Kolo Touré: Two time Premier League winner on building an unbeatable mindset (E249)

0:28Watch it early on the High Performance App. in Kuru Nguyen. That is Kolo Torre and this is High Performance, the show that unlocks the minds of some of the most fascinating people on the planet. I'm Jay Comfrey and alongside our High Performance expert Damien Hughes, we learn from the stories, struggles and successes of our guests, allowing us all to explore, be challenged and to grow. And today we're joined by a legendary figure from English football, a man who until recently actually was a manager but lost his job at Wigan And you know sometimes, right, you interview someone and when they leave the room you think, I hope something brilliant happens for you.

1:06And I really hope that this person makes it as a manager and tastes the success in the dugout that he had on the football field. Because Colo Torre, from when he first joined Arsenal and he shared some amazing stories in this conversation about Arsene Wenger, he was one of the invincibles, of course. Then he left to join Manchester City and he has some amazing stories about life at City. Then to Liverpool. What are his memories of the first time he pulled on that famous Liverpool jersey? And then he played for Celtic as well and once again had a season as an invincible. Kolo has so many great stories about life on a football field.

1:39We all know the things that he did in his career, but the stories behind those things are so interesting. So sit back and enjoy football legend Kolo Torre on High Performance. And before we get going, just a few key messages from our valued partners who allow us to offer you this conversation totally free.

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3:45Kodo, thank you so much for joining us Pleasure You've had an incredible career You've done so many things Experienced so many things So what do you believe high performance is? For me, high performance is I would take that in my concept In the industry that I'm working into Which is football And I think that You can only talk about high performance when you work with people. You need to have people with different skill sets with the best to achieve the goals that you set as a team. Nice. So how do you go about getting people to buy into a certain way of operating and a certain way of thinking?

4:30I think the first thing is you have to make sure you bring them close to you. And I think for me, relationship, creating an open communication environment is very, very important because I want to create that trust between the players and me as a manager. and when I used to be a player as well, I always liked to communicate a lot to my teammates because when you create an environment where people feel happy, they feel like they can express themselves, you see they can give the best, really. So when you were a player then, Kolo, which environment allowed you to express yourself the best? I would say Arsenal, you know.

5:23I was very lucky joining that team. And in that time, of course, we had a few French players in the team, and the manager was French as well. But, you know, I was getting on very well with the English players as well. Martin Keogh, Ray Paolo, Sol Campbell. And these are guys that really helped me to get better, to improve myself, and feel free to develop myself. And we speak particularly about Martin Keone. It was huge for me because I was in competition with him and I didn't see somebody that wanted to stop me. I saw somebody who wanted to help me grow and that allowed me really to play my best football, to don't be shy and to express myself because as you know it's quite difficult when you're coming from africa you know i was not talking the language very very well you know um but i think the environment allowed me to progress well let's talk about the man who created that environment then yeah arsene wenger what was it like the first time you met him it was incredible for me you know because he was a friend of Jean Maggio, which was the guy that created that academy where I came from, Avricos.

6:47And I met him when we went for a tournament in Holland, in Everland. And we played against a few teams. We played against Ajax. We played against Feneod. We played against Kupia, I remember. And seeing him, you know, in life for us, especially for me, it was incredible. Because I never fought, even in my dreams, coming close to somebody like him. Because you only watch them on the TV, really. In that time, you could watch them on the TV and see them managing the team. And when I came across him, it was unbelievable. You can't describe how happy I was. Nice. And you had a trial, right, at Arsenal?

7:33Yeah. Why are you laughing?

7:39Yeah, it was a funny try, I can say. Very unusual try, obviously. Why? I was too enthusiastic. I wanted to sign for that club. I wanted to make sure that I can get a contract. I was thinking you cannot miss that chance to not give your best insight for one of the best teams in the world. You know, in the adrenaline was there, but at the same time, I was thinking, boy, you have to give everything you got to stay there, definitely. So what happened? Come on. Yeah, just in the game, you know, the manager explained the rule. But because I was not speaking the language very well, as you can guess, there is a moment where the ball goes out of the pitch and Arsene Wenger just runs to go get the ball but in my head the game is keeping going and I just keep running and at the same time I tackle him with the ball Or Arsene Wenger Yes, Arsene Wenger, exactly and that was funny that was a really funny moment but for me it wasn't familiar because I was scared I was scared why were you scared?

9:05scared to maybe he was going to be hungry with me for what I'd done did you win the tackle? absolutely but he then offered you a job yeah and do you think that moment actually told him something about you? yeah I think so what? I think so because I think he saw somebody who a boy that coming from another continent really but was willing to give everything to stay and have a career in best country of football. Greatest tackle you ever made. Absolutely. When we interviewed Phil Neville a few years ago, Carlo, he spoke to us about how many young players, when they make that step up and maybe train with the first team, they're often inhibited or shy.

9:49And he felt it was those that had the courage to impose themselves or show themselves were the ones that gave themselves a fighting chance of having a career. so when you were in the changing room before you went out for that trial game what were the kind of conversations you were having with yourself because I've been through a few tries and I was in four clubs where it didn't work and honestly when I came to Arsenal for me I was thinking what am I going to do there really you know because I've been failing in four like small you know smaller clubs in Arsenal I was thinking okay go there give your best and see what happens that was I think but again when I reflect I think those tries that I did before helped me to be better in Arsenal you know it was almost like preparing myself for the peak moment yeah you know because I went to like Bastia Strasbourg I was in I was in I was in Nanderecht and I think I played my best football in Arsenal, you know, and because I was much more free, you know, I was not putting a lot of pressure on myself because, you know, I'm quite, I like to be, I try to be perfect all the time, you know, and that was from the young age, you know, and that's what I was trying to do in the previous, you know, tries.

