Richard Hammond: Life After Top Gear & Turning Down the BBC (E444)

0:00Before we get started, let me tell you, you can now listen to high performance ad free. Start your free trial now on Apple, Spotify or head to our website so you can listen to our episodes uninterrupted.

0:13In the last two years, I lost my father, my dog, my marriage, my house. How do you know when you're living through the good old days? And we didn't know at the time. Not just to do those incredible things, but to share them. And did you communicate with the other two and Andy that you weren't necessarily ready to stop?

0:36We are very interested to talk to you about walking away because I think that that's one of the most interesting things. I mean, what I used to love about watching Top Gear and Grand Tour was almost less the TV and more the amount of people that came out to watch you make television. I've spent my life making television and maybe one kid would turn around the corner and go, oh, there's a TV camera. We actually had a key moment when that first happened and you've had Willman on air. Yeah. He's probably here now, isn't he, somewhere? Yeah, he basically lives in the building. Which is a friend of the show.

1:05I think he hosts it now, isn't he? But anyway, one of his many, many appearances. Don't know if he ever said, but there was one film we made, which was like cut-price supercars. Right, yeah. And we'd pulled over, I think Marlborough, around there, and we were in a petrol station. And I think we all felt it at the same time. Like an audience came out just so, oh, what are they going to be doing? What's going on here? They saw us. They saw the cameras. They saw the cars. And they immediately thought, oh, there's an event. There's something happening. This is that Top Gear lot. That was a turning point.

1:35That's when we realised, oh, hello, this is a circus now. This is not, this is more performative. And how many years in was that? That was quite a long way in. No. No, it was only about two, three years, something like that. Right. Maybe four. Maybe that's, listen. I can't remember. I wasn't paying you a chunk of time. The others will tell you I don't pay attention to much. so I don't know where we've been what you've done what we'd know but occasionally it's like were you aware that something yeah we all were we spoke about it after we all thought hold on I mean I'd done car shows for years Granada Minna Motors and ITV and stuff but this was something different because we pulled in in three old cut pricey tailing supercars with the crew and us three got out and people were expecting something more okay oh there's a performance going to happen there's a thing come to town we were aware then and what did that do for you like did it change anything for you in terms of how you started to behave I don't think it did for any of us because the aim from the very outset was let's just make the best car shall we go right nobody ever said oh if we introduce this kind of banter or if we deal with things like that it'll go this way We never did that.

2:52There was no science in the creation of it. I remember early meetings in 2000 when it was being put together. And bearing in mind, you know, Wilman and Jeremy had got the opportunity from the BBC to relaunch Top Gear, and they'd been toying with the idea of a studio audience which had never been done before. So there were a lot of new things. But I remember the meetings. So Wilman was there, Richard Porter was there, all familiar names. Most of them stayed with the show forever. And in those first few months as we were building it up, I remember saying, right, ground rules of new Top Gear. No supercars.

3:25Only normal cars that people can actually buy. No foreign travel. We're going to keep it real. Feet on the ground. And then we quickly thought, that's really boring, isn't it? We hate it. We did one series where we sort of did that, and then we thought, they don't like it. Why are we doing it? Let's just make this show we want to like. You'd rather drive a Bugatti in Australia. It's just better. Yeah, than a Vauxhall in Siren Cesta. Better to do. So we've, but from that point on, we just make the best show we could. I'd like to play you a clip from your friend and ours, Andy Willman. And we looked at it and there was a man and he was in a sort of party shop Batman outfit standing on a wall and he was, the car that he was going to talk about was below him and he said some Batman type things, jumps off the wall and lands next to the car and then starts talking about the car.

4:14And none of it had any, you know, the Batman thing had nothing, It could have been a fiesta. It made no sense what he was doing. And I said to Kate, what is he doing? She went, fuck knows. And we were like, yeah, we haven't got a clue. But there was something about him and his energy. So we all agreed we like him. So we said, right, let's put him on the audition list. And she's like, Richard Hammond. Right, okay, I'll get him in. Yeah. I can't, I actually remember. I love that you couldn't remember when he mentioned the Batman that it was you at the beginning. No, I couldn't. I think I remember, I was working on Granada Men and Motors.

4:52The way that came about, so I started in radio in 1988. Loved it, BBC Radio, North Yorkshire. From the moors to the shores, from the vales to the dales. Loved it. But I wanted to do car TV, car shows. But how do you do that? So I applied for every job I could. In those days, it would be the newspaper, no internet. but I'm not going to get car magazine hi I'm I'll call Richard I live in God all over the north I worked at Radio Yorkshire Cleveland Radio Cumbria Radio Newcastle Radio Leeds just always living in bedsits going where the work was and then quickly realising I'm not going to get onto car shows doing this so I applied for and got a job in the press office at Renault UK thinking well I get to know the editors of all the car shows doing that I was a shit press officer.

5:48Really, really bad. Because I'd stay up late with the journalists. So we'd take journalists all around the world, launching the new Renault Senior, or whatever, it didn't matter. And I'd stay up with the company Amex, bar, journalists, all night. But then I'd also be up first with the really keen ones that wanted to get up and actually drive the car. So I was basically unconscious most of the time. Useless at it. But I did get to know a guy called Pete Baker, who was the editor then of Granada Men and Motors, because I took him on launches and things, and I said, Pete, I'd really love to get back to broadcasting.

6:24It's kind of why I did this. And he said, all right, well, I can't, you need to make a show reel. So I got my mate Jan to film me doing a review of my Rena Laguna press car. And he said, yeah, that's quite good, actually. It's all right, okay, well, we'll get you on. You'll have to leave there, and you'll maybe get one day a week. but we'll see I think it was 100 and something quid a day 120 quid a day it's not bad maybe it's alright it's probably what you don't know these days but it was only maybe and so I gave up my job so I gave up the only on a maybe yeah and I'd buy and I'd bought a little house in Wendover which I loved so I got a lodger in it was a tiny house a bedroom and a half and the lodge had the half bedroom Carl bless him he worked out Renault in motorsport.

7:14Oh, how we survived. I don't know. But yeah, I left. It's the only salary I've ever had. The only company car I've ever had. I wrote it off the week before I left. Not on purpose, genuinely. Stacked it. And then started on one possible day with Granada Menomotors doing car reviews. I didn't have a car because my company car had gone, I couldn't afford one. So you used to have to hire from the petrol station down the road that I could walk to, you could hire a purple Nissan Micra, a Gen 2 for£25 a day. Unfortunately, it had hire me for£25 a day in yellow down the side of it. And I'd drive up to usually Stoke where the guy producing, one guy would produce, shoot, do sound and edit it.

7:58Early years of digital tape. So I'd turn up and he'd have had the Porsche press car for a week. Right there, Rich, what are you going to do? Well, I don't give up the car. I've no idea. I'm literally the first time I've seen it. Well, let's do an opening piece of camera. Well, you've been spanking around on a brand new 911 for a week. I've just rented a purple Nissan Micra for 25 quid to get it. So I had to make it up on the day and just sort of really quickly. That still hasn't explained the Batman suit. The reason there is eventually guys are going to run out of ideas. So I must have just found it.

8:32I thought, I'll start in that. So you just put the Batman suit on? I can't remember. Probably, yeah. It'll be on the internet somewhere. But I remember talking to Jake about his early start in TV when you said you did a piece for Rapture in Paris and you just knew you were comfortable in front of the camera. When did that sense of comfort of, I'm just going to make this up and riff in front of a camera, when did you start to think, I'm good at this, I can do this? Because I've done it from day dot. I went to sixth form, Rippin' Grammar, and then the people who ran the sixth form brought me in and suggested it might be better, for all concerned, if I were to go somewhere else, anywhere.

