Goldbridge Meets Romesh, Declan Rice's Voice Note & United’s Impressive Comeback! | Overlap Daily

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2:45Morning, guys. How you doing? You all right? Morning, everyone. What a guest today, Tim. Amazing. Big guest, isn't it? Not what you would really expect on the Overlap Daily. No? Not really, no. They're quite diverse, but this man's... It's his moment, isn't it? He loves his football. Yeah. He does love his football. So I'm... It's a coup. It's good timing. It's a good signing, I'd say. My kids know about him more than I do. Really? They watch that traitors all the time. I mean, mate. Don't give it away. You're giving it away. You're a traitor. How do you know? he might be lying no he's good though right yeah I spoke to him the other day I called him I think I called him on Monday I said what are you up to he went nah I'm a bit quiet I'm not doing a lot this week I went oh great what are you doing Wednesday you're just checking in yeah but I went on this you know him well didn't you yeah League of Our Own League of Our Own we worked for seven series did you well great genuinely I love him He was on my team.

3:53John Bishop did it. Then he left. Then Jack came on. And then, obviously, this guest came on. And here he is.

4:09Romesh Ranganathan: The champ, Duke. Thank you so much. The champ. Mate, thanks for coming on. Thanks for having me. Great to see you. Great to see you. Cheers. Sit down. Thank you. just saying we've had what I've spread guys congratulations you've made it man we've got big today I was just saying so Tim great stuff yeah it's great isn't it yeah really good seven years we did on League of the Rome was it seven years yeah I don't know if he's told you give me some memories well now Jamie's a good mate but it was very much like let's treat the new boy like shit you know early doors A bit of bullying. Yeah, bullying, sort of a bit rude.

4:52Romesh Ranganathan: They would come into my dressing room when I wasn't there and use the toilet. You know, stuff like that. How did you do that a couple of times? I'm not sure either. No, it was, no, genuinely. We had some fun, though, didn't we? Well, look, League of the Rome was, I watched that show and loved it. I'd gone on as a guest a few times. I don't think, I think that show was a bit of a sitcom in terms of you had James, obviously you had Bish, and then you had Jack after that, and Freddie was on there. And it was a real, like, people were watching the interactions between you guys. And I actually think watching it, you guys really grew into it.

5:30Romesh Ranganathan: I mean, I think Jamie is, you know, as I'm sure you can imagine, I don't like to compliment him, but he became... You ended up becoming one of the most reliable kind of panel show captains you could get. When I took over and hosted, I think I always knew if I threw to Jay, he would have something. And that's what you want as a host. Your job as the host of the show is to keep all the balls in there, keep the energy going. You want to keep that show driving. And then when you've got people on there that are always going to give you something, it's a gift. I think if you want to be a good host, you don't want to make it about you, really.

6:10Romesh Ranganathan: You want to be... Yeah, yeah. Well, unfortunately, it turns out, you know, class will shine out. Do you know my favourite moment, though? I was thinking the other day. Well, we had a couple. Yeah. It was actually a mad day. Remember the day when we tried to do the challenge? The drop in the ball. The drop in the ball from a height, and we had to keep it up five times. So Romesh was on top of the crane dropping the ball. Yeah. But he was finding it very... I mean, actually, the sun was shining. And I'm the only man ever to break their arm doing a Guinness Book of Record challenge. I've gone like that.

6:39the ball was hit my wrist and broke it and he threw it so i sort of blame him for breaking my

6:45Romesh Ranganathan: it wasn't my fault but it wasn't my fault although he didn't make it out like it was my fault but you know the thing was is i was still quite new on the show right did you feel bad i felt so bad i was like jamie redneck doesn't like me now i tried to get you thrown off the show but they said no he's too funny yeah but you know what we did that afternoon or that evening what we did Stormzy, too big for my boots. That was the same day. I saw Stormzy the other day as well, but that reminded me, that was a great because you were right into that. We did big for your boots. We had our tops off. What I would say to you is Tim, I don't like taking my top off at the best of taking them.

7:21Romesh Ranganathan: Let me tell you something, if you want to feel more confident about taking your top off, don't do it next to Jamie I'm not going to lie. They actually said don't take the tops off. I was like that was good, let's do it. It was so bad because they did it like, because I did And that's when you realise how big League of Their Own was production-wise, right? Because they'll say to us, you guys do Big for Your Boots. It was great. They had the full Brit Awards set up with the rain and everything. It was their backing singers and... It was amazing. And I was like, oh, my God, this show is next to what...

7:54Romesh Ranganathan: And then we took our tops off. And so it was disgusting. What about when you... Not that I broke your wrist. Remember when you broke your wrist at the VMAX-in? Yeah, we went to the Olympic Park. It was tragic, wasn't it? Because he was going one mile an hour, and he's gone over a speed bump, and he's gone a bit wobbly and just toppled over. Well, I dislocated my thumb on one hand, I broke my wrist on the other, I was in the middle of writing a book, so I couldn't type. At one point, I was sat in the hospital, these guys stayed at the thing, I think they carried, went for some drinks or something to celebrate that I injured myself.

8:30Romesh Ranganathan: and I was sat in the hospital with this, both hands out of commission and I thought, I'm going to have to phone my wife and tell her she's going to have to wipe my arse. That was my... But then she gave the thumbs up when she did it. I said to her, I'll start with this and then you finish up. Oh, don't. Rob, we've got to talk about what everyone else is talking about in the country right now. Traitors. Yeah. How was it? It's quite a mad experience to be part of it. I think that, as I've said to you, I wasn't going to do it, and then my youngest son, Charlie, who's a massive fan of the show, he said, oh, could you do it, Dad?

9:17Romesh Ranganathan: He didn't say, could you do it? He said, it'd be really cool if you did it. How old is he? Twelve. Yeah, that age. It's amazing how it captures them. So I thought, oh, OK, I'm going to do it. but even though I've done a lot of TV Traitors is a show and these shows are rarer nowadays where everybody's watching it there's so much stuff to watch now it used to be like I'm of the age where you'd grow up and there'd be certain TV things that everybody would be talking about 12-15 million guaranteed those numbers were like all the time to have a show that exists now that most people not most people, but, you know, such a proportion of the population are watching.

10:01Romesh Ranganathan: Even for me, who's done as much TV as I have, it was a step above. Like, I was walking the dogs and people were wanting to come up to me. And I think I said to you, Tim, like, the kids coming up to you, never before have ever watched any of my stuff. Suddenly, like, they're in. So it was an interesting thing to be a part of that phenomenon. It's really immersive and hard. And if you imagine all day, every day, you are talking to people and you can't fully trust them because it's part of the game, I think that starts to get... Who's the best character in there for you? I think what's good about that show is it's 21 people you wouldn't put together.

10:42Romesh Ranganathan: I mean, look, there were a lot of comedians, and Rob Beckett is one of my best mates, and I'm really good friends with A.J. You and Jerry Hall as well hit it off, didn't you, the three of you? Me, mate. Jerry Hall and me, we're gang-gang now, man. I'm going round her. Really? It's so weird. I've become mates with Jerry Hall, which is so funny. I think it's that mix of characters. So Jerry Hall was really great. There's people that I already know. Bella Ramsey, I really got close. Obviously Bash, who I got to the final with, I really... But everyone, really. I think what's surprising for me is you go in expecting to get on with the comics, because even though we're all different, comedians are sort of wired slightly incorrectly.

11:22Romesh Ranganathan: and so that kind of brings you together. But I think it's, you know, like you said, Jay, Jerry Hall, people like that. Ross Kemp I've really got on with. Like, he's a mate now, you know, and we're going to meet up. So it's all these people that you wouldn't have expected to be friends with at the end of being mates with. So it looks like, because the castle is beautiful and it looks like you get treated well, watch the food and everyone's having a few drinks. What happens after? Where do you go? To a lovely hotel or is it...? It's not a lovely hotel. Or do you stay on where the castle is? No, no, no.

11:50Romesh Ranganathan: You don't stay. So you're not staying at the castle. Oh, really? You're staying at a hotel which is about 45 minutes from the castle. So what happens is you get picked up from your hotel, you all travel in certain groups or on your own because they've got to keep certain people away and all that kind of stuff. And then you get sent into the breakfast room. And then you do your day, and at the end of it they do the gongs, you gather out the front, and then they stagger your return to the hotel. because obviously... They've got to keep the people to go up to the town. So the traitors have the longest day because they do everything that you've done and then they do the turret stuff and decide who they're going to murder.

12:30Romesh Ranganathan: So they can't have you see them just drive around the corner so they stagger your exit. So it's quite a long day. I think it's like most days, maybe 10 till, I think 10 in the morning till I was probably getting back to about 1.32, 1am, something like that. Yeah, it's quite long. But a lot of that stands out. And when you get back to the rooms, you can't obviously speak to anyone because it ruins the game. You arrive separately and you're in your room. You don't leave your room. If you want to leave your room, you have to request it. And you have things like where you say what time you want to go out for a walk, but somebody has to escort you because they don't want members of the public coming up to you and getting game stuff.

