115 Charges & Arsenal’s Dark Arts | Heated Fan Debate!

0:00The market's uncertain. Revenue's tied and hiring on hold. That's why results-driven companies are using Upwork to keep work moving. Go to Upwork.com today and start hiring proven freelance talent fast. No bulky overhead. No rigid long-term contracts. Just the right expert right when you need them. Work smarter and faster with Upwork. Go to Upwork.com now and find your freelance expert. That's U-P-W-O-R-K.com. Post a job for free and get started today. You walk in tired and hungry. one bad dinner away from losing it. You don't like to cook. You don't want more takeout. You just want something good.

0:39That's why there's Dish by Blue Apron. Pre-made meals with at least 20 grams of protein and no artificial flavors or colors. From fridge to fork in five minutes or less. Keep the flavor. Ditch the subscription. Get 20 % off your first two orders with code APRON20. Terms and conditions apply. Visit blueapron.com slash terms for more. He's been up to some honour. You think? Come on, he's celebrated his good performance. He's not scored for such a long time and all of a sudden he comes and scores three goals in two games and he's not playing. Kind of attack City fans about this situation. You'd do exactly the same if the boot was on the other foot.

1:15No, I wouldn't. You would. I wouldn't. Hang on, you're messing. You know, you're cool. You have more managers than us and that's in the last three years. He wins the Champions League every year. You can't fake it. You can't fake little kids walking around New York with Harden on the back. That's serious. I don't think he's particularly good. I think we've got seven keepers at the club and none of them are any good. I see Ray go down in high-pressure situations. Cheating that score, Jeremy. Yeah, it is. Will we beat eight? He will beat eight. If that's the question, we'll beat eight. No, that wasn't the question.

1:39Oh, God!

1:46Welcome to the new Fan Debate brought to you by Skybet. We're delighted to be joined by fans from up and down the country and especially Martin Ziegler from The Times. He's going to join us and speak about the situation at Manchester City. But talking about Manchester City, Scolzi, We're going to start at the game at the weekend. Just want to know your thoughts on the big game, City v Arsenal. Yeah, look, it was a brilliant game. I thought City, for the first 20-25 minutes, were outstanding. Scored the goal, which you expect, Harlan to score, which we've become accustomed to. I was a little bit disappointed with the goalkeeper, to be honest with you.

2:18I thought it was a little bit easier, although the goalkeeper was great throughout the game. I thought it was a little bit easier to score. I didn't really have to bend it round him. It was a little straight pass, more than anything. and then obviously Arsenal come back into it, score the two goals and then all the control, well, it didn't happen, it happened before they're sending off, sorry, with Kyle Walker I actually thought, I was a little bit disappointed with the referee right from the off really, you think that the barge at the start I never felt like he was really in full control of the game and when he brings Kyle Walker and Saka over I do think you've got to give him time to get back in Yeah, I agree Although when Walker is running back, he does have a little word to his centre-half.

3:00I don't know if you notice that as well. Because they've been brought together to say, look, calm it down, calm everything down, he's got to give him time to get back into his position. And you could see it right from them when they took the quick free kick. I thought, well, if they score here, there's going to be a big trouble. And they clearly was. and then we get to the sending off. It was stupid. Ridiculous, really. Kicking the ball away, you just can't do it, can you? And he even could have got done for the foul, to be honest with you. Staff, yeah. Staff, wasn't it? It was a stupid foul, yeah.

3:35It was a bit of a nasty foul, really. They can hurt you into bananas. Stolz, he won. Well, no, he... HE LAUGHS He got up, so, no. The ball was never that close. No, yeah. So, anyway, you go into the second half, and obviously with ten men, the 5-4, they defended really well and City a little bit disappointed I think from City in that second half it became a little bit like shooting practice didn't it like a training session exactly it just came to the wrong man all the time and thinking how valuable would De Bruyne have been in that game you thought they'd have scored earlier I couldn't believe how long it took to bring Foden and how they couldn't get Foden in those positions that Diaz was in to get the shots off yeah and I was thinking about that midfield area, could you just set the back four off?

4:19Not so much the back four, maybe leave Kyle Walker to deal with the Martinelli pace, but there was nothing else really to deal with. So can Kovacic do that? I don't think he's great from 25 days. It's funny that, you know, when you commentate him, and I was thinking exactly the same, but because it's Pep, do you know what I mean? It's like he's just like, yeah, you're a bit like, if there was another manager, you'd probably say he's got to do this, he's got to do that. Because it's Pep, you're always a little bit like, how can I say this, I'm a Pep Guardiola, but they were my thoughts exactly as yours.

4:49But Clive, I'm going to go to you first on Arsenal's tactics and how they went about it in the second half, you know, the dark arts that we've been speaking about a lot in the last couple of days. Come on, I know you're going to defend it, you always do, so come on. They're well within their rights. I'm just going to remind you, there were two halves of football. In the first half, we came back from being 1-0 down and we had momentum towards the end of that half and we had City in their box pretty worried. We had just a last, a little bit longer to get to half time so we can see what we were going to get a proper football match what we got was an attack versus defence drill which I don't think people really wanted to see we may have got a bit more of a conclusion about how close these teams really are right so when we went to the 10 men team it becomes a it becomes a game of space how we're going to manage it and we just took the space away by just having the six four of a six three sometimes or a five for.

5:40We didn't over commit on our challenges, we delayed, we delayed. We let the idiots kick it in the car park, the ones who can't shoot, and then we got tight to the ones that can shoot. And let them do it that way. It wasn't great, well, it was a great spectacle for some people. I don't want to say it ruined the game, I think it distorted the game. We have to ask ourselves the question, do we want a game of that magnitude distorted for something so technically small? In my opinion, we don't. OK, you know when you talk about you're defending Arsenal's tactics No, I'm not defending their tactics I think that's the right way to go No, but what I'm saying is you're talking about, say players going down and there's a lot of talk I feel about because Arteta worked with Pep he's almost like a Pep disciple Do you think what we've seen in the last sort of I would say six to nine months I think you're slowly morphing into more of a Jose Mourinho type of team at times I think we've chosen a way to try to get over the line we've chosen a way to build our teams it's built from the back so a team that's built from a stable platform that's our identity maybe but we're forgetting very very quickly that people at Odegaard the football that we can play are not available but we have deferred a little bit more to the defensive side of things but why wouldn't you use your strengths why would you play in a way like we did maybe two three years ago rocked up there with a bad defence and just pressed them and got slapped with the nation's TV Why would we do that?

7:10Why don't we learn from those experiences? We're living more compact, because City are quite good at running into spaces. I tell you what, I'll just let you run through there. Why don't we just do that? But we were much smarter, much wiser, and we shouldn't apologise for trying to win. We shouldn't apologise for that. You know when you've had a bit of criticism, you defend your club in terms of time-wasting the goalkeeper was going down, someone was going down with cramp, and you defend that. But a couple of years ago, you played against Newcastle at home. I remember he was going mad at Newcastle for exactly the same thing.

7:41The difference is, though, the ball in playtime that day was very, very low. You know, Jamie, the ball in playtime was very, very high. So the game was... That was nothing to do with you. Well, I will say the people that went down with cramp, they all went off. They didn't come back on, they went off. Right, so, because they were suffering with cramp. Listen, I enjoy being a defender sometimes, we watch the game and everyone wants to play the same way. So I actually was intrigued watching this sort of attack for defence and the ball falling at Diaz. And I've seen... It reminded me of Jose Mourinho's Inter Milan going to Barcelona all those years ago and they had a man sent off early in the game.

