The Man Who Changed Golf Without Winning a Single Tournament | Rick Shiels

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0:49Rick, welcome to High Performance. Thank you for having me. Honestly, I am a huge fan of this podcast. So shall I tell you about the conversation that you won't know happened behind the scenes at high performance about getting you on i'd love you i'd love to know they were like we've run out of guests we need to ask rick so final record day of the year three people pulled out at the last minute no all of it not true now the reason why we were really keen to have you sit in this chair is because i think that the world needs to understand that high performers look different in 2025 2026 2027 than they did in 95 96 and 97 back then it was about being the world number one Back then it was about being part of something mainstream.

1:29There was no opportunity then to create something yourself that could be even 1 % of what the world recognized, let alone sometimes now double or 10 times the size. And I look at Deschambault winning the US Open with a peak audience of 11.4 million and people celebrating that that's a high number. And then I look at you going from 100 views to 900 million plus views and probably billions more views a year across your social channels, as well as your YouTube and other things. And I just think it's time to stop looking at those people as high performers and people like you as someone that hangs around high performers, talking about them and monitoring them.

2:09And actually that you and the people in your world are high performers. When I say that, does it make you think, no, no, no, you've got it wrong? Do you actually think that it's time we started celebrating content creators in this new creator economy in this way? I think the world is celebrating content creators. You know, you've seen it already. You know, as we've just recorded this podcast, you look at who won I'm a Celebrity and it's a content creator from Salford right near me, you know, and Angra Ginge. And, you know, I remember a couple of years ago seeing him making videos and it's like, now to see him on I'm a Celebrity and getting the recognition and people loving him.

2:46And, you know, he stops at Manchester Airport, he's getting recognized and he's getting pictures and it's like, it becomes mainstream. but you're right probably the views he gets on his own channel far outweigh the views that were on I'm a Celebrity far outweigh it but I think the world is starting to realize that content creators do have such a strong pull and do have massive audiences going back to your point with Bryson DeChambeau I mean he's kind of doing a bit of both worlds at the moment he is not only performing at the highest level on the golf course and you know winning major tournaments but he's also setting up his own YouTube channel and we spoke a few years ago how he got into it and how he actually was inspired by watching my channel.

3:23I thought, well, if Rick can make it, I'm sure I can give it a bash. And to see him almost wear both hats is really incredible as well. But, you know, I think content creators are starting to get the spotlight that they deserve. You look at what KSI has done and his world, it's unbelievable. So if someone's listening to this now and they're inspired by this, they realize they don't have to get a job. They realize life doesn't have to be nine to five, right? You don't have to have a lanyard around your neck and a boss moaning that you're two minutes late. You can do what you have done. How do you begin?

3:54How do you even start? And I'm really interested in your founder journey in this. Yeah, you're right. I remember when I first started making YouTube videos and the term YouTuber wasn't really a thing. You know, I started making YouTube videos 13 years ago. And when I started making YouTube videos, it's to promote myself as a golf professional, a teaching professional. That's where I started. And when people would say to me, what is it you do for a job? I was very much, I'm a teaching professional. I do a little bit of YouTube on the side. I'll be honest, I was almost embarrassed a little bit about, you know, the YouTube on the side.

4:27And as it started to grow and over the years and has the YouTube started to take off and YouTuber became more of a mainstream description of what you do as a job. Suddenly the kind of shackles came off and suddenly I was a little bit prouder about being a YouTuber. And now if genuinely, if someone asks me, I'm a YouTuber, that is what I do, content creator a YouTuber. Don't love the word influencer, but I don't, I don't know. I'm not sure if any, many people do, but, um, you know, releasing those shackles and going back to, you mentioned before about content creators wanting to get mainstream.

4:58One of the first things I ever did before making YouTube videos, I reached out to golf magazines because that was the only way really you could become well-known in the golf space. So I reached out to all the golf magazines and pretty much got a hard no if I got a reply from any of them. I was like, okay, well, I'll, that ship has sailed I'll leave that now I have now since doing YouTube and this I don't want this to sound like a humble brag but I think it explains the shift in mentality I've probably done about seven or eight front covers now on golf magazines and it's lovely and it's and it makes your parents proud and you know other kind of people from different generations see it as like that's the gold standard I kind of see it a bit like now it's nice if I didn't have to do another front cover and it wouldn't be the end of the world it's not you know it's it's nice to have but it's nice to have knocking around the office, et cetera.

5:47I love creating golf content and I get to call that a job. I mean, it's not a job to me. I get to travel the world playing an amazing golf course and documenting it all, releasing it out into the public. And even early days, it was very addictive. That whole process of coming up with a video idea, filming it, editing it, releasing it, seeing the very small views at the start and a few comments. I remember celebrating a hundred views on a video. Like this is, I've made it. let's pop open the, maybe not champagne, but let's, and it was like, this is amazing. I remember one real standout win for me.

6:22So again, the reason why I got into YouTube was to further my coaching career. I was at a busy driving range in Manchester. You'll know it, Trafford Golf Center. That's where I used to coach. And there was four golf coaches. I was the newest one into the teaching academy. And I kind of soon identified a lot of people who came for lessons were people inside Manchester. And I was thinking, there's going to be a point where everybody in Manchester has been taught. There's nobody else to teach. I was like, well, I need to try and spread that area a little bit more. Hence why I wanted to get into YouTube.

6:51And I started making YouTube videos and it was all about helping golfers. And at the end of the video, I'd say, Hey guys, if you want to come and see me for a golf lesson, this is where I'm based. This is my number. This is how you get in contact. And, um, it took a few months, not dead long though, a couple of months. I was getting some views and some traction and I got a phone call and it was, I won't do the accent because he was someone from Newcastle. And he was like, I've seen you on YouTube. Love what you're doing. Can I come for a lesson? And it was at that moment I was like, wow, like all of those videos, everything I've done so far has now been worthwhile.

