Lando Norris: Why Winning Isn't Everything

0:28Watch it early on the High Performance App. and with many things. If I'm in a position to be on a podium or on top of the podium, am I going to be able to deliver it when it counts? That is Lando Norris, and this is High Performance, the show that unlocks the minds of the most fascinating people on the planet. I'm Jay Comfrey, and alongside Damien Hughes, we learn from the stories, struggles and successes of our guests, allowing us all to find our own version of High Performance. And today we're joined by a man who has very much enjoyed success because finally we can say that Lando Norris, the McLaren Formula One driver, is also a Formula One winner.

1:07However, before he picked up his first win after so many near misses and so many podiums and so much effort in Miami, Lando joined us on High Performance to talk about his upbringing, to talk about his mindset. And I think this is a really interesting moment for us just to stop and hear about the motivation that put Lando in with a shot at Formula One glory, something that he's finally achieved. I think you're going to love this episode. So let's do it and listen to Lando Norris on high performance. However, first, a few messages from our valued partners, allowing us to offer you this episode for free.

1:48before we get going just to let you know that you can now enjoy a free trial of high performance plus where you can get ad free content exclusive masterclasses and high performance originals just download the high performance app from the app store the market's uncertain revenues tied and hiring on hold that's why results driven companies are using Upwork to keep work moving. Go to Upwork.com today and start hiring proven freelance talent fast. No bulky overhead, no rigid long-term contracts, just the right expert right when you need them. Work smarter and faster with Upwork. Go to Upwork.com now and find your freelance expert.

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3:45Rolando, thank you very much for joining us. My pleasure, no worries. In your mind, what is high performance? high performance is performing at the very best level of yourself your abilities and i reckon it's as simple as that the best of your own abilities because high performance is different for everyone of course high performance within formula one is a little bit more complicated but it's still the edge of technology you know always pushing the boundaries always trying to find improvements so um maybe more in that direction high performance is trying to push the boundaries always trying to find better of yourself on the podcast series we interview people from a wide range of backgrounds but your dad was a successful businessman you grew up surrounded by privilege and wealth you went to millfield school for example what benefits did you think that growing up in that kind of environment taught you it's tricky because there's there's obviously so many nice things which obviously come with that yeah and i'm you know lucky and thankful to be in the position that I've been in with my dad doing so well and so on.

4:48And that's led on to me having and being given many good opportunities, you know, to always be with a good team, to have a manager and a trainer since I was 12, 13 years old. The one thing is that my mom and dad have done very well, I would say, is keep me grounded and kind of realize or live the life, let's say, as normally as possible, not get carried away in any way. You know, I can say I'm privileged but not in the way that I get whatever I want and yeah um I get nice cars from my dad and all of this stuff you know there's many things which my dad has given to me and I'll say invested in me but it's the investment not a not a given and um then I need to pay back that investment and reward him and you know use what he's given me to show it's all been useful and not a not a waste of time you know I think I'm just the parent my parents have been very good at keeping me in that that state and did it apply a bit of a pressure to you because you know you weren't able to say well i didn't have a great cart i didn't have a manager i didn't get everything you know you had everything that you needed therefore there was only one determining factor right me which is you maybe that's the perfect upbringing for formula one but i wonder how that sat with you when you're 12 13 years old um i mean i yeah i mean i have lived with like lived with the comments you get from other people.

6:08I guess already at a young age, maybe you just don't see it and realize it as much, how much people talk and social media then takes over that side of it. Were you judged even then, do you think, going to the races? Of course, yeah. Because we used to have a motorhome and we used to already be with the good teams and stuff like that. So since you pretty much start already, you have the judgment of this guy's got all the best stuff and they don't and stuff like that. But there are many people that also have other things which are just as good and so on. And there are many circumstances when it doesn't come down to, do you have a better engine?

6:42Do you have a better chassis? Do you have better people you work with? You know, a lot of it does come down to you in the end. So, yeah. Did you ever feel that your dad's success has cast the shadow that drives you today? I mean, I wouldn't say like I want to be better than my dad because we live like a very, I guess, a very different profession and live a different life. but um many things which want to make me um not get the comments of i'm in the position of where i am because of him right i think like between my dad and i like we never wanted i never wanted him to pay for me to come into formula one that was like one goal you know he could support me until formula one um or let's say until formula two to get to that point um give me those opportunities and so on but um I like personally as a feeling I wouldn't want to come into a Formula One having to pay for it and be although it's kind of just a bit of a mentality thing not have the mentality of um I'm not here because I don't deserve it I'm here because I've paid for it and I never really wanted that at all and um I feel much prouder to say that I'm here because McLaren brought me on and I was McLaren junior driver they brought me on I got better and then I was the official driver so like it makes me much happier saying that than than the opposite one but uh yeah like i have to know to a certain extent i'm lucky for the opportunities that i got and um the fact he could just support me into a formula two was already a lot more than than what people get so uh i also know that on the flip side i think sometimes we're guilty right in in this world of taking the values of someone who's had a struggle as being more valuable than someone who has had a privileged upbringing and i think we have to be so careful with that because you could have had all the great facilities and the managers and all the guidance and all the helping the world, right?

