Playing Until 40 Comes at a COST: Ashley Young on the Brutal Reality of Football (432)

0:03You talk to any player that's played under him. As soon as I'd met the boss I was like, I know where I'm going. I said, son, when you walk in this building you're going to feel what it's like to play for Man United.

0:21You're either going to be a winner or you're going to be a loser. You either sink or swim, that's it. We had to win. I'm like a mentality monster. Well, I remember seeing a quote from Sir Alex years ago where he said, the next time the players were fighting, and at that moment I knew we were going to win the league.

0:50Ashley, welcome to High Performance. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Nice to have you in the chair. I want to start with a quote of yours, actually, where you said, Age is just a number. If you can get up and down the pitch, you can lead those around you. So this is about longevity, right? And longevity is a question that I know so many of our high performance audience are either struggling with at the moment or asking questions about, or they will in the future. So I think this is probably less about football and more about life. And I'd love to find out whether you think that you were as fit at 37 as you were at 27.

1:24And if you were, how on earth you managed to get yourself to that point? Was I? I think I got fitter. And the reason being, when I went to Inter Milan, and as crazy as it sounds, a lot of people have got stories about Antonio Conte and his weird and wonderful training sessions. I'd say the running that we did, literally, we could play on a Sunday and you knew on a Tuesday or a Thursday you were going to do some sort of crazy running. And that could be anywhere to take you as a specific of the running we did, it was, imagine a full length of the pitch. We'd do a seven minutes where it was 30 seconds on, 30 seconds rest.

2:06You literally went up and down for the seven minutes. That was a first block. 30 seconds at what kind of pace? 30 seconds. It's like, I'd say more than half, three quarter pace, basically. so it's a long fair stride 100 yards we'd do that as a block and then for 2 minutes you'd have a rest and you'd then do a 75 yard block which you'd do it was 20 seconds on 10 seconds off and you'd do that for 7 minutes you'd then have 2 minutes off and you'd do another another block of 50 yards which was like 15 seconds on 15 seconds off that was for seven minutes you then do a last block of 25 yards which was 10 seconds on 10 seconds off and then you'd think I'm finished now literally I'm finished absolutely finished there'd be people on the floor I mean you're looking at other people trying to help each other knowing that I've now got a block of six shuttles to do and that could have been just in the morning so we knew on a Tuesday we're doing a double session and you'd come out in the afternoon to then do a second part in the afternoon.

3:26Whereas everyone's knackered. Everyone's finished after that first block of running in the morning to then come out in the afternoon to go and do that running as well. For me, it was crazy. But I think that's what's given me that longevity to continue to the age of 40 where I got to before I decided to retire. Because it was so much, the load was so much that for your cardiovascular abilities just went through the roof? Yeah, they did. There was times where we used to go into games and especially out in Italy, there was a lot of teams that played man-v-man. So you've got to imagine that the physical demands on playing man-v-man are a lot.

4:08You've got to stay with the same person throughout the whole game. He used to say, just watch at 60 minutes what happens. and there were so many teams that used to come there, come to the San Siro and used to get to 60 minutes and it used to be like we used to fly that way and I used to go down and no teams could stay with us in terms of fitness and it was one of those things that he always, he was a person that wanted to test you mentally and you know, the running we did, it wasn't normal. Like it wasn't normal for players. Have you ever done it? Never done running like that. I don't think I've done running in that way since I was at Watford, my first club, which they used to set out a track and you just run around it basically like it was an athletics day because they used to say to you, don't bother bringing your boots.

4:59All you need is your trainers and you knew, yeah, we're just going to run here. This is going to be one of them days. So I think, like I say, a lot was said about Antonio Conte with the styles that he wants and testing people mentally and physically with the running we did. You know, I say I didn't like it. I don't think anyone enjoys running. It was one of them things that I didn't want to... Let's not say I didn't want to do it. I didn't enjoy it. But looking back, I think that's what's given me definitely the longevity to continue. Do you remember a moment in a game where you suddenly realised what this running had done for you?

5:39Because it's not overnight, right? This takes a little while to build up that fitness. Yeah, we played Atalanta away. And I remember I put the ball in a corner and we scored from it. I scored in the first half and I remember the second half just actually thinking, we are so much more powerful than what they are. afterwards, you know, speaking to some of their players, they were like, your fitness levels are totally different. And the manager then at Atalanta was saying that his players are so much more fitter than what we are. And even he went into Antonio Conte after the game and was like, I don't know what you're doing in your training, but you lot are so much fitter.

6:22And they're renowned for having so much fitness at Atalanta. So yeah, I definitely felt that, you know, we're so much fitter than teams. and it's a lot of tactical out in Italy, whereas in England it's totally different. But man v man and tactics are one thing. You've got to have good players as well. We have that as well in abundance of good players and players that actually wanted to play a lot more football, but it's Conte's way of wanting to play and he's won everywhere he's been. And he won with you. You won Serie A. I mean, what a lovely thing to put on your CV. That is especially, what would you mean, 34?

7:04Yeah, 34 at the time, yeah. What other things did he do to see if you were mentally capable of being in one of his teams? So there was times where you could go in the morning, say he was in at 9 o 'clock, say have breakfast at 10 o 'clock, we go out to train at 11 o 'clock. So all the boys are getting ready, preparing, no problem. we'd then get to, you know, probably like quarter to 11, and we'd be like, right, ready to go out? And we'd say to one of his first team coaches, is he ready to go? And he's like, no, no, he's not ready. So we'd send a team manager in to go and speak to him, and he'd come back out, and he'd be like, right, the manager said that we need to just go have lunch at 12.

7:48There was a hotel at the training ground. Go and rest in your rooms. We'll train at 2 o 'clock. Now all the players are looking around at each other going, but we've been in since 9 o 'clock. why and it was just one of them that he just wanted to test people to see if anyone was going to go and knock on his door if anyone was going to go and respond to him and there was a lot of players that had been there for a while older players that wanted to turn around and say things to him and they did in the end and they were the ones that then got shipped out they weren't there for long and it was one of them things that after a while you got used to it but I think because of the the way the team was the togetherness that there was for players.

8:31It's been one of the best dressing rooms I've been in for togetherness. And I think that was the way that the manager done things, the players stuck together and knew that sometimes it wasn't the right thing that he was doing or we didn't think it was the right thing he was doing, coming in so early and having to train late on. But it was the way that he went about his business. and I think if you ask the Tottenham players, the Chelsea players, it's been the same thing. He's had this blueprint the whole time and he's never changed. Like I say, when you're winning, you can't question him. There's a reason why he doesn't last longer than a year, two years at places and you realise this is probably the reason why.

9:16So I'm interested, because we talk often on the show about building culture and maintaining culture. So Conte can win, right? He wins leagues, he wins titles. He does exactly what you've talked about. He inspires a dressing room to come together in a way that you'd never seen and you've played in some amazing dressing rooms. But then it goes wrong. So what happens at that moment, do you think? I think that's the turning point of where players then start seeing this just is too much. Players start breaking down. There's so many injuries. I think even some of his own staff are not on board with what he's doing.