7:25Cause you couldn't, you weren't, I wasn't making money on YouTube at that point. I'd said sense wasn't a thing. It was, it was just an advertisement tool. This guy had driven down past hundreds and hundreds of golf coaches, probably golf coaches that are better than me. But he'd come to me in my driving range at the Trafford Center, and he was just bought in straight away. And the advice that I gave him was so much more accepted. He improved really, really quickly because he trusted what I said and he understood. And it was like, that's why I did YouTube. And from that, more and more and more people came from all different areas of the UK.

8:01Some people were flying in from America if they were on a business trip for a lesson or Europe, tie it in with coming see your family and have a lesson i was like wow this is amazing a few years passed and adsense became a you know a motivator so i'm now not only my teaching diary is really busy now i'm probably the busiest golf coach in the country at the time my advertising tool which i was seeing as a as an outlay it was a scene as a i've got to pay for to have that done is now paying me what the hell and it was that again that was another moment i was like oh this is pretty cool. I never started any of this to become a YouTuber or someone in the media business.

8:40I think probably if people deep down enough, I didn't do great at school. I wasn't very academic, but I loved two subjects. I loved PE, physical education and drama. I loved being on stage. I loved doing shows. My two real passions of drama and PE, somehow I've managed to kind of turn into my career and my job really can i ask you about those other three golf coaches at the jaffer center when you go there because when i was doing some research on this i found a start that said three quarters of creative ideas for you it was putting yourself out there and advertising your golf lessons on youtube get rejected for safer more incremental ideas like going and getting on the front cover of a golf magazine or advertising in that so how did you deal with or did you face in fact rejection people being a bit disenchanted or dismissive of what you were doing yeah i remember when i first even started on on twitter this was even before youtube and it was really when twitter was just kind of coming on you had guys like stephen fry was like a big name on there and a few other obviously celebrities and i used to sit in the pro shop um i was this was a different golf club that was at before the trafford center and i used to spend my time on twitter and giving advice out giving free advice this is how you get better at golf this is how you should do things people would post videos of their swing and i would go on there and try and give them advice and help them all free like i wasn't making any money from it and a pro that worked there at the time always used to look at me and go why are you doing this like what are you doing like you're wasting time.

10:24You're giving away all your secrets, ideas for free. Why are you doing it? And at the time, I'll be honest, I didn't really know. I just enjoyed it. And I thought, well, I'm sure it's going to become bigger than what it is right now. And surely social media, Twitter is going to keep growing. And as much as I've never made a Twitter, I've never sent me a check in the post. I've made money through social media, you know, in other ways. So I definitely got pushback from a lot of people in the industry at first. Golf professionals didn't get it. They didn't understand why I was giving away free advice.

10:57To some degree, I didn't really know either. I was like, why am I giving away free advice? Is this going to be detrimental to my career? But it was only when those phone calls started to come in and people would come in for lessons. And as I said, what I really found is how receptive clients were when they did come in for lessons. Because it wasn't frosty, it wasn't cold. It wasn't, I wasn't meeting a client for the first time or they wasn't meeting me for the first time. There was this rapport already built up, which had been built up through videos. And it just, honestly, it made coaching so much easier.

11:31There was still restriction from coaches, of course, because like, well, why it's still, why are you doing it? You fast forward now, it's an expectation that coaches have social media presence. Like if they've not got social media presence, they're missing out. The PGA course that I have qualified at Professional Golf Association, they teach social media as a topic now. Like they use me as an example in their documentation to say, look what, you know, one of our PGA members have done through social media. What can we learn from that? How can you bring that into your own business? So yeah, there was definitely restriction.

12:04There was definitely pushback. Even from brands, you know, even if I was working with sponsors. It was like, but, you know, we sponsor professional athletes. We don't sponsor you. And, or even car brands, you know, we don't sponsor a driving range pro. We sponsor the best players in the world. But how did you take that criticism and not take it personally and just see it as a way to, to improve or to adapt? I think because I didn't know what the future was going to have. If I, you know, if you had a crystal ball, it's like, you're making a mistake, not sponsoring me right now. I didn't know. Like I was going in there and going, I mean, you could actually be right.

12:40Like, I don't know the future of this. There's no blueprint. Nobody's done a journey like this before, let's say in the world of golf. So you actually might be right. But deep down, I was enjoying it. Deep down, I was just enjoying the process and seeing little wins along the way and going, well, if I'm enjoying it and we're seeing wins, if people are a bit negative to it, okay, that's fine. In some degree, I was actually seeing that as, well, at least you're not coming into my space. It's like, that's fine. You stay over there. I'll keep doing what I'm doing over here. And liking golf and being good at golf and wanting to make content does not give you the golden ticket to be as successful as you.

13:17There will be hundreds, if not hundreds of thousands of people that have tried to create YouTube channels and it hasn't worked. So why are you sitting here having this conversation with us today and they're not? It's great. It is a great question. Because if you actually look back at my really, really old videos, they were shocking. So bad. Yeah, but that's also useful for you to know they're shocking because there'll be some people producing that same content today, wondering why no one's looking at it. But you know, it's shocking. And I'd be really interested to understand YouTube more. So when I, again, first, very first started making YouTube videos, I was, it was all self-taught.

