The AI Career Track Is Coming | with Live from HR Tech, Pt. 2

0:00I think that we're going to create eventually another track that has more of an AI component to it. What that's called, I don't know. And I think when it comes to pay and compensation, I think that's going to be rewarded. Meaning those who show fluency and competency with managing AI processes, AI teams, I think is going to be a skill that warrants a premium financially in organizations. The future work is just evolving in the sense of where we will always be at the forefront to design it the way it needs to fit the current organization needs. Like that'll never go away, AI or not. I don't care what anybody says.

0:49AI will replace tasks that we do from that standpoint, but they will never take over. They will never take over the human element. You're listening to the Modern People Leader podcast, where we go behind the scenes with today's top HR leaders and work experts. We talk to them about how they've gotten to where they're at, what they do every day, and what they see coming next for the future of work. Hope you enjoy.

1:21Gianna, welcome back to the podcast for the third or fourth time. Do you know the exact number? I'm such a fan of what you all do that I've lost track, Daniel. I know you've done a lot of podcasts, but why are we your favorite? You know, part of it is your following of folks are people who are, I think, leading the charge when it comes to innovation in HR. And you all have just a community that has been there through all of the events and the podcasts and the different things that you've done. I have met people who I would consider dear friends and mentors and I met them through NPL. I did not know that.

1:58Yeah. Can you tell me who one of these people are? Do you remember, do you know Alex Silas? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I met him in person at the Austin event. I did not know that. And we have become very dear friends. NPL, making friends. I love it. Out in the world. Yes. And learning. And learning, yes. And all of the other things. Well, we still start every episode with good news stories. Yeah. Do you have anything? I do. I actually just returned a couple of days ago from the Philippines. It's already, it was already that time for your annual trip? Yeah. Oh my gosh. Yeah. That flew by. I love that, you know, it was my annual trip.

2:33Yeah. Yeah. And as per usual, we did our volunteer stuff at Project Pearls and it was as moving as ever. And it was an opportunity to merge my passion, philanthropic, give back Filipino roots, help those who are impoverished and less fortunate with also my work life. And just really, really had a fantastic time. Are you fluent? And is it Filipino? Is that? Tagalog. Okay. Yeah. I'm not fluent. But you can get around. I do okay. That's awesome. my good news is that we're reconnecting in person yeah before we hit court on the camera we were talking about how we needed to catch up like proper catch up not on camera and so I'm just so happy to see you oh likewise Daniel no truly yeah and so I guess just to start we're here yet again another HR conference yeah and I imagine you have some goals going into each of these conferences.

3:37What's your goal for this week? So here at HR Tech, we have a lot of larger organizations. As I have found, and I'm sure you probably would agree, the different HR conferences pull different audiences. This one, in my experience, pulls from a slightly larger company group of folks, and I'd love to learn from them. I'd love to understand what are the challenges they're facing as they look to have AI adoption, as they look to have workforces that are meeting the times. I've heard in conversations with people today, there's this thought that change is happening all around and there's a lot of change fatigue.

4:21And in many ways, it's something that I'm hearing in the Bay Area from small tech companies. And it's really affirming to hear that here as well. Tell me more about change fatigue. Like how is this manifesting? Is it manifesting itself in burnout? Like just people are, yeah. Tell me more about that. I think there's an element of burnout. Yes. And also what I'm realizing is we're living in a time where there's the newest, latest, greatest tool or AI widget or platform that's going to consolidate and sit on top of all these other different tools and widgets. And our employees are trying to keep them with that.

4:56They're like, okay, another tool. All right, let me try to learn how I'm supposed to use it and my workflows, et cetera, et cetera. And what we're hearing from a lot of people, not only in the tech industry, but across industries is people are tired. There's a sense of change yet another change. And there's no rest. No, there really isn't. And especially with technology and with AI, it's hard to take a deep breath and press pause. And that's something that I'm hearing from my friends and HR colleagues as well. And what are they doing about it, if anything? What do you do with that? You know you have change fatigue.

