Ollie Watkins: From Non-League to the Champions League, how I climbed football's most competitive ladder (E265)

0:28Watch it early on the High Performance app. a tournament, you know, having a season like I've had this year.

0:36That is England and Aston Villa striker Ollie Watkins. And this is High Performance, the show that unlocks the minds of the most fascinating people on the planet. I'm Jake Humphrey and alongside our expert Damien Hughes, we learn from the stories, the struggles and the successes of our guests. And today is a rare opportunity to hear the journey of Ollie Watkins that simply has not been told before. In this conversation, he's vulnerable, he's humble, he's honest, but you'll also see his rock solid belief shines through. He hasn't taken the traditional path to the top of the football world and that makes it all the more compelling.

1:13Let's do it and welcome a rare conversation with Ollie Watkins to High Performance. But first, let's quickly hear from our partners who allow us to give you this episode totally free.

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3:27Oli, welcome to the show. Thank you. Thank you for joining us. What do you believe high performance to be? I think high performance isn't the outcome, it's the things that you do daily to achieve where you want to get to and just being consistent with the little one percenters every day that get you to where you set out to be. And for the first time in your entire career, we can talk to you as a player who's qualified for the Champions League. So congratulations. Thank you very much. Yes, it's very nice from my journey, obviously playing non-league football to then going to be playing Champions League football next year is definitely something I wouldn't say I dreamt about.

4:10well I did dream about but didn't think it would become real and we've had so many players that have had incredible careers have retired and then joined us on this show you're in a different position because you're in the middle of your career and I would say to a player they've all said wish I'd stopped just to enjoy the special moments a little bit more have you taken a moment yet just to realise that the journey you've been on which we're about to talk about has culminated in you qualifying for the biggest football tournament that you can play in as a club footballer? Have you had that moment just to reflect yet?

4:41I think it is very difficult to do it because you're always training. It's always the next game. You're always thinking about the next thing. But I do kind of pinch myself sometimes when I, you know, look around and yeah, just see how well we've done as a team and me personally, my journey. And when I speak to old friends and stuff like that, it does kind of bring back, yeah, Yeah, good memories. And I do kind of enjoy it more. Before, I definitely found it hard to kind of enjoy the moments or whenever I've done well, I was always sweeping it under the rug and thinking on to the next, on to the next.

5:20That still is my mindset, but I definitely enjoy the little wins along the way. Well, before we talk about this season and where you're at now, let's rewind the clock a bit. I'm especially keen to rewind back to the kid who was told no thank you by Exeter when he was just a wee lad? How old did you have been when Exeter first sort of rejected your advances to play football there? I think I was nine. I went on trial and I couldn't concentrate. I can remember it clear as day. There was things going on in the background and when coaches are trying to speak to you and stuff, I would be looking past them, see what everyone else is doing, not concentrating.

6:00To be fair, I still struggle with concentration now these days. I knew at the time that I could play. I was good enough technically and stuff like this. I wasn't out of place, but just that side of it, the concentrating was really difficult for me. So I was keen to kind of prove them wrong. I've always had that hunger in my belly throughout the years and I think it's gone on to help me to where I am today. So did that initial rejection fire that or feed that hunger in your belly to go and prove, or was that already there? Yeah, I'd say so. There's been multiple periods in my career where I've had to prove people wrong.

6:42I think I'm still doing it to this day. There will always be people that judge you and have things to say. On reflection now, there are a couple of routes in. One is doing this, it's starting effectively grassroots down the bottom of the football pyramid and grafting your way up. or a lot of young people end up at these amazing category one academies and they're treated almost like pro footballers from the age of 10 or 11. I'm really interested in what you think it gave you that you didn't go down the academy route that you were kind of you went down the much more traditional route of a long slow build through the game to the point where you are now.

7:20Yeah I think it hearing you explain it like that actually makes me kind of smile and happy and if If someone said you could start in a category one academy or choose to be at Exeter, I would choose that all the way because I feel like it's made me the person I am today. It's not given to you on a plate. You have to work hard for it. So then when you do get to my position now and you're playing in top stadiums and stuff, but do go back to the FA Cup, I've done it all before. So it's nothing new to me. and what do you think out of all the lessons that that period taught you that you're still calling on today i think just humility really um like i said about you know little things like stadiums and stuff if i was at a category one club actually i can remember when we played man united when um when i was in the academy and their pictures like i was like i could sleep I could sleep on this and everything was just perfect and I it just seemed like another world and I was I think we were only 13 14 at the time and it still seemed like yeah it was just a different world to us because we didn't have pitches like that and um facilities like that so um yeah I would say humility yeah and I can understand how now right you know as a 28 year old dad with a great career you can look back and I go I can see the benefit of what I went through but what about at the time did you not look at those pictures at Man United and think I'd love to be here like how did you have the patience to realize that you were in an okay place yeah don't get me wrong um that was always the aim it was always to to move on to to bigger things I wanted to be in a um I wanted to be playing in And on those training grounds, it was the kind of same thing all the way throughout.

