The Framework You Need When You Pivot with Sam Parr

23:31I know that that's changing, but like, I'm watching to see the way that people do business in a very different way. And I'm learning to know it is very cool. And so the way that thinkers, huge thinkers and very direct, like it was just something that it was just, you just are simply asking questions. and I'm so excited to like help. And then it's reciprocated. And as you're building, if you're thinking about this big picture, the way that you've done it and the way that you did it with Joe, I want to ask like, what are the three things that you're looking for as a co-founder? So somebody's in the middle of a pivot and they're like, I don't want to do this alone.

24:01But before you answer, can I read Joe's answer? Like what he was looking for when it came to a co-founder? He says, when I look for a co-founder, my priorities are threefold. Number one, would I enjoy being delayed at an airport with them for many hours? With Sam? Yes. Two, do their skill sets complement or overlap mine? I look for complement, no overlap. And that was one of the things that you had mentioned, like operations, like he's a 10. And three, are they an optimist or a pessimist? I look for an optimist as I'm jaded enough. So do you consider yourself an optimist? Yeah. Did you ask him all this stuff?

24:36Hey, don't worry. I plot, bro. I plot. This is me plotting. I'm trying to find the exact document that we made, but yeah, I'm an optimist. Yeah. Yeah. I'll try and find it. But basically, we basically made like a... I don't know. Here it is. I have it right here. I can send it to you. But I don't want you to share this. I don't want you to read all of it. But I'll let you skim it. But basically, we made an agreement of like, I just said, like, what's important to you? And he said, what's important? We each wrote what's important to each other. We said, like, what do you want your typical day to look like?

25:07What does success look like? What values do you want to live by? And we said, cool, there's a lot of overlap here. we can work together. Here, I just pasted it in here in this Zoom. You should be... Yeah. I'm going to be able to open it. Ooh, I'm not going to read it. You can read some of it. Don't read some of the numbers. But I'll read a few of mine. I said, I want freedom. I want the ability to live in different cities with my family. I want to be able to fly private. I want to be present with my children and wife. I want to own different real estate throughout the country. I want fun, adventure, and living on my own terms.

25:43I want to work very hard, but like a lion. I want to work really long hours. But then I want to take a vacation for 4 weeks. And I want to be able to travel the world comfortably. And then I said that what I want for Hampton is I want companionship with you and other co-workers. I want no outside ownership, meaning no VC. I want to get to$100 million in revenue in a short period of time. I want this to be my main job. So I'm working 40 plus hours a week, and then I don't want to work on other stuff. And then Joe said he wants flexibility and freedom. He wants no office. He wants to work remote.

26:16He wants to enjoy his work. He wants to work on something very exciting and challenging. And he likes working with me. He said he wants to make a certain amount of money. He wants influence and respect. And he enjoys proving people wrong, which I wrote as well. He wants to look back 25 years from now and have a really cool real estate empire. He likes having a skeleton crew, so a small team. and he wants to keep the overhead lightweight so we can move quickly. And so we basically wrote out that and we said, Cool, I think there's a ton of alignment here. So I'm going to repeat back because as we're listening or as we're watching, when we talk about pivots, we're actually dissecting the way that one person has done it.

26:56It doesn't have to be this way, but I found it pretty fascinating because what I saw in Sam's story, the more that I dug in, was that it seemed like every 2 or 3 years, something had shifted. And I wanted to get into the mindset of what he was doing during those moments of shifting because my career very differently, but has followed that cadence of every three years, something like shifts for me. And so I wanted to know, Sam is getting different results than I am. So selfishly, I get to have this podcast in service of others, but I want to know, how is he approaching the game differently? And what I picked up is during the downtimes, there is a distinct moment of down.

27:28Then he's assessing that Venn diagram. Four part, like look at it as a leaf in the center point is the thing that he should be creating. And then what he starts doing is he starts plotting who can get me the information, the answers, the connections that I want to know. And as he's doing that, he's researching to see what product market fit is. This is all before anything has been formalized. And then he decides, do I want to do this with somebody else or do I want to do this on my own? And then what he does is he goes out and lays the terms for what he wants to do as he builds with somebody else.