9:16Just literally, they fired me. So having been sacked from sixth form, I thought, well, what do? And I got into Harrogate College of Arts and Technology to do an early media course. So there's a lot of painting in it, which I really enjoyed, a lot of photography which I loved but also early it was this won't mean anything to you or you might remember U band low band U-matic high band U-matic yes massive old I'm not sure most people will listen to this will remember nobody will have an idea what that is that was right at my very start yep so using that so I we were one of the projects we did needed somebody to present it they suggested I did it I bloody loved it and it just felt like oh I like this talking to this device but i'm talking to somebody i then left that and got that's when i got into radio and again the idea of talking to somebody through something whether it's a microphone or a camera i just really enjoy really felt that connection this is really interesting for me because i've obviously followed your career as a fellow broadcaster i'm interested in how it's happened and i was just particularly impressed by the success of top gear and how you created that magic and we can maybe talk a bit about that but i remember when jeremy was fired by the beep for lamping that producer and i was like now watch richard hammond step forth and lead that show and i genuinely thought you would do that and i'm so interested in why you decided to stay loyal to the trio even with nowhere to go rather than because the bbc did come to you right and give you an offer, editorial control, an opportunity.

11:00Yeah. Because I was appreciative of what we had when we were together, all of us. I knew the audience was loyal to us. I knew we'd have had a pretty savage time going on without Jeremy, but we could have got there. But I figured the audience... It only happened because we were all together. I'm not arrogant enough to think I couldn't have done that on my own. So, no, we had to stick together. I mean weirdly when we were designing and I bet Willman won't have told you this but you won't mind me saying it we were building the new show and we'd borrow he'd borrow some offices off somebody or other he's probably told you about that getting it all set up James was away Jeremy was away this is for Grand Tour yeah building the Grand Tour up and only I was there and I had an idea in my head so I was kicking about really with Willman in our nice office having a laugh and we knew Jeremy was coming back the end week at the end of the next week and Wilma was like oh it's going to be hard he's going to come roaring back and he'll have to think of a million ideas and go a million miles an hour and this is going to be wrong and we've had we just had a nice time and I said yeah and if he doesn't come back that's all we'll have nice time it needed all of us it really really really did I mean you know how much it needed Wilma who's been on this show often I have to make that clear but it needed all of us to contribute in the way that we did for that balance to happen.

12:27So if you and James had stayed and Jeremy had gone off and done his own thing and moved to his farm or whatever, what would Top Gear have lost without him? Some of the chaos, lunacy. A lot of his ideas are not physically possible, leave alone legal. So the team had to go through them, but it had to be there. It had to have that spark of idiot genius. It had to have Willman to work against and with. And James and I to play our roles often as foils, but often as a necessary part. It was a complex... But it wasn't put together, remember. It wasn't like, ooh, then we need a bit of this. It was if you put us four together, those are the pushes and pulls that exist within us, out of which comes that.

13:19We all know creative tension has to be there. So there are pushes and pulls in different directions. some big, some small. And that's what is extruded from the other end of our particular sausage machine. But your humility there about me and James had to play our parts foils. You obviously brought something as well that you can, like if you were being candid, what do you think you two brought to that mix? We may be sometimes, if somebody's doing something ridiculous, it needs somebody that you know to react to it. The best way to put it is, when we were doing the big specials, we'd be a long time planning those.

13:57And the BBC's time, simply because you can't just say to the BBC, hey, we're going to spend a million quid or whatever it costs to do this massive thing. And they'll go, what's going to happen? Shit will go down. Something funny will happen. That's not really enough. So we'd have to plan it, knowing well that all the planned bits would fall away and we'd actually go with what spontaneously happened. But we'd have planned it. so and even more so at Grand Tour because we were spending more money yeah so there could be like a year of planning they're seven figures in before boots are on the ground it's ridiculous but then we stand on moment one scene one day one same crew that's been with us for 20 odd years are there cameras go up and genuinely it would feel as though the three of us were stepping into a world that we'd been inhabiting all along we were just there waiting for ourselves really felt like that oh yeah here we are honestly like popping up oh right doesn't matter whether we're in mongolia africa doesn't matter wherever we are um that's where we've been and now we're inhabiting it and we'd also reached a point where something would happen over there and i know that's something more it's going to trigger jeremy more or james or it might be something that's particularly me and we would know instinctively okay, I'll grab that and I'll react to that.

15:17And then you'll take the piss out of me for reacting that way. And then you'll be exasperated at that battle. So we knew without having to communicate that, right, that's how that will work. Hey, if you're enjoying high performance, but you're not loving the ads, you can sign up for a free trial right now to go ad free. Sign up today.

15:37When you're running a growing business, the right systems can unlock your full sales potential and make fulfilling every order effortless. Switch to ShipStation before peak season so you're prepped and ready before the rush hits. ShipStation connects Shopify, Amazon, TikTok Shop, and over 200 more marketplaces with one platform that does it all. You can manage orders, sync inventory, track returns, all automatically. Everything your operation needs, all in one place. Upgrade your shipping operations to stress-proof your biggest sales days and capture every bit of potential revenue. Go to ShipStation.com and use code AUDIO and get 30 days free.

16:07This is a paid partnership with Apple Card. The coolest flex at brunch these days is not the Bloody Mary with the bottomless gold flake caviar topping. It's not whipping out your wallet to pay. It's not having a wallet at all. Jack's been an Apple Card user since 2019. That's the same year he tossed his wallet in the trash. Because Apple Card holders earn 2 % daily cash back on purchases made using Apple Pay. It's the only credit card designed for the iPhone. I tap to pay with Apple Card at the grocery store, at the gas station, at restaurants. And yes, I use it at my second home, the farmer's market.

16:37Jack tapping to pay with his Apple Card with Apple Pay is his favorite thing to do. And the pleasant vibration and chime sound means I just got 2 % daily cash back on my latest purchase. Apply in the wallet app on your iPhone today. Subject to credit approval. Apple Card issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA, Salt Lake City Branch. Terms and more at AppleCard.com.

16:59It can't have been like that though on day one. No, it wasn't. Because, no. You see that. I think James wasn't there on day one, season one. No, it wasn't. It grew. It definitely grew with time. But the BBC, you know, we were just a car show. Yeah. Topic is old. We know that. It's been around for decades. But we were just like a little car show, get on with what you do. They didn't look at us. We weren't, I don't think they liked us very much. And I think the BBC thought what it's always thought was just cars. They do. If it's, oh, no, this is about dance. Oh, this is about baking. Oh, this is about throwing pots.

17:37This is important. We need to be experts about this. And we need to really consider, oh, it's just cars. Well, I've got a car. I've been in a car. That's all right. They just don't. Whereas right now, it's a monumentally important subject. It really, really matters. It's undergoing huge change. We have to decarbonize transport, yes. But we can't just listen to the push and pull of governments and commerce deciding, you know, it's a binary definition. Right, that's it. You've all got to go electric. Vote for us because we'll make everybody buy electric cars. Brilliant, we will. Well, we can't. It's not possible.

18:06But equally, vote for us because we only like V8s. It's just as stupid. It needs to be a more balanced thing. So we as consumers... Sorry, that's a high horse of mine. No, but that's actually interesting because as we all know, the BBC announced when a couple of weeks ago that Top Gear is coming back. Yeah. And actually, any time you now re-launch Top Gear, it carries more baggage because of what you've just spoken about because cars are actually part of the national conversation like they haven't been before. And there's all the baggage from the previous... The two things, exactly right. The baggage from us, they've got to just get rid of that.

