The 'Hardest Geezer' On Finding Direction When You're Lost | Russ Cook (E418)

0:02This episode of High Performance is brought to you by Bulldog Skincare. In their mission to support everyday skin endurance, Bulldog Skincare are proud to be the official men's skincare partner of Ironman Europe. And our guest today here on High Performance is a true high performer, Russ Cook, or maybe Hardest Geezer, as you might know him. Russ, of course, shot to public fame after completing a number of incredibly impressive feats of endurance, most notably his run across Africa in 2024, which saw him become the first person to run the length of Africa. Over 352 days, Russ covered more than 10 ,000 miles, along the way inspiring so many people as he documented his journey and raised close to a million pounds for charity.

0:44However, he didn't stop there. He's gone on to complete a number of other serious challenges, and as he sits down and talks to me, he's currently training for the Leeds Ironman Triathlon. Yeah, baby. Now look, I haven't competed in an Ironman, but Bulldog Skincare have challenged our guest today to do exactly that, and I'm excited for him. However, in this episode, what I really want to dive into is the mindset around what it actually takes to prepare for something like an Ironman. What is driving Russ, and can he pull it off? How's the training going? Well, I had a baby four weeks ago, so getting a good amount of sleep deprivation training in.

1:22but nah mate I'm really looking forward to the Ironman it's going to be a bit of a different test for me I've done the running before but the swimming and the cycling is a whole new kettle of fish Okay sum up parenthood after four weeks for me Do you know what mate I think if I was talking really honestly when she was born I've never been struck by it literally felt like a lightning rod of emotion I don't know how it was with your kids it sounds quite softy but I've never felt so much love in my heart like I some of my favourite things at the moment are watching Em, my missus, and Poppy, our little girl, just asleep in the mornings or in the evenings.

1:57They're just like cuddled up there asleep. Or I'll dance around with her in the kitchen, send her off where I'll stick Coldplay on the speakers and I'll have a little sing and a dance with her. And there's a real deep sense of fulfillment from the last four weeks, which has been really nice, actually. And this is interesting in the conversation we're having, I think, for you, because motivation is so important to do the things that you do. and I wonder whether having a baby is this whole new layer of motivation, a whole nother reason for what you do. I would definitely think, I mean, I am only four weeks in, but I would definitely think so.

2:30I think it gives a new sort of responsibility as well. You know, it's not, I think even when I look back at some of the challenges that I've done before, like there's definitely an element of I'm doing it for a higher purpose, doing it for other people. But I think now that I've got my little girl in the world, like there's like this sense of, you know, I'm her father, I want to protect her, I want to guide her in all the right ways. And I know that a lot of that is down to how well, you know, what can I do in my own life, you know? Listen, I think a lot of people talk to you about what happened in Africa.

3:01And before this conversation, I obviously listened to you on lots of other podcasts and read lots of articles. And so much focus was about what you learned in Africa, how Africa tested you, where the growth was. And I would like to rewind quite a lot. Sounds great. to when you're 21, you're in Worthing, you've been up since four o 'clock in the morning working as a cleaner, you come home, you open a cupboard, and in that cupboard is a single tin of little new potatoes. Oh, what a time to be alive that was. Take me into that room. I was a bit younger than 21 then, actually. I would say, when I look back on it now, I'd say that was such a pivotal moment for me.

3:39That specific moment in time. Yeah, I don't think I necessarily realised it at the time, but it encapsulates a time in my life where I felt kind of directionless. I had a lot of energy and I had a lot of motivation to do something with my life, but I really didn't know where to apply that. So I think I was really struggling with that. And in that kind of moment, you open the cupboard and you've got a tin of new potatoes for dinner and that's all I had and I had no money to get anything else. It was showing me my almost uselessness. and it just gave me this feeling of like I know that I'm kind of like I feel like helpless and useless and don't know where I'm going but I know I'm at the start of trying to figure that out um so I mean it wasn't for a few years until I've really started making any significant changes but that was definitely a point where I went like one day this feels rubbish now but one day this is going to be worth it and this is going to have meaning this moment so how had you ended up working as a cleaner with no money with only a tin of new potatoes to eat for dinner?

4:39Like what was going on? Because you are like a driven, interesting, dynamic, hardworking, ambitious guy. And we write people off in this world too often. Yeah, yeah. Whereas often the circumstance is just not right for them. So I was about 17, 18 during that time. And I think being, I look back now and I go, being a 17, 18 year old bloke, I mean, I'm sure a girl as well is hard. In that moment, I didn't have any skills, didn't have much life experience. So I was kind of struggling with the fact that I was like, I had all this ambition and motivation, but skill set-wise, I hadn't really figured out my place yet.

