Phil Heath: Real fulfilment can’t be bought, but it can be earned (E250)

0:28Watch it early on the High Performance App. I left no crumbs on this plate and I ate all day long. That is Phil Heath and this is High Performance. You know what, if you looked up inspiration in a dictionary, I think you'd find those two words, Phil Heath. He's the seven times winner of Mr. Olympia, which is the world's greatest bodybuilding competition. He's tied on seven titles with a certain Arnold Schwarzenegger, but there's so much more to Phil's story. He grew up in a challenging part of Seattle. His dream of being a pro basketball player was dashed, leading to some deep depression and some really strong mental health challenges.

1:05Yet from that low, he built something remarkable. But I think the most remarkable element is actually nothing to do with exactly what he did with the elite sporting talents. I think the true magic with Phil is how he's done it. It's his mind, it's his vulnerability, It's his honesty, his wisdom, his humility, his advice. And you're about to hear all of it because it's all right here for you as we welcome the incredible seven times Mr. Olympia, Phil Heath, here on High Performance. But before we get going, here's a quick word from our valued and brilliant sponsors who allow us to bring you this content for free.

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3:53Phil, thank you very much for joining us. Thank you. So, seven-time Mr. Olympia, tied with the legendary Arnold Schwarzenegger. What do you believe high performance is? Oh, man. A relentless pursuit. you know giving yourself permission to be the your most optimal self but doing it while being your most vulnerable self because it requires all of that you know being in the darkness you know but recognizing the light within to navigate through that darkness and that's where you meet performance at its highest level please tell us what vulnerability has done for you? Allow me to know who the hell I am.

4:45Understanding that life is not perfect and it's easy to say, but it's hard to overcome. And understanding that that sense of entitlement cannot coexist. Just because you show up for work every day, just because you give it your best, doesn't mean that you're going to make it. you know like in my life you know becoming a basketball player you know getting that college scholarship and things not panning out to what my ultimate goal was my dream was to be oh I want to play in the NBA and this and that to then having that not take place and then becoming extremely depressed and not realizing that there is life after this and then fortunately bodybuilding shows up and then I just recognize that and run with it like hell you know that I think that was truly blissful now sitting sitting here now I can be like man that's a really cool thing that happened but how many times do we walk through life and you know we're in our current status and just sit there and bitch and complain not realizing that there's a new chapter waiting for us, but we've refused to even turn the page on the last one.

5:59And was there a particular moment then that forced you to recognize you needed to turn the page? Oh my gosh, like when I realized that you're not getting playing time, Phil. You're not getting the minutes that you thought you deserved. And during that time, other players are now getting better than you. And you have to just come to grips with, they're getting better, but even if they're not playing well, you're still not getting in. So the coach is just not comfortable. So what positive things are going for yourself? Well, you get a great education. I met one of my best friends in the world who I'm still great friends to this day.

6:42And just saying, you know what, let me work with some numbers. So I went to college initially for computer science and general business. I later on changed from comp side to IT in business. How many millionaires, I literally looked this up. I was like, how many millionaires are at Microsoft? There's like 300 or something like that. And I was like, how many jobs are in the NBA? Well, less than 300 per year. There was only like at the time, like 340 players. So I'm like, wait a minute, there's probably more millionaires at Microsoft than there are an MBA at that time. I probably should be going to class and studying and getting better.

7:22And what's funny is I didn't get any of those jobs, but it put me in a better frame, mindset of saying, okay, basketball isn't working out. What do I have in front of me? Get your education, take advantage of this situation. You're not paying for school. The school that I was going to is the University of Denver. It's a very prestigious school. It's like the Ivy League of the West Coast, so to speak. And back then, we're talking about in year 2000, it was like 48 grand a year. Now it's like 70. So, you know, I mean, it's very pricey. I come from a very underprivileged area of South Seattle where no one got recruited as a student athlete to that university.

8:08So what does that mean? This university just invested money into Phil Heath. I should probably take advantage of that. But this was obviously a change of mindset, right? Because if you're happy to share it, I would love you to share with our audience your initial reaction when you got cut from the basketball team and you were no longer a college athlete. About halfway through college, I wasn't getting the playing time. I got in a really nasty, dark place, decided that the only way of overcoming this was to run around campus and just run after games, like get a workout after games and running, crying, running, crying, and then realizing that I'm not able to get over this painful experience.

8:57And I didn't have any family nearby or close friends nearby to communicate this stuff to, nor did I feel comfortable talking to my coaches about how I was feeling because I just ultimately felt like they didn't give a shit. it. So I decided to, you know, think about death and suicide. And through that, like I said, it was very dark. And, you know, I was definitely into alcohol and not drugs or anything, but just more of that. And that brought a lot of nasty demons out. Worst thing a person can do is just cope with alcohol. And I learned that pretty quickly. And having to acknowledge that, wow, both sides of my family enjoyed their drinks, right?