13:49So I would, I would make videos on my iPad or whatever. And it was very static. Hi, because this is what you'd see on presentation. Hi, my name is Rick Shields. Today, I'm going to help you. And it was very robotic and it was very professional. Like it had to have this professional layer to it. And I actually hired a videographer and editor for a day. So I thought, well, let's try and make them really good. So I hired this videographer of the day and I had this idea that I was going to make like 50 videos in a day. It really did. Okay. And the price that I was paying him, I was like, I need to make 50 videos today because this is really expensive.

14:27And the very first video I shot, again, in this, hi, I'm Rick Shields Tone. I thought I'd nailed the delivery. It's a three minute video, quick chipping tip. I thought I'd nailed it. And he's come from a TV. He's come from a TV background and he had all the equipment, had his headphones on, this, that, and the other. He goes, ah, no, there was a bit of a buzz in the air. I think there's a tractor in a field, two fields over. Let's do it again. I was like, okay, all right, I'll do it again. So then tried to do it again. And inevitably you don't do it as good the first time. And then the third time, and then the fifth time, and then the 15th time.

15:01And I'm thinking, thought I'd nailed it the first time, if I'm honest with you. And at the end, it was like, we got to the take and that he was happy with. And I was thinking, don't think it needed all that. That was way too overproduced. So again, I'm thinking I'm getting 50 videos out of this. We got maybe four that day, full day of filming, four videos. And he was like, what a great success that was. I'm thinking, but he wasn't. The amount of money I'm paying you for this, and I'm only getting four videos out of it. So those videos are still online now, actually. So it was at that point I was like, that's not YouTube.

15:33That's not what I see on YouTube. As a fan of YouTube, way, way back, you know, beyond 13 years, YouTube's a bit raw. It's a bit real. It's not, it's not got a filter to it. It's a bit more shaky. Like that's what it's got to be. And then from that moment, I was like, I'm going to make a promise to myself that I'll aim to use the first take every time. And even if I mess up, it's okay. Like, don't worry about it. Like there's no scripts. I didn't have words to say, but if I'd stumbled my lines or hit a bad shot, kind of laughed it off. I was like, oh, that was a daft shot. Let me try that again.

16:09And I think that really helped that connection with the audience because they'd only seen polished versions on TV before. Everything's perfect on TV, isn't it? And I'd end up hiring a cameraman then. This was like 11 years ago. So I've been doing YouTube a couple of times. And even then he said, I've seen you coach and the way you deliver your lessons, but then the way you're delivering it to me because of the camera there is still a bit different it's still not the same like the rick i see coaching somebody isn't the rick i'm seeing on video he said forget the camera and just speak to me behind the cameras if i'm a client of yours from that moment everything changed even then it still wasn't as structured it was like i was just chatting to a mate hey jake this is what i want you to do with your golf swing you've got a bit of a strong grip we can fix that i can help you fix that slice this and the other and it and it suddenly it was natural.

17:01It was, it was me not putting on an act. It was me just how I'd deliver a line. Like I'm, I'd speak to you guys today. And then over that time, I suppose, two and a half hours of video, you learn what's good, what's not. And I watch all the videos back and I, and I consume a lot of YouTube, uh, sent you off topic, off podcast, maybe not as much YouTube as I do now, but I used to consume a lot of YouTube and pick up little tidbits from other creators in other genres. What is your most popular video? About seven years ago, I genuinely was at a point that I think we've made every video we can make.

17:34I think we're done. It was a great run. Well done, everyone. What a horrendous business decision that was. We've run out of actual creativity. I think we're done because all my content was around coaching, equipment reviews or playing golf like a bit of challenges and i was thinking i think i think that's it everyone and then we really came up with this kind of new strand of of what's entertaining it's not going to maybe teach you anything you're not going to learn from it but it's just going to entertain you what what is that content and we went down this crazy journey of testing a lot of um elite what are classed as illegal golf clubs so there's legal golf clubs that you can use in competition but And there's this like crazy section of the internet that sells all these illegal golf clubs.

18:22And often they're plastered all over the internet or on Golf Channel in America. It's like, this driver is going to help you hit it 450 yards and all this. And nobody had ever really tested any of these drivers. So I was like, let's go. So we just bought everything we found online. Every mad golf club, every crazy invention from a golf ball that had a micro tip inside of it. so you couldn't lose it. A golf club that was called a swingless golf club, so it has ammunition in it and you press a button, it shoots the ball perfectly straight every time, 250 yards from a golf ball that believed it only flew straight.

18:59You couldn't slice it. You couldn't hook it. We bought everything, everything, everything, everything. And then for a couple of years then, we were the only people on the internet making this content. It banged. Every video banged because the intrigue was there. The entertainment was there. Like we bought a golf ball that only flew straight. The way that the dimples were positioned on the ball meant that the aerodynamics, it almost self-corrected. And I, dead skeptical. I went into this going, this is going to be crap. This is never going to work. And it bloody worked. And I was like, oh my God, it actually works.

19:36Like I can't believe it. There was downsides. The ball didn't travel as far and this, that and the other. But it did what it said in the tin. and i remember that video getting a million views in a couple of days and we were like okay we're on to something million views in a couple of days and this is six seven years when no one was getting those nobody going back to the topic what's my most most popular after a spell of reviewing all these illegal golf clubs i was like right let's put everything together let's put in one video i'm going to go out and play with every legal golf club you can possibly find and does it genuinely make me play better at golf.

20:10And I think that's up to like eight, nine million views now. And it's like, because the intrigue was there that the brands had done all the marketing for me. The brands who had made all these pieces of equipment had spent fortunes on the marketing and making you believe these clubs work. And I'm kind of cutting through the BS and telling you whether it does or doesn't. And it really hit with the audience and did fantastic for us. I think that's so interesting. And you start creating these videos, right? And that's now what you're known for. I bet a lot of people watch those and don't even know that you were once a golf pro working up in Manchester.

