the week at once and it allows us to have generalize that. It's like a creative partner in a workflow, you know, moving faster, thinking a little wider. And I tell you, on a personal level, right, I used to feel a bit overwhelmed because I felt like being the person that does the interviews it was all on me to come up with the questions and then I started asking you and the rest of the team to help me with that stuff and then I felt bad again because I thought like oh I know these guys are already stretched so actually the work that we've done with Google Workspace that the opportunities that Gemini offers for me personally it just makes me feel like I can kind of come to you I can lean on you I can ask you questions and actually you are able to get the latest facts the latest studies the latest information and great questions and it's fast it doesn't sort of take hours and hours of your time which makes me feel better yeah and uh we use it in another cool way as well during the interview uh if you're in there and there's a lot of guests coming up you know i get to write messages and tag you with a document to say you know someone's here you know we've got 10 minutes to wrap this up that's a rubbish question yeah can you ask better questions can you ask questions like damien does um so there you go i'm talking of wrapping things up, I think that's exactly what we've got to do because we've got our guest arriving in the studio in just a minute.

35:02So look, I hope for you listening to this, that's a really useful snapshot, not just behind the scenes of what goes on in high performance and the kind of effort that we go to to bring you the best guests and the best conversations, but crucially how Google Workspace and Gemini is genuinely helping our workflow. It enables us to do stuff that we just could not even imagine just a few months or years ago, and we use it across all our departments. It's great for inspiration, important for organization, and powerful for collaboration. It is really, really powerful AI built right into the tools that you already know.

35:34And it can make a genuine difference to businesses of all sizes. So if this has got you interested in thinking, how can Google Workspace or Gemini help you do your best work faster, just go to goo.gle forward slash 10 stories. That's goo.gle forward slash 10 stories. I think it's brilliant. I mean, I love the phrase amor fati, which is Latin for accept your fate. Yes. Kind of, it will be what it will be. But also this idea that things don't happen to you, things happen for you. Yeah. So even when you have a bad race, when you have a bad training session, when you get an injury, that hasn't happened to you, it's happened for you.

36:16Yeah. There's a learning in everything. I agree 100%. Don't you think? There's a lesson in everything. Yeah. I think for me this year, all of this bad stuff happened genuinely for me to just actually realize how strong I am how strong of a person I am what I can cope with and just this is probably the first year where I've looked back and it sounds insane but where I can I actually really feel proud of myself and that's my style obviously I won the Olympics actually I've done a lot in my life already at a young age but I just feel like against all odds I just kept pursuing and kept pushing through and like just wouldn't really take you could argue that like well fate was maybe saying you shouldn't be doing that because it kept going wrong.

36:54But I was just like, no, it's just another challenge. It's just trying to test me. So if we could wave a magic wand and remove all of the challenges that you've had in 2025. Say that again, sorry? If we could wave a magic wand to remove all the challenges you've had this year. No, I would say no. You wouldn't take the deal? No. I would keep it because I just think it's been like such an interesting part of my life. It's definitely been a... What do they call it when it's like a year? Everyone has sometimes, every now and then, the year that just changes everything. I definitely think it's been one of those and it's changed me for the better.

37:28I honestly wouldn't change a thing. I don't think this is new for you though because just around the time of COVID, you also put up a nice quote, which was make sure you test positive for faith, keep your distance from doubt and isolate yourself. I was my dad actually. My dad sent me that on the morning of the Olympic final and I just like wrote it in my book and I was like, you know what? I like that because it's very relevant what was going on at the time. We was out in Japan. Nobody was there. We couldn't leave the hotel. It was very isolating. And you could argue you had a lot of times just sitting in your thoughts and overthink and having to take COVID tests every morning, even wear a mask all the time.

38:05It was a very different experience obviously in Tokyo this time. But I do like a good little quote that just kind of re-censors you and just makes you not think so much. Sometimes it really is just so simple. All I've got to do is run. And is that what this does for you? It removes the need to control everything? Yeah. I think when you're in a profession and you want to do really well and it's only me out there I have a whole team of people that I work with an incredible team but I'm the one that's got to go out and perform and not everything's going to go right like example in Tokyo the warm-up was a bit of a mess out there because it was so far away from the stadium and things like that I remember the first round my hamstring got tight on the start line and in my head I'm like oh no I'm I'm going to survive this race.

38:49So that was like another hurdle to like mentally overcome. You're in control of everything. I'm in control of what I eat, of what I put in my body, how much sleep I get. You know, if I warm up properly, if I do my recovery properly, all these things I've got to control to hope that this two minutes of my life goes right. Sometimes it can be a lot mentally overwhelming and like, have I done everything? Have I done this and that? And I just like to go, if you have one muscle of water keelies, is it really going to make a difference? No. Move on. Is that what you'd said to yourself just before you compete?