9:41So that's probably not going to solve this. And when I was wanting to commit suicide, laying in the street, hoping that someone would run me over, that's pretty sad. So the blessing with it is that I'm here, right? And the blessing is that that didn't happen and I was able to flip it and say, you know what? That was very stupid. it. Don't do this anymore. Love yourself more. And it's going to be hard. It's going to be hard to change your identity now because at that time, you know, I got a former high school teammate that's, you know, first round, you know, draft pick in the NBA, making all this type of money, taking care of his family.

10:23I want to be able to do that, but you got to do it in a different way. Now you have to do it through the education process. You got to do it by going to class and being a model student and still being a part of this team. How can I be a part of this team? be a great teammate. Push your guys in practice, making sure you hold them accountable by being first in all the drills. And if the coach wants to play you, that's on him. But you're always going to be ready, which in fact later allowed me to develop a high level of perseverance, I would say, and resilience to where it got reapplied in bodybuilding, where you must be your own first.

11:00We talk about being a self-starter. I became that during those painful moments of saying, you know what? If I want to be a part of this team, I got to get myself up. I got to maintain these guys. But then when I got away from my team support, I was like, this is easy. All I got to do is just show up to the gym and show out, lift these weights, eat this food directly how it says, do the cardio. This is right up my alley. and I'm going to really maximize this. And having that second chance, right, I think is something that I could have easily wasted, I think. I could have easily been in a dark path and just said, okay, well, I got some really good genetics and, but, you know, it's going to require a lot of work and I'm still not over this basketball stuff and just not really put my best foot forward.

11:46No, no, no, no, no. I went ahead and just said, F this, man. I'm just going to have, because I had so much fun training and because it didn't have anything to do with baskets. It had to do with like me spotting you or encouraging you and you encouraging me and us going to eat together and, you know, talk guy talk and, you know, give each other a hard time and stuff like that. It was a very prevalent playing hoops too, but just not without a ball, you know? So it was great. You know, I thank God that I wasn't an NBA basketball player. Really? Yeah. Because I would have, because here's how I mapped it out.

12:23If I would have played in the NBA being 5 '9", how long does a 5 '9 guard play? First of all, there's not many of us around. So you got to go by some data. Let's just say it was eight years. I would have been retired at 30 years old with probably not the same millions as some of these other bigger names. I would have been the average guy. I would be working anyway and never really doing my true calling. So I thank God for that because I'm like, if I would have played even overseas, like in the Greek league, you know, the Italian league, made some money, traveled the world, seen some ladies and all that stuff.

13:06But then imagine this, you play in those leagues for, let's say, six to eight years. Now you're going in your late 20s, maybe early 30s. And now it's time for you to get a real job. You now end up working for the same person you graduated college with. and now they're your boss yeah that would suck that's what was playing in my head i'm like so i was trying to do the math and like be try to be realistic at 23 years old it was very difficult but i think i made it make enough sense to where i didn't have any regret see but it's a fascinating way of viewing the world as you did and it reminds you of that phrase that you used about you play life with your eyes yes would you explain a little bit about what you meant by that yeah um And when I was a young boy, I was told by a coach, say, play life with your eyes, son.

13:58And when you're playing hoops, right, you're supposed to go from dribbling like this with your head down to dribbling up to do what? To see the floor. How often do we see the floor in life? We don't really see what's really going on, especially now with the phone. People like almost get, how many people probably get ran over by a vehicle? Or trip and fall, you know, or get mugged because, you know. Or just miss life. Or just miss life. So playing life with your eyes is also a term that I use by recognizing other people's mishaps and mistakes and learning from them. So then you don't make that same mistake.

14:38And then understanding that as long as I got my head on a swivel and I'm like, okay, I can observe this. the things that I consume, the things I listen to. Okay, I see what's going on. I see what's going on in the world today. I see how people interact with one another. I see how this husband and wife don't even look at each other at a really nice restaurant because they're too busy on their phones. I see how they allow their child to just sit there with an iPad for God knows how long. They don't even talk. Families on vacations. Five-star hotel vacations. No one talking. No one interacting. No one laughing.

15:14Huh. And then when I'm doing it, I have to snap myself right out of it and say, nope, I'm not doing that. Or, hey, I've seen this guy who had all the potential in the world. And a basketball player came to my mind as a kid by the name of Len Bias. And this guy was like Michael Jordan, probably LeBron James before LeBron James, right? This guy was better than Michael Jordan, I believe, at the time. Got drafted by the Boston Celtics, right? the night of his draft night. I guess one of his friends decided to give him some white powder. And yeah, he did one time. This guy was a genetic specimen. Like no body fat, just that guy.

15:52Like let's say LeBron James in the early 80s, right? Guy we never seen. Does it one time and dies on the spot. And I remember thinking about that as a kid. I was like, okay, make sure you also play life with your eyes with the people who you hang out with and what they do. and understand that it's the company that you keep. So you said you grew up in South Seattle. Yes. Quite an underprivileged area. Yes. So what did you see or experience that you feel shaped you to go on the pathway that you did? Oh, I had friends who, you know, were into drugs and at an early age, you know, 12, 13, you know, gateway drugs, marijuana, stuff like that.

