The Voice in Your Head Can Make or Break You

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1:52You know that voice in your head? Yes, that one, the one that's talking to you right now and pretty much talking to you 24-7. Imagine if that voice was your greatest cheerleader. After today's episode, it might just be. For most of us, that voice is untrained, unfiltered and often unkind. But when we've sat down with elite athletes, global leaders and inspirational thinkers on this podcast, we've noticed something. High performers don't just train their body, they train their brain. They get those voices working for them. They are self-talk experts. And today, we're going to draw out those learnings so you too can master that voice and therefore master your life.

2:31Because research, Damien, shows that this kind of stuff is an absolute game changer for people. And all too often, the voice in the world that we ignore the most, but impacts us the most, is that voice in our head. Yeah, you're right, Jake. It is. There's a really interesting piece of research from speed skaters in 1977, where when psychologists went and interviewed them and asked them what was going on in their head, they found that everybody had inner talk and inner dialogue. But what they found is the ones that tended to go and perform well under pressure were the ones that had mastered how they used, how they narrated and how they controlled their inner dialogue.

3:08It's not that they had less worries or anxieties or fears than their competitors. They'd just done exactly what we're going to explore, which is how you learn to control it and harness it to become your best friend. Well, let's explore then. And we're going to start with a true champion, an Olympic champion. This is what Denise Lewis told us about changing the voice in her head. Astrid, good old Astrid. Yeah, we talk about visualisation, right? And we talk about, you know, how do you change a negative experience into a positive? And that power of almost becoming the embodiment of what you want to be is a really strong thing.

3:51And so I did this in the Sydney Olympics when I'd had a crappy event, you know, in the high jump. And, you know, that could have really cost me the gold medal at that point, even though it was the second event. and I remember going back to my room you know kicking myself and you know just having that moment of calm again and getting ready for the shot put which is the third event of the heptathlon and for some reason I just thought I know I need a good event so I need to be bigger stronger bolder fearless in this next event which was going to be the shot put and I thought of Astrid Cumbinus, who was the world champion at that time.

4:32And I just thought, yeah, you are Astrid. You're going to be Astrid. You're going to be strong and powerful like Astrid. And I scraped my hair back. That's my power hair, you know, gel back, strong, ready to get it. I remember my coach was going to come and knock my door at 4pm because we had to take the bus down to the stadium. and I remember him knocking the door and I opened it with such vigour and he was like, okay. And I'm like, you think you see Denise Lewis here, but I'm Astrid Cumberness. And he burst out laughing because he knew what that meant. So I love the fact that Denise, she didn't just change her outfit, she changed her inner dialogue.

5:20This is what psychologists call distant self-talk. It's pioneered by one incredible psychologist called Ethan Cross, who said that when you learn to speak to yourself like you would do with a teammate or a friend, you instantly become more receptive. There was a study that was done at Michigan State University that used brain scans to show how this shift happens, where you go from feeling, why am I so nervous, to why is Damien feeling nervous? It instantly reduces the emotional stress that you're going through. without draining your mental energy. So if someone's listening to this and they're thinking, yeah, but that's just words and I know I can listen to it now, but in half an hour's time when something goes wrong, I'll start criticising myself again.

6:02Like, what's the first thing? Now that we've told people Denise has done it and psychological research tells you that this has a massive impact, what's the sort of first thing you'd like people to do, Damien, from here to try and start making a difference? Instantly just that, being aware of that voice in your head. Because often it almost goes without us recognising that we are talking to ourselves. You know, like when you opened this, Jake, and you said, you know that voice in your head? Yeah, that one. That's exactly it. I think if we start becoming aware of it, then we can start understanding how it is speaking to us.

6:36I've heard coaches, I know a tennis coach that does this as an exercise where he gets people to imagine that they're talking to a doubles partner and say, just say out loud what it is that's going on in your head. And then when people go, oh, you idiot, you're stupid, how could you miss that? He said, would you speak to your doubles partner in the same way? And the answer is always inevitable, of course I wouldn't. So once we can start becoming aware of it, then we can start listening to it and then just making those subtle tweaks. Brilliant. So the first bit of advice today is turn your brain from a critic into a coach.

7:11But I suppose it also really helps us to understand why our brain is a critic rather than a coach naturally. And that's a very important place for us to take you now in this conversation because it's easy to say well I'm just I'm stupid because I talk badly to myself I don't understand the difference or I'm just a negative person that's not the truth okay the truth is that all of us have this voice in our heads it's what kept us alive for centuries but it's also one that if it overtakes our thoughts can derail us so it's not about ignoring the voice it's about understanding it it's about understanding what Steve Peters calls the chimp.