8:19But the one thing... I've just noticed me and you've got the same trainees. Similar. Yeah. Oh, you've got the old ones. No, no. LAUGHTER Well... You don't want to go there. LAUGHTER Seriously. The one thing I would... When I mentioned the Mourinho thing, and Mourinho was always ahead of the game and trying to just gain an advantage somewhere. And there's one thing that I do notice that Arsenal do, I think, more than anyone. And I don't know if the stats back me up. I think your goalkeeper goes down a lot more than other goalkeepers in tense situations. It does, because the rule is a goalkeeper can't go off.

8:54Yeah. So that's definitely one that the coaching staff at Arsenal and that are definitely switched on probably more than anybody else. I see Ray go down. in high-pressure situations. Cheating, that's called, Jeremy. Yeah, it is, isn't it? You said that, you can have the headlines.

9:11I've seen it loads of times, watching the football I watch. You see it all the time. The keeper goes down, and all of a sudden all the ten players with the manager getting attacked. Yeah, that's what you do. Is that what you do? I'll tell you what. I think referees will see it, though, won't they? They will pick up on that sooner or later. They will if they watch this. Yeah. Well, what can they do, right? Because you can't take him off. It's actually a rule. So they can't take it off. It's time to get up. So yeah, could do. Well, listen, the Manchester City fan next to you is shaking his head.

9:40Bovee, what are your thoughts? Obviously, it's an amazing draw for us. It feels like a win for City and it feels like a loss for Arsenal. I mean, this is Arsenal Football Club. It's an institution. When I was a kid, it used to play expansive football. Arsenal and Wenger and all this stuff. Enelka, you know, Henri, all these great players. And the way they approached the game in the second half, look, you can have 10 men and obviously struggle against Man City, of course. I'm not expecting Arsenal to win the game with 10 men. Of course not. But having zero shots, six passes or something between all of them in the second half, it's embarrassing stuff.

10:08And Arsenal don't deserve to win the Premier League title if they cling on and hope that they don't get beat trying to win it. You have to go and claim the Premier League title. You can't be scared going into a Premier League title race. This Arsenal side still looks scared. They were good in the first half, of course, but they've not even won the game. So they've played negative defensive football, which is a really bad advertisement for Arteta Bo, in my opinion. The biggest games still hasn't got a win against Man City at the Etihad and they still didn't win the game. Why are you and Manchester City players getting so wound up by Arsenal?

10:37Very good. They haven't won anything. If Stoke City rock up tomorrow, they have a right to play the Tony Pulis way, or whatever they want to play, traditionally speaking, of course. This is Arsenal Football Club. There's a brand of playing. Liverpool, I think, under Jurgen Klopp, had an identity that's very similar to maybe Bill Shankly and the old kind of Liverpool side. It felt like a modern version of what Liverpool is all about. This Arsenal side, very negative, very defensive, and it still remains to be seen if the pragmatism leads to winning any silverware. They've not won anything in four years.

11:10That's a fair point. The big story coming out of the game from Manchester City's point of view is losing, arguably, I don't even think it's arguably, the best player in the world in the centre midfield position. I mean, I go back to big players missing. I think of Van Dijk at Liverpool that season. Roy Keane, I think there was one season he did his crucial. And I think Arsenal maybe won the league. I go back a long time. Baz is there. Neville Southall in the mid-80s, breaking his ankle, playing for Wales, misses that Liverpool go and win the double. I just think when you lose a huge figure, not just a great player, but everybody in the team almost hangs off them.

11:52and they're the lead, one of the top players. Do you think you can... Are you confident you can still go on and win the title without Rodri if he's out for the season? Yeah, in terms of winning the Premier League, I still think City are favourites. There's so much quality in that midfield. You can play Ilkay Gundogan there, Rico Lewis, John Stones can all fill in, Bernardo Silva and Ilkay Gundogan. Yeah, but they're not Rodri either. No, I know, but you can get through a Premier League season and City have won back-to-back Premier League titles a few years ago without a striker, before Ellie Harlan came in after Aguero left.

12:18So I'm still confident in the Premier League. I don't see enough from Liverpool. it's still an early stage for Liverpool of course Chelsea are kind of in a transition themselves and then Arsenal still couldn't beat the City side without Roger in the second half so in the Champions League it's a different debate in the Champions League it's a different debate are we favourites against Real Madrid now against Bayern Munich it's a lot, it's even the playing field massively but in the Premier League you have to back the City side with the experience against the bottom 10 to 15 sides to get maximum points with Kovacic in midfield it's still a very strong side No, I agree, but Clive, you've been away now to Villa, Man City and Tottenham.

12:53You've got seven points out of nine. Yep. And they're losing probably the most influential player in the last 12 months, along with Haaland. I mean, are you a lot more confident after the weekend that you can go on and win the league? Yeah, firstly, I think it's really sad that he's injured. Because he was speaking about this exact thing, and he's the one that suffers this. And I think it's really sad, to be honest. Because when you see the top teams, you want to see everyone play each other. I don't want to win anything without their best players there, right? If we're able to win. And so, from my angle, I think we're improving.

13:26And you can tell we're improving because the tone of this rivalry has changed. The conversation has changed. Two years ago, they were giving us players to go and try to compete. Two years, then we won the Community Shield. We over-celebrated. We over-celebrated. Sorry about that. You always do that. We over-celebrated. We were celebrating at the end of the game. But that was a big psychological moment, we in the Community Shield, because that allowed us to think, we actually can compete. Then we won the home game, no one mentions that. We 0-0 away game, Paul, you mentioned it about, if we went the other way around, I totally agree with you.

14:02If we'd have flipped it around, got the result, I think it would have been really important. And now this is the fourth time, and we've gone there, and we were in the lead with 11 men, we lost it with 10. I see us. Yeah. You know what? I'm not disappointed about the result. I'll tell you why. Because in a rivalry, you need to send a message to the opposition. And they have heard it. They have heard that we're here and we're serious, and they are now biting back because they don't like how we approached it. I don't see what the message is, though. No, no, I don't. You've gone there. You've done exactly what you did last year.

14:35Well, you've drawn a game. My point was, you need to go to these teams, you need to go to your nearest round. at some point you've got to beat them. Look, you very only did it. It was a great effort. You also said there you're improving. Look, I sat on it at the start of the season and thought Arsenal might win the league, but I've been a little bit disappointed with the start of the season, to be honest with you. Yeah, well, I think we're improving regarding playing Man City. I think we're getting better. We were showing that. It was taken away. We have to remember there were two different games here.

15:05It wasn't a game we'd have chosen to play. It was a game that we played for every stupidity, whatever you want to say about that. You know what? You say that, but I think you could have ended up like that in the second half. I think we would have done eventually, I think we would have done but we'd have had more go forward. That's the difference, we took a choice to not have the go forward. You've been poor going forward don't you think this season? You think of all the goals you scored last year and everyone's talking in the summer about getting a centre forward and hopefully like being a little bit more entertaining.

15:31You probably didn't think you needed it but I think five or six games in it feels like you are struggling, it's not quite clicking. I know you can You mentioned the older guard thing as well missing. But even when he played them first few games, I still don't think Arsenal were quite right. The stat that I saw after the game, that I still can't believe is true, Havertz didn't complete a pass in the whole game. Like, the whole game. But the first half, I didn't realise that. They're improving, though. No, I mean, that's my one thing. I agree with Scholes. I would always still say City, because I just think of me, I'd Harlan, De Bruyne, Foden, Bernardo Silva, I think of those four.

16:11And when I think of Arsenal, I think of Saka and Odegaard. And I think Havertz does a good job. I like him as a player, but I just don't think the others are... And I think you rely on set pieces that much. And listen, it's a part of the game and you're just amazing at it. I just don't think... You can't win the league on set pieces. And I just think of the Atalanta game midweek. I think you might have games in the league like that where if you don't score from a set piece, Is there enough quality that the others have? I think if you look at Arsenal, you think defensively, excellent. Midfield, OK.