16:33Next thing you know, they're into opiates and other things. I remember having a security guard at our high school get arrested for distribution of crack cocaine. I mean, how does that happen? I remember seeing two girls. One of the craziest things growing up was like the last day of school. Last day of school, he and I had been looking at each other pretty crazy all year. But the last day of school, we can get in the fight and not get suspended because they're going to summer. So imagine us getting into it. So I remember these two girls, they got into it in the middle of the year. And then at the end of the year, it was a bad fight, right?

17:16I mean, they really had to get separated. Come the fall, they both are back. They get into it so bad that they both get sent home across the street where there's a project development. it came back and next thing you know, both families are now in the school parking lot fighting. We can see it through the windows of our history class. I still remember it. And I laugh because I'm just like, this is how ghetto our freaking high school was. This is crazy that they were trying to get into the school and take it in there. So now we're on lockdown. Now the teacher's holding the door because there's no lock.

18:00He's holding the door. He doesn't know what's going on. And then we hear the chopper. That's the television station filming. Someone turns on the TV. So we're basically watching it here, hearing it there, watching people outside. They found hammer, all kind of different weapons, bats, all kind of stuff. Why? Why were we seeing this? It's because when you see people that feel like they have no hope, all there is is pain. And if they can inflict that on somebody else, they're going to do it. It's just the ugly part of society, right? They saw more opportunity and they could see that it was in arm's reach or even right here.

18:44They would probably choose that more than us bickering. But one of the other stories was one of my first high school dance. I was getting ready to walk in. I see two guys getting after it. Cops actually break it up. And the kid comes back and decides to pull out a gun and shoots the other guy six times about 10 meters away from me. And that was obviously frightening because after he did that, everybody scattered. But then he decided to just go like this. And I don't think he knew that he's now pointing his weapon at innocent people. And a couple rounds went off. So we're really scared now. So, I mean, I remember seeing that.

19:24And, of course, I ran like hell. And my parents at the time were obviously worried and said, hey, if you want to transfer schools, we're more than happy to do it. Because going into high school, as far as the Seattle Public School District, you pick the three schools you want to attend. And this was not my first choice. but my parents were like well this is the closest school to the house so if something were to happen like we could help you know like you're you know and immediately my parents were like we will pay for private school like 30 minutes away like we will bust you like we will figure this out right and I was like well violence is everywhere man like you just got to learn how to play life with your eyes know what's going on always be ready and of course being at 14, 15 years old, that's not something that you would expect to have in your heart, in your mind, but that's just a normal survival technique at that point.

20:26So among all of this, which is generated by a lack of hope, right? Yeah. You are someone with hope because you do believe in basketball. I mean, you're not the only one. Jamal Crawford, Nate Robinson came from this area. So what's the secret to retaining your hope when all around you is hopelessness? recognizing that you're not alone. You're probably not the first person to ever go through a hard time. I think a lot of time, while we feel alone in that darkness, we think that no one else understands me. Well, maybe. Maybe. Because it is your story. It's not exactly the same as someone else's story.

21:08But everybody's experienced death in their family. Everybody's experienced pain, love loss, economic hardship of some magnitude, right? Or they know someone. So for me, it's now, even speaking on this, I think you kind of have to think, I'm not the only one. Who else has gone through it, but then went through it and came out on the other side? See, we only talk about people that, oh yeah, I'm going through it too, brother. No, I want to know how you got through it and what you did. Give me the solution. The solution is keep going through it. eventually you are the Andy Dufresne and Shawshank Redemption and crawling through the madness right you know what I'm talking about you know the three football fields of crap yeah but what was on the other side freedom and if you believe in it it comes with a heavy price and that price it's very high but aren't your dreams worth it and that's how I think of it Is my dream not worth a high price?

22:15It has to be, right? Imagine if your dream was only worth a penny. That's no dream. My dream should be worth a billion dollars. It's my dream. So when you hit it, you're like, oh my God, I can't believe. It's like some imaginable number. It doesn't have to be money, but you know what I'm saying? Like something that provides like maximum fulfillment because happiness is one thing, but real fulfillment can't really be bought, but it can be earned. and it just derives from that real belief in oneself and being the light even when you don't see it. You have to illuminate that spark within. And look, I'm here to tell you, it's extremely difficult.

22:55And we're all here today knowing that at some point in time, we were probably told no, you're not good enough. or someone provided so much opposition that made you question if you're good enough. And you said, hell no, I am good enough and I'm going to just keep coming back. And to do that, though, requires, like I was thinking of the work of Daniel Coyle, a writer that has studied like where talent flourishes. And so you obviously flourish both in basketball and then in bodybuilding. And he talks about, first of all, the ignition stage. you've got to see there's a better future out there. But then he talks about the role of having a master coach, somebody that can encourage you and push you further than what your limits are.

23:43Who helped you do that, Phil? Man, I think growing up in the 80s was just an incredible time. Any young boy growing up in the 80s, you know, what were the movies like? It was a lot of action, right? You know, you had Stallone, you had Arnold, you know. You had wrestlers like Hulk Hogan. You had athletes like Gretzky and Bo Jackson and Michael Jordan, this guy named Michael Jordan, right? It was back when the Olympics was like a big deal. What was that derived from? Competition. Competition was key. People had pride for their country. People had pride for themselves. It wasn't just the name on their back.

