The sliding doors moments that can shape your life (with Kieran Trippier, Francis Ngannou, Stef Reid, Matt Willis and Jamie Peacock)

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1:38Hey, welcome along to another episode of High Performance. So what we love to do on Fridays is basically have a bit of fun, play around really with what High Performance is, what High Performance stands for, but also making use of the hundreds and hundreds of conversations that we've had over the last five years to get to this point. And we were chatting and we sort of picked up on one thing that is a recurring theme with all of our guests and we thought we'd talk about it didn't we yeah i think the concept of a sliding doors moment is something that intrigues us you know the idea of how life could play out very differently if we'd have taken a different path the road least traveled is the one that often intrigues us and that's really what we want to explore in this episode is there a sliding doors moment in your life that you suddenly think about when people talk about sliding doors?

2:22Yeah definitely. I got expelled from school for fighting and a teacher turned up that night at my house and explained that if I promised to behave myself he was going to persuade the head teacher to let me come back and I often think what life would have been like if that teacher, Mr. Council, hadn't chosen to stand up for me in that way. You know I'm only alive because of a sliding doors moment. Well my granddad had a farming accident in the 60s and broke his back. So my dad, who was living away from home, went back home, ran the family farm for his dad, my granddad, who was left disabled and couldn't do it.

3:00And that's how he met my mum. Now, if he hadn't gone back, he'd never met my mum. They'd have never got married, never had kids. We wouldn't be having this conversation right now. And even I remember when me and you met, Stuart Webber, the former sporting director at Norwich City, invited you to the football club to talk to the players, invited me to go and watch. Well, he actually messaged me and said, do you want to come and see a game sometime? And that was about the only game I could make. And we ended up sitting next to each other at dinner, got chatting. So you can go as far back as if Stuart Webber wasn't interested in football.

3:29You and I wouldn't be having this conversation. Everywhere we look, there are sliding doors moments. And we've seen... It reminds me of that. You know, on Back to the Future, when he goes back and he interferes. And I can hear the song Earth Angel playing as we disappear from the photographs. It's weird, isn't it? But when you stop to actually think about it, I think it's quite grounding because we all spend our days thinking, if only I'd done this, if only I'd made that decision, if only I hadn't gone here. You can't think like that because you've got no idea what that other life would have been.

3:58Well, Oliver Bergman in that brilliant book that we both read, 4 ,000 Weeks, talks about this, that we often torment ourselves with sort of playing out, well, if it had taken that path, life would have been so much different and would be better. But we'll never know those parallel lives. We don't have that time to live those parallel lives. So we have to just make the best of the moments that we're in and like you say and be humble enough to recognize that there are always moments where life could go in a slightly different direction you almost have to get to a point where you have to accept there are thousands of lives you could lead but you're not going to you're only going to lead the life that you're going to lead and let go yeah well should we go into a few clips then from guests that have spoken about this sort of thing yeah because i often think those moments where they share it often stop us in our tracks they've really frozen in my mind and And I think the first one that is worth sharing is the conversation we had with Matt Willis, where he spoke about his battle with addiction.

4:52And often we talk about hitting rock bottom, a moment where the person that's dealing with that addiction decides that they want to change their life. And there's a really powerful example that Matt shared with us. I always wanted to be a dad. You know, when I think back to everything in my life, The only thing I ever wanted to be was a father. I had the image of them in my head. I kind of could imagine myself being a dad. I knew what I wasn't going to do, you know, a very strong opinion on what I wasn't going to do and what kind of father I was going to be. And I had my daughter and she was about eight months and I missed her crawling for the first time and my wife's birthday party because I was out getting fucked.

5:38and the next day I kind of um I woke up and Emma came in she didn't shout at me she didn't yell at me she just told me what I'd missed and that she wasn't gonna stand for it and and it it hit me all of a sudden that I was gonna be a terrible father and it was the the one thing that I had always planned not to be the only thing I'd ever planned not to be and I was gonna do that and I was going to do that to this little, little person who I loved more than I'd ever felt in my entire life and I was going to repeat that cycle of shit, you know, and, and it, and it made me drop to my knees and, and ask for help, you know, for the first time ever, like, and mean it, you know, like, I was always kind of mitigating damage, you know, I was always kind of trying to keep people, keep all these fucking plates in the air, you know, like, but at this point I was like, I have nothing that I can do, you know, because everything I do is not working.

