Lessons from the month with Gordon Ramsay, Professor Brian Cox, Delia Smith and Alain de Botton

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1:38Welcome back once again to Jake and Damian. Hi, Damian. Hi, Jake. Talking about our lessons from the month. I mean, it's been another really interesting month with, I guess, four guests that once again remind us of the diversity of this podcast. Yeah, as always, it's like going through a treasure chest of finding incredible gems that they've dropped for us and left for us to go and discover ourselves. And that's what I love about these monthly reflections. We can go back into just a month ago and realise that we've heard so many invaluable insights. So if we open up the treasure chest, what have we found this month?

2:12A diamond in Professor Brian Cox. Yeah, a pearl in Delia Smith. A ruby in Alain de Botton. And the golden crown of it is going to be Gordon Ramsay. awful analogy about precious gems to begin this episode a lot of heavy lifting there there's a strong chance you don't hear this bit because the guys might edit it out but if they haven't i hope you did enjoy it right let's get straight into it time to hear from uh brian cox professor brian cox who joined us on the podcast and i guess really the big takeaway from him for us and hopefully for you as well is that you need to think again about how you think have a listen to Brian talking about the power of being wrong.

2:55I'm interested in the ingredients that go into creating an environment or a culture where that can be embraced, where people don't see it as fearful to be challenged. And I'm interested is what would you see are the most key ingredients to do that? I think, I mean, I think it's pretty simple. It's almost rewarding people for being wrong but you know the sense in which i mean that it's yeah it's saying that it is part of the process of making this better it is for you to recognize when you're wrong find it a positive experience and learn and and there's some that there are this is not a new thought i mean there are industries i know there are safety critical industries where that's absolutely in the culture it's pretty obvious but i think what would be interesting is to move that culture into non-safety critical industries like politics for example it would require a big culture change amongst politicians and voters but the idea that goes back to Oppenheimer the idea that if you talk about policy for let's say something you know really important climate policy for example the question of how you how do you reduce emissions which we know is a problem but how do you reduce it in a way that doesn't disadvantage a section of society that that can't shouldn't be a disadvantage and so on.

4:15It's very, very, very complicated. So therefore, when you put policies in place, some of them are going to be wrong. Some of them are not going to work. And that idea that you have a culture in society that says, well, we understand that it's impossible to get the right policy all the time. But the positive thing, that progress comes from recognising that didn't work and then trying another one. And I think that's really important. So that was a small clip from when Professor Brian Cox joined us on the podcast. Oh, Damien, look, in a world where we hold such sway by people being right, in a world where the media will criticise a politician for making what they call a U-turn, in a world where we demote people and criticise people just for getting things wrong or changing their mind, we finally have someone on the podcast telling us that changing your mind, being wrong, making a U-turn, believing something they're realising what you believe was wrong is a good thing we should be aiming to live like that so when we get to the edge of human knowledge do we realise how much further we need to go and I think Brian was brilliant at that I was talking to a friend of mine recently who'd listened to this episode and he initiated something called the cock-up club and his team where they just get together once a month and talk about some of their biggest mistakes and biggest errors and what they've learned on the back of it because like Brian And as articulated there, that's really where our knowledge begins.

5:41Absolutely. So the next guest we had was somebody that was equally thought-provoking and certainly left us with lots of things to ponder. It was the philosopher Alain de Botton. Let's listen to his articulation on why being average is what we should be aiming for. I think the ability to tolerate one's own averageness in many fields is the beginning of a certain sort of wisdom. And the insistence always on specialness is a kind of malignant situation. At the School of Life, we like a phrase that if you've done well as a parent, your child should have no interest in being famous. Nowadays, a lot of people want to be famous.

6:28It's a very common aspiration. That's a sign that something is failing us in our understanding of an ordinary existence. Say more about that. I believe that an exaggerated desire for fame, for distinction, is often trying to compensate for a feeling of invisibility. And the more invisible someone feels, the more they feel that they must be up on a stage of some sort or another in a spotlight. And scratch below the desire for fame. What is it for? What's it really about? And here I'm really talking about desire for fame rather than desire for distinction on the basis of something you're doing. It's really the desire that other people admire you.