7:45And here he is, Professor Steve Peters on high performance. I did a charity conference a long time ago, and I tried to get this concept over. And I live out in the wilds, and there were a lot of apple trees and fallen apples. So I took a lot of apples in and asked them to juggle just to stop doing heavy academic work. And I could see the puzzle look, there's a reason. And everyone could do two apples. Most people couldn't do three. Nobody manage four. Now I know they're probably the juggler, which they exist. And I said, that's how your mind works. Never forget. Once you've got more than two problems, you're not going to make it.

8:19Your mind's going to start stressing and going round and round. Now there will be exceptions to the rule, but my experience has been once we put things down and they say, right, there's six things we're going to address, there's a sense of relief because now we have a plan, which is what the brain is looking for. Now that analogy Steve gave us around juggling the apples is really important because if we're not able to sort of articulate some of our self-talk, it just goes round and round in our head until we eventually start to pay attention. The chimp will focus in on the reasons why you're not paying attention and your chimp is irrational.

8:57It's that primal, primitive voice that is prone to panicking. So what Steve's advocating there, and again, it's another simple tip for anyone listening to this thinking how can I do this instead of trying to silence it and going I shouldn't be having these thoughts what he's suggesting is we need to learn to articulate it put it out there whether we speak to somebody or we write it down but we get it out of our heads into something that once it's on a piece of paper or it's out there spoken to a colleague then we can start to rationalize it and allow our human voice to be able to deal with whatever it is that's causing us that stress.

9:35And look, Damien, you and I have worked together for five years. You know me well enough now to know that I am on the whole positive. I try and be the light in the room wherever I can, but also I'm a proper catastrophizer. And this has been so valuable for me to hear these conversations over the years, because I used to sort of think, what is wrong with me? Why do I go from zero to a hundred? You know, if, I mean, the other day is a good example, right? A friend rang me and he was leaving me a voice note and I thought that it was going to be about something that it wasn't. And while I thought it was about this thing that was really worrying me.

10:04Honestly, my heart must have been doing 200 beats a second. My palms have gone sweaty. And then he said, and the reason why I'm messaging is because of blah, blah, blah, and everything then calmed down. And I know that I'm like that, right? So now there's two things really that I've learned. The first one is to accept that sometimes this is just going to happen. Rather than fighting it, just accepting, I know I'm a catastrophizer. I know that's where my brain's going. So I just have to know that for the next few seconds, this is how I'm going to feel. but also as Steve Peters explained there this idea of the chip this primal voice I also have to realise that that catastrophising is the thing that kept my ancestors alive right so my ancestors the blood that is in my body now has come from people hundreds and thousands and tens of thousands of years ago and they did have to have a catastrophising voice to stay alive right and so it's just that it's just there it's in me but it's not all of me yeah yeah that's exactly it Jake and I think this ability just to recognize it and then be able to articulate it rather than like Steve says trying to juggle it in your head and keep it in there and assume that it's a sign of my weakness it's not it's a sign that it's a sign that you're entirely normal where all of us can start to get better yourself included is this idea of just getting it out there on the table and therefore allowing our human brain to dissect it in the more considered way leading on from that Jake that's why One of my favourite interviews that we've done has been with Dr Pippa Grange, the brilliant psychologist that worked with Gareth Southgate and the England football team in the 2018 World Cup where the team got to the semi-finals.

11:39Pippa works on a really simple but quite profound idea, which is you need to see, face and replace the fears that can occupy our mind. Let's listen to her explain it in a little bit more detail. first see it first notice i'm like oh i've still got some shame about expressing myself in different ways okay what does that cost me where don't i raise my voice that i might like to you know it's just a metaphor to share with you but that that you know what does it where does it really show up you know so i'm confident coming on to this medium with you talking in this way but if we were on TV and there were lots of people looking at me, I would feel less confident.

12:25I would have more potential for not good enough. Show up, oh, I can see it. So first notice where it actually is for you and what's the story under that. And then start thinking about what does it cost you? Because in your brilliant human potential, your expansive possibilities of who you are, this will get in the way. And we talk about performance as if it's this kind of narrow channel to good that looks a particular way. It's so expansive. It's so massive. The human brilliance is so massive. And then once you've done that, and only then you start thinking about how will I replace that? And the things I talk about with replacing, as you would have read in the book, are around a sense of purpose and meaning.

