Lessons from the month with Danny Drinkwater, Sarina Wiegman, Matt Fitzpatrick, Alex Albon and Shane Parrish

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1:10Hi there, welcome along to another episode of the High Performance Podcast with Jake Humphrey and Damian Hughes. So this is where we reflect on the last month and we just talk about the lessons that we've learned over the last few weeks. It's been another really interesting month, Damian, where the diversity of the guests really stands out. I love recording this because it's often our moment just to put our foot on the ball and stop and look back over the lessons that we've been privileged enough to listen to and I think the first guest of the month is somebody that was putting the foot on the ball permanently Danny Drinkwater you know I felt incredibly privileged that he chose our platform to come and announce his retirement from you know an impressive career of starting out at Manchester United achieving the success of 5 ,000 to 1 odds of winning the Premier League with Leicester City before, he started to come off the rails a little bit.

1:59And I think the fact that he chose to come and reflect on his career, the lessons he'd learned and why he was choosing to step away is a really powerful moment on the podcast because we all need moments to say, are we going after what we want? Is going after our ambitions still serving our life in the way that we want it to be? And in Danny's case, he said, there's other things he wants to do at his age. Yeah. And I've actually had numerous messages from current Premier League footballers and current Premier League managers telling me that they found that episode really important and really valuable for people who are still in the game.

2:33And perhaps in a place that Danny Drinkwater's in where he admitted to us he didn't have the tools to deal with the tough stuff. And it's a really good reminder for all of us that when someone is successful and they do great things and they achieve wonderful moments in their lives, that doesn't necessarily mean they can also deal with the bad stuff. You know, they've been rewarded for success. They've been rewarded for talent. They've been rewarded for being in flow. When those things all fall away, what's left? In Danny's case, it wasn't the tools to deal with the challenges he had in his life.

3:04But actually, we've picked a clip from right at the very start of his career because, well, you explained this because you're the Man United fan and you chose this clip, didn't you? Yeah, I did. Because as a Manchester United fan, we've been served some pretty thin gruel at the minute. So the opportunity to wallow in the nostalgia of the feast that Alex Ferguson served up for us was welcome. But more importantly, it allows us to understand a little bit of the power of Ferguson's culture at Manchester United, where everyone, regardless of their job, regardless of their status, was respected. Let's listen to Danny explain how he learned that lesson.

3:39And what about Ferguson? He's famous for his man management. Is there any sort of examples you can give of his? I had a few dealings with Sir Alex to be honest he was I remember he was a few so for some reason I always got proper close with like the chefs at the clubs and I you know I love my food and I love cooking and all that so just naturally and I remember I was waiting for this spaghetti bolognese what Mike the chef at United at the time used to do fresh I was like buddy L Mike any chance next minute running back in my head I was like what the and he's like you dare speak to him like that again and I was like oh Danny Drinkwater there when he joined us on High Performance I'm not sure how I feel about that clip you know because I think that if it was a school teacher clipping someone around the back of their head I'd have a problem with it I just think that ain't happening in football in 2023 No, I agree I think there's a lot of things that I often encourage people to say don't compare football or elite sport to the world outside of that there's certain behaviours conduct that is unacceptable outside of that world, but maybe is less frowned upon within that context.

4:49So I think there is some context to it, but I think the point I'd encourage people to take away from it is that idea of treating everybody with respect rather than just thinking that they don't do the job I do, so I don't need to speak to them with the same level of discretion and sensitivity that I would do to a teammate. and I think that was what Ferguson's great trick was. I remember Ole Solskjaer telling us about how Danny Welbeck was identified as being an elite talent because he was the kid that used to go and collect the footballs after shooting practice and he couldn't get the ones furthest away.

5:25It was the small behaviours that they felt gave him a clue as to the wider character of the individual and what Ferguson was doing there was teaching Danny Drinkwater, treat everybody with respect and courtesy. And now we go from a Premier League winning footballer to a Canadian writer, thinker, blogger, podcaster, Shane Parrish, who of course created the Farnham Street blog, which is the world's most popular and most read blog when it comes to thinking clearly. Thousands of you have listened to this on the High Performance podcast. Thousands of you have watched this on YouTube so far because it has real, genuine, tangible takeaways, lessons and learnings for how we can live differently.

