Ollie Bearman: The Untold Story of F1’s Next Star (E282)

0:28Watch it early on the High Performance App. my face on his face, a thousand words. At times I was questioning how much I wanted this, you know, how much sacrifice is necessary. Am I prepared to keep doing this? But, you know, at the end, it's all worth it and I wouldn't change a thing. That is the latest driver to join the Formula One grid, Oli Behrman, who will drive for Haas from the start of 2025. And this is High Performance, the show that unlocks the minds of the most fascinating people on the planet. I'm Jake Humphrey, and on this show we learn from the stories, struggles and successes of our guests, allowing us all to find our own version of high performance.

1:08And okay, Oli may not yet have been crowned a Formula One world champion, but his story to get into the sport is nothing short of remarkable. And he's about to break down for you how he ended up racing for Ferrari in incredible detail, but also explains to us his motivation, his personal struggles over the years and why at 19 he truly believes one day he will be a world champion. I really hope you enjoy this conversation. You know, I hosted Formula One for four years for the BBC here in the UK and I have met pretty much every driver on the grid. I've spent lots of time around Formula One and even I was blown away by the maturity that Oli showed.

1:43He's 19 years of age. He turned up looking really smart in a suit. He was considered in his answers. He was thoughtful. I've really really enjoyed speaking to someone who has worked so hard to get to the point he's at but also knows that his journey is right at the very start. It was a true true pleasure for me so let's get to it.

2:05Welcome to the show how's it going? Good it's nice to be here this is one of the few podcasts that I've actually listened to in my life because it's not really something I do often but I find a lot of interest in this podcast you speak to a lot of interesting athletes and successful people and you know especially the ones you did with Fernando with Toto with Gunter I really learned a lot from them so it's nice to be on here myself. It's nice to have you yeah look we've got a good Formula One heritage I guess on high performance and I suppose it's easy for people to talk about achieving great things winning world titles winning championships that is high performance but i think the reason why i was so keen to talk to you is that what you went through in saudi arabia and now officially a formula one driver at 19 years of age is in my mind high performance and i think it's people like you that inspire the next generation to really follow their dreams and that in itself is something special so when i ask you the question what is high performance what what do you think of for me high performance in the in the field that we're in um in in racing it's about making decisions quickly the correct decisions quickly we have to make a lot of these split second decisions about overtaking tire strategy race strategy and making the right one um is is you know high performance and and i think that's what separates the talented drivers from the successful drivers.

3:36So what would you share with people then about how you make really quick decisions and trust in your decision? I think a lot of it comes from experience because when I was at the beginning of my career in F4 and in Formula 3, I did find myself making the wrong ones pretty often. So it's definitely a thing of experience, but trusting your gut is something that I tend to go with. You have to be really, really sure with your decision and that's something that I've improved with experience. But, you know, you see the more experienced guys in F1, they tend to be, you know, getting it right more often than not.

4:10Yeah. I love how you talk about experience at 19 years of age. But the truth is you have because you've been, you know, you've been racing for a long time. And finally, it has happened. You are officially a Formula One driver. You're going to be racing for Haas from the start of the 2025 season. So when I say you've made it, you have a seat at the top table. How do you feel? Yeah, you know, it's been a long time coming and for any team to put their trust in you, it's a proud feeling, especially in my position being a rookie with the climate of F1 at the moment. You know, this year we don't have any rookies in the championship and for them to have that trust in me, I have to first of all thank them massively because it can't be easy.

4:51It's a bit of a dive into the unknown for Io and Jean. So, you know, the fact that they gave me their trust, it gives me a lot of confidence because they've seen something clearly. And I hope that I can continue to show that. And, you know, it's been a bit of a long journey now with Haas because I first met them in Qatar last year. I had two free practices in Mexico. I had the post-season young driver test in Abu Dhabi. And, you know, now we're continuing our journey into 2025 and beyond. So I've just been amazed by the atmosphere within the team, how easily they brought me in. I've really loved every moment and I hope that it's a great relationship together.

5:37I love that. And look, Gene Haas is like one of the legendary, legendary figures of global motorsport. Have you ever had a chance to chat to him on the phone or in person? How's he been? So I met him for the first time in Austria and we had about an hour conversation just talking about motorsport and the technical side of things, which he loves. And I love that because he was actually, I mean, he has a lot more knowledge than me on that side of things. And it's great to see how much passion he has as well. Did he give you a bit of advice? He, of course, gave me the standard advice, which is, you know, build it up.

6:11Don't put it in the wall. Don't put it in the wall, of course. but you know I think we have the same goal together we have great really high ambitions both me and the team so I'm really excited to start the partnership together right and look you know both of us have seen cultures in Formula One teams over the years that haven't been great for young drivers you know the pressure has just simply been too much for them to excel how would you how would you describe the culture in that team because they need to push you as hard as they physically can but also make you feel protected and looked after in your rookie season Yeah, they need to push me, but also by the same token, like I said, I kind of push myself a lot.

6:50On the other side, I feel like I know all of the people, the mechanics, the staff on a personal level a bit more, having spent so many races with them now. And I feel like, you know, it's not just a professional relationship, but also a bit more personal, which is really important. And, you know, if I just turned up for the pre-season test in Bahrain next year, it wouldn't be like that. So I'm glad that I've built up a bit of a rapport with these guys. And, you know, the people that I will be working with have a lot of experience within F1 and they can impart a lot of knowledge onto me. So I find that really useful.

7:24And, you know, Io, the new team principal, he's had a great effect on Haas and they're in a great point at the moment. You know, they're scoring points on regular occasions. So they're in a great spot and I can't wait to continue that with them.