9:15You want to aim to be the best. And the lad from my academy actually got bought by Man United. So I thought it was possible to move on to something like that. And that was always the aim throughout. Can we talk about Western Supermare? Yeah. Because what I really like about this is I think you would have been 19 years old, I think, when you went there. Yeah, yeah. And yet you're now playing with, you know, Sean Duran, who's only a few months older than you were then, and he's playing in the Premier League for Aston Villa, right? So was there not a moment of impatience where you're thinking, you know, I'm seeing 17, 18, 19-year-olds play Premier League football.

9:56I'm 19 and I'm at Western Supermair. yeah there is obviously you compare yourself a lot in any aspect of life but I always felt like I was ready to to play um much earlier on but obviously the manager was waiting he was quite clever and uh biding time and um not rushing you in too soon um but that was one of the best things I did you know going out to play um football on loan at Western Supermare fighting for free points I say and people had mortgages to pay and bills to pay kids to feed you know it's then a job and I still joke about it now to my friends saying from my help to potentially playing Champions League football yeah just it just seems crazy you know playing in games like that and it wasn't actually that long ago when I think about it that, you know, I had that experience, but I wouldn't change it for the world.

10:58But you said earlier, Oli, that you've always been a bit of a dreamer. When you find yourself in that dressing room, bumping shoulders with your teammates and running out in front of four fans, were you still dreaming that one day you might be in the Premier League or representing your country? I never thought about the Premier League. To be fair, I was then thinking, I just want to get back to Exeter and play. that was just the main focus you know I was on loan then I was doing quite well so I just wanted to perform then and then get back so I could play in the first team at Exeter that was just the goal I wasn't thinking too far ahead I was just thinking of something that was quite achievable was there a part of you that thought well this needs to be successful like you can't go from Exeter on loan to Western Supermare and then not deliver because there's a strong chance you don't make it at Exeter if that's the case, right?

11:50Yeah, in some ways, but I never had that mindset. I always thought that I could go there because it was a couple of leagues below League Two. I played a few games and I felt like I could handle myself in that league. So I never doubted my ability. Even when I broke into the first team at Exeter, it wasn't until the second season where I then considered myself as, well, I didn't even consider myself as a senior pro, but I definitely didn't feel like I'd made it. So how did you perceive yourself then? I feel like I've always been quite humble. I've never wanted to come across arrogance. So I've just kind of, yeah, I've never perceived myself as any, you know, any bigger than anyone or anything like that.

12:40I see myself as a senior pro now because I've got to where I am and I've played a lot of games. But at that time, I was just a young lad who had broken into the first team. So we recently interviewed Alex Singleshorpe, who runs the academy at Liverpool. And we've both got young lads. My son plays football as an eight-year-old, right? And he's the nicest kid. If there's ever two players running for a ball, he will stop every time and let his teammate get it. The minute a teammate asks for a pass, he plays it as quick as he can. he can't get within and I sort of I sometimes feel I want to say to him can you be a bit nastier?

13:13Can you be a bit more competitive? Can you be a bit hungrier? And I'm kind of hearing a bit of this coming through with you you know Alex said to us at Liverpool they want the kids that get really upset that are really angry that you need to rein in rather than the kids that you need to fire up. Yeah I was never I was never that sort of fired up kid although I do feel like I play better So when I'm angry, I can't just get angry. And yeah, it's something that's just never been within me. You know, there'll be some players, my dad would always say to me, oh, you need to be a bit more aggressive.

13:45And I'd say, yeah, but dad, that's not me. So I was never going to change the way I play or try and portray myself as, you know, this aggressive bully who bulldozed everyone. Did you ever try? Yeah, I tried to before, but I felt like mentally it would then kind of, I would have brain fog and it would hinder my performance rather than, you know, making me excel and perform better. So it's almost like if you're trying to be more aggressive, it's taking you out of that flow state of just being Ollie Watkins. Exactly. And I'm being, in my mind, I'm maybe a bit wound up or something like that. But I think that then affects, it would then affect my performance.

14:27You know, I may have a bad touch and then I'm thinking about that. And yeah, I would say it would just affect me mentally more. can we talk about that then for a second because we actually sent a message to one of your former bosses right just saying that we're going to chat to Wally I'd love to know what you think and he was with you earlier in your career he said incredible presser of the ball unbelievable output on the pitch amazing kid lacks belief at times is that fair? we're talking not about the Olly that's sitting in front of us today this is with you know we're going back seven or eight years to that point yeah that's one thing that But definitely throughout my career, I've started to believe in myself more.

15:08But the belief was one thing that maybe was holding me back. I always believed in myself, but not to the point where it was, you know, you need to be kind of borderline, have that bit of arrogance, you know, that self-belief that no one's going to stop you and you're confident in your own ability. So tell us about the distinction then and how you've gone about building that? I'd say mindset is the most important thing. You know, you can, your brain can tell you a lot of things. You can have self-doubt. There may still be moments where I have self-doubt in the morning and just being okay with your thoughts because everyone has thoughts, but just being okay with, oh, that's just a thought that comes into your head and you kind of can trick your brain into believing different things.