6:41I need help. And it was, and it really, and I asked for help and I was given it. And that was the real turning point in my life with addiction, really. What a powerful clip. Yeah, that moment of surrender. It stopped me in my tracks. It reminded me of, I remember when my wife stopped me once and just said, is this what you expected married life to be like? I remember sort of going, well, let's start with you because it's obviously not meeting what you want. And then it was a moment of clarity of I was working ridiculous hours, I was away too much. And she just was reminding me, but a bit like what Matt describes there, not shouting at you, just asking you a question that makes you ponder the path you're on.

7:29The interesting thing here, though, is that I think when it comes to these sliding doors moments, Obviously, there are big kind of physical moments, shall we call them, where life just takes you down a certain path. You know, you get on a train and it takes you somewhere or something happens at your job. You lose your job, you get a job, whatever. This is a much, it feels like in the grand scheme of life, a much smaller moment than those. It's like it's a quiet conversation in a bedroom between a couple. I think the key with these sliding doors moments is the moment where you're open to it. You know, if Matt had been closed to this, no matter what his wife had said, it wouldn't have made any difference.

8:04And Emma obviously chose her words brilliantly and managed to have an impact. But Matt still had to be open to allow that into his life. And I think there's a good lesson there for our listeners about this mindset. What did Johnny Wilkinson said? You know, high performance is exploration. You have to have this mindset of exploration. You have to allow yourself to be sent down certain avenues and just see what's there, I think. Yeah, definitely. But on top of that, I think it's the fact that very often these sliding doors moments don't announce themselves in big grand gestures. It's the quiet moments where they force you to stop and think.

8:41You know, like if you think of some of the most profound messages you have in your life, someone telling you I love you or somebody has passed away or something really significant, it's not delivered in big grand eloquent speeches. is it's often just those quiet well-chosen words that your brain is open to then consider it and i think that's something really powerful there from both matt and emma and that reminds me actually of another conversation when we had kieran trippy on the podcast yes and he spoke about the message from his mom should we have a listen to that and yeah that was a great one there was one time where my mom came um because again i was young i was on more money and And, you know, I was doing silly things like going out drinking and stuff like that.

9:25And there was one moment in my career where I didn't really want to play anymore. And I'll never forget it. I was living in Barnsley on my own in an apartment and my mum drove up. And, yeah, she just sat me down and just made me realize what they sacrificed, you know. And, you know, every day, Monday to Saturday, me and my brother, because we didn't really grow up as a wealthy family, you know. my mum and dad have worked so hard to get us in the position we're in today so I think that was the one moment in my career where I really realized you know how much it meant to my mum and that was definitely a turning point for me it's a really interesting one this I think because you you have to have those conversations sometimes with people but also you have to allow people to live the life they want to live and in this occasion it's the it's a great example because Kieran has gone on to play for England captain newcastle win trophies like he's had a great career um but at the same time it could have not been the right answer do you know what i mean like you don't yeah if someone says i want to stop doing something i know as a parent you do your best to encourage them to do the right thing but we do have to let stuff go sometimes yeah definitely and i think the reason that kieran trip is so good is because you can almost see the two parallel lives that could have been like because we've we see the the public profile of him captain of newcastle scoring goals in World Cup semifinals and you can see what it did eventually lead to but you can also see lots of players that did squander that talent that they would have had and where they ended up so you can see the pathways that it did and again I love the intervention of his mum there just reminding them of the fact that it wasn't a solo endeavour what he was choosing to do the impact of his decision was going to be felt in ripples by the family that had also sacrificed stuff Can I choose a very different clip now?

11:15when it comes to sliding doors, because I think both of those clips are conversations with loved ones who want the best for you. And I think in some ways, we can accept those sliding doors moments because they make sense to us. But there are also things that happen in our lives that make absolutely no sense to us at all. And getting to a place of acceptance for those things is really powerful. And we were joined by Steph Reid, Paralympic athlete, as you remember, who spoke to us about the sliding doors moment in her life, the catastrophic sliding doors moment in her life. And I'd like us to hear her relive that story.

11:48Is that okay? Yeah, that was really powerful. Just before my 16th birthday, everything changed. I was up at a friend's cottage on a lake. They had a motorboat. And one of the things that we had done is we went tubing. The driver's going fast enough. He's taking turns. You're trying to hang on for dear life. He's trying to flip you off. And for whatever reason, the driver had no idea that I was in the water. I saw the boat coming. And then I just realized this is coming way too fast. He doesn't see me. And that is when your body just switches into survival mode. And all I'm thinking is, Stephanie, you have got to miss those propellers.