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9:27I wonder what, I've got some photos here actually, and I wonder what this kid would make of it. So you started racing at six, right? Yeah. How old are you in this photo? with trophies already by the way this um this was around 2015 so this was around yeah nine or ten years old so a few years into the journey um i remember that race it was a bugmore park was it which is one of the famous karting tracks exactly one of my locals it's my closest track so um yeah i always seem to get on well there and i was a little eight year old um you know looking at these big kids and i was starting p6 in in this race as a novice against the you know the british championship drivers and talking to baby faces that one's purely just to embarrass you you're probably about two years or three years old i don't know how old you are there yeah i don't know either but that's a that's a cute photo was this kid dreaming of formula one um this kid had a lot of model cars this kid could tell you every single car that drove past him on the road so he was definitely a petrol head um yeah i i do remember watching all the f1 races and of course dreaming to be there and it's it's a very proud moment that i finally get to say that i'll be one of those 20.

10:32So let's let's break down for people who see Formula One as this kind of mysterious world where they don't really know what goes on right. How and when did the moment come where you actually knew that you were going to be a Formula One driver? I mean I knew that it was in the realms of being a possibility when I joined the Ferrari Driver Academy. That gave me a clear path to the top. When was that? So that was at the end of 2021. So yeah we got the call from Ferrari. Actually I I had COVID at the time when they called me, so I was at a really low point. And that was a nice news that they were interested in.

11:10And they invited me to come to Italy, to Maranello, to have an assessment. And yeah, we decided pretty quickly that we should work together and start something. And after that, I went into F3. And having an academy behind me, Ferrari as well, you know it's a it's giving a clear path to the top um until i joined an academy it was a dream um and then once i did so it was a dream with a bit of backing with a bit of um yeah reality sprinkled in there as well so that was when it became a possibility of course until you get in an f1 car and perform it's never um you're never sure um but i knew after my first test which went pretty well in in fiorana um i knew that the the car suited me and that i had a good performance um i did some free practices at the back end of last year which which went well um so that's that was where it became you know close and and jedder of course happening should we talk then about jedder and uh and that weekend let's rewind the clock to the moment where it's feeling like a normal weekend for you.

12:26So you race in Formula 2, which is, you know, the big support race for Formula 1. So you follow a lot of the Formula 1 races. But the two are quite separate. You know, Formula 1 happens in one part of the circuit with their own paddock and their own media areas. You're in another part of the paddock. When did you first get this inkling that something was going on and it might impact your race weekend? Yeah, so just for a bit of backstory, we came off the back of a really difficult weekend in Bahrain in Formula 2. And we turned up in Jeddah with really mixed expectations. We really struggled in Bahrain, honestly, zero points as a team and really struggling for pace.

13:02We turned up in Jeddah and I put the car on pole in qualifying. So that was just a great feeling for the whole team. We'd been really struggling and that felt like such a necessary result. So the weekend started well, but even before that, I knew that Carlos was not feeling great, but I continued focusing on Formula 2 and watching FP like I normally would. I spoke briefly with his trainer because he was my trainer last year. And yeah, more out of care for Carlos because, you know, Jetta is a really difficult track and very physical on the body. and yeah it came about i i forget which day because this was a strange weekend because everything was moved so it was qualifying day sitting with chris and and the rest of my um little personal team and i saw the the call on chris's phone from fred vasur and normally i mean on a race weekend it doesn't really spell good news when when fred calls i I mean, I knew he wasn't going to call me to say good luck for the race.

14:15And yeah, I could see Chris's face when he picked up the phone. And it was a bit, yeah, it was a specific facial expression. What are you thinking then at that point? I put two and two together. I knew that Carlos wasn't feeling great. And I could feel, yeah, a bit of excitement. Chris's phone actually wasn't working correctly. So I called Fred afterwards and he broke the news to me. And I think I panicked a bit because he was telling me to calm down and just to head to the track and we can start. I don't remember it specifically because honestly the whole 48 hours was such a blur. But it was words to the effect of you're going to be racing for Ferrari this weekend.

15:00You're going to sub in for Carlos. You know what, Larry? Just to stop you. Sorry. When's my goal is you're going to be racing for us this weekend? That's one thing. When? You're going to be racing for Ferrari this weekend. I mean, Lewis Hamilton has spent his entire career waiting for the moment to get into that red car. It's like the most famous car on the grid. And suddenly you've gone from Oli Behrman, who's having his lunch thinking about an F2 race, to suddenly you're driving for Ferrari. I mean, man, you must have almost fell off your chair. It was crazy. And I think he could tell the panic in my voice and how crazy I went.

15:33I looked across with my dad and I think he knew from my face as well. we got straight in the car and you know I was so nervous but yeah I headed into the paddock and you know the news hadn't broke yet I was walking in standard you know no one took any notice of me I was just an F2 driver going in for lunch or something with Ferrari I remember I sat down with Fred in his office and you know he gave me the lowdown the debrief or the pre-brief should I say and what did he tell you at that point that he thought was important for you to know just to manage my expectations to make me understand that he wasn't expecting fantastic things and I think that's the kind of the gist I got from everyone who I spoke to within Ferrari they wanted to make sure that I built everything up step by step didn't try to be a hero because I think in those situations you can sometimes do yourself a bit more harm than you can good if I went out there in free practice or qualifying and it's like the car on the wall it wouldn't have been a good look but when you're getting a when you're getting told don't crash it's also you know yeah it puts one thing in your head i wasn't thinking about crashing until they say it so it's uh it's a tough thing but um you know it went well in the end and i i did exactly what they said i built it up and as much as they told me they weren't expecting anything i knew that everyone was watching and I knew that this could be a really important 48 hours in my career.

