Why Is Change So Hard—And How Can You Make It Stick?

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1:50Hi there, you're listening to High Performance and one of our regular, shorter weekly episodes where we try and give you as much value packed into a short sharp episode as possible and Damien we've picked this week a topic that we know so many of our listeners struggle with I don't know whether you do I know that I certainly do in fact it's such a big deal we wrote an entire book on it and it is change why do we struggle with change there's an author called Alan Deutschman talks about bad change can be characterized by the three f's of using fear force or facts so think about this how many steps should you be taking a day uh 10 000 how much how many items of fruit and veg five how much water should you be consuming i don't know three five glasses right do you do all of that no right so the facts aren't the problem it's translating it into action telling people to do things forcing them doesn't work or that it's short-term compliance and then frightening people of telling you you know if you don't do this you're going to die actually gets short-term energy, but not long-term sustainable change.

2:50So understanding, how do you change your career? How do you change the trajectory of your life? How do you change your circumstances? Well, that requires good change, and that's what we want to explore today. So look, you've already explained then that it's not the fact that gets us to change, it's something else, right? So before we hear from some of the brilliant guests that have joined us on High Performance, what is the first message you want people to understand about long-term, sustainable, life-altering change? Well, what we've seen is that all change follows a pattern. And every one of our guests that we've had on High Performance that talks to us, this pattern's there almost like the drumbeat in the background of what they do.

3:29So they start by having the dream of a possibility of things could be better than what they currently are. And then what we realise is we then identified the second stage, which is they do something different than what they were doing yesterday to make it happen. Then you get to the fight stage. We've not had a guest yet that hasn't spoken about the difficulties, the setbacks, the pitfalls that they've had to find their way through. So what we wanted to do is look at some of those techniques that our guests have given us to help anybody be able to avoid those pitfalls and get through it faster.

3:59So then we get to the climb stage, and this is where Matthew McConaughey described to us, the green lights start happening, momentum starts working for you in your favour. Once you get beyond that, you arrive, where you get to where you wanted to, you stop, you celebrate, you reward yourself, and then you decide what you're going to do next. So how about this for a plan then? Five stages, dream, leap, fight, climb, arrive. Let's pick five guests that are really vital and valuable for our audience when it comes to each stage. So why don't you start choosing a guest who can help us to dream? Well, let's start then by talking about Susie Ma, you know, the founder of the Tropic skincare brand, runner up on The Apprentice, and just an all-round dynamo who came and spoke to us about how she went from the market stalls of Greenwich through to heading up a 330 million pound business in just 10 years.

4:49At Tropic, we have something that I call an infinite purpose. And this is actually inspired by Simon Sinek. I had the pleasure of going on a challenge with him about four years back. And he spoke about having a purpose in life. And a purpose is very different to a passion because you can be passionate about so many things, but a purpose is what guides your passions and is what guides all the decisions that you make. And he spoke about an infinite one, which is something that isn't achievable because it carries on. And on the back of that conversation with Simon, I came back and I decided to create an infinite purpose for everything that I do in life.

5:31I'm so pleased we started here because lots of people listening to this will be constantly told find your passion, find your passion, find your passion. No one knows how to find their passion. And if they don't have a passion, they feel completely derailed and like they're missing out on this amazing life that other people have found their passion are enjoying. So how do we talk about this in a really healthy way? Well, we don't focus on passion, we focus on purpose. And as Susie just brilliantly explained, infinite purpose. And look, you and I, we've done this job for five years, right? You know, the one moment that's changed so much for me is that very line from Susie Ma.

6:01And I want people to understand that at this point, like I've done 300 plus episodes alongside you. That clip from her talking about infinite purpose changed the way I see everything because I definitely used to slip into this mindset of I'm going to get a six pack or I'm going to earn a certain salary or I'm going to have a certain number of holidays or high performance is going to get X number of listeners or downloads, right? And then I had this realization when Susie was talking that setting those specific targets is never healthy because you either reach the target and you lose your motivation because you got there and you think, well, why didn't I set a greater target?

6:35What do I do now? Or you don't reach the target. And not only do you feel a lack of motivation because you didn't get there, but your self-worth gets knocked because you didn't manage it. So you remember when I first met you, I said, once we get to 100 ,000 downloads, then we can rest and be happy. Well, we've now a quarter of a billion. Now, what a silly thing to set that number. I think it relates to so much in life that if we're going to look for change, setting specific targets doesn't help us because we either make it and we lose focus or we don't make it and we lose self-worth and focus.

7:09But more importantly than that, once we're thinking about the journey and the process and the small daily actions that are going to get me closer, then it keeps us going for longer. So as you know now, the infinite purpose for high performance is reach more people every day to get them closer to their own version of high performance. There's always more people and we can always get closer. So really, when it comes to making change, the first thing I'd love people listening to this to do is to think, what is my infinite purpose at work, in my marriage, in my relationships, as a parent, as a friend, in the gym, financially?