15:59and I think yeah just working on my mindset and just making sure going into the game I've got everything off my chest I speak to a life coach who's definitely since I've been working with him he's definitely helped me and yeah I think the the mind is probably the most powerful thing because people don't they train every day physically in the gym but it takes a lot to to change your mindset. So when did that relationship begin with the life coach? It was pretty much actually just before the boss come in. What, at Villa? At Villa, yeah. So before Emery came in, I tried to use him before and then I thought this guy's kind of, I was just like, no.

16:42I had, I think, a couple of good games and I was like, oh, I don't really need to use him anymore. Whereas I've learned that, you know, it's consistency. and like I said, being consistent every day, you know, no matter if you have a good day or a bad day. If I haven't scored or if I've scored three goals, I'll still speak to him. I still speak to him before a game and after games to make sure I debrief on everything and then I can move on to the next game. And yeah, since he's came in, it's helped me a lot. So if someone was to have watched you when you were playing at Brentford before you started this relationship and then watched you now at Villa thriving, that the relationship is active.

17:23What would be the big difference they'd see between the Oli then and the Oli today? I think physically, they would probably say I look a lot more powerful because when I first joined Brentford, I wasn't too familiar with going to the gym. Well, I used to go to the gym, but I used to do beach weights, as I'd say, whereas now I'd yeah I do performance specific weights in the gym you know mostly every day working on little things to improve on and then I think they would think I'm more focused aggressive but more aggressive not as in bullying people but you know if that's the runs I'm making or when I'm with the ball just being more direct and positive so yeah I would say probably a more mature grown up and will you now call him even if you feel great and you've got no issues and life's fine and you're about to play a game you'll still pick up the phone yeah I will actually before I'd be like I don't need to call him but sometimes I just need to sometimes I just call him for a chat and just to check in and sometimes pick his brains on things yeah because it's just it's just nice to improve and I never feel like I want to reach out just when I need something.

18:46I'm not that sort of person. So, yeah, I speak to him quite often, I would say. I feel like it's the best investment I've made. One of the best investments I've made, you know, investing into myself, investing into my mindset, definitely made me become a better player. And has he said anything to you that's made you think, oh my goodness, like, that makes such sense, but I didn't see it before. Almost kind of the best bit of advice or a little mantra he's given you that you think might be valuable for people to hear? Yeah, he's very blunt, but he says to me, I remember I scored a hat-trick after Brighton and he said, like, well done, but it doesn't mean anything.

19:26And he's right, it doesn't, because I've still got the next game to perform in. So if I'm just sat there celebrating, going, I'll get the beers out. I'm the man. I'm the man, but it doesn't mean anything, you know, because I've got another game on Tuesday. So as good as I've done, and you need to move on to the next. But also when I've had a bad game, but that doesn't mean anything. He says, you've got the next game to put it right. And how much has he helped your mindset in the game? Because I remember, I can't remember the game because I'm used to remembering these things, but I remember seeing you, it was either a ball across the box and you totally missed it or you connected with it, but badly.

19:59And literally 30 seconds later, you're scoring a goal. And I wonder whether he's been instrumental in you realizing that that mistake is that moment. It doesn't mean the rest of the game is going to go the same way. Yeah, exactly. I think for a start, you've got to be there to miss it. I'd rather miss a chance than not have any chances the whole game. So always trying to look at it in a positive way. And then if I've missed, it's kind of like laugh or cry. So I try and look up and smile and be like, yeah, kind of play it off really. Obviously deep down, I wish I had scored or taken that opportunity.

20:37but yeah, I never look at it as like a miss. I just say it as it's an opportunity. I haven't taken that opportunity, not I've missed, if you know what I mean. It's really interesting when we spoke to Ole Gunnar Solskjaer, he said there's no such thing as a good save. It's only a bad miss. Yeah. Don't think like that, by the way. There is such a thing as a good save, right? Yeah, exactly. I was going to say the keepers wouldn't be agreeing with that. But again, there's an echo in that idea of learning to laugh. When we spoke to the British tennis star, Johanna Conte, she spoke about, she worked with a psychologist who identified that whenever she made a mistake, she'd immediately start beating herself up.

21:21I should have done better. I have to do well on this. You know, this can't be happening. And he identified that that was making the pain of what she'd just experienced so much deeper and she wasn't able to move on from it. And she wrote the word smile on the handle of a tennis racket to remind her that just smile if you miss a shot. What does it do for you by learning to laugh or smile when you miss a chance? Yeah, I think it's a coping mechanism really. And even when I'm doing finishing in training, sometimes I'll be annoyed that I haven't scored a certain chance. and then I realised, I think, like, did you actually think you're going to score every shot that you take?

22:07There's no such thing as perfection. I was a little bit of a perfectionist before and that's something I've come to terms with. You know, saying little things like that, I'm not going to score every shot I take in training. So as much as I would love to, it's just not going to happen. Because like you're talking to us as someone who is a brilliant Premier League footballer, right? So you've almost earned the right to have a bit of freedom now. I think if you roll back a few years I think that perfection is probably the reason why you're sitting here today, you know Yeah, definitely putting pressure on myself was one of the best things I've did it did hinder my performance but I feel like it's got me where I am today I put pressure on myself but not as much as I used to and I feel like I kind of was kind of happy or yeah, I was happy to just be here and that nice guy.