11:21But when I went to Arsenal, I said to myself, okay, stay relaxed, give your best and then see what happens. And it worked out well. Absolutely. Shall we talk about what it's like to play in a team of invincibles? You've played in lots of different teams over lots of different seasons. Was there something special about that squad in that invincible season that you can put your finger on?

11:47Again, I would say that we were not only football players. We were not a team, we were brothers. because we used to be to gel together a lot outside football. You know, I remember Patrick used to make parties to his house, inviting everybody. His wife would cook some meal from Africa or from the Caribbean. And we all used to go there and have food with our wives. And that, I think, creates a bond in the team. And that's why for me, again, I go back to, for me, The high performance is really having people with different skill sets, but working together and try to not let each other down to win something.

12:37But when you're in the middle of a game of football and it's an intense game, there's a lot happening and you're fighting for the win, what does being brothers do for you in that moment? You fight for your brother. You're not fighting for your teammate. You're fighting for your brother. If he does mistake, you have to cover. And when you have a bond of players who feel like that, it's incredible. The power is immense. And I think that was the strength of that team. We were fighting for each other. If you were to look back on you now, what were the characteristics beyond that obvious commitment?

13:14What was it that you think they saw that, as well as being a good footballer, they saw you as a good person? What were those characteristics? I'm generous. Generous, you know, because I like to support people. And sometimes I try to do too much, you know, and that's the way I am. How do you mean? I mean, I remember we played with Martin Keon. And because Martin at one point was quite an old player. and for me, playing with him at the back because he was such a nice man with me. You know, I wanted to just, you know, run around him, you know, like covering him all the time, you know, because he was constantly talking to me, you know, and, you know, I wanted to protect him because even though I was young, but I knew that he was lacking a little bit of speed and my strength was my speed.

14:11I could help him a lot in that. It doesn't matter. And he was able to communicate a lot with me. And I think that created that relationship, really. And what I think is really interesting is when you came for your trial, the fact that you took the pressure off yourself meant that you delivered. But then in the invincible season, you played almost every game. So suddenly there was pressure on you because you were a young player in a great team, edging towards winning the league. so how did you at such a young age deliver under pressure what were the mental games that you were playing and what were you saying to yourself I think when I came and I watched the team even at that age I was analysing the team and I was seeing that team of Arsenal what was lacking at the back you know because back in the days in the game it was tall players you know especially centre-backs they were quite tall Martin Kuhn Tony Adams Saul Campbell and I was thinking, what can I bring, you know, to that team?

15:15And I was thinking, can I bring my speed? I can bring my technique as well because I was quite good with the ball. And I always remember Patrick Vieira telling me, Kulo, get on the ball. You know, when Yancy Mellon had the ball, he was asking me, Kulo, get on the ball. You know, because he knew that every time I was getting on the ball, I was able to break line of pass, pass the ball to him or pass the ball to the side or play the ball in this space for Thierry Henry for his speed. And I think Patrick allowed me really to express myself because he knew what I was able to do and I knew what I was able to bring to the team too.

15:55Can we talk about as you edged towards winning the league as an invincible, what was it like with, I don't know, five games to go and you hadn't lost all season? What were the players saying? I think, honestly, when we started the season, we were not thinking about being invincible or anything like that. And we just realized that we could do that when we won the league at White Tart Lane. Right. So how many games left was there after that? I think it was six, seven games, I think so. I can't remember exactly. And you thought at that point, we've done this? Exactly. We've done it. What next thing?

16:34you know and then we really start to realize okay we can do it you know but it wasn't something that we been talking about you know for me I was young maybe I had the conversation with Patrick with the most senior players but not with me for me I was thinking let's try you know try to win game after game you know and I can see I can say that in the final game against against Leicester I remember I think that's where we stressed a little bit you know So I think that the game was a bit strange. We didn't start well. But obviously we won it and then we won the trophy and then we've been invincible for that season.

17:13It was an incredible season. And Arsene Wenger is on record as talking about that you need at least seven leaders in a high-performing team. People that just set the standards. Can you give us examples of what the leaders in that team did to enforce and sustain the high standards? Patrick was, I would say, the leader. But Patrick is a guy that doesn't shout all the time. He will just shout at the right time. He lead a lot by example as well. He does things and you have to follow. I think Thierry Henry was a proper leader too. He was leading from the front. but Thierry Henry is, I would say, at this time, he wanted to be perfect.

18:06With Thierry Henry, everything has to be perfect. You have to do everything to be perfect. And we had Martin Keown, who was not playing, but he was a guy that before a game, we pushed the team. Come on, guys, let's do it. And I think it was not only the 11 players, it was the squad. You couldn't see players on the bench hungry. Everybody was being the team. And that was massive. Ray Paolo, lovely man again, working hard at training. One thing I will say with this team, which I felt like was the key, it was training. The intensity of training was incredible. Honestly, I did trainings there, and I was tired after.

18:52I was thinking, wow, such a tough training. and you go to the game on Saturday, the game is much easier because you've been training with a high standard. And when you transfer that to the game, you work on your other team, definitely. And let's talk about Arsene Wenger at this point then. You know, you tackled him on day one, got the contract from him, great. But at this point, you really get an understanding of why Arsene Wenger is one of the greatest coaches the game has ever seen. And we see the tactics and we see the media afterwards, but you see so much more. So why do you think Arsene Wenger managed to do what he did at Arsenal?