16:44Up front, maybe a little bit more needed. But that's what we have. So that's it. So you build from that. You can't magic it in. So we build from that. I think last year we scored 91 goals, which are our record goals for the season. So let's see how we go. Five games in, two halves a game with ten men. Let's see how we go. Let's see how we go. OK, well, I'm still going for Man City scores here. Do you stick them at Arsenal? I think Liverpool might have something to say about it. I know you're trying to find ways that I'm not, but when I look at them, when you mentioned the forward players there, and then I look at Liverpool's forward players, I think I've got five or six.

17:19You said that to me after the game at Old Trafford, didn't you? You said I told you they were a good team. Yeah, I did, because I know you're... When it's your own team, you try and find something to be a little bit negative about, I suppose, and try and find a way to not put pressure on them. But seeing Liverpool first-hand live that day, I thought, wow, what a squad of players that is. I don't see many weaknesses. The only one we thought about was possibly Van Dijk or Canate get injured in the centre-half position. And I just see a squad of players. I see them five or six midfield players all can run.

17:54I know you're a bit worried about the number six position, but they're all great athletes. They've all got quality. Then I look at the... Any of the three of the six forwards can play. I think it's just... That, to be honest with you, the Forest... You get a bit excited here, no? Honestly, the only worry was that Forest game. That threw me. I still think we're a couple of defenders. I think the left-back area and other centre-back may be something we could look at.

18:25Speaking about the league title, we're going to go to Martin Ziegler from the Times about the situation with Manchester City and we're talking about can City, Arsenal maybe even Liverpool win the league title I mean what do you think about the 115 charges Martin and Tim do you think that could have an effect on the league title this season? Well it definitely could I think we're talking probably the biggest sports case in the history of English sport I can't think of anything else which rivals it it's going to have potentially a massive impact on not just the Premier League but on European football because if Manchester City are found guilty of the majority of the alleged 115 breaches then it's looking very very serious indeed we've seen that the scale of points deduction for a single breach of financial rules for Everton and Nottingham Forest if there's going to be multiple rule breaches proven against Manchester City you know what can that mean I think it would have to mean massive points seductions or relegation.

19:28And if that happens, obviously, then that's going to have a massive impact on the Premier League this season. I saw a Pep Guardiola quote the other day when he said, you know, the rest of the Premier League is almost desperate for this to happen. I mean, have you got any sort of insight in what the other clubs of their role in this, are they putting pressure on the Premier League? Are they wanting answers? Are they involved in, not involved, but are they almost putting pressure on the Premier League to sort of really come hard on City? I don't think that they have that sort of, that level of involvement.

20:00But I do think perhaps there was an expectation when the allegations first surfaced, I mean, we're talking 2018 a long time ago, that this needed to be properly investigated. And I think that the other clubs put pressure on the Premier League then to do something and to investigate. so there is a sort of expectation that the process is done properly and that's why you know we're going to have probably we don't know who's sitting on the panel but it's very likely to be retired high court judges very senior level judges because it's such an important case for English sport. Do you think the Premier League have got the legal team to compete with Manchester City we know the funds that they have and you've obviously got the situation with Leicester I I think a couple of weeks ago, would it look like the Premier League had been done by Leicester or their QC, whoever that was.

20:51Do you think the Premier League have got the team, if you like, to go up against Manchester City? Well, it looks like it. They've got actually the leading barrister from the Premier League, Adam Lewis, is actually from the same chambers as Lord Panic, who's representing the Manchester City in the case. So it's the sort of same level of barristers. they've both got big expensive London law firms working on the case so I think it's evenly matched as far as that's concerned. Boovey what are your thoughts I mean is it is how worried are you I mean do you think it would diminish what Manchester City have done in the past if this case goes against them?

21:32Obviously it would diminish it it wouldn't diminish my experience as a football fan seeing City win Champions Leagues and Premier Leagues it's been an unbelievable last 10 years ultimately until we have an actual verdict I think the way we treat City fans in this regard I think is completely out of order I've been doing podcasts and live streams and TV and all sorts never met a single lawyer that knows anything about this case until the case is done that's when you can judge City fans and the club until we get there the club is innocent until proven guilty and obviously it's a disastrous day for English football if the club is found guilty but at the moment the club is innocent until proven guilty that's the foundation of law in this country I just don't like the way other football fans persecute and kind of attack City fans about this situation.

22:15You'd do exactly the same if the boot was on the other foot. No, I wouldn't. You would! I wouldn't. So Manchester City have got these different type of fans who wouldn't attack Man United or Liverpool if they were in the same situation. But United have ran in debt. United have ran terribly. I don't like United. If United lost 10-0 tomorrow, I'd love it. Whoa, whoa, whoa. But as an institution, you want your guys to be in the Premier League doing well. Why would it be disastrous for football if you got caught? Because we're the second highest Premier League title winning side in Premier League history behind Man United.

22:42Because of the fact that you cheated? You don't know that. Are you a lawyer? What degree have you got? No, but seriously, it's like Celtic and Rangers. When Rangers got relegated, and I know it's different circumstances, but Celtic needed Rangers in the Scottish Premier League. I'm not saying we're Rangers or Celtic, we're not the same level, but you have to respect the institution of football clubs. Man City isn't as big as Liverpool, Arsenal, Man United. You don't expect the rules. The way United are getting run, it's embarrassing. What's United got to do with it? It's an example. Surely it would be in the team of football if justice is brought.

23:13The owners of Man City are the best owners in world football right now. Until they're proven guilty, they are. That's what sports washing is called. Well, if you're chucking off money at it, then you get people like yourself who go, actually, it doesn't seem anything wrong with this, because they're really nice and they've made the surrounding area look good. But that's sports washing. I think in an ideal world, you're right, they probably are the best. But there's regulations you've got to keep to... Yeah, but do you know we've broken those regulations? No. But it's highly likely. But all I'm saying is it's fair to expect City fans to wait until there's a verdict.

23:45Is that not fair? It's the basis of law in this country. I don't think it would be a disaster for English football. It would be a massive disaster for the integrity of the league, for the way the Premier League comes about. You'd have to see a Premier League side who'd won eight Premier League titles get relegated. For the fundamental notion of what Premier League football is all about and the integrity of the sport in this country, of course it'd be terrible. I'm sitting at the league. It'd be your integrity. It'd be terrible for the club as well. I'm not saying it's not terrible for the club, but if English football has Man City ripped out...

24:18Because you've only got to where you are now. You might not like Man City, granted. We might not be as big as Nottingham Forest. Fine, but we're still a big football club with a lot of history, won multiple league titles before the takeover. This idea that City is this kind of completely new club founded in 2010, it's embarrassing. It says a lack of understanding from football fans around the world. Surely as a fan of the club, though, you should want your club to be run in the right manner. And abiding by the rules is part of that. If your club then gets demoted to League One, why would you be happy with the only...

24:48I'm not happy with that. I said that, didn't I? Shouldn't you be unhappy with them for kind of putting you in this position? I would be. And the Premier League have to act. They've already kind of let a couple of state-owned clubs happen. And if they don't punish City for this, then you're just going to have Newcastle just doing what they want. And you're going to have all sorts going on. So they have to kind of act, although it's a little bit too late, because they should have seen it coming when they allowed state on clubs. That's why I never wanted... Well, the club only went under before, so basically you're saying you want City to go out of business versus Sheikh Mansour coming in.

