The Permission You're Waiting For Doesn't Exist

0:03Hey everyone, welcome along to another episode of High Performance with myself Jake Humphrey. And me Damian Hughes. How are you? I'm good, mate. You? I'm really well and I'm excited to talk to you about this concept of the permission you're waiting for doesn't exist because I know for a fact there'll be people listening to this right now who kind of know where they're at in life but they have this vision of where they want to be and when they wonder why am I not the vision I wanted for myself, they often will think, well, because the moment hasn't arrived when I can go and become that thing. And the message that we're going to try and share during this episode, using clips from former guests that we've had on the show, is that often people who get to the place that we all want to get to, they don't wait for permission to begin that journey.

0:47They kind of, what's that phrase? They seek forgiveness rather than ask for permission. They just go for it, even though they don't have all of the data in front of them, that it's going to be successful. And actually, I've come to the realisation over the last seven years of doing this show that life is at its most exciting when you're doing things where you have no idea of the outcome where there is genuine jeopardy on the line but the truth is that it's also a very difficult place for some people to get to like it feels seriously unsafe

1:17Jake Humphrey: Yeah definitely I love that line about the seek forgiveness rather than permission because it has been an echo through so many of our guests Jake and see like do you remember that line that we spoke about before from Joseph Campbell, the anthropologist that said, the treasure you seek is in the cave you most fear to go.

1:35Tom Kerridge: Yeah.

1:35Jake Humphrey: And I think what we've seen so often is people not waiting for somebody to tell them to do it, not waiting for someone to allow them to do it, not waiting for the right time to do it, just going into the cave that you fear to tread, to go after the thing that you really want. And I think understanding that that's part of our human condition, we all feel this comfort, ambiguity and uncertainty. But high performance is on the other side of that. So how do we get through it is what I'd love to explore. And here's a question then. How do we want people to feel at the end of this episode? I'll give you a moment to think about it because I just sprung that on you.

2:12I want people to feel like they can take the leap, right? They can go into that cave that you just mentioned where they don't know what's inside or whether they're ever going to emerge in the right direction. and they will either emerge in the place they want or they won't, but they will have more information for how to get to the place they want to get to. So it's kind of like, I'm hoping by the end of this episode, people feel that the quest for where they want to get to is a no-lose situation.

2:38Jake Humphrey: Oh, I like that.

2:39Tom Kerridge: Yeah, I'd go with that. Well, that's a cop-out. You have to come up with your own one. Yeah, yeah.

2:43Jake Humphrey: So I'd say I want to normalise fear so people don't... Yeah, that's a great shout. Normalise fear. Yeah, so get people to recognize that it's not a flaw in their thinking. It's a very natural response. They're responding exactly as you should do. I remember years ago, right, when I started my business, I left a corporate job and it dawned on me then that we'd been so badly advised in our society that you hear people go, oh, just take the leap, take the bull by the horns, just have the courage to do it. And I remember at the time thinking, I feel terrified. I feel really frightened of walking away from a comfortable situation to the ambiguity of the unknown.

3:26Jake Humphrey: And I thought it was a flaw in my character that I felt like that rather than recognising. That's exactly what I should have been fearing because I was taking a leap. I was almost backing myself and I didn't know I had the evidence at that stage. So if people can come away from this and go, no, no, that's normal. It's not anything to do with a flaw in my character. it's a part of my chemistry that is functioning exactly as it should be. I see this episode as being a success. Well, can we also make a note, and this is really for the production team in the room rather than you listening at home, that that is a future episode.

4:02What could we call that? How to normalise fear? Yeah. Because I think that we've spoken a lot on high performance about we've normalised failure, we've normalised struggle, we've normalised imposter syndrome, we've normalised marginal gains, we've normalized habits we've normalized optimization i don't think you and i have spoken enough on this show about normalizing fear and the value that fear can bring to our lives

4:25Jake Humphrey: i'd love that i mean again that like when you talk about fear my mind always goes to that lovely conversation we had with dr pippa grange who spoke about the see face replace of fear that until we get comfortable with actually looking it in the eye facing what it's like what is it what's information it's giving us and then learning how do we replace it with something more helpful i don't think we can move forward so i think that's a definite shout that we'll do that one okay um listen before we go any further please like subscribe share these episodes with people because if you can just subscribe to the show it means that we can continue to grow high performance we can have more conversations like this we can attract more incredible guests it makes a massive difference to us it's really quick for you to do it we would love you to do that can i just add to that jake as well that i think being part of something just making a small commitment to subscribe is is is is making a part to be part of a part of a tribe part of a community part of a group and i know we've spoken about this we want this to be like a living vibrant community where people can contact us we can contact them and we can lift each other up so yeah i really want to echo that idea of it doesn't take you long to subscribe but we want you to be part of our world are you saying you're going to start sliding into