20:44Is there something that you go through when you come up with an idea where you almost have a checklist of how do we know if this is going to fly on YouTube? Well, these are the things we're going to, these are the questions we're going to ask ourselves. Normally there's one question. Yeah. And it's, do we want to know the answer? For example, I filmed a video, one of my first pros I had on the channel was Tommy Fleetwood. We had a day with him to film and it was like, right, we're going to go film with him but it's like well what's the content because obviously he's better than me considerably better than me and it was like well what do we film like how how do we make this a competition and we ended up a guy who works for my team kind of came up with the idea well what's never been done before is what about if you had a a certain amount of shots head start it's like okay because it builds in the narrative it still gets 18 holes in but you have i started 10 under par so you start with a massive advantage we we're saying tommy you're way better than me i'm gonna have to start with a head start can you catch me can are you good enough to catch me or am i good enough to hold on to this lead whatever it may be and and again that's a a topic we want to know the answer to can i beat tommy fleetwood with a 10 shot start that's what we call the video and i wanted to know tommy wanted to know so if we wanted to know the audience are going to want to no of course they are so i think they're the ones that excite us most when we want to know the answer so i've got a really good friend of mine who played on tour he played in the open he's called james robinson really really good player but he didn't qualify he didn't he didn't make it so it's like well why didn't he make it what what's the reason so he's a bit of a stig character on our channel where right james who you're bloody really really good at golf can you shoot par with this terrible set of golf clubs?

22:29Like, can you shoot par with this budget set of clubs or these kids clubs or these not left-handed clubs, but any, like just keep throwing stuff at him. Or can you be me using certain clubs or, you know, we just, it's all of, I think they're the most interesting questions to us because before we start filming, genuinely, like, I don't know how this is going to go. Mr. Beast is the gold star in YouTube. And, you know, he again does a similar thing where he'll, he'll, sometimes he opens, apparently opens a dictionary and he'll be scanning through and he'll try and find a word. And, and it, this word might be something like, um, I can't think of an example now, extraordinary.

23:07And he'll just play with that word, right? Extraordinary. How could I turn that into a video title? I visit the most extraordinary place on earth. Okay. Well, that's all right. I visit seven extraordinary places in 24 hours. Okay. we're getting better i visited the most extraordinary blah blah it's like it just keeps going and then suddenly he goes hey that's a good idea or he just scratched it okay next word and it's just con it's just does it start with a title every time i think so yes title and thumbnail are really really important why because it's it's your front cover of your book i know you guys have got a book out like it's your front cover it's what attracts people to click on that video I would some degree love not to have a title and a thumbnail you know I'd love to just this is episode three but it doesn't work in YouTube like TV it just works doesn't it you don't really need a thumbnail or a title it's just it just works that's the episode number you're up to yeah but even on Netflix thumbnails are important on Netflix because you've got so much choice but once you're into that series it doesn't matter what episode three is called does it like it's just episode three.

24:15Where in YouTube, every single episode has to have a title and thumbnail that's fantastic. We haven't even spoken about the business side of things. Like you don't talk about it as your channel. You talk about it as your business, right? I just think if you had made it as a pro golfer and had an okay golfing career, like you would have restricted yourself so much. I just, I learned on the job though. This wasn't, this was never the plan, as I mentioned. How big is your business? So we've got 12 members of staff currently. We've got really really sizable office now in Salford, which I'm really proud of.

24:45And you know, it's such a nice place to work. We're recruiting a couple, we've got two more job adverts out at the moment, which we're just recruiting for now. So we'll be up to 14. I don't think many people watching the channel know that, but I also never wanted, never want them to know that. So you'll never really see my staff in, in, or my crew in the videos. You'll never see me touring around my office or my studio because going back to idea, I still want it to feel real. And I want it to feel like it's a YouTube channel that people tuned in from 13 years ago where it's, oh, it's just Rick.

25:17It's my mate. He's just going to help us or he's going to do this. And I think as soon as you start showcasing, oh, look at me with all this crew and all that, it loses that bit of magic I always feel. So I've always tried to keep it what feels like it's the audience and me. That's it. That's all there is. there's nothing else going on it's not you know and the productions increase all the time of course it has because that's what's needed to happen but we actually almost we pull back the production a little bit like we could make better videos we the production could be way better but i don't want to lose that connection with the with the fan or the audience because as soon as they think oh this is overproduced this is like a netflix show now it's not youtube anymore and it's still got to be a bit shaky camera it's still got to be a bit spitting sawdust like it's still got to have that youtube feel to it mr beast did that for years you know he could have he could have filmed everything in 4k but he didn't want to because he felt like it was almost too polished he ended up filming everything in 1080 because it just he wants it to still look like youtube the he did a series on prime um amazon prime and that looks so different to his normal youtube videos because it was filmed on really fancy amazon prime cameras and even i watched it going ah it's gone this isn't youtube anymore i enjoyed it but this isn't youtube anymore and it's that really weird fine balance but how do you keep yourself honest then so that because sometimes i can imagine you can almost get lost in that world so who gives you feedback to go rick this isn't working or rick you need to consider this probably the audience is it yeah probably the audience like you can't hide in your job no i protect myself from the audience a bit more now because explain i don't think any of us are designed to receive hundreds thousands or hundreds of thousands in my sense over over my youtube career to feedback and criticism and judgment i don't think any of us are designed for that and it's hard isn't like it's difficult and i could read 10 lovely comments i'll read one negative one.