17:04So you've had the call, you've gone and met with Fred, obviously then it's sitting in a Ferrari for the first time over a race weekend and I think it's really important we have to explain to people that this is Carlos Sainz's car, it's set up for Carlos, it's designed for Carlos, it's even got Carlos's number and name on the side of it. So can you explain for those that aren't too familiar with Formula 1, what are the changes that have to happen to that car for it to be set up for you pretty quickly? Yeah, so of course, the first thing is the seat. I had a seat ready because I'd already done some testing with the 2022 car, which has the same, you know, kind of outline and everything.

17:43So my seat was ready and my seat came to every race, you know, since I'm doing the reserve role. So luckily there was no, you know, bodge jobs required there. I already had something that fit me more or less well. Pedals, of course, I'm not the same height as Carlos and that needed moving. Steering wheel, I requested that it was changed just because I tend to use Charles's on the sim. That's not because I prefer it, but just because the first time I used the sim, I used Charles's and I just got used to using that. So yeah, a few button differences and a few different placement of things. and I found myself a lot of times changing the brake balance instead of opening the DRS because those buttons are swapped compared to Charles' steering gear.

18:31And that's it really. I jumped in the car, I had to do the jump out test for the FIA. What's that? That's basically that you can get out the car, put the steering wheel back on, which I'm not sure why because I think in a situation I wouldn't be putting the steering wheel back on. But yeah, they need to make sure that you can get out the car safely in a specific required time but I remember that there was 50 cameras outside you know shooting me doing that and I was so nervous to to fail that because you know you get one shot and that's it yeah I looked out the window before I walked out and that was just a crowd of cameras and that was when I realized this is real um this is happening and this is your chance that's when it that's when it became a reality I think.

19:20Could you explain how you dealt with that mentally to suddenly see not just the pressure of driving a car you know you're a racing driver that's kind of what you've prepared yourself to do all your life but what you haven't prepared yourself to do is to have a hundred photographers and a million tv cameras and microphones and everything else that comes with it so what did you go through to settle that part of it? Yeah you know F1 is massively more in terms of media attention and everything like that. Formula 2 you're not really watched that closely by the media and when you get to F1 that's something that is exponentially bigger and I found that out in Jeddah.

20:01You know there's nothing going on in Formula 2 you can you know there's not much going on compared to getting into F1 and seeing this amount of cameras I was quite shocked, honestly, and it was a bit tough. I think the positive part was that I was told only hours before it happened. I didn't have time to overthink it and, you know, get nervous because I was straight to work. I was, you know, catching up on what I missed out in the first three practice sessions. I was learning procedures about the car, which I didn't know yet. so that helped me to kind of keep my mind occupied and not focusing on the the pressure and the attention and everything like that but I do remember trying to sleep before race day it took a bit longer than normal I bet it did before we get to race day we'll talk about you know qualifying and free practice so you had one hour behind the wheel of that car to prepare for a qualifying session would you give us an insight into the kind of the mental overwhelm if you like because there's a there's actually a million things in that formula one car that you've never experienced right yeah exactly you know that they're much more complex than what i'm used to in formula two and despite the fact that i've done quite a lot of hours in the simulator which definitely prepared me as well as possible doing it in a race situation or doing it when you're physically on track and the stakes are a bit high you know with with you make a mistake in the simulator you reset and you go again you don't quite have that luxury on track so So, yeah, there was a lot going on.

21:30And that free practice session, I had to learn everything preparing for quali in one hour. And just to put it into perspective, my first push lap of that session was 14 seconds faster than my pole position in F2 the day before. So everything comes at you a lot quicker. And how did that feel physically to be 14 seconds quicker than the best time you could do in the car you're used to driving? It's something quite special. I knew after a few laps in free practice that it was going to be a physical race, physical qualifying and a physical race, because Jetta is one of the most physical tracks on the calendar.

22:10And yeah, I knew that I would struggle after one or two laps in FP3. With what? The neck, but even the legs moving around. You have to be really strong with the core, with the back. But aside from the physical aspect, the speed at which you arrive at the corners, it's every corner is 20-30 kph faster and you know the apex speed is also that delta higher as well so it's something to get used to um just how sharp and pointy the car is because of the the extra downforce um that was something that that impressed me um and you know after a few laps i i realized that it's going to be difficult to get the confidence to push this thing to the limit um because pushing the f1 car to the limit especially in a track like jedda I feel like it's all in the mind.

22:57It's how much risk you're prepared to take. It's how much you're willing to put on the line in a track like Jetta especially. So that was what I had to come to terms with and what I had to try and get comfortable with in one hour. Because I remember watching qualifying and there was a couple of moments where I thought this guy was going to end up at the wall. Did you fear that at the moment? I hit the wall three times in qualifying and after the second time I was like okay, let's calm it down a bit. But on the other hand, you know, that's the precision you need in F1. You can't leave anything on the table.

23:29And, you know, even looking back, I did leave too much on the table because I missed out on Q3 by that little chunk. So that's why I felt like it was a messy session because of these little moments, but also in search of the limit, you have to have these little moments of going over the limit to find actually where the limit is. So it's a tough compromise. So I love the fact that you got out of the car and said it was messy because I think it it kind of showed in many ways to Ferrari and the rest of the paddock that you weren't there just for a good time right you were there as a serious racing driver that wanted to be the best that you could be do you really now on reflection think that you did anything other than an incredible job in in that qualifying session I mean I look at a specific moment which was my penultimate lap in Q2 where I made a mistake I ran a bit wide and lost a decent chunk of time on the exit all the way down the straight.

