Looking back on the Champions League

0:03Hi there, you're listening to High Performance, the award winning podcast that unlocks the minds of some of the most fascinating people on the planet. I'm Jay Comfrey and alongside Professor Damien Hughes we learn from the stories, successes and struggles of our guests, allowing us to explore, be challenged, grow and expand our horizons. And after hundreds of conversations we've discovered that every guest has managed to unlock their potential. This podcast seeks to find out how they did it. Welcome to a special Champions League episode of the High Performance Podcast. Now, by the time you're listening to this, I'm actually going to be already in Istanbul, hosting my last ever match for BT Sport.

0:47So for those of you that listen to this podcast outside of the UK for the last 10 years, I've hosted Champions League and Premier League football for BT Sport, which is one of the broadcasters of football here in the UK where I live. and what I thought would be quite nice is just to spend today's episode actually looking back over some of the lessons some of the stories and some of the conversations we've had on this podcast with people who've been right at the centre of the drama when it comes to the biggest match in European club football the Champions League final so this episode is being released on Friday morning which means that tomorrow Manchester City go up against Inter Milan for the right to be crowned Champions of Europe and it's been a long long wait for Manchester City to pick up this trophy It's actually two years since they lost in the Champions League final against Chelsea.

1:31So I thought actually a really good place to start is something that is relevant to all of us in all of our lives. The power of picking yourself up and going again. So we spoke at the back end of 2022 to the Liverpool captain Jordan Henderson, who explained to us what Jurgen Klopp did after their Europa League defeat to Sevilla in 2016. It was really interesting. Have a listen to this. I can remember losing the Europa League final and that was the second final losing I think that year I'm going back to the hotel where if we're won there'd have been a party and all of that sort of stuff and as a player you're just so down it's a big moment you know European final lost and he was like oh yeah bad moment but that's when that's when you stay together that's when you need everyone together and and also by the way this is just the beginning this is just the start so so he said yeah and then by the end he basically went i want you all on dance floor by the end of the night and we're singing we are liverpool he's singing we are liverpool and everybody's saying we are liverpool what did that do for you that completely my my mind was was like what like this is like just totally different than anything that i've ever experienced before and to think like that so close to losing a big game, give me definitely so much confidence to think he's so confident that this is just the beginning.

3:06He's singing. He's obviously looked at it. We've done so well to be able to get to the final from he's only started maybe seven, eight months ago to he could see the signs of improvement and he knew it would continue in that way if we carried on doing what we'd been doing. And he knew we needed everybody together to be able to do that. So actually, in the end, I think as players, you took a lot of confidence from actually, well, this is just the beginning. Now, Damien and I love that because all too often, and it's happened a lot, it's happened particularly with Arsenal and the conversations on social media around Arsenal in the last few weeks.

3:48Like we talk about defeat as being a wholly bad thing, particularly in this era where everything is black and white everything is one way or the other there's no nuance we all seem to come at life from polar opposite angles which is all rather depressing but there is truth in the fact that you learn a huge amount from defeat you know i saw a brilliant conversation actually that ed sheeran was having on a podcast recently with howard stern where he spoke about all his learnings come from defeat and i love that approach from jürgen klopp to say to his players this is the beginning of the journey i want you on the dance floor celebrate the fact you've made it to a final and be excited about what is still to come.

4:24And what was still to come was a Champions League final, this time in Kiev, this time against Madrid. It was two years later and Jordan told us all about it. I think what you were referring to was that after we lost to Madrid in Kiev, Champions League final. So that was the year before we won the Champions League final. And again, in difficult moments that's when he's really really good yes he's very emotional on the sideline, he's very animated and stuff, but actually in the dressing room he's not like that when the game's on when he's speaking at half time he's very clear on what he's saying, he's not shouting he's very clear and you can understand exactly what he wants and it's the same after games or after big moments, big defeats, that the perspective that he has and he knows that ultimately it's just a blip or bump in the road, you know, and you can use it to be stronger.

5:31And every time we've had one of them, he's always dealt with it in the best way and we've always responded in the best way. What did he do after Kiev for you? Kiev was the one where it was like, don't worry, we'll go again. Yeah, yeah. You know, again, I don't think many people at the start of that season would have said that team would have got to a Champions League final. And I think he could see the bigger picture of that. But when you're a player, it's the end of the world. It's a dream of playing in a Champions League final. You never quite know if you're ever going to get to play in another one.

