Lessons from the Month with Will Still, Steve Hansen David Smith MBE and legends of the Ryder Cup

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1:38Hi there, welcome along to one of the episodes of the High Performance Podcast that myself and Professor Damien Hughes love recording the most actually. We're about to look back on what's been another interesting month Damien on the High Performance Podcast. Definitely Jake, I think practicing the pause, sometimes just stopping what you're doing and pausing, taking a breath and reflecting is invaluable in pretty much every aspect of life and I think these lessons from the month are often a really good reminder of what we've done but what we've learned and what we'd like to direct our listeners towards.

2:09Look it's been a sport heavy month, we've had a Ryder Cup special we've spoken to football manager Will Still, former rugby manager Steve Hansen and also David Smith who won gold in London 2012 but has had recurring cancer diagnoses which has made his life a real challenge and he's managed to find happiness through the challenges. And I think that sometimes when we speak to, you know, four sports people in a month, there's this idea that, oh, maybe High Performance is a sports podcast. It really isn't because we're talking to the person. We're not talking to the athlete or we're not talking to the coach, are we?

2:40100%. We've not spoken to golfers. We've spoken to some people that just happen to play golf. We've not spoken to a football manager. We've spoken to a young man that just happens to work in that. The life lessons that we're taking out from them had nothing to do with the sport. I don't think we spoke to Will Steele or Steve Hansen about tactics or how they set up a team. We spoke about how they create cultures and environments where the people in their team can thrive and hopefully people can listen to them and take something away into their own lives and their own world. Absolutely. Well, let's start then.

3:14Let's reflect on our conversation with the current Ryder Cup captain, Luke Donald, and two former captains, Sam Torrance and Paul McGinley, who's been a previous guest on High Performance. I mean, this was cool because we went to a hotel where the Ryder Cup team was staying and you'd walk in, Rory McIlroy was sitting in a cafe having a coffee while we walked in. There was the great and the good of the golfing world walking around and there was a bit of a cracker in the air. It was kind of, I think there was this sense when we sat down to talk to them that they know they're on the edge of a big moment and Sam Torrance was nervously excited about it.

3:48Paul McGinley was analytical and thoughtful about it. and I think actually, you know, Luke Donald was aware of the scrutiny that he was about to face. Yeah, I mean, I loved it. I loved, like, Sam Torrance when he came in the room really impressed me the way that he went round and introduced himself to everybody and then what really stood out for me was when he left the room, he went round and repeated everybody's name and got it absolutely right. That told you what sort of a man he was and therefore what type of a captain he was, that kind of warm, inclusive sense. Paul McGinley who came in and he had that sort of keen analytical eye of where do I need to sit how do I need to make people feel comfortable which tells you something about him as a leader and then Luke came in and he was almost very quiet and contemplative and very reflective and willing to listen to other people's views and I think that gives you a really fascinating intriguing look into what kind of captain he's going to be and we love doing these round tables because it's so much less of an interview and so much more a conversation between a current Ryder Cup captain and the previous generation of captains.

4:55Here's a clip. Talking of picking players, obviously you didn't pick him in 2014, did you? Are you going to bring that up? Yeah, I think we should. Let's get to the bottom of this. I think we should. I'm blaming Sam. He was my vice-captain. So we've got the captain and the vice-captain not picking the current captain in 2014. I think we should finally get to the bottom of this who won in 2014? do we have any boxing gloves under the table? I think he did the right job I think he did but I think it's just very interesting no you're stirring it up you're not getting there Jake you should be having the two glasses of wine but not us great yes we should all be on the wine no but I think it's very interesting how you make these decisions how you deliver the news but also how the players take that news I mean I don't know does it still sting now?

5:43the hardest call to make isn't it? it is the hardest call I had to make it very... It's the happiest call for seven of them. A few tough calls, especially one. But I mean, yeah, I was, you know, when you get that call and you're not, when you're left out, you feel a little bit, you know, lost, you're like, wow. It's so disappointing. You know, two years before I was playing number one in the singles in Medina and then suddenly, you know, my form did drop. I mean, I understand that. And I think as a player, you realize that you have the ability to get into the automatic spots. and if you don't, it's out of your hands and that's a little bit on you as a player.