27:23And that's the only one, that's the only one I ever remember. And whether we programmed like that, I'm not sure you might know a bit more than I do about that, but it's like, I think over the time I've really tried to put things in place because I would say that's been my, not regret because I don't really, I don't have many regrets in this space, but it's the thing that I never expected. I came into YouTube golf to try and help people. I saw a business opportunity i didn't put myself in a position to be criticized for everything that i do really and that can be everything it can be god you're looking a bit fat today rick you've had too many sausage rolls so now i've actually lost a bit of weight recently oh buddy rick you're looking too skinny it's like jesus where did we win or like your golf game's terrible i'm like well yeah okay and you know there's just and over time it just take and golf game terrible i can take on the chin it's not the end of the world but i think when it gets really personal or it's like god i've worked really hard for this video and you know the top comment might be this is crap or this is shit or that's like oh thanks what message have you had that you you that really hurt and you still remember it wasn't really it wasn't aimed at me so one video i released it was with a good friend of mine peter finch who i've done loads of videos with in the past and the video had just come out i hadn't been out long this was a number of years ago seven or eight years ago and the top comment or one of the comments was Pete is the type of guy who would benefit from getting cancer how can someone even type that how can someone say that how can someone think that luckily I was on YouTube at the time and I literally deleted the comment as quick as I possibly could I didn't want anyone to see it I didn't want Pete to see it like what and I blocked that guy from the channel i hope he's never watched the channel ever again but i was like how is somebody even having that as a thought in the mind and you know that always kind of really stands out to me as one of the ones i was thinking because you can get negative comments of course you can but like to go that to go to that place to wish somebody would get a life threatening illness.

29:38It's like, what? So what have you done to protect yourself from this sort of stuff? So my wife's been the biggest helper in a lot of this because there's many times where I would get home and I'd be in a lovely mood. I've had a great day filming. Video's just been released. I'm in a great mood. Getting the kids ready. I used to have a habit pulling out my phone. Oh, how's the video doing? Let's have a quick look. Okay. Okay, the video's maybe not performing as well as we'd like. Okay, well, that's annoying. let's read the comments okay read some nice ones so there's a negative one okay great read a bit more there's another negative one okay great some nice ones negative okay nice and again it might only be five percent of the comments are negative and i'd put my phone in my pocket i suddenly i'm in a crap mood i'm suddenly i'm suddenly in a crap mood i've gone from lovely happy making tea and my wife's gone what's happened north video's not doing great all right okay and yeah someone's just call me this or someone said that or she's like, all right, okay.

30:36Well, do you have to look at it? And at the time I was like, yeah, yeah, of course I do. That's my job. Of course I've got to look at it. Like there's no, I have to look at this. And she was like, okay. So she would, she would just expect that's what I've got to do. But I was almost like it was, I was a ticking time bomb. At some point, my good mood was going to turn into a foul mood and that would affect things. I'd get gnarly. I'd get more annoyed with the kids for doing silly things. You know, suddenly I'm bringing negativity into my house. Why have I done that? If I knew there was an angry mob outside my door, I wouldn't open the door.

31:10So why have I got a potential, I'm not saying they're all angry mobs, but why have I got a potential angry mob in my pocket and I'm bringing that into my house? Why am I doing that to myself? And there'd be real times where I'd feel down and like really annoyed or really upset. And again, probably the back end of last year, my wife went do you actually need to do this and my still my answer was yes of course i do it's my job but do you need to what what's different does it make you seeing how well the video does what difference does it make are you going to change anything you can delete the video are you going to check like what are you going to do it's like well nothing what are you going to do about these comments or nothing because i never really replied to him by the way you're now in a world where you have an entire team that can look at the comments you can look at the video can judge the performance can look at the spikes and the drops that's all be you pay people to do that but i did it from the start yeah like it's so hard to let go that was my baby from the start like i've i've read every single comment and watched every single like and every single view that's ever come into the channel to that point so last christmas i made a real conscious effort we went away for christmas new year and she went don't go on it and it was bloody hard it was two weeks where i was like, this is really hard not to look at performance, not to look at comments, not to do this, that, and the other.

32:26But I got through it. And at the end of it, she was like, how did you find that? I was like, it was really hard. She said, it was, but your attitude, your behavior was so consistent through the two weeks. You never went really down. You were just consistent. You were Rick. You were much better with the kids. I was like, hey, you know what? I was. And did the world end? No. Did you lose views? No. Did you lose subscribers? No. Okay, great. If we're going to talk about losing subscribers, can we talk about another difficult decision where you would have probably known in advance that criticism would come your way?

33:02Yeah, yeah. And you know what I'm going to say. Yeah. The deal to partner with Liv. Would you take us through getting the news that it's something they'd want to do to making the decision that, okay, I'm going to do this and how in the moment like this, you also had to, I guess, protect yourself? Yeah. So I've known about Liv for a long, long time, even before it was brought out. There was a concept that this new league was going to come out. And I actually got approached very, very early on to live stream the first ever event. so the conversation came up would you live stream the first ever event at centurion and at the time i was like oh my god this is quite daunting because at the time it was very destructive and the audience the world of golf wasn't reacting that well to it and i was like wow this in one hand this is an unbelievable opportunity in what like this is to live stream a golf event on my channel wow and the world's gonna be watching wow this is really cool on the other hand it's like what's that going to do as a as a brand like is that going to damage my brand for the rest of my life so i basically came back to him and said i will live stream it but i want exclusivity for two years i'll live stream every event for two years because that gives me a bit of a safety net we could never agree on that this that and the other so i said i'm not gonna i'm not gonna live i'm not gonna do it and from that point i kind of very much sat back.