13:11Romesh Ranganathan: So it's pretty rigorous. But what I would say is they tell you all of that before you go in. So they're not suddenly sticking it on you. Five-star hotel. Yeah, they don't tell you any of that. So when you are talking about going on the show, they go, it's going to be like this, it's going to be like this. And then so you know that's what's going to happen. But as you guys know, telling you how something's going to be and it actually being that is two different things. And for me, I really, you know, one of the things that I find so helpful sort of mentally is whenever you're doing TV or big things is to go home to your wife and children who don't really care about any of that stuff.

13:52Romesh Ranganathan: And you start talking about it, yeah. Yeah, yeah, but if you're in the game, all day, every day, you're just thinking about that. So you don't ever have that reset. You're just constantly in the thing. So it actually feels quite... Like when you went home with your three kids and that, they go, he's a traitor. Do you start pointing fingers at you? Yeah, you can't. I mean, you can't trust anybody. Do you know what I mean? I definitely thought Lisa was a traitor. 100%. Who's the biggest traitor in football? For me, personally? Yeah. A biggest arsenal traitor. Well, I mean, look, it's difficult because now I'm a bit older and now I think footballers should do whatever the hell they want to.

14:37Romesh Ranganathan: Do you know what I mean? Because it's a short career. If a club stops caring about you, they won't even think a minute before dropping you. so if you want to move to a better I just think fair play to you it's upsetting for you as an Arsenal fan but I just think you want That's why all them Tottenham fans have forgot about Sol Campbell Oh my God I vividly remember on League of the Roam once when we had Robin Van Persie lovely lad, really nice gentleman, really one of the nicest guys I've ever met he called him a prick Why? I did call him a prick because he's a prick I think there was a lot there was a lot around that transfer that as an Arsenal fan you find upsetting because Robin Van Persie was such an incredible player and he was still in his pomp when he moved to Man United.

15:22Romesh Ranganathan: And so not only are you upset with him for doing that, you're also upset about what that says about your football club because you are selling one of your best players to a rival and that felt like Arsenal, to me, as an immature football fan, I think we're letting everyone know that we're not ambitious. That's kind of how I felt. So to me that was gutting. The Ashley Cole transfer. Yeah. Heartbreaking. It was horrendous because, you know, I don't, you know, I've not got, I would say, to say that I've not got a soft spot for Chelsea would be an understatement.

16:02You're watching Overlap Daily brought to you by Sky Vegas, making sure entertainment continues between the games. Make sure you stay tuned for primetime play, where we'll be discussing this year's I'm a Celeb Lineup, But before then, I'm so excited to welcome one of my good friends, Romesh Ranganathan, to the show. Hope you enjoy.

16:36I think we need to establish as well, not only are you doing training, but you're on this show because you love football. You've always been fascinated. You love Arsenal. It's your team. who was the player that made you fall in love with Arsenal?

16:47Romesh Ranganathan: For me, growing up, I loved Ian Wright so much. And I think that... Does that shirt behind you remind you of Wrighty a bit there? I don't know, it actually reminds me of Henri. Yeah, yeah. There's Wrighty. I've got a signed Ian Wright shirt up at home. Like, he... I think that, you know, sometimes it's not just what they do. and obviously he was such a great goal scorer. It's the way he carried himself. When you see him in interviews, it's sort of like your favourite musician or whatever. I just really liked him. But the other player that I would say, and obviously there are, we can talk about the Invincibles and that great team.

17:33Romesh Ranganathan: When we signed Dennis Bergkamp, that to me was like, it was almost like not a turning point but I couldn't believe that Arsenal had signed somebody of that of that stand he was such an incredible he wasn't great, Rom, when he first came it did take a while Bruce Riott signed him I was going at the same time I spoke to Bruce Riott about coming to Arsenal and then he rung me one day because we lived in Harping in Hertfordshire and I thought it was like just arranging to meet up and then he rings me up and he says, I've got the sack. I said, you are joking. He goes, no, I've got the sack. Do you know what's crazy?

18:19Fenger comes in and... I reckon, this is true, Bruce Reeock was trying to sign me as well at the same time. Was he? I wonder if he was a traitor move on. Maybe they got wind of the fact that he was trying to sign me and you. Get rid of this clown. So would you say you're like a proper super fan?

18:40Romesh Ranganathan: I'm not a super fan in terms of... But you go to all the games, right? I do go to a lot of the games, yeah. I'm not like this mad stat-o or whatever. But what I do think is, you know, my dad loved Arsenal. My boys all love Arsenal. My wife loves Arsenal. When an Arsenal game is on at home or when we're at a game, I'm looking around at my kids screaming and shouting and going crazy. crazy and I just think what a great product this is. You know what I mean? It's such amazing drama and even I'm so much older now, even when Arsenal lose, that's part of our story. I sort of think this pain is, there's something beautiful about that pain and so I do love it.

19:22Romesh Ranganathan: So at the beginning of this season my son my second son has become, Alex who you know, he's really sort of a hardcore Arsenal fan and he sat me down when we were away on holiday and he says, Dad, I'd really love if we could to go to as many Arsenal games as we can. And to me, as a dad, I think to myself, there's going to come a time when he wants to watch these with someone else. You know, I really want to make sure. So this season in particular, well, I've been doing it for years and years and years, but this season I've started moving work to accommodate taking Lisa and the kids to the games.

19:56They look after you, Rom, there.

19:59Romesh Ranganathan: They, well, the club do. They will now. Yeah, they need to. They will. What's your demands now? What are you saying? I think I want a specific kind of... In the diamonds? Yeah, all of that, you know, hospitality. No, but I'll tell you, so I went to the, I think it was the Leeds game a few games ago, or the Everton game, I can't remember which one. But anyway, I'm walking up to the ground. I was meeting Leeds from the kids on the way because I was doing something else. I run up behind them. I catch up with the boys and I go, come on, you gunners or whatever. I draw attention to myself, which Lisa was furious about, all the way up to the ground, a thousand people chanting, Romesh is a traitor, as I walk up to the ground.

20:41Romesh Ranganathan: What was your... A little one of those. Yeah, but I was going like this, and the boys were going, oh, this is cool. Lisa, she was not happy. She didn't tell anyone. Pardon? No, they wanted to... Everybody's asking you for the result. I tried to call you a couple of weeks. We speak every time. If he calls me, we answer the phone to each other. I called you a couple of weeks and you didn't answer. And that's why I thought he's gone deep in me. Yeah. I want to ask you one last question on the Traitors. Yeah, go on. Because, like, right now, you're enjoying the credit. I'm a Traitors winner. But is it like a bit of a hollow victory?

21:11Because if it wasn't for Bash, like, really, you're not a lot to do with it. You wanted to pick the wrong player. You know, you were going to get...

21:20Romesh Ranganathan: You were going for the wrong man. What I would say in response to that... You were barking up the wrong players. Can I just say, in response to that, first of all, let's be clear. I'm doing this as a favour to you. I came on your podcast. For you to now pin me down on... No, OK, so here's the honest truth. Go on. I didn't trust anybody apart from Bash going into that fire pit, right? How did you know Bash wasn't? I just knew. I don't know how to explain it. I just knew that Bash was a faithful. Everybody else... Probably, actually, weirdly, Leanne, I didn't think was a traitor either. But because she'd voted me at the previous roundtable, I thought I can't have somebody that's going to vote for me here.

21:56Romesh Ranganathan: So I thought, first thing you've got to do is get rid of Leanne. and then I thought let's get rid of James and then I thought let's get rid of Kenny because even though I didn't think Kenny was a traitor I didn't definitely not think he was a traitor and if you're in the fire pit as soon as you've got a suspicion about anybody why bother risking it you might as well just get rid of everyone you're unsure of and so it was Bash that said to me listen I think we should win this with James because I'm convinced he's a faithful and I got dazzled by what Maya had said and what James had said in response And so then I was like, are you sure?

22:30Romesh Ranganathan: And he said, yeah. And that's when I decided to go green. But by that point, James was so upset with me. He was really... His lip was going. Yeah. Do you feel a bit bad about that now? Would you like to make an apology to James or not really? Well, look, you know, James knows how I feel about him. It's over. No, no, no. No, in all seriousness, I've said to James, you know, he recovered from that almost immediately. in terms of his annoyance about it. But yeah, we're mates. I get on with James. He's such a top bloke. He was such a great presence to have in the castle. And actually, that was one of the reasons that...

23:06Romesh Ranganathan: Because I think if I was a traitor, I would be thinking I just want to disrupt that group as much as possible. And so I would have killed James Blunt because he was so good in the missions and stuff. And I know it's about raising money for charity. But at the same time, him and Michael Sheen had quite a reassuring presence to the group. So I think, why not get rid of them? and then everybody's like on edge. And so that's why their ongoing survival made me more suspicious of that thing. If you had to do it again, are you pleased you was a faithful or would you rather have been a traitor? I don't know if I'd rather be a traitor, but I think that...