6:21You should always, you always have the ability to control your fate. If you play well enough, you're going to be there. There is something in those conversations about you and I just shutting the hell up and allowing them to converse and I actually quite like it when you see there's a moment where they actually forget that we're there and they're talking as three current or former golfers. It's a privilege. I mean, when Luke was talking about one of the aspects of his captaincy and then Sam just said to him, listen, it's that first moment when you go out and the crowd are clapping and the adrenaline and then Paul McGinley chipped in with the idea of, you know, you always want to be the hunter and not the hunter, then how you can channel that energy, you can either ride the wave or you can let the wave consume you.

7:06It was fascinating to hear them guiding and telling Luke how it should be and what was really intriguing was Luke making notes and really absorbing the lessons of those that have been there before him. Are you saying if Europe wins the Ryder Cup, it was this conversation where Luke learned the skills that's going to deliver it? Well, natural humility means I don't think we can claim that. But I think for Rose, well, yeah, it is us. But I think for anyone listening to that, it's like being invited into that inner sanctum. That's a real privilege to go into the dressing room and to get an insight of what you're going to see is the external view of how they go and perform.

7:46But we've got to see the internal mechanisms of it. And that was an incredible privilege. Absolutely. Right. On to the next guest. Will Still. What a brilliant guy. What a fascinating guy. You know, when you meet someone and you just think, I hope life's kind to you. I hope things fall your way. I hope things happen that you want to happen. I hope you get the rewards for the skill and the talent that you've got, but most of all, I just hope that you live a happy life because you're the kind of person that just deserves to be happy. Yeah, I loved it. I absolutely loved somebody that's gone into the bear pit of an industry like football and almost just decided to back themselves and not to try and put on a mask, not to pretend to be somebody they're not, just to take the person they are and just be pure, unvarnished version of themselves.

8:34And the fact that people buy into his authenticity, they want to play for him, They want to respond to his messages and his lessons. I think, again, we were really lucky here on the podcast. We got a sense of the kind of leader that he is. And I think authenticity is a really powerful virtue that Will demonstrated. So Will Steele is the current manager of Stade d 'Harrin, who are a team in the top flight of French football. He was given his first management job at 24. He's now only 30 years old. and in 10 years he went from managing the Preston under 14 side to managing a team against Lionel Messi.

9:14I mean that is the career path of this guy. It's a unique story. No one else has done it like him and for him to come on here and share his story, his passion and his thoughts was special. What did you take from it? What was the biggest lesson that you took from Will? I loved the bit about like I'm just doing my best and I'll get things wrong and actually I think it was nice that we spoke to Will at this point in his career because I tell you, I've interviewed many, many, many Premier League top flight football managers and they've gone beyond that moment where they're brave enough to say, I'll get things wrong.

9:44They don't dare get things wrong. So then they become rigid. Then they become fearful. Then they do get things wrong. Then they do lose games of football. Then they do get sacked. And it's almost like Will is still at that point in his career where he has the freedom, the freedom to come on a podcast and talk in the way he did. And then you see the value in that. You know, that will be listened to by football players, by football club owners, by other football managers. And it can do him nothing but value. And that's why I want more football managers on this podcast. Well, that's it. I mean, I'm interested then of what is it that you think stops managers being like that?

10:21I think it's fear. I think it's fear of the media, fear of social media. but also I've never known a more toxic, black and white, vitriolic, aggressive football world. I mean, one of the things I'm most excited about, no longer being a football presenter, is not having to be in that world where it's heaven or hell, it's black or white, it's good or bad, where there's no nuance, where there's no attempt to understand people. You know, Ange Postacoglu, the Spurs manager, spoke in a press conference a few weeks ago about, understand that these are young men, understand that these guys aren't robots and they'll be struggling in their private lives and their personal lives.

11:01And I see everyone applauding it, I see people sharing it, I see the media talking about it, putting Andrew on a pedestal saying how great it is. The very next day, I see them passing judgment on a footballer's ability or performance or approach or decision making with no understanding of what's going on in that player's personal life. I think that we have footballers playing rigidly and fearfully because they know the scrutiny that comes with the game. And I have spent the last 10 years working with former England players who said they never enjoyed playing for England because while they were on the pitch playing for England and they misplaced a pass, they're thinking about what's going to be written about them in the papers the next day.

11:40So I don't see who it's serving. That's really telling. Like you're saying, that's why I think we've been really lucky to get access to Will at this stage of his career then. And hopefully it can inspire other people within the game that recognise how powerful authenticity can be and come on and share their story. Let's hear a clip then from Will Still. Here he is. You know, when I took over, it's like, right, I'm big, I'm ginger, I talk half-decent English, half-decent French, I'm from Belgium, working in France, and I'm going to get things wrong. Deal with it. Junya Ito, he's Japanese, he pretends he can't speak English, but he can.

