Matt Fitzpatrick: How Tracking Every Shot Since 15 Built a Ryder Cup Winner

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1:50of ourselves whilst we're doing it. And that's where Opera Air comes in. It's a lightweight, fast, secure browser built not just for productivity, but for your wellbeing. With Opera Air, mindfulness is built right in. You'll find free breathing exercises, guided meditations, and soundscapes with ambient sounds, lo-fi music, and binaural beats, all designed to help you focus, relax, and even spark creativity while you browse. go out to dinner people come up can i have a picture can you sign this and it's it's bizarre for me it's really is bizarre the text was from michael jordan he actually texted me again after i won earlier this year it was a different number and i replied oh you know thank you very much sorry who's this it's having the trust in doing what works well for me people laugh at all the numbers and stats that i take down i feel like i've got an edge over everyone because I do that.

2:45Europe have won the Ryder Cup. Oh, man, it was so dramatic. If, like me, you were glued to the television when the singles was going on, thinking, hold on, are we about to throw this away? And then to finally see those celebrations, I mean, it was absolutely incredible. And, you know, one of the key figures in that team was Matt Fitzpatrick. He's a major champion. He's a relentless competitor. Interestingly, though, from our perspective, he's a student of the tiniest details. You know, Matt has tracked every shot he's hit since he was 15. He knows exactly where his game is and where it needs to go next.

3:15And his success has come from meticulous preparation and obsession with the data. This is what he said. I'm obsessed with the numbers because I just feel like if I know where I currently am or know where I am at all times, I know I need to get better than that. Or what do I need to do to get better than that? And then it's like, well, how are we going to do that? Cool, huh? And in this episode, Matt talks to us all about his analytical and data-driven mindset sharing how he finds an edge when others have more natural power how winning the us open and being featured in the netflix documentary totally changed his life and the importance of surrounding yourself with honest people oh also look out for the advice he tells us that he got from a certain michael jordan don't forget hit follow on apple or spotify so you'll never miss an episode of high performance as we welcome to the show rider cup winning hero matt Fitzpatrick

4:09it's learning experience because like I started off the year and didn't play very well and it's like well now I do need you know getting closer to the end of the season running out of tournaments almost and and then all of a sudden something happened and I couldn't even tell you what it was I just started having a couple good results and ended up keeping my card and then all of a sudden it's like well now I'm safe then I ended up kicking on some more and I think for me it was just kind of around 17 and 18 2017 and 18 I think that was kind of the time where I was playing well but like I wasn't kicking on as much as I wanted to you know I was looking at players around me that I knew and I wasn't performing well enough in in the US and that was obviously where where the game was going and that's where I felt like something needed to change.

4:59So when you talk about this sense of expectation that you had of yourself, how did you combat the idea that maybe you had just found your limit? You know, like I can imagine that for some players they get there and the culmination of being on the tour is enough and complacency then kicks in as long as I can maintain this. And you seem to be somebody that was constantly striving for the next target, the next challenge. Yeah, I had a funny conversation with Mike after after the US Open, I was like, it was obviously such a high and I've kind of come off it and I'm like, I almost feel flat. I felt like, what if I, you know, I almost didn't want to go and practice.

5:39I almost didn't want to play the rest of the tournaments for the year. I just kind of wanted to enjoy it. And I'm thinking to myself, well, will I ever get that bug back to go and practice hard and work hard? And I came back like three months later or something when I wasn't playing as well. but I think it's just like always being in my nature that I just feel like I can compete with the best. When I've played my best, I can compete with the best and to me it's trying to get more of that out of me more regularly really. I know people make a big thing about noting down sort of, what do they say, every shot he's ever played is written in one of the books, right?

6:18It's almost like you're great at putting these things in that just almost give you a bit of protection Am I reading that right? Yeah, yeah, no, I would say so. I think, like I say, I'm obsessed with the numbers because I just feel like if I know where I currently am or know where I am at all times, I know I need to get better than that or what do I need to do to get better than that? And then it's like, well, how are we going to do that? And I feel like that's a combination of all the team where we think of the ideas to get better. That is why really I keep all the information and the data and look at it just because I feel like that tells me where I am at all times and tells me, okay, well, I've got this, how much to go, or I need to change this, I need to do that.