9:53but he's always had pretty much the same staff everywhere he's been so they're obviously thinking you know I've got to stay with him because he's a winner but players are players players will talk players will come together some players have got more status than others and I think that at the different clubs that he's been at they'll go above the manager to possibly the board to say no it's too much now I remember being in meetings and if we had lost the game we'd go back through the whole game and it was one of them where he'd stop literally every two minutes to say why did you do this and why did you do that he's asking the players we was in the meeting room for three and a half hours and as a player players have got a time span of about ten minutes it doesn't last long concentration it's like ten minutes and it's like he was losing players fall asleep in the meetings it was a disaster.

10:55So I think if you've got that for so many years you can't. It's not good because like I say then you've got so many injuries that then come into that as well. Not knowing for families especially staff. Us as players we come in and we do our hours. We go home. The staff will come in hours before us. The staff will leave hours after us. they're not seeing their family. Everyone's got children and stuff like that. So it's a hard thing to do and it's hard work. So I think that's the reason why that it won't really last longer than a couple of years. We'll be right back after a quick word from our partners.

11:38Hi, this is Becca Moore for The Girls Podcast. All right, a quick shout out to our presenting sponsor, Apple Cash. Summer is here, which means the group chats are already spiralling with festival and summer plans. And we all know the worst part of being the one who fronts the money for the passes or housing. That's why this year we're only using Apple Cash. It's a super easy way to settle up because you can do it right in messages. Just tap the plus sign to get started. And the best part is you can spend the money you get right away anywhere Apple Pay is accepted. Every payment is secure and protected by Face ID, Touch ID, or Passcode, and your transactions are never shared on a public feed.

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12:55It makes it even more impressive when you look at someone like Pep Guardiola or Jurgen Klopp that managed to find what Conte found which is the aggression and the togetherness and that spirit and the standards but then maintained them for a decade or more. I think that is the rare area in football management where you can get players to that level and keep them at that level? Yeah, I think so. I think that's the ones that are able to stay at a level for 10, 20 plus years. And I look at, for me, who I still call the boss, Sir Alex, to do what he did for so many years for that club was words saying unbelievable, incredible, don't do it justice at all.

13:45but on the flip side of where Conte was with dealing with players the boss knew every single player inside and out he knew family, he knew your friends he knew if you went out, he knew if you're drunk he had a way of knowing and keeping a squad together happy and to be able to keep a squad of 25, 27 players happy is a skill in itself. But the man management skills that he had was something I've never seen in another manager to the point of where you've obviously got the 11 that are going to play. Of course they're going to be happy. But it's the ones that are not playing that you need to keep happy, squad players that are not playing.

14:34He used to put his arm around players that he knew that he needed for three weeks down the line and say to them, son, I need you for this game. Make sure you're ready. And it was just a simple conversation like that. He used to work on a basis of his door was always wide open that you could always go and see him. And whether you wanted to see him about football, whether you could see him about personal problems, whether you wanted just to go for a chat, he would have a chat with you about everything. And it's the reason why I still, to this day, still talk to him, I'm still scared of him. He's just got this aura about him.

15:07I remember being in the car with my wife and it'd come off my phone and the boss was ringing and I literally said to her pull the car over and she was like what? Are you just going to answer the phone? I was like no no no I literally took a sip of water before I went to sweets just because he's he's just got that aura about him and I think you talk to any player that's played under him everybody will say the same thing he's got this aura the man management skills are incredible when I first met him to sign I met with my agent in a hotel in London and I remember walking in and thinking wow I'm actually going to meet the boss here this is incredible time for me I would say I was young at the time I walked into the hotel room and it was dark and I was scared straight away I remember sitting down on the sofa next to my agent and we was in there for two hours for the first half hour we talked about football and I couldn't even tell you what the conversation was because I was that scared that nervous for the next hour and a half i think my agent spoke about wine and horses and i literally just sat there in awe of of the man and i had met i had spoke to man city officials before right i spoke to liverpool before as soon as i'd met the boss i was like i know where i'm going like this is it i i know this is the man i want to go and play for because he's going to get the best that haven't me.

16:33And what do you remember him saying to you that made you feel like that or made your chest rise? I remember a conversation of being at a training ground and we was walking in. This was after I'd signed. I'd literally done all the medicals and whatnot. He met me at the front door and he stopped me before I walked in the door and he said, son, I'm going to tell you this. When you walk in this building, you're going to feel what it's like to play for Man United. you're either going to be a winner or you're going to be a loser. You win here it's unbelievable. You lose here we don't want to talk about that.

17:11You either sink or swim. That's it. He said if you've got that winning mentality you'll be a winner here. But if you haven't not many people will last there. And I literally walked through the door and I was like oh my god I better make sure I win. But I remember when I was working with one of your old teammates it's Rio Ferdinand, and we were talking about Sir Alex. And Rio was like, yeah, he said a couple of times Sir Alex came for me. But he would always go for youngie. Is that true? Like, he would feel comfortable, Sir Alex, calling you out? Yeah, of course. He didn't care who you were. If he had to call someone out, then he would.

17:51And, you know, I think I was on the lesser side of being called out by him. and when you know you want to talk about you know boots being kicked at people or bottles being thrown around dressed for them that's not a lie that's truthful but it just was the way that he is and he didn't really say too much or take too much of the training he left that to to Mick Phelan and Rene Mullenstein a lot but he had a his office overlooked the training pitches so at times you just knew that he was there watching you just saw the figure up in the window or if he did come outside you'd see him in the big jacket with his hat on or his hood up and he'd just sit there.

18:28But like I said, he just had this aura. And when he did want to go for players, he didn't use any choice words. He literally went full throttle. But it was one of them that you knew if you'd done something wrong, you was going to get called out upon. To a certain degree, he wasn't even needed to say it because us as players told each other. it was one of those things that you know when we was in training if someone weren't you know playing training at 100 % you was able to turn around and say come on like you're taking a piss now like sort yourself out and it was one of them that everybody each one of us you know called each other out there was and I'm sure Rio would have said there was there was times where you know there were fights but as soon as you walked off the training pitch and you got back into the dressing room it was all friends everyone talks because the public perception to players throwing fists on the training ground is that something's broken it's negative it's a disaster it's meltdown it's not that at all it's everyone at that time especially under the boss it's a winning mentality everybody wants to win and that is like we did boxes before training you didn't want to be in the middle but you was in the middle you weren't getting out so you were knackered going into training and you wanted to win we had a table of things that you know where you know especially on Friday we did like a young the old so the older players against the young players the young players never beat the older players never and if they did they would have celebrated but as older players you didn't want the youngsters coming up to try and beat us never never and it was like that like I say that the winning mentality it just spread throughout the dressing room and nobody, nobody wanted to lose.