5:16And I was kind of bottom of the food chain, as it were. So, you know, what jobs can I get? At 17, 18, the only jobs I could get was cleaning jobs. It was minimum wage scrubbing a waitrose toilet at four in the morning. But interestingly, you talk about I was super ambitious. I knew I wanted to do something. Yeah. What did the ambition look like at that point? Do you know what, actually how it manifested was, in a lot of ways, like an arrogance. I didn't want to listen to people that, if I looked at someone's life and I would look at, I would say this, we're a bit ashamed now, but I would look at my parents or maybe some other adults around me, some of my teachers at school, and I'd go, well, I don't really want your life, so I ain't listening to you.

5:54And I kind of just applied that logic to a lot of people that I would encounter that were older. So that kind of ends up leading me down quite an isolated path because I'm no longer really trying to take direction off people that I don't deem valuable enough or live in a life that I want to live. So I'm not going to listen to you. And that kind of was a blessing and a curse. It led me down quite a lonely path to start with. But then once I was, you know, I was born in that sort of age where podcasts were coming through at that time and I was listening to the Joe Rogans and these type of, and I was thinking, you are living a life that I've got.

6:25So I am going to listen to this. and that kind of was a really important start of, you know, kick-starting me and my thinking in that way. I think we've got a bit of an issue where, particularly for young guys, they are a little bit unsure about what their place looks like in society now. I think it's a huge problem, yeah, yeah. And I get the sense that you were kind of in that place. Massively, yeah. Massively, I think, you know, it wasn't necessarily an information problem. Like, we have access to an amazing amount of information now. It was a bit more of a direction problem. I didn't know what direction do I want to head in.

6:58And that's a bit of a rite of passage for a young man, I think, is finding that direction. So here's my question then. If you could rewind the clock and leave school, know the direction and immediately begin, which is what all parents want for their children. Oh, leave school, have an idea of what you want to do. What do we say to 13-year-olds? What do you want to be when you're older? Oh my goodness. It's the worst question you could ask a young person because they should be available to explore. If I could remove that period of your life and take you straight from school to a sense of fulfillment and a purpose and a career, would you take that opportunity?

7:34No. Why not? Because I think that it's really valuable to come to that conclusion through the mistakes. They keep you in line. I know now that gambling is a bad thing for me to do because I've been there, I've spunked all my wages month after month on roulette and Akers at the weekend, that's deeply entrenched, but I know that's silly. Whereas if I never had done that, then I wouldn't. So I've done that in so many different verticals. I've done that with the party and with the drinking, with the sitting down on a Sunday morning after a hangover with the Domino's and the pizza and the ice cream in bed forever and just wishing, oh, I wish this was my life.

8:17And now I know. It's like, no, no, you can have your comfort moments, but it's not good for you and it's not what you want either. I wouldn't change it looking back at all now. I just wish that I'd been told when I was 17, embarrassment is the price of entry. Yeah, yeah. Failure is the price of ambition. Be embarrassed and fail. Yeah, but we go again, don't we? Exactly, well you did. So let's talk about the moment that you went again. Yeah. Oh, I guess there was a lot of going against to be fair. I think that's quite an interesting part of the journey because people see like the run in the Africa thing or whatever and they think, oh, wow, that was, you know, did that.

8:55But I'm like, mate, I literally, and even since then, I'm constantly failing at things that I'm trying to do. So, yeah, I mean, the going again, what, from the tin of new potatoes? Yeah, let's go from that moment. Yeah, just a few of them. So from, I think I didn't even have the bravery or courage at that point to really start looking at the places that were going to be successful. I was going for all the easy ones first. So I would do the partying, the drinking, going out, doing the things that I shouldn't be doing. Those were all of those kind of like quick, I'm searching for like little dopamine hits.