13:17And most, probably the most powerful part of that is relationships and real connection, community, like the kind of relationships and quality that you have that allow you to turn down fear. And, you know, there's science behind this as well, Damien. In 2021, there was a study using brain scans where researchers found that self-criticism activated the brain's monitoring system. So it made people more cautious and more attentive. But I think here's the key from my perspective. if it wasn't balanced with encouragement it reduced confidence and it made people overthink and i have absolutely been responsible for derailing my own brain over the years and i actually rely often on that brené brown advice you know as soon as something negative comes in your brain just replace it with some positive stuff and i think that this is so valuable because we can't sit here right as two hosts of high performance and say to our audience from now on don't be negative don't have negative self-talk don't have fear don't have catastrophization Don't have self-doubt.

14:16It's nonsense because that's part of being a human being, right? And actually, I think being a little bit critical can sharpen you up, right? I think it's good. It's like, why am I feeling really piqued in this moment? Because I want to do well. But equally, too much can break you. So we know that the balance is key. So I would advise anyone to take on the Brene Brown exercise that I do, which is as soon as my brain goes, oh, you were rubbish today, just reply. She said five. I say three because sometimes I struggle to think of five. but I give it three reasons why today was a good day, or that was a good moment, or three reasons to be positive.

14:52So let's say when me and you have done a talk to a business and we walk off stage, my brain goes, well, how did you mess up the intro to that clip? Or why didn't you quite capture the audience? I will then go, right, okay. First of all, I've stood on the stage and done the best I can, right? Secondly, I was asked to be there. Thirdly, the only reason I was asked to be there is because of the movement we've created with high performance. So all right, today wasn't perfect but look at those three great things and move on and you can discount self-talk because it feels like it isn't valuable or important or impactful enough but i remember aldo kane coming on the show explaining to us how he talked himself through dangerous situations as a member of the special forces i mean actually should we hear him quickly yeah go on so i'm like i'll be doing something let's say it's on a big wall and i'm i'm doing something and there's rocks falling and i'm like it's just a weird like it's a tick literally and then I'll be like I'm scared I talk to myself and then I deal with the facts why am I scared is there a reason is it based on something that's happened before that isn't in this situation if that's the case then I can park that and deal with the current situation is it something that is dangerous in this moment that requires me to take action.

16:08More often than not at that point, yes, that's acute rockfall avalanche, someone holding a gun at your head. I need to take acute action now. If I have all the facts, I can be analytical about it. If not, then I can be intuitive about it, as in I get a feeling and I'll act on that until I have enough information to then change the course of where I'm going. So to basically not be driven by fear is about, for me, is about diving into the reality of it. What are the facts? What are my options? And then getting from all of that to making a decision about the thing because indecision in my line of work or deliberation will get you or someone killed.

16:57So you have to take all this information in, process it, deal with it, work out if it's relevant then make a decision and then go and actually if you transfer that into normal life that deliberation and sort of dilly-dallying and denial phase in any situation a relationship breakup um a job taking the job not taking the job creates so much disquiet in in you personally inside in your head in your in almost everything that you do. And so just by making the decision, for me, taking the facts, making the decision straight away, kind of gets rid of the fear because you're then into the known, you've taken that first step.

17:44More often than not, people that I work with are scared about the things they've heard about but not been through. Now, what Aldo's describing there is what psychologists call process focus self-talk now it does work there's there was one big meta-analysis done a couple of years ago that found that athletes who focus on the how that's like the technique your breathing your rhythm all things that you have within your control tended to perform a lot more consistently and demonstrate greater confidence than those who just fixated on outcomes like i want to win or i I want to break a record. The point that Aldo's talking about there is, it's a combination of everything that we've covered so far, Jake.

18:30Learning to talk to yourself kindly, being able to get those fears out of your head and be able to articulate them, and then focus on the small steps that you have within your control. It's almost like a masterclass in how any of us, if we're facing a bit of a challenge, can be able to use our self-talk as our best friend rather than our worst critic. And in a moment, we're going to open up this episode to some questions from you. And by the way, if you have got any questions that you want to ask myself or Damien, if you want to share your thoughts about an episode of High Performance, or maybe there's a topic that you want us to cover in one of these Friday conversations, this show is for you, okay?

