Will Ahmed (Whoop founder) on building a multi-billion dollar business - Handpicked

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1:53Well, hello and welcome to Handpicked by High Performance. This is where Jake and I go and delve into the archives of some of the hundreds of interviews that we've done, where we select just one that's piqued our interest and go and explore it a little bit more in detail. So, Jake, who have you chosen today? I have chosen Will Ahmed, the CEO and founder of Whoop. And the reason why I've chosen him is because I have a lot of respect for people who are CEOs as well as founders. I love people that think big and see something that no one else sees. And also, he's not someone who shies away from the fact that at times on his journey of entrepreneurship, there's been struggles, there's been challenges.

2:33He has felt overwhelmed and he's had to find the tools to deal with that. So I think this is not a conversation for people who are not entrepreneurs or not in business to think, well, it doesn't relate to me. This is a conversation that relates to everyone. And, you know, Will is a guy who has built a business valued at multiple billions of pounds. And in many ways, that leaves me cold. It's not about the financial stuff. It's about the processes he's gone through to do something that I know lots of people dream about and very few people manage to do. So how much of this episode then was almost, from a selfish point of view, you listening to him from some of the similar perspectives of being the founder of a couple of businesses, sort of running them, being under pressure, all those things.

3:19What was it that stood out for you? The whole thing was selfish for me. I was just keen to probe and to understand. I think there's a big difference, though, between Will and me. And this is why, apart from the size of the businesses that we've created, right, this is why I was interested to have this conversation with him, is because I'm a bit of a cheat when it comes to being an entrepreneur, I think. So there are a number of businesses that I've invested in and advise and help and work with them, But they all have a CEO that has to actually make the decisions. They have to live or die by those decisions.

3:50You know, High Performance is now a business with quite a few team members turning over a decent amount of money. Therefore, there's a bit of pressure. And I'm not the CEO of High Performance because I found someone who is an amazing CEO and hired them to come in and run this thing. And at Whisper, you know, a much bigger business than High Performance, a much smaller business than Whoop. but again the guy that I co-founded it with is the CEO and so I have huge respect for people that have the entrepreneurial spirit to think of a great business idea have the bravery to decide to take the plunge and to go for it right I can relate to both of those two but where the real respect comes from is the area where I am in all honesty probably too much of a wimp to take on myself, which is actually the running of the business, actually the being the CEO, actually very easy to do what I do, which is like come in, sprinkle a bit of joy, you know, pick up on a few things that could be better, praise people for the stuff they've done that's great.

4:54But at the end of the day, I can turn around to a CEO and say, make sure that you deliver on those KPIs or those plans or those future projections. Whereas people are like, will, they have to also do the delivering. well should we listen to his first clip then yeah let's uh let's get into a bit of will armed here he is you want to be very decisive about the things in your life that you're you're orienting yourself towards yeah and i think for the most part uh desires can be highly motivating they can be very clarifying uh it's just you want to be mindful of how many of them at the same time are you after and how are those pulling at each other so why did that clip resonate the reason why i wanted to start with that is because i actually think and you know i would love people who dream of an entrepreneurial life to listen to this conversation and realize that when you are thinking of a business idea or thinking of a plan or you have a dream the fact that you are entrepreneurial right in my opinion and my experience actually means you've got six seven eight nine ten dreams and therefore you how you don't actually do any of them because there's so many of them you're worried about making the decision that's the wrong one and I think too often you kind of you forego creating a good business because of your dream of creating an excellent business and it's a feeling that never leaves you so when I talk about the things that I've managed to do in my career you know like the highlights I guess wanted to be on kids telly made it wanted to do Saturday morning kids telly did it want to do Formula One did it live football presenting I was keen on ended up with the Champions League final wanted to create a production company one of the you know biggest in the UK wanting to create a podcast this is high performance it's been hugely successful my brain actually says there's a million things I haven't done yeah and it will always say that so I think really the great message I think there from Will is that you do actually have to make a decision you do actually have to put your energy behind some of your desires, but don't expect that those desires eventually disappear because I don't think they do.

6:58I just think you have to be really disciplined at not trying to do everything all of the time. And the other thing I like there about Will's answer is this idea of focusing on the process, right, rather than the outcome. You know, when you have a bunch of people at the beginning of an Olympic final, they've all got the same ambition, which is to win the gold medal, right? The thing that determines who wins that gold medal is not the person with the biggest dream and the biggest ambition and the biggest will to win although that's probably important it's the person who's done the work who's got up early who's gone through the process who's done the struggles and the failures who knows more about their opponents than anybody else they're the one that's actually going to win that gold medal it's not the size of the dream it's the size of the effort and i think you can't skip that hard work when it comes to life or business so on that first example that way you've always got a million different things that you haven't done how do you now determine where you're going to divert your energy and your focus i think it was the conversation with shane parish where he said there will always be urgent things that get in the way of the important things so actually what you need to do from my experience from that conversation with shane is to decide what are the important things and make sure that the urgent things which is sort of the daily things that come in that need an answer that need immediately dealing with that those things don't don't derail the important so you still have your sort of just three or four pillars and i think the other thing is just a reminder that you're only one person right there's only so much you can do so therefore it becomes about giving yourself the space to realize that not everything can be done at the same time brilliant should we listen to another clip yeah when i was about 24 years old i think i kind of felt like i had reached a moment of crisis and running the company.