8:25Without hard work and dedication and determination and sacrifice from you, there's no way we're sitting here having this conversation, is there? Definitely not. Definitely not. I mean, because like when I started, I wasn't, I had a bit of a natural talent for it, but I wasn't amazing. It's not like I started and won everything. And was that hard? No, I wouldn't say it was hard. I think I learned a lot and of course, and I had good people around me to tell me how to do better. And I had to put in the effort to become a better driver. It wasn't like it just came completely naturally to me um definitely certain elements were natural and i think if you want to be one of the best you've got to have some knack for a way you can just jump in and be pretty good but then especially to be in formula one you've got to it's that next level you know what brings you those final hundreds and that final tenth and stuff um and there are hundreds of thousands of people who can drive a car well you know and you probably could jump in a car and do a pretty good job straight away but then it's those final few little little things and that isn't all down to who has the most money and those kind of things a lot of that is down to working with the people around you a bit of it is just experience you know the more kind of testing you get to do and so on the better but I still drive alongside teammates and had people I was practicing with every week and stuff like that who aren't in the position I am now so there's no excuse why like that's just suddenly helped me a lot more than them that that final bit is down to the determination of of the driver how much effort he's willing to put in the sacrifices he wants to make from such a young age what were they the i guess like the social life of school is probably the initial one um and you probably don't really realize that until you're a bit more mature and you kind of hit 20 or i say more like 18 i would say when you think like i don't really have any friends from school and um from growing up all my friends are now from just from racing um from karting and and so on um and very few you know every now and then i maybe get a message from some of my my mates from school but it's not like we're best mates anymore it's just like we knew each other and that was all so um yeah i kind of like missed that side of i didn't know like i guess i missed what i don't know about life from living up you know and going to uni and going out every night all those kind of things that's the life I didn't live but um I could never change that for what I've got now what were the kind of values then that your parents were instilling in you at that young age that you think you still hold true to today just uh like etiquette and being polite I guess like your interactions with other people you know never thinking that I'm better or more deserved than than anyone else that I work with um I think that shows in like a lot of what I do now in Formula One I think personally like I don't just turn up for Formula One and just like I get paid and go home you know I love everything that goes into it working here and in MTC with the mechanics some nights you know staying late I do the tours I go and see everyone I did some of my work experience here and just kind of getting to know everyone before I was the driver race driver for McLaren then I would stay with the mechanics So I'd pack up the garage and take the car apart after the races and stuff.

11:36Like that, I just love. Was that your choice or was that expected of you? No, no, no, definitely not expected. The other, I would say what is expected is the opposite side, you know, is just seeing the Formula One driver rock up in all the fancy clothes, do the work and then jet off home. So what did it do for you then? Why make that choice? Like that's my, that's what I enjoy. That's just what I like. um and did you understand at that point the value in that as well uh i would say so i mean i was what seven uh 17 18 so i knew like the values of of people and how much of a difference that can make how much if i help them how much they can help me and just the uh the improvements you can get from doing that although that was just for my enjoyment and stuff i was interested in at the same time there was just an added bonus from that and that was that i got to spend time with them and they liked it and they liked the help.

12:27I think this is really interesting for me personally because when you were much younger, I was involved for a short time in Formula One and my first ever trip to a factory was Red Bull where Sebastian Vettel was involved at the time. It was 2009 and he just joined the team. And I remember he had not been there very long and I went in and he knew the guy whose mum had been ill or the girl who just got married or the person who had a, you know, a physical issue they were trying to deal with at the moment. Or there was someone I remember at the time who was struggling with their mental health and he spoke to them about that.

13:00And I was watching this thinking, I used to think you just drove a car. Yeah. Now I start to realize that, and for people that are listening to this and don't understand how complex and involved your world is, you're effectively a kind of managing director of a group of people in this building. No way. And exactly in a way, you have to get them to operate in the way that you like and you have to push them, they have to push you. I'd be so interested to know when you first walked in this building and you were given the race seat and it was suddenly your responsibility to be the MD of that area Do you remember what you said or the message you wanted to convey to the people that would be working directly with you to Create a culture that you wanted around you?