23:40Romesh Ranganathan: I was interested in being a faithful because I think it's a trickier, more subtle game you have to play. Essentially, it's a bit passive because you have to not draw attention to yourself too much but do enough that people don't want to banish you. I think as a traitor, you're really driving that. That is, you're much more in control of the game than if you're a fan. If you go in again with that experience of already being in there, do you win it? No. I think that it helps, but anybody that saw it knows there are people that were better at the game than me that didn't make it through to the end.

24:14Romesh Ranganathan: Miranda Hart, much better at finding traitors than me. Michael Sheen, much better at finding traitors. The downfall of them was they let on that they were good at finding traitors and said the traitors were like, let's get rid of them. So there's so many different little elements to it. I think, as a faithful, it's such a thin line between a great game and an awful one. You know, I could have easily got murdered. There's a couple of times when I should have got... I actually think I should have got murdered. Right. And if that had happened, I would have deserved that. You know, there's so much...

24:44Romesh Ranganathan: When you're a faithful, there's so much luck that you have to rely on in order to get through. It's not just a... I remember... It brings you back... Remember when you were in the... What's it called when you go in the room again? The turret or the round table. Remember when you got in the round table? It reminds me of being in the dressing room. You know when the manager gets up to speak and it's like, oh, those nerves. Did you... Was it like... Were you so into it that you actually got nervous or were you a bit like, oh, I've had enough now. I don't care if I go. No. Well, no. Not that I didn't care if I go, but I sort of thought I'm just here to play the game and whatever happens, happens.

25:13Romesh Ranganathan: I wasn't like, I've got to win this. But the way they do the round table, your adrenaline sort of... Yeah, through the roof, isn't it? Yeah. And the whole way through the game, I never got... Nobody stuck it on me the whole way through the game. And so then when other people were defending themselves, I would think, oh, just relax a bit, mate. You're just getting an accusation, just bat it away. As soon as I got accused, mate, you're just like, oh, I have to hear you. I have to hear you. You know, you just get this, like, the chemicals in your system or whatever. It's mad. You don't realise until you're...

25:45Romesh Ranganathan: And I think watching you don't even realise that when you're sat at the thing and somebody's coming for you, You can't help it. But, Jay, you were... I think if you were thinking about going... Well, I got asked to do this series. Right. So why didn't you do it? Well, no, they said, like, some of your friends are going to be on it, and I found out it was you, and I thought, well, he's not my mate. Last word, that one. No, genuinely, I don't think... I just don't think I'll be very good at it. I think he'd be great. Would he? What would he be? I'd want to be a traitor. Oh, no, no, you're a cook.

26:13Romesh Ranganathan: What? Why? What are you saying? No. No, sorry. I would be a great traitor. I've got weasel tendencies. I thought you meant as a faithful. No, I'm a traitor. There's a traitor you'll cook. Why? There's no way. Sorry. Listen. I know you're not supposed to limit your friends. You have got no friends. Why? Why not? That's not true. I just thought you'd crumble so much. Oh, I'd crumble for sure. But Alan Carr crumbled and he still won. But Richard E. Grant, he was good when he told everyone he was a traitor. That would be my move, wouldn't it? I was just supposed to be a secret.

26:48This episode is sponsored by Huel, official nutrition partner of Overlap Daily. Right, Tim, that time again. In partnership with Huel, you and I are going to discuss one less thing in football. Now, we've had a few discussions, haven't we? Shim pads last week, wasn't it, I think? Yeah, holes. Holes in the socks. What is the one thing you would like to see one less of in football? Well, I need to. This is what needs to come out of the game. Players. You've been thinking about this, haven't you? Yeah, I hate this. I hate this. And every time someone does it, I just can't have it. It just winds me up.

27:17But players winding up the crowd like this. The team might be losing in the game. Kunia did it at Old Trafford. He went down the bottom corner. He's like this to the crowd. And then you put the camera pans to the crowd and all giving it, get on with your own job. Have you got liberty? Absolutely disgusting. I hate it. Straight red card. Anyone who does that, surely they've got to get booked. If they do it again, send them off. Odegaard does it a lot. There's ones who are serial performers of it. So you're going to send someone off for going to the trap again? Yeah, nonsense. What are they doing?

27:51Go yellow. What are they doing? I was going to say, you know, like, standing ovations or celebrating tackles in the area, but this one winds me up more than anything. Yeah. It winds me up. Why are these people paying their money? They're paying a lot of money to go and watch you. They're 2-0 down. Yeah, I know. You're meant to get stuck in, have a run around. Actually, you've turned me around now. I think you could be right. Straight red. One less thing in football. telling your fans to get behind them. Waving your arms around. Instead of running more, tackling more, and trying a bit more. Yeah.

28:20Like, the manager should be standing there. Oh, Michael Carrick should be doing that to his players all day. Shouldn't he? 95 minutes, he should be doing that. You know what I mean? If it makes a difference. You're livening yourself up. Don't worry about the fans. Yeah, all right. You having it? Yeah, I'm having it. Yeah, and I actually remember it. It was down in the left-hand side. Couldn't you? It goes out to the crowd. Yeah, it's a liberty. Yeah, If I paid big money to watch Absolute Dross and the player does that to me, I'd be going, you've got some front. Who are you kidding? Yeah. Yeah, all right.

28:51Straight red. Get them out. Get them out. Okay. Do you think the Premier League will have that one? Yeah. Howard Webb will get on it. Howard Webb. All right, brilliant. One less thing of football. Players telling the fans to get going. Yeah? Get rid of it. Get out. Nonsense. The verdict's in. Footballers who waved their arms to liven up the crowd. is gone. Finished. Red card. Well, that's one less thing in football. And with Huel, we've got one less thing to think about when it comes to your nutrition. Huel is a complete meal in a bottle, high in protein, high in fiber, and with all essential vitamins and minerals.

29:26Save 10 pounds on your first order with the code DAILY at checkout. Just go to Huel.com forward slash DAILY. What's one less thing you would like to see removed from football? Let us know in the comments.

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31:47I'm pleased to say Mark Goldbridge from United Stand joins us now. How are you doing, Mark? I'm good, thank you. Very, very happy to be on the show, especially as I was a big fan of Celebrity Traitors. My first season watching any of it. So I'm a converter now, if that's what they call it. I'm converted.

32:04Romesh Ranganathan: Oh, thank you. That was always my mission, was to convert as many as possible. You obviously know Mark and what he does. Mark, I'm a fan, man. I think you're great. Oh, thank you. So it's nice to know. Would you ever go on it, Mark? I don't think I'm enough of a celebrity to do it, but I would love to do it. My only problem is I would just think you're a bit of a target. It's a tough game to play. You've almost got to play a bit dumb at times, because if you show any evidence that you know what you're on about, they'll kill you off, won't they? You might get a United job. You're not saying you were stupid, by the way.

32:39Romesh Ranganathan: No, no, I get what you're getting at, Mark. Yeah, I understand. I dumbly managed to make my way to the fight. No, you're right. The truth is you have to try and figure out what's going on, but not let on that you know too much what's going on, because then you highlight yourself to them and then you're gone. And that's what... Everybody was talking about Michael Sheen's vengeful daddy day, But the problem was, because he ended up going for James in the way that he did, the trades were just like, this guy's got to go now. So it's really tricky to figure out how to play it. But I think you'd be good, Mark.

33:12And Mark's obviously smashed it with the streaming and everything like that. How would you do it if you did it for Arsenal? I think you should start your own thing. Absolutely not.

33:20Romesh Ranganathan: The clock end? Mark, I think you're a fantastic talent. I think the way that you do it is great. I couldn't do what you do. it's it's uh it's a really interesting you know and i think the way that that you do it is it's you know it's a lot of how my my kids are you know i'm seeing my kids in the way they consume football uh and mark is a perfect example of that of that kind of uh it's it's it's connecting with it in a way that um is accessible and and and you can see the passion it's combination of passion and knowledge and it's relatable and all of that and i and i think what you do is excellent i I couldn't I don't think I think I actually think that people like you might make it look a lot easier than it actually is I can't even imagine the amount of work that goes into doing what you do but you're brilliant you're really good mate let's talk about last night Mark unbelievable game I was watching we were all watching just amazing at 2-0 down looked like you were dead and buried and then obviously Michael is now back in the game yeah look I think you guys will know more from an ex-player their point of view, but I even said at half-time, a lot of people were like, sack him on the pitch, get rid of him, sack him all.

34:33And I was like, I think there's a way back into this game because Roma, I think naively, and I only found out this morning, they did it against Real Madrid, they were 3-1 up and they lost 4-3. And they were playing so open and I think at 2-0 at half-time if I was them, and it could have been 3 or 4-0, I'd have just shut up the shop because we can't play against the low block and I would have counted, but they didn't. They left so much space And it was almost like if United could just stop hitting the long ball, which we did, and move the ball a bit better, you were going to get chances. So, look, it was a good result for United, but no Premier League club's going to play like that.