12:21he pretends he doesn't understand French but he does eats rice every lunch time for a meal isn't going to eat whatever we eat isn't going to talk whatever you're talking about deal with it Marshall Munizzi from Zimbabwe talks about cricket runs a lot, smiles a lot eats weird things too makes a lot of noise but he's not the most comfortable in that situation deal with it and I just went through every player and said right we all have our own specifics we all have our own weird traits of character we all have almost that thing that makes us special don't hide it you know don't don't try and put it away don't try and be someone that i don't want you to be just be whoever you want to be just make sure you're there to win games well the next guest that we did then was the uber brilliant steve hansa now this is one of your not just favorite ever records i think this is one of your favorite days.

13:20Oh, I loved it. I've never seen a guy on a one-man mission to get a bunch of Kiwis as drunk as possible, as quickly as possible. You were buying the pints for Steve's family, like every time I turn around, there's another pint lined up. Well, the story you're getting, Steve, is a bit of an odyssey. So I've wanted to have him on for ages because I've heard so many incredible stories about the man he is, not the coach, just the man he is and the culture that he created. So I've got to give credit here to a friend of mine in New Zealand, Ricky Tahiri, who works at Canterbury. And I'd been in touch with Ricky and I said, is there any way you can get me Steve's details?

13:57And he managed to get me the details for Whitney, Steve's daughter, who's also a successful coach herself. We got hold of Whitney, who then passed on her dad's number. And eventually Steve agreed to come on when he was at Twickenham. So we invited him and we were privileged as well that he had his six kids that came along with him so i think that actually was a really powerful addition to the podcast because if you remember his kids were in the room listening to their dad talk and i think that led to one of the most moving moments on the podcast when you asked him the question what's the hidden cost of a life of high performance and it's worth listening to the answer that he gave us here.

14:4120 years is, you don't get 20 years for murder, do you? So it's a long time. And it's a long time without your family.

14:54Sorry. Don't apologise.

15:01Yeah, it's a long time without your family and, you know, you owe them something. at some point the team needs you to allow them to try something different and you just know it's time so pull the trigger and get out It sounds a bit like a pause in some ways when you hear it when you see it, when you watch it on YouTube or on the High Performance app you really see that he is a man who wears his emotions very close to the surface has always learned to do that. Yeah, definitely. And what I find really interesting on this, Jake, is that I've spoken to quite a number of people within the rugby world since that episode came out, and all of them have responded to that moment where they've spoken about the honesty, the cost that Steve tells us that he bought, but also the reflections that it's forced them to do to think about are they trading happiness or every decision we make comes with a consequence and are they happy to keep paying the price?

16:08Now, there's no definitive answer to that, but that's one of the big factors that we want our listeners to take away from this podcast. We're not telling you what to do, but we do want to make you think and maybe reflect on what you are doing and is it leading to high performance in your definition of it? And I think Steve's honesty there certainly forces us all to reflect on our own decisions and our own actions. and I think it's only right if we're on a podcast called High Performance that we make it clear that everything has a cost and so many guests that have come on this podcast have spoken about the cost of high performance and I think that's when we maybe get things wrong where we believe that high performance is the achieving of things you know, high performance really should just be finding the best we can be at a certain thing but even that costs because to be the best rugby coach you can be you need to spend time with your players you need to be away from home you need to travel the world you need to isolate yourself at times you know you need to deal with complex emotions that in truth even your partner and your children and your best friends can't relate to because they're not in your world and that is the way it is and and i think it's only after you've had that career you can do the work to to come to terms with what you had to sacrifice and i think that's maybe why he's emotional is because he has thought about it he has done the work and he has realized he gained so much but also lost so much yeah and to me one of the biggest compliments we've had was i got a message off dan carter who i'm sure won't mind me sharing that he'd listened to the steve interview and his message was that he thought that was the truest representation of steve hanson that anybody outside of his world has ever heard and that to me was a huge compliment that both Steve was willing to share that with us, but also it felt like a huge privilege that he trusted us to come and open himself up and make himself vulnerable.