39:18uh maybe not that exact moment but it might be like because people get into superstitions I think sometimes and when you're traveling around the world so much like I've got you've got to be flexible like they might not have an ice bath you might have to wing it in the shower or do something here and there like you've got to be open to be flexible and I think that is a good thing to get into because when it's not available and you crumble what are you going to do when you're like on the other side of the world and no one can help you and because you've got the superstition in your head and I totally get superstitions as well but I broke mine this year so I used to always race with my rings off I would never ever wear them and then and my jewelry as well I just always take it off I have done for years and then this year I was kind of like no new keely we'll keep it on and then I raced with it all on this year it's only something small but I was like that's so interesting why was that significant?

40:09Well, I feel like it was a change. It was like a change in me. I was like, I can say it sounds so stupid like she races with her rings on. But I think that was a noticeable like no, we're in a new era. This is a new me. I like to wear my jewellery. I'm just going to keep it on. It's going to make no difference. I train in it all the time. And then it went really well. More freedom, literally that. Otherwise I'm there in the call room trying to pull my rings off my finger. It's not good. You said you wrote that quote from your dad down in your notebook will you take us into the pages of that book oh i should have brought it with me but that one was so when you're at the olympics they give you like a little notebook um because i had that paris one and then there's japan one in tokyo where you can just write things down there's a lot of things to kill and stuff but i'm very much a visualizer a drawer a writer of notes mine looks more like a mind map than it does like a written entry but i just like to say little of things myself that I might write down that keep me in that confident winning mindset of I can do something you know I might draw the podium and there'll be a GB flag on the top or look at the medal or draw where I am and just kind of like visualize all of that and very much someone that maybe that comes into the spirituality of like manifestation that I'll see it and believe it so much like it's just got to happen and it hasn't worked out every single time but I've been here enough more often than not i think it's powerful um and i can't really say the science backs it up because there isn't an awful lot of science right about visualization but the evidence backs it up that people that spend time thinking about these things they get the results they want but there will be people listening to this now and they a bit like i think we're feeling like we feel like we are talking to a different keely than the one from 2024 where you were still an elite performer but you were an elite performer who had figured everything out to get you to win a medal right and everything was kind of pushed towards that whereas it almost feels like you've let go of everything i'm going to know i'm going to go out with my mates and i'm going to put it on my social media and i'm going to ignore criticism and i'm going to wear my jewelry when i run and i'm going to lean into spirituality if it works for me like this kind of letting go of stuff rather than controlling things obviously is really powerful for you and i think it's fantastic because very few athletes that we've spoken to have found freedom during their careers yeah we speak to them when they've retired and they go oh i was finally able to let go of controlling every tiny part of my life and i wish i'd done it earlier yeah i didn't enjoy it and i think the most exciting thing here is i feel like we're talking to someone who will be enjoying what she's doing because she has that freedom yes but a lot of people won't have that so what could you share with us to help those people that think god i'm still just trying to control my life to get it to a place where I wanted to be that's really hard because I think it's not easy to say oh just let go like just let go everything because it definitely is a mindset and then do you think you can change your mindset and change how you approach it but you have to be willing to do the work to do so and that takes time you say what it takes 90 days to break a habit so for me there's a really good quote that it's like what you're not choosing you're choosing and it's like three stages to change something you think about it and you're like oh I'd like to be like that and you do nothing about it you think about it maybe start and then it doesn't really go so well so then you stop and then there's the third time where you actually do it and I think you just got to ask yourself like how much is this affecting your life what would you like to be like and why why are you not trying to do that because you'd have a much happier life for me this year I definitely I feel like my 19 year old self again in some ways I feel like a new version of myself but when I was 19 in the Olympics I was such a carefree teenager and I remember thinking I don't ever want to lose this carefree teenager inside of me because I think that what is what makes me so good at the racing I'm like very much like say effort and go for it and that's that young naivety of like you don't really fully understand and as we get older our experiences shape us our perspective changes things become more intense.

44:18They feel like they're more important, but really it's the exact same thing. So I think for me, it was really holding onto that like inner child of whatever. Did you lose that 19-year-old Keely at one point? I think I did over the years, yeah. After that Olympics, I took on a lot more responsibility. I grew up quite quickly, stepped into adult life. I mean, I've lived by myself since then and I did one year university and dropped out. Yeah, responsibility came quicker and I think when that does come, like being an adult, it does hold you back a bit it does make you think you become more fearful of things of what can go wrong and what can do this whereas the young teenager in you would be like well who cares I guess go home to my parents house and do whatever it doesn't matter and it's really hard to change that as an adult because you do have more responsibilities you shouldn't ignore them but I think it's just like going back to who you were I think yeah I don't really know how I'm trying to say this if it's making any sense no it does yeah it reminds us of we've spoken to a lot of athletes in various sports that talk about there's three things you're describing one is the expectation you put on yourself or others do it a reminder of your own ability but then the consequences of failure and if the weight of expectation or the consequences appear too too heavy or too severe we often forget just what we're capable of we stop focusing on our own ability you start thinking about just everything that can go wrong or what's not right And the human brain definitely looks for the negativity before it'll find the positivity.