35:09At half-time, I can only imagine, I've been in dressing rooms when you're 2-0 down. I remember being 3-0 down against Manchester United. Well, we actually come back at 3-1, Cluffy scored just before half-time and sitting in there going, oh my God, this is a dark place. and we weren't perhaps in as much of a dark place as what this United team was. But you have to credit Michael, the team, for coming back. Obviously, he made some early substitutions as well. And a lot of people said he probably wanted to be out the door. He doesn't want to take that job. And I looked at his face at the end. That looked like a man that was so happy and thought, you know what, I can do this.

35:43I can turn this around. Did you get that feeling? No. No. Oh, that's good. I genuinely no no I mean I reluctantly I was Carrick out about two weeks ago which is ridiculous after two months but I've seen enough and if he wants look I like Michael Carrick I feel he was a legend of Man United and he comes across as a nice guy but as a coach I think he's totally responsible with the players for where we are and if he can go and win five of our next seven and you asked me this in December I might say yeah look let's give him a chance but half a game of football against the Roma side that was wide open it's not it's not got me convinced I still think there's huge huge problems and I don't fundamentally think he's up for the job but I'd love to get proved wrong on that but I can't be a hypocrite it took me a while to decide he wasn't the right guy I'm not going to flip back after 45 minutes but I enjoyed it it was nice to win it was it's been a long time it was different Mark, it was a great atmosphere there last night.

36:52It was good to see Old Trafford back to that. They are so forgiving, aren't they? Them United fans. I mean, even when it's not been going well, they're applauding some of the players. I mean, if I was a United fan, I had to watch that over the last 10 years or so. I couldn't stand there and clap them players off the pitch. And I've been in the game. I just think they're amazing fans. Incredible. Almost to the detriment of what needs to happen there, Tim, to be honest, because I think that you're right. They are amazing. Away support at Chelsea, applauding them. You know, we were terrible. The same yesterday.

37:28And the sad thing about it is the cynic in me says, look, it's amazing support, but do we do ourselves problems with that? Because all it ultimately does is protect the Jason Wilcoxers, the Omar Baradas, but more importantly, the owners. Who's the real winner out of this? they are because they know that no matter how bad things are, the Old Trafford support, the away support are going to applaud it. I don't think that happens at other clubs. I don't think Liverpool fans would do this. I certainly don't think some fans abroad would do it. But it's very hard to bring about change when you can be in a relegation fight, which was what we are, and fans are still applauding it.

38:09But yeah, I'm not criticising the fans for that but in any way shape or form you know we've got amazing fans but you sometimes do look at it and go no wonder we have the owners we have because we don't put enough pressure on them

38:24Romesh Ranganathan: Mark can I ask you do you is it obvious to you what's wrong there like do you feel like there are simple solutions that would that would improve things drastically yeah and I think a lot of a lot of United fans see it as well um it's just getting to that point I think that um when you look at what Liverpool did with Klopp or what you look at what Arsenal have done with Arteta I'd like to say City but we we found out what they did didn't we so we can't really praise it but realistically you need to football shouldn't be a business it can be a business but fundamentally it should be about football if United had an owner that who was driven by being the best football team in the world then every decision you make is about being that um so you do have the best in class director of football you do have the best in class manager you do pursue the best players and you know i haven't done that for about 15 years and that's why we are where we are but we also have people who who are focused on business our big motivation at the moment is to build a stadium to bring more fans in who want to buy things in the megastore um at the at the detriment of you know probably hardcore match going fans who turn up with their ticket and don't buy sub stuff in the megastore.

39:37So we're just a business model at the moment. We need to be a football model. And I do genuinely think it can change really quickly because there are clubs in the Premier League that have that at their core. I mean, even a team like Brighton, I don't think they're trying to win the league, but they have a very definitive idea of who they are, how they want to play. And it's very successful for them. And Michael as well, it was obviously a huge result for him. Another game before the dreaded international break. Do you still think he'll be the manager after the international break? Yeah, I think that rightly or wrongly, the club's appetite, and I think one of you mentioned it maybe last week, last time I was on.

40:16Again, it's not a football decision, isn't it? The board picked Carrick, and you feel that if Carrick gets sacked, the board members might go. So they're not going to want to get rid of him. So Jim Radcliffe would have to spend 10, 20, 30 million pounds to replace him, and he doesn't want to spend money. So I think their aim is to keep Carrick. the way he stays in a job is winning games like last night. I think as long as he avoids a loss against Villa, he will be here beyond the international break. And I think we will do that. I think we will. Yeah. Mark, I'm sure you know this, but it's 40 years this Friday since Alex Ferguson joined Manchester United and obviously the rest is history.

40:56Do you think, I mean, this is a tough question for a Man United fan, do you think it's going to be another 40 years before you win a title? I thought you were going to say, do you think Michael Carrick can be the next Sir Alex Ferguson, in which case I was going to say, it's a very easy question. No, no. You've already explained your feelings there. Yeah, no, I think, I don't think, I don't think there's a manager out there that can make Man United great again, because I think football is so much about what's going on above now. The days of managers like Brian Clough or Sir Alex Ferguson running football clubs, I think are gone or Arsene Wenger.

41:31So, no, I think it has to be a lot higher. higher than that. Why is that, Tim? You don't agree? I don't agree. I don't agree. I think Unai Emery is running the whole shebang there at Aston Villa and you can see the success he's bringing. I think a huge club like Manchester United, I've said it last week, I don't think you're going to be able to bring him there. That says everything. He won't leave Aston Villa, even though it's a huge club Villa, to go to Manchester United. I don't think it will happen. Jamie and Harry disagreed with me, but I just think he runs the whole show there and that's what he wants to do.

42:02I still think that managers are capable of running the whole shebang. Yeah, no, I agree with you, Tim, but that's my point. At United, they don't want that model. They want this head coach. I agree with you. I think if you allowed a manager to come in and run it, which is what Sir Alex did and other managers, then yeah, no, I don't disagree with you. But knowing the way they want to run it at United, they almost want this head coach that they control. I mean, we're hearing that Michael Carrick didn't even pick his summer signings, which is mad to me. If I was Michael, I would definitely be distancing myself from them signings because not too many of them look too good, really, do they?

42:40Whoever bought Santos in, no disrespect, it was like that is such a bad signing for Manchester United. You did not need him. No, and you look at Balaba last night. We bought him injured. Why is he getting injured just sprinting? And apparently he's not had these problems at Brighton. and Sesco the year before, another£70 million player, he's constantly injured. I don't think that's bad luck, by the way. I think whether it's how we train them when we get them or how we assess them before we get them, but we seem to buy it. And Dorgu's the same. And I don't think Sesco, Dorgu and Belaba were injury-prone before they came to Old Trafford, but there's a lot of money locked up in players that just seem to get injured very quickly at United.

43:29So there'll be a few traitors at Old Trafford right now that you'd like to banish, I guess, then, Mark? Oh, yeah. No, I'd like to be the traitor. Well, can I say it on here? I won't say the M word. I'd get rid of a lot, yeah. Not many of them would be waking up. Let's put it that way. Mark, thank you so much for joining us as always, mate. Pleasure. Thank you. And pleasure to speak to you, Ravish, as well.

43:54Romesh Ranganathan: You too, mate. See you soon.

44:01Welcome to Primetime Play with Sky Vegas. Tim, the I'm a Celeb 2026 line-up's been announced. Some great names. He's not, is he? He's in. He ain't in. Wazza. Oh, Wazza. No, I ain't having him in there. Oh, I love him in there. He's going to be amazing. I don't believe he's going in there until I see it. He is in. I never would have dreamt he would have gone in there. How good is it, though? Well, Killeen won it two years ago. So Wayne is going to go in there, going to try and do the double. He's got to be favourite straight away, isn't he? He's got to be favourite. He'd be brilliant. because he's funny.

44:29Everyone loves him. He's looking a million dollars. He's looking a million dollars. Yeah, he's had a proper glow up. Yeah. Lee Francis, Keith Lemon, Claire Sweeney, Joanne Page from Gavin and Stacey. She's great. Ricky Wilson. He's in there, Ricky, isn't he? But the one that stands out is Wayne Rooney, isn't he? He's going to be unreal. I think he'd be really good at it. I really do. I think he could lose his shit in there. Well, get down with people. Yeah, that'd be great. It's what everyone wants to see. So it'll be really interesting to see how he copes with it. I love people going in there who don't need to go in there.

45:04Yeah. You know, he ain't going in there. What's he going to get for that? It doesn't matter what you give him. He's got more money than God. Yeah. You know, he don't need to go in there, but he wants to. What would you struggle with most? And what would be your... Easy. Go on. Heights. Really? And going, heights I can't do. I really can't do. I'd have to go mind over matter with that. I'd really struggle, Jay. Yeah. and go in them tanks and they fill them up with water. Yeah, claustrophobic. Yeah. Now, my hands are sweating. Yeah. And what about your luxury item? What did you take in there? Boring one, I suppose, but it's going to maybe give you a night's sleep pillow.

