Man United Is A Circus, Wilcox & Berrada Need To Go & Michael Carrick Departing? | Overlap Daily

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1:50One all-in-one product designed to make supplementation easier. The day pack supports cognition, focus, and cellular energy production. At night, the night pack helps you wind down and supports a calm, relaxed state. Less time managing your supplements, more support for your day and night. Shop Total Human now at onnit.com. Tell you what, walk in while you still can. Exactly, you're right. Just about. Great timing that. Oh, look at that. Back to tech these four. Oh, yes. That's perfect, that, isn't it? Only actually get a cup of teakie. Oh, again, I can't believe it. You've got some of me. I've had too much caffeine.

2:30No, it's not. We should get decaf teabags, though, shouldn't we? Why? Just in case you've had too much caffeine. No, no, we don't need that decaf. This is perfect, this. It is good. Thank you very much. So, what's going on with your hip? Well, listen, 23 years of playing football has taken its toll, and I know I need a hip replacement. I know it's not funny I was going to say, Kelsey, keep laughing What's funny about it? It's not funny It kind of is It doesn't fit with my mental image of you Okay, understandable Well, I went down there last year and I was told that I had ten years last November before I need a hip replacement I'm bone on bone So I had an injection to get me through to January and I was going to have another injection to get me through to the end of the season.

3:23As things go, I went down the week before I was due to get another injection. Yeah. Went back to see the specialist and he was like, oh, you've probably got about a year. And I was like... How did that happen? How did I go from November to January and I've got ten years to one year? What did they say? They said you just basically ruined it even more. So you did nine years' worth of damage? Yeah, basically, in a couple of months. In one little tackle, and David Button it was, he passed it out. and I blocked it and I kind of went down on it. So I blamed him. He's got to send you flowers when you're in hospital.

3:54I hope so. I hope he does. How much are you going to miss? I think just one Tuesday. I'll be back. Listen, I'm strong. As soon as I'll be on crutches, but I'll be back. My friend had a hip operation and she was... Did it go well? Within a couple of hours she was walking. So basically I could come in after I've had it done. I think you should come in off your face on pain medication. We'll just have to show a bit later. I'll come in. No, no, don't do it later. We'll come to you. We can do the show from the hospital. We'll just come in and tap the surgeon on the shoulder, any chance. He'll be like, what's going on here?

4:28Yeah, yeah, come on, let's do it. But we need you because it's getting busy. Yeah. Because this time last year, there'd been four managerial sackings. Half of them were Nottingham Forest, obviously. Aren't they all Forest? Sometimes it feels like that. Although not this season. It feels as though Oliver Glasner's very much got the backing of Man and Eckers. Pierre Sarge at Palace, looks imminent, Michael Carrick at Manchester United, which we'll get into very shortly. Yeah. But there's two anniversaries this week as well. I don't know if there's cake or balloons, maybe sparklers, I don't know.

5:04Is there anything? Stephen Gerrard was appointed Villa boss five years ago. Yeah. Wayne Rooney took interim charge of Derby six years ago. So little anniversaries within the team. Would you do it? Would you go into management? Any kind of coaching at all? No, definitely not. Did you ever think about doing badges? I did. I thought you did. Do you know what? I thought the second time around at Aston Villa, I thought to myself, right, as professional football is right, what can I give back? A coach, manager? Yeah, that's what I want to do. Because that's what they think. Oh, you've been in football so long, you want to go into coaching or be a manager.

5:36I literally didn't even go to the first meeting because I was like, no, this is just not for me. I'm not going to go and be a coach or a manager. And I think that's because... Why not? Yeah. So, as a player, you've got some quite nice hours that you do. As a manager, you know, like, more and more managers now are going in at six, seven o 'clock in the morning, coming home at six, seven o 'clock at night. That's far too long for me. I can't be doing that. All day, every day. And then when they come home... A job. Who wants a proper job? Exactly that. And it's, you're coming home and you've got to do work and stuff like that.

6:10My younger brother's a coach at Watford, and he's got three kids. And seriously, when he comes out, they're just running around the house because he's like, I'm doing this, I've got to do that. But it's also, they're so analysis-heavy now as well. And I know people have done their coaching badges before, and especially in the early stages, all you're doing is filling out forms the whole time. And that's what I'm saying. Writing up the sessions. I write, I don't really like writing, I didn't really like writing in school. So for me, writing up sessions is far too much. And I just think that doing what I've been doing is much better for me.

6:44And the new generation is, you know, I don't think they can deal with a lot of tough love that I was used to when I come up as a player. And I think that a lot of managers are finding it hard to be able to deal with or be a certain way because they've come through the old school era. And I speak to Sir Alex all the time. And you're not even old school, really. Do you know what I am? I'm like old school, transitioning to new school. Right. You're like in between Gen X and Gen Z. Yeah, yeah. You're a Xenial. Is that what I am? No, no, you... I'm somewhere there. Not age-wise, but that same kind of thing where you're kind of in between.

7:24Yeah, yeah. You've got the sort of... That's what I am. So it's... Yeah, it's... You've been brought up by the old school people. The old school people. Sir Alex and speak to him, and I was like, imagine you being a boss now. And he was like, no. It just wouldn't happen. No. I'd be in trouble. But also, I think now there's more and more managers who aren't from that background at all. they're data people they are into the numbers they want to go into the kind of the theoretical tactics of things rather than the kind of because Sir Alex wasn't a training ground coach was he? No that wasn't it he had the coaches to go out there Mick Phelan, Renny Willenstein they were the ones that were not saying he wasn't on the pitch he was on the pitch but at times he would want to stay in his office and be warmer I think he'd look out to the pitch and just see and you knew he could see everything And you knew that he was up there looking.

8:14So he had people to do that. But a lot now has changed. And you look at the model of a Brentford or Brighton, a lot of it is data-driven. A lot of the players that they buy is a lot for data. And I remember before going to Ipswich, my agent was trying to get me to go to Brentford, and they were like, yeah, but your data's not this, this, this, this. And I was like, OK. What was missing in your data? I don't know. Do you know what? I don't actually know what my agent said. I need to find, I need to ring and find out what was there. You need to get your own data. It's like getting your medical records.

8:45Exactly. What was it? I still wouldn't understand it if I saw it anyway. Somebody could tell you. Yeah, something was missing. That's what we need. Something was missing. So, you know, they've got their model. And like I say, a lot more is data driven. I don't really understand why, but it works. It makes sense to be talking about this because this is exactly what we're going to be talking about in terms of the two managers that we said with Pierre Sarge and Michael Carrick is the structure at the clubs. and what managers need in order to be able to succeed. So we'll get into it. Yeah, let's go.

9:17Let's go.

9:22You're watching The Overlap Daily, brought to you by SkyVegas, making sure entertainment continues between the games. Let's get on with today's episode.

9:45The Michael Carrick era at Manchester United looks set to be coming to an end. And to react to that, joining us now, host of Stick to United and United Stand, Mark Goldbridge. Mark, broadly speaking, what do you think will be the reaction of the fans? We'll get into your personal thoughts in a second, but how do you think the Manchester United fans will react to this? I do think the vast majority will understand it and agree with it. I definitely think there will be a large majority that are pointing fingers elsewhere because, like many people have said, it was a bit of a strange one to go with Michael Carrick when they'd done this with Ole Gunnar Solskjaer before.

10:22And was there enough in that interim period to think that Michael Carrick could rebuild Manchester United? I personally don't think there was, but certainly not with the support that he's had from above. So, look, Man United are in the relegation zone. I think most Man Utd fans would expect a manager to be sacked, but I think there will be certainly some sympathy towards Michael Carrick in the fact that he's not the sole responsibility for where Man Utd are. Yeah, we've seen that from the Manchester United fans, Old Trafford in particular, who've been singing his name at the end of games, regardless of the result.