19:09You're our community and we want to be here for you. So just ping us a message. You can find us on LinkedIn. You can find us on Instagram. You can get in touch with us and we would love to make this show exactly what you want it to be. so do get in touch but before we go to your questions I want to play one last clip Damien if you don't mind do you remember very very early on I think this was probably second or third episode we ever recorded of High Performance when we met up with Tom Daley in the days when it was just you and me and a couple of microphones yeah? Oh yeah yeah I do remember that he came into the offices didn't he at YMU and took a chance on us because we hadn't even done anything around High Performance at that stage so yeah fair play to Tom I remember messaging him saying hi Tom I was working on news around when you won young sports personality of the year can you come on my podcast he was kind enough to say yes but anyway um i would love you to hear what he said about the advice from his dad my dad was unlike a lot of the parents um of sporting people he was didn't pretend or even try to know anything technical about diving he didn't pretend or try to say things that i needed to improve on or work on he didn't pretend to try and adjust what i ate or adjust how much i slept he let me figure it out and he was just there for me whether it was uh a a good training session or a bad if i had a bad training session he knew that we would just drive and go and get ice cream like he wouldn't even have to say anything he just knew what would make me feel better you had your wednesday night curry ritual yeah exactly wednesday night when my grandma would come to watch training and we'd go and get an Indian after training and even just things like the way that my dad used to make me feel about competition I remember that first competition where I was diving for the first time in a senior competition at 10 years old the senior national championships I remember we got the list of how many people were going to be in it and there was 18 divers and I said to my dad I'm so nervous like what if I do badly what if I don't dive as well as I do in training you know it's the first time I'm going to dive at a senior event and he just said to me Tom there's 18 divers in this competition if you come last you are going to be 18th best in the whole country like how cool is that and when he said that to me I was like you're right 18th best in the country that's pretty darn good and so going into that competition I remember thinking oh don't worry because even if I come 18th I'm still 18th best in the country so that the way that he used to say things to me just took all the pressure off like i knew whether i did well or i did badly that it wasn't he would have just treated it exactly the same what a message damien no hype just clarity and well we've spoken about it before psychological safety he made his son feel safe by completely changing the narrative around that competition What Tom articulates brilliantly there is just a really simple tool called reframing.

22:13So what we know is that when people reframe anxiety into something useful, they tend to do better even when they're under pressure. So they might look at this and go, you know what, this is a really hard session. But, you know, I've heard coaches say you're putting the miles in your legs or think of it like money in the bank, you're investing in your own fitness. So you're taking something that in the moment feels really hard and difficult and reframing it as it's an investment in your own health or your well-being. Really simple techniques like what Tom's dad did, you know. I remember Tom telling us, I remember the change in his breathing.

22:48I think even his eyes lit up as he remembered just the impact that his dad's simple words had had on him. And also, I think it's important for us to mention at this point, visualisation and also operating with real intentionality. I mean, we've had so many conversations with people who've spoken to us about being intentional. in what you do. And it all comes from visualization. So before you take on a big task, right, and maybe you're listening to this now and you've got a big meeting today, maybe you're performing at something, maybe you've got to make a big decision at work, maybe you've got to have a one-to-one with someone where you don't think that you're going to like the news that they're sharing with you.

23:23It's so helpful just to visualize in your head, not just how things are going to go, but the outcome that you want from that. And I think sometimes we're really dismissive of visualization and we think well it's just going to be how it's going to be but trust me the biggest and most impressive sports teams and groups in the world do this as a regular thing but they do it with intentionality so they sit there and they don't just kind of just like casually imagine what it's going to be like they truly see the thing that they're going to do the thing that they're going to go through how it's going to feel what's going to happen next it's like it's basically like practice for free right Damien and the research says that it's really important Yeah, it is.

23:59I mean, again, if anyone's interested in this, go and listen to the chat we had with Rob O 'Neill, one of the Delta SEAL teams that spoke about how when they went on big operations, they'd spend weeks just rehearsing, both physically and mentally, what it was they were going to do and how they could execute it as seamlessly as possible. It is like free practicing. I just want to share one of my favorite bits of research on this. And it came from, I think it was a Cardiff University study with a group of cyclists where they got people doing a ride but blocked them being able to listen to their inner voice by asking them to repeat a load of meaningless nonsense out loud.

24:37So it almost stopped them being able to process their own thoughts. The result was fascinating because what they found is the cyclists went a lot slower, but they gave up. an awful lot earlier. And part of that was because they couldn't coach themselves. They couldn't talk to themselves when moments got tough and urge themselves and negotiate their way through it. So you start to see that this voice in our head can be our absolute biggest ally if we're just willing to use a few of these simple techniques that we've spoken about that we've learned from our incredible guests and just apply them to your own life.