12:21And I thought my best bet right now is to surface dive below the water. I'll get as far below as I can. The boat will pass over top. I'll hold my breath. It's going to be fine. You know, it was a good plan. I just forgot that I had a life jacket on. I couldn't get under. That was the moment. I just thought, that's it. There's actually nothing I can do. It felt like forever. And I just remember darkness. Unfortunately, I did get caught in the propellers. all you think about is just life is never going to look the same again. And actually, I'm not sure right now I want that life. Now, the reason why I wanted to call this clip up is because actually it's only half the story.

12:51And I think we could have a bit of a conversation here about is that the sliding doors moment or is what came next the sliding doors moment? And is our life full of hundreds of thousands of sliding doors moments or only full of two or three really significant ones? What do you think? I think you're right. I think there's some seminal moments in your life like this, where Steph ends up having her life irrevocably changed by losing a leg in the accident. But the second and what I'd argue is the most significant sliding doors moment is not the fact of losing a leg, it's how she chooses to react to it.

13:24And there's a really powerful example of that that she offered us when she was in hospital. And she was in, understandably, victim mode. Why me? Why has this happened? and it was the intervention of one of the care workers that was another critical moment in her story. Let's listen to her explain this one. I had an amazing moment seven days after the accident and I sometimes think my goodness who would I be if this hadn't have happened but um it was it was a Monday morning seven days after the accident initially happened and a nurse Claudette walked into the room and she had breakfast and I looked at her and I just said, you know, I don't, I don't feel like eating today and kind of just closed my eyes waiting for her to get the hint and just go away.

14:15Like, I'm just, I just don't like, just leave me be. Please just let me be here and wallow. That is what I want to do today. And then, you know, I kind of opened my eyes a little bit to see if she had gone. And instead, she was right there. And she looked me straight in the eye and said, very kindly, but very firmly, it's time. It is time to get up and do something. Others have done it. You can do it too. And that was actually quite shocking. because for seven days, everybody had pretty much just felt sorry for me and let me get away with whatever I wanted. And she was the first person to walk into that room and actually expect something better than moping.

15:06She was not accepting the pity party. And initially, I mean, I was shocked. I thought, I am sick and I am sad and I have earned this. I have earned the right to sit here and feel miserable and have everyone else feel sorry for me. But she was also the first person who came in and challenged me. And that actually felt really good. I've always been someone who responded to a challenge. That's what I loved about sport. That's what I loved about competition. And she appealed to that. And that morning after she left, I ate my breakfast. And I showered. And something just shifted. I find it very interesting you know that again it comes back to this idea of human connection this idea of a conversation but I think what was very different about Steph Reed's example is you know Matt Willis's wife was saying look at what you're going to miss you know and Kieran Trippi's mum was saying look at the sacrifices we've made whereas this is a much blunter in some ways much harsher lesson from this nurse that it is time like you you have this now and i love this idea of the fact that we're talking about sliding doors we're talking about all the things that you're out of control of in your life but actually choosing to take control is the most important element when it comes to a sliding doors moment because they will all come our way our reaction to what happens yep far more important than what's happened yeah and i suppose if there's a theme that runs all the way through this is that every one of our guests has spoken about that moment where they make a mental adjustment they're not a victim they're now in control of their life and what they choose to do in response to what's happened to them and we've often spoken about this in terms of the locus of control if you put the locus of control outside of your life this is down to where i grew or what my parents did or didn't do for me what my boss hasn't recognized for me you're giving away that responsibility.

17:05Whereas when you go, I don't control that bit, but what I do control is how I think, how I speak, how I choose to behave. That then gives some sense of power. And I think that's very much what Steph spoke about there. It was that mental adjustment. Do you not think that we also have to allow for the period that came before the it's time moment? Because I think that sometimes we can sound a bit robotic and a bit harsh and a bit simplistic to say, these major things happen the locus of control is what determines the outcome like steph deserved to wallow like didn't she she deserved to lay in that hospital bed we all when these things happen we all deserve to be confused or to be down like we need to give ourselves that time yeah but then we also then have to realize when the moment is right to come out of that moment yeah i think it was significant she started that clip by saying seven days after and it was that idea that of course you're going to grieve the life that you once had you know and I think there's another clip that we'll listen to now where seven days was a suitable period of time for our next guest to tell us about how they could reflect on a decision they didn't take and then choose to take a different path afterwards it was the interview we did with the former England rugby league captain Jamie Peacock who has adopted this moment as a mantra for his whole life which is about get off the bus.