10:58It's clear where they think the blame lies. Where do Manchester United go now, though? Because that's the more important point. If fans are pointing their fingers at the owners, at the director of football, at Jason Wilcox and Omar Barada, that's not going to change. So why is there an expectation that if the squad stays the same and the organisation stays the same, that a manager can turn things around? Yeah, it's a good point. I think that when you think about the sacking of Jose Mourinho, when obviously Ashley was there then at that point and Oli came in, there was a boost, there was optimism in the fan base.

11:32I think there is an acceptance, like I say, that you have to be sacked if you're in the relegation zoning. You've only won one game in 10. Crystal Palace are sacking their manager. So Man United do need to show that they're ambitious in some sense. However, the people making these decisions, it doesn't sit right with me that Omar Barada and Jason Wilcox are flying out to speak to Sir Jim Radcliffe to decide to sack Michael Carrick and appoint a new manager. So Jim Radcliffe, as the owner of the football club, should be sacking those two people and saying, you've had three opportunities now in my time here to deliver a manager and you're here again saying I need to sack another one and spend money and bring another guy in.

12:07So I do think the structure above the next manager, and of course, it's a head coach at the moment. So I think it needs to be a manager like Unai Emery is. And I think that that's what Man United need. It can't just stop at Michael Carrick because the playing squad needs changing. But if you don't change what's above the manager or the head coach, then I think we will be back here regularly having this conversation. It doesn't always happen, Ashley, that there is a new manager bounce. But when you bring in somebody similarly to Ole Gunnar Solskjaer, and he's a different person from Michael Carrick and they had different jobs to do, but you do get that connection with the fan base, that connection with the football club, that understanding of what it means to be at Manchester United, which people from the outside can say what they like about.

12:53but it is a very real connection that needs to exist. Yeah, it is. And I think that after Ruben Ambrun left, Michael come in and, come on, everyone knows Michael Carrick knows the club. He knows what it was going to take for the players to get back on side, for him to connect with the fans. He's got a great connection with the fans anyway. Speaking with Sir Alex as well, he knew what he needed to do and literally tell the players to plan a formation that they enjoyed and play football that was more or less counter-attacking football. That's what Michael Carrick come in to do, and he made the players happy.

13:29You could see they were happy with what they were doing. They were on the pitch. They looked like they were enjoying the football that they were playing. It's just now that things have totally changed, and it's totally different. I think this season, for me, it was last season they were playing counter-attacking football. This season, I think it's more teams have got behind the ball, and they're now saying, break us down. and it's been difficult for the players up top that they've not had the ideas to be able to do that. When you get more and more possession, as they've had this season, it's been totally difficult.

13:59It has been a difficult job. One for Mark, I was saying, who would you say, the next manager, would you like to see to get Manchester United back? I personally think they were going to stick with Carrot yesterday morning. That was the noise. So I think something's happened yesterday afternoon that Man United see is a viable alternative. And the rumours were that Pochettino's got a release clause. So two plus two probably equals Pochettino. I don't necessarily think that's the answer. But having said that, he's very popular in the media. And I think you need the media. In the ex-player community at United, as you know, Ashley Young, they're very vocal.

14:43And I think he's quite respected there. I think the fan base would take to him. I think he communicates well. He's got Premier League experience. He's managed in the Champions League. So I can see that being logical as a next step. As you've said, Conte is probably a little bit too fiery. Nagelsmann may be a little bit too inexperienced. Eddie Howe only has Premier League. So I would say out of all those picks, I mean, I'd love UNA Emery. We're not going to do that. I'd love Luis Enrique. We're not going to do that. So I think Pochettino probably looks like the ship steadier at the moment, whether it'll work or not.

15:18I mean, I'm not committing to that at this stage. The club's a mess above the manager, as I've said. One of the things that you haven't mentioned there, Mark, in terms of discussing the runners and riders, is how they would take on that role of manager rather than head coach. You've mentioned lots of attributes that all the different managers would have or reasons that they might not be a good fit. but who's the one who can manage up as well as down? Who's the one who can have a say in player acquisition in terms of trying to... And maybe even more importantly from Manchester United's point of view, who goes out of the club?

15:53Try and get rid of some of the players. Yeah, I think you've got to go with a manager. I don't think we saw it with the summer in the midfield. I very much doubt Michael Carrick wanted Baleba, Santos and Tillemans. not that they're bad players but I just can't see that they would be seen as replacements for Casemiro I think you'd want better I'm sure Michael Carrick was talking about people like Elliot Anderson and Tonali so you need somebody who has that say so that if they're going to lose their job they lose their job on merit at the sense that they they chose those players Michael Carrick was in a difficult situation as a head coach I understood why he took it you know he'd been sacked by Middlesbrough, you're going to take that opportunity.

16:36But I think the next manager needs to spend the next two weeks really negotiating their case and grabbing as much power. Much like Deserby has at Spurs, like the amount of money they spent, how desperate they were for him, it's definitely benefited him in relation to being able to get players in and have his say. So I think that that's essential for the next manager. They can't just say it's Man United, I'll do anything. They've got to grab the opportunity, of course, but put some big lines in the sand about power at the football club. And the managers we've mentioned, Pochettino, Conte, Emery, Nagelsmann, these are the sort of people that I would expect in those negotiations have a reputation to be able to do that.

17:15Just past the two-year anniversary of Ruben Amirim's appointment, and there's a lot spoken around that in terms of who was making the decision to bring him in. Previously, Dan Ashworth paid a lot of money to bring him in, Ashley, to make sure that he was the one making the decisions. Reportedly, it was not the decision that he wanted, and so they decided to part company with Dan Ashworth instead. They'd already paid the money out for him. Since Alex Ferguson has left, it's about£100 million that Manchester United have paid out to managers who they've parted company with. They're now going to do the same with Michael Carrick.

17:52Does it feel like best use of the resources? I don't think they've used the resources in the right way at all. Like you say, they brought in Dan Ashworth, who was going to give his view on the next appointment. He didn't want Ruben Amirim, Sir Jim Ratcliffe, Omar Barada, Jason Wilcox. Maybe they did. And then they get rid of Dan Ashworth straight away. So it's like, well, why did you bring him in? You tried so hard to bring him in. And when you did get him in, you just put him out the door. So it's one of them where, you know, like we're saying, that it could possibly be Pochettino coming in. But then if you look at his tenure, especially towards the end, 2019 afterwards, the way that he was with the board, he wasn't getting what he wanted.

18:39So is he going to look at that now and think, right, I'm going to go to Manchester United and I'm going to be able to get the power that I want to get the players in? Well, right now he can't get any players in because he's got to work with what he's got to work with until the window opens. So I think he's going to find it difficult in that sense. And I think that the owners, the Glazers, Sir Jim Ratcliffe, are there. And they're like, well, we're making money from commercial stuff. So they've already said, I've heard Glazers come out and said that, you know, whatever success is on the pitch, you know, we're making money commercially.

19:07So it's going to be difficult for whatever manager comes into that football club. Unless they're able to come in and get that power, I think it's just going to be the same. Maybe the other anniversary that Manchester United fans will be looking at more optimistically is the 40-year appointment of Sir Alex Ferguson. I hope that. I weren't at dinner, no. Unfortunately, I wasn't at dinner. I was a little bit busy. Not invited? No, I got invited, but I just wasn't there, unfortunately. Mark, look, I know you said Manchester United fans aren't going to be bouncing up and down thinking this is everything fixed now.

19:37So, how are you feeling as a Manchester United fan today? I think with Carrick, it was only going to go one way. I think the football over the last two games has been very entertaining, but almost like responding to the crowd and not to the tactics. We've seen what Bruno Fernandes and Martinez have said in the last few weeks. So I doubt that dressing room is harmonious. But we have also seen what they're capable of when they put the effort in, which is what they've done when they've been 2-0 down. So I would expect United to move up the league with a better coach and a new manager bounce. Let's be honest, the new manager bounce is a thing.