45:48And there's like another quote that I like, and it's you always think yourself into a bad mood, but never into a good mood. You always think yourself into negativity rather than positivity or how bad something can go rather than how good it can go. And I do think I've definitely tricked my brain into thinking the more positive side, like, oh, but this could be so good, even though it's a bit scary or it might not go well or I'm probably more like the way I think it's going to go well more than it's going to go bad. So when it goes bad, you're a bit like, oh. Yeah, but what does it do for you to think things are going to go bad?

46:20Like they still might. They still might. But I can't see the benefit to believing that's going to happen. No, and if you think that, most likely it's going to happen. And it's that state of anxiety. And when I was younger, I never used to think anxiety was a thing. I was like, anxiety, what's that? I don't understand what people are saying they've got anxiety. And then I experienced it. And I was like, oh, that's actually horrible. When was that? When did you first experience it? I think probably last couple of years. You just get anxious about, I don't know, teenage girl, growing up, young 20s.

46:53Like life comes at you. You have relationships, friendships and things like that. And that was the first time I've ever been anxious. And I was like, this is horrible. What did it feel like? I couldn't eat. I couldn't sleep. It was especially after that 2021. I was quite anxious that winter. I didn't get much sleep at all. And it was horrible. I hated it. I didn't understand what was happening to me. I was saying to my mom, like, why do I feel like this? I don't understand. So once I experienced it, I was like, okay, this is actually a real thing. But I like to flip. I think anxiety is quite a negative word.

47:22And I just try and flip it into, like, excitement. Because your brain doesn't, it knows the feeling, but it's your brain telling you what it is. So you get anxious for a race, but I'll call it excitement because I'm also excited to be out there. So I think just little things like that, little habits you can change that can change your mindset completely. You just got to want to be consistent with it. See, I find this conversation about mindset fascinating. I was looking at a 2007 study in a magazine called Sports Psychologist where they looked at like super athletes, like the world's best. And they identified 30 key attributes of mental toughness.

48:01Oh yeah, I've been interested. 2007? Yeah, it was done in 2007, the study. but there was four dimensions. It was attitude and mindset, training, competition and how you handle post-competition. But the mindset one was the one that they said stood out the most in terms of athletes. And for you, the bit that I'm really wanting to explore, Keely, is the management of pain. There's a quote that stood out for me that said, even your laugh alone tells us it's an interesting place to explore. Why do you laugh at that? I have a weird mindset when it comes to that. Well, I wonder why it's true because there's a quote that said, In the 800 metres, pain is not a possibility, it's a certainty.

48:40How you handle that separates contenders from pretenders. Yeah, if you choose the 800, you really like pain. I'm not going to lie. I have, when I'm training, like, training is so hard. I can't even comprehend how hard training is. I was at the track on Friday, halfway through the session, throwing up feeling awful and i still get up and run carry on and being able to put yourself through that because by choice yeah because you want to apparently i want to do this um it's definitely a really interesting mindset i like to look at it as um how much pain can i put myself in like how much can i tolerate i read like that sounds really messed up it's like who's hurt her but um I find it really interesting because the 800 does hurt.

49:30When you're doing those lactic sessions and your legs are burning, your head's spinning, I literally can't barely see for hours afterwards because you've really put your body through it. One of my talents that Trevor will say is how hard I can push my body and get the best out of myself. But something that's helped me on a daily basis through that is just rather than, oh my gosh, I'm dreading this so much. And I do have those days, don't get me wrong, where I think I don't want to be in pain today. This is going to really hurt. I've done the session before. It takes however long. I'm going to be sick.

50:01I hate being sick. When I'm sick, I cry. So I'm crying mid-session. I just think like, okay, the more pain I put myself in now, the easier it is on race day. I love race day. Race day doesn't hurt half as much. The race hurts, but the adrenaline is so high, sometimes I can barely feel it. But I was interested in, you know, have you ever seen the Tim Noakes work around the central governor? So he's a professor of physiology. I think, who says that when your brain tells you you're exhausted, he estimates that actually it's just like an early warning signal to say. You can go one further. You can go further because he was interested in how athletes do that final kick at the end of a marathon, for example, where they look exhausted two miles earlier.

50:45And I'm interested in how you've learned to override that pain. So you go, I want to welcome this rather than fear it. Yeah, that is an interesting one. um I think your body and mind goes into like a fight or flight where it's like well Olympic gold's on the line you think you're dead but if you don't give it that extra everything and then you fail you're gonna look back and be like well why why didn't I try hard on that most athletes when they're on their stock line they're giving it absolutely everything and And I think it's that the desire to want to win or want to achieve a certain thing or just get everything out of themselves overrides the pain.