25:15You can debate the integrity of Sheikh Mansour. That's your opinion. You know me, I'm never going to judge your opinion. But he came in and saved the football club and made it into one of the most profitable businesses, and it rejuvenated the area of Manchester. That's one of the questions? That's huge. Is it one of the most profitable businesses? It is. It helps when you can get highly inflated sponsorship deals. No, that's just not... Oh, Boobie, listen, that's the situation where you talk about profitable business. I mean, you're sponsoring yourself, that's where the charges come from. City sold£400 million worth of academy talent, and that's four years.

25:42I know, but you... But that's not what you've been charged for the last four years. No, no, look, that's the difference, though. You can't say we're not well-rocked. Listen, Manchester City got an owner, and if we're all being totally honest, at that time, we all wanted that owner for our club and come in, who's got money, take us, Man City, you know, I can see Baz, Northern, that's what you wanted for years, to take your club to a level that you probably haven't been for a long time. City weren't one of the teams competing. I understand what you're saying. In the 60s and 70s, you were at your top club winning trophies.

26:10So we would have all wanted that. But the idea, when I see teams who bring the most money in, and I see Man City above Real Madrid and Barcelona, Man United, that is just nonsense. I don't care how successful you are, that can't happen. It's impossible. You're right. You know when we signed Rabinu? There's no way. You're right. You're right about that. But now we've won Premierly titles, you get extra income. I know, I know. I was in New York a few months ago. How can you be above Rayon of the year? You win the Champions League every year. You can't fake it. You can't fake little kids walking around New York with Harden on the back.

26:42I'll be a... If you've won the league eight years in a row, you're going to get little kids in New York. Yeah, so all I'm saying is there's a level of sporting excellence that has been achieved on the pitch. And you can debate if Rabinio... But how has it been achieved? That's the question. How has it been achieved? Yeah, we can debate that. You've got your opinion, I've got mine. But ultimately, the way we lambast City fans, I think it's embarrassing for football culture in this country. It's because City fans are twerking for a state-owned club. I just sit here and... That's literally... City fans are twerking for them and it's like...

27:08Boovey, give us a twerk. I got my jeans. I got my jeans. Right, Chloe, Liverpool. I mean, when you think... Listen, I know you got involved there with Boovey. I mean, what's your feeling as a Liverpool fan? Because it's probably Liverpool, probably more than most in the club area have probably missed out on maybe winning the biggest trophies if City are to be proven guilty? I don't back the Premier League enough, to be honest. Maybe I'm just not as optimistic as other people, but I just feel like City or something will get away with it. And it would be really annoying. I think that the Premier League have to order the highest consequences that's possible to stop it from happening again.

27:52It'll be annoying. It's not going to turn back timing and give us the Premier League because I don't, you know, you can give me them but I'm not going to be able to celebrate them because I wasn't at the time. So it's one of them where I think if all of them do, well, however of them come through as, you know, cheating, then you've got to look back and think, my God, Jürgen Klopp somehow competed with that team and went toe-to-toe with that team and it was against the team that's cheated for the past 10 years to get to where they are. So it wouldn't do anything for me now if they took the titles off them, boss and, you know, avoided the season I love boss but in terms of giving anything to me I just want them to face the consequences because of how they've managed to grow because of it all OK, let's talk about Liverpool right now how worried are you about the contract situation with Van Dijk, Salah and for me, more importantly, Trent Alexander-Arnold Yeah, I'm more worried about Trent Trent's the one that you've got to get on first He's your potential captain for the next eight years.

28:55He's one of the world's best in his position. And it is worrying because we've let them get this far down in their contract. Virgil van Dijk and Salah have been outspoken about it. And it feels like they've put it on the toes of Liverpool. And I can imagine that Liverpool are going to have to do something. Otherwise, the fan base isn't going to be that happy. OK, that's interesting that you said the fan base won't be happy. As a Liverpool fan, who would you be disappointed with? the club or the players for not maybe showing loyalty or signing contracts? Well, it depends because Mo Salah came out at United and basically said no one's spoken to me and I'd like to stay at the club.

29:32But as of right now, I will be leaving at the end. And if he, I mean, the last couple of games, he's not been at his greatest. But if he plays the rest of the season, the way he started the season, then I think we'd be ludicrous to sell, to get rid of Mo Salah for free. Do you believe that? and do you think Mo Salah was not, was that not almost like a negotiating tactic? I don't know because none of them have been spoken to. How do you know? Well, I just, I assume, to be honest. I mean, Verge told us after the game that nothing's happened with it. I don't, I'm worried in terms of, I obviously understand that Real Madrid is one of the end goals for a lot of players and trying could go over there.

30:13And he mentioned titles the other day when he spoke in his interview when titles are very important. Go to Real Madrid and you'll probably win absolutely everything that there is to offer over there. We're with Liverpool right now. I think we can challenge, but it is a lot harder, it seems. So I'm worried about that. But in terms of Liverpool, Michael Edwards is back there and I backed Michael Edwards and I hated the fact that he left. So I'm going to put my trust in the club to get it done because I feel like they've done it time and time again. But if we do let some of these players go for free, it will feel like a soccer point.

30:48They must have spoken, sorry, Jim, they must have spoken, surely, between the club and players. Would you feel any different about, I said on another show that we did, that I think, from my experience and Liverpool fans, they would look at the situation of Virgil van Dijk and Mo Salah differently to Trent Alexander-Arnold because he's a local player. Do you feel that? Yeah, I think Trent came out and said he wants to be the captain of the football club and also look, Trent Trent's a lot younger than the rest of them and he can play for the next 8-10 years and be at the highest level, he's a scouser so you want him in your team, he'll fight for the badge and even though anyone who comes from abroad will still love the club, it is different to have a scouser in your team who's supported and grew up being that Liverpool fan and watching Stephen Gerrard as his idol to then go and play for us, so I think they will treat it differently but I think it's an accumulation of things and most importantly the fact that he's so much younger than the other two and he is one of the world's best and will continue to be that for the next eight years.

31:53Okay, Anne Slott, last question what are your feelings? You were a little bit, last time I spoke to you I think you were a little bit undecided. No, I'm fully brought into him. I've always been brought into him. He's forgot about Jürgen already. Yeah, he's not about Jürgen. He's been shooked. No, whoever it was who was coming in after Jürgen Klopp I think as a Liverpool fan, you've got to buy into them and see what the philosophy is and I'm enjoying the philosophy so far. Obviously losing to Nottingham Forest, it wasn't, it was a reminder of just how new this all is because you start the season and you play the way we did against Manchester United, you saw positives in the Ipswich game, so it was just a little reminder that actually there will be teething problems, there'll be little mishaps here and there, but I like him as a person, he doesn't care about the media nonsense, he's focused on trying to win games of football.

32:42And I like how he speaks about, you know, the crowd, the fans. So I'm fully on board with Onslaught and his style of play. It's not as high-paced and high-tempo as Jürgen Klopp. But at the same time, if that helps us keep more solid at the back and helps us nick games, maybe 1-2-0, then really that's all that matters. Adam, Manchester United. I mean, I mean, no, but was it frustrating the weekend? Because you actually played really well. I thought we were really good on Saturday or whenever it was. I thought he played really well. Apart from the last 20 minutes where I thought he got his substitutions wrong, whether they were because of fitness issues at the start of the season, people can't finish 90 minutes.

33:19But I thought Joshua Zerksi, despite the fact he's missed a fair few big chances since he's come to United, I think his all-round play, his link-up play and bringing others in with him has been really good. I think he played a really good pass to Bruno, which was a simple one, but it's something that Rasmus Hoyland doesn't really do when he plays up front, bringing others in. So I thought there were good signs in that first half, but ultimately we dropped two points and we didn't get the result, despite the fact it could have been three or four at half-time. But I am weirdly more confident after that game.