7:02Can I ask when you first wrote down those numbers? I've kept stats ever since I was on tour, like on the course of 2015, even in my amateur days before, but I don't know where they are, but 2015 to today, I've got my stats from just tournament play. but 2019 onwards is when I started recording like my practice challenges and stuff like that. So it's every shot now like gets pretty much? Pretty much, yeah. Anytime that I'm doing like a performance sort of challenge really, that's what we record. I'm not recording like every shot after I've hit a technical, you know, just a regular range shot. And how often do you go back to revisit these?

7:40We've got five years of data and as Steve, my coach says, it's like, it feels like we're just collecting data for data's sake now. whereas we need someone to go through it and see what they can find. I'll be devastated if there's nothing, but I'm convinced there's at least one thing. There's got to be one thing. What do you think it will show? Honestly, I've got no idea because I just feel like there's so many variables. There's so many variables. I mean, the one thing that I feel like I came up with the other day was noting down when I had any technical changes in my swing or anything like that, and then finding the date, seeing where I was at with my game and then look a week later, two, three, four weeks, seeing when that intervention, when it either kicked in, did it improve, did it not improve?

8:29Because I have kept notes over the last five years of what I did in my lessons with Mike. So I feel like that's another area that we can look into. I mean, it's interesting. We interviewed Matthew McConaughey, the Oscar-winning actor who has got 30 years worth of data through his diaries. And what he said he does is when things start to go wrong or awry, he goes back to the data and says, when it was going well, what was I doing? What was my sleeping? What was my diet like? Who was I hanging around with? And that allows him to see where he's maybe come off course a little bit. And I'm interested, do you think there's a killer start that when I nail that start, everything else tends to follow?

9:12I do feel like there could be, yeah. Like I say, there's so many variables that go into practice and tournament play, but everyone has a blueprint of how their game is. So, you know, my strengths are driving and putting. Other guys might be, I am playing short game. But I feel like I'm taking a guess here. If I practice and my driving's good and my putting's good, probably going to lead to good results on the course in those areas. I don't think it's quite as black and white as that, but I definitely think there's something in it. So how much do you play to your strengths and how much do you try to mitigate for your weaknesses then?

9:49Again, that's the balance that we're looking at. We have the breakdown of how much time we're spending in each area and what it is that we need to do to improve in each area. And that's the annoying thing about golf is there's just so many things to keep an eye on. So all of this is about you, right? it's about your stats, your numbers, your shots, your preparation. What room have you left for watching other people and asking questions of what others do? I really don't like to ask other golfers. I really don't. And people often have said that to me, you know, like Billy said, oh, speak to Luke Donald about his short game or speak to whoever it is about that.

10:33But they swing it differently. their feelings are different, their technique is different. I don't feel like how it can apply to me. Things like course preparation or diet or ideas on how to play the game, yes, I would get it. But anything that's like probably physical, I wouldn't want to get involved because it's like not my pattern. And I just don't, I feel really uncomfortable with that stuff because I don't feel like I want to get into bad habits from someone else. So have you gone to any, like, I don't know, I look at someone, let's take Tiger Woods as a great example, an elite golfer, decade after decade.

11:11He must have some mental advice that he can hand to other golfers. It almost feels a shame not to tap into that or Rory or something. I agree, I agree. And I think it's funny, for me personally, I think when you're actually involved in the game and you see these people, you play alongside them and you get to know them, You understand the character, you understand how they are in these moments. I feel like when you're playing in the last group, coming down the final stretch, and you see the strengths and you see the weaknesses, in my opinion, and just like they see my strengths and weaknesses as well.

11:52And I think everyone would rate themselves as better than everyone else. Golf's a very selfish individual sport, and I would say that we all put ourselves on a pedestal above everyone else. when we feel like we're playing our best, I think anyway, certainly at the top level. And I also find it a bit odd when you're trying to play against these guys and be like, oh, what do you think about this? For them to share that advice, I think is difficult, you know. I probably wouldn't dream of asking Tiger any mental advice because I'd be scared to death to ask him for one, but also I don't think he'd tell me.

12:29And I always think that. I always wonder like, are you getting the truth? Almost like they tell you. Yeah, they tell you something that's a bit nicer or simpler than actually what they're really doing. Think positive. You've won one of the most famous golf tournaments in the world. Why would you be scared to go and speak to Tiger Woods? It's Tiger Woods, isn't it? No, I could have a conversation with Tiger, but I just feel like, again, it's the same deal. You know, he's playing against, I mean, he's not playing at the minute, but he's playing against me. Why would he reveal that? like you know I people ask my advice I I'll be honest I don't tell them the truth like I well I tell them the truth but like but not the whole truth a very dumbed down yeah very very dumbed down version because I noticed when you spoke about at least you were my driver so we focused on three areas you weren't you didn't tell us what the three areas were no no no that was on purpose right well yeah yeah yeah see what I found interesting watching some of the documentaries about you though Matt is that some of the big alphas that are on on the American tour that were quite loud and brash and very domineering characters.