20:22And a fight still seems extreme to people in the world of media, for example, right? Like I'm in. What would cause that? Would it be a player not putting their weight or? It could be anything from, you know, a player not training at 100%. It could be, you know, playing a small-sided game and, you know, even a small thing of not tracking a runner. It could be a tackle. you know it was one of them things that and when when I say there was fights yeah at times there was there was fists that were thrown but you know people would get in the middle of it or by the end of it people would just sort it out themselves and what would Sir Alex do?

21:02he wouldn't do a lot he'd be on the side like it's one of them things because he knows that the players that he's got have got that aggression that winning mentality you know you've got to have some sort of aggression it comes with it and it's not always going to be nice of course there's going to be tackles we played with Nemanja Vidic it's not one of them that's going to pull out of tackles everybody wanted to like I say wanted to win everybody wanted the same and when you're playing small sided games we had a group there that if you lost you knew about it like I say Rio is the loudest person ever if Rio won the whole training ground knew about it but if you lost everyone would make sure the Rio knew about it so it's one of the things that it's you know I've tried to explain it as you know it's a fight you know like I said there was fist thrown but it was like the norm at times it happens just because everybody wants to win everyone wants success and when you do have success you've got to go through things like that it happens and it happens you know especially back then at most training rounds.

22:15Well, I remember seeing a quote from Sir Alex years ago where he said, the next time the players were fighting and at that moment I knew we were going to win the league. And that sums it up, doesn't it? It's that clear. That is exactly it. Exactly it. For the boss to turn around and say my players are fighting. You know, you might not say physical, but it was like, when I say every day in training, it was, you wanted to win because you didn't want to know that other people were beating you. And I think that's taken And, you know, I think you're born with that. If you've got that winning mentality, you want to win.

22:51There's always a goal to achieve, whether that be trying to win the Premier League, whether that be FA Cup. There's always trophies, but there's also, you know, being in training and thinking, I don't want to lose training. I don't want to go home upset. I'm one of them that my family know. If I've lost in training, my family know exactly what's happened. and I hate losing. I'm the same with my kids. When I think it was my dad, he didn't just say, oh yeah, I'm going to let my kids win. We had to win and I think I've always grown up that way and I've been the same way with my kids. Of course, at times I might let them win but they've got to understand that you've got to work hard.

23:36You've got to work hard to get success and if you don't work hard to get success, it's not just going to be given. and it's not given to you on a plate. So you were competitive from an early age. Yeah. Which then leads me to think about how you dealt with what happened at Watford. So you were 15. Yeah. And you were told... I wasn't going to get a YTS, the scholarship. Yeah. And did they sugarcoat those conversations? No. Not at that time. It was literally like, so I sat in a room, me and my mum and the academy director, academy assistant, under-19s manager and the under-17s manager. And literally said that, you know, we don't feel you're going to make it into our first team.

24:20You're not big enough. That's pretty much it. We don't think you're going to make it into the first team. So we're not going to offer you a scholarship full-time. But we're willing, as we started it the season before with a player called Gary Cohen, if you want to stay here, we'll give you a part-time scholarship which meant I was going to go to school on a Monday, Wednesday and a Friday in Stevenage where I was brought up. On a Tuesday I'd go in in the day and train with the full-time boys and then train at night with the age group below.

25:03And I think at that time it hit hard. I'd been on Watford since I was 10 years old. I knew no different and when I was 12, 13 I had other clubs that wanted me but I was like no I'm at Watford I've been here I want to make sure I want to get into this first team and I remember going home that Saturday and sitting literally on the sofa I didn't speak a lot then which everyone will say now that's not possible because you speak too much but I didn't speak to my dad I literally sat there and it was a decision for me to make. Do I want to go back to Watford and show that they've got this decision wrong?

25:45Or do I want to leave? And it was basically my mum and dad said, listen, it's decision down to you. It's whatever you want to do, whatever you want to, if you want to stay, you stay. If you want to go, you go. They gave me an option to, if I wanted to play for the age group below the next day on a Sunday. So I literally sat there and by 10 o 'clock that night, I said to my mum and dad, I'm going to go and play tomorrow and I'm going to show them that they've got this decision wrong. And they were like, are you sure? And I said, yeah, yeah. And they said, listen, you don't have to go and play tomorrow.

26:18It's fine. We'll play a meal all the way. I was thinking, oh God, they're going to be massive. They're going to be big boys against me. But I just had it in me that I think I've had it for life. If people say to me, you can't do this, I'm like, watch me do it 10 times better. And I think from that day, the next day I remember going to play against Mill and we won. I scored two headers. So where they said I was too small, I don't know how it was happening. But I'm not the biggest now. I was tiny at that point. And I just know, coming off that pitch, I was like, this is going to be it. I'm going to turn and say to them, push me even further.

26:59Really test me now. So within that year, I was tested to a point of where I went and played straight away, 15, 16, played for the under-19s, bigger boys and whatnot. I bypassed that after a couple of months. I then went and played for the reserves, and I literally was playing for the reserves for the last six months of the season. And I was given my professional contract at the end of that season before any of the full-time scholars had been given theirs. And I've always said that throughout my life, if there's ever been a turning point in my career, it's then because I think that was the kick up the backside to say listen this is either going to go in your favor and this is what you're going to do for your career or you're going to have to look at something else and I only knew football it's all I wanted to do from when I was five years old I was always on a pitch with my older brother I didn't want to go and do anything else I was in school and the story of when I was I was in year 10 careers advisor sat me down what do you want to do after you finish school I want to play football she asked me again yeah but what if that doesn't work out what are you going to do I said I want to play football and then she asked me again yeah but what if that doesn't work out and like I said I didn't really talk back then I literally stood up and said you're not understanding what I'm saying I'm going to be a professional footballer and I walked out the door and it's crazy to think that I was 31 I think mad she walked past my mom and dad's house at the time i was going in and i stopped her and she went i was so wrong weren't i and i literally was like but you weren't to know like you weren't gonna know yeah yeah it's crazy i don't know whether you believe in like the power of the universe certain things happen to you for like that's almost like meant to be that you all these years later had a reminder yeah we'll be right back after a quick word from our partners you know when I was a kid, summer meant freedom.

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31:52And that was it. It was an incredible moment then. And I'm sure John McDermott, who works at the FA, he was the Academy Director. And he's always, whenever he's done any talks or whatnot, he's always said that my name has come up in every talk. And he's like, I got it so wrong. I got it so wrong. And he's even tried to apologize to me when I've seen him and I'm like, you don't have to apologise. How hard your job is to know a 15, 16 year old is actually going to get into the first team, it's difficult. I know that. I don't know what it's like to be a coach or manager. Of course, I don't know what it's like to be an academy director.