8:44I was a 24-year-old CEO. I had maybe 25 people working for me. I had raised about$10 million from investors. And all of that felt completely overwhelming. And I felt like I was failing as an entrepreneur and as a leader. And I just was overwhelmed with stress. I was drinking too much. I wasn't in sync. I didn't feel like my body was well-balanced and my mind was where it needed to be. And that led me to meditation, where I really developed a daily practice. And it really transformed my life in a lot of ways positively. And it helped me, I think, be more present. It helped me be more grateful. And then in the years to come, as we've got more and more successful, going from the business being worth hundreds of millions of to now uh 3.6 billion dollars you know just being able to to appreciate that while also still staying motivated to keep charging and uh and i think that sort of sense of balance came in large part from from learning to meditate and and uh and being a little bit more uh present i think i could second guess why that one doesn't go on have a guess well i'm i know that you've spoken about having a moment of crisis at a similar age to Will.

10:13So even when we had that interview, I remember thinking, oh, I could see your eyes light up. But that balance, that constantly striving to keep the seesaw balanced is a challenge. It is. And I think that a lot of people who are in Will's position all make the same mistake, which is you lean into more work. So you're 24 years old, as he said. I mean, look, I can't even begin to imagine the sense of overwhelm. when someone says your business is worth 3.6 billion. Now, I know that people listening to this will go, fantastic, your business is worth 3.6 billion. Well, life is so much easier when things are worth nothing because you can take risks.

10:51You can back yourself. You can rely on gut instinct. You can make outlandish, bold decisions and people will come with you on the journey because you and they have nothing to lose. When your business is 3.6 billion, when it's got to that point, because you've got loads of investors, you've got loads of staff, you've got loads of customers, therefore you've got loads of pressure. so it's so hard then to make decisions there's way less freedom when your business is worth billions of pounds right than when it's worth 500 quid and so I think naturally to counter that most people would go I'm feeling overwhelmed I'm feeling imposter syndrome I'm feeling like I'm not good enough therefore I'm going to work harder and I think the great message to everyone listening to this is we all have that sense of overwhelm in various areas of our life You know, this is not exclusive to founders and entrepreneurs and people with businesses worth a lot of money.

11:44But I think the great lesson for me from Will there is if you're feeling that sense of overwhelm, instead of trying to do more work to counteract it, try and do something the total opposite. Because that's really what he's talking about. Meditation is the total opposite of doing the work to build a huge business. How can meditating ever sort your business out? That's how the human brain would work, right? but of course it does because it gives him the counterpoint it gives him the balance it gives him the perspective it gives him an opportunity to step away from the business and I just think that's really good for all of our mental health and it took me you know when I had a kind of crisis moment in my 20s I struggled for two years till I finally sought some help and that's a lost two years that you never get back and the average amount of time that men struggle with their mental health before they seek help is over two years.

12:34They're lost years, man. So there's a great message there to do the right thing when you're struggling rather than the wrong thing. And the right thing often is counterintuitive, which is a challenge. So let me ask you then, so what do you do that seems counterintuitive now when you feel those moments of overwhelm? Not dissimilar to Will, but don't do anything. So I'll give you an example. On Friday, last week had been a really busy week and I still had a hundred things on a to-do list and on Friday I took the kids to school how it was out I went I got myself some toast I went back to bed laid in bed and watched two films back to back and I just I'm better now at knowing that that is a really good thing for me to do sometimes is just fuck all because then it allows you to rebuild and here we are you know four days later and yesterday was busy today's busy tomorrow's busy but that's okay because of that shutdown.

13:29Brilliant. Should we listen to another one? Because I think there's so many light bulb moments in Will's interview. Do you really believe that anyone can be as successful as you, that they can build a business based really on passion, which is what you've created? Do you think that's there for anyone? I do. I think you have to be obsessed with the problem. I think you have to be willing to sacrifice an enormous amount. I think you have to be willing to overcome an incredible degree of pain and sort of personal anxiety along the way. But look, you can build your dream job. I think building a business is much harder than you think it will be, but it's not nearly as hard as what everyone will tell you it is, which is to say that it's impossible.

14:20I remember when I was starting Whoop, it was everyone telling me I was going to fail and it was impossible. and frankly it was a really hard it was just really hard dealing with that like I put up a real wall to that feedback and uh and the truth is it was just a lot harder but it wasn't impossible it's cool isn't it because it's totally honest yeah um and I think that I love what you said there at the beginning about the cost the sacrifice like you do have to understand that there is a cost to doing this kind of stuff you know it is a different life if you just take a salary and you get paid at the end of the month and I think one of the challenges when you first start out in business and I bet Will felt this and I certainly did is that at the beginning you you go for advice or for counsel or for conversations with people you know but 99 % of them are employees and it doesn't take too long to realize that the mindset they have about life and business is totally different to yours and then you actually have to seek out the right kind of people to heed advice from.