7:43Like, think of your infinite purpose and I believe it will start to drive change. Well, it definitely will. And one of the things we've tried to include in our book, How to Change Your Life, is the questions that we can ask ourselves to be able to find that infinite purpose. They relate to things like, what are your strengths? What do you love doing? How can you make a difference to the lives of others? And then finally, how can I use this to generate income and get paid for doing it? And by answering those questions, we can all find our infinite purpose that gives us that dream and that energy that allows us to be able to plot, how am I going to get there?

8:18And that leads us to the second stage. Which is the leap stage. Now, before we go on, you might want to just hit rewind a little bit on the app, listen again to the last minute and grab a pen and paper and just make notes. I think that's quite important, right, when you're trying to take on all this information. And apologies if you're driving the car or something, but you can always listen again later. Right, the leap stage. Can I play an episode from Alex Scott? Go on. This is what the broadcaster Alex Scott told us about her life when she was a professional footballer at Arsenal. And I think it's really interesting when it comes to the second stage of taking a leap.

8:52You're making me smile thinking about the laundry days. Because once again, it's hard, it's easy to go to the negative situation in that. Like I'm in a laundry, I'm scrubbing dirty pants. Like when Arsenal had played the night before, you know, it's been a rainy, muddy day. And there's me on a Monday trying to get the mud out of their shorts and everything. Actually, that environment allowed me to learn so much. You know, I got an amazing lunch every day, which was like the best lunch ever. But yeah, I was in a football environment. I was having conversations with Arsene Wenger, players coming in after training and I'm having conversations with a Thierry Henry about football.

9:30So that's where my mindset goes that you can think about, oh, I'm just locked away in this room. And it's like, why am I doing this? But actually, I'm learning so much. And actually, the little money that I did get paid by doing that allowed me to buy my first house when I was 21. on. So I think when a lot of people think about taking a leap, they think about themselves, like how am I going to change what I do and how I do it. But what Alex is talking about there is the importance of where you take a leap to. Absolutely. So think of it in this way, that we often talk about taking the leap depends on who we are, but where we are as well.

10:06And the where we are bit is a really important part that any of us can think about. There's a famous set studies called the Framinghouse studies, Jake, that says that that motivational line of you are the sum of the people you hang around with most. The Framinghouse studies basically validates it. It suggests that if you hang around with people that are significantly overweight, your likelihood of gaining weight increases by 57%. Hang around with people that drink more than the national average, your likelihood increases by 51%. So the purpose of it says that any social behavior is often guided and shaped by the people that we spend our time with so if you go back and listen to alex's interview and we talk about this in the book how to change your life it's very much around she took the leap of putting herself in the laundry room maybe something like an unprepossessing role as she describes but she's around arson wenger she's around tiere henry she's around winners and she's soaking up all that information the habits she gets to pick their brains that she can then incorporate not only in her own football career but then in a broadcasting career as well there's a great quote by tony robbins he says who you spend time with is who you become change your life by consciously choosing to surround yourself with people with higher standards than you i think it's so powerful can i just say i also think that comes at a cost because i've spent my life actually like when I was on kids telly, I spent my time with more successful kids presenters.

11:34I was on the CBBC channel, they were on BBC One. When I was a sports broadcaster, right in the early days, I was surrounded by, you know, Gary Lineker and Gabby Logan and Sue Barker, who were all far better than me. They were far wealthier than me. They were far more experienced. When I moved into football, I was surrounded by a load of former Premier League footballers rocking up to work in their Lamborghinis or going on expensive holidays. So I always had this sort of like slight feeling that I was taking a leap to surround myself with people who were, let's say, a few rungs further up the ladder than me.

12:05And it does at times alter your perception of where you are. And I used to say to Harriet, I feel like I'm not where they are. And she was great. And I used to say to Harriet, my wife, I wish I was where they are. And she would kind of be brilliant at reminding me, but you're where you are. Stop comparing yourself. And I think when we take that leap, we also have to have in the back of our minds that if you are surrounding yourself with people that are where you want to be, don't compare yourself. Yeah, definitely. I think that leads us neatly into the next stage of the change journey that we've described in the book, which is around the fight stage.

12:40This is the bit where you get too far in on your journey that you can't go back now because you've seen too much, but you're not far enough to feel that the end is in sight. So this is where your morale declines, your patience wears, saying, I need to be there yesterday. Which is exactly what I was just describing, isn't it? Yeah, very much. It's referred to as Cantor's Law after a Harvard sociologist called Rosbeth Moss Cantor that suggests that everything looks like a failure in the middle. We all experience it and this is what we write about, the fight stage and what it looks like. Understanding how we can almost navigate our way through it becomes really key.