19:33I think Arsene Wenger, nowadays we can see the modern managers, they talk a lot tactically. They give a lot of information to the players. Wenger coming inside to create some overload in the middle with four players versus three. Arsene Wenger will not talk about that, but we pick the players which were able to do that job. You know, because if you see our team, we had Fredy Njombenk on the right side, we had Robert Pires on the left side. And what, Fredy's job was running in the space all the time, if you remember, he scored many goals like that. Robert Pires, because he was almost like a number 10, he used to drift from the middle to create the overload there.

20:24And I think that's what Arsene Wenger was doing, you know, bringing players together with different qualities to get the high performance, really. You know, he knew how to pick his players and put them on the pitch without talking a lot. What he used to say a lot to us, because we used to bat a team, you know, in the first half, and sometimes when he's nearly, And they say, stay calm, stay patient, keep putting the pressure, the goal will come. And that was his word. And we always used to score goals, you know, in the second half, definitely. So would he focus, so how much of his focus on a game would be on the opposition and how much of it would just be focusing on what you could do?

21:08He was focusing in us. He used to focus a lot in us. You know, we do a little bit about the opposition team, but most of his meetings was on us, what we were capable of doing. And I always think, you know, one thing is getting to the player's head, which is the tactics. What did Arsene Benga used to do to get to the player's hearts? He's such a nice man, honestly. You know, I never saw Arsene just being aggressive with a player or shout anything. I never saw that. And, you know, the way he was leading was quiet. And he would always speak, talk to the players in his office. You know, and he was such a strange man.

21:55You know, you see him every morning coming, say hi to everyone. You know, and then you don't see him again. You know, he was leaving the players almost like a dictator area. but I would say like he had really experienced players you know when you have Dennis Beckham you have Martin Keown Riparo Patrick Vera these are they were mints because I thought he would have been there all the time do this do that don't do it no? no such a quiet man honestly such a quiet man and can you recount any occasion where he did call you in his office and what was his feedback and the impacts of that for you? I do remember talking a lot to him I was because my culture, you don't talk a lot to your father.

22:46You know, your father speak to you. He call you. You don't go to him most of the time. And I was not a player which was going to the office and try to talk. Arsene will approach me because he knew I was young and he knew my culture. You know, he knew that in Africa, you know, you have to be really respectful of the orders. You know, this is really, really important. And for me, I grew up there and I had that. It doesn't matter, you know, I came here, but still have it. You know, and he knew that. And he was always calling me, talking to me. Most of the time on the pitch, you know, after training, pull me, speak to me.

23:25And that's the moment where I was talking a lot to him. What was he like when you were late coming out for the second half of your Champions League game? I mean, I think you should probably explain the story for people first before we talk about Arsene's reaction? You know, what I used to do, honestly, you know, for me, I'm a Muslim, you know, and before that, I go on the pitch, I have to do my vudu. You know, it's like taking my abliction. You know, as a Muslim, before you pray, you have to watch yourself in a certain way. And I always used to do that. And for me, that was important to do that.

24:01For my mindset to go on the pitch and deliver, you know, and it doesn't matter what happened, I had to do it. and I think that day that's what happened I went to do my hoodoo and then I came late you know and again Asen Wenger really quiet man you know he will never shout on you anything like that I knew he was hungry with me and I was trying to not do it again so if he doesn't shout how does he show his displeasure I would say he just you can see his face change a little bit you know but he would never like really shout obviously you know when you look at him he will be like you know you do a little sign on his face and you know you got things wrong and for a man who achieved so much what was it like watching him by then from the outside as he came towards the end of his time at Arsenal and it got quite toxic and quite negative how did you feel about that?

24:57I felt bad you know to be honest because I think he doesn't deserve that but I would say like Arsenal was used to really experienced players around him. You know, he didn't have to talk too much, but when you start having a lot of young players in your team, you need to get on them. You know, you need to be able to tell them everything. You know, you need to be on the tour all the time. And I think that's what happened, you know, at one point with Arsenal, you know, all the experienced players were, all of them were gone. You know, we were all gone really. And Arsenal had some young players in front of him.

25:34And I think for me, in any team, you need some experience. You need some leaders there. Players who have been in the club for maybe 10, 15 years. And the young players, they just copy them. They follow them. They look what they do. And I think Arsenal Wenger suffer on that, in my opinion. Do you ever speak to him now? Oh, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Do you? Yeah. My father gave me my first opportunity here, you know, in our continent. it doesn't matter what happens but never forget what people do to you you know and for me Akko is my father really he's the one who gives me the opportunity to express myself in the biggest league in the world that's so lovely so if there was a trait from him that you would take into your own managerial career what would that be?

26:28trust young players give ownership to the players because when I was young again, when I came, he really trusted me. He was not scared to throw young players in the team and that's why he ended up with a lot of young players at one point. And I would say he's such a calm guy, but at the same time, he's a proper leader. who is somebody that you want to work hard for him, you know, because the way he treats you, treats you very nicely. So let's talk about the next club you went to in English football after Arsenal. I suppose, first of all, did you want to leave Arsenal? Good question. No, I didn't want to leave Arsenal, but at one point it started to be a little bit toxic, you know, because other players are coming and they're coming with different mindsets, you know, and, you know, especially when you play at the back and you don't get around very well with people, it's quite difficult.

27:35Because, like I said, Arsenal, again, Arsenal is about togetherness. And when did that start to change? Other players coming around, which they had different mindsets, really. And I couldn't cope with that, you know, because for me, football is about being together, working hard together, protecting together. So what does toxic behaviours look like in a football club? Selfishness. For me, if you want to be able to win trophies, you have to work for each other. If you have one or two players on the pitch who pick moment of working hard for the team, you won't get anything. Were you not able to go to the manager and say, solve the problem?