27:57I think that is really, really fascinating. Did I miss anything in there, Sam? No, you did great. you're really good. One thing that maybe you missed was I say the price I'm willing to pay. Talk to me. What do you mean? So in there, I said, I'm going to work this hard. So I'm going to work really hard. So here's the price I'm going to pay. I'm willing to do all this. I'm going to go all in. We also said, here's how much capital we're willing to put up. And so in this case, it was millions of dollars. Here's what we're willing to spend. And then I say, here's the price I'm not going to pay. So I set the terms, which...

28:33Yeah, I guess you said it. You're very talented at this, by the way. Oh, stop. Oh, stop. Oh, stop. No, for real. You're really good. Lastly, though, oftentimes, the things that I've heard with partners, life partners, business partners, co-founders, is that we often assume and studies show that we often assume that the other person or the other people know how we feel about them. When in fact, they're actually not quite sure. So I said, Hey, Joe, what would you say to Sam to make sure that you know, like how much you appreciate him? And he said, the Hampton community is something special. And cracking the chicken egg around membership in the beginning wouldn't have been possible without Sam at all.

29:12So I think it says a lot about your partnership and how you went about that and how you honored that. What are some mistakes or what are things that you wish you had learned earlier or done differently? Like was every co-founder relationship this great? No. A lot of them. Most were bad. I mean, it's the same thing with girlfriends and things like that. You have to mature. My wife and I... My wife is very emotionally stable. I'm very up and down. She's more of a rock. and like what I learned with some I had other long-term relationships and you kind of get into it and you realize oh man our values aren't aligned I still I love you but like this this won't work or we don't want the same thing and so with her like six months into the relationship or maybe three months we I sat down and this is really nerdy but I go tell me the life you want in 10 years and let's like put a price on that like we'll even say like literally tell me the material things you want.

30:07Tell me the values you want to live by. Where do you want to live? Let's make sure that the life that you want is the same as the life I want. And so I actually think that it's important to have some of these almost nerdy, but definitely awkward conversations and just be pretty meticulous about it. And you just... You got to be mature. It's quite challenging. But I do that with a lot of relationships where I just... Where we literally map out and I go, No, no, no. You have to be specific. Tell me exactly what you want. And when you have that conversation, you say like, well, I accept that you say you want that.

30:37And I accept that it may change. But let's just like paint a picture of like where we want to go. And maybe there's some... It's going to deviate, but that's cool. But I just want to know. And so yeah, I do that early on. I didn't do that earlier in my career. And I had a couple bad... All types of bad relationships, including co-founder relationships. And we just totally didn't align. But we would work together because of convenience. And that's a pretty bad thing to do. I want to tap there for a second. but I do want to take a second. Your wife's name is Sarah and I haven't met her personally, but you talk about her often on My First Million.

31:07And when you talked about the frameworking around what it is you want, my husband and I were co-founders, business partners. We've been high school sweethearts. We've grown up together. And every year around the end of the year, we tried to set like intentions, terms. And after listening to a podcast where you got really, really specific about the cost you're willing to pay, it really changed the way that we approached specifically as we started a family. And there were things that I was... Something I said? Yeah, you actually... No, no, no, not to me. You were talking on the podcast about that.

31:38You keep on saying, oh, it was really nerdy. It was really geeky. But we sat down and I was like, I don't think it was nerdy or geeky. It gave almost like a deeper insight instead of like, oh, our goals for the year and what we want. It was actually setting terms and talking about, this is what I want, but it's going to come at a cost. And then acknowledging the cost at the beginning was a total game changer for us because it's not like, well, I said I wanted this, but we didn't identify what we would have to sacrifice in order to get that. We have to not just say, this is the thing we're going for.

32:07It's what are we okay with in terms of sacrifice? And I've spoken about it before on my podcast or like what it meant for me to continue being the CEO of social curator, as well as taking on other business endeavors and investments and travel. Like I I said, I want to continue traveling. We can both say, yeah, amazing, great. But the cost of it, the cost of it is in order for me to travel and still be present as a wife and mother, we're traveling together. And that comes at a cost, a little across like physicality time, but also monetary. That my travel costs are gonna be now tripled because it's three seats in an airplane, things of that nature.