13:15And a really good example of this was when we spoke to Nims Perger, the Nepalese special forces soldier that scaled the 14 highest mountain peaks in the world in a record six months. he described to us a really powerful story of when he was coming down from Everest on his way to setting the world record when he discovered something that could have cost him his life let's listen to him recount the story but more importantly how he chose to respond to it I was still in his special forces and I was trying to break the world record for climbing in Everest Lodz and Makalu which is the first fourth and fifth highest mountain and in process of doing that when I went to Lhotse, my oxygen was stolen.

14:00So just to give you an example, being oxygen stolen at camp or at the death zone is a crime. You work so hard. You have to take the weather forecast. You have to take those oxygen to put it over there. It's a mission. And literally when you went over there and your oxygen is not there, it's going to drown you. But what I thought was, okay, come on, come on. There must be something. And what I said was, okay, my oxygen was probably used for some emergency situation. Maybe someone is alive because it was, you know, somebody used it for rescue. That could be completely lie. But then I told my brain to believe in that positive thing.

14:38And I was happy. Okay, you know, somebody is alive maybe. But then sometimes you have to do it all. It's all about, you know, how you cope with the situation. It's about, you know, like nothing is impossible. You just have to think outside the box. I think what Nims is giving us there is an example of how we can overcome the fight because I can totally understand what people are thinking well okay I'm in the fight stage I've got no idea how to deal with the fight stage and I think the answer lies in separating fault from responsibility it's not Nims' fault that his oxygen was stolen but it remained his responsibility to deal with that mental and move forwards if you're listening to this and you have trauma from your childhood that might be holding you back it's not your fault but the hard truth is it remains your responsibility to find a way through.

15:25COVID's probably the greatest example. It was none of our fault, but it was all our responsibility to find a way through. And I think where we can separate fault from responsibility is an extremely powerful tool when we're in the fight stage. We were joined, weren't we, by Mo Gaudat, the happiness expert, who said to us, your reaction to the thing that happens is far more important than the thing that happens. So what was it he told us about how you react to something difficult? Because I know this had an impact on you, didn't it? Yeah, he said that physiologically, when something annoying happens, your body alters its chemical balance for 90 seconds.

15:55So anything more than 90 seconds spent worrying about a lost wallet, a stubbed toe, a row with your partner, an argument with your kids, a difficult person at work, is you choosing to revisit those negative emotions. So I think when we're in the fight stage, we need to remember that we have the autonomy over how we feel. It's not the fact, it's how you react. And I feel that once you deal with that, then you're well equipped for moving on to the climb stage, which is the perfect time to hear from American author, podcaster, and behavioral expert, Mel Robbins. There's another reason why, and this is big with high performers.

16:33It's because you believe that it's only when you're achieving something that's worthy of celebration that you deserve it. That until you have the money in the bank, until you have the number on the scale, until you're married to the right person or living in the right neighborhood or driving that Range Rover or whatever the fuck it is that you think that you need or your hair's not kinky or this, that, or the other thing, that until you have that thing, you haven't done anything worthy of a high five. So why would you on a random day, raise your hand in celebration, given the fact that you're not where you think you should be?

17:09That's what the resistance is. That's what your cynicism is. And it's become a habit. And here's the sad ass part about all this. If you think about the London Marathon, right, even you cynical Brits, do you stand on the side with your arms crossed at mile eight and go, hey, fucking asshole. I'm not I'm not cheering for you. I saw how slow you were on the last split. When you cross the finish line, I'll give you a little polite clap off. That's not what you do. You know, you like high five. So the brilliant thing there that Mel offers us is this idea of momentum working for us. But to do that, we need to rewire our thinking and work out where we're winning rather than where we're losing.

17:55I mean, let me ask you, Jake, what do you think about more, your wins or your losses? Absolutely my losses, yeah. Right, and that's natural because the part of your brain that focuses on the threat, the problem, the issue, has kept you alive for millennia. so therefore we're that negativity bias is designed to focus purely on threats and yet we can overcome it the neuroplasticity of the brain allows us to be able to change our direction our focus the way that we see the world so focusing more on what we're doing well what we're proud of where things are happening for us that we really want more of in our life the more we focus on that the more we get into this climb stage and use momentum to propel us forward and if we've learned one thing from high performance, it's the optimists are high performers.