5:39Tom Kerridge: people's DMs. I can already see I can already see

5:45Jake Humphrey: my wife shouting at me. Hello,

5:49Tom Kerridge: Professor Hughes here. That was awful. It sounded like the West Country. Sean Wayne is listening to that at the moment. Why is he taking the piss out of your accent? Well, look, this is going to be fun. We're going to hear from a Formula One driver, a philosopher, a heavyweight fighter, an organizational psychologist, the chief exec of a FTSE 100 company, but make sure you stick around till the end of this conversation because we're going to hear from one final guest that kind of complicates things in a way that I actually think is valuable when it comes to this conversation so should we begin I think we should and why don't we start

6:24Jake Humphrey: with the idea that getting rid of the concept that the world is waiting for you the world's not looking for you that you have to go looking for the world and the opportunities that you're

6:33Tom Kerridge: seeking. And who best describes this mindset, do you think? George Russell. We'll be right back after a quick word from our partners.

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8:19Tom Kerridge: The Formula One driver for Mercedes. Let's listen to him.

8:23Alain de Botton: yeah I think I thought at the age of 16 the world would come to me and as I said it was only during that year that I realized they're not looking for me you've got to go and look for them you've got to knock on their door you know Toto's not going to look at British Formula 4 and say you know there's a kid George Russell here who's won the championship by a couple of points we need to sign him it was I remember I was in Abu Dhabi at the time doing a doing a test in Formula 3 I managed to get hold of his email. I thought, I've got nothing to lose. You know, worst case, he doesn't reply. In which case, I've lost nothing.

8:58Alain de Botton: Best case, he replies. And I literally just sent him an email. I didn't want to go in too hard. I just said, you know, I'm Joel Russell. I race this. It would be great to meet you and talk about the future potentially. And I think it was a good time to do it as well. I think time is key. They just won the championship. See, that's interesting because really what he's saying is, the point that we made right at the very beginning where he's like, well, what's the worst that can happen? Like the worst that can happen is I'm in exactly the same place. And that's a really good message. I think for everyone listening to this right now, like there will be people wondering why the world has not noticed them yet.

9:35The world doesn't work like that is such an important message for people, but it doesn't mean you don't have value. It doesn't mean you can't have impact. It doesn't mean that your life can't be one that is, if you wish, is written about in books for millennia, right? But you have to be the one that takes the leap. And I actually really think that there's more value in this than just ending up with the life that you want. I really believe that action reduces anxiety. So if people are kind of anxious about the fact their life isn't where they want it to be, I think it snowballs. And the more you think about why it isn't where you want it to be, then the bigger it feels.

10:09And the more time you spend thinking about that, the less time you're spending taking it to a place you want it to be. And the whole thing gets worse and worse and worse. But actually taking the action to try and drive your life in the direction you want it to go before you've got the evidence, before you've got the understanding that it's going to work, I think is really valuable. And that's exactly what George was doing there. And actually, I remember speaking to Toto Wolff when I went and met him at the Mercedes factory and we interviewed him for the podcast. And he's like, look, I remember George coming in, wore a suit, carried a notebook, explained to me what he wanted.

10:41And Toto then said to George, I want you to do X. And George left and did Y. He went and joined another team. He did something almost the opposite of what Toto had advised. And what I really like about that was that George shared with us the first time that he realized the world wasn't looking at him and he went looking. But he then, Toto shared the second time because George wasn't then sitting and waiting for Mercedes to come to him and give him what he wanted in the world he's like well i'm not sitting around the world isn't looking for me i'm looking for the world so off he went to do the next thing lewis hamilton the same as a young driver when he went up to run dennis at mclaren there's a recurring theme here not just in formula one but across the spectrum of high performers yep that you have to go looking and rest assured it's better to go looking and not find what you're looking for than to never look in the first place and live the rest

11:30Jake Humphrey: of your life wandering yeah i'd add a couple of things to that i mean because i absolutely agree because I'm sure you're the same as me. You get lots of requests from people that say, can I shadow you or can I come and do some work with you? Post me your pants. All of that. Well, no, I never get that one. No, no. But when it's people asking, if they can come and do some work or shadow or things like that, I'll always respond, right? Well, often it might be like some of the work is discreet, so it's not possible. But what I'm always paying attention to is who comes back to still say thank you because I'll still respond and give some advice or I'll point them in a direction.

12:09Jake Humphrey: I'll try and introduce them to somebody or I'll ask them another question. And you can count the amount of people that come back once they've received a no. It diminishes to less than 20 % of those people come back even to say thank you. And it reminds me of, I saw President Barack Obama once. He was being interviewed and he was asked to give advice to young people and he went, be useful. Be useful. when you go into any situation and you don't have a lot to offer at that stage. So find out what you can do that's useful for the person that you want to be in their company of and see how you can add to it.