28:23I think there's moments in the club where as a player you feel powerful and everybody knows that you're in the position of leading and there's moments where you start to be a little weak and when that happens you can figure that out very quickly and the trust starts to go to somebody else and as soon as it gets to somebody else there's no there's no drama you have to realise that you remove yourself and that's what I did for the benefit of the club you know really? yeah absolutely so you went to Manchester City yeah talk us through the day that you walked into that dressing room for the first time because every club has a different culture yeah what did you walk into?

29:11walk to a different area differently back in the days it was Manchester City was a club with who had big ambitions with the new chairman who came. They wanted to achieve great things and they started bringing players. But when I went there, I saw a group of players, very nice guy. It was Vincent, it was Nigel De Jong. They were really nice people, obviously nice guy, but you could see that they were no use to winning mentality. You know? And from first training, I remember we did a rondo you know rondo in 8v2 and when we do the rondo when you do the rondo with Arsenal it's quite serious you know you don't want to lose the ball and then in Man City we do the rondo and then there's a moment where I think there's a when you put the ball on the feet of a player a nutmeg nutmeg exactly and then everybody starts shouting and kicking the ball away and then laughing I was like very strange not used to that you know when you do not match you just keep going you know laughing a little bit but it was like very loud and very I was like okay we have to make sure we change the mindset you know because if you want to be winning mentality we need to when you make a not match the game is not finished you have to score the goal you know and and you know that was the difference and I knew that we need to change that as a team So how did you go about changing the mindset Manchester City being serious don't laugh you know when they used to do that I was like you know guys come on you have to carry on doing it you know because playing a nutmeg is nice but it doesn't win you games doesn't make you score goals you know and when when you you know one of the senior players coming they see that he's not laughing you know that means he's not having it you know and soon so start changing the mentality and it was Mark Hughes that recruited you yeah did he give you permission to go and change the culture never give me the permission I was going to take it definitely you know because I was a captain when I came there and for me it was no way that I was coming from Arsenal and then just come in the club and just let things happen see again I was thinking of the parallels with Phil Neville again repeating the interview with him he spoke about when he went to Everton David Moyes appointed him as captain and he said he actually found it very difficult because he hadn't proven himself to that dressing room and yet you were given that status from the start.

31:51Was there challenges in having to establish yourself as the leader? Absolutely, absolutely. There were challenges. Donny was there. I think he was the captain as well there. And I think I had to take the captaincy on one point. And it was difficult for a guy like him. He was in the club for a long time. Richard Donne was the captain. great guy, you know, a great leader. But I came and then I had to, they had to make decisions. You know, you have to make decisions if you want to move forward. You know, and when I had the captaincy, it was great, but it was really heavy. You know, like you say, you know, you find people there, you know, and difficult to get to bring them close to you.

32:36But I think the one thing I had was dedication, hard work. I work hard at training. you know for me I give everything at training and when people around see that you're serious you're working hard you care about the club you care about them they start following you they start trust you so did you go and speak to Richard and sort of have a conversation about what had happened no no because you know it happened to me at one point as well you know they give the the handband to Tevez yeah you know and yeah and that's the way it goes. You know, sometimes you feel like, well, you know, why are you taking that to me?

33:16But this is the game, you know, it's about what the leader believes. You know, when the believer believes that this guy is the guy who can lead the team, he's doing it. And when the armband was removed from you and given to Carlos Tevez, what did you do? Did you protest? Did you complain? Did you speak to the man? Well, I was very hungry. Were you? Yeah, absolutely. I was very hungry. and it's never pleasing. It's never pleasing. What did you say? My reaction was, I was not happy at all, but I couldn't do much as well. But I was very, very unhappy. But again, you get on very quickly because there's a game coming, you know, and you have to move quickly to the next one, definitely.

34:01And when you first arrived at City and you were the captain, because this is useful for people who are not in football, but they're in business or they're teachers, parents, whatever. Those players who you sensed weren't having you as a captain, how did you deal with them? I think you have to convince them by the way you carry yourself, by making sure that you train well, you deliver on the pitch, and then they have no choice, they have to follow you. And were you the kind of captain that wanted one-to-one conversations with players? No. No, I was more leading by example, not talking too much, but more like working at the training.

34:38For me, training is the base of everything. If you're the leader and you're not working hard at training, players see that and the level of the team drops straight away. So James Milner told us that he always saw himself and Jordan Henderson as good cop, bad cop. So he saw himself as being the guy that imposed standards. If you were late, he'd be issuing fines. And then Jordan would be the guy that would put their arm around the shoulder and encourage you not to be late next time. what were you as a captain? Good question I would say for me I was more I could do both I could do both because I can have tough conversation as well you know because I'm quite demanding you know when I used to play because I was quite vocal as well you know speaking a lot to the players but I would give them that as well you know but I think everything you do you have to do it in the respective way.

35:39You know, when you communicate with somebody, come on, man. Come on. You know, push. Do more. You know, but at the same time, when he does something well, well done. Keep going. Perfect. You know, when you give them those two different feelings, they feel appreciated because you never give only the bad one. You give the good one as well. And was there a moment then as captain when you felt you did start to get the dressing room coming behind you and standards started to improve? Absolutely, absolutely. Because we had new players coming. We had Yaya, Silva. Those players were used to the top level as well.

36:25And when they came, they make things much more easy because the standard that they had, they just carry that. They bring that in the club. And the guys that I find there, they start to raise the level. If you look at one point, Vincent became the captain.