15:23And actually, I think, although it's really important in life to look for counterpoints and people with different opinions, I think in business and particularly entrepreneurship, looking for people that have done it before, that are in that world is really, really important because it is so difficult, but it isn't impossible. Where I slightly, I don't necessarily disagree with Will, but you know, he said it will be harder than you think, but not nearly as hard as everyone tells you it will be yeah i actually feel i feel like it's way harder than i ever imagined it would be okay like i actually thought that building a business is something that is doable and achievable for for a lot of people but i think that that discounts luck and i think we have to be really careful to talk about that yeah so i look at whisper you know which has over 300 people and sunal the ceo has done the most incredible job to grow that business to where it is today but I actually think if we did it again I don't think we would I don't actually think it would be as successful because we've been so lucky along the way and I don't know whether those breaks would come for us again and so I'm always very wary about when we talk about something like whoop like he would have had will would have just had amazing luck and people who are successful see the things they've done as the actual answer but it isn't necessarily that what you do as an entrepreneur when you're successful is the answer it means it just worked for you they might not work for somebody else sure and I can see how that that brings a necessary humility to what you do but when you say that I think of that story you tell of where you went and sought out an advisor someone that you would have assumed was impossible or the door would have been shut and they wouldn't have been interested in it but you made your own look to still go and knock on that door and ask didn't you yeah so that was a guy who was a like a senior CEO of some huge bit like some of the most recognizable businesses in in the in the UK yeah and we I went and knocked on his door and asked if he'd like to be on a board of directors for for the group and this is when we were tiny with about 10 members of stuff and I remember him saying I couldn't be on a board of a business that size but the fact you've actually come in the room and asked me that question believing that I might say yes tells me loads so why don't I be a kind of a mentor for you and I'll work with you over the next few years and help you out and that was a really that was a really nice moment and I suppose it's a small indicator of how some people think maybe a little bit differently but also the power of optimism and how often have we spoken about particularly in business the power of optimism of thinking that great things are going to happen it is no guarantee that those things will happen but I do think it gets you closer to them happening and you know let's take Will as the perfect example you You know, he's raised hundreds of millions of dollars for Whoop.

18:10You don't go into a fundraiser of that size without believing you can do it. And the only way that you believe other people, many of you you've never met, are going to give you hundreds of millions of dollars for your business, the only way you believe they'll do that is if you're an optimist. So that in itself is the perfect example of the power of optimism. We've got one last clip that resonated with you. Let's listen to that and come back and explore what it meant. The thing that I've taken most from the world's best athletes personally is just the general mindset that they have towards greatness.

18:47They do a phenomenal job staying present in the sense that they are hyper-focused in the moment on being great. And they don't spend a lot of time really reflecting from a nostalgia standpoint. and in a way it seems they're almost driven to a fault and the ones who tend to be happiest in being driven to a fault also have some form of gratitude that they bring into their life so they're simultaneously hungry and they're on that you know dopamine train of I need to win the next thing while also being grateful for their success why did that one I think because it has two really important lessons and I think the first lesson is this idea of the people that you surround yourself with having a genuine impact on your life and what Will's basically saying there actually is I created Whoop I managed to get it in the hands of some really famous athletes who are really successful and then I spent time with them to develop and improve the product and he has developed his kind of coat of arms if you like as an entrepreneur from the lessons he's taken from those people and it is you know what did marcus wearing tell us when he joined us on the podcast the chef you hang around with shit you'll turn into shit it's it's true the people that you surround yourself with are so important to your overall mindset and i'm sure you would agree that we can't possibly be the same people that started this podcast because of the hundreds of conversations we've had with high performers in inverted commas that have informed the way that we think right yeah well just we've just finished an interview i thought we were the brain surgeon and the first person I phoned is my wife to pass on one of his pieces of wisdom.

20:32Which bit of advice? That one around, he was talking about when you see the end in sight, sometimes you're stronger than you think you'll be. Nice, isn't it? Yeah, but again, you have to be a sponge, don't you, rather than a rock when it comes to these messages. Absolutely. So that was the first thing, the importance of who you surround yourself with. and I think the second important bit of information from that clip is that just because someone is a perceived high performer it doesn't mean they have all the answers and I really like the fact that Will is obviously able to take the really important lessons from these people their approaches to life, their high standards their non-negotiable behaviours their total and utter commitment to their craft but at the same time he's like well it doesn't come for free You know, there's something about them that is painful and difficult.

21:24Are they actually the happiest people in the room? Nine times out of ten, they're not. So it is an understanding that people are there for you to learn from and improve from spending time with, but also to remember that there are some things about their lived experience that you can also not replicate and not copy and not do all over again because it wasn't great for them and it wouldn't be great for you. so it's just that reminder of talk to people man ask everyone you meet a question because they will know something that you don't whether it's something that you could add to your life or remove from your life which is almost a brilliant description of what this podcast is about isn't it and these reflections on the handpicked are exactly are doing exactly that i love them so if you've loved listening to that you can go and search it out it's episode 86 in the high performance archive but you can either click the link below and watch it or you can go and search for it on the High Performance app.

22:21Until next time, see you soon.

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