13:40I think the the main thing was bringing like their work And an effort and everything that they put into it and just rewarding them simply there's always a time when you have to speak to the teams and all the team here and um i get real nervous in front of the hundreds of people that are there but i feel like there's just so much responsibility on me and the amount of effort and time that's gone into building what i drive and then like i'm that final piece of the jigsaw that just needs to go out and do the job that they're all expecting so for me it's just um like i'm not a part of that chain and i just want to finish off the job that that they've started um and that's from building the car you know and the drawings that they start off with all the way to the computers to the actual thing and then putting it on track so yeah the only thing is i said is like i just want to do them proud and put together their the story of going from a piece of paper to the hopefully a trophy at the end of the day but that's a that's a tough one so and how important was there was the personal relationship with all of these individuals because there's a lot of people on your side of the there's a heck of a load of people the main thing for me is like just enjoying things that i do like uh whether or not i would still be here if i enjoyed it i'm not too sure but uh um the reason i do it is because i enjoy it so if i want to enjoy things and my enjoyment doesn't come from me thinking like that i'm i don't need to care about the others you know a lot of it comes from me getting to know them and spending some time with them having chats and you feel the benefits of that yes yeah so can you give us a specific example then lando of where you feel one of those relationships you've invested in yeah has had a direct tangible effect when you're behind the wheel of a car.

15:15I couldn't give you an example of when I'm nice to someone, like how it returns to me when I actually drive the car. But I think there's more just how everything works in the background. A trust? A trust and responsibility and so on that people will give to you when you give it to them. Can we wind back to the first season in Formula 1? And from the outside, for everyone, it would look amazing because you're the youngest ever British debutant in Formula 1. you're still a teenager you're driving a car it's a dream and the car we've got alongside us you know it bears quite prominently the logo for for the mind charity who work to support people's mental health everyone has spoken about the joys of being a formula one driver and many people understand that would you mind sharing with us some of the struggles of that first year uh sure so i think all of it would already start uh at the first race um just like we kind of spoke about the amount of people which are here working on everything and like at that point I just feel like just another driver and I don't feel like I'm way better than everyone else at this point or necessarily believe I'm much better than everyone else at this point but like I'm on the grid and I just think like so many people are watching me I have so much to deliver for for the whole team and I am a new driver in Formula One there's a lot of eyes on me there's expectations you don't want to let McLaren down you know they're one of the most historic teams in Formula One so like that already just puts that pressure on how the media portrays you is one of the biggest things so when things start to go wrong when you make a couple of mistakes and the media have a little dig at you and then fans and you know people on social media start to have more of a dig at you that's when like that self-doubt that sometimes I would have like that grows when people kind of just add on to that you know and I was never I struggled a lot in like the final few years to get into Formula One so Formula Three Formula Two having that belief of am I better than them am I the same as them am I a little bit worse like am I good enough to be in Formula One and that kind of stays even when I was in that first year of Formula One like am I good enough to go around Monaco and deliver that lap in Q3 when it comes or if I'm in a position to be on the podium or on top of the podium am I there am I going to be able to deliver it when when it counts but uh that's okay and i could live with that quite easily on when maybe i made those little mistakes and so on but um when people add to it and and um you see comments that's when you like start to feel a lot worse about yourself and especially when i'm in my first year it's like i know my parents have put so much effort into helping me get to there the team have all the the expectations the whole world are watching and you just think like if this guy's wrong you know it's my first year in Formula One.

17:56If this goes wrong, you know, what am I going to do if I'm not in Formula One? Because this is all I've lived for my whole life. Like, what am I going to fall on, right? If all of this goes wrong. And even just having those thoughts is already... And this is all swilling around while you're still trying to drive a Formula One car to the best of your ability. Exactly. And, you know, always putting on like the smiley face for the cameras and all those kinds of things. Like, that's not the easiest thing. But yeah, you just get into that point when, like even, you know, I had maybe three or four races where I was just struggling a little bit.