24:22And that was ultimately what didn't get me through into Q3. And I really would have liked to keep doing laps because, you know, with more, I mean, every lap I was doing at that stage, I was almost doubling my experience. So I knew that if I got to Q3, I would have been able to clean up my lap a bit and tidy everything up. And I think that if it wasn't a messy session, I wouldn't have been on the limit, you know, because I had to explore the limits and make a few mistakes to get everything out of it. But yeah, on reflection, I just have that moment where I ran wide. I threw a load of sparks out the back and that was ultimately why I didn't get into Q3.

25:01That's the only thing, but I'm not that hard on myself anymore. In the heat of the moment, I, of course, was a bit disappointed. But now looking back, I'm not too sad. But I think if I got into Q3, I think I could have done a decent job. Because like I said, I was gaining experience lap by lap. So yeah, hopefully I have another chance of doing that one day. One day. I'm always interested when you get these big moments in life, right? Who's kind to you? Like who puts their arm around you? So let's talk about Fred Vasseur first. What was he like with you? He's the team boss, right, at Ferrari. How did he approach you after that qualifying session?

25:37I mean, Fred was, first of all, he's been through it all, right? He's been with the junior drivers in F3 and F2. So I think that was mainly the reason that he called on me in the first place, because he appreciates the talent in F2, which maybe some other top guys don't. And yeah, I do remember after Corley, he said that I had a few touches with the wool and he was like, no more of those. But Fred guided me through really well and he kept me grounded. and, you know, made me refocus on taking things step by step. I remember every time I got into the car, each session he was the first one on the radio telling me to take it easy and build it up.

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28:32people might not know that the nickname of formula one for those inside it is the piranha club right because people can attack each other at any given moment what was what was charles leclerc like with you he was super helpful um i think he understood the difficulty of the position i was in and he was helping me through the sessions especially before qualifying um and you know even i think he could tell i was a little bit nervous and and so the first time that you see him after you've had the news and he's obviously been given the news as well what did he come over and say i struggle to remember first of all i think he said congratulations and of course happy for me but i the the thing i remember that that he helped me with was before the race we sat down with him and also Fred and he was helping me a little bit because I hadn't done any long runs so I hadn't done more than like two pushes in a row before doing the race.

29:28So, you know, it's a bit of a different scenario driving in the race versus the qualifying and he gave me a bit of insight about, you know, the Thai behaviour and stuff like that, stuff that I hadn't experienced yet and, you know, it's a little detail but it's super helpful and it's something that I didn't get to experience in my one free practice session. So, you know, these small little tips and insights were priceless for me in the situation I was in. I've always really been a big fan of Charles. I mean, I was teammates with Arthur, his brother in F3. And, you know, naturally we were all supporting Charles in that year.

30:07And, yeah, he's been performing really, really well. And that weekend, I mean, I knew him a little bit before. we'd met a few times but that weekend I really kind of saw what type of a person he was. I gained a lot of respect for him because you know there was no obligation to do something like this and yeah I really appreciated it and it seemed like a little little you know word here and there for him but for me it meant a lot and I really appreciated it. Nice and what about Carlos Sainz because obviously he's got other things on his mind he's the reason why he's not racing is because he's having appendix operation, right?

30:44Yeah. Yeah. I mean, first of all, I have to say that it wasn't the circumstances that I wanted to make my F1 debut. And yeah, I know Carlos would have preferred to be on track himself. But when an opportunity like this comes, you have to be ready. And I was. Carlos was there on race day in the garage, standing with the engineers. And actually, I spoke to him after the race in and he was saying a few things that the engineers wanted to say to me. He was telling them not to because it would have been a bit of an overload of info. But also during the race, he was seeing some things that were happening, looking at my driving and giving some pointers, what to change on my driving and what to change on the car setup itself.

31:30So he was watching the race, and then what he was telling the engineers to give you that advice, or he was coming on the radio? He was telling them what to tell me, basically. So, yeah, that was pretty nice. and you know he's been in that situation and he knows what what the driver wants so i found that really useful and what did he say to you before before the race started he first of all he he sent me a message after the qualifying to say first of all it's a tough track and and good job because um it's a bit of a headache in in qualifying specifically with with the tires in in jeta it's it's quite tough to have them ready for the whole lap and and prepare them and that's something I missed out on as well.

32:06And, you know, I wished him the best for his surgery. And yeah, it was great to see that he came back to the circuit the next day. So you're sitting on the grid, 11th place in Jeddah as a Ferrari Formula One driver. What's going through your mind at that moment when you're waiting for the lights to go out? My first, because prior to the race start, I think I'd done about three practice starts. and the start procedure in F1 is quite specific and it's tailored to each driver. And yeah, I remember before the race, I was practicing a few of them in the car and on the way to the grid, you have to do some burnouts to get the tyres into a specific window, which the team advises you on.

32:50But then you have to change a few modes, maybe perform a bite point find on the clutch. So it's a few procedures, which are quite simple in the end, but in the heat of the moment, the first time doing it in real life. It was quite stressful. But the difficult thing is that you have to manage the clutch with your hand. It's a hand clutch and you have to manage the position yourself and also the throttle at the same time. And just getting that clutch drop correct and consistent is what you need to do. And that's something I couldn't do before the race. I was practicing this clutch drop, which is something that, you know, like I said, is specific to each driver.