51:29It must do because we continuously do it all the time. So for me, you do all that pain. Training is definitely way harder than racing. So when you do all of that, I'm not going to let a little bit of lactic pain in my legs mentally stop me from giving it my everything. I think you just become tolerant to it. You become used to it. And yeah, I don't really know how to explain it other than that. Other than like, it just comes with the job. You know, we've always said this thing like, and I've heard it from athletes for years, like the harder I train now, the more successful I know I'll be when it comes to competition.

52:02Like I wonder whether there's actually any evidence about that. Yeah, I'm 50-50. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, because you can go too hard and completely burn yourself out and kill yourself. I think it gives you the mental, it gives you that sort of mental calmness to go, well, I've given everything. so if I don't win I don't win but also I'm more likely to because I've tried whereas maybe if you had the doubt that you were half-arsing it in training for the last six months maybe you wouldn't perform but I'd be interested whether actually giving 20 % less actually means 20 % less on track I don't think it would yeah it's interesting because I think definitely in terms of elite athletes if you were to line up everyone in track and field there definitely will be athletes that work harder than others and there will be some that are more talented that my one of my other favorite quotes is um hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard and if you can have both that's when you get these like incredible performances and human beings like sydney mclaughlin and shelly ann and you know these sprinters and long distance runners that we have what are you what am i what talented or hard working or both i think i'm both i think i'm both um i work damn hard i have a really good mindset and i i obviously have talent there it's just a weird thing to concede like i have talent in running around in a circle it's a bit of a weird thing to be talented at but it works for me why is that a weird thing though i think that like it's just a bit random in it well yeah but then like if you look at the multiple intelligence theory the idea that everyone's clever something yeah you know and like your your your intelligence manifests itself in on the track and your ability to yeah read a field and go further than most.

53:42Yeah. I guess I think sit there and sometimes think, like, why did I choose to be good at this? Like, I don't really know. Yeah, but also you didn't know, did you? Because you have a God-given talent, right? Yeah. So I think that's another area which we can explore, which is if you have got a load of talent, it's kind of hard to reward yourself and praise yourself for having that talent because you didn't choose it. If you also work so damn hard that you're throwing up and crying mid-training session, then you're allowed to praise yourself for what you've achieved yeah because you've added the personal hard work to the god-given ability yeah track is a real interesting one for that because i think genetics obviously plays a role i was born this way there's nothing i can do about that and you can have everyone line up in the women's 800 you know someone will be stronger than me out there somebody will be faster than me somebody will have more endurance than me but when it all comes together whatever I present that's just that works for me and what they do works for them and it's like who is the best and this and that and it's a real interesting one because like I say hard working there are some athletes out there that purely just absolutely work their ass off and that's how they've gotten to where they are obviously they'll have some talent but there could be someone that's even more talented than them doesn't work as hard therefore hasn't achieved as much can I just ask you to share with us what a training session looks like that has you throwing up halfway through it.

55:04Because I kind of assumed you do a lot of 800 metres. No, I never run 800 metres. You've never run 800 metres in training? Never. That's weird. It's like a footballer, not kicking a ball. Yeah, yeah, no. We do... I run over at home, so I'll do like 1K reps, we'll do long minute reps, like 8 minute reps, 4 minute reps, and then on the track... What are they? What? 8 minute and 4 minute reps. So like I run for like 8 minutes. If I'm fit in the winter, say we'll do by a session, we'll do like three by eight minute runs. And we'll be running for eight minutes at maybe around five minute mile in, five minute per mile pace.

55:42And then do it again and then do it again. And how much of a gap? I hate those guys. Like two minutes? Oh, 90 seconds? Two minutes? I haven't done them since last year. And they're going to be coming up in the next couple of weeks. And I'm not looking forward to it. And then I also do hill training. And we do track work, gym work. I do some sprint work as well because I'm trying to bring down my 400 stuff so we have a real mix of everything but in terms of the 800 I never run 800 metres on a track ever in training, no the furthest I'll do is 600 what's the reason for that? well I'll never go over 600 metres on the track as well so for all the track fanatics out there that's because I think Trev likes to keep it that when we go to the track the mindset is it's fast so all my faster sessions are always on the track I never do tempo or longer stuff around the track.