12:45Jake Humphrey: So I think if you're going to ask for a favour, I mean, there's some interesting research from Frank Flynn and Vanessa Bones that demonstrates this. They sent students out and said, go and ask people on the street, strangers, for favours. And what the summary of their findings was that people greatly underestimated how likely people are to help them. People thought, oh, it'll take me ages to get help. The reality is most people were happy to lend a hand to people. But if you want to increase your odds on that, be useful and say thank you. So we think about how it's so hard for people to say yes, but we don't think about the fact that actually saying no to people is really uncomfortable as well.

13:25So we're actually more likely to say yes than people think.

13:28Jake Humphrey: Yeah, absolutely. but i think it's that idea that what we didn't um play on in george russell's clip there was that he did go back and say thank you for toto for his advice he didn't take it but he explained the logic behind him and said thank you that meant the door was open on that second occasion he came so cool can i play a really quick clip that i've just thought about go on you know when we spoke about at the beginning of the episode this idea of seeking forgiveness rather than permission yeah robin sharma who is obviously one of my heroes he spoke about this on one of the episodes if we can find the clip should we play it yeah definitely sometimes it's better to ask for forgiveness than seek permission but i think we just live in a box we always follow these rules we're just like so much about routine and sometimes be a bit of a pirate and you know if you if you're looking for love and you're in a grocery store in the avocado section or be a pirate and walk over to that person and say by the way i I think you're super attractive.

14:27Do you like avocados too?

14:31Tom Kerridge: Oh, Jake, it's a dare for you, right? How to get laid at the supermarket. Thank you, Robin.

14:39Jake Humphrey: I want to see you on some charge saying I was only being a pirate. Exactly. What I love there is the way it goes. I think you're super attractive. Do you like avocados? That second bit is not necessary. Don't do that bit, please. But really, like what Robin is talking about there is that it is better to be a pirate in life. There are these unwritten, and I think this often, there are these unwritten rules that as mankind we are following, not asking whether they're actually real rules or just made up. Do you remember Tom Kerridge when he told us that? He said, I'd rather be a pirate than join the Navy.

15:17Jake Humphrey: Yeah. And we were talking about how we set up his Michelin star kitchens that he was defying convention. Yeah, and that's why he became so successful. Have you seen the film Smallford? Smallford's hilarious, but basically there's all of these yetis that live up in the mountains, and they live their entire life by a set of rules written on the stones, but no one's ever seen them. And every time they try and leave the village, someone goes, no, no, no, it's written in the stones. Where are the stones? Are they at the bottom of a cave and no one ever sees the stones? And it was only when they, it's a really good film, and then they get discovered by an explorer and they leave.

15:55One yeti leaves the village and goes and tells everyone, like, there's a whole world out there. And they're like, no, there can't be because it's written in the stones. There isn't a world. If you leave, you die because it says so in the stones and no one knows where the stones are. And there's a lot of that about the way we all live our lives. Like, oh, I better not take a chance and take a risk. I better make sure that I seek permission before I do something because that's the way that human beings are. Imagine if there are no rules. We're making it up. Yeah, make your own rules. Exactly. Should we go on to our next point that I think is interesting?

16:31And you can speak better to this than I can, I think.

16:33Jake Humphrey: Yeah, well, this is the idea of sort of like starting from the idea of demystifying the process and explaining that nobody starts by having the answers at the beginning of the process. There's, again, a really interesting piece of research on this from a psychologist called Chia Jung Tse, who played professional musicians two recordings. One was a pianist that she described as just a natural talent, and the other one was almost like she described him as a grafter, like a real workhorse. When musicians listened to the piece of music, they believed that effort mattered more than talent, so they rated the natural as more talented and more hireable.

17:10Jake Humphrey: But both recordings were the exact same pianist playing exactly the same piece. So in a later study, the experts have done this where they've spoken to leaders and said you can either recruit somebody that's naturally talented at the tasks that you want or somebody that's really had to work hard to get to it and again what you find is that people tend to go for the one that they would describe as a natural so the wider point i'm making jake is that there's people ahead of us that we often believe they have to hide their hard work you know it's that famous quote from Picasso that said if people knew how hard I'd work they wouldn't think it was a genius but we don't like to look at the hard work we like to look at the outcome and go oh they're naturally gifted and I think sometimes it creates a moat between us and them that goes that's why they're there and I'm not yeah because I haven't got the same gifts whereas if we can acknowledge it's because I haven't done the hard work is it would lead us to a very different conclusion can I play a clip from Alan the Bottom, because he speaks exactly about this, this kind of, this concept that we can't be where other people are because they are a god and we're a mere mortal.