5:36You know the change isn't going to stop. What do you do with that information? So I think the first step is to acknowledge there's a lot going on and there's a lot of change. One of the things we're doing at One Workplace is we're trying to articulate the why behind various different changes that we're doing. So it's not change for change sake. It's not that we are so passionate about change. We just want to try the latest and greatest and lean into change. What we're doing is we're trying to say, here is the problem we want to solve. Here is the what's in it for you. And that's why we are implementing a new tool or a new platform.

6:16So it's almost like slowing down to speed up because I think sometimes it's so easy to get caught up in the hustle bustle change. Everyone's doing it. And there's a fear that if I don't do it now and do it like everyone else, I'm going to be left behind. So taking a moment to pause and to say, all right, let's lift out of the weeds of change and all the tactical operational pieces, understand why we are doing this. What is the problem we're trying to solve? Okay. Make sure everyone's on board and they have that. That creates the openness to lean into the change? I'm definitely feeling the change fatigue and I'm a solopreneur, you know, obviously I have Steven as a co-founder and co-host, but with him not being in the day-to-day, I can feel the change fatigue.

7:03And you made a comment about how everything's moving so fast and you feel like you have to hustle. I literally have to remind myself when I'm walking through a conference hall or like walking through the casino and we have you're like slow down yes like why are you sprinting like yes chill out like there's nothing like so urgent that you need to sprint there yeah but it's hard and I feel like that's how it's manifesting in people's personal lives like obviously like there's the day-to-day of their work and like slowing down to rethink like why we're actually doing this whatever it is that we're doing but I do think get trickles into people's personal lives as well.

7:41I think that's true. One of the things that I reflect on sometimes is that quote, I'm probably going to mess it up, that it goes something like, if you want to travel fast, travel alone. If you want to travel far, travel together. Yeah. And with all of the change, sometimes my knee-jerk reaction is got to go, got to go. All right, run, run, run, run, run, run really fast. And I have to consciously slow down and say, okay, hold on, that's overwhelming. It's not sustainable. Let me walk a little slower and let me turn to my friends and colleagues and my community because I don't want to do all of this on my own.

8:20I want to feel a sense of camaraderie and team and I want to learn from and with other people. And so taking a moment to say, all right, I want to travel far. Speed is something that, yes, it is important, but not speed at all cost. And so when it comes to change, let me walk this road and this path with my community and people I look up to and my mentors and also be open when others knock on that door. Yeah. So there's the change fatigue. There's also this, I don't know a better way of putting it, but like we've done 40 off the record interviews in the last two months. And the first question that I ask every person is what's the hardest thing on your plate?

9:08And the response is something to the effect of we're being asked to completely redesign the work. We're also being asked to upskill every employee to become AI fluent. And we're also a lot of times being asked to let go teams and have our remaining team do more work. So like do more with less. And so that's just a lot. And then on top of that, you have like this new problem or this new challenge that we're all facing or a lot of companies are facing where they want to flatten the org. They don't want to have as many layers. There aren't as many opportunities to get promoted into a manager role.

9:56And so we're also having to rethink what a career looks like going forward. Does any of this? All of it. Okay. All of it sounds very resonant. Yeah. And I don't know like how you package that into like one problem, I guess just the change. I don't know. Yeah. So a couple things. Deep breaths, first of all. You said something that I'm reframing for my own self. and that is this notion of do more with less. I'm trying to reframe it as do more with the same because the less piece for me starts to feel like a scarcity mentality and concept. Like, okay, I'm expected to do all of these things and I have fewer resources, people, budget, et cetera, to do it.

10:44And I don't think that's the right approach. I do think with technology and efficiencies and all of that, There is something to be said about doing more, but I would argue perhaps we should think of it as doing more with the same. Number one. Number two, you mentioned things like rethinking career progression, rethinking manager career tracks. I think that's the right conversation to be having because to be a manager might not necessarily be the old school way of thinking, oh, I have to only be managing humans. Perhaps there are other blended career tracks where managing agents and managing bots and things are another form of managerial skill.