33:50Weirdly. I am an optimist and I'm the Ying to Scolzi's Yang a little bit. But the football, the Litt and Lissandro Martinez, I think that partnership could build into something. I think De Ligt's shown big physical presence, good leader, good on the ball, decent threat in the opposition's box as well. I think Masraoui's been a really good deal for us at 13, 14 million, I think it was. He looks good. And I think we've just got to get the balance right in the midfield. So, like Scosa, we need someone to control it, but we also need to get Ugarte in. You know, we need to get Kobe playing well. I mean, what was the hold up there, you know, in terms of not getting...

34:29I mean, listen, I don't know. Wouldn't you want to get him in as quickly as possible? I think maybe because he joined, he didn't play the first game, he went on the international break, and then he must have come back from South America. He came for the Liverpool game, didn't he? Yeah. Announced on a pitch Liverpool game, and he's obviously gone away with Uruguay. And with them South Americans, it's like an international break, they don't come back till a Friday sometimes. I think they played... Play half 12 on the Friday at Southampton... On the Saturday at Southampton. But I think Tanag's a bit like that.

34:56When he's a new player, he seems to take a little bit of time to bring him in. He thought it was Casemiro, didn't he? Remember when Casemiro first came? He was on the bench. Well, De Ligt was the same as well, wasn't he? I think because Maguire had a good pre-season and he played a lot and De Ligt didn't have much of one, I think he went with that for years. He couldn't wait to get De Ligt instead of Maguire. Yeah, I mean, Norbert Guy. He was just waiting for the opportunity. And look, in all honesty, I'm not sure it's that much of an upgrade. I think you said... Oh, it is. It is, Scolese. It is.

35:26Maguire turns like a lorry, man. Like, he's got the turning circle of a lorry. He's not really on the ball. Who's De Lick played against? But he's still a lot better of a player. He didn't need to play this season for me to know he's a better player than Harry Maguire. He could go Southampton, innit? I think Maguire would have been fine against Southampton, wouldn't he? Maybe, but De Lick's just a better player. There's nothing that can convince me that Maguire's better anymore. He might be slightly better, but it's not a massive improvement where you think, wow, is it? I think it is. You're looking at a player that thinks he belongs in the United shirt.

35:58I think... Maguire don't. United are struggling forward-wise, aren't they? They're struggling for goals this year. They scored five goals, three of them. We've missed so many. I think chances missed. I think we've missed like 17 and the closest to us is 12. That probably tells him forwards maybe just aren't good enough. Leaving Rashford out on Saturday was... It was a strange one, weren't you? Yeah, he's been up to some, I don't know. You think? Come on, he's... Celebrated his good... He's not at good work for such a long time and all of a sudden he comes and scores three goals in two games and he's not playing.

36:28He said it was rotation. Come on, do me a favour. Garnaccio deserved a start though. I know maybe you could have started both of them, but I think Garnaccio did deserve a start. He's showing. Do you know what? I think Garnaccio is alright. I think he is a threat, but he's not that end article, is he? And I don't think we've got that finished article in any of the forward areas. In any of them. Apart from Marcus, who's had a tough time. We've obviously got Bruno. Bruno will score your goals, don't get me wrong. I just don't think they've got the centre forwards. I think Diallo, again, is a little bit like Garnaccio.

36:58He's a little bit behind Garnaccio, I'd say. But he's got a potential. We're all very raw, isn't it? We're all very raw, yeah. And too much potential along the front line. You think of Hoyland last year, again, it's potential. I'm not looking at him thinking, wow, we've got a centre forward here, 25, 30 goals. I'm not thinking that. Xerxes come into it. I agree with you, he does bring people into play a lot more than Hoyland does. but he's did that massive goal threat there and he had a couple of chances against Liverpool in which the keeper saved and I just think then as a midfield player can we be a bit overcritical on our midfield players when you think what's ahead of you, do you know what I mean?

37:36If I was in the Liverpool team in midfield I'd be thinking, well, I've got proper forwards here who are going to win his games of football If I'm in the midfield for Man Utd, I'm looking forward not quite sure, possibly Bruni, possibly Marcus, if he's got his confidence. The rest of them, I'm just not quite sure about. I'm positive about them. I think you're right. I'm not negative about them because I don't think they're at the time where they finish sides. They're still young players. They need those experienced heads around them. Maybe you need an experienced striker. But I think... Where are we going to finish in the league?

38:09Sorry? Where are we going to finish in the league? Oh, don't do this to me, man. Will we be eighth? You'll be eighth. If that's the question, we'll be eighth. No, that wasn't a question. I can answer that one. I'll be optimistic and say four. I know you're saying it, you don't believe it. It's going to be difficult. It's going to be difficult. But I think we showed some signs on Sunday. They will get better, don't get me wrong. Once he guards, he might improve stuff, but he'll improve legs and he'll try and get around the pitch. But I still think... I go back to what you said at the start of the season.

38:46He's at Man Utd and it's sort of stuck in my head. And it's maybe one of the reasons why I think he might be playing Ericsson. You kept going back to not having this holding with almost someone to control the game. Basically, someone like you said, but someone to actually get on the ball, be in that position, actually control the games. It's just, it's always been end-to-end. Well, I think that has happened the last couple of weeks. You haven't got a little bit better since Ericsson's come into the team. In them first two or three games, he didn't play and they were all over the place. I think Ericsson does bring still that little bit of control.

39:16Can't play every week, can he? Just probably can't play a full 90 minutes and can't play every week, so still, within that, there's a problem now.

39:31You open the fridge, there's nothing there. So what's it going to be? Greasy pizza? Sad drive-thru burgers? Dish by Blue Apron is for nights like that. These are the pre-made meals of your dreams. At least 20 grams of protein, no artificial flavors or colors, no chopping, no cleanup, no guilt. Keep the flavor. Ditch the subscription. Get 20 % off your first two orders with code APRON20. Terms and conditions apply. Visit blueapron.com slash terms for more. The market's uncertain. Revenue's tied and hiring on hold. That's why results-driven companies are using Upwork to keep work moving. Go to Upwork.com today and start hiring proven freelance talent fast.

40:14No bulky overhead. No rigid long-term contracts. Just the right expert right when you need them. Work smarter and faster with Upwork. Go to Upwork.com now and find your freelance expert. That's U-P-W-O-R-K.com. Post a job for free and get started today.

40:34Right, Rory, let's get to Chelsea. Chelsea, I must say, they've surprised me a lot. I think especially in the away games. You know them type of results where you haven't watched the game and then someone tells you, like, Wolves away, and you go, wow. And West Ham was pretty similar, where you're thinking, it feels like a really big result. Because I just didn't have you anywhere near the top four at the start of the season. I thought you could really challenge for it. But it looks like now, I think you could... Yeah, I think you're onto something. It's a very interesting experiment, almost, what's going on at Chelsea.

41:03I wasn't particularly into Enzo Moresca. and now we've got to a stage where, aside from the opening day against Man City, where we got beat, we're unbeaten. And in principle, that sounds great. You mentioned the away games, you talk about that statement result of Molineux, you look at the very good result of West Ham United and again, you start thinking, is something going on? But as soon as you look slightly beneath the surface, so for example, the teams that we haven't lost to, they're all in the bottom eight. It's not quite what it looks like, I don't think. You'd have lost those games last year.