9:32I'm like, oh, is that going to make me feel better? Is that going to make me feel better? I remember I ran back from a nightclub in Brighton and then that was 11 miles after a night out. And my mate texted me after that saying, come and run Brighton half marathon and then we'll do the full marathon after. And it was actually the process of just training for one marathon that really showed me a different path it was like okay you know you've got a challenge you've got a test you've got to train for it you've got to be disciplined to accomplish it um you've got to be motivated you need to believe in yourself you need to push through hard things that was like the real start for me of unlocking like a new perspective on it um and then I kind of you know ran with that really but I do feel that there was a real value you in those hard times and I think sometimes people look at those hard times I think well that was there to give him the energy to go and do what he did in Africa and all the other things you've done but I actually think you would have learned a huge amount about yourself in that difficult time what what were the big things that you learned about Ross or about the hardest geezer in those difficult days god that's really do you know what I'm not sure I've actually thought about this too much though it's a really interesting one to try and unpack so you're talking about like the gambling, the cult, like if I, you know, I really go back, it's like quite dark days to go back to, but I remember, I remember one day after I'd been on a gambling, bit of a gambling spiral and spent, I think I'd spent about two grand, which was like my whole, everything I had.

11:01And it was like, you know, my whole monthly wages and I couldn't afford to pay the rent and I was living with my girlfriend at the time in a house and I had to lie to her to borrow rent money. It's a shame. Yeah, yeah. And that deep sense of shame, I think. I mean, what that moment showed me really is that like I had a responsibility in that time to someone that I really cared about and my actions alone had really let them down. and then I like tried to cover it up by lying which is something I knew was knew was wrong but I did it anyway because of the shame that I was feeling and I think that even in that moment that showed me how important like responsibility is especially to people you care about that person's around me and I've let them down and it kind of that was such a pain that it did it pained me enough to know that I need to change this, you know.

11:59So I think that would be a big one that I would pinpoint and go, that was a tough one, that. Yeah, and I can see even now it gets you, right? Yeah, yeah. Like, wow, I can't believe that I would let myself get to that kind of position. But, you know, c 'est la vie, that's the journey of life and hopefully I'm a better person now for it. There's one thing that I think is really interesting in your story at this point, which is that you've been through the tough times, you've run home from the nightclub. That feels like a seminal moment. Yeah. Your mates that do the Brighton Half Marathon. Yeah. There's a big difference between doing the Brighton Half Marathon and running across Africa.

12:33Yeah, yeah. Well, there is and there's not, though. Really? Well, I would say, like, it's the same fundamental skills, just on a bigger scale, you know. What gave you the belief that you were the guy that can do that on a really big scale? Because most people wouldn't even consider that. So I did the Brighton Fall Marathon and then from then I was training a lot pretty much every day. And I'd kind of gone on this run of building self-esteem, building belief in myself. Just more than anything, just by going out and doing the work, I was building my evidence that I am who I say I am. It was naturally building in me and it got to a point where I was like, right, I'm sick of the cleaning jobs that aren't giving my life any meaning.

13:17and I'm sick of just living in the routine that also feels meaningless. So I'm going to, I need inspiration. I'm going to go out. I'm going to quit everything, saved up a couple grand and I just, one way flights just around the world, just hoping to be inspired really more than anything. And then it was that journey that I went to Kenya, started running with all these big dog Kenyans that were absolutely rapid and then met this Italian man who'd been cycling around the world. and it was just a conversation with him that was way out of the zone of conversations I had or role models that I'd had in my life before and you know he had a bike and a panty bag and he had all his possessions in in in his bag and he'd just camp around and it sounded mental to me at the time and it often sounds mental to people that you know don't live in that world when I tell them the story they're like this guy just six years just six years got a long time you know and he just gave me a new perspective on life that I took and just thought right I'm going to apply that I could do something like that I would love that I would love the adventure I'd love to see what I'm made of I would love the challenge of it and it was then I decided right I'm going to run home from Asia and I just packed a camelback for a hammock and phone charger and a bar of soap and a toothbrush and I thought can I do it I think I've got the resilience for it I think I've got the grittiness for it but we are going to find out that's the adventure we are going to see what I'm made of in this moment.

14:38I'm going to find out who I really am. And I was just pulled towards that. I got through it. It was 71 marathons in 66 days at that time but I was fully by myself. 11 different countries camping in the woods every night. I had a bunch of different challenges there and then I finished that with this kind of like rock steady sense of if I apply myself I believe I can do anything on this scale. And that's when I thought of Africa. And that's the great thing about doing hard things. Yeah, yeah. You're just building up a body of evidence that you can do hard things. Yeah. And I love this idea where you said, you said something there, you said, people who are not in his world think it's mad when you're talking about the guy that cycled across the world with his pannier.

15:25And this is where I think it's all about perception and the way that we're all brought up. Like we're told, well, you want to live a good life? Okay, great. Get a job. Yeah. Do that job for life. Pay your taxes. Buy a house. When you buy a house, you can have kids. when you've bought a house and had kids, you can buy a nice car and then you can eventually retire. And then you look at people like this guy who you'd say lives on the edge of society in so many ways. But who's the person who's got it right? That guy who's exploring and is content and is challenging himself. We look at the two and go, he's a bit weird because he does something different.