23:03But now I feel like, yeah, I would never sit here before and say I deserve to be where I am today. But now I can openly say that with confidence. I think people need to know your story as well, that the disappointments along the way are really quite instrumental in the positive mindset that you have now. You know, the League 2 playoff final for Exeter, right? You lost it, right? Yeah, I lost that and I lost the championship playoff final as well. So I've had some setbacks that you have to overcome. How did you process those two? it was it was it was weird for me because after the league two uh won that was my last game and then i left to go to brentford um and then after the brentford won the against fulham that was my last game also and then i left to go to villa so it's not like i kind of had another season to then you know redeem redeem myself or not redeem myself personally but as a team you know collectively try and then get there the following year and then succeed.

24:15Phil Giles spoke to us around your reaction to that playoff defeat in the championship where he said what struck him was just how devastated you were for the staff and the people around the club as much as for yourself and he felt that was a really good indicator of the sort of person you were. Yeah, I was just upset because we'd worked so hard, you know, to get there. And yeah, I just felt a little bit, felt like we let them down because collectively it's not just the 11 players on the pitch, it's the Masters and everyone doing the hard work behind the scenes that help you get to, well, get that team to where they are.

24:59so yeah I was just I was devastated I knew it was my last season as well I knew it was the the time for me to leave but I loved it there and I didn't want that to be the end of the road but I knew it I had to leave to you know to move on to the next step but is that rare that as a footballer you would be taking into account all those other people that do the work in the shadows no there's definitely other people that you know like that think like that just me in that scenario he happened to walk it when I was when I was crying and I was upset and just because yeah I loved it there they invested money into me and and believed in me you know when I was a young lad in League Two so yeah I knew how much the club had done for me and that's why I was upset that I kind of knew it was the end of the road.

25:51So you were crying? Yeah, yeah. It was more the day after when we had to go in and, you know, I was saying goodbye. We were saying goodbye to everyone because you go off in the summer. But yeah, it was a bit of, yeah, it was a disappointing day for me. But I knew it was kind of happy tears as well because I knew I was probably going to move on. And Thomas Frank, the manager, said to me on the first day, he said, we'll be in the Premier League next season we'll get promoted this year. He seemed so confident. And I left and they did that. You mentioned, almost as a throwaway comment, I knew it was time for me to move on.

26:31Can you explain to us how you knew it was time for you to move on? Just because I progressed each year, each season. I felt like I'd been there for three seasons. That was kind of the agreement. I signed a new contract at the start of the season and Phil was a man of his word. Phil and Matthew Benham, really good guys and they were a man of their word. What was the agreement? Well, basically a team in the Premier League had come in for me before and they said, look, we'll give you an improved contract. You stay here for a year. If we don't get promoted, you can leave. So it wasn't written in my contract, but they said that to me and I believed them and they said, if we get the right amount for you, then we'll let you leave.

27:22And that's what happened. So I knew I'd done well that season in the championship. What I'm interested in, that must have been quite hard to turn down the opportunity. You're a kid that's come through the ranks at Exeter, you've gone to Brentford. To turn down that chance to go to a Premier League club must have been tough. Yeah, I remember sat with my agent actually and he was brutally honest with me and I'm very close with him and he said, you can go to this team in the Premier League but I feel like there's still more to give at Brentford. I don't feel like you've had that standout season where people say, wow, he deserves to move.

28:03People there may be questioning your move at this time going to a Premier League team.

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30:17again you talk about a virtue that i think often gets overlooked in in high performance which is patience sometimes recognizing that you have to be patient for the right time to come rather than to try and force it yeah i think nothing good happens overnight um sometimes it may not seem like you're progressing but you have to just keep plodding away keep working harder than you you never know when when things will click and i think if you if you work hard there's no way that you're not going to get to where you want to get to i look at some of the greatest football moments of people i mean paul gascoigne probably the greatest natural talent for england gaz's tears is one of the most famous and most iconic images like i think it's a really important thing because there's this feeling that well footballers have a nice life earn some good money drive great cars do they care like the fans do but to hear you saying that you'd be in tears with a big moment I think it's important for people to realize actually what it means to you yeah and I think people have that sort of stigma of footballers thinking oh yeah but it's fine if they lose they can just drive back in their nice car or but it doesn't matter what car you're in you're still driving home thinking we've just lost and I've had a rubbish game it still affects you it doesn't matter what car you're in and i think people sort of they have that bad stigma about footballers because obviously we're in a fortunate position and um we have some nice things and we're yeah we're very privileged um but it doesn't take away the pain when you've lost or you still hurt like other we're just normal human beings kind of like that conversation about crying in the dressing room is really interesting because as you were telling me i remember again phil giles telling me a really nice story about you he said you made a lovely cup of tea and he said like so when he'd go into like the canteen or whatever you'd always jump up and make a cup of tea for people or you'd go and get the brew order in and i like the idea of somebody prepared to be the dissenter you know it's easy to be the macho guy who say I'd never cry but to be the one that goes well I would or the guy that would say you know I don't care about other people but then to go and get the drinks in for everybody how important is it to be a dissenter in an environment like that?