18:26Let's listen to him explain why that's so significant. 18 and a half years old, I start to get watched by the Bradford Bulls. So the Bradford Bulls scouts start to come down and watch me play for my amateur club. Then they speak to my coach, speak to my dad and they want me to come up and train for the first team for the day. So news gets back to me. I'm thinking this is sliding doors moment. It's changed your life forever but loads of self-doubt inside of me because I think to myself, I've got to train with people I watch on TV, you know, my heroes who play on BBC on Sky Sports big challenge is this, which I'm racked with self-doubt, but I'm thinking I've got to do it, you've got to take this opportunity so the following week I catch the bus from where I live in Leeds up to Bradford, 20 to 30 minute journey up to Hudson Stadium and on this journey I get more and more nervous and more and more self-talk, makes the negative self-talk, gets the self-doubt bigger and bigger and bigger And what were you saying to yourself?

19:24just that this is too big for you this is you know it's going to be really good people are going to laugh at you you're not going to be good enough to play with these first team players I'm thinking this is a huge challenge I'm not sure I'm good enough to do it easiest thing for me to do I think is just stay on the bus normally I'll be alright I'll just do that I'll bottle it and that's what I did bottled it and stayed on the bus now stayed on it till it terminated in Halifax I've had to get off at this point so what were you saying to yourself at that moment when it's gone past your stop I think you're upset with yourself, angry, because you're taking the easy option.

19:59I've taken the easy option. There's two options. At that point, when I get to my bus stop outside Oslo Stadium, one is to get off the bus, meet the challenge, go train with the first team. I love that because what Jamie then went on to tell us is that he phoned his dad and his dad didn't shout at him, didn't berate him, just brought him home, was there for him and then gave him a week to consider whether he wanted to get off the bus again next time. And he did. And the rest of his career unfolded in the public eye and hit the heights that he achieved. But he described it himself. That was a sliding doors moment for him.

20:35He could be one of those guys that sits in the pub telling everyone that he was a great player, that he could have made it. He had trials at Bradford. But actually, that doesn't count for much unless you're prepared to get off the bus and back yourself. And aren't all of these clips so far a great reminder that often from the most difficult and challenging moments of our lives, what comes next can be really beautiful. Yeah, definitely. And that's a really good example of our next guest and what he offers us, which is when we sat down with Francis Ngannou. His story of growing up in Cameroon, working in the sand mines, and then choosing to eventually, after seven attempts, get over to Europe to pursue his dreams, He's a really good example of somebody that recognises the slide in those moments, but equally wants to give himself the credit for what he achieved.

21:26How much do you feel you owe somebody that took a chance on you when nobody else would? How do you think about him now? Well, it's easy. I think positive about him. um dj and i we were still in contact and then um again i'm grateful that i met him to with all the help that he has helped me we kept a good relationship and um i'm not disregarding everything that he has done to me or that every anybody have done to me but one thing that i always fight again which most of people will not accept is that it's not somebody that helped me or anybody that helped me will make me who i am because you if you're a stupid person they can help you as much as they want you won't do anything your life depends on you because and the reason why i always fight against that because most of people basically in africa when I grew up most of people think like if you have somebody that cannot help you you can be anything and I strongly disagree with that people can help you but the only person that will help you and decide on your life and change your life is you you know I think it's been an important episode of reflection this because it has hopefully reminded people listening to this that everyone has difficult dark troubling moments so if you're listening to this and you're in those moments.

23:01Know that you're not alone, right? I think the second thing that's really important is having people around you who can be really honest with you, but really honest with you in a, I've got your back. I'm going to support you. I'm going to catch you when you fall away, whether it's Matt's wife, whether it's Kieran's mom, whether it's Francis's contact, whether it's Jamie's dad, whether it's Steph's nurse, every single one of these moments when you look at it has come back to human connection. So it's a reminder to our audience, who's around you? what's your support network look like and i think the final clip there from francis is the perfect way to end because when you've had the difficult times and you know you've got the right people around you the truth is what the sliding doors moment looks like in 5 10 15 20 years time is down to your reaction to it and your ability to take control of your life and send it in a direction that you want it to go yeah i love that that's a really powerful way of summarizing that for all of us, this slide in those moments will come in where they'll have those dark times and again to repeat, it's not the fact, it's how you choose to react.

24:02Good man. Well, don't forget if you want to listen to any of those conversations with Matt or Kieran or Steph, Jamie or Francis, you can do so on the High Performance app and there is so much more incredible content waiting for you on there as well. You can also watch the episodes on YouTube. Have a good day. Thanks very much for listening and maybe take one thing you've learned from this episode and share it with someone that just might need it.

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