45:41Pillow. Yeah, I like that one. And then you have your picture of your family on it, you know, cheese in it, but, you know, I think that's what I'll do. When my dad went in, that was funny. Dad was good. It was good. But he was always going to win, wasn't he? Well, yeah, no, I don't know. That's the thing. You know Dad really well. You obviously, because when he was your manager. But my worry for him going in there was, he doesn't suffer falls very easily. So if someone winds him up the wrong way, it could get to him and he'll just like, oh, I've had enough of this, just leave. No, but clever with it.

46:10Yeah, but I think, but that's that thing. It's that sort of Stockholm syndrome. When you're in there and everyone, like, you get so into it that you end up showing the true colours in the end. You know what I mean? You end up thinking it's all right being in there. Looking from the outside when I watch it, I just think if you're in there, you've got to keep yourself busy. you've got to have them jobs. You know, like people say, oh, I don't want to do that. I don't want to do a job. Get fit. I've got to get the wood. I'll do all that. I'll do it. Keep me busy, get my mind off it. I can't. You know what I could see you doing?

46:36Because when you get really fit, get the speedos on in the shower, you'd love that when you get tense your abs up. Big up Barbie.

46:47I'm like you, Tim. I couldn't get in there with rats and snakes. I could do that. I could definitely have it. You know, like when you've got to go in somewhere and it's confined and it's claustrophobic and it's dark and it's really close to you? Yeah, nah. Like, I can't do that. I'm all right with heights. On League of the Own, I got better at doing it because of all the stupid challenges we did. I got better and I sort of got, like you said, mind over matter. But those ones like that and a rat crawling or a snake, things like that, nah, not for me. Nah. But I am definitely going to be watching Wayne Rooney on I'm a Selec.

47:18100%. 100 % I'm tuning in for that. Thank you very much for that, Sky Vegas. and we'll be back next week with more Primetime Entertainment.

47:29Current Arsenal. We spoke about the past. We spoke about your love for Reem Wright. Yeah. Is Mikel Arteta the best manager in the Premier League? Look at your face, Nat. Is he... You love him, right? Best manager in the Premier League?

47:45Romesh Ranganathan: Who is there? Who is there now? You've got Una, haven't you? Let's go through. Unai for me. I think he's quality. And, you know, I think that it was unfortunate for both parties that he took over at Arsenal when he did. I think that, you know, you've got that rebound thing. Mikel Arteta, as you know, and I'm sure, I know how you guys are going to tell me the same, but Mikel Arteta is weirdly divisive, right? because he's put together an incredible squad and that team does what they're supposed to do very, very effectively. The thing that splits people is that it's fair to say it's a little bit workmanlike and it's not as exciting and they're not as adventurous as some people would like them to be.

48:37Romesh Ranganathan: When I went to the Everton game, they came out of Arsenal and they were really exciting, right? and it was really free-flowing until they got the goal. And then they were just like, not sitting back necessarily, but it became very kind of, they weren't doing that anymore. And I remember thinking, I wonder why that is. So you can see that Arsenal can play like that if they want to. And then I watched Arteta's interview afterwards, and he said, we'd had a really tough schedule because we'd had the Champions League. And I told them, let's try and put this to bed as soon as we possibly can, because what we don't want to be doing is chasing a goal 70 minutes on.

49:13Romesh Ranganathan: And so then you go, okay, so the reason they were playing exciting in that moment is because Mikel had said to them, really go for it. And then once you've wrapped this up. And so that is not, you know, I'm old enough to remember like the Wenger teams, you know, and that was like really exciting. Yeah. And Arsenal can be exciting, but I do understand the criticism. I'm not so blinkered. Do you care, Ron? Not when they're lifting trophies, I suppose. No. So, you know what I'd say to you, Tim, is that is fun as long as you're winning. If you're not winning, and I know this sounds obvious, but what I mean is you don't mind the football if you're lifting trophies.

49:53Romesh Ranganathan: But if you have to watch that football, if you had to watch boring football, I'm not saying it's boring, please don't at me, but if you're watching football that's less exciting, let's say, or less adventurous, and then you don't go on to win anything, then that is a very frustrating place to be as a fan. It's exactly the same as a player, Gino. Yeah. If you're playing in a team that's very defensive, if you win, you don't care. Don't care. Yeah, don't care. That's the question, do you? But if you're not winning and you're playing negative football... Question of tactics. Of course. I think this year, Ron, I don't think there's been a bigger certainty to win the title than Arsenal this season.

50:26And that's not me trying to deflect or... Arsenal, right, if they don't win the title this season, I just do not see any other runners. I don't see Man City. I don't see... Obviously, Liverpool are going to be OK. They're going to get better maybe next season. but I think Arsenal are going to win it by at least 10 points. Not Chelsea, nowhere near it. Nowhere near it.

50:44Romesh Ranganathan: I thought coming into the season, Chelsea would have something to do. Surely, so you must feel so confident you're going to do two in a row. I think there's a good chance. And can you maybe even create a dynasty? It's got that feeling. Well, I think obviously that's what he's trying to do and I think that we are living in an era now where Premier League teams are, and I'm aware I'm talking to two people that know loads more about this than I do, but we are living in an era where managers don't get backed in the same way that they used to and I think Mikel Arteta's been backed. I remember when he first started, I was sitting in the grounds and people going, we need this guy out of our club.

51:19Romesh Ranganathan: This is his first job. What is he doing managing Arsenal? And Arsenal rode that out and decided, this is the guy that we're going to back. Got with a Lacazette, a Bama Yang. Yeah, all of that. A Bama who? But honestly, everybody's sort of going, I love Arteta now. I remember people going, this guy's got... We've got to get rid of this guy. Why did we appoint this guy? Not everybody, but enough that it was a thing. And the pundits were doing it. They lost to Redford on their first game of the season, I think, on a Friday night, lost two nils, and everyone was like, nah, he can't last. That's why the IROC had to take a lot of credit.

51:53Romesh Ranganathan: Yeah, because they backed him despite that. Do you remember there was that run where we were bottom of the league for a while, and they just were... They were just not getting the results. And people were getting really... Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they were trying to play out from the back and it wasn't working and it was just a bit embarrassing. And then, you know, I remember the fans were just going, what are you doing? Stop doing this. But Arteta had his way of doing it. They backed him. And I think that's what he's aiming for. And I think it's partly that Arsenal have backed him. And I think it's partly that other teams don't seem to back their managers.

52:23Romesh Ranganathan: I think, you know, the appointments happen. They're too knee-jerk. And then as soon as the results go, and I understand that because there's money and all of that. But as soon as the results don't go their way. Patience. Yeah, I think a bit of patience and going, do we believe in this person? If we're going to believe in them, you don't just believe in them for a season, you believe in them for a little bit of time. And I think I am happy in the way that Arsenal have conducted that, in terms of going, Arteta's our guy, let's see what happens. So if you retain it, if you win the Champions League, you've got to be the greatest manager of all time at Arsenal now, over Wenger.

53:02Wow. this is Paxman here right now yeah this is really you've got to answer this

53:08Romesh Ranganathan: this is going to be a light chat Rom you'll have a lot of fun that wasn't me saying that I don't know it's difficult it's got to be if you win the big one the Champions League I mean the Champions League obviously is Arsenal fans have become obsessed with the Champions League yeah because yeah that's the one because it's the chant that we all get you know and but but I don't know, Arsene Wenger did... Arsene Wenger... You know the music that you listened to when you were 16 to 24? That music stays with you forever. You've got a special relationship. Paul Weller. There you go. I've got a special relationship with the Wenger era.

53:48Romesh Ranganathan: When I was... In my formative years of being a football fan, that's what I loved. And I sat and I watched Arsenal play incredible football. I remember we lost 2-0 to Deportivo in the Champions League and the ground was still rocking because we love that team so much. Imagine that. That doesn't happen. And with Arsenal in particular. And I remember just thinking, this is so good. And also, I think sometimes people forget what Arsene Wenger did for the Premier League. Three Premier League wins and seven FA Cup. That puts it into context a little bit of how far he's still got to go with Mikel Arteta.

54:22Romesh Ranganathan: But also changed the culture of the club. And a lot of people took... He added to Tony Adams' career. He took those players and he brought a new regime in. And, you know, you think about how a lot of those players that were there when he joined, what their lifestyles were like before he joined and what they became after that. And a lot of other teams sort of took that. Everyone copied. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so I think that... More professional. Yeah. And then the set-up of the new ground, all of that. And, you know, him working on the financial constraints that he had. Everybody was moaning. But he still managed to keep Arsenal competitive despite those constraints of them trying to get into this new ground.

55:00Romesh Ranganathan: So he's got a long way to go. I personally think so. I think if they win it back-to-back and they win the Champions League, he's the greatest manager. Really? Yeah. Anyone can win the FA Cup. Any team can win that. And who's your favourite player now?

55:21Romesh Ranganathan: I love Gabriel. I've got a soft spot. Let's change that answer. You love Declan Rice, OK? So who is your favourite player now? It's Declan Rice. Really? Why do you love him so much? No, please, just go with it. So who's your favourite player now? I mean, I love a lot of them. I love this whole team, actually. There are a couple of exceptions, I won't name them.