18:38I mean, I have talked to them. I do know they're doing it. Obviously. But I don't want to be involved because, no, we can't bring... Somebody needs to make a show that we as punters right now are making big decisions. Second biggest purchase after your house, if you're lucky enough to buy a house in this day and age. We're making decisions with no knowledge. I regularly sit in pubs and say to people, Oh, yeah, well, because, you know, the synthetic fuel. What? But we can make petrol. What? But what with oil? No. You just capture carbon, which you can capture direct from source, manufacture it.

19:14The ethanol industry produces a lot of it. Capture it at the chimney, you've got your carbon. Hydrogen you crack using renewable energy from water. Combine it, you've got hydrocarbon. That's petrol. And 1.4 billion cars can stay on the road and don't have to be remade. And that technology has been there for decades. and at the same time, we've all got to go electric. Where are the resources going to come from? We're going to cede global power entirely to China. They don't work in many applications. They work brilliantly in some. I'm a big fan of electric cars. But the technology is moving at such a rate, telling some 25-year-old who lives in a town and does 3 ,000 miles a year, you've got to go and find 45 grand to spend on a Kia now, electric, that you won't be able to charge out of your house and that will be worth 10 grand next year when the technology is completely outdated is idiotic.

20:03Actually saying to them, best thing you could do is go and buy a Mark II Fiesta. It'll be really cool and retro. Get it beautifully restored and run it. If you can run it on synthetic, that is the greenest thing you could do. No carbon footprint. Does it need to try and do that and tell that story? Somebody needs to be... If only what we really need as a nation is like a national broadcaster that can, in an unbiased sense, gift us, the populace, with the information we need to make important and informed decisions. I wish there were such an institution. Because, my God, it would be useful. Right now, cars need that.

20:40So they can't just make what they made when you were on it. It can't be what it was. Well, that was us anyway. We're always going to be better at being us than anybody else is. That's a fact, because we are us. So let them be them. I'm not saying it has to be boring. Don't forget, Top Gear used to be, was Angela Rippon, wasn't it? And Noel Edmonds and Raymond Baxter, was he? Standing with his foot on the bumper, talking, this is the, you now get electric windows and they've just pushed this button and they go down. But at least it was a buying guide. Then it was more about, ooh, cars are nice.

21:15Now it's really important, really important, because we as consumers are going to decide the direction the industry goes. And the industry needs to be afforded the opportunity for the engineers to develop the technology that will save the world. And it will only do that if we're realistic and informed as consumers. And we won't do that as long as we've got governments just clamouring for votes and trying to win them by presenting us with this entirely binary option that doesn't exist. The future won't be either of those things. It'll be a brightly coloured scene of all sorts of options from hydrogen combustion, internal combustion using hydrogen itself or hydrogen fuel cell, maybe.

21:53There's loads of different things that will be there. We'll get the stuff we want. Sorry, high horse. Or good luck. Getting off high horse. Or whoever ends up with that job. I want to talk about when you no longer have the thing that gave you the purpose. Here's a clip from, I saw this on your Drive Tribe channel. I'm having a look. You'll know. You'll recognise it straight away. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. That was a big moment. Yeah. He said, recording this on my phone. Yeah. I could just open this, please. Sorry, phone, leave us, please. These are the last moments as we were driving across the desert coordinating the three of us.

22:29We'd split and that's the end.

22:43Yeah, it was, um, it was hard. Yeah, it was, you don't, somebody, I've heard somebody said, how do you know when you're living through the good old days? Yeah. It's a really good question. And we didn't know at the time. But God, it was amazing to get to do all we did. I'm so privileged, so lucky. And the fact that it was not just to do those incredible things, but to share them with. with a guy when I pulled up this morning a guy came over oh Rich lovely to see you again and he actually reminded me massively of a director he looked and sounded like a director I couldn't remember his name so I shook his hand oh mate good to see you again and as we were chatting I realised oh shit we've never met but obviously he's been on adventures with us so to share it was just epic and yeah it was hard ending it of course it was I knew enough to know this is going to leave a big hole.

23:52Yeah. But we also knew it was time to do that. You've spoken to women about this, you know. Yeah. Well, some psychologists often talk about, like, people that can transition are the ones that, it's not the exit point, it's knowing that you're moving towards something else, an entry point. Did you know what you were going to walk away from towards? That's a really interesting question. Honestly, no. And I know that. I very much feel the same, by the way. You shouldn't walk away from something. You walk to something to keep your momentum going. That's what you do. And I did that. I didn't walk away from radio when I took the scary decision.

24:29I said, right, I'm leaving this. I'm going to go. I'm not leaving radio. I'm going towards working in PR because I'll get to know Peter Baker eventually. I've always done that. This time, I didn't have any choice. I'd have carried on. Of course I would. There's four of us in that. And we had always said, once it became clear, this thing's getting carried away, it's getting really big, isn't it, with Top Gear, we had discussed it openly. It was always sort of in the air that we were not really responsible for the take-off because you couldn't calculate your way to that level of success, if you measure success as being watched.

25:09So we couldn't be in control of the take-off, let's be in control of the landing, and it really mattered to us that it was landed at a time, in a place, and in a manner of our choosing. And it was. And did you communicate with the other two and Andy that you weren't necessarily ready to stop? No, because if they were ready to stop, we had to stop. There's no question. We all four had to be there to do it. So I was ready to stop because the others were. But equally had the others said, shall we carry on? I'll carry on. That's not because I'm easily swayed. It's because I wanted us to still be in that place.

25:45But if we're not all in that place, we're not in that it's quite a complicated four-way relationship a 25-year career together like that and if we weren't all in that place of wanting to do it then there was no I wouldn't want to do it because it wouldn't work couldn't do it which makes sense that that was such an emotional clip for you to watch it really was and I remember remember recording I remember thinking this is a big moment in my life not just the viewers because a lot of it is down the barrel looking at the camera to share with people who've been with us within how long we did it there were members of the film crew that when we started were 24 camera assistant and when we finished we're nearly 50 with three kids grown up i mean that's a life yeah um but it's i was saying goodbye to them i wanted to say to me as well that's why that was to me remind me that's why i choked think and i gave that to drive tribe to use because they were doing a piece on the cars at the grand tour and i said no bang that on the end because it's why does it matter to me it matters to me because i want people to know because sometimes they'll come up and say oh you guys are there with me through my childhood thank you uh and i want them to know that it mattered to us personally just as much as individuals not as somebody on the telly yeah just as an individual I've had the opportunity to tour the world for 25 years, which is a career, with a bunch of people I know really well doing amazing stuff, sharing it with an audience that have loved it and told us that they loved it.

27:21That's a big deal to want to talk to yourself about. And I love that idea of like, you don't know you're in the golden day. You wish somebody would tell you you're in the golden day. Yeah, you never know. But what did it cost you as well to live in those golden days for so long? There will have been a cost. There's a cost, whatever. I honestly, because you're getting close then to looking for regrets, which is an utterly pointless activity. We are, each of us, the product of a billion, infinitely tiny little decisions. One different decision about, I don't know, a Saturday morning trip to the library when I was five, or whatever, where to go on holiday when I was seven.

27:59One tiny little decision in my life would have changed everything in my life and in the lives of people around me, and likewise. So we're all a product of what happened, so there's no point in questioning it. What did it cost me? It cost me the opportunity to be a gardener instead. Or cost me the opportunity to... It cost me every single thing that it isn't. Everything in the universe that isn't that, doing that will cost you. That's that. Every decision you make. We interviewed Stephen Hendry on the show. and at the end you will have these as well. We ask you for your quickfire questions. One of them are the three non-negotiable behaviours.