34:33I wanted to see what the reaction was going to be like from the audience. I wanted to give Liv a chance. I wanted to see how it was going to develop. You know, we talk about it on the podcast loads. From its off, there was lots of positives. There was negatives. There was things that Liv as a league were doing really well. There was other things that were new and different and they weren't really getting right. The team's connection with the teams and the fans wasn't great. It was a bit of a mixed match. It was all kind of like a bit of a rush. It all kind of happened in that first couple of years, it worked, but it wasn't the best product in the world.

35:06So as it moved into its third year, it's coming into its fifth year now, as it moved into its third year, there was a few more conversations. Would you like to be involved? You know, is there room? And I was like, okay, people are warming to the idea of live a bit more now. Like, you know, I've got to, I've got to understand how the audience is going to react to this. I'm warming to live. I'm getting to understand it. I've been critical, but I'm, I'm warming to the idea of how it's going. So then a conversation took place was, well, if we did work together, what would it look like? So I just basically wrote this plan out one afternoon.

35:38And then if I, if I had access to all these players and I had access to these amazing golf courses around the world, what would I do? And I just wrote this incredible plan out. I was like, that's what I'd do. And they went, we like the sound of that. I was like, okay, that's interesting. I said, is it all possible? Yes. Most of it is possible. We might have to tweak a few things, but most of as possible. I was like, okay, well, can we agree what a deal might look like? And you do these negotiations yourself? I'm very, very heavily involved. Yeah. Very heavily involved because again, I think, I know other onscreen talent wouldn't be, and they've got management and I've got management and representatives, but it's like, I'm very passionate about this.

36:21And I, you know, if I'm going to do something, agree to something, it's got to come from me because I'm doing it at the end of the day it's not someone else that's doing it and some of the legal stuff obviously would get looked after but most of the conversations with Liv came came from me directly I then end up going playing golf with Greg Norman at um at Turnberry on the Sunday of the Open two years ago where he won the Open in 1986 well that was a really cool experience and again we had lots of chats there how could this work move into into 2025 and I was like this was that for content or just for a No, at the time, it was like, I always thought to myself, if I'm going to put a toe in to live, I can't, I've got to be all in or nothing.

37:04Cause you can't put a toe into it. Cause as soon as you, as soon as you dip your toe in, the audience's reaction is going to be one way or the other anyway. Like I can't, it has to be, I have to be all in or I almost. And you would have had all the negativity with none of the upside. Yeah, correct. So it's like, I could put my toe in, but me filming with Greg Norman at Turnberry would have come with a lot of negativity. For me, no massive amount of upside at that time. So as we agreed, the original plan was to have it ready for the middle of 2024. It didn't quite work out. So I was like, right, let's reset.

37:35Let's launch this at the start of 2025. And I was really excited. I am excited. I love the opportunity. It's like, if this plan that I've presented comes off, then the content's going to be so good that the viewers are going to love it. Like the viewers are going to love it. I know I'm going to get some backlash. I know I am. Of course I am. I know I'm going to lose subscribers. I know that's, you know, that's a given to this. For me, there was obviously upsized. There was financial security. There was security for the team. There was security for content for the next three years. It was a security net as well as something really, really exciting.

38:14So as we released the announcement 2025 January, I kind of shut everything off, shut my laptop, shut my phone. I worked with a psychologist, funny enough, Tom Young, who I mentioned before, I'd been working with him for a while already. And he gave me some advice the day before the video was released, because I'd been speaking to him about it. He said, you're probably going to get some negativity. I'm like, I know, I know it's going to come. He said, well, write down, spend an afternoon writing down every negative comment you can think of. I was like, what? He said, write down, every single thing you think is going to be said tomorrow.

38:50So I was like, wow, okay. He said, because the next day, if anybody writes something worse than what you've written, almost give them credit. Almost use it as a bit of a game. So one afternoon I just spent that and I wrote down the most disgusting things I could ever think to say to myself, which was weird. And, you know, for everything from money grabber to this, to that, you know, obviously Live Golf is backed by Saudi, the PIA. so that was going to come with a level of um feedback etc so i was like okay i'm just going to write down everything and then the next day when the video got released and you know i was brave enough to open my laptop and see the reactions and i read through comments and to be honest in a weird way it was a lot more positive than i was expecting okay because i'd written all this negativity i thought it's gonna be 100 negative almost to a degree that's what i'd almost built in my head and the next day when i woke up and they're like it was like 60 positive 40 negative i was like well that's already a win that's great and i'm reading through the negative comments i was like well actually these aren't that bad like it's everything i expected and if i did see one that was a bit more uh creative i was like that's actually good that one i hadn't thought about that one i'm gonna write that i'm gonna write that one down and then you know there was a little bit of time where i was like okay this is getting obviously i'm losing subscribers I think we lost 30 ,000 subscribers, which in the grand scheme of things, we were nearly up to 3 million.

40:18So 30 ,000 was a dint, but it didn't cripple the channel. And it didn't take that long until that kind of leveled out and started to go back up. And then once we started releasing content, again, the feedback from the audience was fantastic. I was like, great. Okay, sigh of relief.

40:41i think what tom's advised is something called psychological inoculation into where you've almost like immunized yourself against what about what's to come yeah there's evidence that it improves your resilience by between 20 and 25 percent is that right which sounds like you've had have you used it since in other aspects of your life no i've not actually and maybe you know when he said it i thought is that not a really weird negative way of thinking about it but i think it was just managing expectations i've not had to use it yet um but yeah it's been it's been a really interesting year for me and and you know i've got to travel the world i've got to see amazing places i've been to places i've never seen before like hong kong singapore mexico city uh adelaide i've never been to adelaide before it's like so i've built all these wonderful relationships with the players.