20:12It happened with Carrick. It happened with Oli. so I think United just have to try and salvage the season they need to be in Europe next year there are a lot of points behind the likes of Brighton and Liverpool and Chelsea but I do believe that those players are better than what they've been doing I don't believe that Man United nobody put Man United in the relegation zone at the start of the season most people put us in the top five so the rest of the season is about trying to get there it's not going to be easy but I think that has to be the initial aim is to try and get up the table as high as we can for May.

20:48I know you said that Manchester United fans aren't particularly optimistic about the future, but I think the most optimistic man in the world at the moment is you thinking that you've got two days off after this. I know, I know. I'm jumping on the train now to London and I think by the time I get there, I'll be live by the Thames. But, I mean, there's not a lot to say. I mean, Michael Carey, we think, is going to get sacked. We've spoke about it there. And I don't think the next manager will get announced very quickly anyway. so I think we're going to be in this period of uncertainty for a little bit.

21:17Yeah, that's what we thought. They've got a sad carrot yet. They might change their mind. Exactly, exactly. Mark, thanks so much. Thank you. Take care both. See you in a bit. This episode is sponsored by Huel, official nutrition partner of Overlap Daily. Tim, it's that time again. In partnership with Huel, you and I are going to discuss one less thing in football. I read some of the comments. Some people were not really having the getting the fans going last week. They didn't like it. Really? Yeah, they said it's a good thing. Why is it a good thing? Yeah, I don't know. I mean, it's a good thing if you're 2-0 up or something like that.

21:45It ain't a good thing if you're getting beat 3-0 and then you'll tell the fans to come and support you. I just felt maybe when you said it should be a straight red, that it should be a yellow. Yellow. A bit yellow, yeah, yellow. Possibly. How did you feel when you watched that Liverpool game with the feigning injury and you saw the McAllister... Well, a grown man throwing himself on the floor. Yeah. Just... Medwecky. Yeah. Disgraceful. What McAllister was? Disgraceful. Right. You felt that strongly about it? Unless you start booking the players who are diving like that. Retrospectively, you've got to go to them, Jay.

22:16They're going to continue doing it. Unfortunately, that's what's going to happen. But what is Madweki doing? That's what I was going to say, Tim. I actually think, I was listening to everyone on Sunday after the game and everyone's going, what's he doing? McAllister having a game? He should be, that should be. Yeah, I get all of that. But if I'm Mikel Arteta, I am fuming with Madweki. You're 1-0 up at Anfield. he speaks about it being like you're getting put in a tumble dryer. He decides to put his head to McAllister. Whether he touched him a little bit or not enough, that's not the point. You're risking it.

22:49You saw it with Yarmouli. You saw it with Benton Court. Absolutely brainless from Maduweki. He could have cost his team. There's still a load of time for Liverpool to win that game. And you know what it's like at Anfield. You've played enough. Once it switches, you've got ten men you're hanging on. I couldn't believe that no one really mentioned Maduweki. Absolutely ridiculous for him to get involved in that situation because Luke Shaw is not really going to hurt him. And even the Yarmuluk situation, that wasn't a big enough one. But Maduweki for me, like McAllister, ridiculous. We've got to stamp it out of the game.

23:20But what is Maduweki doing? I agree with you. I agree with you. And I'm sure Mikel has seen it. And he would speak to him. You know, you put yourself on offer. I mean, I remember the one which was great. When Gabriel with big man Erlen Haaland. Do you remember that? Yeah, of course. That could have ended Arsenal's hopes there. Harlan stayed on his feet. Yeah. And he took a big bang to the nose there. But it ain't going to knock him over. But he just reacted. He didn't want to go down. He didn't want to throw himself down. He just stood up to it and looked straight in the eye. And he was like, was that it?

23:53I loved that. I loved that. But it's probably not winning the game. If he gets Gabriel sent off there, they probably win the game. I think that was the... For me, that was a pivotal moment in the deciding of the title. Yeah, but this one we're going head-to-head, because I've never really... When have you ever seen a proper fight break out in football? Hard ever. And everyone goes like that, you know what I mean? It's like handbags, isn't it? You go way back, aren't you? You know, bow you... Well, you saw one with Batty. Batty and Lesseau, yeah. That was a good one. Champions League, Moscow. Did you...

24:21Was it difficult to not... How hard was that not to laugh? It was... It weren't funny at the time. I really felt for Ray Hartford, who took over from Kennedy League. Where were you, in Russia or somewhere? Russia, Moscow, yeah. It was like freezing, minus 10 or whatever. and we weren't even in the game, you know, we were just getting it popped around us and then it just flared up out of nowhere, you know. I think it was a throw on, they both went for the ball and then Batty threw the ball back at him and the next thing I turned around, just swinging punches, throwing punches at each other, getting in between them to stop it, you know.

24:51But it never carried on, half-time, went in there, it was over, it was done. I think David broke his hand. Did he? Yeah. What, he tried to hit him? Yeah, I think he's caught him and he's broke a bone in his hand, you know, because it was so cold, I mean, it's freezing. reason but yeah it was a it was a little bit you know we didn't laugh to be honest it's funny when you look it back at it now but they were you're talking about two very very good players there yeah and whenever anyone sees them they always mention that to them if they're of an age they will say what about when you had a fight in moscow i mean i know they had careers remember great careers both top players so that's one less thing we would like to have in football and that is feigning injury feigning injury yep done is it a straight red um yeah that that one they're not on the head with no force going down I think retrospectively even they should get back what about if they had sent off McAllister and Madweke because you're both idiots get in yeah a bit harsh on Madweke that one but on McAllister for that dive we can't have grown men throwing themselves to the floor no it's disgusting we want that out of the game the verdict's in we're getting rid of anyone that throws themselves to the floor in football and with Huell we've got one less thing to think about when it comes to our nutrition.

26:03Huel is a complete meal in a bottle, high in protein, high in fiber, with all essential vitamins and minerals. Save£10 on your first order with code DAILY at checkout. Just go to huel.com forward slash daily. What's one less thing you would like to see removed from football? Let us know in the comments. This episode is sponsored by Arn Clothing. Here on The Overlap Daily, we like quality. And that's why you'll often see me, Gary, Jamie Redknapp and Mark Goldbridge, all in Arne clothing. Arne's range is timeless, offers great value, and you can wear it throughout the day to any occasion. Why not check it out in one of Arne's amazing stores?

26:40They've recently opened another in London's Westfield Stratford, joining existing stores in Liverpool, Manchester, and Kent. Or have a look online. Visit arneclow.com. Hey, we're Nick and Jack, hosts of The Best One Yet. Behind every episode, there's research, email, spreadsheets, and our shared Google Doc, the headline hammer. With Google Workspace with Gemini, Google's AI is built right into the premium versions of tools we already use, like Gmail, Docs, and Sheets. No new tools or extra logins, just personalized AI for the way we work. That means less time on the work around the work and more time finding the stories worth talking about.

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28:07joining us now to reflect on the changing times at Old Trafford is Overlap chief football correspondent Mike Keegan and Mike in some ways there is an error of inevitability about this story but it did feel that as recently as yesterday Manchester United looked like they were going to stick rather than twist. Yeah, there was quite a bit of an element of that, Kelly. I think United have been pretty consistent. They've said that, you know, the Bournemouth game when we all thought he'd gone when he'd given his lap of honour at the end, it was like, well, hang on. There's three games coming up now before the international break.