15:58It's the least weird thing for a human being because we used to be explorers, right? And we just stopped exploring. Yeah. No, I would agree. I mean, just like everything, there's a balance and nuance to it all because that's probably a thought that I really doubled down on super hard. And then obviously I've come up with this idea, right, I'm going to do African. It's going to be the most difficult, demanding, challenging thing I've ever done. And, you know, it's dangerous and there's all these things that might happen. And I think what I did find is that challenge and a test is a really important part of being a human, I think, and maturing as a person.

16:32but there is you know I've poked around at the limits of those kind of things and you can kind of delve into the realm of like traumatizing yourself or you know if you push too hard then actually it can be damaging you know so it's like finding that right balance you want the adequate challenge you don't want to nearly die or you know these kind of things so I think for me that's just like the nuance I put on is like challenge is super important I'm a huge promoter of challenging yourself. But there's limits, just like everything, there's limits to all this kind of stuff where it starts becoming a damage, where it starts becoming a problem.

17:11And did you get to that point? Because I'm sure I remember seeing an interview with you where you said, well, if I die, I die. Yeah. Yeah, I met. That's 100 % the belief. When I started Projects Africa, it was around Africa or I'd die trying. I really did mean that. But I also think that living that mindset taught me why that's not actually a great mindset to have it's amazing if if you're looking to get things done quickly you you're optimizing for achievement which i probably was at that time in my life like having that achievement would would really meant something to me but i think i'm in a slightly different season of life now and it's like okay i have a responsibility to other people around me i also like a community is much more important part family and these things are more important to me and go and just sort of throw my life, risking my life like it doesn't mean anything is actually foolish.

18:03It's not a wise thing to do. Like I've been blessed with the opportunity of life and it feels somewhat noble to go, I will die for this game. But to say that would be to say that my life hasn't got the inherent value that I think a life does. Achievement's not everything, you know. You are totally correct. Yeah. but again a bit like that young guy who was staring at that tin of potatoes yeah trying to work out the way forward yeah yeah and the only way forward was to explore you've had to explore it to reach this point 100 yeah yeah and that's i think one of the biggest takeaways so far from this conversation is the power of exploration asking questions of yourself and as well as other people yeah well i think it's different it's just different seasons it's like that season I had this ferociousness and tenacity which I think is really powerful for young people in general is like the facts are you're kind of a bit stupid you don't have the wisdom yet to know which direction to go in but you kind of replace it with this just like ferociousness for life which is valuable which is super valuable and I would never want to put that fire out in someone but I think just part of the arc is then realising that that ferociousness needs to be tamed and guided in certain ways because if it is left to just manifest in whatever way you want it to, then it will, I'm literally a walking example of this, it will take you down some paths that maybe you don't want to go down, or maybe are not wise to go down.

19:32So I think when that ferociousness matures, it's like you just start having the wisdom to go, maybe I'm not trying to die in the Congo rainforest today. Maybe I do want to have kids and a family and grow old. Okay, let's talk training now, because preparation obviously is key. Bulldog get that, which is why their products are all about helping men show up looking and feeling their best every day, whether that's the original moisturizer for daily hydration or the original face wash to feel fresh before and after your serious workout. So let's talk then about training. Before you get your body right, how do you make sure you've got the right mindset to approach training?

20:09I mean, it sounds like it was an all or nothing mindset. It was very much an all or nothing mindset. Like I said there, it was a run africa or die try and kind of situation for me at the time um so i was giving it everything i had but i also think that this is something maybe people don't understand so much about the project itself is that running was was just one tiny part of getting that project underway so yes i was running a lot i was running to 200 250k miles a week at kilometers a week even um but i was also like high focus on like right i've got no money and i need to basically build a business alongside this to fund the whole thing and i also need to recruit a team that are going to help me with this and i need to grow an audience online that can help the business that can help this whole thing function so i was like i was spread across a few different areas you know but running was the bread and butter i had to get the running done otherwise this whole thing was never going anywhere to start with so 250k a week was sort of my baseline mileage i'll be doing and that's interesting because people have focused on the running like the incredible insane ridiculous distances that you were covering.