36:47Lescott became one of the best players. And both of them play in front of me. Because that's what competition brings. You bring the standard. And the other one, you feel like, oh, the standard is no good. They start to raise the standard. And then, boom, they pass you. And at one point, I was not starting the games. you know but this is the competition and when you get to any environment that's what you need to do you need to push people to go above what they they expect and what they think they can do

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39:25And you spoke about the brotherhood that you had at Arsenal. You literally did have your brother joining you at Manchester City. What was that like for you as a leader? Oh, it was special. It was special. For me, it was the best moment of my career, I would say. Having Yaya with me. And I always talk about that, but he never mentioned that, but he could have gone to the other side of the city, you know. And I tell him, listen, come to us. Could he have joined United? Yeah, exactly. I mean, you know, because it was speculation. If you come from Chelsea, United, he was thinking, oh, yeah, maybe United can be good because of the standard, they've been winning.

40:05I said, come with us. You know, if you can with Mount City. You know, there's so many things to achieve here. Because if you go to United, there's so many things there. You know, we'll never be a legend. But if you come to City and we do well, you'll be a legend here. And that's what happened. And that's what made me even prouder. I'm so sorry, man. Kolo stopped his brother joining your football club. I'm smiling, but I'm crying inside. Look, you were a real, a true professional. You led by example. You were a captain. So would you tell us, with real honesty, how painful it was when you were banned for six months for substance abuse?

40:46it was hard it was really really hard what was the toughest moment? not playing games not playing games I was able to train and as well you know when you know that you haven't done of course you know there's you know for them is is people talk about drugs you know but I'm thinking you know it's better to use another word you know because my kids now I think that that took a drug yeah you know and when drug in you know in French or I don't know it's like cocaine or things like that you know but I was I took a diuretic you know in a diuretic is just to flush the water really yeah you know but you know the way it's been you know it's been in you know in the media I was like oh my god was that almost the most because let's just be clear for people that don't know the story, it was a tablet put into water to flush your system and the prosecutor said, at no time did you take any performance-enhancing substance.

41:57However, what you did take meant you failed the drugs test, right? So was it almost the embarrassment of people thinking that you were taking a performance-enhancing drug that was hard? Absolutely, absolutely. You know, because you think that I don't need that at all. and for me it was to prove that I didn't need to take something like that and that's why when I came back I was very hungry to show more but it's difficult, it's a very difficult time but again that's part of the game you have setbacks and when you have setbacks you have to fight and wake up and then carry on going you know you know we can't talk about your time at City without talking about Aguero and 2012 absolutely what are your memories of that day how you said that day I was not in the team again it's difficult very very difficult when you are known in the team of course because you're a competitor you want to be on the pitch you know after being banned you know I think I fight my way to come back.

43:13It was really, really hard. The players established themselves. They were playing very, very well. But again, I would say, it was all about the project. You know, coming to City was a challenge for every player who came in the club. And when Aguri scored that goal, you know, deep inside, you feel like, you know, I'm part of it. I'm part of a big moment, big story in in Manchester City life and we always be remembered and I think that was my feeling you know I said ok Kolo you left Arsenal everybody was talking yeah he left for the money for the blah blah but when we won it it was like almost you know I made the right decision to move because I helped that team to win a trophy and for a team like Manchester City that hadn't won the league in such a long time.

44:08What do you feel mentally you brought to them that enabled them to get over the line for that first time? I think it was the belief. The belief because to win a trophy you need to believe. That's the first thing. Because at the start of the season is everybody in the same line. When you have players who won it before, you know, they will carry you there. They will take you there and that's what happened really we just bring belief to the fans belief to the clubs so then eventually your time at Manchester City comes to an end you didn't want to leave Arsenal did you want to leave Man City at this point you know I was feeling a bit disappointed a little bit because I felt like the trust that the club have put on me I don't think I have given back really because of all the things happened to me and I wanted to you know have another opportunity because Pellegrini came and I felt like okay if Pellegrini come maybe I will have more opportunities I will have more chance to play but unfortunately they didn't want to carry and then you know what happened next So did you have a choice of clubs when you left City?

45:20I was scared I was scared honestly I was thinking hmm where are you going? I was thinking maybe go to France and then I had a phone call from the big man from the Nourdes I was delighted honestly winner so take us back to that moment where were you I was home I was home and then see my phone and then Brandon Rogers on the phone you know I was like oh my god what did he say he said to me listen Kolo you know I'm thinking about I'm thinking about having you in my team everything with your experience and I said to him boss ok no problem one thing I will tell you I will I will I will never let you down you know that's what I tell him you know because I told him that straight away and how quickly does a conversation go from you and him chatting on the phone to you pulling on a Liverpool top for a photo for the first time how quick was that?

46:22yeah it's not that quick because you have to go through medical you know in that tough moment as well because you never know what can happen there I remember I went to Melwood at that moment and So did you go straight to Melwood after the phone call? No It took a little bit of time Right And then you know took time and then I went and that was it was a day where there's no one in training ground and I was on my own watching there you know looking it was different training ground from where I used to be you know because it was like you have houses you run and then the training ground is inside.

47:02And it was really, it was a good moment. You know, I watch, I see like the photo and I start to realise that I was going to sign for one of the biggest clubs in England again. Really fortunate for me. I'm really taken by that line that you used to Brendan though around, I won't let you down. Why was that such an important promise to make? Yeah, because I was in a moment where people were doubting on me. And I was doubting on me too, you know, because as a man, when you are set back, you start doubting on yourself, which is normal. If you don't doubt yourself in those moments, that means I don't think you are human, really, I would say.