24:23It was the name for their country or their business or their family. I was also around a lot of strong men. from my gym teacher, Ron Howard, who was a former tight end for the Dallas Cowboys. Being 13 years old, seeing your gym teacher with a Super Bowl ring, and he's telling you what to do, I think you're gonna listen. But not everybody did, right? Yeah, yeah. But for me, I'm like, I kind of like that. And you know what's crazy is that he's still alive to this day. His hands are like this. You're wondering, like, how is his hands like this? from catching that ball back in the day and getting hit right or getting his fingers jammed when he's trying to block someone and i remember seeing a picture of him and you can google it it's ron howard american football player there's a picture of him standing on a beam thousand feet up back then there was no million dollar athletes in football So he had to get a job after season was over.

25:32He was actually one of those construction workers on a floating bridge from Seattle to Bellevue, Washington. He was doing the work. So he knew what hard work meant. So I understood that firsthand. And I've been very, very blessed with having not just Coach Howard, but then I still call him Coach. Coach Bethea, Mike Bethea, still at Rainier Beach High School. He still coaches these kids. and, you know, wants excellence so bad that there was a time where we were supposed to be the number one team in the state, and it didn't work out. We got, it was like the game that was going to take you to the state championship, right?

26:17And a kid just happened to knock one of those jump shots down and sent us home, and I had a great game. It was my junior year, and I had a really good game. I think I had close to 20 points in the half, in one half. He was so disappointed because the team that was assembled was so great. It was almost like one of those two talented teams that just got beat, you know? And more like the USA team that got smoked in the Olympics that one time. Coach Mike was so distraught that he laid down on the floor just in disbelief. so long that like the other teams that were getting ready to play in the next round were running their warm-up lines around them and i remember seeing him in the uh in in the locker room thereafter and i said he's giving us a speech and i said that'll never happen again coach and he looked at me he goes sure man because he didn't want to believe it and i and i made sure that following year that not only did we win state, but we were third on the West Coast and we were 21st in USA Today National Poll.

27:31And we did it for him because we knew that he wanted it so bad. It's like these coaches that I had wanted excellence more than we did. And I didn't like that. Because I'm like, why should he want it more than me? It's my life too. Shouldn't I want excellence? Shouldn't I want to be a champion? And, you know, again, like I've just been around like a lot of highly influential men. I mean, right now, you know, I have a great friend in Tim Grover, you know, who that is, like, amazing man. He's worked with Jordan, you know, the late Kobe Bryant, Dwayne Wade, all these guys on the mental aspect of life, not just playing a sport.

28:08So I've had a lot of impressive people pour into me so then I can pour into other things of life, you know, whether it be bodybuilding or motivational speaking or just doing meet and greets at the Arnold Classic just this past week, you know. So just go back to Tim Grover. Tell us some of the lessons that he's taught you. Oh my gosh, just managing emotions. Knowing that those emotions can serve you, but you can't have multiple ones at the same time. If you're dealing with anger, then you better leverage it for a positive. If you're dealing with depression, leverage it. But you got to use these things.

28:45The problem is, is that we get stuck in our depression, in our confusion. we're not of sound mind so he he reminds me that to be of sound mind i mean you're a powerful force and you cannot be shaken and you're not supposed to if you're a true professional and always wanting more and it's okay because for me i mean i was i'm the type of guy you know you're going to win one Olympia and you're thinking, okay, obviously that was difficult, but what do you really want? Well, I want to win 10 of them. But if I say that, the world's going to talk about me in a negative way. And they did. I said, I wanted 10 Mr.

29:31Olympias. Now the internet. Oh, he's arrogant. He's this, he's that. I mean, a lot, but then it became like a lot of curse words and stuff like that. You know, just like he's, but all these people had opinions. And Tim is one of those guys that would remind me and say, that's what they're supposed to do. But what is your job to do? Your job is to get that 10. So don't even focus on it because they're nobody anyway. And, you know, I got seven out of that. And I wasn't afraid to go for it. And I think a lot of people can learn from that is that, you know, you have, again, give yourself permission to be successful.

30:10you know you would never first of all it's always hard to declare something as an adult because you do know you're going to face opposition and you remember and for me it'll it kind of hurt me at one point because you think if your son were to say dad i want to be a doctor you would never say oh no son you're not that you know when you ask a kid what do you want to be when you grow i want to be the biggest YouTuber ever. You would be like, oh yeah, you're dumb, you're this. He would never say that. You would say, no, that's great. But why is it when you're an adult? People are telling you that you can't achieve what you want to achieve.

30:47Half of the billionaires in this world didn't make it until they were 50. The major entrepreneurs didn't even figure it out until they were 40 after their first or second marriage. Things happened. They failed. How many people told them that they were morons? Ignorant, idiots, and this and that. But maybe they needed to go through those moments. They still had it in them. So again, with Tim, we have a great friendship. And that's why we align so well. Because he knows that I'm a guy that's always been coachable. He knows that I've developed that trust to where I can execute anything as long as I'm...