28:41He answered to one of his non-negotiables as selfishness and then when we asked him about what his career to be the greatest snooker player in the world had cost him, again he said, well, basically everything. The next follow-up was, well, are you glad you paid the price? And he said, absolutely, I was put on the earth to win games of snooker. Now that you've had time away from the intensity of the relationship with the four of you and the adulation and the success and everyone telling you that everything you touch turns to gold. Have you thought about whether that was a price worth paying?

29:12Yeah, because I don't question it. Because to contemplate, is it a price worth paying? Would suggest there's a choice. Would suggest, and that's a complete fantasy land, the idea that what? What do you think I should go back to me when I was, when would I go back to? I remember years ago, this is sort of parallel actually We were, Izzy was born, my eldest And we were living in a rented coach house on the outskirts of Cheltenham It's like one big space And I was working Granada Minamoto So I was driving up and down to Manchester It was four in the morning and Izzy would not sleep she was howling and screaming my ex and her well i'd come downstairs because i was having to get up in about three hours about five o 'clock i was going to leave to ride up to manchester i'm gonna have to bank some sleep or it'll be dangerous and i'm lying on the sofa hearing her screaming thinking i'm gonna get this motorbike and ride for many hours in the rain to manchester how far back do i have to wind my life so that it doesn't end up here doing this today and the further i wind it back yeah i'm gonna have to go back to day one i think i have to go back to the very start and actually then probably have to go back to my parents' lives as well.

30:32In fact, effectively, I think I have to go back to the dawn of civilization to ensure, I'm not saying I'm a big deal, but in all the infinitely tiny little things that have happened, for this particular cluster of atoms and energy to end up in this situation amidst another cluster of atoms and energy, I've got to go back to the beginning. So I don't do regrets for that reason. I wasn't put on earth to do anything i wasn't i just happened um i'm a cluster of energy and matter but that's quite a powerful briefly self-aware that's a powerful mindset though right it almost stops you from being weighed down by the baggage of what if if only oh god i know i'm weighed down by baggage but never what if and if only i'm weighed down by baggage because uh like everybody weirdly coming to london really does it for me because um being in london evokes a time for me that was really cranked up high to 11.

31:25Top Gear was massive. I had a lovely flat here, but I couldn't get home as often as I wanted to because we'd finished work at, you know, whatever time at Dunsfold in Guildford, and it's only an hour or so back to London or many hours back to my house. And we'd be starting work again the next morning at nine o 'clock at White City. There's no way could I go home and come back. I'd have had three hours in bed. So I had to stay at the flat. So it was lonely. It was difficult. It was challenging. I'm scared of cities. I'm scared of institutions. All of those things were around me all the time. and I'm quite scared of fame.

31:53It's a big responsibility. So I was in a fight or flight state the whole time. So the way I carry baggage is I come back to London now as a 56-year-old bloke who's got nothing to be scared of, and I am a little bit of me is back in that state. So it's not baggage in the sense that I don't wander around, oh, I wish I decided to do that, and then I'd be this. No. It's just I'm aware that it puts me into a different state sometimes. And, I mean, it's a small word, but with powerful consequences. being scared of some of those abstract things, whether it's fame or institutions, you said. I'm shit with institutions, honestly.

32:28Go on, explain what you mean by that. Well, I was always scared of, I mean, I was naughty at school. That's because I was scared of it. Yeah. I can't believe it when people aren't. And I used to walk up to the BBC. I started at BBC Radio York, like, this is the BBC. Yeah. A little bit at the BBC. Then the first time I got, when I got the job at Topgate, the first time I came to White City, he was like, oh my God, this is the BBC. It was huge. Yeah, I'm really scared of things like that. I'm still scared of headmasters. Oh God, headmasters and headmistresses scare the shit out of me. But most people would see something that frightens and walk in the opposite direction or avoid it.

33:05You still walk through the doors of White City. I'd love to think, if you're saying I'm terribly brave, I'll take it. But no, because it was a big job and a big opportunity. But we've all got, some of us might be anxious about one-on-one conversations. or isn't it funny if I've got to stand up in front of 20 ,000 people and do something I would be alright standing in front of 20 people is a little bit more ooh this is awkward other people would be the other way around so I don't know we've all got little things that but I suppose the reason I'm pushing you Rich is that there's lots of people that listen to this that do have their own anxieties whatever it is in life and it's more about the mechanisms you've used to be able to still feel that anxiety and act anyway rather than let it inhibit you Yes, that's true.

33:53But I think it's a bit like assessing risk, isn't it? If you're going to do something you're scared of, whether that's because you know it's one of your little things, like me, it's institutions, or you're scared of it because it could go wrong, a tire could blow, whatever, you're looking at risk, aren't you? So then you're thinking, right, what's the downside of this? What's the consequence of that? what can I do to mitigate against that happening? Like, I'm scared of institutions. If I'm going to start on this Top Gear journey, 25 years, 26 years ago, I'm going to have to walk into that big building and I don't like big buildings, I don't like places where there's big bosses, I don't like feeling I'm judged, I don't like feeling I'm going to do the wrong thing, so I'm going to have to be brave.

34:40The possible downside is I could lose my shit completely and hide in a corner. Okay, I'm not going to do that. and if I can be brave if I can make myself do that the reward will be doing something I'm desperate to do it looks like it's going to be an amazing show so it's just dealing with risk isn't it it's the same thing yeah and what was it I mean if you don't mind me just going back to it what was it about institutions is it the following the rules is it feeling judged I don't know I think it's oh that gets really into my head I think that's I'm the eldest of three brothers weird because I was the youngest of three on Tokyo for those years oh yeah Yeah, of course.

35:16Very much. The eldest of three brothers, which brings with it a sort of responsibility to show the way. That's how it's done. They will be pissing themselves laughing if they listen to this right now, because lads, I know, I've never shown you the way in any way. They've both got proper, proper jobs. One's in education in a serious way, and the other one is in finance. So they're the grown-ups. But as the eldest brother, I always felt I should be able to show the way. So coming against a school, it's quite scary. is big I'm fine chat away lads it's okay oh god and I never had the time I don't think I ever actually addressed it I just sort of bluffed my way in from my brother so I think it might be it might be that but that could be horseshit I think that's probably what it is I don't think it is horseshit and this is interesting as well because I we live in a world as you know because you and we can talk about it host a brilliant podcast which I think is very helpful for people's mental health and helps people to look at you and look at the world in a different way but we live in this horrendous like grind slop culture now where it's like be more be better push yourself to the limit get up at 5 a.m don't stop go go go and then one day you'll be happy you know if we've realized anything we've done this podcast for seven years nearly 500 guests almost everyone that sits in the chair that you're sitting in is not content because the and this is you alluded to this at the beginning of the people worst equipped for success and those that want it so badly you know the people sitting where you sit don't feel contentment and that's the reason why they're sitting there because there's this constant need for more all the time and i think it's an important message for young people especially listening to this thinking well if i just get successful like richard hammer was on top gear all the pain goes away all the joy arrives and all the success is here i'd love you to tell them the truth actually about what success does or doesn't do to someone yeah it's exactly right if if success means feeding the things in you that aren't particularly brilliant.