18:41It's the optimists get more chances to bat. They keep on coming back for more. Being an optimist makes you resilient. And we know that resilience beats talent so often. So if people are listening to this, and you make such a great point, Damien, if they go, well, I'm a negative person, you're not a negative person. You're a person who's learned to think negatively, because there is a negativity bias of the human mind. And I think it's so powerful what you tell people, you can rewire the brain you can be a positive person if you change the way that you think and you genuinely believe that that optimism that positive mindset helps you in the climb stage absolutely there's research on this that was done with rugby players that when they watch a review of a performance back if the coach chooses to focus on their deficiencies the flaws and mistakes that they've made what they realize is that the energy in the room gets diminished so your ability to focus on what you're good at becomes even harder whereas they found that with coaches that accentuate the positives they mean that people will lean into it and they will identify where they can get better themselves so their willingness to focus on improvement is enhanced by being willing to focus first of all on where we're winning and this takes us to the final stage that we write about in the book the arrival now i have a question about the arrival stage and i'm sure people listen to this do as well.

19:59We started the conversation talking about infinite purpose. There's no arrival. There's no moment. You haven't set a specific target. Yet we're now talking about the arrival stage. So how does that work? So this isn't about thinking that this is the end of the journey, but this is just the end of that part of the journey. So the ability to build in a stage where we can reflect on what we've learned, to look back over it, to take the lessons that we've acquired during that period is a really important bit and that's what the arrival stage allows us to do it's a reminder i guess that you only know how far you've gone by stopping and looking backwards absolutely feeling proud of yourself but also realizing you haven't reached the end of the journey well time for the final clip then of this episode yeah this is probably one of the most powerful and profound change stories that we've had on the podcast and that we feature in the book the interview with the former elite armed robber turned elite triathlete he was a high performance armed robber at one point in his life the brilliant john mcavoy and this is his answer to the question we asked him of if you could go back to one moment of your life what would it be and why so one of my most vivid memories in my whole life is the last time i was my mate had died um we were sorry we were um we were in this car and we were in spain and i remember the sun was coming up it was 5 5 30 in the morning and we had the roof down and i remember we had this head candy song on and it was the last time i ever saw him alive and then i left and come back and then that was he died and stuff and that yeah that that that was sorry i didn't think i'd be like that um yeah that was that was one of my one of my happiest memories because it was the last time I was ever with him.

21:41And it's obvious from your emotions how much he meant to you and things there is something lovely about this story in that someone you cared for so much look at the difference to your life his death made. Mate I said it when when it happened I'm not religious I was when I was younger and then I lost my faith years later and I remember when I found out he died the chaplaincy come and saw me because of my surname the Roman Catholic like they they they they come and he come i used to be quite dismissive of him in prison i never used to really engage didn't go to church or anything like that and he comes to my cell and he um he sat down on the bed and again i he started saying about would you when he's having his funeral would you like to come down to the chaplaincy and we say a prayer for him and i said no again that i didn't engage and he went to me and i said to him um about how unfair life is i said because because my friend did a bad thing but he was a good person and i said he's lost his life at 26 years old and i'll never forget this he said to me you was blessed that you had him in your life and and you had that interaction with him whilst he was alive and then everything I've gone on to do with my life and I remember I wrote a letter to his mum said everything whatever I do in my life it will be because your son because without your son I wouldn't be who I am today and he is not going to be that kid that died in that field in the Netherlands after committing a bank robbery his life will have more meaning to that.

23:03So that's a really powerful example of how the arrival stage allows us to look back on our life, to make sense of it, to be able to take the lessons for the next stage of our journey. And I think the fact that John got emotional when talking about that is a reminder actually of the power of doing that. We can't just keep on looking forwards because if we do, we have no idea of the journey we've been on. And I'm sure for many of you, if not all of you listening to this, once you stop and look back, you will realize how proud you should be. So there you go. Five steps to change. Dream, to leap, to fight, to climb, and finally, to arrive.

23:39But of course, as we've explained, there is no real arrival. And if you'd like to know more about these five stages, if you would like to get your hands on a book that guides you through the steps to make change a genuine part of your life, and let me remind you that the 300 plus episodes of High Performance we've recorded, a high performance ability to change is something that we've seen time and time again. then all you need to do to get hold of our book, How to Change Your Life, is go to the link in the description to this podcast. Thanks a lot, mate. I enjoyed going back through the archive to be able to spot this pattern that we've spoke about because what we wanted when we started this podcast was to give people the tools of how they can incorporate high performance in their own lives.

24:21And hopefully the podcast does that. But hopefully what the book offers you is some of the questions that our interviewees have asked themselves that you can incorporate into your own life. Absolutely. And can I just say before we sign off, you really enjoyed the last few shorter episodes we brought you where we were answering questions from you. So if you've got a question or a topic or a challenge or something in your own life that you'd like Damien and I to touch on on one of these episodes, then just get in touch with us. Again, just click the link in the description. You can DM us on Instagram, send us a message on LinkedIn, wherever we are.

24:53And actually one of the best places to ask questions is in our brand new broadcast channel on Instagram. So dive on there, ask us a question, and you never know, you might feature on one of these episodes of High Performance. From the both of us, thanks for listening. Thank you.

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