21:18But they haven't really thought very much or spoken very much. I don't think you have either about the additional challenge of creating the content, building the brand, finding businesses to partner with. So I'm interested where even the idea to do that came from. Does that go back again to the podcast you were listening to? Like the conversation with Joe Rogan that you might have heard about what it takes to build a brand? A little bit. I mean, I was probably on that sort of self-development arc as a young guy trying to find I'm trying to look for that direction. So I was pulling bits and pieces in from that area.

21:49I think one person I met that was actually pretty important in just opening up that sort of way of looking things was a guy called Zach Allsop. I don't know if you've heard of him, a YouTuber, really successful guy, makes great videos. And I met him and he started talking to me a lot because I didn't know how media worked at all. I didn't really have a Scoobies about any of this whole stuff. And he was a YouTuber and he was like, right, if you make content, you build an audience, and these brands, look how much money these brands will give you to do this. And I was like, shit, that's how I fund it.

22:20I don't go and work a job, a cleaning job for minimum wage and just save as much as I can and then go and do it. I build a business around this, but it was my first sort of like time really thinking about it. So I'm going through the motions with it all. But I think the one thing that was the most important to me at the time and that was one of the biggest reasons that it was successful is that I really believed in the vision and I sold the vision to people that could come and help. And that was like, if there was nothing else I could do, that was like my job was like to tell people, right, I'm going to be the first person to run the Nank for Africa.

22:55We're going to raise a million pounds for charity and we're going to make content that's going to inspire a bunch of people to go and get after their own life, take on the adventure of their lives in the meantime. I need you, the videographer, you, the editor. You guys are fundamental. I need you. And together, we're going to be a part of something that's like amazing. So yeah, I mean, it was really selling that vision to, but I mean, the boys came in at the start, they were just like, they're just starting off in their own careers, you know, so I was pitching to the right people. I wasn't trying to get after your crew that had been, you know, cushy jobs in London, happy days, they don't need it.

23:28Cushy jobs, guys. Would you say your jobs are cushy? You don't know what we're paying them. I needed the people that were like me, that needed the opportunity, they wanted to make something of their lives. So that's, you know, selling that vision to the team was like, that was huge. And then once we started getting the help in, it was like, right, now we're really starting to build some momentum now, you know. But there's that energy once again. Yeah, yeah. And your energy was suddenly directed in the right place. Yeah. It wasn't, you needed more energy than you needed when you were 17 or 18. No.

24:01You had the energy then, but you were putting it into gambling, clubbing. I was becoming wiser. That's, you know, that's the… Then it takes time. It takes time, yeah. That's it. You can't, you just have to, you know, it's like you said. you pay for the experience with failure so you just fail fail fail fail fail and it's like next time I failed a little bit less get in you know but yeah it's just that tenacity tenacity ferociousness go go go go and why do you think people cottoned on to your story because doing endurance events is not rare anymore doing an endurance event that genuinely does what you said you know the raising of the money for charity doing something that no one has ever done before but also raising awareness of what you're doing because the income from the brands doesn't happen if no one knows you're doing it the millions of pounds for charity doesn't happen if no one's doing it I guess you still do the run but I wonder whether even that would have felt a bit empty if you'd have got home and gone alright no one realises what I've achieved here that's kind of I'm sure it would have done to a certain extent yeah I mean so why you why did people latch onto the Hardest Giza was it because you were called the Hardest Giza maybe it was like branding was probably a certain element of it you know Hardest Giza is quite like big ginger beard white boy running in africa and you know it's quite funny there's i mean there's so many things that go into i do think even from a timing point of view i think we're particularly sort of entering an era of culture where people are looking for that direction a bit i think like the rising of like the things like the manosphere people listening to podcasts more people like people want you can feel people want to be guided they want that direction they want the inspiration so I think maybe that it was a good era of like people wanted to be inspired so I was that you know here's a story that you can be inspired by sort of thing that probably helped um I think a lot of times on these endurance big expeditions before you'd have the category of someone funded by big tv doing it and it was all and you know and they would be super successful missions and people would love watching it but on the like social side of it you would you'd have people that have maybe clawed a bit of funding together themselves, but they've just got enough funding to do it.

26:07They haven't really thought about telling the story outside of their own little world. So I think I thought about it, right, we're going to tell the story, we're going to try and put together a good story. And it was still ragtag as, you know, I had three boys living in a van, but we were really focused on how do we document this and put it out into the world in a way that people are going to want to at least try and half engage with. So we did think about it a lot. and I think that was probably unique at the time because not many people would have done the running and then gone, right, what video should we make on this?