18:21And he isn't right. Here he is.

18:24Alain de Botton: I think they have to get a powerful sense that the world is made by human beings, not by gods. And this could sound a bit odd because you might think, well, no one thinks the world is made by gods. But I think we sometimes, it's a very natural childlike position. When When you first show up at school, you're tiny, you're the size of a small chair. And the teacher is a giant, really. And it seems like they control the whole of the world. And they tell you this and that. And you've got to learn this. And you've got to do it like that. And from that, we take away a sense that the world is built, according to laws we don't quite understand, by people who are immeasurably more powerful and skilled.

19:00Alain de Botton: And something's going on in a room somewhere where people are pulling the levers, et cetera. I think to give your child a sense, it's a world built by humans, all of whom are basically a little bit like you, a bit scared, a bit worried, a bit flawed, a bit good, a bit bad, etc. And you can have a shot at shaping how you see your life. I think it's a very important lesson. You walk down the street. Why does the street look the way it does? Because someone had a really bad idea about what urban design was in about 50 years ago. And that's why the street looks as awful as it does. there's no law in this.

19:35Alain de Botton: We could be living in a beautiful town maybe and you, child, might design the beautiful town if you get into that sort of position. So rather than saying the way it is is the way it has to be.

19:50Jake Humphrey: I love that because that's the point of saying that I've seen you do this really effectively, Jake, when you speak to audiences sometimes and ask them about who do they admire, who do they look up to and then you follow it up with a series of questions. Just remind me of it. Well, so it's all about the fact that I think almost all of our unhappiness comes from comparison. Yep. And it's comparing ourselves with others, but it's also comparing ourselves with where we wish that we actually were. So often I will feel like when I'm up on stage talking to people, they'll be comparing themselves to me.

20:25So a few times people have come up to me afterwards and said, it's all right for you to stand up there and talk about high performance and success because you've built companies, you've got a popular podcast, you've been on the TV, you've done well for yourself. And I often feel like saying all of those things are true and I fully empathise and understand where you're coming from, but that also negates all of the shit going on in my brain and in my life that you know nothing about. And I think when someone wants to be someone else, like let's say someone's listening to this and their neighbour has just bought a brand new car that they've always dreamed of, and they're thinking, man, I'd love to be them and drive that car.

21:00Okay, you'd love to be them. Well, that involves you giving up your kids and having their kids. So do you want to never see your kids again because you're comparing your life to theirs? The mental health challenges they've got that you've never seen, you get those as well. The bad relationship with a parent they suffer with, you want that as well. The awful toxic boss that they have to park with every day so they can afford to buy that car that you envy, you want that as well. Like you can't cherry pick the nice stuff from the world and only want that because no one in the world is able to just have the good stuff.

21:30We all have the good and the bad. And I think it's an important point when we're talking about this idea of, you know, Alan de Botton's point about putting other people on a pedestal or thinking that other people are gods or that they have the way forwards and we don't, therefore we're never going to take a leap. Everybody is a myriad of emotions, positive, negative, they're having highs and lows. Like we're all the same. The reality is that some people have just realized there's a real power in going after the life that they want.

21:59Jake Humphrey: and I think there's a flip side to it as well of like if you if you find yourself in a position where people are putting you on that kind of pedestal it's actually dangerous for you also because then you become so when you do slip when you do make a mistake when you there is an indiscretion there's almost further to fall it reminds me of the conversation we had with the brilliant adam grant the organizational psychologist at wharton who gave us a two very different examples of when he had to go into uh west point academy speaking to military generals and he describes two very different outcomes based on how he chose to approach it second time around was this where he almost gave up public speaking because of what happened yeah yeah yeah yeah let's hear that oh it's a great clip yeah it's great but the more i thought about it the more i realized that when people are at the top of their game we we find them almost almost unattainable right they they seem so great that they're they're out of reach for mere mortals and they're supposed to be inspiring but they just become daunting yeah and i thought okay the the best way to show how difficult this work is of trying to get to high performance is to actually show the work behind the scenes along the way.

23:20And I think that what stops most of us from achieving high performance or even higher performance is that we're more interested in improving ourselves than we are in improving ourselves. So we're trying to feed our egos as opposed to fuel our growth. When I think I was 25, I had just finished my doctorate. I was asked to teach a group of of colonels and generals in the U S air force. Right. And I walked into this room and it was like a scene out of top gun. These guys had flown thousands of hours. They had multi-billion dollar budgets. Uh, and they were, they were literally heroes. And I thought my job was to convince them that I was an expert and I had a lot to teach them.