32:33Could I be able to spot a player that I think is going to be in the first team for 15 or 16? No, I don't think so. I could spot a player that I think it's going to be good. But if you say 15, 16, getting to the first team, maybe 18, 19, a lot could happen in that time. A lot could change. Players' hunger, will, could change whether they want to be in that first team. Injuries could come into it. There's so much. So I never, I never regretted or said anything bad about him. I didn't regret their decision. It just, like I say, it gave me the kick up the backside that I needed to then go on and have a career that I did.

33:10So if I took you back to the day before that and I could give you a choice, if you can go in tomorrow and meet the people at Watford and get a professional contract, or you can go through the pain that you went through, what would you choose now? I'd choose the route I went through. I definitely would. I wouldn't want, you know, of course I would have wanted a full-time scholarship, but to have it in the way that it turned out, like I say, of course there's been other setbacks throughout my career, but I always look back to this one that I say was the massive one that I was like, this is the one that I needed to kick on and go further from that point.

33:50because I think that at times when I was 14 like I said I was small when there was bigger kids that were playing I was scared of the bigger kids at times so I had a season under 14s, under 15s where I wasn't great at all because I was always scared about being kicked or getting injured so I don't know whether that played a part of where I wasn't going to get the scholarship there's so many factors that could have played into it but I know that that season definitely was a massive one for me and I wasn't at my best at all. I think it's a powerful story because we talk often on this show about the fact that we as human beings create a story that something is either good or bad, right?

34:33And it's actually neither of those things, it just is. And what happens next determines whether it's good or bad. Can you take us to a moment later in your career then where things were difficult for you and you had to remind yourself that you thought that was the end of your road and actually it was the beginning of something new and not to judge the moment that's in front of you or to be able to deal better with the challenges in front of you? I think there's been quite a few after the bosses' era at Man United with the different managers. But I think I look at the Euros of England in 2012. And that was a tough moment, obviously missing the penalty against Ely.

35:17us going out at the Euros with the team that we had was was a tough moment to to take and you know I think there was a lot of backlash from that it was you know social media had come about and things like like I didn't really take notice of social media but back then there was newspapers that you could read and you know it was it was mine and other Ash's cult that it was our fault so we missed the penalty that it wasn't everything else that we weren't great in the game and whatnot. It was just that. And from then on, I thought this could be it for me playing for England. And to put on an England shirt is one of the proudest moments of my career.

35:59To play for my country, to be able to say representing my country is incredible. To do it at a major tournament is something else. It is just, like I say, it's incredible. But to then, how I see it, I failed. you know, took a lot to come back from in terms of the way I thought, will I play for England again? Will I be selected again? Will an England manager want me after I've just done that? Did you feel you'd failed? Yeah. Yeah. Because I thought, well, if I score this penalty, we had a chance to go through. But I didn't. And it was like, I failed here. I have failed. and it was tough it was tough to take because it was then right when there's another penalty are you going to take one?

36:51Are you really going to be able to step up and take another penalty? I have done because I've got over that mindset of well it wasn't me why we failed of course I missed the penalty but there's other things that that accumulated to to us going out of tournament at that time so it's it's like I said a mentality thing that I think I've always had and I always say that I say to my son I say to family I'm like a mentality monster like if you say to me something can go wrong I'll turn it into a positive I think that's what comes with the longevity as well that when a lot of people will say hey you're too old you can't do it you can't get up and down the pitch anymore I'll be like alright cool watch me and I'll say that there's no one that will work harder than me especially in training I give everything I look back at my last training session at Ipswich I literally had every single one of the coaches come up to me we did a five aside and literally it was body on the line, I was throwing myself at the ball and scoring and assisting, it was just everything because I knew this is my last one I want to make sure that I do it the same way as I started that I finish.

38:15Like it's got to be the same and I always want to give my best in training because I know that if I come off that pitch and I go home after that, if I haven't given 100%, then I'm not doing myself justice. So it's always been that way. Had you already told your teammates and your coaching staff that you were retiring before that final training session? I had spoke to Kieran a couple months before and said that you know I was I was gonna gonna retire he had tried to talk me out of it quite a few times especially the last few weeks I literally said listen Kieran I can't do it to be honest it helped me because I went down on my hip in November had an injection and I've always said to myself if my body's saying you need injections, there's a problem.

39:13Like you need to think about retiring. Anyway, I got through to January and, you know, I need a hip replacement. I would say I need it in about 10 years' time. Do you need one? I need it sooner now, yeah. So in November it was like you need it in 10 years' time. I was like, okay, fine, no problem. I then got to January and I was due to have another injection which would have got me through to the end of the season just because I was like saying to the specialist I know it's painful I said if you can give me an injection that will see me through to the end of the season I want to make sure that I do everything I can possible to help the team just about a week before I'm about to get the injection I go down in training I'm like this is worse I know it's worse it's a lot worse I go and see the specialist and he's like yeah it's a whole lot worse and I'm like when you say a whole lot worse in November you said to me I've got 10 years before I need a hip replacement he said yeah he said you've probably got about two I said so it's a whole lot worse then and he was like yeah so that kind of what was happening with the hip then basically I'm bone on bone from all the years from overuse basically they've said overuse and the physios and the docs said to me especially this season have you had a problem with your hip before and I was like no I've not had a problem with it and they were like are you sure and I was like yeah they were like literally you're bone on bone there's no cartilage there he said that's where you're getting so much pain and you know from January to the end of the season I literally had two or three months where I couldn't train it was just that painful and I went and saw the specialist again and I said listen I'm not going out like this there's no way and he was like I don't really want to give you another injection he said because it's just going to weaken the area I said so are you saying I can't play football again and he looked at me and I said you can say it if you want trust me if I get an opportunity to be back on the pitch I'll be back on the pitch the last two months of the season I was training every day and he was like it's not possible you shouldn't have been out there training but because I'm like I say I'm one of them people that if someone says no and of course medically I don't think I should have been out on the pitch I made sure I was available for the last three games of the season.

41:39Obviously, we were in a position where we had to win the games and Kieran didn't want to, I say gamble. He didn't want to leave someone that was 100 % fit off the bench. I travelled with the team. I was with the team every week. Of course, we got down to the last game of the season and it would have been incredible to be able to say that I had come on the pitch for the last game of the season. but for me being able to train in the way that I did especially that week and then for us to be promoted on the last day of the season it was just fitting it just like you say it's one of those things do I believe in things that happen in the university I do yeah and I know that signing the club that year I said to him one thing I'm coming here I'm going to get promoted and that was that was all the conversation I needed with him so here I am need a hip replacement that must have been an emotional conversation though when a specialist turns around and says it's over yeah you know it was a it was a tough conversation because all I'd known for you know 22 23 years was football but I think because I I say going out on my own terms I kind of knew you know I'm 40 years old I'm gonna be 41 now I'm gonna be 41 have I done everything yeah I think I've done enough now to say I'm ready to retire I had started doing the the punditry stuff and you know different stuff with tv that you know I absolutely loved um like I say I talk a lot so uh it is it helped but you know so so doing that I think I was I was doing it through the season the last couple of seasons, so I was doing odd bits here and there.