26:40So who inspired you to do that part properly? Because I can imagine a lot of people go, look, I'm just going to do the running, you film it and that will be enough. But you knew there was more to it than this. Like the thing you said numerous times, tell the story. The story was not that you ran across Africa. It was so much deeper than that. Yeah, I would look at this as a blessing for the position I was in because I was, I'm a working class lad that didn't have the money to do it anyway. I wouldn't have been able to do it. So I think that actually ended up being a really important component.

27:10It's not like, oh, I was doing it and I could decide whether I was documenting it or not. It was like, if you want to do it, you must document it to give yourself a chance of funding it. So I didn't have a choice. But the fact that I didn't have a choice meant that I did document it. And then the fact that I documented it meant that we had the money to make it happen. So, yeah. I think that also documenting it did something else very important that I'm sure you've thought about, which is that suddenly you had a contract with the public. I remember seeing you and thinking, oh, I look forward to seeing whether this guy completes this challenge or not.

27:45There's nowhere to hide when you tell the world what you're doing. How important was that for your mindset? Huge. Accountability is massive. I always say it's one of my first pieces of advice I give to people is if they want to do something really hard, I'd like to tell as many people as possible about what you're trying to do because it'll just box you in and just burn the boats. There is no... If you have in the back of your mind this little get out clause, this little back door, I could just, you know, things are hard now. I'm in Angola. I've been running for two months. I'm injured a little bit.

28:12If there is a back door, you best fucking believe that I'm going through the back door. I'm doing it, right? Because I am not God and I am, you know, I feel painless as everyone else feels pain and if you press down hard enough on that pain and there's an exit door, I'm out of the exit door. So I think understanding that as a human, that is going to happen, that is how it is. It's just my mindset going in was like, right, remove as many exit doors as possible. The more exit doors there is, the more chance I'm going to take when I do not want that. So accountability is a massive one. You've got a social contract with people.

28:49Now we're uploading content. If I just stopped uploading content and said I'm quitting, I've got at that point now hundreds of thousands of people that would be like, what are you doing lad I've also got charities that I'm donating that we're raising money for which is a purpose it's more than ego it's more than the status of the achievement itself it's actually this project is now gonna gonna help people more like in a way that's bigger than me so I think you know those two things got family back home I've got boys that I've sold a dream to sold this big vision to that I need to deliver on for mate I'm penned in I'm penned in so much to the point where the amount that I can tolerate the amount of suffering and I'll tolerate is now exponentially higher than it ever would have been if it was back to me in a hammock in the middle of Bulgaria on my ones that no one knew about.

29:36So yeah, mate, I can't talk enough about accountability. It's so important, so, so important. You're also a guy that had experienced your fair share of shame. Yes. And I imagine the last thing that you needed was more shame. No, exactly that. And even that, that's like a, you know, I wanted to prove myself right. But it's almost like a redemption story for all of the times in my life where I didn't deliver on the thing that I said I wanted to do. I wasn't behaving like the person I wanted to be. I had in that moment there an opportunity to be the man that I wanted to be and also have a bunch of people see it.

30:13Just quite a motivating, powerful force that day. and I think there are some things that you did as well which I'd love to explore in terms of a very different side of motivation like that is almost like what you've just spoken about there is almost like a painful motivation it's like an angry persistence it's always there it's like whereas I know that you broke the rundown into small chunks I'd love to talk about how you knew that was the right thing to do and what that did for you but also this idea of a zen garden that you created because no one can live with that amount of pressure constantly so you had to find an escape and the escape was it in your own head that is what running has eventually become for me is like my little meditation time and for me as well like i'm i'm a believer in god and it's that running will often be sort of my time with god which has turned out to be like quite a beautiful experience too so yeah i mean you hold both things right like it's the carrot and the stick you're you're the stick is the horrible gritty stuff the proving the people wrong and blah blah blah and then you have this carrot of I want to not only just run away from things I want to run into something good I want to you know progress and be better and I would have both of those forces operating on me and breaking it down into small chunks that was big um I mean when you start to look at something like Africa 10 ,000 miles I knew I was going to be on the road for you know best part of the year it's like any challenge in life it feels daunting if you went back to 16 year old you and said look at this challenge ahead of you you're going to build a big company, media company you're going to go into podcasting, you're going to do the TV you go like wow it's exciting but you go like fucking hell, it's a lot to take on so I think for me that scale on that it can be really exciting but because it's daunting I like to just focus on it can get a bit messy if you look at it all at once You don't know what's the first step I'm going to take.