55:48I mean, Declan Rice is the man. Really? But how much? Do you love him? You know everything about him? I've got a bit of a thirsty... Have you? Appetite for him?

55:57Romesh Ranganathan: No. You know when he came on League of the Road? Yeah. Rice, rice, baby. Yeah, and then I tried to keep in touch with him. Yeah. It was a one-sided relationship. Really? Well, it's funny that, because I've actually spoke to him today, and he's got, because you said, obviously, you're a big fan of his, he wanted to know how big a fan you were. Are you wishing you said Gabriel now? Yeah. Romesh, hey there, mate, it's Depp. I just wanted to send you a quick voice note to say I know how big of an Arsenal fan you are. I really want to know how big of an Arsenal fan you are. Who did I score my first goal for Arsenal against?

56:37Let's go, boys.

56:43Let's see how much you are a real fan of Arsenal and Beckham Rice.

56:51Romesh Ranganathan: Who did he score his first goal? Did you know? No. No idea. No idea. And it's a good club. Actually, it was a great one to score your first goal against.

57:10I don't know. Are they a huge club, but a shit team? 2023, 3rd of September.

57:19Romesh Ranganathan: I wish Alex was here. He would know. Sir Alex. Yes, Sir Alex. He always helps you out with the Arsenal stats. I don't know. Do you want to know? Yeah. Let's see what Declan has to say.

57:34Answer. Manchester United. Enjoy, boys.

57:40Romesh Ranganathan: Can we snip around this? Yeah. Manchester United, was it? I was good. Well done, mate. Well done. Oh, that's embarrassing. It's not really. Well, do you know what? It's a tough question. You know what I said to you? I'm not a Stato. But, like, I think, like, the way that kids consume football now is so different. So, Alex, my second son, he will tell you every result from the last two years at Arsenal. And he'll know scorers and everything. I just didn't grow up. I just didn't. I don't have that at all. Declan, I'm sorry. I love you so much. He's good, right? But that was... I know you changed your number.

58:20I've got it here, but I won't give it to you. So you mentioned the Invincibles. Yeah. I'm going to give you a little bit of a challenge and a bit of a test. We can all join in on this one because we both played against the Invincibles. And when I look at Arsenal now, there is an element of what... Oh, thank you so much. What they were, you know, in terms of... Do you remember being in the tunnel playing against them, Tim, and just looking at them thinking, look at the size of them. Yeah. All huge athletes, great players. Fantastic technically. and obviously without the sprinkling of the stardust with the likes of Thierry Henry.

58:52So I want you to pick your best 11 between... You're getting nervous now. This is like the round table, isn't it? I was told this was going to be a laugh. No, it's not a laugh. This is serious stuff. This is the overlap daily, Romesh.

59:04Romesh Ranganathan: You guys are used to giving football opinions publicly. I'm not. No, but this is it. Yeah, but I've seen what people are like. So what we're going to do, you've got a choice. We're going to play 4-3-3, because obviously Invincible's a bit 4-4-2 more, but we're going to pick that system. Why? Why have you done that? Because we want to make it simple. So we're going to go to goalkeeper first of all. Are you going to choose Jens Lehmann or David Rea? OK, so I actually think this is probably the tough, maybe up there with the toughest one

59:33Romesh Ranganathan: because I think David Rea is technically unbelievable. And I remember when we first signed him, I thought, why have we bothered to, you know, because we had Aaron Ramsdow in goal and I was thinking, why do we need David Rea? He's coming to his own like unbelievable keeper. What he doesn't have that Jens Lehmann had was that presence in the box. He's a proper character. I like a character. So this is a difficult one. Do you remember Jens? He used to hate you. You know when he gets around a goalie he used to tread on his toes and all that. You hate all that. I just think too much for me. There's only one answer.

1:00:13Well, I'm going with David Rea all day. That's what I was going to say. I mean, I score past. He's quick. Yeah, he reads it better. Well, I didn't know that. You knew that. So David Rea. Yeah. Okay, right back. Lauren or Timber or Ben White? I personally would go Timber for this.

1:00:33Romesh Ranganathan: I think he's technically unbelievable. I know that coming back from injury, he hasn't been quite on it. But I think he's... Actually, when he's at his best, I can't quite believe how good he is. There you go. Timber right back. Centre backs, you've got Sol Campbell and Toure from the Invincibles. And then you had, obviously, Gabriel and Saliba. World-class defenders. This is a hard one. There's a couple of things that are hard about this. I mean, I think Toure doesn't make the cut here. Even though I love Khaled Toure. Great player, don't you? Really great player. and you know like some players you just love how they carry themselves on the pitch I love them so much so I think Saul Campbell is in then it's Saliba or Gabriel Traitor yeah he's a traitor he's a faithful to you he's a good traitor what a traitor to have what a recruitment so you said Gabriel or Saliba big one

1:01:36Romesh Ranganathan: I think this is you could make arguments either way. No, but they're not doing that. We're just saying, you've got to pick a team, you're the manager. I'm going to go Gabriel. You're going to go Gabriel. What are you going for? I would go Gabriel. You go Saliba. I'm going Sol Campbell and Saliba. So, left back, Ashley Cole. You can stop there. Exactly. Exactly. Ashley Cole or... I don't need to hear any other options. You've got Skel... Might it be Louis Skelly or... Calafuri. All of those... Hincapio, listen, I love him. Calafuri. Califuri? Yeah, I think Califuri's unbelievable. I think they're great players.

1:02:09Romesh Ranganathan: But Ashley Cole is the best. Elite. Wow. So you've gone full traitor. And you've gone with Ashley Cole. Listen, look, Ashley Cole, he doesn't know. He's not going to watch me on this. But... He will. Will he? Is he a fan of him? He loves him. He only chooses on Wednesdays, though, he said. So, go on. Well, I was going to say, I've called him a prick in the past. Yeah. On League of the Rain. I did say to him afterwards, the reason I said that to him, it's a compliment to him. You broke his heart. Yeah. Yeah. He is incredible. I've got no he's an unbelievable player Ashley Cole left back, now Tim you're coming in on this, midfield this is so hard, I'm going to give you some names here Vieira, Gilberto Silva Perez, Lundberg, Edu Ray Parler and then obviously the modern day, you've got Rice, Odegaard Zubamendi, Marino, Eze Norgard, Juan Airy we've gone a little bit too much so I'm going to pick you've got to pick one now who would be your guaranteed?

1:03:09You could obviously go with Rice and Vieira. Yeah, I'm going with Rice and Vieira.

1:03:13Romesh Ranganathan: Rice and Vieira, I think, are in. That's not a debate, really. And then one more. So we're going to play Bergkamp as a 10. Yeah. So would it be Bergkamp or would it be Odegaard? You've got to go Bergkamp. OK. You've got to go Bergkamp. That's a nice midfield. Do you think about that midfield? Yeah, yeah. Rice, Vieira, Bergkamp. Yeah. Are you happy with that? What would you go with, Tim? I'd go with both. All of those. Yeah. I mean, Dennis has to be in there. For me, he's one of the best players to ever see in the Premier League. So, three up from. Obviously, I'll throw some. You know the invincible team.

1:03:43Henri, Bergkamp, Canu, Reyes. But Henri and Bergkamp were obviously so key in that. And Perez. And then, obviously, now you've got Saka, Jokerez, Havertz, Martinelli, Trossard, Madueke, Jesus. I think this is all about the invincibles. I do

1:04:04Romesh Ranganathan: I think got to be amazing how poor they are I mean compared to the Invincible team the current side that's why the manager decides to play like he does the only one that could for me Tim I don't know if you agree would be Saka does Saka get into this team because it's definitely Henry Perez has to be in it Perez it was an honour to watch that guy play man like what a guy but yes Saka is a difficult one isn't it

1:04:37Romesh Ranganathan: I don't think he makes it in person I can't find room for him I would go Saka Henri and Perez that'd be my 4-3-3 I think Saka would get in my team so who would you go up front then? well we've gone Thierry obviously we're putting Dennis in midfield aren't you? Yeah. Oh, wait, okay. So Dennis is a 10. And I have to have Robert Perez in there. Yeah. So you go Perez. I agree with that. Yeah. Perez, Omri and Saka. Yeah. I'm not having Saka. Are you not having Saka? No, we're having Dennis in there. I think we're one midfield player, sure. Yeah, you can draft a midfield player in them. We might need to find another one.

1:05:24Who have we got there? Declan Rice and Patrick Vieira. Lundberg, you're a big fan of, wouldn't you?

1:05:29Romesh Ranganathan: Yeah. I am a bit... I'm also a big fan. Calvin Klein. Yeah. Bellingham's done it now, hasn't he? I know, they're all done it. Yeah. I think Saka makes that team then. You put Saka in them.

1:05:44You've got...