13:36And you were sort of the opposite of that. You were almost quite quiet, keeping your head down, just getting on with it. And I'm interested in how do you block out the noise from those dominant characters to make sure you can just focus on your game rather than being distracted? I think it's just, again, having the trust in doing what works well for me. people laugh at all the numbers and stats that I take down it's like, not in like a nasty way but it's like it's like a bit of a running joke, oh Fitz he's probably got a spreadsheet out, which always makes me laugh yeah, it always makes me laugh no not really, no no not really it always makes me laugh because to me it's like well I feel like I've got an edge over everyone because I do that and that's like my thing just like they might think something else that they do is an edge as well but i just have a real belief in the people i work with and the real belief in myself to find the answers to get better whichever way it is like i'm not worried about playing someone who's six four and hits it three forty down the middle it's like i'll beat them another way so you know when you walk into the next hole and again i'm often intrigued as take us into that conversation of when you're walking together with them.

14:55Are you talking to each other? What's the conversation like? It's polite chit chat. Is it? Yeah, it's like, oh, what's your schedule coming up? And are you going anywhere on holiday? It's just like polite chit chat. No sledging? No sledging. No, no, never. The swing looks a bit off to those guys. Yeah, exactly, exactly. There's none of that. But I mean, you know, Billy always tells me, Seve always used to say, shake hands on the tee with the guy and he'd be like, play well. and couldn't mean it less. It's like everyone always does it. They always say, oh yeah, play it well. Do we really mean it?

15:32You want to win, right? Everyone wants to beat each other, yeah. What is it that you really want and is it that you want to be the best? Is it that you want the... I guess it's no longer about the Czech. You've had a lot of those in your career and that's fantastic. So is it the silverware? What's the thing? It's the beating everyone. It is the winning. Before I won the US Open, I remember specifically Brooks Koepka winning majors and seeing him kind of do stuff in the media and various other bits and pieces. And I thought to myself a little bit, I'll be honest, I wouldn't mind a little bit of that.

16:05That's quite cool and looks enjoyable. Then I won the US Open, did the Netflix, and things have changed drastically. Go out to dinner. I've never had this in my life. Go out to dinner, people come up, oh, can I have a picture? Can you sign this? and it's never a problem, I don't mind. I've been very lucky, everyone's so polite to me and great, but it's bizarre for me. It really is bizarre, you know, never growing up with anything like that, never been in that sort of limelight and now you're halfway through your dinner and someone's coming over and it's just really, really odd. And I think it's been a little bit hard for my mum and dad because they've never experienced it too and they're getting things left, right and centre.

16:51But when we watched you on that Netflix documentary after you'd won the Open, you almost looked a little bit underwhelmed and I was reminded of when we spoke to Sir Chris Hoy and he said that winning was everything when he won the gold medal and he forgot to celebrate afterwards because that wasn't what he was focused on. It was just crossing that finish line first and that was the feelings that I got when I saw you walk into your group of family and friends. You almost looked a little bit underwhelmed by the experience. Yeah, I think, I wouldn't say I was underwhelmed, like, you know, best day of my life, you know, in my opinion, it's what I'd worked for, what I grew up trying to do, and, you know, I remember being on the green and saying to, like, my dad, like, you know, we did it, you know, and it's like, it was just, yeah, it was just an unbelievable moment for me, but, like, at the same time, what comes after it it's kind of all new and it's kind of sometimes hard to get your head around that it's like this is the new norm and you've got to accept that.

17:58You know, it can't just be like, you know, go away, leave me alone. You can't just be a recluse, you know what I mean? What did you learn in that period that would be valuable for our listeners? I think the biggest thing was time.

18:13I think I was playing so well at that period of time and the time the game felt easy and I felt like I could just recreate that and then all of a sudden it was kind of like you have a period of where you're not playing so well and it's like, well, now what? All of a sudden the bug came back and it's like, oh, I want to work hard and stuff like that. And I think it is, sometimes it is, you just got to give it some time to... Where did it go though? Have you worked out where that bug went when you were suddenly the US Open champion? Yeah, I think, you know, I think it was just that I wanted to enjoy what I'd achieved, I think, for a longer period of time than I was allowed.