11:34And that should be in our career ladders and that should be competencies and things that we look at. So what I try to do to answer the other part of your question around change and just the overwhelm is to not focus on everything all at once, but to chunk it up into smaller bite-sized pieces and say, all right, let me sit with that. Let me process that. Okay, put that over here. Now let me take the next piece. So if we're chunking up everything that we just discussed and focus on what career paths look like today, are you able to share any of your thoughts or predictions on where all of this is going?

12:14All right. Well, these are predictions. You heard it here. You heard it first. I think we're going to move into a world of total rewards, rewarding not just the ICs and the manager tracks. So your P and your S, kind of the support and professional or the IC tracks. And then many organizations have the M tracks, the manager tracks. I think that we're going to create eventually another track that has more of an AI component to it. What that's called, I don't know. And I think when it comes to pay and compensation, I think that's going to be rewarded. Meaning those who show fluency and competency with managing AI processes, AI teams, I think is going to be a skill that warrants a premium financially in organizations.

13:05Now, I think there's an evolution to get to there. We're not there today, but I can see that world happening. What's the first step in getting to that future? Like, again, to like chunk it up, like how what's your thought process? How do you how do you even get to that future state? I would say as we come up with our career ladders, being intentional to say, let me start with a job family and just start to think about, OK, what could it look like if there was a blended component here? so that it's not just your M track or your P and your S tracks career-wise. What could that look like if I take a customer service manager and a customer service senior manager and a CS director and I start to think of them as not just managing human agents, but also managing teams of AI agents?

13:57And what are the competencies? How are those different? How do I expect those leaders to provide direction differently to a team of AI folks as opposed to a team of human folks. And so for this new track, it's all uncharted territory. Like there's, nobody's come up with what compensation should look like, like what the level should be. What do you see companies doing for the ones that are creating this new track? My thoughts, and these are purely my thoughts, I should include the disclaimers here, are, I think once we start to build out those tracks, we'll look for internal people to raise their hand and say, I would like to be on that track and have an opportunity to show how AI is helping me and how I'm leveraging and managing AI to get my work done.

14:50And I have an AI team behind me, number one. Number two, I think from a total rewards perspective, what we're going to say is comp wise, it's somewhere between an individual contributor and a manager. We may eventually get to a place where there's a premium beyond that of the manager. I don't know. Because you think about the efficiencies gains when you're able to manage a team of agents, that's probably a lot of cost savings. And if you're an aspiring CS manager of agents, you're probably going to do the math and negotiate and self-advocate for a higher salary would be my guess. And I think what we do is there aren't market comps out there.

15:31You can't go to Radford or other places, Willers, Towers, Watson, whatever, and get this information. So I think we're making it up as we go. What will ultimately help us understand the true market value is when those folks start to get calls from recruiters. What is the true market rate for these types of positions? and I imagine the market rate is going to be pretty high that's what I'm thinking a similar but different challenge that I'm hearing is that some of these tech companies are competing for the same talent that like the anthropics of the world or the I won't name all the names but they're competing for the same talent yeah and again like the traditional wisdom of I'm gonna go look at the comps and benchmarks and see what I should be thinking.

16:24It doesn't exist. And that's another problem that I'm hearing from people leaders. Are you hearing that as well? I am hearing that and keeping on the train of predictions here. I would assume that initially we're going to see a lot of salary inflation and things all over the board, just as we did with a large tech firm out in California, not to be named, that made mention in the headline news of paying their AI engineers exorbitant, crazy sums of money. Then there were some corrections to that. I anticipate this could go a similar path where the market is paying all kinds of different figures as we start to then norm and figure out something that's truly sustainable.

17:10There was another part of your question and I'm forgetting what you, I'm forgetting my thought. Oh, no, I was asking if, well, I was talking about how it's a similar but different challenge. You're competing for this small bucket of talent. Yes. This is where I go back to culture because whether you're an AI engineer or a manager of AI agents, ultimately we're still human beings at our core. We want to be at companies that value us, that see us, that give us the opportunity to have impact. We want to be parts of teams where we enjoy what we're doing and we laugh and we have fun together, I think that ultimately is going to win.