18:24and I had Carlos as my teammate at that point and he was doing a very good job. He was getting to grips with the car and extracting everything out of it. And just three or four races where he beat me and I was just like, what do I do? I just got to the point where I don't know, is this the end of it? It's like, what if I can't find something else? I didn't know what to do at that point. That sounds quite lonely. Did it feel like? It is, yeah. Especially because I'm a guy who doesn't like to talk too much. I guess sometimes I do, but a lot of the time I like to keep things like hidden and tucked inside and stuff and when I have problems I tend not to talk about them especially back then definitely didn't talk about them as much as what I do now so a lot of it is my mind you know how like I like to think of it more on my own and um and how self-critical were you being at this point I'd say too much like I'm definitely my biggest critic but like I think a lot of pros and you see footballers or you know Formula One drivers whoever it is i think um uh they're their own biggest critics by by a long way um but i think you need to learn the balance of it you know and also know when to pat yourself on the back a little bit and say you've done a good job but there was a lot less of that than there was of of um bringing myself down so always having that self-doubt and that um being critical of myself and just thinking on my on my own and not like allowing others to help me as much as i could because i always thought it would be my fault not someone else's and i would hate to ever blame it on on someone so what did you do um i think there's just a lot of hours and days probably months of it just like swirling in your head and just you're thinking things over and over again um like why has he done that better how has he done that better what's he thinking of you know how does he spend his time uh and then you do it to yourself you know like what am i not doing good enough why am i not doing as good as him is it because of this or that or this or that and you just come up with all of these excuses for yourself but then I kind of got to a point when because it was four races instead of the three it was four what differences like kind of got to the point when I started to realize like what what else can I do now to make some changes and um it was like coming here spending a little bit more time with my engineers sitting down just refreshing everything kind of starting again a little bit and trying to get some of that self-confidence back in back inside because that's one of the biggest things like if i go out and i think you know i'm confident i can go out and break at this point and i can deliver the lap when i need to just thinking of these little things can already start to just click and start to just make things turn over a little bit and uh yeah that's when like small things started but it's just getting to that point which is the the difficult part see what's fascinating there though is because it's often referred to what you're describing lander was the psychological cage so where the weight of expectation everyone's looking at your eyes are on you is heavy or the fear of consequences of getting it wrong and making mistakes feels too steep they squeeze you focus on your own ability and what you can do so how did you dial down the expectation levels and how and sort of minimize the fear of getting it wrong to be able to then focus on what you could do differently i think i was luckily at a point where i could think of a couple of positive things every now and then and um i'm like i am in formula one like there must be some things that i i do very well um so you caught yourself doing things right yes like i think um what's tricky is like sometimes just understanding that and i think that's when people suffer even more is when they maybe don't see those kind of things i'm here because i'm good enough in many many circumstances and with many things um what are they and just just maximize them and then i you know you just think of them you speak about them a little bit and then you spark conversations and then you talk about them and you just get some slightly better understandings and then you start to gain some momentum and go from there again so what top tips would you give to people listening to this land though that maybe are in that fog of confusion maybe feeling a bit lost well I think like one thing I've not really mentioned as much or I mentioned a little bit earlier was the one thing for me that motivates me more than anything is is enjoyment and just fun fun and enjoyment like if I'm enjoying something it makes me work harder and makes me want it more and then it's that a positive spiral of if I work hard I reward myself more I enjoy it more and I work harder and it's just you know you keep going up I say maybe I got to a point where I wasn't enjoying it as much really and can you remember when that when that point was um i can't exactly it's in the first season it'll be in the first season like maybe halfway towards three quarters of the way through and i just was like you know like because you're thinking of so many things you're not just thinking of like i'm driving a formula one car in you know freaking america or japan or whatever it is which is which is just awesome um and you start thinking about it and just close your judgment like you said so the first few things are like maybe which i would say sparked it off is i need to enjoy it you know and um i think even like my manager and my trainer could kind of tell what was going on a little bit at this point and um there was a little bit more time spent on having some days away enjoying my life and maximizing my days at home you know with my family or my friends whatever it was going out a little bit um going out to dinners again and um that kind of just frees your mind up a little bit so i think maybe the first key point is enjoyment you know are you enjoying it yes or know and kind of understanding can you enjoy it like it's maybe not easy for people to enjoy the job that they have or whatever they're doing but I know I could enjoy Formula One and the job I'm in so I know I could enjoy it it's just understanding what kind of brought that to me and so on.

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26:11So let's talk about our favorite subject on the High Performance Podcasts. Yeah. Responsibility. Yeah. So we've spoken about you've had some difficult times, that first season full of learning. You've managed to get through it. You've clearly had a lot of self-talk and the team have been brilliant around you and you've got to a great place. And then we fast forward to the Russian Grand Prix. Yes. Where you're within a whisker of winning your first ever race. And fault versus responsibility. Okay. Loads of things happen in life that are not our fault. Yeah. But they're still our responsibility.