32:43So I think that what I took from that conversation wasn't just like, oh, let's have some like goal setting. It was counting the cost of what it means to achieve those goals. Yeah. And whether it's your business partner or your wife or husband, partnerships are all the same. Right. Where you have to get aligned and have all that trust. The reason why I call it nerdy is because some people have OKRs for the relationship. And I'm cool with that. But I don't want to make it entirely like a business relationship. Right. Emotions. I'm an emotional human being. I'm half emotion, half logic, maybe more emotion.

33:17But so I like, I do want, and I do want space for, I do it just because it's cool. Like too often business people, they're like, well, you have to optimize that. I'm like, yeah, but it's dope this way. Like, and that's like a good enough reason, right? Like, I mean... I have to say, Sam, I have to say that I've never, I've never, I've never, I've never like added to my ledger, like the fun cost, right? To me, I'm like, I like to do. I find joy in doing. And I know I'm weird. I just like it. I, to me, people are like, well, what do you do for fun? I'm like, I, I like business. That's my fun. That's my hobby.

33:53Right. And so joining Hampton forced me and I said, I'm going to do things different in 2023 in regard to my business than I've ever done before. And I'm like, I don't know what that actually looks like, but I'm around people who think fun should be on their emotional ledger. And I was like, interesting. And so Hampton is hosting an event for you guys. I've never even heard of this fricking word before. Rally car. See, You beat me to it, dude. Whoa, you stole my thunder. I was like, what the hell's a rally car? I literally Googled what's a rally car. And so Hampton has these like breakout in-person events, right?

34:26So let me just quickly explain that what Sam and Joe are trying to build is big, really big. They want a big community of like-minded people. But in order for people to be like fully bought in, you're put into a cohort anywhere from eight to 10 people with around a similarly sized business. And so you meet with this cohort once every month, But then they have in-person events that are open to everybody. So you're going to have opportunity to mix with people who are doing like 100 million to 1 million or actually the bar for Hampton to apply. I think now it was like 2 million. So you're going to be working with...

34:56Yeah, something like that. And so I decide that I am going to apply to go to this rally car event in freaking Texas. And I don't know what the heck I'm doing. I feel like I'm so out of my element. But I said, if I want different results and I'm looking at somebody who's doing what I want to do, I'm just going to copy it until I make it my own. So look at me, adding fun in my life. Shits and giggles. There needs to be a place for that. Oh, Lord. See, already I'm like, oh man, maybe I should request a refund. No, like, I don't know. We only have one life. We got to do stuff just because sometimes.

35:32And so I like doing too. But then I like, I try to live in a way that makes my 12-year-old self proud. So I have all types of toys. I buy toys like crazy, like motorcycles and weird stuff on Amazon, just because. And it just makes me happy. So I think there needs to be space for dumb stuff. I agree. Well, I'm learning to agree. But in service of people who are listening, I can distinctly feel strongly that there's somebody who's listening to the podcast, and they love their life partner. There's somebody who's listening to the podcast, and they really love their co-founder. But they know that if they were to have these we are setting terms and the cost of the terms, there's going to be misalignment.

36:14And so what I don't want to do is assume that everybody's at the point of, oh, I'm having this conversation before I'm married or I'm having this conversation before I agree to co-found a business. When you are in the middle of, and you've had relationships with co-founders where you realize that there was misalignment, like what are the patterns? What are the conversations? What kind of changes are you making? Like what is happening in that messy middle? Resentment. So usually, resentment is the worst thing to have to where it's like, you're holding me back. So with Joe and Jordan, we have a CEO, Jordan.

36:44It feels like we egg each other on in a really healthy way. And so that feels good. Resentment is the opposite of that, where it's like, you're not pushing me forward. You're holding me back. And so resentment is real. That sucks. It is real. Have you ever had a break from a co-founder? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a roommate matching thing. Yeah, he's a wonderful person. I remember the distinct thing. I was like, which band do you want this company to be like? And he named some small no-name indie band. And I was like, I want to be Lady Gaga. I was like, I'm trying to take over the world, bro.