43:32And being able to do more and more of that, like I said, it just excited me. And it helped that, and especially did say what he did at the time. Of course, at the time when I sat there, I was like, wow, this is actually serious. This isn't like just any injury. This is serious. And when the doc, I've gone really well with him, said to me, if you said to me about wanting to play again next season, I'd advise you not to. So, of course, it's not nice to hear, but I think because I had already started doing some of the work, the punter tree, it was like, right, okay, it's time to call it a day. And we've spoken to a number of athletes on this show who've been through exactly what you've gone through.

44:13And often they say the most emotional moment is not them being told. It's when they have to go home to their family and share that news. Can you relate to that? Yeah, massively as well. and I you know I want to say me and my wife we spoke plenty of times and my mum and dad you know they've been there throughout my whole career been there from the last day to start right to the end and even saying to them I'm going to retire like I don't think they actually believe me because I think they think I could go on for years and years but to actually sit down and say to them, that's it, I'm going to retire.

44:57They didn't believe it. I actually think my mum might have got upset about it. My dad, nothing phasing me, so laid back. But yeah, mum got upset. And I think on the week before, I was mentioning to my kids. And I think, in a way, I'm quite glad that I didn't play the last game of the season because I think that everyone was saying to me, are you going to be emotional? Are you going to be upset? And I was like, no, I'm fine. I know the decision. I know why I'm doing it. I think if I'd seen them in the stands upset, I think that would have then upset me. So I'm kind of glad Kieran didn't put me on the bench.

45:40But I know they did a few people and family did a video for me after the season and that was it. It broke me. the first few people to talk on there were my wife and my three kids and yeah it really got to me why? I think just because of seeing them upset you know they've been there like my son's 20 my daughter's 17 youngest is 8 they've been there throughout whole parts of my career to hear them speak about my career in the way they did to see the success that I had, to see when I was upset, to understand the different times of different clubs that I've been at as well. They've lived it. And they've had their own emotions attached to my career.

46:34So for me to hear them, hear their stories basically, living it, living life as well. Because as a footballer, you're concentrating so much on football. And I'll say that at times throughout my career, it was football first before family. And it was only as I started getting older, going into my mid-30s, late 30s, is when it was like, I've missed a big chunk of family life here. A lot of people talk about, it's football, you're getting paid this and you got this. to try and explain to people, you know, you miss birthdays. You can miss kids being born. You know, you miss being with family. When it comes to Christmas, you know, it's family time.

47:26Everyone gets together. You wake up, you might see the kids do your presents. You go to a hotel that night. There's so much that goes into football which people don't see. the hard work the things that you miss out on you know I remember my son's first birthday of course you know I was there when he was born his first birthday I was with him on the 21s and I said to the manager at the time Stuart Pearce is it possible for me to go back and see him on his birthday and he was like yeah yeah yeah of course it got to the night before and I said is it okay to go and he was like no you know and that's one of the things that people don't really see people don't really understand and you know because you paid all this money people think oh it's fine you've got all this money it's not that at all and I think one of the important things when you have to retire as all athletes do at a young age is to focus on the things that it gives you not the things that you lose so we had Yaya Torre on here recently and it was actually like I remember as you will him being like dominating the Premier League like I'm sure when you go up against him there was a bit of fear right this is Yaya Torre in midfield and he came in and he just looked glum looked a bit i said how's things he went bored and he felt lost right yeah he felt like and he was talking about management but almost in a kind of like management in a i need to get my career back i need to find what i've lost i wonder whether i wonder whether you have thought about the the psychological challenges and there will be some that come with the fact that you're not in pre-season you're sitting here talking to me you know you're not going to be doing the things that you've done to get yourself to those great highs.

49:08And you will never ever... Actually, I remember one of the saddest conversations I ever heard was when I was working for BT Sport. And I think it was Michael Owen, Rio Ferdinand and Steven Gerrard sitting around in the studio. And I think it was Michael or Rio that asked the question. They said, do you reckon the greatest thing that's ever happened to you has already happened? Now, I can't imagine anything worse than thinking that. And I remember all three of them agreeing. they were like to score in a Champions League final to win a Champions League to win a Premier League nothing will ever touch it I wonder if I asked you that question do you think you've had the best day of your life how you react I don't want to say yes but I don't want to say no so hard isn't it it's a hard question yeah but it's the challenge that you now have in front of you yeah but then I could turn around and say do you know what one of our best days is one of my children you know whatever they're doing my son playing football my daughter's doing dance you know I've just come back from a dance a dance world cup in Dublin with my oldest daughter and I can't I never got nervous when I was playing football ever but if it's to do with my kids whether it's watching Tyler play football or Eliana doing her dance or Avaia doing her dance I become so I'd say weak I become emotional because to see your kids go out there and shine on stage basically, for me it's such an incredible moment but the lead up to it, I'm nervous, I shake, my hands are sweaty, it's everything.

50:52I remember being out last few weeks being in Dublin and And she was doing a routine, she was doing a backflip. And I was thinking, oh no, if she don't do this right, it's going to be on her and she's going to be upset. So we went in the hallway and she was practicing. And it come off twice and it didn't come off the last time. And I was like, do it again. She was like, no, no, I'm fine, I'm fine. I literally, this was the afternoon about two o 'clock. She didn't dance till eight o 'clock that night. I was, when I say so nervous, just thinking, oh, please, please do it, please do it. And she'd done it.

51:25and I thought that is unbelievable it's amazing for you to go up there on a stage in front of all these people to be able to do that so to answer the question maybe something from my kids might outdo what I've done but then if I think about it I'm really not sure and like you say the next part of my life now that I'm going into like you obviously said that pre-season you know you're not doing pre-season I'm I think I've been ready to retire and I think that if I'd come back from it in Milan and retired at that point I think I would still be the same way that I am now I think that every season from then being at two years at Villa the two years and then the year at Ipswich I think that I was ready to retire in my head I was like I could retire I always knew and speaking to ex-players when they said when I said to them yeah I'm ready to retire and they were then you'll know when you're really ready to retire so in the four years previous was I actually ready?

52:37No I don't think I was. I think until I got to hearing the specialist talk even before then I was like right I am going to go out on my own terms I know I'm going to be ready and when you think about the greatest moment we've spoken about will you ever have the greatest moment of your life again? When you look back now, what do you believe is your greatest moment? I think on a whole level, for me, winning the Premier League was the biggest achievement that I think back to myself as a five-year-old boy playing football. Wow. Like the Premier League for me is the biggest thing to ever win. And I know a lot of people will say World Cup and whatnot, but domestically, I actually can't put into words what that feeling was when we won it.