26:44Yes. Okay. it was not your fault that the rain came it was your responsibility a to deal with it on track but then with subsequent events to deal with it afterwards so are you happy to talk through yeah okay your responsibility in that situation behind the window of the car i guess is where we should begin uh so i guess it starts within the race you know those final few moments leading uh lewis has caught me but i've managed to hold him off for you know five five six seven eight laps and that's there's that glimmer of hope i'm holding him behind you know there's only what five five six laps to go i know i can continue to do this and then the rain's coming and there's just that build up of pressure like you know you're focusing you see one little little puddle or a bit of a shiny surface you know it's wet and all these things um and you're then in that communication with the team you know you're trying to give feedback to them they're trying to help you and i remember getting a little bit shouty on the radio at the time but not in a like my engineer knows that it's nothing that's never anything against him right it's just you're in the moment you just say things and um it doesn't really matter like it matters and maybe that's one of the things i've learned now is it matters how it comes across but at the time it's just like you know i shout no or shout yes but how they perceive it was kind of a small effect and it kind of a small change or they start to think of something so how did they perceive it how did you find out afterwards um so obviously like we would go through all the video we go through what everyone is thinking because it's not just me and my engineer you know you've got strategists at the track you have the engineers you've got then strategists back here in mtc and they're all looking at every little bit of data right people who have done the pit stops onto the intermediate tires people who are staying out my pace lewis's pace the big one is there more rain coming is there not any more rain coming and just going back over all of these things so how did you flush out that disappointment how long did it take you and what was the process that you went through um to move on i mean like the next let's say two three four days were pretty tough um just because it's like always been thinking that could have been my first win in fomal 1 um and i think as far as like that could that could have been my only win in fomal 1 you know my only chance to fomal 1 you never know because you don't know what car we're gonna have this year and next year and so on but um there's times when you know people's f1 careers only last a couple years or three four years whatever it is so it's like could that have been my only chance to win a race in formal one and then you kind of like what we spoke about earlier what could i have said differently what could i have done differently and i think of all of these things but then when we sat down and just just stopped for a little bit and you kind of review everything in a clean way and an efficient way um you pick apart you know the things we did well the things we didn't do well and what could have been a what were the deciding factors with everything what's now then the single biggest bit of learning for you from from those few laps the main thing is to um never like get caught up in the moment so the moment of that was i'm leading a race uh i got lois behind me it's wet um i'm not i wasn't thinking as clearly as what i should have been thinking and the more information I can just clearly give the team, the more they can understand the position that I'm in, how I'm feeling and the easier we can make decisions.

30:08So just kind of staying calm, which is such an easy thing to say, but doing it when you're in that circumstance is very different. But just clear and concise information is just always the best thing and them giving it to me in our way and vice versa is only going to help us win races and get on the podium more often. So understanding that is the best thing. It's a good reminder that what is hard for you isn't necessarily bad for you. I mean, you're a better driver for that. I'm much happier that it's happened in a time when I'm not going for a championship. I'm not going even for top three or top four.

30:41I'm going for sixth or seventh in the championship. For me, it's not a big achievement to do something like that. Do you think about the first win? Because I think it's so easy to sit in now and think, I just want to win a race. but if you could be an 11 year old in lando again you just want to be in formula one you have to be very careful becoming obsessed with the outcome yes because you either get there and then you're demotivated or you never get there and you're demotivated no i i wouldn't of course i think of it i can't lie i think uh everyone on the grid would say that they thought about winning the race and uh especially that one you know when i saw then lewis i think was his hundredth race win and just made me feel even worse like just gave him his hundredth race win i've not even got one and you know you see those you know a few cases where the outsiders won the race you know you've got mercedes and red bull who are always going to win but um you know when when esteban won the race in budapest and that's when it looks even cooler because they're the people in my position it's a benefit to you in thinking like that because there are hundreds of people my son being one of them looking at you thinking i'd like to be where he is and you're thinking you want to be where they you because you always move those expectations you've always you're always going to up them and like what's the next step you for you to achieve something and you always want to be satisfied by reaching the achievement um but i think in in formal one that's so difficult because uh it's not like a a guarantee you're ever going to win a race or be on the podium or anything like that and that could have nothing to do with you right it could just be because of reliability or your car's not quick enough or the the rain comes or whatever it is so uh it's never always going to be your fault so maybe there's some things you can change here in there but uh um no i think you need to understand when you get to formula one a race win doesn't necessarily mean your first place in in the race right um like a race win for me um two years ago like in austria was being third place zero chance i would have ever won a race impossible like unless you'll crash and whatever but in terms of actually achieving our maximal potential um it was the finish in third place and that's what I did.