56:30That's a good, that is actually a brilliant thought, isn't it? I've given up my secrets, sir. Well, imagine all the young athletes who are wondering how they can knock a bit of time at 15 years old off their 800 metres and they suddenly realise, oh, right, so I just run 600 metres faster and I do the extra 200 in the competition. Yeah, so we'll do sessions and the track session of the furthest I need to run on the track will never be over 600. That's just the way I train. If you were to ask Georgia, my training partner, hers is different because she trains for the 1500 but yeah she's also obviously really good at the 800 as well she does both but I'm more 400, 800 so this is just how I train I think yeah Trevor just likes to keep it the mindset of the track is fast you associate the track with being fast so all my sessions on there are either kilolactic or speed work and everything kilolactic that's when I'm crying I'll try to if you think of a session yeah good I'd love to just get from you a session imagine if I could do it I don't think I could one of the worst ones we have would be three five hundreds off seven minutes five minutes seven minutes yeah and that sounds like nothing explain that so you have 500 meters and you're hitting it above what your 800 pace would be but not quite like sprinting um but it's enough to get that like lactic phase so lactic kicks in after 42 seconds of running at a certain speed is that is that something like that i think I think that's just a general for everyone.

57:55I think Trevor told me that. Mine's more 4.2 rather than 4.2. Yeah, so I guess you run that. It says 40 seconds. But then before it slows you down, it's an energy booster. So your body will turn it into energy at first. So you'll actually be able to go faster off of it. And then comes a deceleration where your legs feel like bricks. And when does that kick in? After 42 seconds. But the 42 seconds, it gives you a boost. It starts to come at 42 seconds. and then probably in the 800 probably around 500 meters it comes in and that's that feeling when your legs feel like they're swimming in bricks and you can't move them and then literally the 800 is all about how long can you fight that off for and who can fight it off the best because that's coming to like slow you down and stop you you know the oxygen deprivation and things like that running at that pace so that's that kind of session three 500s we'll do it once we'll do it again and then we'll do it again and the idea is to get a little a short gap again no like seven minutes okay and you know the longer the recovery the worse the session is when i first saw the session i was like oh three five hundred that's like nothing i didn't get off the track for half an hour i could not move i felt if i if i looked up my eyes were seeing black spots everywhere my head was banging i was going to be sick and it's one of those things that you literally unless you've experienced it and you want to go do a lactic session you won't even understand what I'm talking about but for the athletes out there that have they yeah you know that that stuff is brutal and so if you're laying on the track for half an hour after you've done this what are you thinking 100 meters from the end of that third run that's going to leave you on the floor for half an hour like how are you still moving I can lie down and not get up after this is what I'm thinking so I'll line up on the last rep and think okay it's like you've got 400 meters and then you can literally not get up it's done but I also like to just think like it's one minute of your life.

59:49Like it's one minute of pain to get through and then you've got the rest of your day to recover. And are there any like warning signs? Like what are the physical cues that you'd know the pain's about to hit? Say in a race, is there anything that you sort of recognise that you go, here it comes? You can just feel it. You can feel it trying to slow you. Your posture starts going. So we work really hard on our core, keeping like, trying to keep us flowy state as possible. There's not like there's a right way to run, but there kind of is. Like technically, and what can be the most efficient, that's definitely something I've worked on the last couple of years.

1:00:26How can I run the most efficiently to get the most out of every single stride? But you'll just start slowing down. Your arms might start going, your back starts arching because your legs are falling off from beneath you. And I remember, if you watched my last like 10 meters from Tokyo, the lactic really hit me that last 50 meters. I thought I was going to fall over. And I just remember there being bricks, and I'm like trying to force my leg in front of the other and fighting it. But I'm just, I'm used to that. But do you go from, because it sounds like the first 400, you're almost in that flow state of your running and not even thinking about the process of running.

1:01:00But that last 100, you suddenly become very aware of everything. Yeah, the last 100 for me sometimes is where the 800 starts. Like it's when it hurts the most, it's when everybody's struggling and it's like who's got what left or who can keep it together. You know when you see people like actually fall over over the line they've got that they've given everything their body physically cannot move anymore it physically stops you which is kind of insane so why do you love this pain? why do you want to be punished like this? have you actually ever asked yourself that question? I think I just like the process of like seeing how like I say seeing how much pain I can tolerate and seeing how good it can make me I've obviously found over the years I'm quite good at this 800 thing I'm quite good at track and field and it's given me an incredible life I've been to some amazing places.

1:01:46I love the life that I live. I literally love it. I wouldn't change it. And the only thing that's going to get me there is to keep putting myself through this pain. So I've got to find a way to love it, to not be scared of it. Because if you're scared of it, you're not going to push yourself as hard. You're not going to be as good. And just really embrace it. But don't get me wrong, it is scary sometimes. And do I want to be getting on my Tuesday morning at 9am thinking I'm not going to be able to move for the rest of the day. And this is going to hurt me like hell. But for some reason, I keep coming back for more.

1:02:15Can we talk about Trevor for a moment? Of course we can. Because people have heard his name mentioned an awful lot. Big Trevor. And Jenny. And Jenny. And the whole M11 gang. What is the secret to getting the best out of someone else that you've learned from them? Oh, Trevor is such an interesting coach to me. He's obviously known me since I was 17. So I joined him when I was 17. And he has watched me grow from this young teenage prodigy into a young woman. live life, perform. We have a really, really great relationship. Like I would consider them almost to be my second. People joke and say, like if I was ever get a boyfriend, like, well, they've got two sets of parents to impress.