17:53Call me a traditionalist, but I think companies that have great cultures, even with the AI revolution and evolution, I think those are the companies that are going to retain and keep talent. So when we started the podcast back in December of 2020, I'd say from like then until, I don't know, Like end of 2022, beginning of 2023, we talked a lot about culture, talked a lot about engagement, employee experience. And then OpenAI changed it all. They released ChatGPT. Yeah. And since then, and up until like four or five months ago, all we could talk about is AI. And we're still talking about it, but I feel like the conversation has evolved.

18:39fast forward to the last few months we've talked about culture more on the podcast than we ever have yeah and so it's it's interesting to see like the pendulum swing back and forth but I think you're right like the fundamentals are still the most important thing like you can be the most AI Ford company but if everybody freaking hates working there and there's a bad culture because you're always going to have a culture like yeah whether it's good bad or okay yep and so yeah humans are going to human humans are human you can't take the human out of the human nor should you want to and so i think we're always going to find ourselves coming back to the fundamentals of do our employees feel connected to one another to our mission to what we're doing in the world do they like doing the things that they're doing are we are we touching their heart i think a lot more people should be asking themselves that question Are we touching their heart?

19:39I just had a we just did an interview with Jacob Little, who is I'm going to mess up his title. But like he's like the director of AI ops at Rivian. OK. And he was saying that he looks at everything from two lenses, from like the financial perspective and like efficiency gains. But on the other side, how is what we're doing benefiting society? Yes. Some of these decisions. Yes. And I'm starting to hear that a little bit more. Like I feel like the last like year and a half, maybe a little bit, but we were just so excited about all of the advancements that that kind of just got lost. But I think you're right.

20:15Like I think there needs to be this focus on who all is benefiting from the AI. Is it just the shareholders? If so, then maybe you should reevaluate things. And I think this is coming about partly because we as a society are getting more comfortable with AI. And as we get more comfortable, I think the natural progression is now coming back to basics around, okay, how can we use AI to advance the things that we care about to make sure we are giving back to our communities, that we're creating a difference, all of those kinds of things. So I think this is a natural, a really nice progression and evolution of AI in the US, in Europe, in Asia.

21:02It's great. I know we're getting close on time, but I wanted to ask you, for the people leaders that are listening to this episode right now, why should they be excited about this new phase that we're entering? I hear a lot of the doom and gloom side of it, like off the record, but why should we be excited about being in HR right now? Yeah, because this is the forefront of so much innovation and change. I was having this conversation with someone a few minutes ago before we sat down and we talked about how HR people teams are often laggards when it comes to change. We're often in, you know, at the caboose part of the train.

21:47And with all of these transformations taking place, with all of the rethinking, this continues to be our moment. True, I was saying a few years ago, this is our moment. Well, I mean, it feels like the last since COVID has been the moment, but it just hasn't ended. Yes. And so this is our opportunity. This is our opportunity to help our organizations and our people leverage technology and tools while also maintaining our humanity. And I can't think of any other place in an organization that holds that remit in the same ways that we do. That's exciting. It's transformative. And I think it's going to be around for a while.

22:24And circling back to the beginning of our conversation, talking about change fatigue, it's like, yes, we're feeling this change fatigue, but just take a deep breath. And shift our perspective. Change is opportunity. I mean, yes, there is change, but what is the alternative to change? If you're not growing and changing and innovating and evolving, the alternative is not one that I wish to experience. So reshift how we are thinking about change, because I think it's exciting. Nothing ever was groundbreaking that wasn't to change. And one last question. What do you believe to be true about the world of work, but you don't yet have the data to support it?

23:09What do I believe to be true of the world at work? I believe we are moving into a world where AI is just the beginning of this conversation. It's like, I know that it's like, you know what you know, you know, hopefully what you don't know. And there's a whole lot of what you don't know, you don't know. I think we are just scratching the surface. And I think living in a world where the unimaginable is happening is something that we will see in our lifetimes. And I don't know, are we teleporting? Are we like, I don't know the what of that, but I do believe that. It's going to be something we can't even imagine.