41:32Like as we move into 2026, I've got even better plans of what we can film. The channel's as strong as it's ever been. We're now over 3 million subscribers. We're getting really close to a billion views. And it's like, okay, like the dust has settled live in its own right is becoming more accepted. It's not there yet. And how did you morally square this off with the fact that it was PIF and Saudi? I think when you look at how much is invested across the world, like they love golf and they want to grow golf. And I got to meet his excellency. I've played golf with him since. And he loves golf. Like they want to see golf as a backbone in Saudi Arabia.

42:11And they want kids to get into golf and women to get into golf. And they want golf professionals to come through their rankings. It's like, well, that can only be a good thing. We've seen that in so many other countries. We've seen that across the world, how golf has brought people together. And as a massive ambassador of golf, it's like, well, why would we not want PIF money to come into the world of golf. And, you know, you see it now with what they've done with the Saudi Football League and, you know, that's going to continue to grow, I'm sure. And, you know, they're invested in Uber and Disney and all these other things.

42:42It's like most things that everyone touches every day is got PIF involved in it. And, you know, meeting His Excellency and spending time with him and just realizing the vision of what they want for Saudi Arabia and, you know 2030 is the big goal it's like you know it's going to be a hot spot for people to go to and travel destination and without getting kind of political on it it's like i feel like they're trying to do good they're trying to do better and they're trying to grow as a nation and and if golf is their vehicle for that then i think that's a fantastic place to be and you're meeting some incredible people like you said there his excellency out in saudi arabia know greg norman you've mentioned the great white shark you've played golf with him what have you seen in common with all these people whose worlds you're going in and exploring one thing i've seen in common quite a lot is and i can't say this for every high performer or great person i've spent time with but um how alcohol isn't involved go on say more i feel like really really kind of tuned individuals.

43:50Certainly more recently, I've quit alcohol, don't drink, don't overindulge in drink. It's something that I've become more part of. So I stopped drinking 500 and odd days ago. T-Total. T-Total. And I see benefits for that as me as well. I've really seen a new side of me that I'm really happy with. I never had a drink problem as such. I wouldn't ever brand myself as an alcoholic, but I felt like drink was getting in the way of things. And, you know, there was a level of me not being able to control how much I drank when I drank and it affected me, affected my business, my mood, all these other things.

44:28And I think subconsciously, because I knew I was moving into the live deal this year, I was like, I don't want drink to jeopardize that in any way. Like the last thing I need is a player seeing me stumbling out of a bar, pissed up one night, or, you know, I don't, I can't be not turned up for filming because I've been out for some drinks the night before or stinking of alcohol. So it was like, okay, well, let's see if we can knock on its head. Originally, I was only meant to do three months. And once I got to three months, I was like, quite like that. Let's see if I can get to six months. I got to six months, then a year.

44:59And right now, drink is so far off my radar, it's mind-blowing. And again, I think it's something that I've seen with certain individuals. You know, they'll drink maybe, but it's very controlled and it's not overindulged and or they don't drink at all and aside from the alcohol thing i think one thing that you are privileged to have seen and i feel similar for us actually is that you see people in a different environment to when they're competing at the top yeah so you're still playing golf with them but they're so much more relaxed so we'll have elite people come in here and they're still talking about their world of f1 or golf or football or whatever but they're they're so much more relaxed again and i wonder when you when you see people in that environment psychologically what you think those people who are just the best of the best have got or what what do you notice that just makes a difference for those who are just that step up from great to greatest i think they are unbelievably competitive right even in the most relaxed setting they are outrageously competitive the we were talking players that that is the biggest stand out for me, like how much they want to win at everything.

46:13And that drives them so much. You know, again, the criticism from, for players that have moved to live, oh, they don't care anymore. They don't, bloody hell, that's not the truth. Like if I go to a driving range and the week of a live event, I can't believe how hard they're practicing. I can't believe it. Like it baffles me. Like some of these guys who have signed for hundreds and hundreds of million are out there, rain, shine, humidity, whatever, beating balls, practicing, working hard, wanting to get better, wanting to win, wanting to win majors. It's like, wow. And, and again, any, any interaction I've had with these guys, whether it's, I feel like if you'd have a game of tiddlywinks with them, they'd want to destroy you.

46:55Like they'd want to bury you. And, and that is something I've never had personally. I think that's why I never made it as a player because I just, I am somewhat competitive but I'm not hyper competitive. See I think that you might not I think that you thought that golf was your calling or your purpose but you were wrong and the reason why you weren't as competitive in golf as some other people was because it wasn't your purpose. Now I bet that in your world of creating your content and your business and your brand I bet you now are. I'm very competitive in that world yeah. Because you've actually now found your purpose.

47:32You thought your purpose was golf. Your purpose was talking about golf. So take us into your competitiveness. What is your mindset like when you see other channels and other ideas and other guests and other growth? What is that like? It hurts. I think because I had such free reign for so long in the YouTube world, when I first started, there was probably two or three creators. And then for a long time, you know it was very uk centric the usa almost hadn't gotten onto it and i always knew there was going to be a time where they'd the light would you know the light bulb would switch and the the us would would be coming so i was trying to make hay while the sun shone and i did such a great job of that like we really put our foot down it's like right well there's no usa competitors let's just go for it and then what was interesting the usa competitors didn't come like they did in the UK.

48:26So a lot of the UK guys was very similar to me. Golf professionals who wanted to build a reputation and then kind of stumbled into this world of giving advice online. That's how the UK started. And I always thought that's how the USA were going to start. Wasn't. Interestingly for me, it was fans of my channel, young lads, young girls who weren't professional golfers, who had almost played golf their life, but they almost wanted already to become YouTube golfers. And these young, like Grant Horvath or, you know, the good, good lads. So this was the aim. The aim wasn't to be a pro. And if you don't get that settled for something else, being a YouTube golfer was the ambition for them.