31:22Look, people do what they want to do. And that's something that my wife always says. And when I say I want to be a champion, that means I know what champion stuff is. let's talk then about becoming not just the champion but the seven times mr olympia you would never have gotten there though if you hadn't got up off the road yep so before we talk about the seven mr olympias are you happy to tell us what got you up off the road that night realizing that it wasn't uh it wasn't necessary you're just hurt you're just upset and you know it's funny I never even I talk about this in the film briefly but even sitting here with you guys I didn't hear anything I didn't hear the road I didn't hear a car I didn't hear a traffic light I didn't hear anything

32:27so knowing that I could be still and then realize that this isn't for me, damn right you get up. It's not your time, but it is your time to do something else. And then it just became recognizing what I can do. And then I had to trick my mind and say, I'm just going to be the best version of Phil Heath I can be. and like I said earlier, be the best teammate or be the best athlete. If I'm going to not play in a game, I'm going to give hell to these guys on the opposite side that are my teammates. They're going to get everything from me. I remember on one occurrence they put me on a 6 '5 guard and he was one of our star players.

33:19I'm thinking, you guys put me on him because we're supposed to run, they're supposed to run their offense and I'm supposed to run the opposing team's defense. screw that, I'm just going to play. And they were trying to run the offense through him. And I didn't let him get the ball for 10 straight minutes. And in that time, I'm talking about 10 real minutes. Within that time, I got four steals off of him and I dunked it on the other end. Now, three out of the four, here's what's funny. You steal the ball and you start dribbling it down and you dunk it. The coach is like, you know, come on back, Phil.

33:53And I'm already dunking it. And I bring the ball back. run the play again get the steal go ahead and dunk it the third time they're like phil like stop i'm like no the fourth time that same guy decided to run and try to defend it he figured it out this guy's still in the ball because he was like the the after the third time he's like come on man just let us run i was like i don't have to let you run anything i don't know you i don't care Who are you? He's actually my roommate. I don't care. It's kind of like Kobe Bryant going against Paul Gasol in the Olympics. You know, he hits him in the chest.

34:31It's like, I don't know you, man. I don't care about you. In fact, I don't like you. And on that fourth steal, I went down court and he jumped and I dunked on him. Brought the ball back. And then the coach now gets pissed. And I said, why are you trying to reduce my intensity, coach? What does it matter to you? So now I'm being a disruptor. So I was able to leverage that pain and say, you know what, this is how I'm going to do it. I'm going to at least have some pride. So if I'm going to use that sword, I'm going to go down swinging, you know, and that's how I do things. And, you know, I'm glad that I always kept that competitive spirit because I think sometimes, you know, when things don't work out our way, when other people do have control, we lose our spirit.

35:23you know when people tell you you can't do something and you believe it you don't want to do that to a child why so you don't want to mess their spirit up you don't want to yell at your dog a certain way because you don't want to ruin their spirits that can happen as a young adult it can happen as a grown man grown woman someone can tell you something it could ruin you and it's going to happen it's probably going to happen at one way or the other you can't hide from it but you can prepare for it because you know who the hell you are and you do the work and you never say die. You just keep coming back.

35:56And when they tell you, come on, Phil, come back, you say, no, stop me. And I was able to use that. Now I'm getting fired up right now because I'm remembering this and I'm like, because now I can't dunk anymore. But I'm thinking about, yeah, I was able to use that. And then going into the Olympian, when people would say, oh, oh, you think you could do it again, I'm like, these guys have no freaking clue how hard it was for me to get here in the first place. Now that I'm here, oh man, you guys are screwed now. Because you don't know what I had to do to be here. And now that I'm here and you provide me opposition, you haven't done the self-work of how to get out of your own hell and your own darkness.

36:40I'm going to eat you alive.

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38:51So if there's anyone listening to this film that is in their own hell at the moment, as somebody that has imposed their will on life in general, what advice would you give to anyone listening how they can do the same? You really have to try to be as still and as calm as you can. And allow yourself to feel that pain.

39:17Even what I'm doing right now. You have to be able to breathe. Do you still feel it? Yeah, sometimes. You have to be able to breathe through it. Because it's heavy on the chest sometimes. You try to remind yourself, like, man, that hurt. Okay. Breathe. Self-check. Am I good? Yeah, I'm good. I think when we are not able to be within our body, we go into this fight or flight response and that's just all ego. We really do function out of that majority of the time, especially when opposition arises, right? But if we're within our body, we have more consciousness. So if we have more consciousness, we realize that the alchemy of life, playing life with our eyes and realize there's more opportunity in front of us and acknowledging the fact that there has to be something for me in this universe.

40:06There has to be. It's too damn big. It really is. There's too many, you know, oh, my girlfriend broke open. There's more women. Oh, he broke open. The guy hurt me, cheated on me. There's more men. There's more partners in this world. Oh, this job, it sucks. There's another job or create your own. Oh, this guy talked trash about me online. Well, don't focus on him. Focus on the likes that you do have and say thank you and be in gratitude. And do this. And I just, seriously, people may think, no, legitimately do this. And it may come out, but that reminds you that you're alive. So if you're alive, then what can you do?