24:02And I, you know, I started talking about my credentials and I was trying to impress them. And the feedback was even tougher than what I got from my early students. I remember one of the people in the audience had written, there's more knowledge in the audience than on the podium. Like, yeah, that's true. You all are twice my age and you're really accomplished. But then another one wrote, I gained nothing from this session, but I trust that the instructor gained useful insight. We'll be right back after a quick word from our partners. Today's episode is brought to you by Olympic Hospitality. The Olympic Games are coming to Los Angeles in 2028.

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25:57It's like a dagger to the heart. and I want to quit at that point. I'm going to crawl into a hole. I'm never going to teach a group of senior leaders again, but I had already committed to do a second session. I'm staring at these tough guys and I say, I know what you're thinking right now. What could I possibly learn from a professor who's 12 years old? And nobody reacts. Stunned silence. And I'm sitting there for what feels like an eternity. And finally, one of the guys pipes up and says, oh that's ridiculous you got to be at least 13 and the whole room started cracking up and I'm more or less taught the same content but it changed the relationship I had with the audience it's very interesting isn't it because as much as that's Adam talking about being on stage there's also a chance for us he says that it changed the relationship I had with the audience there's a chance for us to change the relationship we have with the rest of the world that if we can just come with vulnerability like he did in that moment and accept that this might be a good or a bad day, right?

27:05Then it allows us to move forwards. I think only daring to move forwards if we're guaranteeing ourselves a good outcome means we probably never move forwards because there's no certainty. So this vulnerability, and we've spoken about this so often because it's so important, if we can approach life with a vulnerability, then it allows us to do stuff that we would never do if we're trying to hold fixed to our ego and our ambition.

27:27Jake Humphrey: Do you remember when we sat with Brené Brown and she spoke about going into the Seattle Seahawks and she spoke about what's courage and people stood up and said there is no courage without vulnerability and there's almost no permission to move forward without admitting that we're vulnerable and then we go back to the point one we discussed which is when you admit I'm struggling here, I need help you'd be surprised just how many people will reach out to give you that help. But it isn't easy doing this and I think that's the other point we have to make. I think sometimes, I hope it's not often but I know that sometimes over the last few years of doing this show we might have been guilty of taking really quite a complex challenge for our audience and going just do it, it's fine, just go for it.

28:10What have you got to lose? It's not that easy for people to actually do it and I think this is a really important point that we've arrived at now this sense of taking accountability for the outcome. So we've kind of explained that there's nowhere to hide. We've explained that, you know, you have to do something that puts you in a very vulnerable position, but the alternative is to do nothing. We also have to understand that if we are going to live a life like this, the rewards are great, but there's also no one to blame if something goes wrong. And there's actually a bunch of clips that we can play, and it might be quite nice to play like two or three in this little section just so people get a real understanding of where our expert guests sit on this.

28:51Jake Humphrey: Well, what I'd encourage people to do. You're right, I like this. I think, let's listen to three of them. But I'd encourage people to listen a little bit more acutely and see if they can spot the consistent pattern. There's three guests we'll listen to here. What's the consistent pattern you're hearing in what they're telling us? Nice. Well, let's hear from each one. We'll talk briefly in between them, but then at the end, maybe you can explain the pattern for those that don't notice. Okay, here is the UFC fighter, the boxer, the heavyweight punching machine, Francis Ngannou. People can help you, but the only person that will help you and decide on your life and change your life is you.

29:31From the moment that you take that decision and put the work in, that's when you change your life. Somebody can bring everything in your life. we have we every of us know somebody that was born in a great family and they take good care and trying to make him a good life and he still ended up being an idiot it's all about you so i like to take credit myself for what i've become as he should because you know he wasn't born into great privilege actually he was born into really challenging circumstances, which people can hear if they listen to the episode. And by the way, you can find the links to all of the episodes you'll hear clips from in the description to this podcast.

30:16But that's a very interesting concept, isn't it? That people can help you, but the only person that will help you decide on your life and change your life is you. Taking not just a bit of responsibility, but 100 % responsibility for where your life is headed.

30:31Jake Humphrey: But what I like there is the flip side of it, that we always assume taking responsibilities when things go wrong. That also means you take responsibility when things go right, which is what Francis was saying. No, no, I can take the credit. And he's not being big-headed or he's not being complacent. He's being very honest because he views failure in the same way. Let's listen to Shane Parrish. He's the author of the brilliant book, Clear Thinking. And this is as clear a definition of taking responsibility as you'll hear. And I was like, I don't want to do this anymore. And I am the one in control of my life.

31:08I'm not going to do this because I'm guilted into it. I'm not going to do it because you feel I should be doing it. I'm going to do this because this is what I want to do. And if I fail doing what I want to do, that's a better place for me to be than succeeding at something I don't want to do. We keep talking about doing things without doing it, but talking about something is not doing it. It's not the same thing, but we're getting rewarded for it's almost as if we're doing it, but we're not actually doing anything. If I fail at what I want to do, that's a better place than succeeding at something that I don't want to do.