32:13So for me, it was all about just this is a big task, but we are just going to break it down into the 20K before breakfast, 20K before lunch, 20K before dinner. I know I can do that. So it feels way more comfortable now. We should go, execute, execute, execute, execute, execute. So I want to talk about the sort of continued motivation that you have, particularly when it comes to competing. And again, Bulldog have got products which can help you and help everyone feel their best when these big moments of competition arrive. such as the Bulldog Anytime Daily UV Moisturiser SPF 50, which gives you all day hydration and sweat resistant protection.

32:48When the starting pistol goes, I want to talk to you a bit about the feeling that you get, particularly as someone who in the eyes of so many people has achieved the ultimate, like what you did in Africa, almost feels like it can never be bettered or never be beaten. But you've kind of, you've found a way to continue competing, continue pushing yourself. Yeah, well, I think that for me, challenge is not something that you do tick and then you move on to other areas of your life. It's a constant part of life and it's a necessary component for me to continue to find out who I am as I develop in different seasons of my life.

33:21so running Africa was obviously like an achievement that or a challenge that sort of caught more attention than others and people will frame that in their own mind that it was like the hardest thing that I've that I'll never be able to top it and blah blah blah but for me there's always I am so flawed there's unlimited things I can challenge myself with right so like with the Ironman for example I can't I can barely swim I did three lengths for Paul the other day I nearly passed out so like I am up against it and how long have you got to the Leeds triathlon not long enough I think it's like two months now or something if you've only got three lengths in your time yeah yeah exactly so but this is this is the beautiful part about a challenge for me is that like in order for me to go from someone that is doing three lengths and is about to pass out to like however many lengths an Ironman is I think it's it's four and a half K of swimming it's long long old way and swimming tricks people you know when you because how many how far do you run and cycle on the oh well you know I run hundreds of Ks and cycling is easy enough.

34:22Once you've got the technique, it's not so bad. And then when you say, oh, I've got a 4K swim, people go, oh, that doesn't sound like very far. Yeah, yeah. You try swimming 4.5K. It's well far. So I think, the beautiful part about that is that for me to get from someone that can only do three lengths to a 4.5K swim, I'm going to have to put myself in a difficult and challenging environment weekly in training sessions and figure out a way to overcome each time and that's going to give me a sense of purpose, give me a resolve. so there's so much to be gained from it all still and I think that you have got so much from creating this persona of the hardest geezer and the things that you've done but it also comes now with an expectation so like when you're on the start line at the Leeds Ironman Triathlon people will be looking at you going oh well this is easy for you yeah yeah yeah which is blessed and cursed because you're not it's not but yeah people will say 100 % ah I'm walking apart so do you get nervous When you're on the start line of that race, how will you be feeling?

35:22I don't think I'll be nervous. I acknowledge that there comes a little bit more added pressure when you're a bit more known and people expect certain things of you and they maybe don't understand the context of, I actually can't swim, so Ironman's definitely going to be really difficult for me. But that is kind of pressure that exists externally. For me, I'll always have the standard that I want to give myself, I want to give the best performance that I can, I want to try my hardest, like you were just saying, try my hardest with where I am and what I've got so that's that's an internal pressure that other humans can't that's going to be that's going to be higher than what other people can put on me really so I'll try my absolute best and I know that and on race day it will happen and there's not really an awful lot to be nervous about what you'll see is my best and that could be a complete failure and that's okay because we'll get up and we'll go again next time you do the best you can where you are with what you've got, right?

36:16I think before we move on to our quickfire questions, one thing I think is very interesting, and you've already spoken about the risks of the manosphere and the dangers of people constantly searching for answers. I think a lot of young people particularly are lauding content creators who are just dealing with unresolved childhood trauma in some way. You know, I see a lot of these people that get lauded as running away from something. The pain they haven't yet managed to solve is the thing that drives them on this need to kind of punish themselves all the time. do you feel like you are running towards something great or away from something bad at this moment in my life i would like to think i'm running towards something great that's definitely not always been the case for me though i think i'd be honest to say that um and also probably have to be honest and say i'm not 100 sure i think i am what would you be running away from there's so many things that i think it's hard to really fully understand yourself to that level where you fully can say sit and go i am 100 not running away from anything because the subconscious runs deep and it's like traumas run deep and they could be affecting me in ways i'm not actually quite sure of so yeah i mean i'd like to think not yeah because i think like we look at someone that a really good example is my fellow podcaster spencer matthews on untapped another show that we produce at High Performance like people lord what he does now but he used to have an alcohol addiction and there's an argument that he's still addicted to something but the addiction is fitness achievement and sport therefore we lord it rather than criticise it and I think it's just remembering that it's okay to be a human being not a human doing like you are enough as a person you don't have to do very good Christian message but you are like you don't have to do amazing things to be an amazing person.