6:04And I don't know about you, but I absolutely do feel like I'm at times trudging through treacle. I feel like I'm overworked. I feel like I'm putting the wrong priorities at the center of my life. And the problem for me is this has been going on for months and months and months, if not years. Therefore, I'm not solving it. And actually, Shane changed things for me to a point where I'm now living differently. I'll explain more in a minute. But first, here he is talking about the power of getting your priorities right. If you have 10 blocks of time a day and you spread them over 10 projects, that's one block of time a day per project.

6:41You're not going to move very fast. I mean, you're going to feel busy. There's lots of switching costs associated with that, but you're not going to get anywhere. And so what you really have to do in this case, and I'm an advocate of this, and there's no judgment for how other people choose to allocate their time. I think you need to narrow things down to two or three priorities. These are my focus. And if building a relationship and maintaining that relationship with my partner matters to me, I should be able to see that in your calendar. So don't tell me your priorities. Show me your calendar.

7:13Because I think the answer is I just have to work harder. I have to get up earlier. I have to go to bed later. Do you know what I mean? Because you think that if you can pack more into a day, you can get more done. Therefore, you can please more people. So I learned this working at the intelligence agency, right? This is what I thought. I could take on more projects. I could do more things. Just for context, I started working at a three-letter agency, the Canadian equivalent of GCHQ. How's that? So I started working for them two weeks before September 11th. September 11th happens, the world changes.

7:42I basically work with an incredible group of talented people. I don't leave the building almost for like seven years. And I say that a bit hyperbolically, but it wasn't far from the truth either. And so what was happening is I was sacrificing my health. I was sacrificing my sleep. I was being less productive. I was not making the best decisions I could be making, all because I wanted to do my best. And that was the story I was telling myself. And what I didn't realize, and it took me almost falling over basically with exhaustion. The moment of realization for me was I finally went on a vacation.

8:17I think it was 2007. And I went to Italy and I slept for three weeks. I barely left my hotel room. I slept 16 hours a day. And I was so exhausted and so tired. and I was like, what am I doing to myself? Like this isn't, what do I really care about? What do I really want to accomplish? How do I allocate my time to those things? So it's actually counterintuitive, but doing less leads to doing more. So we've actually both changed something really fundamental, haven't we, since we had that conversation with Shane Parrish? Do you want to go first? I reflected on what Shane had said about being distracted.

8:51If you're focusing on 10 things, you're doing 10 things badly in effect. So one of the things that was my big distraction was my phone. I've got my emails on the phone. I've got different apps where people can contact me. So I made the decision to buy a second phone that has no email on it, that's got no apps, but it's just got a camera for when I'm out with my wife and my children. It's got my phone number where my mum and my brothers and my sister can get in touch with me. But beyond that, it's just something that I take out when I'm on my leisure time, so it doesn't allow me to get distracted of checking emails or responding to things that might be important, but are not as urgent as what being able to respond immediately can often convince you of.