7:14Strangers, the people who don't know you think well of you. And I think it often hides a sad story of some form of invisibility or injury. And I think that the more we create a society in which you don't really exist until you you've achieved distinction. It becomes a kind of arms race. Well, then you have to achieve distinction because there is then no way of getting that distinction. What's the first question everybody gets asked in the modern world? What do you do for a living? And we work, of course we work for money, but we also work in order to have an answer to that question, which will deliver us that other thing we so want, which is a sense of being seen and of being respected.

7:57Well, that was a voice of Alain de Botton there on the High Performance Podcast. it's a really good clip this because I think that, you know, many people, we're both parents, you spend your life telling your kids that you're going to be incredible. I mean, it's very similar to, you know, what Mark Manson spoke to us about, which is it's toxic to tell people you're amazing, you're incredible, you're going to do wonderful things because all it does is set us up to fail. And until I heard that on the bottom talking about this and this idea that, you know, it's been, it's a, it's a false narrative.

8:26It's a man-made narrative that we have to be successful, that we have to chase greatness. we have to chase success you realize that that does far more harm than good for people yeah his final golden rule really resonated with me a long time after the chat where it was about be kind to yourself because that then gives you the capacity to be kind to others and i think when we adopt that kind of mindset we don't see ourselves as failing we see ourselves as being average and doing exactly what we should be. And I think that's really a healthy way of taking the weight of expectation off us and just allowing us to go out there and live a life of freedom.

9:07And let me just really sort of labor the point here as well. If you're listening to this thinking, hold on, the High Performance Podcast is about performance, high performance. It is, you know, this is about performance. This podcast speaks to successful people. This podcast has conversations with those who have a gold medal around their neck or maybe a gold plated tap because they've got so much money or whatever, right? But what we're not saying is that's for everyone. We're saying if that's what you want, go for it and we'll have the conversations that can help to get you there. Aiming for that stuff isn't actually the thing that gets people there.

9:38It's the processes and it's the mindset and it's the behaviors that get you there. But only chase it if you really want it and know that actually from the conversations we've had, there's another side to that desire for success. It can leave collateral damage. Definitely. And I'd offer Alan's interview up as proof to anyone that thinks this is just all about success, being number one, looking to make riches. This is somebody that's making us think and pause and reflect on what success really means and challenges us to come up with our own definition of it. I thought it was a really powerful interview that we're not telling people what to think.

10:20We're trying to teach you how to think. And he did precisely that. and also understand that if you're going to chase success it isn't a linear line there are moments where it feels like a failure there may well even be failures that was articulated brilliantly by the world-renowned chef gordon ramsey who joined us for a conversation oh and by the way as you might expect this clip does contain some swearing did you love the idea of arriving green behind the gills inexperienced in marco's kitchen and then having in your head that one day i'm going going to be a better chef than you. Yeah, because he wanted you to.

10:53He pushed you to the extreme. How did he do that? He drummed it in. You know, if you're going to do it, do it to your best. And if you don't want to do it to your best, get the fuck out of here. Don't waste my time and certainly don't waste yours. And I think it's a lot of life lessons early on because you're getting structured, you're getting hungry, you're getting knowledge, and all of a sudden, you're becoming a beast because of the monster he created and the monster you're working for. And so I see those environments all the time and I say to the individual, stay in that environment get what you need and get out and when the shit hits the fan learn to dance in the storm it's a great place to be in because somewhere down the line there's going to be a shit storm on your radar and you're going to stand tall in that storm and you're going to get through it what a clip what a clip man like coping with the storm dancing in the rain pushing through the bad stuff the crap times that is actually what high performance is yeah now I wasn't present for this interview Jake but I've listened to it back and I found it so powerful especially the bit when he spoke about the specifics of some of those difficult times like the difficulties in relationships with family members that were working with him and how he'd had to almost ride through those dark times and yet he saw that as the making of him rather than the breaking of him I must commend you as well Jake I thought but you did a brilliant job there.