28:43Let's put our foot on the ball, give Michael and the squad a chance to turn this around. And I think people kind of assumed because there was that comeback against Villa that he was going to be safe. but United had never come out and said that and I think the manner of the three performances obviously the Chelsea first half was great but then we saw what happened in the second Roma was a win but it was kamikaze and then the Villa game was just I know they got a draw but it was a mess and it was kind of this isn't the evidence the overwhelming evidence that Michael can turn this around so they're going to assess the situation as they said they always would and I think you look at the wider picture where Manchester United currently are in the Premier League and it's quite clearly heading towards one direction.

29:27You can definitely split Michael Carrick's time at Manchester United into two parts, Ashley. It was managerial time at Manchester United into two parts. How do you think overall he's fared in the position? Do you know what? I think that when he come in, it was going to be tough for anyone to come in. But I think last season, he worked miracles. Because if you looked at that team and said that they were going to finish third, and be playing Champions League football next year, from where he took that team, you'd have been like, no chance. It's not happening. It wouldn't have happened. So I do think that that's been...

30:01Like I said, he worked miracles in that time to get the team and the squad into a place that, you know, it looked like things were changing. You flip that then to this season and, you know, Michael, he's no fool. He understands what he was going to be taking his job. They've got their Champions League football. that got the money from qualifying from the Champions League. But Mike, a lot of the conversations around Michael Carrick's time at Manchester United, particularly this season, has been about the criticism of Wilcox and Barada and more broadly about the ongoing criticism of the Glazers and of Jim Ratcliffe.

30:38So before we talk about who might be next for Manchester United, is there confidence that the people making the decisions are the right people to make the decisions? I think the honest answer is no certainly not among the fan base you look at the track record now because there is a body of evidence and we've had the contract extension for Eric Ten Hag that was obviously a mistake Ruben Amerim comes afterwards and that doesn't work out and now Michael so there's three appointments there that you've got to say they've got wrong so there isn't an alternative really the United fans are just going to have to put the faith in these people getting the fourth one right so what is the next whether it's a head coach or whether it's a manager and and they are slightly different roles what what does the next person in charge have to do let's kind of define their role before we talk about the the individuals well it's a really interesting question and i think the next person has to get all this ironed out before they even go anywhere near the place i know that mauricio pochettino has got admirers at old trafford and i think he would be a great appointment I think he ticks a lot of boxes you get a lot of people saying oh well he's always the bridesmaid he gets teams to cut finals and they lose it's like well Manchester United aren't the bridesmaid they're currently sat on the back row of the church like getting to the altar would be a start and I think Maurizio would be a really good fit for the club but then Maurizio when you look at his time at Chelsea you know he inherited a mess it was Potter and then it was Lampard and they couldn't win a game.

32:14And then Maurizio comes in and admittedly it took some time, but he gets them, I think he got them to sixth in the Premier League at the end of the season, he got them to a cup final. And then importantly, he left in that summer because there was a disagreement with the club over the direction of travel, how much influence I think he would have on signings, what their strategy was going forward. So there is no point in Maurizio taking the job at Old Trafford if he will not get the assurances from the people above that they will give him the tools that he needs to succeed. And if you're Michael Carrick, you will have a very strong argument that you worked a miracle to get that side, Champions League football, and the extra revenue that that brought.

32:55And then you just weren't backed in the summer. You've been let down by the people above you. So whoever is coming in next needs assurances because that squad, as we've seen, is a mess. yes it should be better than 18th and I don't think you can defend just how bad the start has been but everybody can see that United need defenders that Dallo playing at left back is a liability but Michael doesn't really have the options to do anything else to put anybody else in there So with all of that to be ironed out is there any suggestion that this could be a quick decision for the appointment of a new manager or new head coach?

33:34You'd like to think so because after the Bournemouth game, obviously we all thought he was gone, he did his lap of honour, we all thought it was beyond the point of return and there was an inevitability. I think if you wanted to give the powers that be credit, then perhaps what we've just seen is a buying of time. So they have seen the three games ahead and the international break and basically they've said, we're not going to make the change now, but this will give us time to prepare for what's next. So maybe I'm giving them too much credit, Maybe they're going to go into the Liverpool game with a caretaker manager.

34:09Maybe even Michael is still there, but obviously that's highly unlikely. You would like to think that they've got somebody lined up and that they are quite far down the line. We know how it works in football. There are ways that you can sound people out, first of all, and make sure that you're on the same page so that when the time comes, this all happens pretty quickly. Mike do you think that it's just it just should be Michael Carrick is the one that that should be leaving it is there the people that are making the decisions i.e Jason Wilcox, Omar Barada you know Sir Jim Ratcliffe someone else that should be going out the door as well yeah it's an interesting one and I think if you're the supporters you know we've heard it actually we've heard the Stratford Ends singing about Jason Wilcox about Jim Ratcliffe and about the Glazers is the problems at Manchester United go way, way, way beyond the manager.

35:05But the people who own the club are the people who own the club. So it would be interesting to see the Glazers take on this because they've handed over effectively sporting control to Ineos and you've got to be honest, it's got worse. So you would imagine that there may be conversations there where the Glazers are saying, lads, you've got to get this one right because we're getting hammered and the be-all and end-all of Manchester United is a commercial entity. It's the share price. That's just how it is for the people involved. So if it gets to a stage where this starts impacting on the share price, then you would expect changes at a higher level than just at the manager.

35:44But I think at this moment in time, midway through a season, it's focused on getting this next one right and getting United out of this mess that they're in on the field. Mike, it's also, just while you're talking about share price, that's reminded me, it's worth pointing out that because Manchester United are listed on the New York Stock Exchange, there are certain protocols they have to follow in terms of sacking of one manager, the bringing in of a new manager because it's market-sensitive information. Yeah, there is that. But then I think going back to Ruben Amorim, when Ruben Amorim was sacked, the official announcement from memory was about quarter past 10 in the morning.

36:20So there are things that they have to do. But on timing wise, I don't think they are limited that, You can't sack a manager until the bell on Wall Street is rung. I'm not entirely sure that that's how it works. I'll be honest, it's not my area of expertise. I have an area of expertise. But for you, Ashley, who would you want to take over? Who do you think is capable of doing the job that needs to be done? I think there's been so many names that have been found out there. Obviously, Richard Pochettino is the latest one that they're coming with. with the pedigree that he's got and had, getting Tottenham to finish in the top four on consecutive occasions, then finishing second, their best ever finish.

37:10It's got to be a manager that has got a big personality that can actually come in and say to the owners, listen, this is the direction I want to go in, but you have to back me. I'm not sure there's really any managers out there right now that is going to get that backing from the board because it's what we're saying that Sir Jim Ratcliffe, Omar Brada, Jason Wilcox, the Glazers have come out and turned around and said success on the pitch, it doesn't matter because we're making that commercially. Now for fans to hear that, the fan base, the Man United fan base, will be pulling their hair out and going, what do you mean that success on the pitch isn't really needed?

37:49It's crazy. So it's one of them where you want a manager that's going to come in and get the players running. And the style of play that Pochettino plays is a high-pressing run. I'm not sure he's got the players there that are going to be capable of doing that. I think that's why you saw Michael Carrick playing in the medium block, because he knew the players weren't able to do that. But if it's right that Pochettino's going to come in, of course there's going to be a player bouncing. You're going to see a reaction with the players. how long will that last? Only time will tell. And Mike, as you've both pointed out, the gap between Manchester United and the size of the club and Manchester United and the recent achievements of the club is a big one.

38:29So talk to me about Manchester United's pulling power in the managerial market. It's still huge, Kelly. And I think, you know, we are at a point in football and it always amazes me where the best managers in the world are less expensive than your average left-back in the Premier League. So you would like to think that the powers that be at United will make enough money available for this to be game-changing money for the right candidate. And yeah, Manchester United are clearly not what Manchester United were, but they are still Manchester United. and if you were the person that came in there and put that club back to anywhere near where they should be that's an incredible thing to have on your CV and there are, as Ashley will tell you there are fewer clubs bigger in world football so it's a mess at the moment I think one of the pauses for concern obviously if you were offered the job would be the toxicity of the place but then it's football and as harsh as this is, we know that some decent performances on the field can quite quickly change the music off it.