6:01You know how difficult it is to get there. So it's the end of the world. But so close after a defeat to say, don't worry, we'll go again. And again, people can just say that. But when he says it, there's a genuine belief and you feel that from him. So there you go. Beaten in the Europa League final in 2016, beaten in the Champions League final in 2018. But if life is about one thing, it's about realising the power of consistency and playing the long game. You know, like if you go to the gym just once for nine hours straight, not only are you going to injure yourself, you're not going to see huge gains.

6:38If you just go to the gym every single day for 20 minutes for six months, then you will see the difference. life isn't about big gestures and huge moments for a short period of time it's about constantly going constantly chipping away constantly doing your best finding your version of high performance again and again and again and I love those stories from Jordan Henderson because of course as we know Liverpool eventually lifted the Champions League trophy in 2019 and in that final they beat Tottenham and we spoke to a few people involved in that defeat for Spurs here's Kieran Trippier sharing his thoughts about that defeat.

7:14Can we talk about the biggest game of your career so far, the Champions League final? Do you have fond memories of the fact that this guy that got released by Man City, ended up at Barnsley, almost quitting the game, got to a Champions League final? Or do you not like revisiting it because you didn't win? Of course, I'm disappointed that we didn't win it, but I'm just really proud of the way my journey's gone, if I'm honest with you, from what you just mentioned then to a Champions League final. And I never thought for one second I'd be playing in a Champions League final. So to reach it the way that we did reach it, it was always a special moment.

7:50But, you know, I think the first five minutes killed the game really in that final. When you think back to that run to the final, what is the moment that springs to mind for you? I think there's so many. I think, being honest with you, I think the City game, I think it was Raz who scored in the last second and then he was offside. and Llorente scored Llorente scored but then after the Ajax when we was a 3-0 down with 45 40 minutes going Lucas scores as that trick so if you're a Spurs fan or indeed if you're now a Newcastle fan which is where he plays his football you can hear the full conversation with Kieran Trippi or one of our most downloaded podcasts and actually one of our most popular videos on YouTube as well we were also joined by Maurizio Pochettino and he spoke to us about the fact that not winning the trophy in the final, even though you're in the final is amazing, is actually a failure.

8:45Here's what he told us. I'm still thinking, I think when it's a massive disappointment in your life, of course that is football disappointment, sport disappointment, it's completely different when the real life affects you. Yes, it's going to be, you know, in some point it's very proud to help a club like Tottenham to achieve the Champions League final and to work and I think made an unbelievable season. But in some point really sad because it was a great opportunity for us to be in the history of football. and to provide the fans massive happiness. And for us to say we were capable with everything again to be very successful.

9:47I think we were very successful, but always like we were talking when we started the podcast, yes, the society put, if you leave the trophy, you are very successful. But the second is a failure, no? Yeah. but we are not thinking like this. You see, I'm so torn about this because I think that football is such a game of chance. You know, you take a penalty that hits the post, you swing a ball into the box and a player is one centimetre offside. That is what can determine the difference between success and failure. Edwin van der Sar is going to be on this podcast on Monday and, you know, he speaks to us about after a really difficult year at Ajax, which actually culminated in him leaving his job as the CEO, our conversation with him was the last one he gave as the CEO.

10:37He spoke to us about the fact that we obsess about football, but actually it's such fine margins. Like luck plays such a huge part. So I do disagree that not winning a trophy in a final is a failure. I do agree getting to the final is incredible. And I just can't see that there's a failure in not winning a final of a European competition that's taken you an entire season to get to the final of. Because there are so many factors that can determine whether you win it or not. And the biggest thing you've done is learn a huge amount so when you get the next opportunity to be in that final, you're more likely to win it as we heard from Jordan Henderson and Liverpool earlier on.

11:13Let's go all the way back now to episode one of High Performance. Ria Ferdinand joined us on the podcast and the really interesting thing that he explained was how he felt he didn't fit in at Manchester United until he'd won the Champions League. Here's what he had to say. My first season at Man United, we won the league. But I didn't feel like I was an integral, vital member of that team. They wouldn't have missed me if I didn't play, I felt. And I didn't feel like I even warranted the medal in a mad way. Really? I took it almost reluctantly. This ain't enough. I need them to be thinking about me like they think about X, Y and Z over there.