40:51Because you know good and damn well someone else is not. And they're doing this and they know they don't have any time left. So don't you dare take this for granted. Because when this is done in this area, wouldn't you know wouldn't you love to have a really cool story but to know that you met it and you met yourself and you can meet your fears and for anyone listening it's more like if not for you meet your fears so then you can help your kids meet theirs because we got a lot of false prophets out there right i'm an expert at this to what to what degree how many layers of deep have you gone and it's tough but if it was easy everybody would be great but you do have greatness within so you have to remember all those things you have to remember you got to wake up in the morning and realize even though being out here there ain't no much sun out here now what I said today I was like man grey skies this is now I was like wow I grew up in Seattle and grey skies all the time and now I can do what?

42:03Oh, that's nice breeze. Breeze feels nice. It's not super cold. Everything's good. Wow, get to go meet with some people today, go share my life. Do I really care about the gray skies now? No. So you're trying to see something positive. I think a lot of the time with this world, we focus on the negative first. When Les Brown said, eat the dessert first. I mean, man, that goes with life. And the dessert is knowing that you're alive. That's the dessert. Oh, I love that. Eat the dessert first. How do you feel then when you see people and you know that they're living in this world of self-imposed limitations?

42:47Because it's hard out there for people. There's so much negativity. Everyone's out to tell us we have no power. We have no self-control. We're not worth doing amazing things. you got to close your eyes and actually dream you got to dream harder you got to dream harder would you've won the seven mr olympias without the dream no you got to dream harder and you got to man i used to drive to the gym just like everybody else, right? And I'd have two different routes. One route, just take the motorway, get off on one exit, boom. Other way through the city. The city takes a little bit of time. Cool thing about taking it through the city, I had to take this one route that I always drive by a cemetery.

43:36Now, why would I drive by a cemetery? What do you see there? You see headstones, this, that, and the other, but who else do you see? You see family members, See friends. What are they doing? Paying respects, right? See people playing the guitar. I've seen people with balloons, flowers. I've seen people with television sets outside. People outside with newspapers just sitting there chilling. We're all going to be in that dirt at some point. So I reminded myself every time I was kind of feeling some type of way about the commitment of excellence. Drive by there. How do you want to be remembered, Phil?

44:14because that's where you're going to be. If you don't live a good life, maybe no one will even care. No one will visit. Recognize your opportunity, Phil, by pouring into yourself so you can pour into others, and then you can be remembered. So then they can go get theirs too. Because I know for a fact that we all went by a cemetery of Steve Jobs. You're like, man, that's Steve Jobs.

44:43that's jimmy hendrix

44:48that's kobe bryant that's mlk

44:55that's the queen all these people had a story so i had that gratitude of knowing that like i have an opportunity and i want my i want my legacy to be something of value so do you want people to say in years to come when they say that's where Phil Heath is buried. I recognize the fact that I've already arrived in a certain space to where I can be remembered, but it's going to be more than just a bodybuilder because it's not going to say seven times Mr. Olympia Phil Heath. It's going to say Philip Gerard Heath. That's all it's going to say. And I have the opportunity to transcend that bodybuilding stuff into something greater than that, a massive contribution of just being a man that just loves people, that wants to help other people, especially men.

45:39to get out of their own fear, to be empowered, to be their own champions for their kids, for their families, for their loved ones, for their communities. And I'm not just saying this. I'm being dead serious. You have the opportunity and you have to recognize I earned that dirt. I earned that spot. I earned my spot. And I want it to mean something when someone walks by it, that they could say, you know what? Holy smokes. Babe, let me tell you a story about Philly. because I think, man, people just want help. If that can make someone, you know, happy, then I'm going to do it. So why do you want to do this then?

46:20Because I see the drive of Mr. Olympia. You know, like it's showing that you can be the greatest. It's, we call it peacocking over here. I don't know whether you said this in the States, being a peacock. Like, look at me, look how amazing I am. I see that and I understand it. But this desire now to lift up other men. Right. Where's that come from and what's it about? Because of where my life was. All I wanted was someone to help me. And I had coaches that helped me, helped me see my potential, helped me see my future. Even while I talk about this, I'm like, wait a minute, Phil, you've been a state champion.

46:58You got a scholarship, saved your parents a ton of money not having to pay for college to a place that they could have never afforded you an opportunity to then have a couple friends that wanted to see you succeed in bodybuilding, to have a sponsor, Joe Weider, to have a friend of Jay Cutler that introduced me to Joe Weider, to then get paid to be in a magazine. What do you mean paid to be in a magazine? Paid to work out. What? I get paid to work out. I get paid to eat food. I get paid to take supplements. I get paid to poke. I mean, a little ass trunks, but I get paid. I get paid to do these things.

47:35I should be so high on life so high on life that I just want to pour into other people I should just let everybody know that like man life is worth living I was in the dumpster I was like in the mine and I turned it around and I want you to get yours no matter what and I will say this you know I was nicknamed the gift right and everybody's like oh it's like you know he's got the God giving genetics and this and that he's just he could just do anything no I had to use those genetics just like if you're a pianist You got to use that skill to be the best. The problem with most people is that they don't realize they're the hero in their own journey.