32:39Yeah I feel everyone doesn't want to be the person that would admit that you know but I've always just been open and honest and if I'm feeling a certain way you know So I think people respect you more than rather than lying about your feelings or not admitting to feeling like that. So, yeah, I would say just always be open and honest. And it's easy when you're in a male environment to want to be that macho kind of person. But I think it takes a real man to speak up and be open and honest. and we've had conversations on this show with michael antonio talking about deciding he no longer wanted to play football he was out of love with the game and going to therapy we've had conversations with people in all sorts of different sports about the importance of talking and being true to yourself and being yourself do you do you feel that we now live in a world where more of these conversations are happening and it's a it's a healthier environment it feels like it to us on the outside but yeah i feel like there's been a lot of a lot of uh focus on mental health um and i think it's really important because like i said i bottle things up everyone does and you know you wait for to kind of explode or get to the low point before you you then seek advice from someone but um stuff like this these platforms to see that everyone goes through struggles everyone has their own stuff that they that they're dealing with well talking of exploding I want to talk about the moment you exploded onto the Premier League scene with your perfect hat-trick against Liverpool.

34:16So, you know, scoring your first goal in the Premier League is a big deal. Doing it against Liverpool, smashing them and scoring a perfect hat-trick is pretty special. But aside from just the goals, I'm really interested in what that did for your mindset and whether that was the moment perhaps where you thought, oh, I really can do this. I can be an established Premier League player. yeah it was a special night really special night i hadn't scored previously before that and you know i was just focusing on just the first one is always hard the hardest to get especially at a new club um when i didn't realize how big villa was as well as soon as i got to to birmingham and went out for food i was always getting like chefs were sending me out desserts with sparklers and stuff and um i wasn't used to that so yeah i had a lot of pressure on me people saying come on when you're going to score your first goal and then obviously that night I then got free and kind of set the standard for myself, yeah.

35:15So how did you learn to cope with the noise of packed stadiums and be able to tune it out? Yeah, I think the year after was then when the fans came back in. I was injured at the start of the season but I was watching from, I was watching up in the stadium and I was looking around thinking, wow, like this is, I would love to play in front of all this. But also I was a little bit nervous thinking soon when I get back, like it is a bit hostile. At the time we weren't doing very well. So I knew that it could hinder your performance. And I felt like sometimes I was listening to the fans, seeing their reactions.

35:57But now I don't take it in really. I enjoy it. I love the noise. I quite like the abuse sometimes actually. Is that right? Yeah, yeah. Sometimes the away fans or something like that, I quite like playing away and not sort of winding them up. But I think there's actually a clip where I scored away at Sheffield United and you can see one of the fans is giving me some abuse and I'm just laughing at him when I've scored by the corner flag. Yeah, I quite enjoy it now, actually. The old me would have been a little bit shy and not given anything back, probably scared about what people's reactions would be or what people would say on social media saying you can't do this, whereas now I don't really care, to be fair.

36:44I think it's quite funny. Yeah, I felt like if someone's given it to you, you can give it back and it's fair game, really. See, I'm loving this conversation because I'm just getting this sense of someone who has found freedom in the most difficult place to find freedom, which is the ferocious atmosphere of a Premier League football pitch. So I'd like to know the moment that you actually felt like you belonged in the Premier League. Can you remember that? I scored against Arsenal last year. There was a moment where I was one-on-one with Saliba and I did a step over and scored and I kind of did a celebration.

37:22I was pointing to myself saying, I'm here. You get carried away in your celebrations. But that's when the belief kind of kicked in and I was really confident in my own ability and thought, yeah, just felt confident and wasn't afraid to admit that I deserve to be where I am. And I knew from then on I kicked on. My mindset changed completely and I'm not shocked by the season that I've had this year because of all the hard work I've put in previously and learned new things along the way. and like I said, that consistency has got me to where I am today and yeah, it's only going to get better from here onwards.

38:07The manager, when he first came in, said to me, you were going to score a lot of goals and he put that belief in me. So then it was up to me to provide and put that belief in myself. So yeah, I'm not surprised by where I've got to now. There's an old saying that confidence is built on evidence. So to have that confidence that you belong here, what do you do to provide yourself with the evidence of it do you use any techniques to remind yourself of what you said is the hard work or the struggles you've experienced um yeah sometimes i'll look i'll look back at you know um my clips or like a highlight reel of the season um say if i did ever have that self-doubt um and then yeah it just kind of reminds you because sometimes if you're going through a bad patch, you may only focus on that.

39:00Whereas, you know, if you look at the whole journey, I kind of like to look at it as like a stock market. It always goes up and down. But then if you look at it over a long period, it's always up. So when you look at it like that and look at all the good things I've done, like I said, when I look through the highlight reel, I show all my good things and that keeps the belief really. I love the idea of you typing Oli Watkins' best goals into YouTube or something. I don't type Oli Watkins' best goals, but I've got, yeah, I've got like a little highlight reel. It's great. This plays into the fact that you've got to find what works for you.