47:45When he said that to me, it was the way for me to reassure him, but at the same time, it was a way for me to say, come on, Kolo, this guy will put his trust on you and you have to really, you have to make sure you don't disappoint him. Again, you go back to what I say, you know, when people trust me, I feel responsible to make things happen and that's my nature. So you won the league at Arsenal. Yeah. Won the league at Manchester City. Yeah. Two incredible clubs. Yeah. But there are very few things in football like running out at Anfield in front of the Kop wearing the red of Liverpool. Take us to the day that you did that.

48:23That was incredible. Honestly, what a club. Yeah, what a club. Unbelievable. Playing in front of the cup is... Wow. First game, I would say, first game playing against Stoke and had pressure on me because I was... I could see, like, the environment, you know, the fans were not sure. Kolotore. How could you tell they were not sure? You see the press, people talking, you know, and even you see fans and you don't see them really enthusiastic to see you, really. They're thinking, oh, maybe this time is gone. Maybe it won't do well for the club. And for me, that game was important, you know, to show from the first minute.

49:10And I remember there is a moment, and Brandon talked always about that. And I can remember that moment was included in the game. Long ball, I think, from the goalkeeper. And then I'm fighting in duels with Peter Crouch. You know, Peter Crouch, really tall. I'm thinking like, listen, you will win that ball, 100%, to make sure that, to give to all the fans the sign that you are here. I went high and I won the ball. And I could hear the fans, like, you know, I could see like, they were, whoo, they were shocked. because you know Peter is really tall and to win the ball on his head is quite difficult honestly I jumped I was I was amazed by my jumping you know I was like wow how did you do that but again that was the emotion that I was carrying the willingness to to show to the fans that I'm the man you know and I think that action changed the view of all the Liverpool fans So how much of the success of your career then When you talk about imposing your will Making it happen for you How much of what you did in your career was up here And how much was physical I think everything was there Everything was there It doesn't matter where you come from How tall you are How fit you are I think when you have the willingness to get something You find resources In your head, mentally Mentally, exactly what was your greatest moment in a Liverpool shirt do you think wow

50:59I would say like we haven't won you know the trophy but the final of the Europa League it was incredible we lost the game we lost the game but I was really really proud because for me to be able to play that final was a challenge because I was in competition really good players at that age. We lost, but we give everything. And did you see that Liverpool squad and that manager and think, in the future, something great is going to happen here? Oh yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Why? You could see that. What could you see? He's a lovely man. He's a lovely man. He's a leader. He's somebody that you want to fight.

51:46You want to work for him. you don't want to let him down club yeah you don't want to let him down he's when you join when he came into the club and you shake his hand he doesn't shake your hand like everyone like managers shake it like he made you know and I think that's he created that that trust straight away and you feel part of his family straight away and I think what he's doing now and I have no surprise you know he's he's a lovely lovely man what did he say to bring the players on the journey with him early on do you remember the first time you saw Jurgen Klopp address the players and think I like I like what I see here again I would say about the way he shake your hand just that first impression first impression he shake your hand like a teammate you know and he's I would say the things that I think was the key for all the success for Liverpool.

52:52I think Mimel spoke about that a little bit. That was the moment where we lost that final. You know, the Europa League final, that moment. You know, we were all down. You know, we lost the game. Everybody was like, you know, in the party and then we were, you know, why are we doing, why are we doing there in the party? We lost the game. You know, we saw the manager walking up there in the middle and dancing. And then walking around, pulling everybody, come dance. You know, I was like, why is this guy crazy? What is he doing? You know, but he ended up to be one of the best parts he had been to, honestly.

53:34You know, he made us forget about that moment. And I think his strength is a guy that he never carried negative things. You know, he let things go. you know you could see he lost a game yesterday you know in his comments he said like they performed well you know he will never get hungry to the players when they give everything and I think that is strength that so you've been entitled winning dressing rooms you've played for some of the iconic managers of our time how important is a manager if you had to allocate a percentage to it wow

54:17I will really say like 70 % wow yeah 70 % because your manager is the one who brings the cohesion the manager is the one who brings the strategy and the manager is is there to motivate the players and when you do all those when you do all those three things you're inspiring them you know and I think manager is very you know people sometimes talk about top players yes top you need to have a good squad absolutely but it's how you get the best from the players you know and I think people think as well people talk about Pep Guardiola and people see him as a top manager and people say he has good players yes he has good players but what he does best he gets the best from those players each Mon City player play with their full potential.

55:19Every single game, you know, and that's not for one game. It's every game. She's pushing them to the stream, you know, and I think that's what I believe that if you have a manager who is quite, who doesn't inspire you enough, you know, you'll never reach your full potential. Because football players like to be relaxed, like to be tranquilo. Like everybody, you don't want to work too hard and achieve things. You know, but when you have a manager who pushes you hard and, you know, you can end up achieving things that you don't think even you could be able to do. Then there was a lovely moment where you were able to end your career by joining another huge club.

56:08I mean, you've basically played for every famous club in the UK, nearly. you went to Celtic and you were an invincible once more how special was that at a time in your career when you would have been well aware that there weren't many games left yes absolutely there were no many games definitely

56:29joining Celtic was for me I was going there because of Prandon Rogers you know I was following Celtic a little bit but not overly I have to be honest and when I joined there I was like, I'm not sure what I was going to see there. And I went to the training ground. I see the people. I see the fans. And I was, it was incredible. The passion. It was incredible. They loved the club. They loved the club. And the competition between Rangers and Celtic is, there's no money like that. because it's religious as we say they don't like each other they hate each other so how do you deal with a rivalry like that as a footballer what's the best way to get the best out of yourself in that really red hot atmosphere win games yeah win football matches especially in Scotland especially in Scotland make sure you win the title yeah make sure you win every single game you play against them and I would say that when I joined the team it was this first time when And the drone just came up from relegation.