32:45So I maybe would have been even happier winning the race, but there's no point thinking about it because it just never would have happened. So I just had to be, I feel like a race win was a P3 for me and a bit of... See, what's really interesting is you're describing the process and performance goals that are within your control. The outcome is the stuff that you've learned to park. Yes, exactly. But what fascinates me when I was reading about your background, Andrew, is given your age, that the driver that's been dominant as you've grown up in the sport watching it is somebody that's now a rival yes so how do you mentally get beyond seeing somebody that might have been a hero five years ago to now be somebody that you want to topple uh it's a it's a tricky one because the first few times i really began to or i had a chance to race him were like austria um you would say russia a little bit kind of can I keep a seven-time world champion behind me?

33:43These kind of things, which like they do play in your mind a little bit. And were you thinking that? Can I keep a seven-time world champion? Or were you thinking, can I be the guy driving that car? Yeah, because like at that time I'm thinking, I'm not necessarily thinking exactly those words. Yeah. But the thinking, I'm like, you know, I'm going around and you're just on the straight. You're thinking, all right, like what is he going to try and do now? Like what has he understood or what's he learned over the last, whatever, 20 years? that he's going to try and outsmart me on. Is it the battery?

34:13Is it the tires? Is it the engine mode? Is he going to try and like pull back to make me feel like I'm comfortable and then pounce and then have a go? And all of these things playing in my head, what's he going to try and outsmart me on? Those things definitely play on your mind a little bit. Especially like we spoke about the experience side of it, you know? There's something he's going to be more experienced stay me on um i just need to be ready to anticipate what that might be um i might know it i might not but uh i just gotta be ready for those kind of things so once you then go through that that little feeling you have and those those thoughts and you have an outcome um the outcome of the race obviously was was not a good one uh we should have won and we didn't but um the outcome of i managed to hold him off for as long as i could and he didn't just cruise past me it wasn't like i made a mistake and he came past me he didn't outsmart me um then it just gives a little bit more confidence like well you didn't actually do anything out of this world and do something which i wasn't expecting or anything you know and um and the same way in austria like there wasn't something he just did that extra mile which i was just like wow that's that's unbelievable you know i covered the basics there are smaller things which i need to be prepared for but um these things give you a big confidence booster once you achieve them and um it's just because you kind of overthink it sometimes it's easy to overthink things and that's when it can get much trickier than it needs to be i just get this overriding sense that this would have seemed like such an alien environment when you first walked in and i'm sure the imposter syndrome was strong and you know you would have thought of all those maclaren drivers over the years and the more we've spoken the more comfortable you seem yeah about being a formula one driver behind the wheel how comfy are you as a formula one driver as a public figure i mean i'm thinking the relationship with the press or the the scrutiny not necessarily criticism because i see just positivity about you but i see a lot of scrutiny you know a photo goes up with you and a young lady and i see your name trending on twitter you know i yeah i can't even begin to imagine what that is like because and i don't want this to come across the wrong way yeah but you're still only in your early 20s like when you're 43 maybe you should deal with it but um i just think that all the years of driving and racing carts doesn't equip you for that side of it so where are you on that element these days um i definitely it's like right now i'm definitely in the best position i've been in uh not just like you said as a racing driver but my just being a normal person away from the circuit a bit of that has just come with the making the mistakes and posting something i shouldn't have done or um saying something i should have done and you get again the experience of learning about these kind of things, learning how media can pick up on something so small or how, especially fans.

37:03Would you share with us your biggest learning from that where you thought, I didn't even mean that. I was like, oh, I mean, there's not been one big thing, but it's just been like comments, you know, where I would have said something and like, it would have been probably about Lewis or Sebastian or one of the drivers I respect more than anyone. It wasn't that you said something, which obviously you didn't something about lewis wasn't it about it means less or something if you win in that car or something yeah oh yes yeah yeah well it was mercedes right that's what it was it was like it's a great car kind of comment yes like you you should expect him to win a race because he's in a mercedes which then it gets twisted probably the same thing everyone in the world's thought about but just me saying it in an interview is what changes all so how do you still be yourself um that's that's the tricky thing because like i would never mean something to have bad intentions like that's just not the person i am um unless i really hate someone but uh um i would never mean it especially in an interview when i have nothing against the person lewis at this point or mercedes like what's the reason there's no gain for me to do so there's no that's just silly um so the fact people want to put it across that way um and if people believe that then they obviously just don't know me very well all right but um uh the obvious one is i just got to be more careful with what i say here and there um but uh but you like once you kind of get through it a couple times and you maybe say two or three things people start to just kind of have um like a bit more of a belief in you in the things you say rather than you just saying one comment which is just outrageous um and just kind of maybe the respect as well you got to gain that a little bit of respect by sometimes saying things that people don't agree with.