11:51We know we can't deal without rooting this team. I want to be like that. I need to be like that. When did that change then? Because if you sign for Manchester United, you have a legend walking around Carrington or Old Trafford, but Bobby Charlton, someone like that. At what point, and it's hard to ever think you're level with him, but at what point did you think, yeah, do you know what, I can hold my head up high now in the company of Bobby Charlton? Until we won the Champions League, I felt kind of in awe, not in awe was the wrong word, but I felt a little bit like I'm not at that level yet. I can't look at Robbo.

12:23I can't look at Sir Bobby Charlton and go, how are you doing without real, like, I'm like you, man. I don't know, you're held in higher esteem or you're a better player than me, but I've done something that I'm etching myself in the history of this club from my little bit of my percentage that I've put in. Do you know, I really like that clip because this podcast stands for one thing more than anything else, and that is empathy, empathy over opinion. And I think that we just assume because someone's a professional footballer, they walk around, you know, feeling like they own the world and everything's great and they're flying and, you know, they're brilliant and they deserve to be there and, you know, horrible words get bandied around about footballers, you know, being arrogant and all that sort of stuff.

13:06But there's the truth. Rio Ferdinand, Manchester United signing, didn't feel like he fitted in at the club, didn't feel that he could hold his head up high around United legends until he'd done what they'd done, until he'd won the Champions League. It's also a fascinating insight into a high-performance mindset because for everything that he'd achieved, it was about what he hadn't achieved that was on his mind. I also want to really quickly look back on a couple of legendary Champions League finals. The first one, Istanbul 2005, between another team from the north of England, Liverpool, and another team from Milan, this time in the shape of AC Milan.

13:43Here's Steven Gerrard. Shall I tell you the thing that I think about when I think about you as a leader? It isn't lifting the trophies, it isn't the big lows or the big highs. it is when John Arisa misses his penalty in the Champions League final. And as he walks back to the group, you're the first one to break away from the line of players and put your arm around him straight away and comfort him. And you are on the verge of missing out on your greatest moment as a player because of what he's just done. Yeah, because I think you've got to be a good person as well. I think football's emotions and different things happen.

14:21It's not just all the good things that you see on the TV. People have feelings and you get to know people, you build relationships and you know how much they want and as much as you. There's been many occasions where I've done stuff that's not really to do with football or on the pitch that have made me feel just as proud as going up and lifting a trophy. Like, for example, when tournaments with England haven't gone well and you know that the whole group are about to be battered from pillar to post. and you've had to step forward and do a press conference and take a lot of the responsibility and the blame.

14:54There's a lot of things that come with leadership and it's not just the walking up to lift trophies and getting the credit and getting a 9 out of 10. Were they conscious decisions though? In that John Aronis moment, did you actually consciously think, right, he's going to be really upset with that, I'm going to go speak to him? I want to be there for him. I want to show him that I'm not just on his back when he puts it in the top corner from 40 yards. I'm there for him when he's at his lowest moments as well. And I think that's when you get respected as a leader, when you are there for your teammates in the good and the bad times and the indifferent times.

15:28And I think as a manager, I want to be there for me. Players, you know, players are human beings. I mean, that is leadership in a nutshell. And it's well worth listening to that conversation with Steven Gerrard, if you haven't already. I've been lucky enough to work with him, actually, as a pundit. over the last three or four years. And he remains a leader, whether he's a manager, whether he's a former player, whether he's a pundit, like when he talks, you listen. And I love spending time with him. And I think that that small insight into how he dealt with struggles and issues and problems at Liverpool is fascinating.

16:07You know, we recently had a conversation that's not been on the High Performance podcast yet with Steve Hansen, the legendary coach of the All Blacks. And we were talking about culture and I was talking about rules. And he said, yeah, but rules don't create a culture. Rules enforce a culture. Rules push you down the road of buying into a certain culture. That wasn't a rule that Steven Gerrard went over to John Arisa when he missed that penalty. That was an insight into the culture at Liverpool. No one can create that. No one can build that in a false or fake way. You either have a great culture or you don't.

16:40And the culture Liverpool had where you stand alongside the person who's struggling the most, you sit down right next to them when they're struggling, when they're in their lowest moment, gives you the power to go on and win, win a competition like that. I remember talking to Seel Kualisi, the captain of the Springboks South African rugby team. And he said to us that, you know, he sees his teammates, his brothers, and they work hard to make sure they really understand each other. And they're there for each other, care for each other, love each other. Because in the dark moments, in the hard moments, when you look to your left or your right, you don't see a teammate, you see a brother.