41:32That's possible, that's possible, but it doesn't feel as good as it looks, I think. You still think there's still a little bit early to something? Yeah, so West Ham United, look, Chelsea and West Ham have a huge rivalry. It's a big result for us. We have a terrible record going over to that ground. They've lost three games at home for the first time in their history and we're part of that. But I just wonder quite how much of a statement it is. I think what the results have done is they've almost just calmed the off-the-field talk as much because they just felt like Chelsea were a topical every time we was on TV we were talking about Chelsea and it was more the off the field stuff and I think results just helped that massively in terms of just calming everything down I actually think Mareska spoke quite well in the press conferences at times you know he's had difficult situations Raheem Sterling early on in the season I think he explained something really well about how many players he had and who was going to play in each position and where he was going to do that but when you actually look at the squad's goals you actually see there was a game I don't remember what it was I watched Chelsea maybe a week or two ago it was Bournemouth yeah and the they played us off the park they played us off the park listen you were lucky to win it but that can happen but the thing that made me think the players you were bringing on sub it was like they were like players who should be now I don't know further down the line if that's going to be a problem because I think that quality of player on the bench can be a problem but it was like Felix come on Nessel come on Sancho yeah and it was like wow they have got when we did the first one We were saying Mureska is going to be the first one gone.

43:03And like Jamie says, I think these results have almost calmed things down a bit for him. And there is a... You look at the squad, there's a lot of talent. There's a lot of really good players. Just a little bit worried about the centre-forward, to be honest. But again, did he score two? Yeah, he's scored four now. Nicholas Jackson really is finding form. I'm worried about the keeper a little bit. I am. I don't think he's particularly good. I think we've got seven keepers at the club and none of them are any good. But he had the game in his back. It's like you say about the fixtures, I think you won't be able to judge Chelsea until we get into November, December, then you'll get a better idea.

43:37When you look at the fixtures and the points that we've accrued and even the run that we're on, aside from Man City, who beat us opening day at Stamford Bridge, they're all games that you would expect us to win against teams that are struggling. Now, there is something... City beat you really well as well. Pardon? City beat you comfortably. Oh, yeah, we couldn't get a ball. You know, Kovacic driving through the heart of our midfield. It was almost symbolic, wasn't it? Kovacic left, we've spent all this money, a quarter of a billion quid on two midfielders, and it's Kovacic who drives through the heart of the midfield.

44:04But I do think there's something in what Chloe said, where those games last season would have been defeats. So, perhaps. But what was the feeling with the Chelsea supporters in that sort of moving on from Pochettino? I know there's always that Tottenham thing there in the back of your mind, but the way the season finished and Mureska coming in, is it still... I think looking back, I was never a particular disciple of Mauricio Pochettino. I remember your interview after the Carlin Carabao Cup final. Yeah, he felt far too Tottenham for me. I don't think he should have ever been given the job. But the fact that he was given the job, he found a winning formula.

44:39Towards the end of last season, we went on a really good run. We played some beautiful football. We battered West Ham at home, battered Tottenham, battered Everton. And it was good. The football being played was really good. And then they sacked him. And the reason they sacked him was principle. You know, Trevor Chalabert came into the team. He obviously was the best centre-half at the club. They insisted on getting rid of him. Pochettino was a man of principle. He said no. Conor Gallagher, he's gone off to Atletico Madrid to play for Simeone in the Champions League while we're in the Conference League with a championship manager in Maresca.

45:10Pochettino went up massively in my estimation because he was true to his principle, whereas Maresca's come in. And effectively, he's done everything that the board and the ownership of the club want him to do. Rory, cheer up. I agree, but it's coming from you. It could be worse.

45:30Martin,

45:37I want to bring you in because, you know, obviously you've spoke about the Manchester City situation. And I think most people in here can't get their heads around what's going on at Chelsea and who they buy. I mean, is that something that's going to crop up in the next year or so that maybe Chelsea are in a situation like certain clubs are with PSR? I mean, are they cleverer than everybody else? Have they found the loopholes that no one else has seen before and found a way around everything? Well, they have done so far. I mean, selling hotels to themselves, selling the women's team to themselves.

46:12I mean, we're talking something, I think 76 million for the hotels and probably tens of millions for the women's team if that gets signed off by the Premier League. So, yeah, they have done so, so far. What they won't do is be able to get past UEFA's financial fair play because UEFA won't accept that, selling assets to yourself. So I think they will have challenges, certainly with European financial fair play. That could have an impact for European competition next season. But they have been very, very clever. and the Premier League have had the chance to close those loopholes, they haven't done so.

46:53Talking about ownership, that's why Baz has got a big smile on his face. The news yesterday with the situation for Everton, I mean, how much of a relief is that for you? Yeah, well, it isn't done yet, is it? It looks like it's done. No, of course, there's been too much uncertainty for a while. It feels like the club has just been put on hold. Everything that the club's been put on hold, while they tried to sell it. It was a year ago that this announcement came out about 777 and there we are a year later talking about the next one and there's been one in between. So until it's fully signed off, it's still evident that something could happen.

47:31But it feels a lot calmer with this group who, of course, two months ago looked like they were getting it and then done what they did with Roma, said no and then kept one eye on it and come back and bought it. So it is good news and people do feel a lot calmer today, certainly. Martin, Baz has mentioned 777. That was 12 months ago. Is this a much better proposition what Everton potentially could have in terms of ownership right now? Yeah, I think Everton have dodged several bullets, actually. The Cominsugi group, 777, if you look into their financial background, that they're not the sort of owners that most Everton fans would want, in my opinion, because they don't have the financial wherewithal to actually take the club on.

48:20I think the Friedkin group is different. They are very, very rich. They own Roma. So I think for Everton, this is the best outcome and there should be a lot of relief when this goes through. Bas, getting back to the football, it's obviously been a really poor start. I mean, there's a lot of... Listen, I know sort of the fan base in terms of, you know, you see it on social media, the local papers. I mean, is there a 50-50 split now in terms of where most people are on Sean Dyche? Or do the majority Everton fans still want him to stay in the job and think he's still the right man to keep Everton in the Premier League?

49:00I'm not going to call him out as if it's a 50-50. I don't know people. you hear lots of people who want change. The big problem is we've got exactly the same start we had last year. We've got one point from 15, which is... If that happens two years on the run, you have to ask questions. The big thing for me is Everton have won five games of football in the Premier League since December 16th, and it's September. That, to me, and three of them are in six days. So it tells you... You know what I mean? It tells you... It had a couple months off, though, as well. Exactly. Well, yeah, but even... I think it's 31 games, and we've won five.

49:33that's not a good record by anyone so i think there's he's still got a lot of support from people who recognize that it's being difficult but i think if you i think your job as a coach is to take whatever you're given and run with it yeah everton has been a difficult place to manage he's done it with dignity he's been the only one speaking at times but i'm looking at the football side of it and the football side it's a results business you know marco silver lost three games on the run and was sacked by far atmosphere in the past all the managers have had sort of better records and being changed so it sort of fits in with the other thing i said before the clubbers because of the stadium when we appointed benita as your mate um you know i think at that i think at that time it was very much just trying keep doesn't matter where they finish trying just keep them in the premier league while they get the ground sorted that's all coming to the end now and obviously the ownership will help that.

50:26So for Sean Dyke, he's got to win football matches. There's a huge game at the weekend that Goddard and Palace at home. Got to win. Yeah, no, I get that. I've got friends and family who go to the game. And when you talk about, well, maybe we need to change the manager. I think Sean Dyke's done a really good job from when he's come in, where they are now, stabilised. They would have finished not far off mid-table last season if the points deductions weren't there. Another poor start to the season. But normally when you bring in a manager to keep you in the league, it's that type of manager you know clean sheets make it difficult it's hard to beat now I understand the results have been really poor and I know the football is not amazing but when people talk about changing Sean Dyche now I don't quite see that I see Everton in a new stadium with a new ownership with a new manager next season I do see that but I don't think they should be thinking about changing the manager this season in terms of like that would and someone else would keep it in the Premier League I still think Sean Dyche should be able to navigate that yeah listen it's a full season isn't it and you're right we're out the point we had two points deductions they've been for four months lost the first four home games and still finished level points at Brighton last year you know and things like that which would have been mid-table but I think sometimes you have to look at the whole thing of where the results have gone now I've got no doubt if he stays I haven't changed my thoughts of when I was on here after Brighton Everton will finish between 11th and 14th that's where they'll finish Saturday we could have been out of sight before we let Leicester equalise now So, what you said before, Paul, about your front play is good enough to kill team off.