1:02:58So it would be my parents and then my second family. And they've got a little daughter as well. And she's the sweetest. Trevor's way of coaching is very relaxed. He's very good at understanding what people need. he understands me so well he knows what makes me tick and he knows how to manage me and he's it just his environment is all about happy athlete as a fast athlete so we take our time at training some of the other groups when we're at camp are like you guys are at the track for ages and we're like yeah we're not in a rush we get everything done properly we have a laugh we have a joke my favorite thing about training is he takes nothing too seriously at all if you go So what was it like after Tokyo?

1:03:41Honestly, we didn't even talk about it. We just went straight to the karaoke bar. Did you? Yeah. But you and Georgia and Trevor. Yeah, yeah. That in itself can be great coaching. My family, the Nike employees were there. We were all just having a good time in the karaoke bar. Didn't even talk about it. He gave me a hug and he was just like, I know. And I was like, yeah. I still don't even think I've spoken about it with him, to be honest. I've been back. I came back and he's on his holidays now. And I've got this one more race to go, but we'll have a debrief later on. But maybe he knows that you didn't need something in that moment.

1:04:09And that's a good... Probably. He knows I'm not the type that needs loads of people around me after a bad moment. I don't like it when people come and like, they know you're disappointed. And I think sometimes, and they mean it in the kindest way, they just want to be sincere. But they look at me like someone's died. Yeah. And I'm like, it's okay. It's just a race, like it's okay. And I don't like that because it makes me feel like I should feel worse maybe than what I do. And I shouldn't be okay. where I'm like, no, it's fine. It is what it is. It's done now. And I don't need to talk about it.

1:04:42I don't need you to tell me how you think I could have done it better. I just want a hug and I would just like to move on. That's how I approach it. And my friends have gotten used to that and they're really great with it. But after Tokyo, as much as I was disappointed, I wanted to cry and I was upset. I was also like, well, it's done now. I can go and have a good time with my friends and family and with G and with Trev and celebrate the fact that we made it through this terrible year. yeah well I thought it was notable because Jen was doing the the punditry once here in the studio have you seen uh I've seen bits of it because one she was really good she was really insightful before on but it was her reaction afterwards and yeah she just spoke about how proud she was of you there was nothing about the about the the colour of the medal it was more about what you'd been through and the journey and what you'd experienced so it's nice to hear that's as consistent in front of this camera as it is in the shadows yeah they're great people honestly could not ask for a better coaching team like we have no problems we all get on and to have such a big group now we built a bit of an empire in manchester with the m11 and we've got international athletes coming over and they know what they're doing and they're doing an incredible job so but you used a lovely line early on keely when you said about i've just got a rumor on the track twice yeah and it's but it's literally the simplicity of it is that the kind of messaging that trevor and jenny will offer you don't overcomplicate it yeah i think what really helps as well is jen's been an athlete she was a world-class 800 minute athlete in her time she's been through it and there's a lot of things that she'll say that will manage from that so when it comes to balance here's an example as an athlete sometimes you only take time off when your body tells you have to so that's when it's reached its end it's you know you got her or this and that that's the only time an athlete tends to stop where she's like I wish that I would you know been more relaxed on a weekend at Christmas or done this or done that she's like I probably would have enjoyed it a lot more so we take things like that on board and she's like you know if I was at this so-and-so race like I used to think about what everyone else was doing I don't want you guys to do that don't do that do this instead there's definitely really helpful that we have that insight that she's been and done it everything that they've built now was learned from her career and she had an amazing career but it's like now they know so much more and they can pass it on to us and it's just incredible to have access to that and for them to be so near to where i grew up like it's incredible i grew up seven miles away from them and is the can you think of one incident where they've made a real tangible difference just a bit of advice or wisdom they've passed on to you probably all the time we have lots of chats I think what works so well with me and Jen and Trev is that it just flows so easily we almost like teach each other things I think when Jen was competing it was a bit of a tough time in terms of there was quite a lot of doping in the sport then she lost a lot of medals due to that and she just didn't want us to feel that way I think she probably went for a period of time where she was quite neglecting of the sport and I think it's a lot better now.