37:21I'm not trying to play in a little small club in a van. I want to fly private and beat Obama. I don't want to do... You know what I'm saying? I want someone to put the poster on the wall because I came to their hotel. You know what I'm saying? I want that good. So then what happens when you realize that you guys want to be two different bands? You got to cut. I think you end it. You end it, which sucks. But I think you have to do that. Okay. So as we talk about this, there's a difference between I know I need to end it versus I'm not sure I need to end it. So when you're not sure if you need to end it, there comes this idea of hearing feedback.

38:03And so I did go back to 2014 of the anti-MBA blog post. Keep in mind, the things that you're citing, the weird thing about being like... I'm not exactly a public figure, but writing in public is... So in 2014, I was 24. So what I always tell people when they read my old stuff, I go, I still believe a lot of it. But you have to understand, I'm evolving. So I hope what you're about to say, I don't look stupid. Well, what I will say though, is from the 2017 blog post, the caveat was that you had said the risk was assessed differently than food in a roof over my head to social equity and respect from people you really love and respect.

38:42Okay, different. But I actually strongly feel like based on what I know, I feel like we're still going to be hitting like a 95%. I put my stamp of approval on this one. So research quote, Research shows that negative feedback helps us learn and grow more quickly than positive feedback. However, negative feedback only works if you're in the right mindset. Otherwise, it could be catastrophic. You must make it about the thing you did and not about you. You have to be really secure and feel good about yourself if you're getting critiqued, if all you're getting is critiqued. So really, the key to build up your self-esteem muscles is by showing them that you are okay when things go wrong and that feedback is about what you're doing and not who you are.

39:20decouple performance from self esteem. So you had said how you like to get feedback. And so I still do that. Talk to me and talk to you. So, so this is why I'm like, I still strongly feel based on what I've heard that that's what you like. And so here we are, we're talking about what you've done to pivot. You've talked about, you know, co-founder relationships that aren't working well, what you learned, applied it to this new working relationship. But as you grow with Joe and Jordan and the whole team, you're bound to get negative feedback, but you're not like, I'm going to ruin, throw this relationship away.

39:53How are you prepared for that? And how vital is it to keep going? We have to get negative feedback. How do we prepare ourselves to hear it from our team? Negative feedback is the best stuff. So usually when I get negative feedback, I try to compliment the person and I say, I'm so thankful that you just told me that. So I'll give you a very specific example. Yesterday, for a while, I told Jordan, grow, grow, grow, grow, grow. And then when we got like 5 ,000 applications, I was like, F this, man. Don't grow that fast. We can't ruin this. But I said that in front of a bunch of people. He goes, can I talk to you privately?

40:27I said, yeah, sure. He goes, pick a side. Either tell us to grow or tell us not to grow. But you can't say that in front of everyone, because you're going to make me look stupid if I'm giving orders. And I was like, you're totally right you're 100 right i'm so appreciative that you called me out on that so another example like with the pod like here's less like really a more specific examples like sometimes people will like make fun of the way i look and i'm like oh you're right i'm fat i i probably should get i should like lose weight like i'm chubby like when i used to be a little chubbier and then now that i'm like very comfortable with my body people will make fun of me i'm like oh yeah but that's bullshit like i'm fine i'm great so like i pick and choose kind of who it is that i listen to but sometimes i try to like listen to the feedback and i say are they right or wrong and i really reflect on it and if i think they're right then i actually try to like listen to it and act on it but sometimes it's like like i don't care like for example my podcast when they say like um this guy's a tech bro i'm like well am i like broey i'm like i don't think i am i think i look like it but i don't think i am so i'm just gonna like ignore that uh uh that's That's bad feedback.

41:32Or this person just projecting because of the way I look. Or if they say like, the audio production sucks. I'm like, yeah, I know it sucks. But I don't care. I'm focusing on the content right now. I'll get to it later. I'm not listening to that. So I pick and choose what I listen to. But usually what I do is I create a Google form. And I ask people two questions like, what do you think I'm doing well at? Where do I suck? And I don't even read the well thing. I don't care. That's just a red herring. I just want to distract them. And then another good question is like, what am I out of 10 for these specific things.