49:08A lot for most of them. Yeah, for most of them. Yeah, it's mind blowing. And they're not professionals as in they're not coaches. They came onto the YouTube scene to make fun golf videos. us and as soon as that started to take place i was like wow this is really cool actually i really like this because it was different to what i was doing i did loads of collaborations with the guys over there because you know they wanted to get a bit of my audience i knew that you know like the good good lads who are like the one direction of youtube golf uh pretty much been brought together almost by a simon cowell type character has almost brought these lads together these young lads who are all fairly talented at golf, but it's personality driven.

49:47It's like, well, they're going to be the next up and coming thing. Let's collaborate. So I invited them over to the UK. We did a week's worth of content together, which was fantastic. Grant, who is doing brilliant on YouTube now, he was part of that group originally, a bit like a Robbie Williams from Take That. He kind of went solo and has done really well since that as well. So you leant into the threat? A hundred percent. That's interesting. A hundred percent. Because it was a threat, right? Yeah, it was new it was different but but also to some degree it was a threat but i knew that they had a younger audience that then than i had not knowing our analytics but just looking at their age group they're going to be trapped in 20 year olds rather than 30 40 year olds so it's like well let's let's collaborate i'm still young enough and fresh enough to be able to feel like i'm not the granddad in this in this mix you know let's do as much as we can together and again to some degree I knew that they were building and growing and doing really well.

50:41It's like, well, let's piggyback off each other's success a little bit. I love this. Yeah, no, it was good. Collaborations are key. And then even collaborations with players like Bryson DeChambeau, like when he first started, I spent a week with him in West Palm Beach, got to meet Trump that week as well, which was wild. Yeah. Cause we filmed a lot of his golf courses. What was that like? Interesting character. um you know what did you learn from him because i do believe you can learn from anyone and everyone regardless of who they are he what i've honestly learned from him was how receptive he was to my world in a very small window of meeting him it wasn't one side of the conversation he very much wanted to know what what i did what i was doing he wanted to have an input and he wanted to, you know, have his say on YouTube, et cetera.

51:31But he was very much like, so what videos are you doing? And he said, I'm sure I've watched a video. I was like, that's pretty cool. You know, you are in a hard space, right? Because every single day that you release a video, you start again from zero. Every video can be a bomb, right? And that's the difference between the world that we're now in and the world of being in mainstream media where you're so protected by a channel and producers and schedules. and you know your content the same as the content we produce is not served to anyone it's sought by people and people can stop seeking your content at any given day that's why this comes at quite a cost right it's like an exhausting way to live your life to think what's next what's next so that's the final question really like if i say to you what is next what are your ambitions what is the dream now what what would you love the future to look like for you a yacht in aruba is that is not allowed to be allowed you probably have that already no i think you know i really want to grow something that's way beyond me so diversification is a big thing you know i know that i can't be making videos forever and nor maybe do i do i want to but what we've built as a brand and as a business and the knowledge that we've acquired that's something i'm really excited about branched out to whether that's setting up other youtube channels in different genres whether that's creating our own talent whatever it may be but just diversifying it and being able to take a back seat but still manage a media business that's that's really growing in the space i think that's that's kind of the next step potentially for me um but yeah you know there's so much going on anyway it's sometimes hard to see the future but that's that's my biggest job this year has been what is that next what's the five-year ten-year vision look like media empire incoming hopefully hopefully that's the plan I hope so I love it when good guys win and you are one so thank you so much for listening to our show and thank you so much for being on our show I am a huge honestly this is I'm not BSing you this is my favourite podcast because the way you ask your questions the way you deliver everything is so so good and the guests you have on are fantastic who's your who's your dream guest before I finish I did want to ask you this I would love Lewis Hamilton yeah yeah okay yeah That would be class.

53:45Wouldn't it? Wouldn't it be? Anyway, I hope you get those guys. Thank you, Rala. Thank you, Rick. Thank you so much to Rick for that fascinating insight into a life that has led him from 100 views to almost a billion. I'm going to be honest, I'm pretty jealous of his impact on YouTube because I think Rick has built something extraordinary. But I think what struck me most there was his ability to stay grounded through all of it. Collaborating with competitors, not fighting them. Listening to his wife when she challenged him about doom scrolling through comments. writing down every horrible thing that might be said about him before he announced the deal with Liv Golf, that kind of psychological inoculation from Tom Young.

54:23Honestly, a really interesting episode. And Rick, thank you so much for joining us. And you know that moment where he said, I just want it to feel real. I think that idea of turning down overproduction, keeping the connection with his audience, even as he scales up his staff numbers, I think that's the secret, you know. It's growth without losing authenticity, something that we've really tried to do right as well here on High Performance. Because I think the creator economy is here. It's real. It's in our lives. It's central to what I'm doing, what you're doing. And people like Rick are proving you don't need a TV channel or a magazine cover to build an empire.

54:57You actually need imagination, consistency, and of course, the all-important courage to hit that publish button. And if you enjoyed what we published today, if you found it helpful, please hit subscribe. We do this because we love it, but it helps us to grow, attract more guests, find a bigger audience. If you can hit the subscribe button or leave a comment, it makes such a difference to us. So please feel free to share this maybe with someone in your life who's trying to build something of their own and they can benefit from Rick's wisdom. I'm so pleased you joined us for this episode and we'll see you next time.

55:44instance of��ating Mad and infrastructure, movements and Thank you.