51:57Well, that's what it comes down to. Bournemouth, the game has shown up and the manager's subs, in my opinion. Cost Everton the game that day, it was a hot day. Villa, you were there listening to your commentary of Villa. There's more in this team, I think, than just going, well, you have all the ball and we'll sit on the edge of our box and try and keep it out. Because, you know, we've talked about that, that you're a bit critical on Arsenal before doing that. I think to do that at Man City is really difficult so they should be applauded for what they did there. But for Everton, I think we're a better team than just going, you have all the ball and we'll sit.

52:31Because when you play that type of football, you've got to be perfect when them opportunities come there. A corner or a free kick. Can't rely on that to be your main source of goals. I just think we haven't kept a clean sheet yet in the Premier League. I know Brantwight coming back will help that. But if we're putting all our eggs in Jarrod Brantwight's basket for us to keep clean sheets. He's got bigger issues than what we think. So I still think Everton will be OK. He will help though, won't he? He will help. He will help. Oh, he'll help massively because he can play out. I always think about teams that are in them bottom areas of the league.

53:04If you can't score goals, you're knackered. I just think Everton will be fine because you've shown you can score goals. OK, you have let a few in that you probably shouldn't have done and had good leads in games and messed up and lost points, but I always think you've got a chance if you've got goals. You think of teams like Southampton, I don't see where goals are coming. Ipswich, I thought, actually would score more goals. OK, they've had a tough start to the season and only scored two goals or something, I think. So I always think you've got a chance. Sean Dyche, he's an experienced man. I think if they do stick with him, then, yeah, 100 % think they'll stay in the league and I probably agree with you, the 11th or 14th.

53:46But with these new owners coming in, we've just seen what they've done at Roma. Yeah. I think they can be quite ruthless and to get rid of a hero, really, De Rossi, after four games, you wonder whether they will stick with it. New owners, they change their managers all the time. Not always. Whether it... No. Well, hang on, you're messing with it. You know, your club, you've had more managers than us and that's in the last three years. I think eventually they'll want their own person. How soon that happens, it's up to the manager. He's got to start winning games. And then it can't... Might be De Rossi.

54:22Do it? Might be De Rossi. It might be. He did look like he was out of... That's a play. He played against Everton in pre-season and he looked like he'd stepped out of Wade Schmitz, the rig out he had on that day, so we'll see. But, yeah, I think we'll be all right. Well, I always think a model for Everton and the future going forward, you think you could get back to where you maybe want to be as Luke sitting next to you in terms of... But Luke's the model for Everton. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But, you know, what Aston Villa have done over the last couple of years. It's funny because I start every season and I think Villa can't do the same again.

54:54And then they start the season again and it's like brilliant. I never put them in the top four. Emery's unbelievable. People talk and dance. He's a tremendous man. No, but you could argue, and I've said this, that besides Pep, he's probably the next best manager. Because he's one more, you know, you think of maybe Arteta and maybe Slott or different managers in the league. but he's actually had big success. You know, the European trophies, he's won at lots of different teams. So, obviously, the manager's a huge part of that. I mean, what are your feelings on the start of the season? Is this what you'd expect now?

55:27Yeah, it is what I expected. It's sort of, like, followed on from last season, but I think there's a maturity about us now. And I look at that game that we played in the Champions League. Yeah, it was against young boys. It was an unartificial pitch, but we really showed maturity to manage that game. and I think it stemmed from the Europa Conference League last year giving us that sort of experience. Even this season, we've got off to a great start. We beat West Ham away. We've won our two away games. We've won three in a row at home. Played Arsenal. I think we were more than capable of getting something from that game as well.

56:01So it showed that the teams that we should be beating, we are beating. A team like Arsenal, we can compete with them. We can give anybody a game in this league. and I think Emery this season is really utilising the squad. He's like a squad master. You know, last two games we've been down at half-time. He's brought on changes. Ross Barkley is like, for me, the best pound-for-pound signing this summer because what he's doing for our team when we need him for, say, a 30-minute spell, he's just bossing the game completely. We've got Mattson who we signed in the summer, can't get on the pitch. We've got Durran who's just scoring bangers galore.

56:37and yeah, we're just doing amazing. Onana, we spoke about what his influence would be to us and it's been massive, you know, set pieces were brilliant. I think, you know, Arsenal's set piece coach is great but Fiat Villa needs credit because we're scoring goals, we're looking dangerous, we're creative and Emery, he's just a genius, you know. That's where we are in football now. Fans are getting frustrated that their set piece coach isn't getting enough credit. Yeah, but he's amazing, you know, We're scoring goals. He's utilising O 'Nana. He's got a weapon with O 'Nana there. Even if it's not directed at O 'Nana, he's setting a little trap for him.

57:13And then, you know, he scored a great one against Leicester. So, I just think we're in a really good place. And I think we're going to be competing where we were last year. And as things stand, I think we could probably finish a bit higher. I think if you replicated last year, you'd be delighted to get all that. But I always think of this sort of Emory time. how important are the domestic cups in terms of actually winning a trophy something to look back on in 10 years time European trips with your mates and I get all that and we'd have said Villa did brilliantly but even just lifting an FA Cup you know that moment at Wembley for the players that you can all look back on the team can get together 10, 20 years later how important is that for you to get a trophy?

57:53I think for a fan it's massive we haven't won something since 1996 so I want to see us lift a trophy but Emery talks about the Premier League. That is the biggest thing for Emery. He just wants to finish as high as we can in that consecutively, which then brings Europe. And I think for Villa fans, it's just been in Europe. I think we're playing Wickham tonight and I think he's going to change the squad completely. And I think if we can get through to the later stages and then he can play his full-strength team, then he'll probably start taking it serious. But I think, for me, I just want to keep competing at the top end of the Premier League for now.

58:30You're talking about domestic cups in Europe, so that brings fixture congestion. Martin, I want to go to you on the back of that. There's been a lot of talk in the last couple of weeks and players, specifically Rodri, coming out and talking about the demands on players and they just feel it's too much, basically. I mean, how much of a problem is this for... or is the disconnect between the players and the governing bodies in terms of FIFA and UEFA in terms of new competitions coming out? Can you see this coming to a head and something happening over this? Yeah, absolutely. I think it's a growing problem for FIFA.

59:06We had this legal challenge lodged in the European courts by the PFA and the International Players Union. But I think the fact we've now seen players speaking out about it, I mean, Rodri, Bernardo Silva, both at Manchester City, both playing this new Club World Cup next summer, they're expressing their concerns, Alisson for Liverpool. it does seem that there's a bit of momentum going on about this and I think it's a real challenge for the football bodies because I think the players' unions are going to pile up the pressure and they're going to want some sort of action. I mean, I don't think we're going to see strike action.

59:41I think that's going to be too much. But I do think they are going to try and mobilise their resources and do something and it must be a really big concern and I think Rodri, the sad coincidence about him picking up this really serious injury, that will just focus even more attention on this issue. Scores, what are your thoughts on that? You hear players come out talking about the amount of games. We played a lot of games. Have you got sympathy? Well, I think if you're going to have a good season, a successful season, you are going to play a lot of games. I think squads are so big now that there is a chance to rotate players, but there are them odd players, and we mentioned Rodri, and Rodri is the one who's been talking about it, who very rarely gets rested because of the importance he has to his team.