37:09That is not, I don't know what it's cracked up to be. I've certainly learnt in the walking away from Grand Tour since it's ended. I suppose the best way to put it across is anecdote, isn't it? For instance, so I now live in Abergavenny, moved to a new town. And if you're on the telly, moving to a new town, you know what I mean. Yes. I'm now far braver and do things I would never have done. I'm no less famous, but I will. Well, I went to get my hair cut the other day, and lovely Tommy, he cuts it. He cuts it after hours at six o 'clock. This is Abergavenna. I can walk there from my house. So I walked in, and Tommy was a job had run on.

37:51He said, oh, sorry, love. I've got, I'm cutting this lady's hair. It'll give him another half hour. He said, well, why don't you go to the wine bar next door? I'm going to get yourself a glass of wine. I said, oh, I will. Now, I wouldn't have done that in a million years, and that's a shame because it would have held me back. So I actually potted into the wine bar next door and said, all right, have a nice glass of Sancerre, please. Thank you very much. Sat in the garden, couple there, got chatting to them. Another couple arrived. Turns out they live nearly next door to me. Next thing I know, we're all in the yard at the back of the wine bar having a lovely conversation.

38:23Not about being on the telly, not about what's it like working with Jeremy Clarkson, what's the fastest car you've ever driven, what do you think of electric cars, all in one breath. None of that. Just having a chat. about Abergavenna. I didn't want to go back and have my haircut. I wanted to carry on. Now, that comes from a place of realising I'm not carrying this, I'm on a really big TV show thing with me the whole time. And you can't expect people to treat you. Yeah. Totally normally. Unless you treat yourself normally. That's really the case. And so because I could shuffle in and think, I've got to be right in the world to sit on my own and have a glass of wine to kill half an hour before I have my haircut.

39:01Everybody has. I had an absolutely lovely time. But hopefully from that you can hear how the job, maybe also because, as I think we're agreed, the worst people to achieve that kind of success are the only ones who ever will. And that's because it will be feeding the aspects of them that are not particularly healthy and they'll be the least able to cope with the rewards when they arrive. So stepping away from it is quite hard, but bloody rewarding. I'm loving it. I mean, I don't forget, I've also, in the last two years, lost my father, my dog, my marriage, my house. And lost a chunk of the money I earned from the grand tour.

39:42And I don't give a shit. The happiest I've been in years was living in a rented cottage, my divorce cottage. That's interesting. I loved it. A mate of mine called Peter Clay runs a big estate. Peter? Yes. You know how sometimes a chap needs to no longer live where he lives? Quite suddenly. And he laughs. Yeah. yeah dear rich yeah bad luck i said you can't do where to rent he owns this huge state and see i've got just a place for you and he rented me this beautiful little tiny little farmhouse called camp farm which caused some considerable amusement amongst my friends obviously uh and i lived there for like a year and i bloody loved it no furniture really to speak of bits and pieces um bit drafty winter yeah but when friends came over they came over to see me not the house not the collection of cars because that all gone nothing me and i loved you know i cook a sunday i love i actually love cooking despite what happens on top here um so i'll cook a sunday rose for like 14 of us and have to bring the outside table in and move all the furniture to get one in and it was just i loved it absolutely adored it very very happy times rather interestingly a really good friend of mine just as a side anecdote um hadrian who owns the um the workshop that i rent he's my landlord i was his landlord for a while he was renting a cottage on the house that i used to own and i rang him and said h um i'm gonna lose the house so i'm really sorry mate you're gonna have to he was getting divorced at the time as well that's why he was renting a cottage my cottage i'm gonna it's not gonna be mine so i think you need to start looking do you want me to ask peter if he can find something for you.

41:22And he's the one who'd last loudest and longest at my moving into Camp Farm. So I rang Pete and said, Pete, have you got anything for Hayes? Oh, yeah, yeah, I've got just the place. And it's a beautiful, beautiful cottage called Lady Garden Cottage. You are joking. It actually is. So we laughed. I'm going to say for three weeks, solid about that. Yeah. Yeah. But I was blissfully happy. I loved it. We're still going to have a conversation with a man who has walked away from some big things in his life, but perhaps is happier than he's ever been before. So stay with us if you want to think again about what success in life actually looks like.

42:02Enjoying high performance, but you want to enjoy it without the ads? Well, you can sign up for a free trial to go with no adverts at all. You can do it on Apple, Spotify, or on the high performance website. Give it a go now.

42:20Order effortless. Switch to ShipStation before peak season so you're prepped and ready before the rush hits. ShipStation connects Shopify, Amazon, TikTok Shop, and over 200 more marketplaces with one platform that does it all. You can manage orders, sync inventory, track returns, all automatically. Everything your operation needs, all in one place. Upgrade your shipping operations to stress-proof your biggest sales days and capture every bit of potential revenue. Go to ShipStation.com and use code AUDIO and get 30 days free. This is a paid partnership with Apple Card. The coolest flex at brunch these days is not the Bloody Mary with the bottomless gold flake caviar topping.

42:53It's not whipping out your wallet to pay. It's not having a wallet at all. Jack's been an Apple Card user since 2019. That's the same year he tossed his wallet in the trash. Because Apple Card holders earn 2 % daily cash back on purchases made using Apple Pay. It's the only credit card designed for the iPhone. I tap to pay with Apple Card at the grocery store, at the gas station, at restaurants. And yes, I use it at my second home, the farmer's market. Jack tapping to pay with his Apple Card with Apple Pay is his favorite thing to do. And the pleasant vibration and chime sound means I just got 2 % daily cash back on my latest purchase.

43:25Apply in the wallet app on your iPhone today. Subject to credit approval. Apple Card issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA, Salt Lake City Branch. Terms and more at applecard.com.

43:37This is interesting, though, that all the things that you thought would make you happy for so many years were the bigger houses and the bigger TV shows and all the things that we think make people happy. Yeah. You know, great relationships and stability. And there were people, again, listening to this, who were going through a difficult time thinking happiness is never going to be something that I can relate to ever again. Why would we find not just happiness, but almost more happiness in the things that we always thought we tried to avoid? Every bit of research, isn't it, says the biggest contributor to happiness is social groups and friendship.

44:09with social animals it just is you can't get around that it's your mates it's for me cooking a Sunday roast for my mates was that's an expression of love to your friends but you could have still done that in the years before yeah I was in a different place you're absolutely right and I don't know why I didn't I don't know what changed something changed in me maybe in that year of everything upside down yeah even a bloody dog died somebody reminded me about that the other day it's like come on that was a real how old oh she was it was time to go she was a border collie called blee absolute legend everything you've ever been through you've survived and i think sometimes we lose sight of that look how much stronger you might be than you actually thought you were yep and we all have um because we're all those of us who are all still here are lucky to be here it's like if you look at male lions and this is no reflection it's better to be male or female it's just it happens to be male lions because they're idiots and kill each other it's a bloody miracle if you're alive and for any of us having this conversation listening to this conversation being part of this conversation it's a stone-cold miracle to start with that we're here that this particular clump of matter has coagulated in such a fashion with some energy thrown in that it leads to the very concept of you participating in this that we're now doing is bloody amazing and it's of being born.

45:36The odds of being born? Yeah. 400 trillion to one? Yeah. So you're already a winner. So that's just being born, but being born and then living the life that you've lived for all of us, and then we end up in this room at this moment in time. I mean, it's... But also on that, and I don't want to, because this sort of is at the very heart of the start point for what you do, I know, but, you know, in terms of performance achievement, what is the full spectrum of possibility for human achievement beyond born, take a shit, procreate, die.