48:11They are the superhero. But what does that mean? You got to meet yourself. Luke Skywalker got to meet himself. Every one of them, Neil had to meet himself. These guys have to meet themselves to become who they're supposed to be. So my whole thing is through bodybuilding, I have a level of proof through my story. that can't be fabricated, right? And we just acknowledged earlier that everybody's an expert online. So all these experts, they can't compete with that. That's just beyond, I'm just, that's me doing that. Yeah, you can't. But with that, I get to help you. I didn't come in here with a tank top on, saying, oh, look at this.

48:56We're not talking about that. We're talking about - We've not even spoken about bodybuilding. Exactly. We've been here for an hour. Because this is where we gotta be to even do that in the first place. You're only going to get so far anyway. What did Bruce Lee talk about? He talked about the mind, the emotional intelligence. What does Tim Grover talk about? The mind. It's the mind and the emotions that get in the way of our true calling. So how do you answer the call to greatness when you don't know who the hell you are? Like, how does that work? It doesn't. So you got to get out of your own way, but you got to do the work on yourself.

49:28You got to do the self audit. And who wants to do that? We already know what a tax audit looks like. Like financial audits suck. It's deep. It's dark. You know, you have a CFO that does that. You're going to find some stuff. They're going to be like, hey, listen, like you shouldn't have done this. And you may be embarrassed. Oh, man, that person over there is robbing you. But where are you robbing yourself in your own audit? So before we move to our quickfire questions. Yeah. If someone is listening to this now and they need to do a self-audit, what's the very first thing they should do? Submit.

50:04submit and be okay with it. Whatever comes out on that table and start journaling all those things, all those patterns. And you realize a lot of those patterns do not serve you. On one side of a sheet of paper, you have the dream and what it's going to provide for you. On the other side, you're going to have, so you have the dream and all the things it's going to provide. On the other side, you got the work. and then you have to put a plus by everything that you're actually doing on that side. On the work side. Yeah. If you're not doing the work, then it's a minus.

50:46So if you're not doing the diet, that's a minus. So how are you going to get to the goal, the dream of being Mr. Olympia? You can't do that. Oh, you're out partying and drinking and smoking and this and that. No, that's not. So therefore, you're kidding yourself, right? We don't want to kid yourself. So then maybe this dream ain't for you, right? Maybe being a podcaster ain't for you. Maybe being a doctor ain't for you because you clearly aren't able to do the work. So let's go find, it's like a guidance counselor. Based on these scores, we think that based on this, you're going to do these jobs.

51:21Well, I don't want to do that. Well, then you're going to have to change your patterns, son. So you've got to really put pen to paper and actually show is, are the patterns that you have right now equating success on these goals? Brilliant. Right, quick fire time. What are the three non-negotiable behaviors that you would love people who've just listened to this incredible conversation to take on board? Stop talking negative to yourself. Stop comparing yourself to other people on social media and start living your life and giving a damn about your own success more than anybody else can. What advice would you give to a teenage Phil growing up in South Seattle?

52:02If you want something you never had before, you better be willing to do something you've never done before. It's going to be painful, but on the other side of that pain is something magical, and you're going to see it as long as you're willing to walk through it each and every day. What's your advice for our audience on how to build strong habits? have a commitment to those commitments man really understand why you chose this path and be able to really really be passionate about it if you're not passionate about what you're doing and I get it like some people say well I want to be an actor but I have to pick up this trash right now okay and you pick up that trash the best you can because you're developing a certain level of work ethic and pride that when that window does open, it may be only this big.

52:59You're going to get right through it and you're going to see on the other side massive amounts of opportunity and abundance. But if you're not willing to do this work, why would the universe, why would God in the universe actually provide you this opportunity when you're not willing to do the work? If you've got to be the trash man, then you'd be the best trash man. You've got to figure this out. And live that life, man. I mean, live it. But most importantly, I have to say this. When you do see some moments of greatness being exhibited or you get the rewards, give credit to some people that helped you along the way.

53:40I think a lot of the time right now we're seeing a lot of people online that everybody's an expert and you hear all this advice, but they're never saying where they got it from. They're not saying like, hey, I had this great conversation this afternoon. And these are some takeaways from it. There's nothing wrong with giving someone props. It's like, you know, if you follow Tony Robbins, who does he credit all the time? Jim Rohn. There's nothing wrong with doing that. But I think people are, oh, I'm self-made. I'm self. It's like, you're not some Socrates that just, you didn't start in the beginning of society or earth and just figure this out.

54:15Like, you figured it out through someone else's pain. You figured it out by something you saw, playing life with your eyes. You figured it out by looking at someone's social media and figuring out how they did it. There's no problem of saying, yeah, man, I learned this from this person. I applied it. And man, I have proof it can work for you too. So when you get to the mountaintop, you can then for sure, and you better, I demand everybody, once you get to a certain level, you have to be in a contribution stage of their life. You have to pull people up. If you don't, you're an ass. You're just such a coward.