1:00:26We've seen results dip when he's in and around it. So there are always going to be them types. It's interesting, the goalkeeper was actually moaning about it as well. And he misses a lot of games through injury. Yeah, more concentration levels, I suppose, for them. But yeah, look, it needs to come to an end. I think the amount of competition you talk about, the world the world club cup as well with with so many more games that just used to be one game i think yeah yeah yeah it expanded to about six to eight teams it's now 30 odd teams it was two games on it and yeah you think about even the world cup in two years has that gone to 48 teams or something it's just becoming a little bit ridiculous now i think no okay greg i want to get to you on nottingham forest great start of the season unbeaten big winner anfield that we'll move on very quickly Yeah, let's rewind a week.

1:01:17Go on, go on. So, yeah, we had a good start. We're still not one at home. And I thought, right, we'll see how we get on against Liverpool because that's the gauge of just how far we've come and we deserve that win. I thought we were excellent. The game plan was perfect. Nuno got his subs right. He didn't play the wingers, which are two most dangerous players. But then Brighton, you think, well, was that a one-off result against Liverpool? Let's see how we go on again now, third away game. And it was good. I mean, we could have won it at the end, even with 10 players, even with the strange decisions that went on with the fourth official.

1:01:53And we just look like a team now that's more stable. We've had three years of being told we're going to go down and three years of being told that our recruitment's not very good. And I think the past 12 months, our recruitment's probably been as good as any Premier League club. even like your Hudson-Odoi is£3 million now one of our strongest players You look at the deal that you've done I saw this on social media when you sold Brennan Johnson for£40-50 million and you've got a Langer in for£20 million and Hudson-Odoi for so you basically bought two players in for one play and you've come away with about£25 million and you could argue that the two players you've got maybe are certainly on the same level as Brennan Johnson if not better Yeah.

1:02:39And then Ola Aina on a free. You know, he's just fantastic. He's absolutely brilliant for us. His pace. You saw him outpace Kyle Walker last season. And we seem to be finding these players now. Murillo, who's, you know, getting scouted by Real Madrid, by the sounds of it, this week. We seem to be coming that team that we hoped we'd be, where we proved people wrong. And, you know, what was it? Rest two players and rest a few players, you said, and still beat us 2-0. We're getting these victories now that we hoped we were going to get. What do you think the problem is at home? What I've seen Nuno's team, what I remember Nuno's team, they're quite negative and it seems to suit playing away from home.

1:03:22Yeah, well, there is that maybe away from home. We'd started playing with him last year with three at the back. And because we've got the two centre-offs now are just excellent. I do think they're probably top five, six in the league together. that's gave us that freedom to be a little bit more attacking away from home. We've got two sets of wingers now in silver and on the other side, obviously we've got Hudson-Odoi and Alanga. We've got these different things we can do. A lot of the time, our bench is stronger than a starting 11 away from home. At home, we just haven't had that opportunity yet.

1:03:57It was two decent draws, really. Bournemouth, nobody really knows where they are now. I'd say us and Wolves are at a similar level as we are. I had Forrest to go down, it would be very close, but I haven't watched him very early on in the season. You look at the attacking talent, you haven't mentioned Gibbs White there as well, but obviously he's going to miss the next game getting sent off. But Maz, I mean Brighton, I think you've made a really good start to the season as well. What are your thoughts on this new manager? Yeah, he's unbelievable. I don't know if it's been mentioned, but he's 31.

1:04:24If anyone likes to bang on about. But yeah, youngest Premier League manager. I thought you were an Epswich fan. I know, you looked at me, I was like, I'm not an Epswich fan. I looked behind me and I was like, there's no Epswich fans over here. No, I am a Brighton fan, just to clarify. But yeah, unbelievable start to the season. He came from St Pauli, second league in Germany, won that. And he came up with a bit of a reputation, playing really expansive football, really good young manager. But the Premier League is a different beast and he's adapted really well so far. I really like the way he spoke after the Arsenal game with Martin Keown on Punditry.

1:04:52He spoke so eloquently, so passionate about the club. He really cares about the football club and he clearly knows what he's doing as well when it comes to the tactics and his substitutions. He's really positive in that manner. We've got a great bench now, got a great squad. Obviously, we've spent the most this window, 200 million, I think, over that. So, there's a lot of pressure now. I think we've got to go for Europe. I think that's the sort of minimum we've got to go for. But, yeah, it's a really positive start and long may it continue. What have been the little tweaks that you've seen from De Zerbi?

1:05:19Is there anything different? Can you give us any insight, obviously, you know, watching them week after week? I think in terms of the press, like with De Zerbi, it was really intense. Our team always pressed. obviously our wingers are very important to how we play Pervis, depending on the time on one side and now you've got Minter usually or Rutter who can fill in Jao Pedro, there's a lot of I think now the difference between Deserby it's the, he likes to play really high line as we saw against Forest he got caught out for the second goal I think that's, he likes to play sometimes three at the back as well so there's slight differences to the way he likes to play in terms of Deserby but I think it's positive I think defensively we were a little bit shaky in respect to when we had the Zerbi, but going forward we looked really, really exciting and we got some incredible players like Jao Pedro, I'm a massive fan, Buleba, I'm a Buleba, big Buleba, so yeah.

1:06:10Danny Welbeck, Danny Welbeck, the resurgence of Danny Welbeck, that free kick on the weekend was unbelievable. How good has he been for you? I mean, for the last two or three years, unbelievable isn't he? I mean look, I wasn't his biggest fan when he first came to the club, I thought he was a bit over the hill, I thought he was finished, but he's proved me wrong massively. and yeah, past this season, he's been unbelievable. He should have made it 3-1 against Forest. I've got to chuck that in there because he beat like four players and then should have slotted it past Sells. But yeah, he's been incredible and what a resurgence from him.

1:06:37I'm a big fan. We've got the big, is it Chelsea the weekend for you? Yeah, we've got these boys on the weekend. They tried to take half your club, didn't they? I know, they have taken half. They've taken half. Scouting team. Keep Sanchez. Keep Sanchez. Kukura will have back, maybe. But no, it is frustrating because you want to develop as a club. You want to keep your best players. Kaiseido, McAllister. We've sold a lot of our good players. Ben White, I could go on all day. We've sold a lot of big players. We've made a lot of money, which is great. And I love Tony Bloom. I think he's one of the best owners.

1:07:07When Boobie spoke about Mancetti being one of the best ones, I think we're up there. I think you've got to put us in the conversation because Tony Bloom's done incredible things. He's so passionate. He's invested. He's made money. He's made the club sustainable and he's made us competitive as well. And so I think it's a really exciting time to be a Brighton fan. and there's a lot to look forward to because of the players we've signed. We've spent a lot of money, so the pressure's going to be on. But I believe with the squad we've got, we can do some exciting things. When you say the pressure's on, where do you expect to finish when you've spent that type of money?

1:07:38I predict Conference League anywhere in that sort of position. I think Conference League is the minimum, potentially Europa League, especially the way we've started this season. But I think against Chelsea, we're going to see whether we've got that in us. I think Chelsea, going forward, you spoke about how good their attacking options are. So if we're able to stifle that, then I'll be much more positive going into the rest of the season. But if we don't, then I think defensively we've got to look at maybe how we set up and who those players are going to come in and maybe, you know, shore things up a little bit at the back.

1:08:06Brilliant, Maz. And that's the end of the Fan Debates. Thanks for watching this episode of the Fan Debate, brought to you by Sky Bet. Make sure you watch us for next week with another fantastic episode.

1:08:22Thank you.