23:51Yes. I think we are just beginning. We're in the nascent phases of what I think is a very exciting journey. I love that. Well, we end every episode with one word or phrase close. What's going through your head right now? The word for me that came to mind is alive. I was going to say human, but I feel like that's copying you. I'm going to say culture. That's your advantage today. So everybody focus on your culture. Focus on your culture. Focus on what makes you feel the most alive. And remember to be human first. Well, Gianna, thank you for being a four-time guest or whatever it is and being a friend of the show and for contributing today.

24:33This was so much fun. I'm a fangirl. Love NPL. Thank you, Gianna. Thanks. For so long, HR teams have had two choices when it comes to One, manage leave internally with spreadsheets, email, and disconnected systems. Or two, just completely outsource it. Tilt is now introducing a third option. Their new in-house leave management tech gives organizations the tools they need to run leave internally while simplifying admin for HR managers and employees. So you can do things like centralize leave administration in one platform. Configure workflows and policies to match your org. Give employees and managers clear visibility throughout the leave journey and replace manual coordination.

25:16And if you still need extra help, organizations can also add access to Tilt's leave experts for guidance and ongoing support. If this sounds like something your company needs, you can learn more at hellotilt.com slash MPL. That's hellotilt.com slash MPL. Emlyn, welcome to the podcast. Oh, thank you so much. I've heard you were telling me a little bit about your HR tech experience so far. Yeah. You said kind of chaotic, but good. Yes. As a first timer being here, it is a lot to take in. A lot of exhibitors have some really great innovative ideas. And so I just try to do my best to stay grounded of like, why am I here?

25:57Here to learn. Could you be introduced to new thoughts and experiment some new ideas? So, but at the same time, it's also great connecting with people. but I do feel right it's uh three days of all this excitement it's not enough yeah agreed and it can be a little bit overwhelming right like with the casino slot machines like the lights everywhere you know I'm I'm more the person that just like enter my raffle ticket in there and if I get something out of the raffle great yeah honestly the same I it's like wallpaper to me at this point I just like walk right past it well we start every episode with something that we call good news stories.

26:37And so anything in your life that, that you want to share, it could be personal, it could be work-related. Yes. So I will share that I won my first dance competition at the age of five. I danced to the song. This is like where my age kicks in, Stayin' Alive. You know, I think it was like the Bee Gees that sang that song. And I did the exact moves of John Travolta. and this is this is recently no actually no this was at i was age five oh yeah but for let's say recently um so sorry i love that good i transitioned into my younger years um so sorry but uh let's see a good news story my flight from san antonio to here was great san antonio I'm in Austin so fellow Texans I was there for another event actually other story but yeah yes very nice to know that my good news is that this was in my mind very successful we this is our fourth interview here at the BCom booth so I'm number four you're number four out of four yeah and I just want to thank them for letting us do this podcast here this is incredible i mean we've done a lot of recordings at these conferences in the past but nothing in an official way like this it's usually like upstairs in the media room we just have our computers and like a mic and it's fun doing it scrappy that way but this feels very official and i wish we could do more in-person podcasts i think they're a lot of fun so i think you would be great if you did like little snippets where you're on the floor and you're like like man on the street yeah a man on the street and be like you know we've tried that oh yeah nobody wants to get interviewed oh really yeah people are like oh no no okay but you're you're the minority most people are like i don't want to be on camera i don't want this to be recorded so this is like a happy in between you know yeah yeah it really is it's really good and so we've been talking a lot about AI and the impact to work.

28:47I spoke with the director of AI operations at Rivian. I talked to Gianna, who's the chief people officer at One Workplace. And it feels like everyone is going through a similar exercise right now in redesigning how the work actually gets done. And so I want to start there does that ring true for you I mean I think it's like in your title but like it is in my title task and skills redesign and yeah so if you start there what is what does that mean like what's so I am the individual at USAA that basically connects the technology to the human capability. And that means is, you know, how can we identify, extract exactly what that AI capability and the value is and how it's going to translate into changing the work.