31:40I mean, nothing more needs to be said at this point, right, about that clip, because it's just perfect. So I will take us on to Tom Kerridge, the celebrated chef. Here is another banging clip from the archive.

31:53Tom Kerridge: Nobody else is going to do it for you. The only person that can do this is you. So the only person that has to put that risk is you. The only person that has to push themselves is you. And you can be surrounded by lots of people telling you that's what you've got to do, but if you don't do it, it's only you that can do it. So it's risk, it's sacrifice, and it's commitment. And that makes it sound like it's a really shit thing. Because if you say to everyone, you have to risk everything, you have to sacrifice so much, and you have to be fully, fully committed, how many people go, oh, yeah, that's for me?

32:27Jake Humphrey: So if you've been listening to all three of them really clearly, you'll see that there's a pattern to what they're talking about. And the best way of describing it is high agency. So Albert Manjura is the psychologist on this that talks about self-efficacy. And in his research, what he basically says is people that have high levels of self-efficacy tend to be happier, healthier, and more successful in whatever domain that they're operating in. And that's what you've just heard Shane, Tom, and Francis all articulate that if it's going to be, it's up to me. And taking that accountability for the good and the bad, the results that they get.

33:06Jake Humphrey: Low self-advocacy is where you don't believe that you've got much influence. There's nothing I can do. I'm just a victim of my circumstances. And that's where we often feel disempowered and therefore our likelihood of persisting and keeping going or finding alternative ways becomes severely diminished. So going back to this idea of that nobody's going to give you permission but we can start finding like micro ways of becoming better at taking high self-efficacy like what what are the micro ways again if we use an example from a previous guest jamila jamil she spoke about when she went to um a therapist and i still love this line where she went to a therapist and the therapist said the only difference between you and a doormat is a doormat knows its job is to have its feet wiped on it ouch and she was like because you just keep saying yes when you mean no so you need to practice micro nose just having your ability to have your voice heard and action to follow so she said it's like the example of you haven't made the coffee in the right way if you've ordered a coffee and they bring you the wrong type don't just accept it because i don't want to make a fuss sorry you can ask politely but this is what i asked for would you mind doing it again she said and just learning to start practicing micro nose I need to do that I'm rubbish at that rubbish yeah yeah yeah

34:26Tom Kerridge: I let little things slip all the time I don't really know why I get like I don't know but again

34:32Jake Humphrey: but you're not somebody that doesn't believe that you've got a low sense of agency you're somebody that does still make things happen so I'd say maybe that's not something to worry about but if you're somebody that believes you're the victim of circumstances rather than the agent of the situation you find yourself in and you're thinking how do I make that leap maybe just start really small just making certain requests and making your voice heard and letting people um actually do what you want to interesting so on the way down here on on the train today as often probably happens to you as well you're sitting down and someone just turns and goes are you from that podcast you're like yeah yeah and i was talking to someone on the train and this is what are you recording today what guests have you got and i said oh we've got a guest but we're also recording our wednesday episodes and one of the topics of conversation for one of the episodes is that, you know, no one's coming to save you.

35:21The permission you're waiting for to go out into the world and turn it into what you want it to is entirely up to you and no one else. And they said, man, that sounds really good, but really scary at the same time. And it reminded me of this sort of sense of the fact that fear is often what stops us from doing all these things we're talking about. But I actually have this idea that fear is for the brave. Go on. well I think if you're a coward then you're not willing to stare it in the face yep but if you're fearful you're living in that place where you're feeling the fear the difference is and I definitely had this when I was younger I used to have this idea growing up that if you feel the fear you stop and go a different direction yep and then as you know someone bought me a book by a lady called Susan Jeffers when I was 17 called Feel the Fear and Do It Anyway so I just wanted to sort of have this very short pit stop where I say like, the things we're asking people to do in this episode or the things we're challenging them with are not very easy.

36:22And it's totally understandable that you will hear people like Francis and Shane and Tom talking about going for it and going, no, no, that's scary. What we're not saying is that high performers have an absence of fear when they're doing these things. They have the fear, but they do it anyway. You are fearless if you feel fearful. Yes. and you go for it that's the epitome of being fearless it's not having no fear yes it's learning