39:41So you would back yourself and I think it still has an incredible pull. Mike, thanks very much. Cheers. Thanks, Mike.

39:54Hey, Kieran. Are you shaken or stirred to be here? Shaken. Probably shaken. You after your coffees this morning. That was me. I had too much caffeine. I can't do it. It's really strong, the coffee, this morning. Daniel Craig is hanging up his tuxedo. Big Liverpool fan. He is. Yeah, he is a big Liverpool fan. So the search for the new 007's got everyone talking. Aaron Taylor-Johnson has been mentioned. Josh O 'Connor, who I love. I saw him in a play called Golden Boy, and he was brilliant. Like, completely brilliant. And he's got... He's a more... He would be a more sensitive Bond. Yeah. Which I think is a more modern Bond, in my opinion.

40:31I loved him in The Crown. Yes. He was really good in that. Yes, as Prince Charles. Who then went on to become King Charles? For those who don't know, spoiler alert. Henry Cavill, who was Superman, wasn't he? James Norton. Yeah. Oh, was James Norton the one from Happy Valley? I liked him in Happy Valley. He was the baddie in Happy Valley. I've seen him in quite a lot of things. And Theo James. Theo James? I don't know who Theo James is. He's a handsome man. Yeah. I mean, none of them. None of them could be described as non-handsome. But what do you think makes the perfect James Bond? What do they need to be?

41:11I mean, handsome helps, doesn't it? They need to be cool. Is this you chucking your CV in? No, no, no. As I said before, I can't drive. I've been no use for a diet. The Bond car. It's not real driving. The Bond Waymo. Maybe I can do it there. you'd just be in the passenger seat exactly it would be perfect wouldn't you kieran's the new james bond in a driverless car yeah perfect it'd be a new take on it wouldn't yeah exactly you said josh o 'connor could be the sensitive one i could be i could be the driverless one yes you could be um the do you think bond needs to change i mean they're all very much of a type i'm a bit biased exactly i'm a bit biased we spoke about this earlier and i i'd love James Nelson Joyce to do it.

41:58Imagine Scouse Bond. Oh, my God. It'd be amazing. I'll have a martini. And he's so good in The City of ours. And he'd just be great. Oh, my God. He is brilliant. I do love him. Oh, my God. That's a really good shout. He would be good. But do you know, there's a theory on Bond that it doesn't really matter who you have to play it because while 007 is the special agent number, James Bond is a code name, which is why you can have lots of actors and lots of different types of actors play James Bond because it's never James Bond's real name. Does that make sense? It makes sense. Am I talking rubbish?

42:34I like that as a theory. So it means it opens up who can play James Bond that way. Oh, OK. It's almost like Doctor Who, isn't it? Yeah. When they pick the Doctor. There's a regen. Yeah, yeah. Exactly. Do you want to play some quickfire questions? I can't wait. I love this. You live for quickfire questions. I do. OK. Who was the best ever James Bond? oh great do you want to read it no no no do you want to read do you want to ask me them instead I can answer them I can answer them are you good are you good at this go on right would you like to do some quick five questions Kelly yeah you live for them I do I live for them yeah right here we go best ever James Bond Sean Connery Best Bond film?

43:29Doctor No. Best Bond villain? Jaws. Best Bond theme song? The Carly Simon. Carly Simon? The Carly Simon one. Nobody does it. Yeah, yeah. Best Bond car? DB5. And best next Bond for the franchise? James Nelson Joyce done James Nelson Joyce outro I feel like that's back to you we are so smooth do you know what we're smooth enough to be Bond I think that's it thanks for that SkyVegas you have our answer James Nelson Joyce is the answer to all our questions absolutely

44:16it is weird with Manchester United that everybody looks at it and sees the same thing and says this doesn't look like it's run well, this doesn't look like people are making the right decision, this doesn't look like they've brought in the right players. It's all very easy to look from the outside and go, do you know what, this should be quite a straightforward fix. Except it's not really because you're asking the kind of owners and the board to vote against themselves, if you like. But I just, you look at that squad of players, I know it might have been a slightly unbalanced summer in terms of who they brought in.

44:55Who they recruited, yeah. Yeah, but still very, very good players. Yeah. And there are very good players in that squad. Yeah. But if you look at it, what are they capable of? Do you know, it's like what you're saying, right? You look at the players and on paper you're like, this is a really good squad. Like, there's really good players there that can do a lot. For me, they're just not together. And I think that was so evident on Sunday where you had players and decisions that were being made on the pitch where all it would take is a simple just talk. Like, if someone communicated, and football can be so easy.

45:36Like, I had it with Michael Carrick, and I mean, he made my job easy because all he used to say to me was, because I played in front of him, block left or block right. It was so easy. But yet it feels like players nowadays are scared to talk or worried about what they say. Are they used to more information from the manager? Is that it? Nowadays they do. Are they loaded with information so that when they get on the pitch, that's where they are? I think players want more information nowadays. And that's the thing. They go and ask more and more information. Instead of where it was, like I could say, back in the day, you went out and at times if a manager set you up in a formation or whatnot and things are not going right on the pitch you as players turn to each other and go we need to change something here the manager's on the sideline so now it's down to us players on the pitch to work out or go to him and say listen this isn't working or you know if you're not going to be able to wait till half time you just change it yourself because everyone's got a voice on the pitch but it's just there's just no like I said that that togetherness just doesn't feel like it's it's right and you can see that the recruitment in the summer wasn't I don't think what Michael Carrick would have wanted um and I think a lot of that is to do with like I say that the board thinking do you know what we're not going to spend so much on recruitment this summer we want to go to a new ground and And it's like, for me...

46:58They still spent big. They did, but in their areas. Well, and this was supposed to be the idea, wasn't it? Start with the front line, go to the field. Yeah, of course. Go to defence. But I just wonder if... I mean, you look, I know Senna Lomans had made the mistake in the World Cup and that may well have affected his confidence. But also, if you haven't got the defence right... And this, I don't know how much of this is true or whether it's just one of those rehashed kind of sayings that everybody kind of pulls out. But if you haven't got the defence right, you've got a nervous goalkeeper who's going to be exposed a lot.

47:32And you've also got a midfield who are having to work twice as hard because they're trying to provide the service and also protect players that they don't fully trust. So when the balance is off, everybody suffers because everybody's linked. And this is what it's about. If you haven't got everyone that is knowing each other's jobs, if you've had players that have gone away at the World Cup. And for me, Sonny Lemons, he was fantastic last season. That mistake in the World Cup has affected him this season because he's not the same goalkeeper that he was. I've played in defence, and if you've got a goalkeeper that is nervous behind you, it makes you then start panic, and you do worry.

48:12And I think that it's like a knock-on effect. Everyone will then be knocked on by that. But equally, if everything had been going well at Manchester United, I'm thinking even to David Beckham coming back after France 98, and he was vilified. But when he came back to the club, it felt like his safe place. Because there were so many there. And yet, Lance has come in and it's more chaos. And that's why it feels... Just everything surrounding the club is chaotic. From top to the bottom on the pitch, just everything is just chaos. Whenever we've talked about... Well, all we've talked about is Man United.

48:48That's all we're talking about. It's just chaos. And we do that anyway. They are a club that people are interested in anyway. Of course, because it's one of the biggest clubs in the world. And yet at the moment, there's no four stories. It's pretty much comical. That's what it is. It's like the club is a comedy. Well, Steven Gerrard's loving it. Oh, of course he is. And I see Stevie talking about it as well. You can just see how excited he is about it. It's horrible to see. But that's the way the club's going. So it's one of those things that, as an ex-player, you look at the club and you're like, how is this possible?