33:28and I just couldn't get it the same. My spread of clutch drop was between 20 % and 60%. And 60 % you don't really jump off the line and you get a slow start and 20 % you go into anti-stall and you don't get off the line at all. So I was literally just hoping that I could get that car off the line. It wasn't a given. So when I dropped the clutch and the car moved at a decent speed relative to the others, I let out a little victory relief and then I could get on with the race. That was my most nervous moment, honestly, getting off the line. I love that story. But then, of course, along comes the physicality of a Formula One race.

34:12Would you mind for people explaining the physical demands on the body of doing what you did in Jeddah? I think there's a lot of aspects. The first is the heat. In a truck, in a country like Saudi, it was like 30 degrees at night and you're wearing two or three layers of fireproof clothing you're strapped into a car with a engine behind you with radiators on the side with electronics boxes inside and you know it can be 50 i don't know 50 55 degrees inside that cockpit and you don't get a whole great deal of fresh air so it's pretty hot first of all and it does get difficult to remain focused and correct through the whole race you know it's by far the longest race i've ever done.

34:56I'm used to doing 50 minutes, one hour races. And this one was almost an hour and 45 minutes. So, you know, it's getting up to double the race length that I'm used to. And I do remember at some points, you know, looking at the lap count, and there was still 20, 25 laps to go. And I was thinking, oh, my goodness, am I going to make it to the end? Because, yeah, like I said, the heat aspect, but I mean, my neck was destroyed, completely destroyed. Like I said, I knew after free practice that it was going to be a long, long race. And it's just the capacity of the car, the downforce, the capacity of what it can do in braking in high speed corners is impressive.

35:35It really rearranges your stomach. It's something quite crazy, especially in Jeddah with the amount of grip there and the amount of high speed corners. And even the straights, they curve slightly and it doesn't seem like much. But after 30 laps of doing it um even those little corners you're still tensing your neck you know there's no rest there's a lovely moment as well where you had a couple of british drivers behind you landon norris and lewis hamilton i wondered how that moment would have been for you i mean being being chased down by those two is special but i guess lewis hamilton is a hero of yours right yeah you know i was i was growing up in the era when he was with mclaren um 2011 12 13 that's when And I remember him, the beautiful Crow McLaren.

36:20And, you know, him and Jenson were the home heroes. And I was great supporters of both of them. I remember actually going to Silverstone, I think it was either 2014 or 2015, when it rained at the end. And I'm pretty sure Lewis won. And that was my first experience of watching a race in real life. But anyway, you know, being on track with them, first of all, was quite an honor. but it just so happened that you know with 10 or so laps to go the gap was was dropping by about a second a lap and then it got to about stalemate with five or so seconds um between us and you know with five laps to go I realized actually I could stay in front of these two um so I started pushing on and and on and on and yeah when the flag came the gap was still the same um so that was quite a proud moment so nice did Lewis have some words for you afterwards yeah I mean he was the first one to like see me after the race he you know shook my hand and congratulated me um and of course that was a very special moment you know having watched this guy who's been racing in f1 since i was born um and to finally share the track with him um actually i received a video message from him in in like 2016 i just won the british karting championship and and i think you know through a friend he he'd send me a message and and say congratulations um and you know keep pushing and stuff like this.

37:41And I only received that, I only like re-received that recently. But, you know, it just shows that I was looking up to these guys and now one day, you know, in the future, I will share the track with them. It's an honor. So you told the world's media you were destroyed at the end of the race. I'd love to know about the pride that you felt. When did you take a moment to really work out what had happened to you? To really process what you'd been through over those 48 hours where you didn't have time to stop and take a breath? I didn't feel much emotion. I was, you know, it's a bit hard, but after the race, I just finished P7, but, you know, my teammate was on the podium, and I knew that the car was good for much more, so I wasn't super, super pleased.

38:26Of course, I was happy that I finished the race with no incident, but I knew that I could have done a bit better with a better qualifying, etc., etc. But then I saw my father and that puts it into perspective. I saw the emotion in his eyes. This has been a journey that we've been on together since the beginning. I remember the early days when we would wake up at 5, 6am and go to Rye House. those freezing cold winter months when I was coming crying because my hands were so cold and you know just all those moments come flashing back and that was when I really you know appreciated the gravity of the situation another moment was after the race we'd done all the debrief and everything by the time we'd finished it was gone midnight and I got back to the hotel which was the F2 hotel that I was staying in.

39:17I was an F2 driver that weekend. And my engineer in F2, Carlo, had stayed up and waited for me. And we met in the lobby and even the whole of the Prima team actually. And yeah, just the hug he gave me, that really brought a tear to my eye. It was great to see his support because he's been in this journey for a long time as well. So So it's very special to share these memories with people. I think that's a really important aspect, is remembering all of the sacrifice of other people, not just your own. It's such a team game. You see, first of all, going into Maranello and seeing the hard work that goes in behind the scenes and coming back after the race, seeing the joy on people's faces and knowing that I gave them someone to cheer for because I think, you know, I had a lot of fans that day.

40:13But like you said, you know, I've been sharing this journey with my family. There's been so many sacrifices we've had to make to get here. And yeah, seeing my father, unfortunately, my mom couldn't make it. But I'm sure she was quite happy as well. But even in the background, there's so many people that have helped me along the way. From day one in karting, you know, the guy who was coaching me in the beginning to my mechanic in cadet karting. I mean, I couldn't count how many people have helped me get here. And, you know, it's a satisfaction for me that, you know, I've been with them and we've kind of achieved this together because it's, you know, it's not just for me.