1:05:45Romesh Ranganathan: So, hold on. Who have we got left there? Well, you can have... If you're not going to put Bergkamp in the 10, you could have Bergkamp, Henri and Perez up front. Yeah. And you could put an extra midfield player in there. So you could go with Lundberg. you could go with Odegaard Not Gore-Cris Are you thinking about that? No That's a traitor move I want to see him be a success though You'll get to Champions League final Yeah Who are you going to get to take the winning penalty with all of these players here on the pitch? You just picked your best 11 Yeah

1:06:31Romesh Ranganathan: I'd get up and read to take the penalty I think Yeah, I think Tyrion, right Have we picked a team alright there? I don't know if we have It was a bit messy, wasn't it? It was a bit messy Are you sure? I'm not sure because Dennis was messing it up Yeah, so that's what Dennis has messed it up So you're 4-4-2 What's the best way to get the best players in this team? 4-4-2 We're going to pick 4-4 We're going to have a bit old school 4-4-2 So you've gone with David Rea, Timber, Sol Campbell, and Gabriel. Left back, Ashley Cole. In midfield. Declan Rice and Vieira in the centre. Saka on the right, and Perez on the left, and then Bergkamp and Henri up front.

1:07:20Romesh Ranganathan: What a team. That's a team. That's a team. How much would that be worth? when you think that how good that Invincibles team was and the players that you had I mean it was just incredible wasn't it and what what would Henri be worth now what would Bergkamp be worth now no price well Bergkamp you know you have to get him a train didn't you to the Champions League away that's the problem it's a big issue and who's going to be the manager in this team

1:07:50Romesh Ranganathan: I think currently you've got to go Wenger that's what I think do you disagree? no no I think I agree with what Tim says so you think if he wins the Champions League and another Premier League he will go above yeah can I just count because that's the big one it is the big one it is the big one but do you think that do you think that that overrules everything else that Wenger did at Arsenal no I think Wenger was good yeah no no I'm not saying too good yeah yeah in my eyes to be perfectly honest but he Anyone can win the FA Cup. You can win cups. The league, yeah, you've got to give them the credit for that.

1:08:27The Invincibles, of course you give them the credit. But to win the European Cup, the Champions League, I think it's what they want. It's what they're chasing. All the fans want that. And I think if he does that, and I think they're capable of doing it. They're capable of doing it because of the way he plays. If they went toe-to-toe with PSG and Barcelona and Bayern Munich, they'd get beat. But they won't. They won't. Because we looked at the forward line there. If you've got Gorkares and Havertz, I know he's kind of scored in a European Cup final, but you can't play toe-to-toe against those sides.

1:08:57If you sit back and you're nice and solid and they get something on the break or set-piece, they can beat any team.

1:09:02Romesh Ranganathan: Yeah, particularly PSG are playing this season. But the one thing I would say, just on all this Arsenal chat and how Arteta's playing the team, obviously I'm a blinkered Arsenal fan, right? And some of the criticism I sort of think, when Arsenal weren't winning the league, all everybody said was, when you stick it to Arsenal, they can't find a way to win, and it's their job to find a way to win. And like you just said, Tim, they found a way to win. They found a way. And then everybody went, oh, set-piece FC. Well, you go, well, that's what they've added. And listen, I know they've not been as prolific with the set-pieces this season, but still, they found a way, right?

1:09:40Romesh Ranganathan: They found a way. It's like you said, they'll look at a team and go, what is the way that we can beat this team? I don't think criticising Arsenal for finding a way to beat a team is a fair thing to do, to be honest with you. So I'm going to give you one player to sign now to turn you into Champions League winners. Who would that be? Current player, Jay. Striker? Yeah, a striker. Now, because it feels like Havertz has his moment. No, it's not been easy for Jokeres, but if you were to get a striker, a lot's been spoken about Alvarez at Atletico Madrid. Would that be one you'd revisit in January if you could?

1:10:17Romesh Ranganathan: So this is how I felt about Alvarez, right? And again, I've said to you that I've got older and so I'm more mature. When I sort of heard that Alvarez wasn't sure about coming, immediately I just thought we should stop going. I just think you want players to come to the club that really want to come to the club and believe in the project. And I know that sounds, I mean, I almost immediately regret saying project. But the point I'm trying to make is sometimes you hear about a manager gets on the phone to somebody or has a meeting with somebody and they go, I believe in what you're doing, let me come over.

1:10:47Romesh Ranganathan: Alvarez, look, Alvarez would be an unbelievable signing. I remember when Giocares first signed for Arsenal, do you remember, I don't even know if you guys were saying this at the time, but people were saying Arsenal don't know how to play with an out-and-out front man, right? Because they're so used to sort of tapping, you know, ticky-tacking it in or whatever you want to call it. And that was the reason that Giocares wasn't doing what he was doing. I don't think that's the case. I think that I actually honestly think that Guilherme has started to show signs of he's started to I do think he's started to improve but I think somebody like Alvarez elevates that team you know what I think I think you see it so many times with Arsenal they're moving in on goal and then they knock it out wide and they always do that and what you want is the defence to know that it could be an option for them to give them something extra to think about and I don't think currently we have that.

1:11:45Romesh Ranganathan: And so I think somebody like Alvarez gives you that. You take Harry Kane next year? Wow. Wow, that would be a traitor move. Yeah. I think you would... Obviously, it's never going to happen, but if that was an offer... Harry Kane is a... I mean, listen, I'm saying the obvious. A freak. He is, you know, hot take from Romesh on a Ballon d 'Or winner. But I just think that... How good is Harry? in your eyes, would you call him a prick? Would I call him a prick? I think, yeah, you probably would. I know him, you would. But I'd call him a really talented prick. I mean, he is just... I think if he...

1:12:26Romesh Ranganathan: You know, despite his Spurs connection, I love him, actually. I think not only is he prodigiously talented, what he does, he's everywhere. And he's doing everything. And he's looking... He's not just out and out for himself. is looking to facilitate and enable other players in the team. He's generous in his play. I don't really have a... I haven't got a bad word to say about him. I think I was worried that he... Not worried, but I thought maybe he won't get the Ballon d 'Or because he's not this type of flair player that they tend to go for. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I'm glad that he got it because it is...

1:13:03Romesh Ranganathan: You cannot doubt the level of ability he's got. Is he going to Arsenal, Jay? Will he go to Arsenal? That would be incredible. No, he's not. Why do we wait 10 minutes? Why do we wait 10 minutes? I know you love your kids, and I know you're a great dad. You really love your kids. That's very sweet. But would you swap one of them for Max Dallman? Yeah, I think so.

1:13:30Romesh Ranganathan: He's good, isn't he? Yeah, he's amazing. It was interesting that when you see a player like that, at that age, you obviously then become incredibly interested in how Arsenal are going to handle him and how Mikel Arteta is going to handle him. There's a lot being made of what Arteta was saying to him as he came off against Fleetwood. But, yeah, he's an amazing player. And then you start to get worried because you think, I used to be a teacher. I know what people of Max Dalman's age are like. And you sort of think, I don't even know. How do you even begin to process the kind of things that are being said about him, that the game time is getting?

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1:16:15Rom, I want to ask you about, this is a tough set because even being involved in football, working in it, playing, being a pundit for so long, this Man City situation that's arisen, and obviously Arsenal have probably suffered more than most because of it. How do you feel as an Arsenal fan about Man City? What do you think is going to happen to them?

1:16:35Romesh Ranganathan: I mean, to be honest with you, initially when it was like they'd been found guilty of these charges, your instant reaction is to celebrate and start giving crap to all your Man City supporting mates. Do you know what I mean? Do you know what I mean? No. I meant in theory too but look

1:17:03Romesh Ranganathan: I think it's horrendous obviously I'm saying obvious things here that's why I'm hesitating it's horrendous that this has happened to my mind I think it's I think it's a scandal how long they got away with it for and how long it's taken to process all this I think it actually is a bit of a blight on the Premier League, the fact that this has taken so long to sort out and to process and all of that. I feel sorry for City fans because, you know, they're not... You'll just turn up... And also, you sort of think about City... People think of Man City as this big monster. I think about the City fans that were supporting them when they weren't anywhere near this level.

1:17:45Romesh Ranganathan: They were happier then. And they've gone in week in, week out, when Man City weren't winning anything, right? And now you're enjoying your Man City steamrolling everybody, and then you find out that I do feel a bit of sympathy for them as well as finding it funny. But what I do have slight doubts about is, is this punishment... First of all, I'm going to tell you this now, no punishment they issue is going to be enough for some people. So you aren't going to get a punishment where everybody goes, great. nothing's going to be too much and nothing's going to be enough whatever it is I'm not using his analogy because you're on here but it's almost like do you banish them put them in League 2 then are we doing that to hurt in the Premier League but you have to do something the problem the Premier League have got is they've got two conflicting things here is that they need to reinstate the integrity or to help heal the damage to the integrity of the league, but at the same time, Man City are a great advert for the Premier League.

1:18:52Romesh Ranganathan: You don't want to see Haaland going. Yeah, exactly. So then you've got the Premier League dealing with this thing of, well, we've got to be seen to be punishing these guys. If we do put them in League Two, for example, that is a big loss for the Premier League. And so I don't know how you deal with that. I think they've got themselves into a right situation. You can't help but suspect that this is something that they knew was going on for longer than they've let on, and they've sort of thought, shit, they've been kicking the can down the road and saying, let's deal with this whenever we can deal with it.