9:39It's about that idea of there are things that are important in your life, like hanging out with your kids and your wife, Geraldine. There are also urgent things in your life, replying to that email, confirming something. And all too often, as was explained to us in that conversation the urgent trumps the important so you actually never do the important stuff of connecting with people and taking time out because the urgent stuff always gets in the way yeah so what's your change so mine was around the diary i mean the moment when shane parish said show me your diary and i will tell you your priorities like my blood ran cold i was like shit so my only priorities must be work the train i'm getting the person i'm interviewing the meetings that i'm having so only when he says show me your diary and i'll tell you your priorities that i realize that actually my wife and my kids and my leisure time and my recovery time and my mindfulness and my creativity time i always think to myself why am i why do i never have time to sit and think creatively about the future of high performance or the future of the whisper group or you know coral eyewear or whatever and it's because i don't put it in my diary therefore i assume i'll find that time by default and i never do and then what's the time i spend with my wife and kids the end of the day when i'm knackered and what am i doing in that time i'm already thinking about tomorrow and sending us emails or whatsapping or texting people he has totally changed the way that i operate with the diary on my phone and i'm really grateful i'm really glad about that because i know i've said well i know i've said it to you before but like when we first started working together and then people that go so what's jake like then and the answer i always used to give was reminding me of there's a book called what they don't teach you at harvard and it's almost about the lessons that you learn from just observing people like like there's a tip in the book about going watch people play golf and you'll soon see what sort of character they are do they cheat do they get exasperated when they make mistakes and the example i always used to give for you is that you're always at home so you say that family are important to you and then you will always make time to get home however hard it is wherever you are so that told me something about how authentic but how family was yeah at the center of your life but the problem was i was you know finishing work at 10 o 'clock in the evening in london had to be back in london at 10 a.m the next morning for a meeting i had to go home yes but when i went home i wasn't prioritizing the right things do you know what i mean yeah so i was doing that but i was thinking why is that not giving me the rewards i want well it's because i was still on my phone i was still thinking about work and stuff so it's it's saying to myself right i'm going to get home and the next morning from half six when the kids wake up till eight o 'clock when they go to school my phone is locked away you know that's now in the diary no phone half six to eight o 'clock so you're fully present with your kids so it's giving the time is one thing but getting the process wrong when you've got that time is something totally different and that's what's changed i love that but part of the reason I love it as well is because I think it's important for anyone that is kind enough to invite high performance into their life that we're not sat here claiming that we've got the answers like we come with the mindset of the beginner the student the one that wants to learn as much as anybody else and I think it's a testimony to Shane that he prompted both of us to do something different not just to talk a different game but to actually start behaving in a different way and i think it's a good thing to remind people i think it's easy when you host something called high performance and you have these incredible conversations with these remarkable people you can almost without meaning to put across this image or this idea or this sense that you've got it you've got it nailed like you and me are perfect so now that we're perfect let's go and find out what other people are up to it's the total opposite like we're in so many ways this is such a selfish thing to do isn't it because we are learning at the same rate as the listeners like we're just we're getting things wrong all the time we both feel like failures we both feel like we've got constant missteps in our days so these conversations are great because they help us to correct those at the same time as they help the audience yeah phil jackson the old um american basketball coach often used to encourage his players to come with the mindset of a beginner that assume that you know nothing and that way you're open to everything and every experience And I think that's the mindset that we both try and bring to this.

13:57And hopefully for listeners as well, that just listening to this with the mindset of somebody that knows nothing, you can learn everything. You know what, Damien? It's almost like we've planned this because you mentioning Phil Jackson there actually leads us really nicely into a mention on the podcast this week of a player who Phil Jackson coached. Yeah, so we were really fortunate to go to Coworth Park the week of the BMW tournament at Wentworth to interview Matt Fitzpatrick, the US Open winner, a lad from Sheffield that listens to the podcast, wanted to come on and tell us about his journey of chronicling every note, every shot he's ever taken until he arrived at the summit of the sport.

14:38And then when he arrived there, he got an unexpected text from a sporting superstar. Let's listen to him explain who it was. But you also got a text message, didn't you, after winning the Open from probably one of the greatest sportsmen of all time. Would you tell us who that was, but equally, did you get the chance to follow up and ask them how they'd sustained success? Yeah, the text was from Michael Jordan, which made me laugh because he actually texted me again after I won earlier this year. And it was a different number and I replied, oh, you know, thank you very much. Sorry, who's this? And he's like, oh, yeah, yeah.

15:15He's like, oh, sorry, it's MJ. I was like, oh my God, I feel so embarrassed, you know. I've not spent a lot of time with him but I'm a member of his club in Florida and the guy that coaches him a little bit he's learnt a lot off Michael and he shared some of that with me, like I say I've not spent a lot of time with him but his big thing was practicing with intensity, it's like every shot matters and that's one thing that we've tried to add in to practice away from tournaments, it's harder at tournaments because you've only really got the range. Where I'm a member, there's loads of different...

15:54You can hit a shot here and then walk over there and hit a shot to a different green. We can create the intensity by having it. If you don't complete it, start again. If you don't complete it, start again. It's things like that that I think was so big for him. That's what I've been told by the coach at the Grove, Darren May. and I think that is a fantastic lesson in that every shot has an intention and it's intense and there's a consequence for it and I think it's hard to have that in golf because it's easy to just drag another ball out or try again but if you've only got five shots you've got five shots you need to hit it here the first one if you don't you're done and it's having those things like a task that has a consequence I feel like you then have that intensity and that's more like on the golf course.