49:21I think that for me, like I said, the players have been listening too much to outside noise and what's going on with the owners and whatnot. And as players, you're on the pitch. You just need to focus about what's on the pitch. You've got players that come out in interviews. I know it's outside noise about the owners and stuff, but it's also coming from inside the house. The call is coming from inside the house when you've got Lissandra Martinez coming out and criticising transfer policy. And if you're standing there as a player who's just come in, you think, is it me? You saw it and you actually saw that with, you know, Yuri Tillemans.

49:58Yeah. Like if anybody was to watch the interview, after Lissandro Martinez comes out and then you're interviewing Yuri Tillemans, you can see in his head he's going, well, he's talking about me here. I was one of the players who'd just come in. Yeah. So there's unrest all throughout. You saw Amad Diallo. He then sends out something on Instagram. Is he directing it at Lissandro Martinez? 100 % No one can tell me that he's not So when you haven't got a team that is together Off the pitch And I've always said that if you've got It was like F in disgrace That was it, that was the one F in disgrace So it was one of them that is If you've not got the togetherness off the pitch Around a training ground If you've got different cliques It's just not going to work We go back to You don't all have to be friends No of course not As long as you get on the pitch that's all that matters because I've been in dress rooms where players don't talk to each other.

50:54Who? Oh, I don't want to name names. I'm trying people under the bus here. Save it for the book. Yeah, I'll save it for the book. Oh, all right, Ben White. I'm not quite there. I'm not going to say who the people are. But there is times where players won't talk. I had it with, when I was at Aston Villa with Douglas Luiz and I think it's a new thing where, you know, certain players, if you, I said something to him in a game and I mean for months, we didn't talk off the pitch. And it was one of those things... What did you say? I don't know. I just said to him about running. Just run. That's all it was.

51:25And I think he thought I was making it personal. Well, I weren't. I was just trying to help him out. And it was for three months. Like, when I say we didn't talk, morning, nothing. And that was it. But then I remember that after the season finished, he actually come to me and he said, I was so wrong in ignoring you. What you said was right. So this is what I'm saying. You need players. You don't have to get on. You don't have to be best friends. I've not been best friends with players throughout my career, but when you're on that pitch, as long as you've got that connection, that understanding of each other, it helps you so much on the pitch.

52:01But for me, at Manchester United right now, like you say, it's chaotic everywhere. On the pitch, you can see it, and Sunday was just typified that in the way it was. I mean, look, the positives from Sunday are twice. I mean, three times in a week, really. Manchester United have come from two goals down. and you can take that as a positive that there is a fighting spirit in there somewhere even if it takes until added time it's there but it's being I said before the game if they can start with that fighting spirit straight away then it'd be a different game players have access to sports psychologists they have all kinds of people advising them they have people that they can turn to to try and work that out because that feels that feels like a psychological thing, being able to get to that place where they're like, I can do this from the first minute.

52:56As opposed to conceding. You're right, there's so many. The first and second half. Of course, exactly that. But you can have so many people around you and telling you this, this, this, this, this. It's you, the one that looks in that mirror and says, right, this is my job. This is what I need to do. This is what I'm going to do. I know what it takes to go out there and be a Manchester United player and do you know what? If it is that we're going to play this Aston Villa team and they're going to attack us straight away, okay, so what you're told is first five, ten minutes, don't concede. They were 2-0 down.

53:27Six minutes. You know straight away that fan base are going to expect more. There's such an expectant when you play for Manchester United. I mean, I don't think that's just Manchester United to be honest. No, of course not. It's not, but... Not being 2-0 down in four minutes. It's a disaster to be honest. After how things have been these last few weeks and then you go to that start and you're like oh no but like you say you flip it and you go well the fighting spirit's there it's it's in there somewhere but how does it come out more and more and like i say it could be where players sit down and talk to each other and no doubt i'm not sure even if the players have done that and at times i've led player listen we're getting the stress and we're talking and saying what's going wrong and it's so honest and if you don't like it well it's tough luck have you ever been in a situation where it and presumably that's when you've had to have these talks is where you feel like everybody's just getting sucked down into this spiral where it feels like the i mean the opposite of kind of working with the momentum that it's just it feels like you're climbing a mountain every time you go out onto the the pitch as a group?

54:40It is as a group. And there's so many different mentalities in the dressing room. There's so many different players that one could be thinking this and one's thinking that. Unless you sit down and you haven't, you've got to have an honest conversation. And at times that's what is needed. Players have to turn around and not take it to heart, just understand, listen, it's constructive criticism. And that is what at times is needed. if I'm a senior and I'm telling a youngster right this is what I expect you to do I expect that youngster if I'm not doing something you tell me the same if I'm not pulling my weight then I should be told it doesn't matter what age you are you've got a saying you've got the grounds to turn around and call someone out and I think that there's none of that that's been happening people have been allowed to get away with coming out and talking in interviews not performing and just allowing people well this person's run off you just leave it and you don't say nothing.

55:39And that's why it's been such a disaster there at Manchester United. So when you look at the squad, who would you keep? If you were the new manager who was going to be coming in and looking at that squad. But no, I'm not saying anybody that you mentioned is the only person that you would keep from that squad. And also some of those people maybe have the kind of mentality that does flourish with stronger personalities around them, maybe they do need that. You need some of those people as well. You can't all be full alphas or a nightmare. No, of course not. So you do need some of those people. So who would you keep?

56:19If you were coming in and starting and thinking, right, I need a team here that's going to, first of all, get themselves out of the relegation places and then potentially start to climb up the table, who would you be keeping? I think you, if I'm going to go with the spine of the team, you've got to keep a goalkeeper. Certainly lemons, but I think he needs, someone's got to sit down and talk with him. Because everyone knows, and you can see from the mistake of the World Cup, he has not been anywhere near where he was before. Then you want to go Harry Maguire. He's a leader, he knows he's been at the club long enough.

57:03I played with him. So he understands what it's like putting on that shirt. He's had so much criticism. He's bounced back from it. And he showed his personality. Kobe Mainu. For me, I go back to Sir Alex Ferguson's teams. And the spine of that team was British. Players that come from the academy that know the club. Now, Kobe is one of them. And for me, he's a fantastic footballer. And he's someone that Manchester United need. He's got personality. He wants to get on the ball. He wants to drive forward with the ball. He doesn't shy away from nothing. He's had his injuries. But he's a player that, like I say, that when you come up through the academy, I didn't come up through the academy, but talking to players that did, like a Danny Welbeck, they actually know and love and live for this football club.

57:57So it would mean even more to a copy that you'd say, do you know what, I want him in this team, I want him to be the spearhead of this team to take this club forward. Do you know what else is interesting about him? And I remember when he made his debut, I think I was working on the game and he made his debut, and what the pundits in the studio really noticed about him was how willing the senior players were to give him the ball, even as a young player, and how much trust they put in him. Does that tell you a lot about his character as well? I think it's massive, that. You know when you're a senior player, but yet you trust a youngster, and especially the position he's playing in in centre midfield.

58:34If he loses the ball, that could be counter-attacked. If he does well, he drives forward with the ball. I think it's similar to Trainioli at Liverpool right now. And I've only seen the last couple of games. But you can tell Virgil van Dijk's giving him the ball. All the players want to give him the ball to get on the ball. And he's so confident with it. If you've got someone at that age that has got the belief in themselves to want to get on the ball, it just resonates all around that squad. so for me Kobaymenu is one of them and then you look at the front line and I think the fight that Kunja's had at O 'Brien and Bruma with players around them there's good players in that squad there's so many more that you can name but if you go and like I say the spine of it that's what you want and you want players to be able to fight for each other to be able to show how together they are for a manager coming in looking at the squad, he's going to be, do you know what?