38:05No, it's true, yeah. You are loved as you are. Yeah, I know, 100%. I think you can replace alcoholism with achievement. That is a real thing and you make achievement. But you get praised for that so it doesn't feel as negative necessarily. But, yeah. So interesting, isn't it? It is. You could just chop it up for hours and hours and hours. Unpick these things. Yeah, yeah. It feels like an infinite complex nuance to all of them. Yeah, but it also never ends, which I think is interesting. Listen, before we get to the quick fires, what do you think that young lad looking at that tin of potatoes would be thinking of the man in front of me now?

38:46Grateful for the journey that I've been on. And I think the young version of me would probably be mostly pretty proud of how I've handled the situation. I'm always more cautious to stay proud, more grateful. I'm grateful for the journey rather than proud. we're having this conversation thanks to Bulldog yes and they talk about Bulldog understands men I think this is exactly the kind of conversation that men need to be having to understand other men yeah yeah and if people have listened to this try and have this kind of a conversation with your mates and just see where it takes you don't you think yeah yeah I have hope that we're getting better at this as men I think that like be a bit vulnerable lads it's great to have friendships that for me that have evolved from like sort of pub mates drinking having fun to a bit more like what I would call like a brotherhood like where you actually have deep connections and you'll do life together and you'll talk about all the real stuff so yeah I'm big on promoting that for the boys Love this Ready for some quick fire questions?

39:44Let's do it The three non-negotiables to live a great daily routine It's got to be that SPF daily moisturiser innit? Come on Yeah get that skin nice and protected What other non-negotiables do I have? At the moment four weeks post baby it's a bit of caffeine in the morning in. Very good. Get me fired up. Very good. I've tried to quit that a while ago, but it's come back in, it's snuck back in there at the minute, which is a tough one. And then for me, I always try less successfully of recent, but I always try and get my fitness done, my running done, first part of the day. Hardest thing of my day, get it done, and then we're free.

40:19Freedom. Greatest piece of advice you've ever received? One that I would say recently that's really resonated with me more is that I think sometimes Sometimes we can be really focused on being the most interesting person in the room, but it's way more beneficial and valuable to be the most interested person in the room. Asking the questions, finding out what other people are, what's going on in their life, what they're doing, how can you help, blah, blah, blah. Be interested, not interested. What's your biggest strength? I'd probably say that there seems to be this burning ferociousness and tenacity in me that seems to be more than average.

40:58So I'd say that's probably my biggest strength. And your biggest weakness? Probably the same thing. What is the hardest thing about being the hardest geezer? Hardest thing about being the hardest geezer? Bro, life's pretty blessed right now. I'm trying to... Wow, that's actually great that I can't think of anything. Isn't it? Unbelievable. Do you know what I would say is maybe like, as is anything in life, responsibility can feel like a lot of pressure. I'm aware that it's actually a massive blessing. I wouldn't have it any other way, but it can sometimes feel, I'm sure you feel this sometimes too, but the responsibility of providing for other people, having other people rely on you can feel, that's just something that's difficult, but I do on the whole love it.

41:38Yeah. Well, it boxed you in in Africa and I think it can box you in in life as well. If you don't keep an eye on it. What does high performance mean to you? The ability to get what you want out of life. Amazing. I've loved this conversation. Me too, man. really really interesting and good luck in Leeds and the Ironman thanks for having me as well I'll be thinking of you that you can only currently swim three lengths to the pool well the good news is if I make it out of that lake then I've got a good I've got half a chance there is that what you feel as soon as the swim's over you're good I'm glad that it's first get the most difficult one done first and then we're away love that Ross thank you so much no worries and thank you as well for listening to this special episode of High Performance brought to you by our friends at Bulldog Skincare look as you just heard right it can be exciting to talk about big achievements, whether that's winning a race or competing in an Ironman.

42:29But I think what we've actually touched on in this conversation is that it's easy to overlook the everyday hard work, both physically and mentally, that goes into making great things happen. And actually, the same goes for all of us in our personal lives. We all want that buzz, right, of reaching for the big target. But the risk is we overlook the strain it can put on our lives. That's why self-care is so important. And that is what Bulldog are all about supporting with their quality products, purpose-built for men. You can find Bulldog Skincare in major retailers and online. Bulldog understands men.

43:22Thank you.