18:59Yeah. Because I won, I had two weeks off and then I was playing two tournaments then three weeks off then three tournaments and like the season's still going you know the season doesn't stop for you it's like I still had to compete and there was still a lot to play for but even though there was a lot to play for it was like hard to to get up for it almost because it was like well now I've done what I needed I want to just chill How old were you at the time? 27? 27 You mentioned at the start you play a losing sport you know you've been on tour for a number of years and you've won two major competitions.

19:36It could be two or three years till you get that feeling again. So what's the motivation? What keeps you coming back for more? To win every week, yeah. I enjoy finding any way that I can get better, listening to podcasts, trying to, you know, reading books, speaking to other people in the industry, outside the industry. For me, like, it's enjoyable to try and get better. And particularly at my age, I feel like I've got still plenty of years left of my best golf and that's where I want to get to. I want to get to world number one and win more majors and I can't just coast for the next few years.

20:14I feel like I've got to excel still. Would you answer this question with total honesty, right? Bearing in mind, we've already established that you're one of the most humble guests we've ever had on the podcast, right? If 100 is the very greatest you can ever be and zero is the day you were when you first put up a golf club. Where are you? 75, probably? 80? I still feel like there's plenty in the tank. But you also got a text message, didn't you, after winning the Open from probably one of the greatest sportsmen of all time. Would you tell us who that was, but equally, did you get the chance to follow up and ask them how they'd sustained success?

20:55Yeah, the text was from Michael Jordan, which made me laugh because he actually texted me again after I won earlier this year and it was a different number and I replied oh thank you very much sorry who's this yeah yeah he's like oh sorry it's MJ I was like oh my god I feel so embarrassed you know I've not spent a lot of time with him but I'm a member of his club in Florida and the guy that coaches him a little bit he's learnt a lot off Michael and he's shared some of that with me I've not, like I say, I've not spent a lot of time with him, but his big thing was practicing with intensity. It's like every shot matters.

21:34And that's one thing that we've tried to add in to practice away from tournaments. It's hard rap tournaments because you've only really got the range. And where I'm a member, there's loads of different, you know, you can hit a shot here and then walk over there and hit a shot to a different green. and it just, we can create the intensity by having it, if you don't complete it, start again. If you don't complete it, start again. And it's things like that that I think was so big for him and that's what I've been told by the coach at the Grove, Darren May. And I think that is a fantastic lesson in that every shot has an intention and it's intense and there's a consequence for it.

22:18and I think it's hard to have that in golf because it's easy to just drag another ball out, try again. But, you know, if you've only got five shots, right, you've got five shots, you need to hit it here, the first one. If you don't, you're done, you know. And it's having those things, like a task that has a consequence. I feel like you then have that intensity and that's more like on the golf course. So one of our favorite questions we like asking guests is, if you were to divide up your golf game between physical, so like the technical stuff that you've just described, and the mental side of it, what proportionality would you offer to each?

22:57Everyone's like, oh, golf's 99 % mental. I would say like 70 % physical, 30 % mental. It doesn't matter how good you are mentally if you can't hit the ball straight, you know, it doesn't matter. But in those final moments coming down the last five, six holes when the pressure's on, you need to be strong mentally not to kind of just wilt. Before we move to our quickfire questions, I'd like to finish there about mental strength in the moment that matters because there's one thing that you can't recreate anywhere and that is the pressure of winning a tournament with a shot, right? And I appreciate, again, you don't want to reveal everything, but I would love it if you would share with us what you were going through mentally when you played those final few shots to win the US Open?

23:48Yeah, I think during that time, once I got to about 14, I obviously knew I was back in it. 15, made a birdie. It was one clear with two to play. And I remember thinking to myself, you know, I was playing really, really well. It was the best I've ever played. There's no doubt about that. under the circumstances, and I was just hitting it exactly where I wanted. Everything about it was just perfect, really. But I didn't feel nervous. The US Open, I probably wasn't really expected to win. I'd obviously played well and had success at that course before, but I still feel like that Wills Altouros is American.

24:34It's an American crowd. It's kind of like I was almost a bit the underdog, and I was just so focused and committed on how well I was playing. I just think it just felt as cliche as it is, like I was just in the zone. And I think I look back to that a lot and compare it to some of my poorer rounds. And every single shot that we had, I go through the round, I've been through the round multiple, multiple times. Every single one was like 100 % commitment. There was doubt on one shot, and that was the 10th hole, and I hit a really poor shot. Outside of that, there was no doubt on any single shot I hit all day.