46:11Really, actually, you might do stuff that contributes hugely towards humanity. That's your own species. It means more people can be born, take a shit, procreate, die. That's it. Look after the planet. The planet doesn't really give a crap. It only matters in terms of can we live on it. That's kind of important. But that still only matters to more people who are going to do those same four things. I don't think, whether you are a president, a pop star, it doesn't make any comfort and the enjoyment of the experience. Yes, and it's very easy for three middle-aged, white, privileged males to sit in a lovely studio and say, I think we get too caught up on money and respect and status.

46:53I don't think it really matters. I'd be happy living. Really? Would you? Would you? I made a total screw up on Top Gear once and made a joke. I'm not remotely, nobody on Top Gear ever was actually racist, homophobic, sexist. People who attributed us to all those lads called, oh, you know what you guys are like? Women in cars. What? Find us anything that backs it up. We've never, we're not. I made a joke that was kind of the joke I'd make amongst my friends because it was...

47:30And we got a bit of a backlash about it being homophobic. Now, I'm not, genuinely not. But then I looked at the joke and realised, oh, shit, actually, it's fine if you're in my lovely bubble where there are no isms or ists. But if you're a 15-year-old Scottish lad living in a tenement somewhere who needs to tell his father he's gay and he's going to get the crap kicked out of him. It ain't funny. So context is really important. The thing I regret about the BBC, and this is before podcasts and things were more prolific, that should have opened a conversation and I would happily have stepped into it.

48:13I'd happily have gone there, let people beat the crap out of me and say, do you know what, you're right and I'm really sorry. I'd said that in the context of where I live. But where you live, it ain't funny. It wasn't. So let's all of us correct that and share it. And what did you do instead? Just shut down and said nothing? The BBC hung us out to dry and we were just left on our own. Yeah, it was sort of a hid. Which is such a shame because, again, if there were a national broadcasting, some sort of national broadcaster, in which we could have those discussions, it would be brilliant. Because, right, we've all got feelings about this.

48:44Cultural appropriation. But there are platforms like this and platforms like your podcast. Now there are. There weren't then. Now there are. And I think it's really valuable and really important because so often conversation is the bit that happens between thought and action, isn't it? So you have a thought. It's best if you don't just go out and do it generally. Talk it out because it might turn out to be offensive, dangerous, illegal, impossible, ill-advised, whatever. Talk about it before you do it. It's really important. So can I ask you about, like, you've offered two insights here and maybe it's the bit in between the thought and action from what you've said.

49:20So we've established that like the people that want fame and are driven and will do everything to get there are probably the least equipped for it. And then you sat in that wine bar courtyard talking and just feeling entirely content and happy. And you said that the demons that you might have had that propelled you to success, you feel like you've addressed them. What have you done in that gap then? So can you give us some examples of the kind of work you've done to be able to address some of those demons and find that happiness? God, I mean, maturity helps, distractions, engagement with real life.

49:59Everybody can be happy if you're on a sun-soaked beach, whether you're on your annual holiday or you spend your life on super yachts. Everybody can be happy in those moments. But can you be happy in the tins aisle of your local supermarket? Because that's where most of your life's spent. Most of us. I think I'd got disconnected from that a little bit. But now that's where I'm happiest, actually. The glue, the ordinary bits of life in between. Did you have therapy or anything? After leaving? No. So you worked all this out? I did. There was some therapy around divorce was happening. Yeah. Yeah, but I have had, yeah.

50:47I have had some therapy, yeah. And loved it. Absolutely adored it. I don't want to become one of those people who just started using therapy speak. I'm not a therapist. I'm not a counsellor. I don't know anything about it, but I know it bloody works. Actually, the best therapy we used to have when I was living out of the house in the big barn, where I also kept my motorcycles, a load of my local mates, our usual Thursday night drinking club, we suddenly realised, well, a lot of them rode bikes. Didn't actually have bikes, some of them. So we'd all go to my house. I had about a lot of bikes. so we'd all meet at mine and then go out bike riding then come back and I'd cook a big breakfast for us all and sometimes it might run on into the evening and we openly acknowledged it by the end that it was therapy just chatting as a known fact isn't that actually for blokes being amongst blokes is good for us and women amongst women so we were just the very act of sharing and talking about your day well topic here in the grand tour was probably therapy for you as well for many years I imagine of a different sort but you as the three of you travelling the world Yeah, we did, yeah.

51:48I mean, looking back, there was a familiarity to it. Yeah. And what I said at the beginning about when the director said action and we immediately all three inhabited that same space, it was as though we'd been in it all along. All my life I've said there's a 16-year-old version of me out there riding a motorcycle. And whenever I ride a motorcycle now, I meet up with them. I am that version. Because you're on your own, you're in your own space, and it's just wonderful. I love it. there was equally a version of the three of us out on those trips at any given time there is now but i can't go and inhabit it anymore yeah but it was wonderful when we could yeah but in many ways you don't need to because as you've already said you're the happiest you've been yeah in years and i think that's an important message for people because i i certainly wondered how happy you would be because like you a lot of my self-worth was attributed to being on the television winning baftas hosting f1 doing and as soon as all that ended it ended for me pretty abruptly there was a definite period of who am i without that there was a definite danger of that because you know if you walk into if you're on a huge tv show do you just walk into a room or do you walk into a room as the guy off that huge tv show it does come with you yeah um so there was some of that to deal with.

53:06I'm loving, I know a small TV show now, about my little classic car restoration business. Richard Hammond's Workshop. That's the fella. And it's on a tight, that's not, I'm not honestly not saying this to plug, I'm saying this because it's such a joy. Yeah. The lads on this show saw the guys from the Grand Tour scale when Jeremy came over to do a little bit with his, my guys were like, what, what is going on? Oh, that's catering. What? That's, oh yeah, that's digital ingest what they're just there to load the rushes you're talking about when Clarkson's Farm came to the smallest club my crew I've got well Chris and Leon on camera wouldn't it be bothered a guy called James who gets us Greggs for lunch and that's it we are small where does your ego sit in that I love it I mean there were a hundred of us pretty much on the big trips by the end of it certainly 70, 80, 90 when we were travelling across deserts it was a village and people, oh did you really stay in tents it's the Namib Desert yes but there had to be two of these units because there were gravel paths between where the tents were we had two baristas and a pastry chef on the last one we did it was not roughing it and we three were the guys on camera but we knew everybody because we'd spent 20 years with them.

54:31I've sat on borders between countries watching them kill six hours by throwing stones at a tin can in a car park. We've been through it. We've been jungles, glaciers, deserts, all of it together. So we were bonded. But the ego was still there because we were the ones on camera, I suppose. We couldn't have much ego there, though. If I started being egotistical around Sam and I've worked with for 20 years, it's going to tell me to do one. But it's also, I think that life isn't a real life. Like it's not real to be in those places with those setups and those crews and the adulation. Whereas what you do now, I think is like your podcast is very real, the smallest cog.

55:14And we can talk about that because you put your own money into it. It's a real business. But Richard Hammond's workshop, when I watch it, it feels real. It doesn't feel made for television. It's like, that's what you've found. You've found the real you maybe. One of the things that damaged was for 26 years, I lived at one end of the M4 and my work was at the other end. So when I was at work, there was always part of me anxious not to get lost in TV, which is a thing that does happen. So I worked really hard. Whenever I was there, I'd be thinking, right, I'm not lost in TV. I'm actually, I'm a father of two.