17:14You see someone that you share a really deep connection with and that can actually spur you on to go a bit harder, a bit deeper and do more than the other team. And how can we talk about the Champions League without talking about what happened in 1999? Manchester United, a goal down, going into injury time at the end of the match. Teddy Sheringham equalises. Moments later, Ole Gunnar Solskjaer's finish made United the first and only English team at the moment to win the treble. Of course, a record which is under threat tomorrow night when Manchester City face Inter Milan in Istanbul. Here's what Solskjaer told us about preparing for that moment.

17:47Well, for me, I just played with better players. That meant I got more opportunities to score goals. And yeah, of course, there were better opponents as well. But early on in my life, I was quite good at imagining and living the life. So the goal I scored against Bayern Munich, for example, I'd scored hundreds or maybe thousands of times before. on the field, back home, on my own, going through one-on-one, imagining if I score now, if I hit the bottom corner, I'll win the Champions League or the European Cup, as it was called when I was young. So it was just to push. I've always loved creating my own atmosphere and testing myself.

18:36So when I came here, it's like, well just do the things that you've always done what you've learned but do them a bit quicker but my finishes were at bottom corner so Rina Tassayev who was the best keeper when I grew up he wouldn't even save my finishes even when I was 15 that was my mindset practice as it was a cup final Football is so magic it can give you so much like there's nothing that unites people like football but there's also nothing that can actually create the pain of football. I mean, I won't ever forget the conversation with Frank Lampard, where he spoke to us about being the Chelsea coach, guiding Chelsea through the group stages of the Champions League, losing his job, and then having to watch them be successful in the competition and lift the trophy, and just watching it on the telly, not being involved.

19:28Here's what he said. I was quite thoughtful when I took the job. I gave it a lot of time, going from Derby to Chelsea was something I absolutely had to do and I love the fact that I've done it I don't think about it every day now I'm very Christine always laughs at me I block things off I box them off instantly and move on and I'm good at doing it it's quite a good it's a good skill in this job and so I don't think about it every day now but I do know that I was proud to take the job proud to get us into the Champions League proud to get us through the Champions League group in the next year and I lost the job and I watched them go on to win the Champions League which was a real tough one for me because I was really happy for individuals and the club and the fans were amazing with me from the time I joined till now and hopefully forever.

20:18But the professional side of you goes, you know what I mean? I sat there when we played Seville in one of the qualifying group stages games and we beat them 4-0 away, it was beautiful, we played really well and I remember saying to a couple of the staff, I said, we could win this. We can't win the league this year, man, City and Liverpool, but we can win this with what we have individually in this team if we can get it together. And of course, I had a phase where it didn't go right and I didn't, but I don't regret anything about taking it. Absolutely not. It's a good reminder that, about just how brutal sport and football and life actually can be.

20:52And maybe for the end of our little Champions League special this Friday from High Performance, we should finish with the final word from Edwin van der Sar. we spoke to him recently the episode comes out on Monday as I mentioned earlier in this episode and four years before we recorded this conversation with him his Ajax team where he was the CEO were moments away from making it through to the Champions League final or as Edwin put it almost whatever five fucking seconds from a from a Champions League final in 2019 there you go four years on it still makes him swear he still feels the passion and I hope that you feel the passion tomorrow night on Saturday evening if you're watching the Champions League final wherever in the world you're watching it Manchester City against Inter Milan and let me just say at the end of 10 years of standing on the touchline and getting a very close view of what goes on in the world of football and working with some of the legends of the game who I watched as a football fan for years and years representing their clubs and representing their countries it has been my greatest pleasure to be a football host for a decade it's given me plenty of insight into the kind of things that I bring to the High Performance Podcast.

22:00It's also fair to say that the work I've done on the High Performance Podcast has actually changed the way I see football, particularly the conversations on it around social media, the anger, the vitriol, the abuse. It isn't a nice world at times. And I guess I'm excited about a new challenge. Who knows what comes next? And I hope that whether you're into football or not, some of the lessons in there were really valuable for you. and you can take them away into your own life. Don't forget you can delve into the back catalogue and the archive of High Performance. You can watch the interviews on YouTube as well.

22:34Thank you so much for tuning in. Thank you so much for sharing the lessons you're learning from High Performance, and we'll see you very soon. Take care.