25:12And I think back to, it's very rare, I feel like you get rounds that happen like that because they would, you know, we'd have a yardage, oh, it's this club, it's perfect. And it's just like, bang. I think that was the big difference that day. And coming down the final stretch, it was like, oh, I just go, bang. It was just very like, see it, do it. And did you allow your brain to go to the young Matt, be driven course to course with his dad? Yes, yes, 100%, yeah. the night before I remember speaking to Mike and I was like I almost, I was in contention at the USPGA earlier in the year in May and I remember just going to bed thinking oh you know, I could win the USPGA tomorrow like a major championship, it was huge and I just didn't play very well and I was playing at 100 miles an hour and I look back I was playing too fast and all that and then I called Mike Saturday night before US Open final, her final round and he was basically saying to me, you've just got to accept that you think you can win.

26:15That was great. That was absolutely fantastic. It was never like, oh, but what if I have a bad round? And it was the other way around. I was almost getting too like, I can win. I can totally win this. You've got to accept it, but then you've just got to go out there and just play your game and see what happens. And that's what I felt like I did very, very well. and when you visualise a shot do you see it as almost like watching it on a screen so it's external to you or do you see it from your own perspective no I mean I see it I see it like I just visualise the ball kind of going up as if it's like on a Playstation game you know I just like with a trail behind you know like you see on the TV that's how I see it going up and yeah so on that last shot what was that like yeah I mean on the last shot it was out the bunker and and i've told the story a lot but i was terrible out the fairway bunkers all year and that was the shot that i had and i hit this shot and i just never forget because where we were aiming was like well away from where the ball actually ended up and i tried to hit the shot where i was where i was aiming and i just remember looking up and it was like going towards the flag and i was just like oh my god this is like thank god like having such a good shot there and i kind of played it so quick almost to be like well i'm ready let's just you know just get on with it rather than kind of like oh but what if this and what if that and again it goes back to the commitment it's like bang bang bang and it was and it was obviously great obviously uh we've reached the point of our quick fire questions matt

28:00The first one is, what are the three non-negotiable behaviors that you and the people around you should buy into? Work hard, be humble, down to earth, and be honest. I don't want anyone beating around the bush or just being a yes person, really. What advice would you give to a teenage, Matt? Yeah, just work hard, work smart. I think that work hard has always been a big thing for me. I've always wanted to make sure that I'm working hard, but I think working smart is actually what I've learned more now. Don't necessarily need to hit 500 balls a day. It might be 200, but with much better intensity, you're probably going to get more out of it.

28:44So probably, yeah, work smart. Would you recommend a book or a podcast or something that you love listening to that helps you? Obviously, love listening to you boys. The High Performance Podcast is great. but for me the chimp paradox by Steve Peters that was like I say I'm a C minor student according to my coach but I think it just is very good at simplifying how the mind works What's the best piece of advice you've ever received and why? I'd probably just say my parents just telling me to work hard when I was younger never been pushy about it just like If you do want to get anywhere, you've got to work for it.

29:30You can't just turn up and hope for the best. I would probably say that. What's your biggest strength and your greatest weakness? Biggest strength, I think, is always trying to pursue greatness and trying to get better. Just every day I'm probably thinking about something to try and help me. How can I recover better, play better, think better, anything really. I think that's like my biggest strength is like my drive. I think my biggest weakness is probably I get in my own way, particularly on the golf course from maybe a mental side, you know, getting too worked up about I'm not playing well, even off the golf course, you know, if I've not had a good week or whatever or I've not practiced well.

30:15Yeah, I think sometimes I can get in my own way. And finally, your one golden rule for people that have listened to this podcast about living a high performance life. Yeah, I've said it a lot already, but it would be working hard or working smart. I just think if you don't push yourself to try and get better, I don't think you're ever going to get to where you want. So I would have to say that. Thanks for listening to this episode of High Performance with the brilliant Matt Fitzpatrick. You know, I think his story has proved that success doesn't have to look like anyone else's. It's just your own relentless focus, smart preparation and total belief in your path.

30:56If you enjoyed the conversation, please share it with someone who's chasing their own version of high performance. And remember, early access you can find right now on the High Performance app and get the episodes before anyone else. See you next time. Well done, Europe!

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