16:51I think that's such a valuable example from Matt Fitzpatrick because we can all do that. We can all carry more intention into the everyday things that we're doing that make a real difference. Yeah, do you remember Phil Neville telling us about my hero, Eric Cantona, when he said that what distinguished him was the endless repetition of simplicity. So he would just go and pass a ball time and time again, but he was focused on making that pass perfect. Michael Jordan talking about making every shot you take count and I think whatever it is that we do in life asking the question of what is my intention of this forces us to ignore distractions and make sure that whatever we're doing is the best that we can because I think we often ask the wrong questions you know how long were you in the gym today doesn't matter because you could have done three hours in the gym but unless your intention is right it's a waste of three hours you're much better to have a really well-intentioned 45 minutes of deep work maximum effort work than you ought to have three hours of just walking around and whatever and it's the same with your relationships with people you know is there a real deep connection that time that you spend together we're so obsessed with time but we're not obsessed with the intention in that in that time so i think really ask yourself am i going really deep at all these key moments in my life but also having the same process to your relaxation time you know like relax with intention yeah take a break with intention go on holiday with intention they're really like don't just kind of go on holiday and be on your phone and answer emails for work go deep into the relaxation it's really vital and an important point yeah definitely and i think matt was a great example of somebody that has done that since the age of 15 as we said uh at the start as a young lad growing up in Sheffield, every shot he's played is with the intention of doing the best that he can in that moment.

18:38And that is a method that's allowed him to scale the heights, as he did with the European team at the Ryder Cup in Rome earlier this year. And I love it. Don't you love it when we talk to an elite individual and they're like, oh, I love your podcast. I listen every week. You're thinking, oh. Yeah, it feels validating, but validating from the point of view of somebody that's at the sharp end and still willing to be open to pick up ideas and they're looking outside of their world for tips and techniques that can help them sustain their own version of high performance we also got the chance to sit down not once but twice with Alex Albon the Formula One driver for Williams didn't we yeah I was really surprised by this that I again I don't follow the sport closely but I thought these drivers would be super confident supremely articulate just almost like robots as Fernando Alonso described how he drove a car and yet to meet somebody that was the opposite of that really self-effacing really humble and happy to explain his own vulnerabilities and failings made it a really refreshing couple of conversations now if you're wondering why we had a couple of conversations why we sat down twice with alex albon um well it's because we recorded a conversation at the williams factory and to our great surprise we then got a message from alex's team saying you know what he he enjoyed that so much he wants to make this the ultimate conversation about what life is actually like in Formula One and he's told you about his tough times he's told you about the hard stuff being the second driver at Red Bull losing his seats fighting his way back in he'd also really like to explain to you now how he feels and it's so rare to get 10 15 20 minutes with a top level Formula One driver to sit down for a couple of hours and then a couple of weeks later for another hour or so was was quite something but actually i'm really glad we did it because to tell half the story is to tell none of the story at all here he is they gave me to the last race to try and show my worth so for that i generally do believe they wanted the best for me but it just doesn't it didn't work out and um you know obviously sergio is gonna is gonna take your place and we'll keep you as a simulator driver if you accept and we'll try to find you a place for the year after I remember the walk back to my car I remember obviously had a few moments by myself afterwards it was tough but I thought I would have felt the relief but all I wanted was to get back again I think it's that kind of psychotic need and so people often say how long did it take you to get back into it?

21:25But within a week, I was back in the simulator again, preparing their car for next year, the year that I wasn't going to be in. So it doesn't take too much. How's that then? Because you don't get into Formula 1 without an ego, right? It just isn't possible. Yes. What was your ego saying to you when you're basically making the car faster for the two race drivers, working hard on the scene, doing everything behind the scenes. It was the weirdest kind of yin and yang, like everything pulling away from each other because I knew the best thing I can do for myself is to do the best job for the guys.

22:06I have to commit myself more than I ever have done before and I've got to raise my stock. I've got to show not just the team, Red Bull, but I've got to show every other team on the paddock that I'm a valuable asset to this team. The best job I could do is to make this car as quick as it can go. There were some issues on the gear I drove, this feeling that I had about the car. They were genuine. It wasn't me just saying it, but we fixed a lot of these issues. And I remember in the first test, when Checo and Max were driving the car, it was in Bahrain. and Max, who obviously drove the year I drove with him's car, he said, the car's transformed, it's so stable now.