59:32This could work. Fernandes? Yeah, he's been fantastic. He's been the number one player for Manchester United. Without him, who knows where Manchester United would have been. But I think that with his contract coming up, will the club look at him and be like, well, do you know what? Maybe we can get something for him in January or not. Do you think with some of those players, there's a sense of maybe it being time to cut cords with the past in that sense. I know there's a lot of talk about how things were when Manchester United were winning league titles. And it can't all translate to now. I mean, it's 40 years since Alex Ferguson was appointed.

1:00:16And it can't all translate now. And the game has moved on. But there are certain things that remain consistent throughout that time. but equally if you've got links with a not successful period with a with a poor period for Manchester United do you almost want to sever those ties a little bit yeah of course you do I've been part of the uh the times where things haven't been successful even though you can say okay we won Europa League FA Cup League Cup well it's so I mean but that's the success you're happy with that but Manchester United Premier League titles that's that's what you're talking about that's where you want to be that is like i say the pinnacle and an expectation of like say before now where things haven't gone so well you of course you want to forget that and put that behind you but when things are still going the same way and we can keep changing manager after manager after manager and things are not going well on the pitch players have to turn around and be like hold on a minute something's not right here and it's not just managers that are changing it's us as players You have to take that upon yourself.

1:01:22You know, you sit there as a Manchester United player before and you're going through hard times and you think, right, a part of it could be a manager, but, you know, as players, we're not doing enough. We're not showing why we report to the club. We're not showing the passion, the belief, the determination, the hunger to go out and get that success. But yet we need that. And if we've got leaders on that pitch to be able to say, hey, right, listen, we ain't going to concede early. We're going to go and start the game well, and we're going to show not just 45 minutes here, 45 minutes there. We're going to put it together consistently for 90 minutes and go and win football matches and get this club back to where they are.

1:02:04You could wipe all that history that you've seen in the previous years where there hasn't been success winning Premier League titles to then be the team and be the players that are, do you know what? Right, we're the ones that got us back to there. The ones that were before us didn't. And you've talked before about Emery potentially being in a similar situation at Aston Villa and why that would possibly be a good fit at Manchester United. That seems to have gone away, not just because of the fact they conceded four goals at Old Trafford at the weekend and lost against Barcelona in midweek. But that seems to have gone away and it does seem to be Pochettino who's the frontrunner.

1:02:44Is he that kind of personality? I know it's not all on the manager, but is he the kind of manager who can lead players to getting there on their own, to bring that mentality in? I think that when he went to Tottenham, he did fantastically well for Tottenham. On four consecutive seasons, getting them into the top four, he finished second in the table. Champions League final, he lost against Liverpool. You know, for a club where Tottenham were at, you know, mid-table, he took them to the Champions League all the time, brought Champions League football. He gave the club... It was a genuine title challenge, isn't it?

1:03:20Exactly. And you're talking about being able to be at the top and be title challengers. That was fantastic for where he was at Tottenham. Can he come and do the same thing at Manchester United? There's a possibility. He's got a style of football. he's got a way in which he wants to play high intensity football, pressing forward. Will the players be able to do it? Only time can tell. But if it is, it's going to be Pochettino. Like he said, he loves England. He loves the Premier League. And there's a challenge there that I'm sure that he'll be like, yeah, he'll be licking his lips to be able to get that opportunity.

1:04:01I think his name's been talked about in years previous. So, of course, when you talk about the Premier League, You want to go up against the best. And I think that's what he said. He wants to test himself against the best. So things didn't go so well at Chelsea with him. But it was one of them where I think between him and the owners, it didn't go to plan. Is this going to be a problem? This is the thing. He's now coming into Manchester United. I'm sure and I guarantee he'll be turning around and saying, well, if I'm coming there, I need you to tell me that I'm going to get this, this, this. if you give me them guarantees I'll come in and I'll turn this football club around because I think any manager will be looking at Manchester United and saying I'm going to be the one although we've had managers previous that have said I'm going to be the one and it's not happened if he does get full control like you say Unai Emery he went in and literally Aston Villa and said I'm taking full control this is who I want this is what I want this is who I want above me and this is how I'm going to work the owners said take it and look at the success they've had and look at what they're still having.

1:05:08And with the financial outlay or lack of financial outlay. And this is another thing as well. You know, they've been so, with financial fair play rules and stuff, he's been able to get a team. But he's still in a job. Yeah, he's staying there. He's staying there. Of course. But then as is Mauricio Pochettino, who's USA coach. But in April this year, like you said, Pochettino was on stick to football and he spoke about his desire to return to the Premier League. Mauricio, would you like to come back to the Premier League? Yeah. Yes, one day, yes. You would? Yes, one day, yes, because I really like England.

1:05:44I think it's my profile of human profile and coach profile, I think, match very well with the Premier League, with the culture, the idea, the idiosyncrasy and the philosophy. One year, five years, ten years, the Premier League would always welcome you back. That's the other thing as well. when you look at managerial appointments, not just at Man United, like how chaotic it is generally. I'm just looking at, you know, they looked at bringing Potchino to Old Trafford and then went for Ten Hag instead. And you're like, really? Like, they were both on your list. Oh, I'm just glad I'm not a decision maker.

1:06:22Yeah. Because to make that decision, to get the right one, of course you need to know what manager you're bringing in. Yeah. You need to know what he's going to give to the players, to you as, you know, the owners, and to the fans. Because the fans are so critical, so dependent. And their Manchester United fans know what they've had in previous years. They know the history of the football club. I said, there's not been a manager since Sir Alex that's won more than two trophies. Pochettino could be looking at that and thinking, yeah, this is my chance. This is who I'm going to now get this club to winning trophies.

1:07:03But it's like what I said, that he's got to be able to get the backing from the owners and the board. And right now, I'm not sure they're going to be looking at this football club thinking, do you know what? In January, we're going to give him X amount of money to go and buy however many players. Because I still think in the back of their mind, they're going new ground. Do you know what? Well, there is that. And the Manchester United fans have had banners and songs about that and made their feelings on the new ground very clear. Yes. Not to say that there aren't renovations to be done at Old Trafford, but fair to say that the new stadium is not on their list of priorities.

1:07:40But just to go back to the list, you look at the names that are being linked with Manchester United and you look at Eddie Howe and the type of manager he is, you would have imagined that was a more viable link when and if Dan Ashworth had ever taken up his position. Julian Nagelsmann, again, very different experience. Mauricio Pochettino, different experience. At one stage, Gareth Southgate was talked about, But I think Gareth has said he's not looking to get back into it. But then when you look at Pochettino, they're all managers who bring very different skills, different styles of play, different styles of management, both up and down into the job.

1:08:20So it doesn't feel that they're looking for anything in particular if that is the shortlist. I don't know if they know what they're looking for. That's the thing. Like, everybody can say, right, we're going to go after this manager, this manager, this manager. Or do they actually know what they're looking for? Because you had Dan Ashworth come in and disagree with Ruben Amarin coming in. OK, so he was out the door. Yeah. It didn't work out. So Dan Ashworth, you'd say, well, he kind of knew what he was talking about here, but it didn't work. Yeah, of course, Michael Carrick come in. Mind you, we don't know who Dan Ashworth did want to bring in.

1:08:56Yeah, we don't know. That would have worked either. But, you know, he's got to say because he turned around and said Amrim weren't going to work and that's what happened. It's, for me, as a club, and being one of the biggest clubs in the world, you want to get the best managers for that football club. Now, Eddie Howe, Julian Nagelsmann, Richard Pochettino, Gareth Southgate, like, their name's there. and do they really stand out? No, because you're thinking, right, I want the best in the world. Well, you go Luis Enrique or Diego Simeone. Are they leaving where they are? No, they're not. They're not.