18:01Right, final conversation. Talking of privilege, the privilege to go to the Happy Place Festival, see the thousands of people that are turning up to see the amazing work and the brilliant community, really, that Fern Cotton has created with Happy Place. And we were really privileged to play our own small part by interviewing David Smith, a former athlete who sadly has throughout his career been regularly diagnosed with recurring cancers, cancers that have required him to have surgeries that have left him paralysed, yet still he continued to be an athlete. He found a way back. The stories he told were quite remarkable.

18:38I don't want to die. And it's, yeah, it's scary to deal with it and know that it's going to happen again. there has to be a level of acceptance of mortality within it all and just to make peace with that i've not i'm the only scotsman that doesn't drink alcohol but i have a beautiful 18 year old bottle of glenfiddich in my house in scotland and i'm actually on route to get that bottle of whiskey now to to go and sit with my friends because i realize that in many ways it's a gift because sometimes we don't really get to sit and be with our friends and maybe say goodbyes and stuff and And for this, I'm going to go and knock on some doors and sit and open this bottle of whiskey and sit and just share some stories.

19:24Because I realize at the end, all we have is memories. Memories are made from experiences. And we don't really have experiences if we don't learn to savor the moment. And savoring the moment for me is about being where your feet are and being in the present moment. And I think that's how I'm dealing with the current situation. So how long did the doctor say that your life expects and see? They won't give me a number on that. I did ask that question. I thought it was an appropriate question to ask. What can they do? They can do surgery again. So that would be surgery number seven. They said radiotherapy would maybe buy me six months.

19:59But I went away and I think now that I don't have my mom's medical book to look for, I do have Google. I typed it straight in Google and the answers came up right away. There's a new, things move in the medical world so fast. There's a new treatment in Germany called carbon ion therapy. so I'm going to head to Germany very soon to have discussions with doctors there to be like you know is this something that they think would work and you know we have 18 ,600 seconds in a day if that's right if my math is right I just want to live all of those seconds and I'm very clear in my values and my philosophy for life and if I can just get the most out of them and I've wrestled with the question right now would I rather live 50 years but live every day or live to 100 and I've not lived any days and i don't know if i'm scared of death i am scared of death but i'm also scared of not living so for me at the moment it's just like how do i get the most out of life who do i spend time with how can i influence people's life to to go out smash it enjoy every one of those seconds every one of those breaths and and just you know can i say balls grab life by the balls it's the most moving conversation um to have with someone when they've had the news only a few weeks before that their cancer is advancing at an alarming stage.

21:15And when I think back to that conversation, I actually don't think about what we spoke about. I think of his face when he got the standing ovation in that tent. And you saw him welling up. He just looked out at the crowd. He sort of patted his chest where his heart was. And I don't know. We don't know what the future is for David, right? But what I do know is that I am so proud that he was able to be given that moment in front of those people. and that in itself is special. Yeah, so first of all, I'd echo your point around the Happy Place Festival was one of those places where people have found their own tribe, where they can just come and there was a moment seeing hundreds of people doing yoga in a field together and knowing that they felt safe to be able to do that is a real testimony to what Fern and her team have created there.

22:06So to be invited to be part of that, as you say, was a real privilege and to be able to go and have that conversation with David in a place where he felt safe and brave enough to be able to share some of his lessons that he's learned was incredible and the thing that I took away from it was that fact that he said just put your phone away and connect with people just be with people because he's in that difficult place David of he's been given the diagnosis and he's now got that question of how hard do I fight to extend my life but how how do I actually make the most of the life I've got? And I think that's a question that all of us are wrestling with to some degree.

22:45And I think his lessons of just make the most of the time you're here is an incredible lesson, not only from the month, not only from the year, but for life. Wonderful. Damien, thank you so much, mate. Thanks, mate. I love these pauses for thoughts. They're great, aren't they? A chance to reflect. Just a quick reminder, you can watch all of these episodes on YouTube as well. I just think it just gives you a little bit more of an insight into the emotion that people are going through when they're talking to us on these podcasts, when you can see them as well as hear them. And for those of you that haven't yet, don't forget that for free, you can download right now the High Performance app.

23:19Just go to the app store, search for High Performance and use the code H-P-A-P-P. That's H-P-A-P-P. And you can get access to daily boosts. You can get extra content. You can get early episodes before anybody else. It's a brilliant offering. Download it right now. get involved and join the thousands of people who are already enjoying high performance on the high performance app thanks for listening and on behalf of myself damien and the whole team we'll see you very soon

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