53:36I can tell you there was a lot of drinking, there was a lot of drunk times that week, but I just, words don't, I'm not able to say the words. I've never been able to say the words to say winning the Premier League what that actually felt like. Why not? I just, it's just a feeling that unless you do it, you can't really explain it. Like even like doing it, you can't, I can't really explain it. Like I said, I talk non-stop. I don't have the words for it. Like I really, it's just an achievement that any word to describe it doesn't really do it justice enough. And when we say winning the Premier League, in your head what is the moment that you go to

54:26every time I say win the Premier League

54:33I just remember I remember being funny enough I remember being in hospital I just had my I snapped my my ligaments in my ankle I'd done a syndesmosis in my ankle so I had to get that repaired and I remember being in the hospital and it was the night of when we played Aston Villa and I think everyone remember obviously Roman Van Persie's volleyed goal as I passed it to him and I remember making sure I said to the docs I need to be back up watching that game and I remember watching the game and now I'm I'm out of it because, you know, they put stuff into me, tablets and whatnot, to make me have the operation.

55:23I celebrate and they said to me, you are up till four o 'clock in the morning singing United songs in this hotel bed. Literally, we had to shut the door because you were that loud. I was like, did I wake anyone up? And they were like, no, no, no. Well, you don't remember because you were sedated. I don't remember because I was so, so out of it. I was so out of it. But I remember that moment and waking up the next day and literally I was up at like 8 o 'clock going, I need to get to Manchester. I had the operation in London. I need to get to Manchester to get to the training ground. I remember having a boot on.

55:51I remember being on crutches and just going to the training ground and just celebrating with everyone. Like I said, literally that week, we barely trained. We didn't do nothing. We were literally in the training ground. It was like we didn't really do nothing to the pub. The crutches become a key thing in celebrating. I've seen the photos. They were mainly in the air rather than on the floor. Exactly that. They were always in the air. And I remember, you know, when we got the trophy the day, Patrice put me on his back and literally the crutches were there and he run me across the pitch. And just standing there and just looking around the ground at that time, looking at the trophy, it was just, like I say, that moment for me was one of the best moments ever.

56:36Amazing thing to experience. and you said earlier like there were then some tough times at Man United how did they feel when you went through such great times they were really difficult like having the the success that we had even the year I signed this is one I can't I can't really talk about I can't really see on TV I can't read about it but us losing the title on the last day is you know it was I say it was a bit sweet then to then go and win the league the next year but that that day is such a hard moment to to think about to to take to talk about because of thinking we got so close to to winning the Premier League that day and it's just such a tough thing to hear.

57:43Just in my head, I can just hear a commentator just shouting Aguero and it's like any time it was on TV, it had to be turned off. Any newspaper thrown away, I could not read it, could not see it. Had you guys stayed on the pitch waiting? Yeah, we was Sunderland away and we'd stayed on the pitch because our game had finished before City's game against QPR and I remember it was Andy Burton was in the stands at the time and worked for Sky and I like looked over at him and he was like it's 2-all I said alright, how long's left and he said a couple minutes left and I remember then would have made you champions and I remember turning and looking back at him and I remember him just shaking his head and I thought no it's not possible and he was like they've won 3-2 and it was the hardest to be in the dressing room after that game to walk back into that dressing room like there was it was silence for I probably want to say half hour, 45 minutes and I remember the boss walking in and just looking at everyone and saying I want you all to remember this feeling how you're feeling and take that into next season and literally that were all the words he said.

59:03And for me, that's been up there with a really tough moment. But then I fast forward and go to, you know, after the boss left, I probably want to say every season I was written off. I was told, yeah, you're probably going to be sold. Or it was there in the media, you're going to be sold and whatnot. Did I play a lot under David Moyes? No. no I didn't enjoy football then and I remember at times I was sat in the car we had to be in at half nine I was looking at the clock and I'm one of them that are getting training early and there was a few other players we'd text we'd sit in the car just because we just weren't enjoying football going from the success we had literally to no success was one of the toughest times as well as being told, well, you're not playing and you're probably going to be sold.

1:00:10Was there a reason for you being told that?

1:00:16Managers have the players that they want. Managers have players that they don't want. It happens. It happens at every club. When you're playing for the biggest club in the world, there's always going to be competition for places. you know there's going to be scrutiny for the biggest club in the world of course there is now was that the manager being able to to deal with I don't think that the manager dealt with it in the best way possible but I always knew nah I'm not leaving this place like when you walk in that building you know if you can be there for life you'll be there for life so you never thought I need to go never never never Did I want to go and play football?

1:01:00I did. And I was doing everything I could in training. But I just didn't, I weren't liking it at that time under David Moyes. I didn't like it. Obviously, he then got sacked. When you say the manager didn't deal with it very well, when you're delivering hard news to players, what does dealing with it well and dealing with it not very well actually look like for a footballer? To me, if you've got good management skills, you'll know how to deal with players. When you've gone from the boss who's operating on his doors wide open come and have a conversation with me about anything to a manager that didn't really talk too much didn't really like players talking with him as such you're like, hold on a minute something's not right here.

1:01:50but for me as soon as as soon as David Moyes come in three weeks into it he said I'm not going to change a lot obviously you know he's a new manager he's going to change change certain things which rightly so every manager is totally different you know I'm going to change this this this but I'm not going to change a lot because you just won the league what do I need to change within five weeks of being in pre-season five weeks of the season things totally changed and you know you talk to players that were around that time Rio for instance was told he wasn't going to play Evita wasn't going to play Patrice, same, wasn't going to play and you know to think that training was totally different the winning mentality was different it wasn't really there and I think that for as much success that Dave Moyes has had at Everton, West Ham, like, I mean, a career that's been fantastic.

1:02:59I think coming to United, I don't think there was going to be a manager that was going to be able to do the same thing that the boss had done. It's so difficult. Who's going to be able to follow the boss? We thought Jose would in the end, didn't we? Yeah. And why did that not happen? I don't think that happened because I think we got a different Jose that was at Chelsea the first time round or at Real Madrid before. I don't think that it was... Of course managers are going to change and be a different style. I don't think he was able to get the best out of the players there. And I think there was a switch in players at the time as well that player power started to come more and more into things and the fact of being at Manchester United and playing teams like Liverpool, playing teams like City, when you got your big rivals, it didn't feel like the club's DNA was still there.

1:04:04In what way? I think with the players, the way the boss had it, there was a core of homegrown players that knew the Man United way, that knew the way of success, knew what success looked like. Whereas players had come in and, you know, I say there was players, there was staff, it was a mix of both. And players didn't, they wanted success, but didn't really know how to get the success. And I don't think the manager was able to do the same and get the players playing their highest abilities. And it was tough. so almost like a misalignment yeah yeah and I think that was why things didn't go to plan although Jose had success there yeah you know he did win trophies yeah and I think he's come out and he said that finishing second one year was his biggest achievement now now is that for a for a United manager to say that yeah exactly for a United player to say that for a United manager to say that you as a player go I'm not sure about this and like I say from me being in a successful era as in winning the Premier League to then transitioning to this new generation as I call it it it did feel different and like I say things just weren't aligned in that way whereas they they could have been but like I say I think players as well have got got to take that see I think alignment is the one thing that football fans don't ever get to see, therefore don't understand.