40:55It's for everyone that I've ever worked with and will continue to work with because it's such a team game. Tell us about the role that your dad played. My dad, first of all, has been probably one of my biggest inspirations in life. You know, he's built his own business and he's been doing his own journey. I think I can draw a lot of parallels between business and racing. His work ethic, his hunger, his drive is something that's really rubbed off on me. And I think that's stood me in good stead, not only for life, but also for motorsport. and you know seeing how hard he's had to work to to make this a reality it's such a difficult sport to to get to the top you know outside of f1 there's so much finance required um a lot of long hours and stuff that that my dad has had to work um and yeah it all made it worth it seeing him after the race and seeing how much it meant to him because it was also his dream you know as a kid he had a go-kart he had dreams of making it to f1 and for whatever reason you know financially it wasn't possible so the fact that he was able to live the dream through me it's it's very proud it makes me happy think back to the advice your dad's given you i wonder whether it's things he said or whether it's you viewing his behavior that's been the most influential in your life I think it's his actions and his hard work.

42:27He doesn't ever stop working. There's no business hours for him. It's nonstop. And that's something that the commitment and the drive that he has is something that's rubbed off. in the early days when you know he he had racing experience and you know he he definitely helped me in in the early days when I needed it as much as I hated to hear advice from my father you know everyone does but but he really guided me through yeah the early days nowadays he he leaves me be and and he's more there for the experience and and hopefully he loves it as much as I do and what did he say to you after the race?

43:09I just hugged him and I don't think there were any words there weren't any words needed you could see it on my face, on his face, a thousand words And you spoke about the sacrifice that you've had to make tell us more about that, what have been those sacrifices? what have you missed out on? I mean, in the early days it's little things like missing out on time with your friends on the weekends and you know it was non-stop for me in the beginning in karting in in the uk we we were doing 40 45 race weekends a year that's not a lot of downtime so um it was a lot of late nights getting back from scotland from cambria you know that there were very long trips for us to do and i would be heading into school the next day on on very low sleep um and you know these are little sacrifices because you know three or four years ago when i when i started to race abroad i left my home i left my family i left my friends and i pretty much started fresh um and then i moved to italy with ferrari and started fresh again and in the beginning it was really difficult you know i had no one out there um i had all of my friends all of my family back in the uk i missed them very much and at times I was questioning how much I wanted this you know how much sacrifices is necessary am I prepared to keep doing this but you know at the end it's all worth it and I wouldn't change a thing people often talk about this there's a there's a moment of loneliness where you've had to make all the sacrifices right you've had to do the things that nobody else has done but there's also not the rewards yet so you don't have all the trappings of success because you haven't got that far, but you've had to make the sacrifice to try and get there.

44:56Exactly. There's no, at some stages, there wasn't any light at the end of the tunnel, you know, and that's difficult to stay motivated and driven when you don't really see an end goal. And I remember some points where, you know, loneliness is a real thing in top level sport. We have such busy schedules that, you know, people can't be with us all the time. And I haven't seen my friends from the UK from school for years, but the light is there at the end of the tunnel it's much easier um and i thank my younger self for sticking with it take us to one of those days when it was when it felt a bit dark when it was a bit difficult when you were questioning things what kept you going i think the drive and passion for the sport it's the easy answer um but sometimes you even lose that and i remember points where i wasn't loving what i was doing and and that's a really difficult feeling was this um This was coming at some stage at the start of F2 last year.

45:54I was having a bit of a tough time of it. Nothing seemed to go to plan and the results weren't coming. The hard work was there but nothing was panning out. I think at times I re-found my passion for racing, doing things like karting. I remember one karting day I did at the start of last year. and it reminded me why I started and why I fell in love with this thing in the first place. And that kind of reignited a great passion and I don't think I'll ever lose it again because, yeah, in any dark time, I'm reminded of why I started. And now I have F1 on the horizon. I'm just super excited. Are you talking about self-doubt?

46:42Because I think the challenge that you have in your world is it's all about a stopwatch, right? the stopwatch does not lie. There's no hiding behind it. Yeah, I mean, there have been moments when I've doubted myself, like I said, at the start of F2 last year, because honestly, there were four or five races, which, you know, is two or three months of no results and relentless hard work with nothing to show for it. And that's really painful. I feel like the self-doubt goes away when the results come because you're always questioning whether you're good enough um whether you have what it takes and just by proving it once you kind of lose that um do i have what it takes to perform in this level um and i think i even had that before jeda um naturally and yeah once you do a performance that the counts um i think those those question marks start to go away and I fully expect that it will come back for the first round in Australia next year but you know there's been a few occasions where I've had it so hopefully I'll deal with it a bit better

47:58What advice would you give to people for whom self-doubt or imposter syndrome we sometimes refer to it as for whom it's actually pretty crippling what are the processes that you go through? Whenever I have those those moments of doubt i look back at specific performances that i've done jeda is an example baku last year is an example and you know i i did it and i have what it takes um i just need to perform at the level which i which i can um and it's about extracting that from yourself because that's sometimes what i struggle with getting the best out of myself and performing because on my day i feel like i can i can fight with anyone and what advice would you give people on how to deal with failure because if there's one thing that Formula One drivers or any racing driver has to do it's they have to get used to making mistakes that cost a lot of money and sometimes an entire team's week of work or month of work can be gone in the blink of an eye.

48:52Yeah, I mean I haven't really had to deal with it yet because Formula One is a whole new world in terms of that but also I'm not too scared to go into F1 and be inch perfect because I'm young, I'm a rookie, I need to find the limit and make mistakes. It's a game of trial and error. So I don't have a fear of failure because I think it's the best way of learning. But I think the important thing is that you learn from your mistakes and that you don't repeat them. That's the main goal and the main advice. And how much does it play on your mind that you see other drivers that have been given so little time when it comes to Formula One.