36:49Jake Humphrey: to dance with it learning to dance with it yeah i remember i mean when i was a kid and growing up in the boxing gyms and when i used to go and box like that terror was real like it was i could physically describe it in my stomach like that the pit of my stomach just feeling like it was churning and you sort of dry mouthed and at that moment in time if anyone's saying do you want to leave the room at this point in time you'd snatch the hand off if that was offered and at the time I didn't appreciate it but learning just to stand in that moment of abject terror and learning to control your breathing learning to sort of try and like harness your thoughts in something more helpful was really powerful like you know from a young age and when we sat opposite um tom aspinall who said the first person he's almost like the first athlete in mma that talks about that same abject error and because he for years assumed that these people who's watching on the telly were alan de botton's gods they don't feel fair and i do so therefore it means i'm lacking something and I think you're right if you can start normalising that language of this is your brain doing its job it's a physiological response to something that your brain is interpreting as something to be wary of let's accept it and let's stay in that discomfort rather than assume it's a flaw and we're not talking as well by the way of going in the boxing ring or rewriting entire rules of your life or taking a leap and travelling around the world you know the things that we're discussing here are the everyday decisions that people are paralyzed to take.

38:35So I love Shane Parrish, so I'm going to play another clip from him because he's actually the perfect guest for this show. This idea of the very first step is the hardest, but the very first step is the most important. You know, James Clear said to us, the heaviest weight at the gym is the front door, right? Because it's the starting that is difficult. So here's Shane Parrish with a similar idea. I call it first step confidence. You need the confidence or next step confidence to take the next step. And so if you want to leave your job, I don't need the confidence to be able to leave my job. I need the confidence to acquire the next skill I need to put myself in a better position.

39:13Jake Humphrey: You articulated it just as well as Shane from Frozen.

39:19Tom Kerridge: Just do the next right thing. Yes. Olaf. Just do the next right thing. But it's the same thing. It's the same wisdom that you were watching with the kids. You were saying that Shane Parrish is Olaf from Frozen. That is basically offensive to him. He will never come back on the show now.

39:35Jake Humphrey: I might need my boxing skills if he is that and it sticks one on me. But no, the point that we're making is that it is this idea of don't think about scaling the mountain. Just think about getting your shoes on. Don't think about quitting your job. Just sort of, just go and look on the job market. just open a just start cv up just do something because like shane uses a great phrase in his book he talks about first step coming so it's about the lead domino sometimes the lead domino the first one you knock down can start a chain reaction that bigger change follows but the lead domino always has to fall so what's the lead domino that you can do that starts that chain reaction of making yourself feel more equipped and giving yourself permission and when it comes to the lead domino one of the big things that we've heard time and time again from our audience reaching out to us and by the way if you've enjoyed this conversation please send us a message please send us your questions you can find us on instagram uh high performance um you can like share subscribe to the episodes but one thing people talk to us a lot about is it's not the right time so let's hear from holly tucker the founder of not on the high street.com who shared the concept with us of yeah there is never a perfect time here she is there's never a perfect time just like having children you know there's no space in the diary to have a kid um you know so you just got to go for it you know when you start a business what does that actually mean right now if you're listening to this podcast and you've got that idea congratulations because you've started right now it's just the mindset it's not the business card or the team or the premises or the equipment it's the mindset that you're going to do this Holly's point's brilliant there and one of my favourite psychologists on the habit forming is Katie Milkman she works with Adam Grant at Walsham University yeah I like that yeah that's good but she talks about that we all go looking for like the perfect start line so Google records searches for diet jump at the start of a week or at the start of a new year students hit the gym more straight after they've had a birthday.

41:49Jake Humphrey: You know, there's almost something real about wanting to have a fresh start in life. But Holly's right, there's never going to be a perfect starting point because there's always going to be another Monday coming along at any time. There's a brilliant book by Stephen Pressfield called The Art of War, and he cites a piece of research done by a guy called Robert Boyce in this with academics who were stuck where one group was told that they could only write when they felt inspired to do so, and another group were told to sit down every day, whether they felt like it or not, and just write something.

42:22Jake Humphrey: If they skipped a session, they had to send a check off to an organisation that they despised. What they found is those that wrote when the inspiration struck posted about a fifth a day. Those that wrote, even when they didn't feel like it, wrote about three pages a day. So the point they're making is that, and Stephen Pressfield talks about this, amateurs wait for inspiration, professionals just get on with the job. That's interesting. Can I just wait for inspiration? Professionals just get on with it. Yeah. So you're not waiting for that bolt of lightning to come and somebody to go, oh, you're ready.

42:55Jake Humphrey: Just show up and do it. Okay. So I'm now going to throw a complete curveball into this because this whole episode is the permission you're waiting for doesn't exist. And we've explained to people that the world isn't looking for you. You've got to be found in the world. This idea that no one has the answers. Stop putting people on a pedestal thinking they're going to change the world for you because they're not. And the importance of taking accountability. We've discussed that. And then this idea that there isn't a perfect starting point. Like, as you've just explained, you just have to get on with it.

43:25Despite all of those things, we've had the amazing Amanda Blanc on the show.