42:00And usually everyone's going to say like a 7 or an 8. And you'd be like, alright, great. How do I get to become a 10? And then that's when they tell you where your weakness is. And so I do that a lot. I have a personal example. Yeah, let's hear it. Okay, that was me leading you into the... Say more. I said, let's hear it! Okay, so I don't know how the conversation began, but I sent you a message in Hampton and I was like, where are all the girls at? I don't know where we got that And I was uncomfortable saying that because it almost made me feel like I couldn't hold my own in the community. But I was just asking.

42:40But did you think that I was uncomfortable receiving that? Zero. No, I didn't. I didn't. I didn't. I didn't. But and that's why I wanted to bring the story up was because instead of you asking more questions, you immediately owned it and said, got any ideas? And I think I said, I think I said, you're right. This is embarrassing. Well, I wasn't going to say that. I wasn't going to be like, yeah, you said you were really embarrassed. No, I mean... Yeah, I was. I was like, you're right. This is stupid. Like, this is a total failure. You're totally right. And sometimes I'll ask people for ideas. I don't think that Ernest should be on you to tell me how to do my job.

43:17But I do look for feedback. But yeah, it's embarrassing. There's no doubt about that. Well, I want to talk about... What I really wanted to focus on was, number one, there's a difference between receiving feedback and taking it as criticism or a critique. A criticism is just saying what you're doing wrong. A critique is like, maybe we could try different approaches, which you were so willing and able to listen to. But it didn't stop there because you set up a meeting for me to meet with this guy named Jordan, who I didn't know at the time was in the process of becoming the CEO of Hampton. So what you essentially said was, I hear it.

43:52We're gonna start acting on it, but we're gonna make it more of an official thing. And to be able to talk to the CEO of this amazing big organization and have him listen and hear and ask for ideas, I did not feel like I was asked to fix a problem. I was asked to add color and insight to how it might be approached. And so I wanted to take that as a takeaway for listeners because I too pick and choose the feedback and criticism that I receive from the stuff I pull out. So in the context of as we pivot, we're going to be starting new things. And in the process of starting new things, there are a bunch of unanswered questions.

44:27and a litany of ways to get better. It's not enough. Now the bar, what I have learned going through this experience, it's not enough to say, I hear you. And it's not enough to say like, I will change. It's I want you to see actions that we're taking on the back end of that. So I wanted to highlight that as a main key takeaway. And also when I get feedback in public, my knee-jerk reaction, I was just talking to a friend of mine who is in Hampton, who criticized someone on Twitter. And I said, Hey, just so you know, you're criticized, you criticize this person And you're right. But if you ever did that to me in public, I'm going to like...

45:00My knee-jerk reaction is to get in a fight with you in public. And because you just embarrassed me. You should have told them maybe privately. Because even though you're right, it was pretty embarrassing because you can make them look silly. And so my whole thing... Because we're in public and people make fun of me all the time in YouTube comments and on Twitter. Sometimes I'm biting the bait. I'm getting into it. But then a lot of times I have to remind myself like, don't react. Don't react. Please don't react. And so it's... The right way is to be graceful. But you can't give feedback negatively in public.

45:38Otherwise, it's just bad for the recipient. So what for you... I mean, I have a bar. I take it all. I take it all. I'm like, listen, the thing I tell myself is like, people who are doing better than me are not leaving the negative comments. So it's like... That's literally what I just... I'm like, okay. I just tell myself like, listen you got too much time sitting on your couch with those cheeto orange fingers for you to type on the keyboard and tell me your opinions about me but my line is if somebody comes at jd or luna it's like i'm wearing some big hoop earrings like hold my earrings give me my breast knuckles we going down honey we going like no no i'll take it they never signed up they never signed up to be in the arena they are bystanders you touch them you better run and if you take a swing at me and you miss, you better sleep with one eye open.

46:23I'll tell you that much. What's your like? If it's family, I'm like, kill mode activated. So yeah, it's the same thing. If they attack my integrity, like for example, this one person. So I usually start startups, but I love doing information products. I have this thing on how to write better. And someone made fun of me and they're like, this is a scam. I'm like, what the hell are you talking about? How is this a scam? And like, Like, what am I... So if they attack my integrity, I'll usually pounce. I'm like, what's the scam here? Show me proof. Show me evidence. Don't make this out like I'm a liar.