49:35There is no place to hide. And we saw recently with Nick De Vries as a good example. He comes in, he gets very little time to prove himself and he's taken straight back out of the car. Do you ever think about that? Does that ever play on your mind that really you have to deliver now? Yeah, that definitely is playing on my mind. And I want to extract the maximum from myself. But I believe that with the team around me, Haas and Ferrari, they believe in me. they see a long-term future and give me time to learn and adapt and get used to it. But yeah, it's always playing on my mind that it's a ruthless sport, but I just want to use every lap now.

50:14I have some more free practice sessions and some more test days with Ferrari. I want to use that to be as ready as possible for the first race and make sure that I'm delivering it as well as I can, given my experience from round one next year. So let's talk about the preparation that you can go to then to make sure that you're in the perfect place. What does hard work look like for you? Again, there's a lot of aspects to hard work. Physically is step one and that's really the first thing on my mind because it can't be a consideration when you're racing. And now I know that it's confirmed, I've got eight months to make sure that I'm fully prepared.

50:50So I recently got into cycling and that's something that I'm pushing a lot on to increase my fitness level generally. but yeah the next training will go up tenfold before Australia. Then in the background I'm working hard on the simulator because unlike tennis, unlike football we can't practice on the racetrack every day or the court let's say. So you know that's the closest we can get to getting ready and you know with the simulator comes gained technical knowledge. so you know a lot of simulator work and a lot of um lessons hopefully with with the engineers within Haas and Ferrari to make sure that when race one comes I know everything there is to know about the car I know it inside out I think it will just help me be in a in a better frame of mind less obstructed um mentally yeah so yeah then I have no excuse not to perform so you can you can work on your physical fitness and I think a lot of people understand that what about the work on your mental strength?

51:51What are your plans there? I have a mental coach. His name's Enzo and we've been working together for a very long time as well. So he helps me and it's more someone that I can confide in, someone that I can, you know, tell all my problems and bring the weight off of my shoulders, not onto his, but, you know, sharing a problem is always helpful for me. And I feel like my whole team in general my father my manager and enzo they they are people that i can share my problems with um and and they help me to stay grounded and stay relaxed um and it does help me mentally yeah i'd love to to know from you i think it'd be really helpful for our audience actually the most valuable things you've learned from enzo the bits of advice he might have given you over the years you've worked together the things he said enzo is more is more helpful for me on the specifically to the racing side because I found myself at times especially in Formula 3 I was still young and you know I mean I am still young but I was mentally young let's say and I found myself getting worked up by things and it would really cloud my judgment and this is something that's not an option you know if someone would overtake me or I would make a mistake I would you know tumble into a stream of mistakes or make a bad move that was never an option but I was just doing out of desperation almost and that's something that I've come to terms with and I think it's a reason that I'm performing quite well I feel like this year it's been my best so far in terms of personal performance maybe not in terms of overall results because f2 has been a bit tough but I've picked my battles and that's something that I have you know it's been a bit of a weakness of mine.

53:34You know, you have a split second to make that decision. And it kind of comes back to the first question, what high performance is. And, you know, in the early days, I was just going through it all out no matter what. And, you know, that can bring a few good points and a few victories and stuff, but it doesn't bring a champion. I think what brings a champion is performing consistently well on all the days. And that's all about picking your battles. I love that. There's also a great value there in people hearing you say basically you failed right you know you you went for something that shouldn't have shouldn't have happened.

54:08I failed more often than not honestly even now you know I do make mistakes more often than I would like to but I think I take pride in the fact that I'm not going to redo it and that's something that I think has helped me to develop quickly as a driver and move up through the ranks pretty quickly. do you take time to enjoy what's going on? Because I've spoken to so many former sports people who say I never took the opportunity to enjoy it because I was just so focused on being victorious. You know, we've spoken about that amazing opportunity that you're in a Ferrari, but then immediately your brain is about, I need to deliver.

54:42Then your first ever qualifying session in Formula One, but you were disappointed with the way you finished. And then your first ever incredible race, the whole world is lording you and you're just disappointed that Charles Leclerc was so much further up the track than you were. Like, where was the joy? Yeah, I mean, I think it's a great question. You know, I think I should enjoy a bit more and people do always tell me to do so. And, you know, my manager especially, he was, you know, performing at a really high level in tennis. And that's one thing he does tell me. But when you're focused and driven and hungry to make it to the top, I don't think it's in your nature to enjoy.

55:26Funnily enough, it's a phrase that I have with my engineer. I have it actually in my chassis, a little sticker that just reminds me to enjoy, because it's a process, you know, it's my passion and it's what I love, but I don't take enough time to enjoy it. And that's something that I've really touched on this year, funnily enough. It's the last thing I say with my engineer before I get in the car, remember to enjoy it. Okay, so be totally honest with me. It's the last thing you say to your engineer, enjoy it. You've got a sticker beside the car telling you to enjoy it. I don't enjoy it, no. I'm fully focused on delivering but you know just having the phrase in the mind can help a little bit but no I wouldn't say enjoying is the something that I do enough it's something that I should probably work on What about ambition?

56:12Where does that sit with you? Do you set yourself targets goals and then set out to achieve them? Are you more process driven? I try to enjoy the process because I think setting goals whether it be for a championship position or for specific um you know results based it's quite difficult because you never know where you stand in terms of performance within the cars i try to look at the personal side when i when i look at ambition and it's not really something that you can you can count you can't really you can't really put it on a piece of paper but i i I look at my personal performance and you know whether you're happy with it or not.