1:07:52I don't think that way at all about when I'm competing. I think it just probably goes back to the enjoyment of it. It flows really well between us because I think they understand me, I understand them and we sometimes don't even need to say too much. So I can't really pinpoint a moment where I'm like, she said this and that changed my entire perspective. I think we just, yeah, we teach each other things. she's learned that through my naivety and carefreeness of a 19 year old that while this relaxed approach maybe does work and that's how we should look at it like remember i'd call her and i'd be doing my makeup and she'd find that funny because she's like you're just so relaxed and things like that so i think we just learn from each other and there's the things that she'll tell me where i'm like oh okay i'll consider that in my next race or there's some people as well that i race that she also used to race in that like crossover period all right so there's actually 21 years between me and Jen but towards the end of her career the young people that she used to raise they're now the older end and I'm racing them so it's quite an interesting dynamic but I think overall we help each other along the way in terms of making decisions I'm now at a point in my career where I understand the training I understand what does what and why we do certain things where I'm starting to have a little bit of an input in what I do so when I was coming back from the injury in July me and Trevor were talking and he's like I'm thinking of doing this session and I was like yeah I like that one because I know that's going to help me do this and he's like oh I love it that you can understand it now and we can have this conversation and you can say like you know what the session feels like and maybe don't put it there and and do it like this and it's become a real partnership now and it's yeah it's a great place to be in that level of trust.

1:09:29You mentioned about that obviously the shadow of doping that that cast uh a pall over jenny's career in some ways do you ever go into any of these big championships though with that concern that you're going to be racing against somebody that might be cheating i actually haven't so far and i think it was a big thing at the time and it was very public obviously with the russians and the things like that but i think one thing we learned from her is you just can't think that way because it can make you very angry it can make you feel like you're missing out on things and if something like that's going to come out in the future it will come out big believer in the truth will always come out and you've got to take it for what it is at the moment I know I'm a clean athlete we work really hard I do my very best and yeah that's all I can do really I try not to think too much and I do think that the governing bodies doing a really good job of I think they've cleaned up the sport in the last 10 years or so so how does it serve you I think you might be racing, doping athletes.

1:10:28It doesn't serve you in any way, does it? No. You can't control it? I literally don't even think about it. There's not even a point. That's a great place to be in as well because you don't want to be thinking about that on the start line. One final question before we go on to our quick fires is just goal setting. You've mentioned a few times being single or having a boyfriend. Do you have a plan for that? You've mentioned a few times your family, spending more time with them. There's a world record that stood since 1983. that I'm sure you would love to demolish for various reasons. There's other Olympic medals to win.

1:10:59Yeah. With this idea of freedom and flow and accepting my fate and being spiritual and allowing the universe to come to me. Yeah. What is your relationship with goal setting? Oh, so I think up until this year, I used to kind of think that maybe like you can't have it all. But I've come to realize I think you actually can. I think you really can have it all. Like I think you can have the family and the amazing kids and you can have the job and the career and you can be successful and you can have great friends and family and it can actually all go right at the same time. I'm very young to be saying all that, but I do think that's possible.

1:11:36So when it comes to goal setting, I just, I don't really goal set. The limits are endless. I just let it come to me. There's ideas that I'd want to do. You know, there's brands I'd like to work with. There's events I'd like to go to. There's medals I'd like to win. World records. that's definitely a big thing I really want to get near that world record the indoor and outdoor one I do think it's possible sometimes when you set goals I feel like it puts a limit on it like what time do you want to run this year well I don't want to put time down because what if I exceed that and if I put in my head okay I want to run 153.7 and then that's the limit then what if I want to run 152?

1:12:13So we will move on to our quickfire questions but we spoke a long time ago to the entrepreneur lady called Susie Ma who created Tropic Skincare. Okay. And she said one of her biggest learnings was that purpose really matters, right? Yeah. But that, in her mind, infinite purpose is the thing that matters. So instead of you saying, I want to set this time, I want to break this world record, I want to win this medal, your infinite purpose should just be, I want to be a better athlete and a happier athlete every single day. Well, if you're a better, happier athlete every day... They'll come. Everything comes.

1:12:45Yeah. I really believe that as well. And that also taps into that spirituality side a lot. bit where it's just like the fate is going to happen and you can have ideas and manifestations and things but ultimately what it's going to be it's what's going to be so i don't really get down if i miss out on opportunities you know if i can't make a front cover of something or i can't do it what it'll come back around like it'll come find me if it's meant for me i think that's freedom letting go and just letting everything happen i think it's really empowering um and let's make that then the first quick fire question if you were to set yourself an infinite purpose what would What would that sentence look like?

1:13:20I think you literally said it, to be a better person and a better athlete every single day, both on and off the track, not just in my career, but also who I am with my friends, who I am with my family, the type of person I want to be. All that's really important to me. So, yeah, I try every day to be a better person. Nice. And if we were to project forward 20 years when you have retired, what would you want your fellow competitors to say about you? oh um i'd want them to say that i was like a fierce competitor that they really enjoyed racing me and that i and also that i treat everybody with respect and humility is humility the right word yeah i i'd like to think that i'm really respectful to my competitors i don't think i'm completely better than everyone else that obviously you have to think that to a degree but I respect everyone on that start line because everybody's trying to do the same thing and yeah I just want them to say that they enjoyed that era of competing with me and they look back on it with good memories If you could give some advice to a younger Keely what would you tell her?