47:01So if they do that, I get really angry. But if they just say I'm stupid, I'm fine with that because they're probably right. As we dovetail towards the end, one of the things that Sam was talking about, so y 'all can see for yourself, it's a scam or not. If you go to copythat.com, I actually came across Copy That before I actually knew Sam in the capacity that we know each other, which is like big air quotes, I just say it so that I sound cooler as a podcaster, was going through what it meant to sell in a different way. So I grew up, grew up. Yeah. I grew up in this industry learning like, oh, this is the methodology of selling.

47:32And then I came across a very simple page, lead acquisition, making an offer. And I was like, whoa. Was it good? It was really good. It was really good. It was really, really good. And so I say that first and foremost as a outsider going through that experience. And then I say it now as somebody who like knows you, be like, listen, check it out for yourself. Sam, I have to say, thank you. I'm going to pull back a little bit. And so that my goal is fulfilled. And that goal is to get somebody to taking action. And so if you find yourself in search of or desire of a pivot, or you find yourself, AKA plotting for the next thing, first thing is if you do a deep dive of that diagram, find out your special center, and then do the diligence and work to figure out product market fit.

48:16And if anybody can help you understand the industry and get you to where you want to go faster, then you get to ask yourself if you want to build a loan. And that's totally cool. And if you're at a place, if you want to find a co-founder to go through some of the frameworks that Joe and Sam listed, and to understand that there is a cost of everything you're going to do and to make sure that your life partners and business partners are co-signed on that cost. And then also understanding that every time you do something new is you develop your next pivot and you're plotting in your next venture, you will be criticized and criticism and critiques are a good thing as long as you're setting the framework for them.

48:48Sam, how can people get more information about who you are and what you do? So I have a few things. I'm active on Twitter. That's kind of like where I like to nerd out. So my name is TheSamPar on Twitter. You're always criticizing my Instagram. It's not the best. I think you said... It's a critique, bro. I give you ideas. Whenever I say like, hey, we got to up the game. It comes with, this is what you could do. You know, I'm bossy. I'm a boss. So I was like, listen, let's go. here's the plan. Get out of it. And I agree with you. My feedback to that is, I just don't want to be on my phone. I wish Instagram would let me do all this stuff on the computer, on the desktop.

49:22I'm like, I don't want to touch this phone. I hate this. But yeah, my Instagram... I think you said, Quit posting shirtless pictures of you working out. And I was like, yeah, that's probably right. If you happen to be one of the very few people that want to see that, that's available. Twitter, joinhampton.com is Hampton. The hustle. I don't own it anymore, but I still love it. And we talked about Copy That. You can just go and look at it. It's a fun sales page. I like writing that type of stuff. And understanding that Copy That is for people who actually want to learn how to write better copy.

49:52And it's very rote. It's doing the work again and again. It's like a proven age-old approach on writing better copy. It's like learning to play music. When you learn to play music... I love music analogies. I like music. No one gives you a guitar and you say, go write a song you like play other people's music and you learn like the texture the patterns the melodies you do that for a little while and then you're like oh i love this thing this thing this thing and this thing from these eight people i'm going to combine them but cool i've got something really unique here and that's the same thing with writing in my opinion is it's really hard just to be like oh just go be a good writer instead it's easier to copy other people and then just like learn different patterns and best practices and then uh and so with writing you can literally copy things out by hand.

50:31And it's very effective. So yeah, that's what it is. On that note, I want to say thank you for allowing me to copy your version of Row, Row, Your Boat and Happy Birthday on my business guitar. And one day I'm going to come up with my own riff and Axl Rose will be like, this girl, she's got it. She's got it. Dude, you're like a rapper. You come up with all these good phrases very quickly. You're very... You've got... We talked about this and copy that actually. You have rhythm. You've got very good rhythm when it comes to speaking. So I'm learning from you. Thank you, Sam. Thank you. Thank you for being on the show.

51:05We look forward. If you have enjoyed this conversation with Sam and you're on Twitter, give him a shout out and or tag him on Instagram so that he really ups his game. Because while we love photos of his dog, Sid, and his gorgeous wife, Sarah, we would really like for him to showcase more of this business prowess online as he builds out funnels and ways for people to connect at joinhampton.com. Y 'all, like always, it is an honor and a privilege. Thanks for listening.