55:51I live out in the country on the other end of the M4. That's where my heart is. now I've got to stay here this week because we're setting up this film and blah blah blah but that's where my heart is but then quite often I'd drive home and struggle to connect there because my heart would be you know in the desert walking into a tent full of people that are there to film me doing something it was quite hard to remain I lost connection maybe with the supermarket and the laundry which is really important and then what does that cost you that means well it meant I was never in the right place whichever for me whichever end of the m4 I was in I belonged at the other end whereas I've I've I've cleared that now so I do I do live for the glue in life for the bits that I look forward weirdly to going to the supermarket I genuinely do and in terms of your like the drive yeah with with Richard Harmon's workshop and also actually with the smallest cog is the drive about size and scale and impact and growth and millions?

56:52Or is it about, is it more an internal thing that you're looking for? It's more internal, I guess. I'd like to grow that business. We're working on, well, we've got Series 7 commission now, which is great. So we're just starting to frame that out. But because it's about what the workshop actually does, it's got to be real. Yeah. And I would like to grow the workshop. I would love to build it so that I had a venue where there was a restaurant, a cafe, and a museum of the cars from the show. So that's exactly what you were saying about ambition and drive. But it's not because I want to make gazillions out of it.

57:23I just really like that to exist. Why? Because I think it's the right time for it. A lot of people are realizing that once cars have been demonized for a while, they're thinking, yeah, okay, I'm not a car geek. My younger daughter, Willow, I was talking to her about all this. She's horses, that's all she cares about. not cars, well, art as well. But we were talking when her car came up. I was saying, well, in the future, you might be a car, you just order on your smartphone. And she said, oh, wait a minute. I really like Petunia. What? That was what she called her little polo. I thought, see, there you are.

57:59So actually, you are a fan of this amazing device that enables you to go out and live your life. It moves you physically, so it moves you emotionally. It just does. and more and more of us are going to find ourselves, when we've got a sense that it was under threat, I think rather than those of us who openly love and enjoy cars, we're all gathered around like that, thinking, oh no, please be okay. We then look over our shoulders and realise, bloody hell, there's billions of us. We all like this machine because we need it. So I think it's the right time to broaden it out. I think classic cars as well.

58:30So if I was to ask you, who are you now, stealing a well-known name of a podcast, what would you say to that question? a very lucky I'm going to say middle aged take it thank you man who's been lucky enough to be whose life has encompassed a great many different things I'm very very lucky to have had that happen to me that's mostly it and I will totally take that perhaps sometimes that luck that I have had that breadth of experiences means my view it's going to be very difficult for somebody in a very in a narrower life that hasn't afforded those unbelievable opportunities to align with how i feel because you're absolutely right oh yeah i mean i've always said when people say oh money doesn't make you happy yeah it's easier to say that when you've got or have had some yeah it's um but honestly honestly the fame it's not it's a byproduct of a great job doesn't even make it easy to get a table these days in a restaurant not true I don't know I don't know would I be happy if I weren't treated as special sometimes probably not it's great it's the best part of the job the only thing I will say is my girlfriend had never seen anything I've ever done on TV when I met her and it was brilliant why because I was me totally me she's great do you think um the way that you see the world now would be the same if you hadn't had the accident that you had that I don't know because that was a lot of times staring out rain street hospital windows contemplating my own sanity and emotional state yes and you know brain injury is with me forever In fact, probably, and I do worry about it, will lead to early onset dementia.

1:00:29I very much hope not. But it's entirely possible that it could. You can have scans for that. Have you done that? No, I'm scared to death to do it. But I absolutely should. You haven't done that? No, I absolutely should. But I'm honestly too scared. Because I do lose stuff a lot. I do forget stuff. But that's probably because I'm 56 and not concentrating. Yeah. But I should. It's data, right? And as you know, data informs you to do things. certain things yeah I'm not bad enough when I go for my annual MOT when you go and get mauled about by a doctor and discover it I don't like the results from that I wouldn't like the results from a brain scan but what is it that scares you about whatever the answer would be um because I wouldn't want to know that's what was coming would I no I mean to be fair to be fair if it's happening you're less than aware but it's a bloody struggle some people are lucky and they're happy.

1:01:27It's a bit like I had to have an unpleasant procedure and I said to them before, I've had a few unpleasant procedures, I had kidney stones removed. What goes up there? Oh, a drill. It's a kinetic drill. It's not like a laser. It's a dagga dagga dagga. Think Black and Decker. Oh, yeah. Oh, man. So I'm lying on the bed and there's like all this stuff on the table and I said, oh, I forgot to ask, is this a general anaesthetic? Let me put this another way. if it's a local and any of you come near me I told you with anything on that tray one of us is going to be unconscious make sure it's me to start with so I had that but not this was another instance I had to have another procedure done no more pleasant and I said to them is it a general they said no no no we give you a sedative oh so I'll be conscious yeah yeah yeah why are you doing that to me oh yeah yeah yeah yeah but here's a really clever bit Rich you won't remember anything about it afterwards yeah but I've still got to go through it And it, for me, raises a really interesting question.

1:02:27I know I went through that, and anybody who's had a procedure like that with that particular sedation knows they went through something pretty ghastly, put themselves through it, and can't remember it. But it still happened. Which I suppose reminds us, there's something to say about the fact that the past doesn't exist. just because you can remember or not remember it it's gone the only way in which it exists at all is if it has any influence on what you do now but it still doesn't exist per se but I'm still fascinated by the idea that would I do it now? because I know would you? if somebody says to me right, you're going to have to it's pretty unpleasant it's going to hurt it's going to be nasty and you'll be fully conscious throughout but you won't remember it oh brilliant but I've got it to go through no bloody nothing nothing at all I know at some point I was in a theatre having something really nice I was probably crying and screaming and howling and I don't like this and it's undignified and unpleasant and just because I can't remember it's interesting it's made me think a bit that I'm interested in you're at that juncture you could walk through the equivalent of the White City door to go and find that scan I'm just selfishly scared and also I'd feel oh no Honestly, in terms of my daughters and my family, I'm going to let them down.

1:03:51Oh, God. It's going to be difficult. It's going to be primarily difficult for them. Oh, God. I'd have to tell them. I'd have to ring and say, oh, God. But maybe I should. What could be done about it? Very little. Not really. Are you really happy at the moment? Yes. Would you like to stay in a happy place for a little bit longer? Yeah. Yes. Thanks for that, Mr. Buzzkill over there. Sorry. It's all nice. But you could also be totally wrong and everything could be fine. So then that would be peace of mind. So, hey, who knows? We're going to move on to some quickfire questions in just a moment. But if people have listened, I've really enjoyed this because as is always the case, you have a certain view of someone that you've seen on the telly or you haven't, but I didn't realise quite what a philosopher you are, how deep you are, how reflective you are.

1:04:36You're a Stoic. It's all these lovely things all mixed up here. I don't know what most of that means, but I'm going to assume it's good. No, it's awful. I'll tell you. It's awful. But for people that have listened to this, and had no sort of view of you and what you stood for. And they thought, you know what, I'm going to give Richard Hammond's workshop a go. I'm going to tune into a new series. Yes. What sort of, what's the special word we've created today? Edutainment. What sort of edutainment can they expect from the new season? I'm going to retch every time you see it. It is, it's about, it's a genuine workshop.

1:05:09It's, this series is all about recruiting new skills. We needed some proper, proper, proper skills. And this is real, by the way. You know when you said sometimes on top of you we had to make up some kind of This is not made up And you've put half a million of your own money in as well Yes And since then got divorced so it's not it's not altogether brilliant What was half a million is suddenly a lot more than half a million That's really not good But yeah we've got I've got a new business development manager come in, Roy and his job is to sort of stabilise us which has been interesting so we can get ready to build out so through this series There's amazing cars coming in.