1:19:23Romesh Ranganathan: Now they've got to deal with it. They're in a really difficult situation. I suspect what will happen is that the punishment will be softer than people are hoping. Would you like the trophies back? Would you like to... I just don't know who gives a shit about that now. The moment's gone, isn't it? It's gone. What are we going to do? We're going to get the bus out. You could do it last year. Did you go last year? No, because I was on the way back from the Champions League final, so I couldn't go. But I just, you know, that... But, you know, you think about the knock-on effects, the teams that were knocked out in cup competitions.

1:19:58Romesh Ranganathan: Six points, yeah. It's such... The ramifications are huge. But the Carabao Cup, when you go, oh, man, look how many Carabao Cups there were. Of course, because they could use their second string, which is really the advantage of their game. And also, you think about other clubs that would have really benefited from... I'm not talking about them going on to win it, but I'm talking about smaller clubs that would have benefited from a bit of a run or all of those sort of things. I don't even think you can begin to grasp what the fallout from all of this is. For all of these different teams and all of these different organisations, it's impossible to work out.

1:20:31Romesh Ranganathan: So, yeah, I don't think they can give an appropriate punishment. What would you be happy with yourself? I think they've got to go down, personally. I think that basically what you do is you drain the abscess, which is there's this thing that's happened. They go down. They'll come back up. And deduct them the points. Deduct them the points that leads to them relegated. Just for one year? Play this season out? I think, yes, play this season out. And then I think it's been delayed enough as it is just because they've figured it out now. I think you play this season out, and I think that question, Tim, is a tricky one, just for one year or longer.

1:21:18Romesh Ranganathan: Look, if they did it for two years, right, if it was for two years, everybody would go, holy shit, we've lost Man City for two years. Two years will go like that, and then they'll be better. You know what I mean? I think... And there's a part that might go, yeah, actually, for what we did and what we won, if you get a little slap on the wrist, it's worth it. Look how much success was. I agree. I think that you go, what you're doing then is you're rewarding that behaviour and arguably encouraging other... I don't know how many other clubs would think about doing that. And we all know that stuff goes on that doesn't...

1:21:48But I think that you need to...

1:21:52Romesh Ranganathan: Part of the purpose of a punishment is a deterrent, right? And the message needs to go out. This is for the Premier League. If you do that, you will be severely punished. And so if the punishment isn't severe enough, man, you go, well, the addition to our worldwide whatever, our profile, all of that, who gives a crap? So it has to be enough and I think the Premier League need it to be enough not just for the other teams that have been affected I think for the Premier League it has to be enough. This is, it's not a good look. Yeah.

1:22:32A big appointment today, Scott Parker, West Ham job that's a huge run for him Tim. I think it suits him, it really does. I think it's unfair that people criticise him that when he gets promotion, he's had three promotions now, and when he gets to the Premier League, the team gets relegated. I think he's had the best teams in the champ. I think he's going to one of the best teams in the championship now in West Ham. And if they get promoted, which I believe they will, only four points off of automatic, I think he'd get the funds and hopefully stay in the league. I think he's a really good fit. Ex-player there as well.

1:23:01When he won PFA Player of the Year when he was at West Ham, when they went down. He was good. Which is an amazing team, when you think about it. Yeah, he's all heart, gives everything. I agree with you. I think it's a bigger achievement not to get them up. They should be in that situation. They've got enough good players.

1:23:16Romesh Ranganathan: I think that's a great job. Do you know what's so funny? Not funny. It's not funny that West Ham got relegated. But Tom Davis is a massive West Ham fan. He was saying to me, he's loving this season. Because you're watching your team lose. And he goes, now, the way that West Ham... They play a different type of football. The games are different. The nature of it is different. You win more games. You win more games. He says, actually, if you're looking at it as a consumer product, as a West Ham fan, he's actually having a better time this year. Yeah. I think they are, you know, for Nuno, it just felt like even last year he was lucky to keep his job.

1:23:57But that Arsenal game last year, I bet you had your, that was a moment, wasn't it, when West Ham, when the goalkeeper come out, Ray, are they giving the free? Because I was doing that game with Ian Ryan and Roy Key, and we were like, what is it, a foul? Do you remember when he'd come out? I was in the cast. I remember we were talking about it afterwards, but that felt like one of those moments. But West Ham is too big a club to be in the Championship, and I've got no doubt Scott Parker will bring them up. It's a great appointment for them. It's a sensible appointment, and I think he'll do a really good job there.

1:24:28And then when he comes up, like you say, give him the funds. Then you can actually see whether he can be a Premier League manager or not. He knows what it takes to stay in the league. Who did he come up? Bournemouth, Burnley? Who else did he bring up? Fulham, three clubs. So he's got a great record. Yeah. He's getting that Sam Allardyce. I know. That's the problem. You know, you're always going as a rescue package, you know what I mean, to a team who needs to get promotion. I think he's capable of doing it. That's why they brought him in. Nuno, it's a strange one, Nuno, isn't he? Because he's had a good record of getting teams promoted.

1:24:53And he's done well when the Premier League was coming. But I spoke to some boys who was there at Tottenham when things weren't going too well. I'm not surprised, you know, when they hit a bad run. I'm not sure he's that man to galvanise them and turn it around. So that's why they pushed the button. It seems quick, you know, after this period of time. You know what is amazing, though, in football? You know, he's still within a day. You know, he said, oh, we'll start talking to the new manager. He is, like, he's been, as we say from the old, got to be careful using the N-word, but he's gone, isn't he?

1:25:22He's been murdered. And then they're bringing in Scott Parker so quickly. I mean, this tells you they are speaking behind the scenes. That's what happens, Jay. I just think, you know, in football it drives me mad when they go, you know, it's the same with Ashley Cole we spoke about when we went and met Mourinho, didn't he? We should just be transparent in football. Managers, if you're going to go to a club and you want to spend£100 million on a player, do you not want to look them in the eye and say, I like you, you're a good player, you want to meet them? Do you want to find out about their personality?

1:25:49Because you're not just buying the player, you're buying the person. I think we should just be a bit more honest. Yeah, I met him, I liked him, that's why I signed him. Yeah, of course. Ridiculous. I did that at Villa. I think it was in Roy Keane's book. He said that his brother told him that I was there for two of the home games previous to Paul Lambert getting the sacked. I was positioning myself. Roy used that wording for the job. I already knew I was getting a job. Really? So you were right? He was absolutely spot on. But that's the nature of it. Roy knows that. He's had managers jobs. But that is it, Jay.

1:26:19That is football. Scott would have known two weeks ago that he's getting lined up for this job. And he's just decided to fly in yesterday. I don't know where he's flying in from. Where's he flying in? He lives in Portugal. Does he live there? He lives in Portugal. Well, he's moved there. I think so. Anyway, we'll keep that one quiet. LAUGHTER Don't tell anyone. Romes, thank you for coming on, mate. You have been a fantastic... And I always knew you as a faithful.

1:26:42Romesh Ranganathan: Yeah, no, listen, it's absolutely my pleasure. And I'm going to be honest with you, against all odds, you're actually good at this, man. Thanks. Kieran, what do you think? How's he been? He's been really good. Yeah, hasn't he? You can come back if you want. No, I'm all right. I was good. I said to him, Rom, I said, you're going to come on the show. I spoke to him on Monday. I said, can you come on? He sort of went, yeah. I think a bit I remember when I come on your podcast and he went you had nowhere to go no no no no let me be well go on he cancelled on us as well so you cancels on us speak to football but what happened was so Jamie said he phoned me up on it was Monday Monday and he said congratulations he said congratulations yeah and then you get to the real point of the call can I come on this right then he says to me when can you come on and I said well yeah send me some dates and I'll come on Obviously, I will...

1:27:33Romesh Ranganathan: You know, Jamie's a really good mate, so if he asks me to come on something, I'll come on it. And then he said, this Wednesday, and immediately that screams last-minute dropout to me. No, there was no dropout. You've had some other guest lined up. No. I promise. Well, obviously you're going to say that to me. Well, to be fair, you cancelled it as soon as we ended up getting Jack Wilsham. Oh, so it worked out right then. Yeah, exactly. But, you know, I looked after you. When I said to you today, Kean, I said, Romesh, I forgot to get him a car. But you know what? You drove yourself, didn't you? No, I got a car.

1:28:00Romesh Ranganathan: Oh, did you? Yeah, yeah, yeah. OK, I'll get the expense. We should cover that. That's all right, I don't worry. I've got to do a load of other shit anyway. Oh, yeah? Yeah. But this is the best stuff you've done though, right? Oh, mate, this is like, genuinely, you know, I've done comedy for like, as you know, 15 years. Yeah. This has been the one that's been... This is what's made it all make sense. Overlap Daily was sure we'd have read that.

1:28:32This has been a Global and the Overlap production.

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