1:05:45So like Thomas Frank goes to Tottenham, doesn't do what he hoped to do, or the fans hoped, and they think, oh, the manager's not very good. If you speak to anyone who was in his group of coaches, they will tell you there was a misalignment. And I think football fans, we don't understand what clubs are talking about when they're talking about a misalignment from the ownership structure to the players that we're going to buy, to the type of football we want to play, to the message to the players, to the connection with the fans. It's so rare to get this alignment. What is the secret, do you think, to an aligned football club?

1:06:19I think that between the owners, between the sporting director, between the manager, they all have to align first. And as soon as they align, they're on board with what the manager wants to do. And I think that I look back to, I say the boss, I look at Unai Emery. with what he's done at Aston Villa. You know, if you've got a manager that's got the backing of the owners, who's got a big say in players that are being bought, then that will then all align because the manager is key to everything. The manager is key to players' success. The manager is key to the club's success. So if you've got an alignment between the owners before the sporting director and then the manager to then down to the players.

1:07:12That breeds success. It's why that Una Emery, when he went into Aston Villa, it might have taken him, you know, I think he come in October, November. It took him that season to stabilise the club to then, you know, kind of the success of getting the club back into Europe. That's because he brought in the staff that he wanted and a sporting director that, you know, he got on well with and got players in that he knew were hungry and wanted to play in the style that he wanted them to play. And that's what breeds success. Like I say, if you've got a manager that has the right tools in the way of, right, I want these players.

1:07:57These players are going to fit into my system. I'm going to play this way. Are you backing me or not? You know, I'm not a manager. I'm not a coach. I'm not an owner. So I don't know what goes on further up there. All I know is as players, if you've got a manager that fills you with confidence to go out and play, that you don't have long meetings, you don't have long training sessions, you don't run non-stop. But once you, and we'll say to you, work hard and we'll get success. It all aligns. It will align. You've got to, I say that alignment, it's massive. It's massive. And if you look at the successful ones, like we spoke about the boss, we spoke about Jürgen Klopp, you spoke about Pep Guardiola.

1:08:42If you've got a manager there that can walk around the whole training ground, now, you know, I couldn't even tell you how much staff could be at a training ground, but will know everyone's name that will welcome you, whoever you are, whether it's a cleaner, whether it's a player, and will know about family and whatnot and ask you about family. There's a lineman there. It's massive. It's key. it's key to everything and the best managers will be able to do that and will have that and I think that was you know of course Jurgen Klopp he managed Liverpool he had so much success I don't want to talk about his success but when you meet him and talk to him you know I've been fortunate enough to meet him on a holiday and to sit down and talk to him and just get pick his brains of what it takes to have success he will talk about knowing players inside and out knowing his own staff but also knowing the people that are in the background knowing the staff that work at the training ground knowing the staff that work at the ground because of course the success has come from the players no no no there's so much staff that are in the background that do all the hard work for the players to then go and succeed and like I said that alignment is key to everything I was always impressed as well how much you would understand a modern footballer when I spoke to him same with Pep Guardiola actually this knowledge of what a modern footballer looks and I think probably the biggest thing that's changed in your time in the game is social media yeah like would you take us into what it now looks like in a modern dressing room after a game of football yeah and I you know I go back to towards the end of I say Michael Carrick and Wayne Romney's time at United there was three seniors me us me and them too.

1:10:39And where social media has come into it, you know, when we was under the boss, our phones used to be laid out underneath a TV. Like no one used to go on their phones after the game for at least half hour because we were either talking about the game or we were celebrating the victory. Whereas the power of social media took over and players would still be in their full kits and be scrolling on their phones. And, you know, us three used to look at each other and be like, we've just lost the game. And straight away, players have come into the dressing room and they're on their phones already just to check social media to see either what's been said about them, what's been said about their performance.

1:11:26And it was one of them things where, even to this day, I've not been used to it. I don't understand how... Does anything good ever come from it? Of course, there's going to be people that praise you if you've done well. But there's always going to be someone. For me, is it real praise? You're going to have fans that clap you off the pitch. You're going to have fans that boo you off the pitch. It's going to come either way. You're going to have fans that will praise you on there. You're going to have people that are not going to praise you on there. What good is it if it's not come from managers, coaches, other teammates or family?

1:12:04That's how I see it. everyone's different everyone's different I've seen it really affect players when they've come in and read things on social media to the point of where you know people throw their phone down and you're like I know what's happened they've seen something written about them yet how I see it quite a lot is that if you were to see that person on the street they're not going to say that to your face because the power of being behind a tablet looking at laptop, iPad, whatever it is, phone, being able to say something. Of course, everyone's able to speak on social media. But as a player, for me, in my head, if my manager, coaches say that you haven't performed, if my other players say that I haven't performed, if families say I haven't performed, even before they're there to say it, in my own head, I know if I've performed or not.

1:13:01So I don't need anyone to tell me because I know I've been rubbish today I didn't do this today I didn't do that today I'm one of them that I didn't even need to watch games back because I knew as soon as I finished the game for a whole week I'd know if I'd not done something right in the game because I know what was happening in the game I know what I did I know what I didn't do so I wouldn't need anybody to tell me you've been like this or you've been like that social media really it can work in your favour it can work against you people are allowed freedom of speech it's that way is it right at times what people say on there no of course it's not but who's going to turn around and say to them you can't say that it's not out there there's nothing that's blocked for a player you can obviously now turn your comments off I think part of the problem as well Ashley isn't that it's just football fans who might only have because I don't think you can criticise football fans for some of their opinions because they only get shown 10 % of the information they just see what happens on the pitch they don't know injuries that haven't been spoken about, mental health challenges, problems during the week, personal issues, being asked to do a certain thing by a manager that the fans, you know what I mean?

1:14:12Where I struggle with it is the direction I think the media is taking. Where I see after the England games recently, for example, I see national broadcasters yelling, yelling into a microphone like this on an important platform, sack Tuchel, sack Tuchel, sack him now. I wonder whether football media is helping itself in this sense. What does that tell a football fan? If that's what an ex-player wants to do. I'm exactly with you. I see that being a problem too. I get everyone, ex-players are being given platforms to speak at times. Of course, everyone played the game as an ex-player, you've got an opinion.

1:14:55But when it comes to making it personal about players, it's not right at all. For me, it's not right. As a new pundit, I don't go and attack someone and say, this person needs to be sacked or this player was rubbish. It's a way that I do things and I talk in a way that, I'll just be honest and I'll be truthful. I know what it's like to be a player. I know now I'm an ex-player, how I talk about players. and like I said there could be so much that's going on throughout that week a manager could turn around and say you know you've got to play this way and that way and fans do not know about it but they have a say ex-players are speaking so much are speaking a lot and rightly or wrongly so whichever way you want to want to see it at times I think the true fans see the ones that are talking and saying that they're talking rubbish.