56:53You know no matter the result, whether you're P1 or P5 or P10, you know whether you perform at your best or not. And that's my ambition. I want to perform at my best more often than not. I would be lying to you if I said I didn't want to win a world championship, I just wanted to perform at my best because of course I want to be a world champion. But I want to perform at what I'm capable of performing at. And that's my ambition. and if you were to write it down what is the ultimate for you the ultimate for me is to have a long career in racing in f1 i i want to race for ferrari of course you know they they've trusted me um and you know they've put a lot into me um over the years and it's every boy's dream to race in red um and i would love to do that one day um and just getting my foot in the door in jeddah that cemented that ambition even more.

57:45And yeah, I really do hope that one day I can win races for Ferrari. That's my ultimate dream. Yeah, but aside from that, I want to continue doing what I love. You know, I want to do this for as long as possible. I look at people like Luis and Fernando racing into their 40s. And this is something that I hope to do one day. You know, you need the talent and ability to get there, but I really hope that I can do so. And for people who are excited about you racing in Formula 1 for Haas next season, what would you like to tell them about your feelings about that season? What do you want out of that season?

58:22I just want to be proud of my performances. And it's always what I've said, and it's not results-based. It's not based on performance because it's not only me that determines the performance. so I just want to perform at a high level be proud of what I've done focus on the process and build up step by step and look back and say this is the guy that can win a race eventually this is the guy that is performing at the level that he should and if I perform at the level I should that's all I can do right I can only perform to what I can but I have the belief in myself that I can perform at a very high level So I just want to do that.

59:07Right, let's do some quick fire questions. What are the three most important behaviors that matter to you and that you think have got you to where you are today? I think discipline is the first one. Discipline is something that I have missed a bit in the past and something that I've really worked on. And it's something that really counts not only on track, but also off track, your time management, how hard you work away from the track as well. These are things that all come down to discipline. and it's something that I continue to work on. I think being a genuine person is a really important behavior to have.

59:45You need to know where you stand, and that's something that I found in a lot of people that I work with. They won't beat around the bush. They won't please me. They won't say the correct things. They'll say how it is, and that's really important to me because in a sport like this, you need to know exactly where you stand, and that's why I really love the group of people I have. I think you have to be really driven to get along with me because I feel like I'm like that myself. And if I see someone without aspirations, then it's tough to push with them. And that's something I find with my team in Prema, how much they want this.

1:00:30You really see the passion and it helps everyone mutually. you know it drives everyone forward I felt like that's a really important behavior what's the most important piece of advice you've ever been given I tend to struggle a bit with overthinking and that is something that that has helped me um just to to go through it with Enzo but with my previous boss Marco as well in Ferrari it's something it's a subject that we often touched upon um and I mean if the advice is simply don't overthink it's it's you know it's a bit more complex than that but finding ways to stay focused on the goal and the process especially in the car because I do struggle a bit with that and it's very racing specific but kind of going through gates in your in your head um lap by lap sector by sector um and you know keep focusing ahead and not yeah thinking about anything else interesting so does having those gates when you're in the car Are those the next sort of achievement you want to, whether it's a lap time or?

1:01:33Yeah, whether it's, you know, working on the next corner or just resetting every lap. And these things, I call them gates. It's like a mental reset or refresh that I try to use when I'm driving. And it keeps my mind at ease and it keeps me focused on the correct things. What's your biggest strength? What's your greatest weakness? My biggest strength? I think I'm a quick learner. it's a bad thing to say because it's a bit you know almost full of yourself and i hate being like that but i feel like i have a decent mental capacity that i can you know take on a lot of information and still perform at a good level and your greatest weakness i mean i have a lot of weaknesses i think i tend to struggle sometimes to take emotion away from things as much as i don't show it i'm quite an emotional person and it's strange because I only get the ultimate highs and the ultimate lows of emotion.

1:02:32I'm a very stable person. I don't really get extremely happy or extremely sad. I only get extremely, extremely happy or extremely, extremely sad. So it really makes it a bit tough for me to remove emotion from my sport and my job. So interesting you said that because I see you as really stable, really carefully thought about like i don't know i wouldn't see you as someone that's up there or down there yeah i mean honestly i it's more often down there than it is up there but yeah sometimes i struggle a bit to take away some anger and emotion from from it and yeah sometimes it can it can come out the wrong way and i can push people away a little bit and that makes life professional life sometimes a bit difficult and it's something i i continue to work on.

1:03:24And look, the final question, your golden rule, if you like, for living a high performance life, what would you love to leave people thinking about? It's all about your drive and motivation. You know, over the years, I'm very early into my career, you know, compared to people you've spoken to, like I said at the beginning with Fernando and people like this, but I have been through a lot of highs and lows um and questioned myself sometimes and how much i really wanted this and that the fact that i did want this and the fact that i continue to push um that's my motivation and you know that's what will hopefully make me succeed one day top man thank you i love chatting to ollie his admission there that he's emotionally up and down actually surprised me because I found him so in control, so considered, so much wiser than 19 years of age.

1:04:19And, you know, as you know, I said at the start of the show, I've worked in and around Formula One for almost 20 years. I've never known a story like his and I can't wait to see how he performs for Haas and Oli. All of us here at High Performance are rooting for you. And don't forget if you're an F1 fan or even if you're not, we've got an amazing catalogue of Formula One guests with amazing stories about their lives from Lando Norris to George Russell, from Mercedes boss Toto Wolff to Fernando Alonso. anyone got Lewis Hamilton's number? Anyway thanks so much for listening stay humble curious and empathetic and we'll see you again soon

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