29:46And then when we talk about changing the work, now we go into the scope of, well, redesigning the task that is associated to that work because easily it's going to translate or transition into well now the employee's skills is going to be significantly different wherein they could either have a stronger development opportunity in their critical thinking, analytic, you know, measurements. I mean, the list can go on in what those are. So that's where the whole incumbent is of like what I do of tasks and skills redesign. And what would you say is the hardest thing on your plate right now? I would say the hardest thing on my plate is the confidence in the work itself, because everyone is in that state of why should we transition from traditional base to skill base?

30:45What is wrong with what we're doing today and i will say that there's nothing wrong it's just a situation where this is how the i wouldn't let me craft it a better way because i would i did what i'll be honest and transparent and vulnerable in saying this i was going to say well this is just how the industry is flowing right now right it really is but to be really more like appropriately aligned is that it is the evolution of where we are today. That's exactly how I want to have it stated is the evolution. And the reason why is because we have to be able to understand how to operate these AI tools.

31:27Just because it drops in our labs or like an AI adoption comes about and the company says, hey, you get an upgrade in your co-pilot plan. That's great and everything, But do you know how to efficiently utilize that co-pilot tool in order for you to, one, you know, have the right type of production or outcome of the product from co-pilot? And are you utilizing your time efficiently? Because it could easily save you maybe, I don't know, let's say three hours of work trying to draft up content for a particular report. but in parallel what are you doing with those other three hours that now has freed up so food for thought and so in your role are you almost like an investigator like you're going in function by function and asking these types of questions to see where there is an opportunity yeah what what does that part of your work look like like how do you identify the opportunities so this is where it comes into a state of where there is a particular business strategy So it could be a situation where a line of business comes to us and says, hey, we are planning to adopt this new AI tool.

32:45And they tell us specifically what exactly its values are. Let's say it could be improving customer service relation calls or let's say sourcing for the recruiters so they don't have to spend so much time screening an applicant resume. And then they'll ask us, well, can you help us identify exactly what type of tasks are going to change? What skills gaps do we potentially have today, may have in the future because of this? What proficiency levels do we need to be at in order for us to meet that gap or to go above and beyond and close in the gap? And that's pretty much what my focus is on. Now, when it comes to a bigger population such as an enterprise, the whole other gambit where we look at it is the whole entire employee's experience from easier time of mobility mapping, learning opportunities, having it be so innovative enough where it is equally intuitive for the employee that the employee can actually see this is the value for them.

33:54and it's not for just the organization. Because there's going to be value for everyone. That's what that AI tool should be because people should understand the difference between AI adoption and AI transformation. I can't remember if it was Gianna that said this or maybe it was Jacob who I talked to earlier, but they were talking about how at the individual level, people are more productive than they've ever been ever been before but at the organization level there hasn't been much of a change any reaction to that that statement i mean i i agree with that individually we could see the goodness right i mean i have fun i mean i we can all think of like certain GPT tools that are out there.

34:47And I have fun with mine. And I love the delivery of the content that it provides to me on certain things that I ask for it. But nonetheless, when it comes to organizations as well as leadership, when I was included leadership, I think the reason being is that there hasn't been established of exactly what is it that they're trying to solve? What is it that they're trying to identify as a success measurement because this particular AI tool is now available for their employees? And that's where there is that bigness. You don't see a lot of organizations talking about it from an internal perspective.

35:34You don't see it being marketed as much as you do from this elaborate state that we are here at HR Tech, or even from an external basis, you just don't see that. Because there is this presumption that people just know exactly how to utilize the tool. But I do think there is a value as much as a large opportunity for organizations and leaders to start identifying, listing out, like taking an inventory of other AI tools, and clearly stating, well, what does this do for us? What values has it provided? And hopefully they can do like historic, like what it was like before it showed up to create this assessment of what was work like before it existed and what is work like today and to be able to show some type of improvement.