1:05:47And I will say this, actually, for Series 7, this is useful to say. I want to grow the business. I do want to move towards, I want a hub. I want like a little roadhouse where people can come, can see the cars being worked on, maybe do some car storage, maybe even consign some cars for sale. I don't know, celebrate the thing that I love. But also we need cars to work on. It is a real workshop. One of the issues, people sometimes think we're like the repair shop, and you bring your car along and you get 50 grand worth of work done for free. Yeah, I'd have to pay for that and I can't. So it's a normal workshop you have to pay.

1:06:23It's good to make that clear to anyone. I make it incredibly clear from the start. We're not as expensive as some and the work is good, but it does have to be paid for. But we are looking for interesting jobs. You can go to info at smallestcog.com and have a look or the website. Yeah, we really are. because that's for the TV show. We've got work coming in all the time. If you're somebody that, you know, you've got a car with a great story, you want it shared, you're going to do it anyway. Don't let me persuade you to spend money you weren't going to spend. But if you are thinking about it, do get in touch with us because we are looking for interesting stuff to work on.

1:06:59And it is a great TV show. Yeah, we love it. It's fun to do. Okay. Are you ready for some quickfire questions? Brought to you and us by Vitality, life and health insurance provider that proves that we can live up to five years longer through rewarding, healthy living. The three non-negotiable behaviours that are most important to you. Littering. Yep. Rudeness. Very good. And I will put, somebody else has said selfishness, you said, but that kind of, okay, lack of, oh, being in the way. What's the best piece of advice you've ever received and why? My dear late father always used to say, always keep low in a dinghy.

1:07:36Bloody good advice. It really is, because you will fall out of it. So true. You stand in a dinghy, you're going over. It's extremely practical. My brothers, because they do listen to this podcast, Nick and Andy listen to this. Lads, there you go. Always keep low in a dinghy. Best piece of advice ever given me. That place it does. And actually, we can relate that to real life as well. Biggest strength? Work ethic. Yeah. Greatest weakness. Overly self-aware. Self-conscious. Right. Yeah. One habit that's made a big change in your life? running yeah definitely i've always run but for me my brain i used when we're on the trips i used to love it because if you wake up in a tent or wherever you're staying hotel doesn't matter call time is at seven but i'd if you said to yourself i'm getting up at six i'm going for a run you've told yourself you come before the day yeah and you've told the day actually you come before it and i think that's really important so yeah what advice would you give a young richard just starting out um you're going to be lucky but every time you're lucky look at that piece of luck as it lands on your plate and work as hard as you had to have worked to earn it because that's the only way you turn it into solid platform that happens to all of us i've seen that happen in this industry many times to people they get a break the big bit of luck and the next thing you know they believe it rather than shit that's amazing how hard would i have had to work to earn that work that hard and you're building rock underneath you as a foundation when the next piece of luck comes along brilliant i'd tell myself that brilliant fantastic and finally for people that have listened to this fascinating conversation um how would you like to leave them thinking about high performance what's the biggest message you've got for them oh god i really liked when you were talking about um at that moment when when almost when it leaves when the need for it goes do it for fun do it because it's rewarding because it's great because it's exciting but don't need it do it do it because it's it's satisfying it's what we are programmed by the way it's all you're trying to do you're just running after prey that's all you're trying to do and get there first that's where competition comes from isn't it yes so yeah do it revel in it it's essentially human but don't let it own you own it I love that because of the hundreds of people that we've spoken to so many of them are achieving great things with zero joy.

1:10:04And then you have to ask yourself, well, are they high performers? Yeah, yeah. Is that high performance? Well done on the billions in the bank and the adulation. Being miserable is sin. Exactly. Yeah, why do it? Thank you for those. You can find out more about living longer with Vitality at vitality.co.uk, the life and health insurer that uses a behavior change program to incentivize healthy lifestyle choices. Richard Hammond, thank you very much. It's been an absolute pleasure, champs. Thanks for having me on. Damien. Jay. that was uh not the richard hammond that i have met before not the richard hammond that i was expecting but a richard hammond that i uh i really really liked his kind of outlook on the world i think it's a great reminder for people that we can assume that when you're hosting top gear and as he said in the interview like we were like living that like we were loving everything about life at one point it's easy to assume that that's when you're at your happiest but for him to have emerged from that left i had no idea that he didn't want to stop doing the grand tour i thought it was like a group decision obviously wasn't he said he would have carried on so for him to walk away from that and then go through the death of his dad losing his marriage losing his dog like losing his career like the career that he had on those shows and then to still say that he's at his happiest i think it's very powerful for anyone watching this who feels that the things that represent their life are the only things that can make them happy.

1:11:30Yeah, I found it really powerful. I thought it was really quite philosophical and profound in areas. He is quite a philosopher, isn't he? Yeah, definitely. But it was pragmatic as well. You know, like when he spoke about all the research says that the thing that makes us happy is human connections. And then the anecdote of him sat in that wine bar courtyard just connecting with people in his new town. The idea of being happiest on the grand tour is connecting with the crew and with Jeremy and James. I think there's something there about he's telling us that it doesn't matter where you go, what you do.

1:12:04It's about choosing the people that are with you on that journey and finding the time for that connection that I think was what I took away from it. Yeah. And he got to a weird level of fame, like where it's properly intrusive in your life. It takes over everything. But I think I want people to realise that, like he said, being the people worse equipped for success are the ones that want it the most and therefore they're the ones that tend to get it. You know, let's stop lauding this idea that push, push, push, achieve, achieve, achieve, success, success, success and then the happiness comes is the way we should all be living.

1:12:37There's so many lies out there. This is the truth. Thank you very much, mate. Cheers, mate. Loved it. I hope you enjoyed the conversation as well with Richard. We've got so many chats with well-known people that just take us to a place that you're not expecting. We weren't expecting that kind of Richard Hammond I kind of think maybe you now feel the same having watched it. So delve back to the High Performance Archives. Pick someone where you think you have an opinion about them. Watch the conversation and see whether your opinion is the same at the end. I think that is one of the great conversations.

1:13:06Please send it on to someone. If you can share these episodes, it makes such a difference for us. But there is so little content out there like this. So please like, please share, please subscribe, leave a review. It makes a massive difference to us and the whole team. We really appreciate you taking the time to watch the episode. Remain humble, curious, and empathetic. And Damien and I will see you next time.

1:13:48that does it all. You can manage orders, sync inventory, track returns, all automatically. Everything your operation needs, all in one place. Right now, qualified shippers get a real dedicated person to get you set up and switched over for free. So when peak season hits, you're ready to go. Switch today at ShipStation.com code audio. This is a paid partnership with Apple Card. The coolest flex at brunch these days is not the Bloody Mary with the bottomless gold flake caviar topping. It's not whipping out your wallet to pay. It's not having a wallet at all. Jack's been an Apple Card user since 2019.

1:14:19That's the same year he tossed his wallet in the trash. Because Apple Card holders earn 2 % daily cash back on purchases made using Apple Pay. It's the only credit card designed for the iPhone. I tap to pay with Apple Card at the grocery store, at the gas station, at restaurants. And yes, I use it at my second home, the farmer's market. Jack tapping to pay with his Apple Card with Apple Pay is his favorite thing to do. And the pleasant vibration and chime sound means I just got 2 % daily cash back on my latest purchase. Apply in the wallet app on your iPhone today. Subject to credit approval. Apple Card issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA, Salt Lake City Branch.

1:14:53Terms and more at applecard.com. Thank you so much for enjoying today's episode of High Performance. Just a reminder, you can also sign up for our ad-free service at Apple, Spotify, or on the High Performance website.