38:48Um, cause then you lose those say fans, you lose those few people, which are just like, um, hate you, hate you for saying those kinds of things. And I'm very happy to have people, you know, not following me anymore. If they kind of just want to believe everything that they see in social media and things like that. Um, because then they simply don't know who I am very well. So you just gotta, yeah, accept it a couple times like it's you just got to go through those hard times um being told off by the team and things like that um but like you just kind of also realize that you have the right to say things that you want um and not everyone's going to agree with it but yeah like i never want people to think of me in a bad way or think like uh we spoke about in the beginning that i'm think i'm miles better than everyone and i should have more right to do things and say things than other people.

39:38That's far from what I would ever believe and want to lead people to believe. So yeah, it's hard because I would always have the best intention, but just people understanding that is what was difficult. So just saying it like now and people listening to this and the more people will believe, like that's just how it comes. I think even this is powerful and I think maybe two or three years ago, the team or you wouldn't have necessarily wanted a conversation like this, but you get comfortable in your... And it's like, you're here for a short time. You have to be you. You get comfortable with people not liking it.

40:11Like that's something you just have to do. You have to get comfortable with people not liking what you say here and there. And just live with it. Like that's just a part of life. That's people, you know, different opinions. It means you stand for something, surely. Exactly. And I think before I was a little bit more in the middle, you know, where I just, I would say these things, but I just didn't want people to have opinions on me. I just wanted to be nice and in the middle ground of everywhere. Whereas I guess now I feel like I can stand up for my own opinion a little bit more and say what I want a little bit more.

40:43And understand that people are going to be with me and some people are going to be against me. And I'm happy, but I'm fine with that nowadays. Like that's just, I've understood that's life. That's always going to happen as long as people and humans are around. That's just the way we're made. And yeah, just got to deal with it. But that's all. Wonderful. Right, Lando. a quick fire questions the first one is the three non-negotiables that you and the people around you need to buy into the three rules that you live your life by really um enjoy life number one by mile enjoy life um be kind uh you'll help those people you know make their day make their week you know if i take one minute out of my day to go and sign a picture for a kid or something like sometimes it's not necessarily what you want to go and do but you just made that kids year sometimes you know and it's just a cool feeling you get after it um so be kind because you give to them and it'll give back to you eventually number three learn when you know you've done a good job and be happy with that yeah and kind of then make work from there rather than just be kind to yourself right be kind to yourself yeah not only other people but be kind to yourself so those three things are most important to me if you could go back to any one moment in your life what would it be and why i would love to go back to just when i was younger i was always rude to my parents so i'd love to be a bit nicer to them at times um yeah uh be nice to my parents i like the fact you don't want to go and change things like you could easily go back to russia and say oh i'd put on yeah but it would remove the learning you i know i just remove the point of life like everything's perfect it's not as enjoyable so up and down right up and down exactly would you recommend one book or podcast or tv series that are apart from this one yeah um the two that i've read is the my engineer gave it to me it's the one about new zealand sweeping the sheds everything um learning what it means to be a team player rather than ever thinking about yourself first uh that's number one and number two was the subtle arts of not giving a fuck yeah um yeah like again that's one of the things which is helping me like i understand all of these things that go on when you get to formula one and lead up to formula one is understanding what you should care about and what you shouldn't um and uh that's made my life much easier what's been the biggest sacrifice you've made to be become a high performer or would you make it again i would make it again because i've got to live my life and achieve my own goals and not live someone else's life um but uh spending as much time with my family I would say is number one or like not having spent as much time with my family is what I would have done if I was just um I don't know going to school and having a normal job and stuff like that um and the friends you know like the whole social side of it all um yeah that's definitely one thing I would like it's a sacrifice I realize how much of a difference it's made now and just as a family you think like you just want to spend more time with your family and it's always a nice thing and lastly your kind of final message really for the listeners or the viewers if they're watching this on youtube to your uh your one golden rule for a high performance life um oh it's the obvious one enjoy enjoy it i don't know maybe everyone says that but for me it's just like a huge part of my life i gotta enjoy everything i do um you know take time away from work sometimes you can do things you want um but enjoy it and if you don't enjoy it sack it off and go and do something else