1:16:02Like, you don't listen to them. Don't listen to them because they're not speaking the truth. But being ex-players, they carry a weight that a football fan doesn't have. And certain people could even follow that because like you say, they carry that weight. The challenge that you will have as you become an experienced pundit is getting caught up in the algorithm game. Like, which is going to click on the algorithm more? A nuanced, cleverly thought out, empathetic, understanding, opinion based on knowledge or shouting and screaming strong opinions that the fans want to hear. It triggers people either in a positive or a negative sense.

1:16:36That's what the algorithm is going to pick up on. So then you as a pundit, you look at your numbers and go, well, that had 500 likes, that had 28 ,000 likes. I better do more of this. And the people who are your bosses in broadcasting will come to you and go, do more of this stuff because everyone loves it. And then we all get sucked into this world of angry opinions. And then an angry opinion becomes a standard opinion. Look at Thomas Tuchel. what he went through over the last few weeks I think it's disgusting but then I think that you know I I've always been the same way that I am and as I've got older and older you know I've like I say I've gone into the punetry and got an opinion I'll say my opinion you won't see me shouting into a microphone I'm telling you now you won't see me shouting into a microphone because that's just not me if people want to say right your opinion you getting 500 likes if the person is shouting is getting 20 ,000 likes it is what it is if you don't want to listen to me you don't have to listen to me if you don't want to you don't have to watch me it's not a problem of course the broadcasters they want the likes and you know they want the more viewers I want people to watch me and understand what I'm saying and if if you're not understanding then you know whichever way if it's a possibility for me to actually explain or you to like try and take in exactly what I'm saying where I'm talking and saying this could have happened in their personal life or the manager could have told them this is the tactics we're going to play in.

1:18:06You've got to take a problem and not listen to people shouting and whatnot. Of course, players, managers, you'll know people will have heat on them. People will have when they're not doing things right. At times, do I think Tuchel deserved it? No. At times, do I think he made mistakes? yeah but everyone makes mistakes it's just shown more because it's on the world stage do you know the tactics of Argentina at the time should they have been different well I've got my opinion yeah I do think that we need to make changes in a different way not defenders I think we need to get out of the pitch yeah that's my opinion is someone gonna turn around and say yeah you're right or you're wrong someone will say yeah you're right someone will say yeah you're wrong I'm not a manager I've never been a manager I've not been a coach I don't want to be a manager I don't want to be a coach he's taking on that role he's going to know that taking on the England manager's job is going to bring scrutiny there's going to be certain people that are going to turn around and say certain stuff at certain times like you say the power of social media now at times different people will be able to speak on that and people will listen is it right?

1:19:26No, but everyone's got a freedom of speech. You saw how Jurgen Klopp started his first press conference as Germany manager. Yep. You do too much, I'm out of here. There you go. And that's sadly where we've ended up. Before we wrap up, we've got some quick fire questions for you. These are in partnership with Vitality, the life and health insurer that's proven to help you live. Can you believe this up to five years longer by nudging you towards healthier lifestyle choices? I mean, this is stuff that you know already, right? Exactly that, yeah. Well, let's go into some of your choices. What are the three non-negotiable behaviours that you think are most important?

1:19:59Hardworking, discipline, having fun. Give us one change you made to your life that you think maximised your impact. Always believing in myself. Yeah, always having that belief that, you know, I can do it. Greatest advice you've ever been given? Never give up on your hopes and your dreams. Biggest strength? Mentality. Greatest weakness? Doubt in myself at times. what role has health played in your success massive part you know without my health without not having as many injuries without taking care of my my body i wouldn't be here today and finally what does high performance mean to you that you think other people can learn from and take into their own lives i think your high performance wanting to perform at the highest level mentality you gotta have the right mentality to to perform at the the highest level but for me it's just working working hard like i i can't reiterate it enough you've got to work hard every single day that you want to be able to to be able to perform at the highest level thank you so those are our quickfire questions brought to you with our friends at vitality find out more at vitality.co.uk vitality use behavior change programs to incentivize healthy lifestyle choices they're a pioneer in prevention as well as top health and life insurance cover find out more at vitality.co.uk and that brings us to the end of our conversation mate thank you so much for um taking us to so many highs a few lows good luck with the hip operation thank you i think um that's a reminder that nothing comes for free but i get the sense that if i gave you the choice to live this entire thing all over again you'd probably grab it with both hands i'd do it 10 times over i would not want to do it in any different way that i've done it this time great and you know what i don't actually agree with what the guys said in the studio that day i do think the best is yet to come you just don't know what it is yet exactly top man well what a fascinating insight into what it actually takes to perform at the very highest level as a professional footballer i think the fact that ashley young has just revealed that he will need in the next couple of years a hip replacement is a stark reminder of the cost of professional sport a cost that we see so rarely I think but what an interesting conversation and I think that so often when we talk about football or we talk about elite sport we talk about the results but actually what did Ashley want to talk about for that whole hour plus was the personalities whether it was someone that kind of scared him but he respected and obviously loved and still calls him the boss in the shape of Sir Alex Ferguson.

1:22:41Maybe it was the stories about Antonio Conte, who sounds like an amazing person to play for for a short period of time and not very much longer. All the way through to David Moyes, where he obviously didn't see eye to eye. I think you could tell that by the way that he was talking. But also Jose Mourinho. The comments around Jose were really interesting because I think that what we don't see often enough is the importance of alignment in life, not just in football, but in life. And as soon as someone is not aligned in your life, I think immediately things just don't quite work out. And that's why I mentioned the idea of Thomas Frank, who was so great at Brentford and struggled so much at Tottenham.

1:23:19It isn't that he became a bad manager. It's that he went from a club where he had total alignment to a club where the alignment wasn't there. And as Ashley retires, I think it's a reminder that the game is very different. The way he spoke about young players being on social media, the world is very different to how it was when he was younger. But it's yet another reminder, and we've seen this so often on High Performance, that from the outside looking in, we can assume that high performers are the ones where good things happen, where life is easy, where they've got the talent, where success comes naturally.

1:23:46But actually, Ashley's entire career arc has been built on the fact that at 15 years of age, he was told, you're not good enough. And from that moment on, I mean, I love that story. The next day I decided to play and I told them, push me harder. And within one year, he gets a professional contract. That is the greatest insight into the mentality that it takes to be a high performer, to be an elite athlete. And it's a real pleasure that Ashley, so fresh after retiring, has come and shared his story with us here on High Performance. Listen, if you know someone who's a United fan, an Everton fan, a Villa fan, an Inter fan, a football fan, or someone that just wants to understand a little bit more about what elite cultures look like, please just send them this conversation with Ashley.

1:24:26You can also look in the archive for loads of other chats with former and current footballers and elite athletes. And please like, please subscribe, and we'll see you next time for another conversation here on High Performance.

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