1:14:28That your time will come, everybody's time always comes and I think when you're younger and you get caught up in these, you might be racing or looking at what the people are doing everybody's on different trajectories you can think oh why is that not happening to me why am I not doing that and everybody's time comes you just have to be patient and let it flow if you could go back to one moment in time what would it be and why I would go back to Paris last year just because I had all of my friends and family every single person I cared about in one place in Paris all having I was able to give them a core memory to remember and it was a big moment for me and I think it's just rare to have something like that happen in your lives and being able to celebrate it with every single person that's like had an impact in your life that's so nice final question just to leave our viewers thinking about this your one golden rule for living a high performance life after everything you've been through over the last 12 months what does that look like now it would be on the lines of just being happy for everyone else as well as yourself.

1:15:37I think when I was like sat back and I couldn't do anything and although that was really frustrating for me, me sitting there with bitterness or jealousy or anger is not going to get me anywhere. I was still very happy for my training partners to be doing so well, very happy that everything was going well for everyone else and what's going on in their life and just focusing on what I want to do and what's going to make me the best version of me. What a kind and lovely way to finish and as you love a quote I'll leave you with one. Pay attention to those who don't clap when you win. Oh, I like that one.

1:16:09Yes. You want to watch those ones. Watch those ones. Yeah, they're out there. They are out there. Keely, you seem in a great place. It's been lovely to have this conversation. Like I said earlier, it's rare for us to speak to current athletes in a state of flow and calm and contentment who kind of understand that it is just sport. just running around in circles. That's literally it. What a crazy life. Well, you're the queen of the narth, Keely. Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. Well done, Keely. Olympic champion.

1:16:44Damien. Jake. How do you think the Keely that we've just spoken to compares to the Keely we chatted to in 2024? Oh, night and day in many ways. It's been such a privilege to sort of see her development, But not just on the track and the trophy she's won, but just the confidence, the self-assuredness, the self-awareness seems to have gone up several levels. It was really, really nice to witness. I just think she seems happy. I know that seems like a trite thing to say, but do you remember in the real early days, and actually for the hardcore lovers of high performance, they might remember us talking to Sean Wayne, the England Rugby League manager, and he said, I'm never happy.

1:17:23Do you remember that? And it was like a badge of honor he wore that he was never happy. And he thought that got him to the very edge. And I think a lot of athletes, I think a lot of high performance, high achieving people delay their happiness because they believe that that takes them away from getting closer to high performance, right? And I think we've just spoken for an hour to an elite athlete who realizes that you can be at the top of your game physically and mentally and at the same time be happy, at the same time be in flow, actually enjoy your life. and actually I think of all the hundreds of people we've spoken to who are athletes, and I think it's a crying shame that they've never enjoyed their careers in this quest for success because only after your career do you realise, well, what was the bloody point if I didn't enjoy any of it?

1:18:07And I think she's learned at 23 years old that that is actually the secret. Well, even if you take the answer to the question of what's the one moment in time you go back to? Listen, it wasn't the gold medal. It was having all the family and all the people I loved. in one place, having a great time. That's somebody that isn't allowing their successes to define them. I mean, another interview, as you cited Sean Wayne, do you remember when we spoke to Kyle Frampton, the boxer, and he felt like he had to win that third world title or his career would be unfulfilling for him rather than seeing that what he'd already done was incredible.

1:18:44He was allowing himself to be fine. And he didn't win it. No, he didn't win it. And I remember us both saying at the end of that What a shame for him that he's almost, he can't just accept what he's done and already just be happy with that. And yet that's what Keely's just demonstrated to us. You can go to the top of the mountain and enjoy the journey. I'm so pleased for her. And by the way, you can do it in a different way to those around you. Like her sort of journey of spirituality, being into crystals. I'm sure a lot of people in her world that deal with data look at crystals and go, what are you talking about?

1:19:17That's not going to make you a faster runner. but if it works for her if being spiritual works for her then it works it's as simple as that well she's proved that we can all do it in our own way but I think understanding and incorporating happiness into the journey is essential for anyone that wants to not only get to their definition of high performance but to sustain it too it was great cheers mate loved it thank you well look Keeley thank you so much for coming back on High Performance being so honest being so truthful with us That is a conversation that we feel has shown the world how much you've grown.

1:19:52And if this episode has given you at home something to reflect on, whether it's around pressure, relationships or resilience, please pass this episode on and share it with someone who would benefit from hearing it. Don't forget, we'd love it if you can hit follow or subscribe. It makes a big difference to us. And if you want more Olympic legends, we've got plenty of them, haven't we, Damien? Yeah, we've got Jess Ennis-Hill, Bradley Wiggins, Kelly Holmes, Usain Bolt, Michael Johnson, Mark Cavendish. So many! look thank you so much for joining myself Damien and the whole team and we'll see you next time

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