39:40Yeah. Right. And there should be no shame at all in saying watching me do good stuff makes me feel good. Well, of course it does. Would you mind breaking down for our audience, particularly people who might be where you were a decade ago or people who might be where my little eight-year-old dreaming of playing in the Premier League is? Like, what does the week look like? for you to get yourself to being the best? Well, this season we've had a lot of games, a lot of games. So a typical week would probably be, well, when we're in Europe, game Sunday, in Monday, training, recovery, so ice baths, massage from the therapist, stretching, going on the bike, flushing your legs out.

40:23then I have lunch go home and then later that afternoon there's an osteopath that I work with I see him and a sports performance therapist religiously so I'll always see them before the week that is one thing that I'm kind of set on if I haven't seen them then I am kind of and you bring these in this isn't a problem yeah yeah this is so the club don't pay for that I pay for that okay yeah so he'll come to my house on a day after a game or maybe two days after um so i have treatment with him for maybe an hour and 15 minutes and then later on in the week i'll have day before the game or two days before the game i'll have the sports performance therapist he comes in and does like a lighter of treatment on me but um he's something someone i'm i'm so sure of that i have to i have to have and feel like it um i definitely think that that helps for me and what about the other one percent stuff whether it's about nutrition or diet what like what do you do to give yourself an edge there yeah i i don't have a chef because personally i don't like i like to just when i'm at home relax and have my own company i've tried a chef before and it's good but i feel like nutrition my nutrition's spot on I'm always speaking to the nutritionist I know what works and know what to eat at the right times and certain things like that I've definitely learnt through over the period of my career each year I learn something new but I would say having the right people around me is massive you know that small circle is one of the most important things How do you decide who gets into be that that inner circle i think i always keep people at arm's length um but also i always get like a a good gauge of people and um i think you know when i've if i have had a good game and i've scored and it's on sky or whatever you come in you change your room and your phones i've got full of messages and people well done maybe but then it's i learned something or when I've come in, I've had a stinker.

42:42I think first game of the season, we lost 5-1 to Newcastle. Come in, I only had a couple of messages off my best pals or off my missus saying, it's fine, don't worry. They're the people that you want to, you know, the true people that actually care about you. They're not there for the good times that are there when it's not going so well as well. And what about getting carried away as a footballer? You know, I sometimes think that if you get into the Premier League really young, it's easy. But equally, if you've grafted and grafted and then it eventually happens, you can also allow that to get you carried away.

43:15I'm very interested in who keeps your feet on the ground, whether it's your parents, your wife, maybe the fact that you're a dad, right? Maybe that makes a difference. But how are you not the guy that's going out thinking I'm the main man now? I'm one of the best strikers in the Premier League. My mates would hammer me, to be fair. And yeah, everyone around me, I feel like they wouldn't be afraid to say, like, don't be an idiot. Have they ever had so? No, because I'm not that sort of... I always see myself as just... People see footballers as like these superstars and stuff like that. I just see myself as a normal person and I feel like it's quite easy for me to...

43:54I feel like I'm quite relatable to some people because I've come from obviously the lower leagues and I don't... You know, I'm not Flash. I don't, I feel like I'm very well grounded and want to come across as quite normal. So I've never want to be a flash person. So I wouldn't want to come across like that. Can we talk about one of the big things that's happened in your life in the last couple of years and the impact it's had, which is the arrival of Unai Emery at Aston Villa. I mean, everyone's trying to work out what has he done. Would you mind telling us what you think he's done that's brought such success to that football club?

44:38Consistency. He's very consistent with even training, videos. He's never too high, never too low.

44:49Yeah, the thing that I really like about the boss is that he drills into us that we're very privileged men to be doing what we're doing and every day be humble. He always respects the opposition. He says before the game, maybe 20 times, to respect the opposition because they're good players, no matter where they are in the league. If it's top of the league or bottom of the league, to always respect them and that we're privileged people to be doing what we are today. So enjoy it and make the most of it. What was his message when he first came into the club? Do you remember that first meeting? yeah I can remember it it was it was a bit of a blur it was a little bit of a blur to be honest because there was so much rushing around and stuff like that but as soon as he got out onto the training pitch and he was very demanding he was very in the video meetings it was very deep analysis and long long meetings but he got his point across very quickly and clear yeah he's he's just changed the whole system around really.

46:02And how did he build a relationship with you? I remember the night before the Man United game, he told me, I think I was only on three goals come Christmas time and he said to me, by the end of the season, you're going to score 15 goals. I've watched all your clips at Brentford. You're an amazing player. I don't need to buy another striker. I'm going to stick with you. so I had all this he had all this faith in me before I'd even played a game for him and yeah that's just something you want to hear really and I thought 15 goals like I'm only on 3 goals there's another 12 goals in you know maybe like 18 games he obviously does have a lot of belief in me so it was nice to hear that and do you know how many you scored between then and the end of the season?

46:5315 I got to 15 I got to 15, yeah Because I remember before that you know, Villa were being linked with lots of strikers I think strikers were coming into the football club I'm interested in what it did for you when he said I don't need another striker you're the guy Yeah, obviously it's not nice to be seeing other players being linked with the club, especially in your position because it feels like why would you look elsewhere when you've got something there there obviously is some doubt around you you never know with those rumours if they're true or not but when he said that he wasn't going to buy anyone I think he sold Danny Ings actually who I thought was an unbelievable player and he sold him in January and said you're going to play so yeah having that faith put into me was nice and I felt like a new belief came out in me and confidence that yeah he knew I was going to perform and I kind of had a little bit of pressure off of me actually.