43:31Jake Humphrey: The dame. The dame Amanda Blanc, who is one of the most inspiring people that you and I have ever met. Yeah, I love her. She's a good friend of the show. She's a good friend of ours. She grew up in a Welsh mining town. She's now the CEO of Viva, a FTSE 100 company. She's an amazing example, actually, of the fact that nobody is coming to save us because she's done it for herself. Yet she talks really well about the fact that sometimes the one thing that there is in life is someone to come and save us. So have a listen to her. But look, I think everybody has that. I think men and women. It's not just something that women suffer with, but but girls girls and women particularly if i you know the number of of young talented women that i speak to at aviva and they are just all they need is to be told that they're good enough to do the next thing all that's all it takes is somebody to say why don't you apply for that job you've got all the right skills to be able to do all the capability to be able to do why wouldn't you put yourself forward and then a little push and that and then you get people going that's all it takes but then you get the opportunity to actually fix something which you inherently believe is fantastic but has been badly managed or badly led or bad decisions have been taken and you think actually do you know what I I could do a better job than that and then you have to have a bit of confidence so my head is thinking could I do a better job of that yeah I think I probably could I think I'm probably a good leader I think I'm probably a good communicator I think I probably know what needs to be done and by the way I do get shit done I think I really could and then you have to back yourself I have to have a bit of arrogance you know you have to think I can do it even though countless others have failed so which is it we've just spent the last half an hour telling people that no one's coming to save you and then amanda blanc says actually all it takes is for someone to come and save you someone in a senior position to see what you are capable of and make it happen for you and i've also because my my career was defined by failing my a levels

45:45Tom Kerridge: getting into telly and someone giving me a job yeah so i was in my whole career has been built on someone in a senior position thinking that i'm capable of stuff before i realize i am yeah so i've try to do that for others so which is it are people coming to save us or not well i think both

46:01Jake Humphrey: are true i think the gap between them is the really useful bit on here so the point is nobody is waiting to come along and give you permission so don't spend your time waiting for that but also being willing to be open to somebody that might come and spot that potential long before it that and if that happens that's great and embrace it do you remember see a calice you're saying to us too many people spend their time moaning that they've not been given an opportunity and when the opportunity does land, they're not ready to take it. So I think we can still make things happen for ourselves. And then if somebody does come along and go, Jake, like when you were at Rapture, I think you've got the ability to stand in front of a camera and engage a viewer.

46:40Jake Humphrey: Why would you not want to embrace that when it does happen? Okay, so how do we sum this up for people? I think that what I would say is, yes, George Russell wrote to Mercedes and met Toto Wolff, right? we can all create our own version of a letter to Mercedes. It doesn't guarantee we get a seat in Formula One. But I believe we're far better to still write the letter and to know, to never write the letter and never know. I've said this to you before. I don't want, and I don't want you, and I don't want anyone listening to this to be on their deathbed with the ghosts of missed opportunities floating around them saying, why didn't you believe in yourself?

47:19Why didn't you take that one chance? Why didn't you make the best of that one opportunity? That's the place that none of us want to be. And I think the things we've spoken about in this episode means that we won't be there if we follow the advice from the people that have been on our show.

47:33Jake Humphrey: Yeah, there's two things I'd want people to take away. One, stop waiting for the moment when you feel ready because that will never arrive. So that's normal. And then the second thing is just prize the power of the small step. It doesn't have to be a big leap. This can just be a small step. it's the open the door and get out there it can be the Shane Parrish one just take that small first step that is to be prized because that's the lead domino that can start a catalyst that can change your life So good Before we wrap up just a few comments from you Hello to Fightwave They enjoyed the George Russell episode they said the maturity of Russell at such a young age is beyond amazing to see There was loads of comments on our episode about Alan de Botton

48:20Tom Kerridge: maybe you can read the first one purely so you can say the username yeah mary shirena rose ruma mary shirena rose ruma rosie rosie rumour mary shirena rosie rumour 7097

48:37Jake Humphrey: thanks for setting me up there but rosie mary shirena rumour 7097 told us that alander botten's been a very positive influence in my life and ours too rose he claimed he never claims to have all the answers but instead he makes me think helps me reflect but most of all he's been teaching me how to live and embrace my being human nice and wu wei 6316 every time it feels overwhelming and then attempt to move forward seems to make no sense i return then listen again and again and again to the alan the bottom episode it gives me a fresh start damien thank you very much thanks mate i enjoyed it absolutely listen you at home know what to do please like subscribe and share if there's someone in your life that you think would really benefit from hearing Damien and I sitting here and explaining that the permission you're waiting for doesn't exist, please just send them this episode.

49:26I'd love them to get this. Please like, please subscribe, please share. And remember, stay humble, curious and empathetic. And we'll see you next time.

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51:08Get all the insights at acast.com slash pulse.