25:14So if you need to listen back to this conversation from the beginning, grab a pen and paper and just write down four or five things that maybe you're going to do from this conversation. And then I would love it actually if in a couple of weeks you just got in touch with us, pinged us a message and told us whether this was a valuable episode for you and what it's changed for you. Right, let's get to some questions from some of our audience, Damien. We've got one here from Lucy saying, how do I stop my inner voice from spiralling late at night? Oh, that's a cracker, isn't it? Dr. John Gottman's really good on this when he talks about how do we disagree agreeably.

25:48So he talks about relationship counselling, but one of the things he's noticed is that couples that seem to get over arguments a lot faster control three things. One of them is the environment. So if you know that it's late at night, don't have that argument. The other one is control the boundaries of what you're willing to talk about. And the third one is you control yourself. Now, the reason I mentioned that stuff is because I think that's just as appropriate to this message here about how do we stop the inner voice but from spiraling late at night so some of it is recognize that if it's going to happen late at night you need to almost literally name it you have to be able to write write it down or have a conversation with somebody that says i'm noticing that i'm having a thought about whatever it is that's going on in your head so again this idea of being able to externalize it like steve peter's told us gets it out of your head and onto the page and that then allows you to have some degree of control and influence and allows you to disagree with yourself but do it in an agreeable way listen this is a real problem for me damien as you know i'm a 2 30 a.m wake up and almost always is negative fearful thoughts who was the guest you know that came on was it rahul jandil that spoke to us about how your brain operates differently at night time yes yes yeah rahul spoke about that idea of what happens around half past two three o 'clock in the morning is the melatonin that's the chemical that sort of makes you feel drowsy and sleepy starts to dissipate into the system and instead cortisol starts to rise now cortisol is like a stress hormone that starts to make you more alert and more awake and that's what then starts to increase so you're in that sweet spot between having a nightmare where your brain can sort of go down the route of catastrophizing and being slightly aware of it so therefore it starts to become more vivid and real i mean this is what we know from our ancestors we look at any of the sort of evolutionary psychology work tells us that you had to be hyper vigilant in the middle of the night because that was where you were most vulnerable so this is again a sign that you're actually functioning normally it's not a weakness it's just your system doing exactly what it was built and intended to do.

28:06And you know what's really helped me, which might be helpful for you, Lucy, and anyone else listening to this, is I know that the world seems a scary place at night, right? I know that my ancestors, you know, had to be hypervigilant at nighttime, therefore there's a strong chance that that still exists somewhere in me. So therefore I go, well, I'm going to wake up at half two, the world is going to feel scary and worrisome, and then everything's going to be fine. I remember actually, Damien, I bought a house with a big garden, right? And I didn't, it was fine, except at half two in the morning I woke up every single night going I can't deal with a garden that big when am I going to mow it when am I going to look at like it's stupid but it was like it really kept me awake look thank you very much and now one of your biggest calming techniques is doing mow there you go going in the garden it's the thing that chills me out the most isn't that amazing great question and we've got also one here from Steve who basically says does everyone have an inner voice and are they all the same I would just reply with this Steve that I read something a while ago that actually, and this is interesting for the high performance audience, if people have more developed verbal and communication skills, right, they're more likely to have a louder inner voice than someone with less language development.

29:15So it's not about confidence, whether you have an active inner voice or not. It's not about intelligence. It's actually more associated with your life skills, with your verbal skills, with the amount of effort that you've put into being able to communicate. And therefore you've taught your brain to communicate. And that's exactly what it's doing. So I hope that maybe makes some people feel a bit better about it, Damo. Yeah, definitely. And I think that, again, how do you twist this to be something that's a little bit more positive? Edward de Bono, he was like the creativity guru. He talks about the thinking hats, that having different perspectives, being a cynic, being a dreamer, being a pragmatist, were all different positions and perspectives that we're able to take.

29:57So again, in your waking hours, if you want to just see and help your inner voice see things from slightly different perspectives, have a look at the Bono's work and it can actually be, again, a real great ally to you to get you out of your head and to see the world from somebody else's eyes. I love it. Love it. Thank you so much, Damien. And I really hope that that helps you. And will the show notes for this be available anyway, Damien? So yes, Jake, the research will be included in the show notes. So if anyone wants to go and explore these topics at their own leisure, at their own depth, you can find them there.

30:31Brilliant. And you can also find the links to the episodes that we've mentioned during this conversation. I hope it's helpful for you. Check out the show notes. Keep on listening to High Performance. And listen, if there's someone in your life who you think they've got a strong inner voice, you think they're being derailed by what's going on in there, just ping them this episode, please. Let them hear this. And hopefully it will help them. Thanks again for listening to High Performance. please do hit follow wherever you listen to this show. And myself, Damien, and the whole team are very grateful.

30:58And we'll see you soon.

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