47:56It kind of took pressure off of me because he was so confident I was going to do well. You've had a number of managers, not just Emery. I'm interested in who has got the best out of you and what are their methods to do so? I would have to say Unai. Just because Premier League is a different level, yeah, it's just the hardest level to do it at, I think. So I've scored a lot of goals since he's come in. so I would definitely say him but I feel like I've performed well under most of my managers. I think you have. Tell us about the last few months of the season when Spurs are breathing down your neck, the Champions League is on the line, it's like the most unbelievable achievement for Aston Villa if they can get there and then suddenly everything seems a bit harder, I imagine.

48:46Trying to pick up results, worrying about opposition, trying to get over the line. how did you deal with that period and what was it like inside the club for the last few games of the season? I felt like we dealt with it quite well although deep down maybe consciously we may have been thinking about it a lot because as soon as you get off the pitch and Tottenham are playing at the same time or someone will come up to you and say Tottenham lost or Tottenham won and so there was a lot of talk and everyone was fighting for us all to get to, everyone had the same objective and we all wanted to get to the same place.

49:24So as much as you didn't want to hear about it, you kind of wanted to hear the good news of them losing. I feel like it did affect us a little bit, but in the end we had done enough over the course of the season to do enough and get across the line. There was a brilliant interview that Unai did after the Manchester United game on Boxing Day when you let slip a two-goal lead and lost. And where he was being interviewed and the interviewer wanted to talk about the doom and gloom he must have felt. And he was brilliant at setting it in that wider context of going, we're still doing great in the league.

50:01Like, let's focus on the positives. Is that a technique he regularly uses? Yeah, definitely. And it's something that I've kind of used to help me personally. by just taking each game step by step and looking at how far we've come. I think we were 2-0 up against Chelsea not long ago and they end up coming back and drawing 2-2. And everyone was mad after the game, but I kind of looked at it as a positive and thought, you know, 18 months ago, if we got a draw against Chelsea, we would have been over the moon. And now we're, you know, we're furious that we haven't beat them. So it just shows how far the club have come and where we're going to.

50:48I've loved looking at your story so far and there's this recurring theme of proving people wrong. Whether it is playing in the lower leagues as a young guy and wanting to make that move, whether it's finally getting the chance in the Premier League after a couple of disappointing playoff finals for Exeter and Brentford. You're now 28. You've played in a team that's qualified for the Champions League. you've been the standout English striker in the Premier League for a season what would you still love to achieve? For me personally to win something a team award you know at the end of the season you want to try and come away with something or even at the end of your career you know it may be great saying I've scored this amount of goals or I won this individual award but as a team saying I won the FA Cup or the League or the Euros, World Cup.

51:44They're the things that you want to have and tell your grandkids and things like that. So I think winning a trophy would be the one. And we're having a conversation on the verge of a major tournament. So do you now feel ready to be a striker for England at a major tournament? Yes, I'm ready. you know I've had one of my best well undoubtedly my best season this year and I feel like I'm confident in myself and my ability and there's not a better time for me to go into a tournament you know having a season like I've had this year I feel like I deserve to be there I'm confident in my own ability and whenever I put on an England shirt I've done well and I feel like I can do more I've got a lot to bring to the table and um that that's that's my aim to you know to make the Euro squad and hopefully achieve something great with them because when we interviewed Gareth Southgate he spoke to us about Jude Bellingham and he had that lovely phrase where he said he's incredibly respectful off the field but he shows no respect when he goes on it how do you sort of tread that line because we've spoken a little bit about how you do that in your club career.

53:03Yeah and I felt like that's something that I've definitely developed he's obviously an unbelievable player and very mature for for his age and you can see why he's got to where he is but that's why I feel like I'm I've improved because as soon as you cross that right line you can you can be a different person on the pitch and off the pitch and I feel like you need a little bit that nasty side I touched on earlier I'm not this big aggressive player that's gonna you know be elbowing people and throwing people around but you can have that winning mentality that nothing's going to get in your way as soon as you cross that that white line i think also this is probably quite a comfy position for you because i think that you're still i think people still underestimate you because of the story that you've gone on does that does that resonate with you when i say that yeah it does i feel like people have started to to talk about me more this year um and also profile wise my agent's always saying to me oh we need to push you profile wise and stuff but i'm i'm always like no it's fine i don't care about social media or what him or her say i just i want to show you know my teammates and my boss as long as he's picking me that i was happy um but now i feel like i you know i deserve to be talked about because i've i've i've done well and I'm only going to get better and get to the levels that I know I can.

54:26So what would it mean then for you to put on the England jersey and represent your country at a major tournament? It would be unbelievable. I've not had that experience of tournament football, you know, especially for your country. You know, we play in competitions in our club and stuff like that, but represent your country is one of the biggest honours and especially where the country at the moment, you know, the squad, the players that are there are top and the season I've had personally. And I feel like there's no better time for me to do that. And you remember at the very beginning when you said we were in the Exeter Academy and Man United came in for one of the players and it made you all think, wow, have you thought about what it would mean for all of those young male and female footballers at non-league and League Two academies across the country to see you playing for England in the summer?