22:52This is exactly what I needed in the car, that's what I wanted in the car. And I thought to myself, God, if only. It's the ultimate reminder, Damien, that the stuff that is hard for us isn't always bad for us. Alex Albuena is not where he is today as an F1 driver without that tough period at Red Bull. Yeah, and even further, back you know he spoke about some of his own personal challenges he's had with family um and individually as well but what i loved about it was the bit that resonated was where when he when he decided that he was going to have the face-to-face meetings with team principals and convince them of why he was the right man to come back he wasn't going to do it through the medium of a manager or agents representing him he was going to look them in the eye and explain that he was a different person and I think that speaks an awful lot about his strength of character and I think we were privileged enough to get a little glimpse of that and I actually finished that conversation thinking I knew Alex was a really good driver I've met him many times over the years but I'd never seen the Alex that we saw in the second part of the conversation where he's able to really nicely balance the vulnerability with the strength that he's got now and I think all too often you know we look at vulnerability in the elite sports world and think well you're vulnerable that's a weakness but in his case that vulnerability is a strength that vulnerability is making him faster on the track yeah absolutely and you know i'm excited to see what the next chapter of his career holds because he's a man with huge ambition but also his feet firmly booted on the ground of making it happen okay right another clip then the most requested guest actually from our audience for the last couple of years.

24:36We finally got the chance to chat to this person. And not only that, we did it in front of a thousand friends at a venue in central London. And in the second half of our show, we actually handed the microphone over to the audience in the room and we gave people the chance to question the England Lionesses manager, Serena Vigman, about how she has changed the face of English football and brought us our first trophy for 56 years. And the final question of the night came from Bailey. and I think it sums up the energy in the room that night. So my name is Bailey. I'm currently studying a degree in sport and exercise science in my third year.

25:13My question was, what advice would you give to women or young girls who are just starting out in their career, not just in football, but in sport as a whole because we know it's quite a male-dominated field? What advice would you give us as we're just coming up through our education? Go for it. And don't let anyone push you back. and yeah what I said that earlier this evening if if you get the impression that people think you can't do it yes you can trust yourself and and follow your heart keep going tell me Bailey have you been inspired by what Serena's done and the things you've heard tonight yeah absolutely I mean I've always loved football I've always loved I grew up watching men's football but I think as women's football has got bigger I've loved watching that a lot more I think it was said earlier it's such a more inclusive game and what you've done as an individual is absolutely amazing and it's yeah it's really inspiring so thank you for not just what you've done for english football but for sport as a whole oh thank you

26:20it felt like something special happening there didn't it oh it was incredible i think it was beyond us it was beyond sabina it was beyond the podcast i think there was something there about a group of people coming together to just acknowledge a seismic shift in our culture where to have somebody that has led a group of women to break through that glass ceiling and be treated as equals in a predominantly male-dominated sport for a long time felt really significant and I think the questions that were asked from the audience gave us a clue as to the pride the voice the identity that so many young women have gained from watching the lionesses i totally agree and i think um what stood out for me was the emotion she showed every time she spoke about improving other people i think that's a great reminder because i think that we think leadership is about improving ourselves leadership is not about improving ourselves it's about lifting up the people around us and if you want to you can hear all of the questions that were asked of Serena in the room on that evening by downloading the High Performance app just go to the app store search for High Performance and use the code H-P-A-P-P to get access to the app and you will hear among that Dame Kelly Holmes asking a question to Serena and in the answer to that you will get an understanding of how and why Serena puts other people at the centre of what she does I won't explain anymore because I think it's important you hear it from Serena but download the high performance app right now and uh and you can find out more yeah it was brilliant and I'd encourage anyone go and listen to that whole interview and I think hopefully the the energy the warmth the passion for her answers that we felt in the room all emanate through your own ears it's been another amazing month can I just say thank you to the millions of you around the world that have either watched these conversations on YouTube you've listened to them wherever you get your podcasts from you've shared them on social media you've talked about them with your mates honestly the growth and the continued growth of high performance blows us away every single month it's our total privilege and pleasure to be the ones to get to ask these questions but we wouldn't be doing it if you weren't listening sharing and growing these conversations so please do continue to spread the learnings that you're taking from high performance please hit subscribe here where you get your podcasts or on youtube it changes things and more than you can ever know.

28:47And we want to continue bringing you these conversations for free because we love it. Thanks very much for listening and we'll see you soon.