36:27And then hopefully going forward, create some type of success measurements. That is a situation of success measurements that includes the AI technology plus their employees. I like that. What, and I get it if you don't have the metrics yet or the measurements, but you're just brainstorming, like what could some of these measurements be? So some measurements could be like the percentage of the task that the AI gets to take over. Oh, I see. And more of like the percentage of the critical thinking that the human gets to do. Kind of like if you, okay, for those who are Star Wars fans, raise your hands.

37:12That's you. Yeah, it is me. Seen it all, including the series on Disney. In case I can't give that plug. But anyway, so going forward, if we take R2-D2, right, our AI little pal, he took care of all the tasks. if you remember, while Luke Skywalker, Han Solo, and Prince Leia had more time to think, what are we going to do next? How are we going to get out of this predicament? It's usually like a life or death situation, if you recall. And I would say those are the type of things that we need to start measuring, exactly what defining of what that particular AI tool can do for us, because we can't just assume it's going to do xyz we we have to know what its full purpose is any other items that are secondary to that third fourth whatever the case is that's fine but at least hone in on what is that primary focus i'm uh i was definitely imagining scenes from star wars yeah you know like they're like garbage dumpster yeah they're in like a crazy situation and r2d2 that's the robot one not the little yeah the little scooter thingy which is the one that that walks or no c-3PO is the that one i think that's who i'm thinking of the butler yeah the butler they would go to him with these crazy situations that they were in right and he's like spitting out like according to the numbers you have a 0.0001 percent chance of survival Right.

38:44Yeah. He was the one that was basically like, what do you call it? The devil on your shoulder, you know, that kind of gave you like, was like the naysayer. Yeah. And then, you know, and Luke and everybody else was like, no, no, no, we're going to go forward. We're going to survive. Yeah. Sorry. I think it's a great metaphor. I love it. And so we're here at HR Tech. Yeah. And it sounds like you came here on a mission. what was that mission like what were the one or two big goals that you had for this week one of my goals um actually one of my many goals was to meet in person a few of our vendors that we have currently today such as light cast eightfold workday and then of course other exhibitors that are currently here to learn more about what their innovations are for this year what they have planned in the upcoming year and to try and see how can I best streamline our current tech staff.

39:48And I don't know if anyone else has ever shared that with you, but our tech staff of how it looks like right now, when I say it out loud to people, they're like, wow, that's insane. And I'm like, is it? For me, it feels normal. but apparently somewhere in this world of HR tech, there's a easier way to streamline everything. So I'm here to learn that as well. Well, shameless plug, you should check out Vcom. They're great. They do some really cool stuff on the comp side. You should do that shameless plug as you look into the... Shameless plug. You should check out Vcom. Thank you for the direction.

40:23Yeah, no worries. Okay. So you're thinking through how you can streamline your tech stack. does that mean to consolidate? Does that mean to better integrate? Does it mean both? What does that mean to you? To me, it really is about integration. I mean, I hear a lot about APIs and my favorite acronym, which I forgot what it stands for, which you could possibly tell me, but it's MCP. Oh yeah, multi... Something. I should know this, but... Shout out to the audience. Anybody. Yeah, like I know what an MCP is and what it does, but I couldn't tell you what that means. So, I mean, I'm not a tech person, so I'm learning as I go, as I get deep into the weeds of a lot of stuff.

41:10But I learned yesterday that some of our platforms now have the MCP that should be able to integrate things. But then I also learned that with our APIs, there's some governance components. So with that being said, right, when that word of governance, that's where I do ask a lot of questions, both to our current and potential vendors with regards to what does the governance shape look like? because if it's a situation where I can easily customize their tool to what my organization needs, I'm fine with us crafting that governance. Like that, that just means that we just own it a little bit better, which is fine.

41:53But then there are other vendors out there that are like, no, no, we take care of it. Then I'm like, oh, let's put a pause on it. Let's see exactly what does that mean so yeah funny story when mcps first became a thing yeah on the podcast i referred to it as the mcu oh i was like god i'm such an idiot a little bit different than an mcp but you know what you could have said that to me and i would be like oh is it mcu okay i thought i was so smart i like listened to a podcast the previous day about mcps and i thought i understood it but you're like put a little edit in that one, you know, like blurb it out.