55:21Yeah, I feel like it would be a big inspiration for them. They would use it as motivation and that would fill me with pride, you know, that people look up to me and want to use me as their, I don't know, their icon to look up to, I guess. Yeah, that would fill me with pride and hopefully I can do that. And when you stood in line and you're hearing the national anthem play, where does your mind take you to? Just my family watching. Each time it comes on, I get goosebumps. I'm stood there and singing the national anthem and I've got goosebumps. It's one of the best feelings. Yeah, and one that I relish really.

56:12I love it when I go out there and, yeah, it's stuff that you've dreamt of as a kid. So to be able to put on that shirt and play at Wembley singing the national anthem is right up there. Love it. Ready for some quick fire questions? Let's do it, yeah. Okay. Three non-negotiable behaviours, the sort of three behaviours that really matter to you the most. Integrity.

56:41always treat people how you'd like to be treated nice

56:47and then just be true to yourself what's your biggest strand and your greatest weakness my greatest weakness isn't probably too kind my greatest strength is probably being doubted who's the best player you've gone up against in the Premier League and why? Thiago Silva. Just so experienced. He always... It's like he always knows your next move. Yeah, it's just... Yeah, very difficult to play against. Always knows what I'm going to do next. So, yeah, I'd say him. What's the best piece of advice you've ever received and why? It's from my mum, actually. she says not to burn a bridge on the way up because you never know when you may need it on the way down which plays into the kindness thing again right?

57:43exactly yeah and by the way I think having kindness as your greatest weakness is the greatest weakness that you can have right? if that's what it is if you go back to one moment in your life Oli where would you go and why? when I'm scoring goals it's when I'm the happiest and I'm always chasing that edge so my favourite goal this year was Arsenal so I'd probably go back to that moment when I see everyone cheering and yeah, I'll go back to them. It's my favourite memory this year. You are an icon for lots of young footballers watching you. What's the one piece of advice you'd offer them? To work hard and enjoy it.

58:21I feel like if you keep working hard for your goal that something will click and there's no way that you can not make it if you do everything you can to get there and then enjoy the process along the way even when there's, you know, even when it's difficult and you think times aren't going for you, then just keep going because when you do get it, it's a lot sweeter. Listen, thank you so much for that conversation. Thank you for having me, guys. Cheers. Thank you. We loved it. Thanks a lot.

58:53Damien. Jake. A conversation that needed to be had, one that he should be proud to have had, And one that actually we should celebrate that, you know, starting at the bottom, grafting your way to the very top is something that we can all relate to and something that we should talk about more. Yeah, I mean, the Premier League should be inordinately proud of someone like Oli because he is the everyman. He offers hope to everybody, every young person watching the sport to feel that that could be them if they were prepared to work hard and squeeze every percent out of themselves. And I think he doesn't need to work hard to show us that he's a really proper guy, like a nice guy, a caring guy.

59:38I mean, the couple of bits that really stood out is when we asked him his strengths and his weaknesses and he said, my biggest weakness is unkind. My biggest strength is sort of being underestimated. And I love that, that he balances really nicely the fact that you can be an empathetic, kind, understanding, caring person, but you can also deliver at the same time and i think for too long we thought that people who are can be vulnerable and can show emotion must therefore have weakness but that's no longer the case yeah and that was the bit that stood out for me as well jake that it's often referred to in group psychology as the dissenter the one person that's prepared to go against the grain and challenge the group thing that can happen and i think there's a real courage in what ollie demonstrates there the willingness to say well i'm not ashamed to cry or i'm not ashamed to be kind to somebody or i'm not ashamed to tell people how i really feel and i think you can only do that when you're comfortable with yourself and authenticity and integrity like the very heart of that guy and it's also a footballer at the absolute top of his game who is happy to come on and talk about working with a life coach sharing his feelings and his emotions and the value that gives him and at one point he said you know we spend hours a week working on our physical prowess but nothing on our mental prowess and that needs to change well you asked that very question i remember to max whitlock when max spoke to us about the challenges that he'd had with his mental health after the last olympic games and you asked him how many hours he worked in uh in the gym and he said 35 and you said how much of that is spent on the mental side of youth game and he said zero.

1:01:17Ollie's again he's given us an example for so many of us that this is an area that is pretty much untapped in terms of the potential it can offer us. Thank you mate. Thank you mate, an absolute privilege. Well that's it for today. I have just one ask of you and it's to share this episode with somebody. Think of someone you know that either loves football or maybe they're at the start of their journey, maybe they're struggling on the journey. Let them hear what Ollie's been through, the highs, the lows, the challenges, the self-doubts, and it might just be a game changer for them. So please share this conversation with just one person and make a difference to their life.

1:01:54Remember, stay humble, curious, and empathetic, and we'll see you for plenty more from High Performance.

1:02:42Transcription by CastingWords Think it, build it, scale it. All with AI on Wix.

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