44:24damien jake you know i'm really pleased that in that interview we we talked about his upbringing and we you know celebrated actually the fact that he came from a successful loving supportive family because i think that we are probably guilty of focusing too much on people's upbringings when they struggle and we're not good enough at celebrating for some reason it's a taboo subject to celebrate someone who's born into into wealth or into money you know it's kind of i don't know it's almost like we think it makes the journey easier and of course without question it opens doors for people and it helps but it's not everything and i think he's shown that you know money can it can help you to a certain point but you know when he talks about the stresses and strains of his first year in formula one it isn't helpful in that situation you know yeah i think that that's a really valid point jake i mean i i've had people give me feedback on that that when we've interviewed people that we do tend to brush over those people that come from say the public school sector or life of privilege almost as if we're uncomfortable to go there so i think it is important to show that money can grease a situation it can make things a little bit easier and give you maybe greater choice but it doesn't it doesn't immunize you from the pressures of once you're at the sharp end like Lando is you've still got to perform that money doesn't give you that get out of jail card and that's why I thought it was really great in the way that he explained his story and more about the values that has been passed on from his parents that is taken into the world of Formula One and also I think we have to realize and recognize that even if you come from a background of privilege it shouldn't dull the glow around your success you know yes as you say it helps in certain parts but you can come you know there are many many cases of people who come from an amazing privileged upbringing who don't go on to do things like Lando has done and perform on the world stage because they don't have it in them to do that and I almost think that you know he does something amazing and we go yeah but his parents were rich well yeah but that doesn't mean that you know that money from his parents didn't give him discipline and self-worth and determination and resilience and the actual raw talent to be a great Formula One driver and I do think it's important that we recognize that and you know credit to him as well for talking about what it was like in that first season in Formula One because current sports people don't talk about it as much as they should and for him to do that and I know they have a partnership with with Mind as well at the McLaren Formula One team which is an important part of this conversation for him to do that is without question helpful for people starting out on any new venture in their life yeah he's both helpful but really brave of him as well to be able to expose himself in that way you know um and i'd like to give thanks to lucinda uh one of um lando's team there that was great in terms of setting it up i know she listens to the podcast and she told us a really lovely story about lando that that really resonated with me that she was describing that when the drivers get to in the box seat they often get given a McLaren sports car that's worth around a quarter of a million and she said that Lando's parents had intervened at that stage and suggested that a 19 year old boy shouldn't have a car like that and they asked him not to give it to them and I think that one little anecdote is really illustrative of the values that are being passed on to him that you have to work hard hard work isn't a substitute for wealth or privilege and And again, I think it's helpful for anyone of our listeners to understand that.

47:57Yeah. And look, I pride myself, Damien, on having empathy, not opinion, right? But even I, when Lando first got into Formula One, even I was like, oh, well, he comes from money. So, you know, he's obviously paid his way in. And he talked about the fact that it wouldn't have been the same for him if he'd have paid for that seat at McLaren. He was determined to earn that himself, which I think, obviously, massive credit to him. but it's a reminder to all of us that you know we just can't we can't just have an opinion with no understanding or no knowledge and even I was like oh well it's a wealth thing and I'm frustrated and annoyed with myself for doing that because we sit and have that conversation with him and you know we've we've had this conversation privately between us in the past I left thinking I hope my son is like that when he's in his early 20s yeah I would love my you know he was polite he was friendly he hung around after the interview he shook everyone's hand he got to know everyone he talked about the work he's done in the factory with the team this isn't a front or a pretense this is someone who's obviously had a great upbringing but also is a is just a great person himself and is managing to stay true to that and you know what i hope that and i'm sure he will go on to get lots of wins and maybe some world titles i hope if we meet him in a few years time he hasn't lost himself in the world of formula one and success and superstardom and things yeah i think you can sum him up in just one simple word or he was authentic you know i think that that's a testimony to both himself but his parents and also to the team around him you know that lovely story about helping the mechanics out and really enjoying learning his craft before we ever got into that seat tells you why so many people are willing him to do well and again there's a big message for anyone there that be nice you know it's that i heard an interview recently with now rogers that said that his mom had given him advice he said it's the same amount of energy it takes to be nasty as it's the same amount of energy as it takes to be nice so why would you choose to the nasty option when you're going to invest the same energy and i thought that lando was a great example of that yeah brilliant

50:04what a cool conversation with Lando that's the end of today's show don't forget please hit follow and we can keep on growing and expanding the reach of high performance remain humble curious and empathetic and keep finding your own version of high performance

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