42:31Oh, that's hilarious. I asked this question to the last guest that we had on. Why should people be excited about working either in HR or just more broadly speaking, like about work in the future? I feel like right now we're in this weird transition phase and there's some change fatigue and people are feeling a little bit burned out. But why should we feel optimistic about the future of work? The future of work is just evolving in the sense of where we will always be at the forefront to design it the way it needs to fit the current organization needs. Like that'll never go away, AI or not. I don't care what anybody says.

43:19AI will replace tasks that we do from that standpoint, but they will never take over. They will never take over the human element, which is what you're telling it, that AI tool that it needs to do, setting its standards, defining its responsibilities exactly, and then you taking on the stewardship of making sure that you are meeting what those particular goals are, like the bigger pieces of the production. because as you know, like there are some organizations that are running very lean, which I get it. And that's just part of the framework as we head into this future state of work. But at the same time that we're running lean, I also do feel that it's crafting our employees to really flex more on their knowledge and enhance it in ways that, you know, they never thought possible.

44:19So to me, it's limitless. And I can only imagine how the work's going to be. I can't prove what it's going to look like. But I do feel also there's this other unique opportunity where people in HR in this particular space of organizational design, workforce transformation, HRBPs, payroll, I mean, the whole gambit of HR. heart like don't knock it till you try it if you had never been into it if you're interested like tap into HR because we are like in my mind anyways we're the heart yeah and we're also the ones that are pumping you know that blood into the brains of our leaders and saying hey leader person you you might want to rethink that before you do this because you're missing this particular element so yeah we will always continue to be here so I like using the the metaphor of work as like a house right and traditionally like you know you'd maybe remodel your house once every 10 15 years oh no um for some people maybe it's it's every five years I don't know yeah I feel like with work it was the same like we would have these big changes but usually there was like there was an event that that forced some of that change so COVID for example forced us to embrace hybrid or remote work at the time now it feels like that's happening there's like a six-month cycle like every six months we're forced to completely reevaluate and completely redesign the house and so as somebody whose job is to think about the skills redesign is this just like a I mean And first off, I guess there's always job security in that job because you have to keep redesigning the skills.

46:08But yeah, do you get what I'm saying? Yeah, I completely hear what you're saying. It feels like a process that's never ending. Yeah. So while that is true from an external lens, when you're in it, it's different. It's a situation of where we are forced to make pivots due to the dependency we have either from like cross-functional partners like, I don't know, finance or HRIS, HRIT, whoever the case may be. There are minor pivots that we would have to make. And, you know, and I get it when it comes to like a quarterly review or a semi-annual review. Yeah, it looks like we made this huge shift, but we really didn't.

46:51And in our eyes, we really didn't. But the changes that we make is, like, I would say it depends on what those factors are. Because it could just be a situation where, you know, the tool has limitations. And we can't bend it no matter how much we want to. That little square block is not going to fit in that little star shape. You know, it's just not going to do it. So we have to pivot and look for other ways. well, if we want to move forward with this particular plan, then is it another tool that we need to have? Or is it a situation where we just have to reskill an entire population within our workforce?

47:32So, you know, depending on what the strategy is with the business outcomes that we're trying to achieve, those are always going to be those kind of pivots, but it always depends. And so that's why I wanted to stress that it always depends. But externally, I get what you're saying but internally yes there's a there's another story yeah well emma this is so much fun yeah i had fun too i didn't know what to expect one more tradition we went every episode with something called one word or phrase close so a word or a few to just put a bow on this on this conversation anything come into mind for you bedazzle bedazzle i'm gonna say dance i got your good news story i loved it yeah yeah you know i just that was so different than any good news story i've ever heard and in my head i was like staying alive and i think that's because i'm nervous yeah and i was like cool staying alive i mean i think that's like the perfect that maybe that's my my one phrase close like just stay alive people like focus on the the parts of the work that yeah that are human yeah you go yeah well thank you so much yeah i appreciate it thank you Thanks for tuning in to another episode of the Modern People Leader.

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49:06You