1:09:37The amount of money they've paid out to managers they've sacked is astronomical. You've got to get the right man in there to do the right job and it's going to be tough for whatever manager comes in. But you've just got to imply your personality on the team, on the squad, and show exactly what you think you can do. Whether it be Pochettino, whether it be Eddie Howe, whoever's going to come in, they're going to think they're going to come in and be able to change things. But like I said, unless things change, you get more power. I'm not sure how much change is going to happen. Hey, we're Nick and Jack hosts of the best one yet behind every episode.

1:10:23There's research, email, spreadsheets, and our shared Google doc, the headline hammer with Google workspace with Gemini, Google's AI is built right into the premium versions of tools. We already use like Gmail docs and sheets, no new tools or extra logins, just personalized AI for the way we work. That means less time on the work around the work and more time finding the stories worth talking about. Get AI tools for work, Upgrade to Google Workspace with Gemini at go.gle slash workspace with Gemini. That's go.gle slash workspace with Gemini. The holidays are busy enough without worrying about missed calls or customers.

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1:11:43Cook when you order it. Add hot crispy fries and an ice cold Coke and hopefully a lot of napkins. All for$8. Ba-da-ba-ba-ba.

1:12:04England back to international duty this week. They're going to take on Croatia in the Nations League. Esri Konza's pulled out, but James Hill of Bournemouth. And they, strangely, you would think that you kind of associate Bournemouth with really nice attacking football. But actually, their defence has been amazing this season. So James Hill has been rewarded with his first England call-up. That's amazing for him. But they've also got Ben White in there. And he's been talking this week about being... Well, not talking. Well, he's been sort of talking this week. Yeah, that's what he was. He's been interviewed this week and talked about, you know, how to deal with being booed by your own fans.

1:12:42because he sort of pulled out of the squad, left the camp halfway through the World Cup in Qatar. Yeah. But then he gave a little bit. Mm. But... Not enough. No! We needed a little bit more, didn't we? It was like a Facebook post. They know who they are. Yeah, exactly. Them, but not that... But do you know what? There is a way of doing things. And he could have come out and just said, look, a lot of water under the bridge. Done. Park it. Yeah. Or he could have come out and said, I hate this person. This is what happened. and this is what happened. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But instead he's come out and given us, like, breadcrumbs.

1:13:17Like that. He's just gone sprinkled it. Oh, I am... A little bit of salt there. I am so desperate to know... Yeah. ...everything that went on. I think everybody is as well. I've forgotten about it. Yeah. And now... And that's the thing, it's now been brought back up again. And now I want to know. He said it was personal reasons, but, you know, loads of things that happened. Communication wasn't great. Pot kettle black. I don't want to throw anyone under the bus. A lot of people tried to do that to me, so it's something I wouldn't want to do myself. I just think about not knowing the full story.

1:13:44If the fans did, maybe they wouldn't boo. What happened? What is it? Dot, dot, dot, dot, dot. What happened? Exactly. And do you know what? Like you said, right? He's given a little bit. Yes. But just not enough. We need to know what's going on. Okay, so he's left. And do you know what? I think you're right. If he didn't bring this up, it would have been... He was asked about it. He didn't bring it up out of nowhere. He was asked about it. Yeah, and I get it. So, of course, he's going to answer. But I think, as a player, and I can't say that I've been in that situation, but you just want to go, it's done with.

1:14:23And then that's the question done. It's finished. Probably a reporter would ask you again in a different way, in a roundabout way, and you just got, listen, it's done, we're moving on. Of course, it's never nice for an England player to be booed. But I find that quite strange. as well, from that sort of fan perspective, that nobody knows what went on. Nobody does know what went on. And we know we don't know. Annoyingly, we don't know. Ben White, what's going on, please? But for a player to withdraw from an England camp is a huge decision. And I find it really strange that he's being... Yeah. You think to yourself, to be able to represent your country any game it could be friendly it's such an honour but you go to a major tournament like a World Cup and then you're just like I'm leaving we need to know what happened something went on because it all boils down to this it does it all boils down and you just want to say come on just tell us or just forget it let's just move on let's just forget it you want the fans to turn around and say listen stop booing the players let's just back the players and get on with it.

1:15:40When we went to the World Cup 2018 with Raheem Sterling, there was a lot said about him in the press. Yeah, there was a lot. And we had a big press day at St. George's Park. And us as players said, before we go to a tournament, before a ball's been kicked, we've been written off by the media. Why is it you don't back the players and then you'll see a response? Because the media's job isn't to be cheerleaders. No, of course not. It's to report on them. And what we said is, you look at every other nation at tournaments, you look at the way the media are, they're backing them, and they're helping the players before they go to a tournament, because then they don't have the fans saying this, saying that.

1:16:222018, if you look at the way England... There's a difference between wanting them to be cheerleaders and just being all positive, because to be honest, that can bring with it its own negative side as well, in terms of those expectations, and actually in 2018, England more than lived up to those expectations. But there's that, and then there's just going in wanting to criticise everything, which is probably how it feels. In fact, you were part of that England generation where that did change, actually, that kind of relationship with the media. Because 2018 started all the darts tournaments and all those kind of things.

1:16:57And that was all down to it. And this is why I don't... When people say about Gareth Southgate, he was incredible for England. and if you're a player especially that 2018 World Cup like you say the darts he was the one that said right this is what we're going to do you're going to come with us the media and we're going to interact with you but he had that as players staff and the media the interaction between everybody made that World Cup what it was like I said we went to the 2018 World Cup it was a boys holiday it was fantastic like we loved every part of it you can say that because you did well yeah of course But it was down to, I think, because Gareth put that in straight.

1:17:37Well, I couldn't say it as a boys' holiday. You got out of the group stage. We had a great time. We had a great time, though. Don't know how you felt watching it. Exactly. But you look back, and we look back at that time, and you look at everybody that was in England, the fans that were out there. It was incredible. It was unbelievable. My family was supposed to come out for the first game, fly back home, fly back home, and then come out again. They come out before the first game, and they stayed the whole tournament. They didn't go home. which then Gareth was like after the games we played you got a day off you could see fans he just knew what he was doing and I think that you know like you say the golden generation it was totally different the managers didn't couldn't work out you know to get rid of the cliques that were in there to mix the players and stuff it was so separated going back to Baden-Baden aren't we I'm not going back to Baden-Baden no no no definitely not that's what you're talking about but you know like don't Ben White us I wouldn't do that Ben White where are you the separation is different I feel really bad The man is absolutely entitled to have his own personal, private thoughts.

1:18:35But we just want to know. Yeah, and that's the thing. You know, like, we just want to know what's going on. Just a little bit. But, you know, I'm sure maybe we might find out. Who knows? I just hope the fans do the backing. Do you think he'll get a different reception this time around? I do hope so. I do hope that he's going to get a different reception. I hope that, you know, the little bit of string that he's left us with, that he turns around and he's like, right, listen, fans see that and they understand, well, there's more to it from his point of view. Maybe someone else might say something different.

1:19:09Who knows? Maybe he'll call you up after this and he'll say, Ashley, what I'd really like to do is set the record straight with you and only you. Let's go, let's do it. Right, next Tuesday, here we go. Exactly, exactly. So, yeah, we'll see you next Tuesday. Exactly. No, my God, that's the word. No, no. right we're finished we're done and seen yeah thank you and my closing words oh god i can't believe i got to week three and not said that this has been a global and the overlap production

1:19:56Hey, we're Nick and Jack hosts of the best one yet behind every episode. There's research, email, spreadsheets, and our shared Google doc, the headline hammer with Google workspace with Gemini, Google's AI is built right into the premium versions of tools. We already use like Gmail docs and sheets, no new tools or extra logins, just personalized AI for the way we work. That means less time on the work around the work and more time finding the stories worth talking about. Get AI tools for work, upgrade to Google workspace with Gemini, at go.gle slash workspace with Gemini. That's go.gle slash workspace with Gemini.

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