57:43Oh, yeah. You know, and I think we batted them 5-1. You know, it was a good game. I played that game, by the way. It was intense. It was a really good game. We played very well. And at the end of the game, I was driving my car, and I see, like, the police on the middle of the road, and I saw two sets of fans. and there was some fans on the left and on the right and it was, you know, Runga synthetic fans wanted to fight each other and I was driving there, I was like, oh, come on, turn quickly and then drove to go to the other way and yeah, it was incredible, incredible moment in Scotland. And at this stage of your career, how did you keep your motivation levels high?

58:33It's difficult when you, when you feel like you're losing your strength. And because I was a powerful player and I was somebody winning my duels all the time when I used to play,

58:51I was suffering inside me because I was suffering in trainings, intensity. I couldn't cope with intensity anymore. I was getting passed by young players. I was hating that. you know and I was thinking you got to make sure boom do you remember the moment that you decided to retire yeah absolutely absolutely there's a game I remember there's a game I think we were doing like Invincible and we had a break I think in December and then we came back and I remember having the conversation with Brandon and he would say Kolo do you think you'll be able to play that game and we had a young player Didi Boyota he was doing he done very well at training that week before we start the second part of the season I was thinking Kuro you have to make sure you don't you don't play that game and you know you you you you you make the team lose you know because I don't think I was in my full potential because we did the training if you had played the team would have lost exactly and did you say that to Brendan I never said that to him and he asked me and I was like I said to him, listen boss, play that player.

1:00:05I said, play that young player. And I think as a human, you have to know your limitations. You have to know. You know, sometimes a way I go, try to push you. And then, you know, because we want to be the one who has everything. But there's a moment you have to realize. And I realized that moment I was thinking, let this boy play. He's doing very well at training. his feet just give him this chance and again you go back to Martin Kuhn I was going to say yeah you know Martin Kuhn supported me when I came he never he never stopped me developing myself and I was thinking no I don't want to stop this young ball development and I had conversation with that boy Doudouk he was down he was thinking oh I'm not playing blah blah I said stay calm you know stay calm and I said to him I was so honest with him you know I said listen I said, I'm playing because I have the manager, you know, I have more experience.

1:01:06He respect me a lot because of my experience. But still come, you're going to play. How lovely, though, that after all these years, you were able to give back as Martin Keogh gave back to you. And that was my feeling, you know. And I was thinking, OK, done, you know, for me. No energy anymore, you know. Just leave the boys, carry his carrier. The day comes where you put on a football jersey and put on a pair of boots for the final time as a player. Yeah. What were your emotions that day? You know, you... Again, I have no regret at all because I felt like I empty myself, you know, mentally and physically.

1:01:49You know, I give everything. Because for me, again, I told you, one thing is training. and when I felt like, you know, at training I was not giving my best,

1:02:03I was letting down my teammate in a small side game, you know. I was like, no, done, done. And, you know, I'm very proud of the career that I'm done because I felt like I give everything and I always try to be honest with myself and my teammate. And we're talking to Kolo Toure, the manager now, rather than Kolo Toure, the player. You've had your first managerial job at Wigan. Yeah. It lasted a few weeks, a few games. Yeah. How painful was that experience and how much did you learn?

1:02:39Again, my pain was letting people down, you know, because I had the trust from the chairman, from the fans from the people at Wigan really from the CEO and unfortunately the strategy that I've used have not worked What was the strategy? My strategy was I had this style of play in my head and tried to implement that but you know I learned that it's not about you really it's about the players is about what they are capable of doing. You know, and I was really fortunate to play with clubs who wanted to win every matches, teams who want to win the trophy. And I've never been in that environment of fighting for relegation.

1:03:37And when I went there, I wanted to impose things things that I've been learning in a winning mentality environment. It was difficult for the boys. And again, I have to be honest, myself,

1:03:58the positive thing is I learned so much from that moment. I learned so much because I know now if I go to another opportunity, is all about you. It's about people you're going to find there, what they are capable of doing. And I think that's the biggest learning for me there. So it hasn't dulled your desire to be a manager, it hasn't put you off the job? Like when I did my try in Anderlecht, in Strasbourg, in Ball, you know, for me, it gave me more strength. You know, I can't wait to go for another opportunity. because I know that I have a lot to give to the game. You know, I don't want to be sitting at home and don't give what I learn.

1:04:53Don't give my inspiration. Don't give my energy. You know, when I watch football matches, you know, I just, I try to analyze everything. You know, I watch African Nation. You know, I watch almost every single game. I have my notebook, you know, on the TV and try to note what if I when I was if I was the manager of Nigeria for example of every course where I was going to tell my players you know and for me football is not a job it's a passion you know and you know when I used to play I told you I used to talk a lot you know and that's the way I am I like to inspire a team to win and even any player will tell you even in a small side game you know as soon as the game starts boom I'm on it you know I want to win it because I had that all my life for 20 years.

1:05:45I just want to carry having that and that's the feeling I have now. So for a CEO, a football club owner, a director of football, if they're listening to this conversation, why should they pick up the phone to Colo Torre next time they have an opportunity for a manager? Because I'm honest and I will defend the club. I will inspire the players. I will make them work hard to win football matches and I will give everything for the club to be successful because you can always only give your best and that's what I'm going to do work hard for that football club I'd give you the job but sadly I don't have one to offer unfortunately if I did I would we've reached a point where we're going to do some really fast quick fire questions with you now So what are the three non-negotiable behaviors that are really important to you?