54:54You're just so self-centered and you're a jerk. Like you almost don't even deserve it. Because it really, like you should be giving your gift to everybody at that point. You know, that's just how I, and I get fired up about it when I see people that have all this success. And I'm like, I don't need to see on your social media that you're giving someone a dollar or anything like that. You know what I mean? I'm not that type, you know, like I kind of talk trash about that sometimes, but, but I want to know, like, you're willing to, to help someone in their darkness. And maybe it's not transactional at all.

55:29Like, but you have that in you because I think that's the way this world should be. Everything can't always be transactional. Sometimes it's just an exchange of positive energy. And I just keep walking. Hey man, nice to meet you, bro. I saw you lifted in a certain way. You mind if I help you real quick? This is what I'm thinking. do this this and this all right have a good day man feel he just said i'm like yeah see you later you know because i remember what it was like going to the gym not knowing a damn thing the final question your golden rule for living a high performance life the final message that you would like our viewers to hear from you you gotta cry it out you cry it out if you gotta deal with the pain you deal with the pain but don't stay there.

56:19You can't stay there for that much longer. You have to wipe that up and keep moving because greatness awaits. You only got so much time. You only got so much time. So you can't stay down. You got to look up and keep looking up until you get it all the way done. And then once you get it done, you smile like I am right now and you get one more. You're willing to do it again. You become the video game player in Call of Duty that wants to prestige over and over and over and over and over again. You're the one that wants the extra degree because you were destined for it. You have to not stop. You can't create limitations on your calling.

57:23And there's always a high score in life of every genre, of everything that we've seen, writing books or sports or whatever, but you got to try it. So for me, it was 10 Mr. Olympias. And thank God I said 10 because it made me focus on it and get it. And I got seven out of it. If I would have said three, maybe I only got one or none at all. Some people, I was just satisfied with this job. Your golden rule should be I'm going to get it all because I want to know that I left no crumbs on this plate and I ate all day long. I can't thank you enough. What an amazing conversation. Thank you, guys.

58:08Damien, Jake. It reminded me of the conversation we had with Johnny Wilkinson where we sat down expecting to talk about rugby for an hour and I expected with Phil to sit down and talk about bodybuilding for an hour and we hardly touched on the subject and I'm absolutely delighted that that's the case Yeah, it was so rich and just really quite profound, wasn't it? You know, just to hear almost the ultimate alpha male in his world talking about surrender and vulnerability and being open The moment where he looked at the two of us and said, eat dessert first. I think it's a brilliant line. And I think it's so powerful because I would include myself in the many, many millions of people that are waiting for a day till they can eat dessert.

58:53And that day often doesn't come, right? And when it does come, what if it doesn't taste great? And you've waited all that time. And I think just trying now to eat your dessert first, it's not selfish and it isn't greedy. It is... It's what you're on the earth to do, to enjoy it, right? It's a brilliant quote. Yeah, yeah, I loved it. And what also stood out for me was his two routes. You can either take the fastest route to get to your destination or you can take the slightly slower route that gives you just a reminder of your own mortality. That driving past the graveyard and thinking about what's my legacy going to be and therefore using that as a fuel to then go and do what you have to is really powerful too.

59:34And you know sometimes people say great things and you leave the interview thinking, I don't know how to action that in my life. He said all that. And then when he says, write down all the things that you want to be and want to achieve, write down all the behaviours that would get you there and then either put a plus or a minus next to whether you're doing them or not. How simple, how profound and how brilliant? Well, I remember a similar exercise when I was a kid. I remember somebody asking myself and some friends about, what do you want in your life? So not what do you want to do, just what do you want?

1:00:05and then you might say, oh, I want to have a nice house, I want to be able to go on nice holidays, I'd like this car, and at that age, it's materialistic. And then they got us to work out how much money do you think you'd need to achieve all of that, and then after that, they'd say, so what kind of career would you need to do to earn that kind of salary to be able to pay it? And then they basically boiled it all the way down and said, so what qualifications would you need? And then are you working hard enough to get the qualifications that move you in the right direction? because otherwise you're deluding yourself or not either change your dreams and your ambitions or change your immediate behaviours.

1:00:40And Phil was giving a really good example of that in the way that he said it. Start with your dreams and ambitions and then work out what's your daily actions to move you towards it. Any of us could do that today. That's great. Thanks for joining me on that one. Loved it. Thank you, mate. And that brings us to the end of today's show. Please, can you do one thing for me? Can you just ping me a quick note right now? You can find me, as you know, on LinkedIn, on Instagram, on X. And just let me know what you made of that episode. What was the one thing that really resonated from our conversation with Phil?

1:01:13I'd love to hear from you. Thank you so much for continuing to spread the learnings that you're taking from these shows. But most of all, just thanks for being part of our community. Remember to chase world-class basics. Remain humble, curious, and empathetic. And I'll see you soon.

1:01:33Thank you.

1:02:02gets to know you and the goals you'd like to achieve. You'll also get a designated academic coach who's with you throughout your entire program. Plus, career coaches are available to help you navigate your professional goals. A different future is closer than you think with Capella University. Learn more at capella.edu.