12:19Oh, thanks, mate. To be honest, Gordon made it easy. And actually, when we finished, I said to him, oh, thank you so much for joining us, right? We were walking out of the room at this point, and he went, well, I'm here to talk. What did you expect? And I think that actually, obviously it's not in the interview, we'd cut by that point. I think that's an interesting insight into his mindset as well. Like, everything is purposeful with him. He has intention and everything he does. So if he's going to come and do a podcast interview, it's not like, oh, right, I'll work out what I'm going to say when I'm doing it.

12:47It's like, I'm there to talk. I'm there to share. When he's setting up a restaurant, he's there to make it the best restaurant in the world. When he's on a TV show, he's there to make it the best TV show on the planet. And I think often doing things with intention, with real purpose, like imposing your will on stuff, is a really good lesson. And I think, you know, Gordon is the epitome of that. And talking of chefs, we were joined by another person famous for cooking this month, but it's fair to say a slightly different conversation, right? Which is what this podcast is all about. Yeah, let's listen to Delia Smith, not only challenge us, but hopefully challenge our listeners in terms of what they expect from a conversation with her.

13:27Especially the connection and the community, because there aren't many areas of life now where there's still proper community. And community is where people become themselves. People become their best when they're in community. When they're with other people, that's when they rise up. and become truly themselves. I've learnt a lot from you, Damien. Oh, well, thanks, Damien. Damien talks about social glue. Explain your thoughts on that. Social glue. There is this kind of invisible connection that we all have that we can ignore. We don't realise it's there. But when you get, you know, people together and when they become team, you know, that is quite, that is it, isn't it?

14:16It's finding, as you said, that social glue. So where have you seen it applied most powerfully then?

14:27Wherever there is community, wherever there is strong community. I mean, I had somebody write to me the other day and ask me to say a few words. And she was in Norfolk helping poor families, you know, to cope. and she said it's amazing how when you give people, you give them freedom, when they come together and you give them freedom, up come the ideas, up comes the sort of, you know, imagination and the, it's all there. But I think it needs other people to bring it out. And do you think we've lost sight of actually how powerful we can be when we're together? I think so, yes. I do think so. I mean, that's where the power is.

15:15I mean, if everybody in the world today got the social glue, got together and said we're having no more authoritarianism, we wouldn't have any. Delia Smith, one of my heroes, not just because she obviously owns the football club that I support, but I just think, man, if we could all aim to have her kind of mindset, her spiritual awakening, her love and care for other people, her consistency to see these ideas through, to live with that real intention, that real passion. Man, it's good. Well, she captured the essence of what we're trying to do with the high-performance community. And she spoke about the power of social glue, where alone we can do so little, but together we can do so much.

16:02And this month we've had a great reminder of how powerful we are when we come together as a community. And I like speaking to people from all different walks of life, all different successes, all different age groups and things. There is something about having conversations with people in their twilight years, in their 80s, in their 90s. We've spoken to people across those age spectrums where they have a really clear view about who they are, what their role is. I just think it's important that we pay attention to people at that point in their lives. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, definitely. That's where that wisdom that's been hard worn.

16:37Yeah, wisdom. that's the word wisdom yeah so delia told us that great story when her agent for years had said to her keep your mouth short don't talk about political events and when she got beyond 70 she said you can say whatever you like now you've got the freedom to do it and she speaks with real freedom and clarity of purpose so there you go this month brian cox allen and bottom gordon ramsey and delia smith with us on the high performance podcast of course you can go back to listen to any of those episodes. There's more than 200 other episodes to choose from as well. And don't forget, you can get early access to all of the content by downloading the High Performance app.

17:12Just go to the App Store, download High Performance, and use your code H-P-A-P-P. Thanks for listening.

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