1:06:45For me, respect. I would say respect is very important, especially in the team environment. You know, you can respect between each other, between the players, respect between players and staff, respect in the canteen, everywhere. you know when people are respectful they really you create a good environment and people looking forward to go to that environment number two I would say discipline you know because as a manager if you just put a strategy you want every player to really buy into it and play their role you know and I think it's very very important to have discipline nowadays in the game you know you cannot have players who just do whatever they want you know and that's why for me discipline is very important and the third one commitment you know I will say commitment because you know you know you have for me as a player when you sign for a club you have to make sure you work hard for that club and it doesn't matter if you are you know you picked or you not picked you know for the matches you have to give your best you know and because you are part of a group and there's a moment where you're going to step up and somebody will sit down and that person needs to support you and create that, you know, that brotherhood is so important.

1:08:14Brilliant. What advice would you give to a teenage color just starting out? I would say, I would say, control your emotion, I would say, because I'm quite an emotional guy, you know, and you learn that, you know, you learn that with experience. You know, you have to make sure you just feel happy, stay calm, think before you can speak. Very important. And that's what I'm going to say to me, definitely. What's your biggest strength, Kolo? And what's your greatest weakness? My biggest strength, I would say

1:09:06I'm positive and I don't know where that comes from. You know, I always see a positive thing out of nothing. You know, it doesn't matter which problem we are in, I will feel positive. I will have the energy to go and push. You know, I don't know where that comes from. And your greatest weakness? can be too nice sometimes, in my opinion, a little bit. I think people will say

1:09:42it's not a weakness, but I think you have to know how to manage it. And the final question is, what's your one golden rule to live a high-performance life?

1:09:54Give your best every single day. I have no regret in everything you do Wonderful What a great conversation and I would love one day to see you as the Ivory Coast manager lifting the Africa Cup of Nations with the players all around you World Cup I love it Perfect World Cup and Africa Cup of Nations Boof You know what If good things happen to good people then that will come your way because you absolutely deserve it and I know what you mean by sometimes you can be too nice but it's far better to get to the end of your life and people say he was too nice and people say he was too nasty. So thanks a lot.

1:10:32Really appreciate it. Thank you very much. Thank you.

1:10:38Damien. Jake. Sometimes someone sits in the chair and we have a conversation with them for an hour and you wish you could spend the next couple of months with them. They bring an energy, a lightness, just an atmosphere, not just to us, but to the whole team that makes you feel good and Kolo absolutely fits that category. Yeah, you know, somebody that brings high positive energy is a real attribute. You can see why he's going to be a really successful coach. It reminded me of when Eddie Jones said, nothing you do is neutral. Every action you do has the intention of either enhancing or eroding the positivity around the place.

1:11:13And he's somebody that just enhanced it incredibly. And the conversation at the end there about his challenges as a manager, I said to him, just as he stood up, I said, thanks for being so honest about why things went badly at Wigan. and he said, one of the challenges for me, he said, is people expect great football because of my history of playing under Arsene Wenger, of playing at Liverpool, of playing for these great clubs. And I think he's learning now the power of patience. And I think the next time he gets a job from what he was saying is he will just have to change his approach. And I think even that is powerful, that he's had all these years in the game, won all these titles, won all these matches, and he's still learning.

1:11:49None of us are ever the finished article. Yeah, I think there's something powerful about dealing with the world as it is, not how you wish it to be. And I think he's a man that's come in and sort of imposed his will on situations and made it how he wishes it to be. But if you're going to do that through the guise of engaging other people, you have to deal with where they are, not where you are, and be patient. And I think that last line for him of commitment all the way through from when he's joined Arsenal in that trial, right, the way through to when he felt he couldn't give his commitment at Celtic.

1:12:23this is a man that's going to be successful taking those characteristics. Commitment is exactly the word. And, you know, culture is another one. And I will say that when he left the room where we're recording this, Benny, who operates the cameras in here, he said goodbye. Kolo was halfway up the stairs, came all the way back down again to shake his hand and say, sorry, I didn't say thanks and goodbye. And I think people can sometimes sit in this chair and you know when you interview someone and you think, you're saying all the right things, but I'm not sure I actually believe some of them. With him, I wholeheartedly believe that the colo we've just met is the colo who will walk into a dressing room and manage a team again soon, hopefully.

1:12:58Yeah, I hope so. And you know what? He's the first guy as well that's ever given a definition. You know, we hear lots of people say, oh, you've got to believe. And then you go, right, okay, I get that. That's a mental process. But what does it look like when it translates into a behaviour and when he just said you're on it from the off, your commitment, your intensity is self-driven. You're not waiting for circumstances is to generate it. I think there's an intelligent man there that if he's able to translate that intelligence into other people's heads and their commitment, I think he's going to have a very exciting career.

1:13:33I hope so. Thanks, mate. Pleasure. Thank you. And that brings us to the end of this conversation with Kolo Torre. I don't know about you, but one of my favourite moments was, of course, that line about Arsene Wenger being his father. What a lovely thing to say. And I think that whole episode is a great reminder that the impact that you have on people lasts an awful long time. And I tell you, from Kolo Torre shaking the hands of every single member of the High Performance team, posing for photos, he arrived early, hung around, chatted to people, a constant smile on his face. He's funny, he's friendly, he's engaging.

1:14:06And all of us, Kolo, wish you the very best with whatever comes next. And as for you, thanks for listening. Thanks for continuing to share and grow High Performance. and don't forget to remain humble, curious, empathetic and find your own version of high performance. Have a good one.

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